Police hunt Manchester bomber's network, angered by U.S. leaks

UK politicians have failed in their basic duty of care to protect the people of Britain from terrorist atrocities planned and carried out in the name of Islam .

Governments past and present have lacked the political will, courage, to engage with Muslim communities, may I suggest to confront the consequences right in front of them.

To confront religious intolerance, segregation both in education and society in general. Integration, or the lack of it, at the very least in the multicultural sense has lead to racial/cultural intolerance to the very principals Great  Britain beliefs and values are founded and on.

Reports although unconfirmed by government , suggest up to 20,000 Jihadists in various stages of radicalization could be active and hiding within communities in UK towns and cities. The honesty to admit that leaks from US intelligence sources, allege a level of prior knowledge of imminent danger. Strategies failed to be implemented, alerts failed to be acted upon. Only the innocent have been the victims here. Politicians for all parties are quick to pounce on the sound bite and the cliché from the safety  of round the clock protection.  

Government the political establishment must be head accountable.

"Rudd also scolded U.S. officials for leaking details about the investigation into the Manchester attack before British authorities were ready to go public. The New York Times later published detailed photographs of the suspected remnants of the bomb."

Haven't the British learned yet that Donald Trump isn't running a government. He's running a circus.

Looks like the UK is under threat from not just extremists but the US. Sad.

bTW, Libya has two capitals. One for the west and one for Libyans.

if Blair didn't invade and decimate Iraq, this wouldn't be happening. it is all his fault. i would love to hear his confessions in his local church..

To confront religious intolerance, segregation both in education and society in general

What does 'confront' mean? To take the example of education, do you mean the abolition of faith schools? The UK segregates children by religion - even to the point of keeping different sects of the same religion away from each other. I went to an all-boys Catholic school where one teacher told us that he'll not tolerate any 'proddie' Christmas carols ( I didn't bother then and haven't bothered since to find out what they are ). Try telling leading Anglicans, Catholics or Jews along with Muslims that faith schools should be abolished.

Talk about segregation in education and you'll find plenty of followers of other faiths are big fans of it.

On a related point, wasn't it the Archbishop of Canterbury who spoke out in favour of Sharia courts?

@itsonlyrocknroll

You are absolutely correct. Everything you say is true and none of it is even slightly controversial. The fact that anyone woud give your comment a down vote shows just how twisted and unprepared to confront reality our society has become.

As much as I dislike Trump and see him unfit, he is not responsible for leaks. The leaks are being published by the NY Times, etc. (not bastions of conservatism or right wingers), even after the authorities in the UK asked the information to be withheld. It becomes silly when everything is blamed on Trump and detracts from the real issues he has (and there are plenty). The authorities in the UK do in fact have every right to be angry at whoever is leaking the information.

Now it is reported both the father and the brother of the perpetrator have terrorist links. Although the coalition was wrong for entering Iraq after 9/11 (Saddam Hussein is the polar opposite of Osama bin Laden) the blame for murdering children does not lie with Blair, etc. (although they did in fact fan the flames). The blame lies in the sick person that perpetrated the murder/slaughter of children. Yes, there are many peaceful Muslims (I have friends that are Muslim that I could never imagining doing something like this) but when these attacks in Europe repeatedly come from radicalized Muslims someone needs to ask the hard question as to what should be done to put an end to this. There seems to be a sect of this religion that has not progressed past into the 21st Century.

On a related point, wasn't it the Archbishop of Canterbury who spoke out in favour of Sharia courts?

Ok, that's one nut jobs opinion and?

That's as relevant to his competence as a leader as the amount of peas on his dinner plate. What an abject response from you.

No, I'm just stating the fact he has cash, so he'lol always have the last laugh and as for being a good leader, that's subjective.

"I spoke to [Salman Abedi] about five days ago ... there was nothing wrong, everything was normal," Ramadan Abedi told Reuters, moments before he was arrested.

if a father doesn't know what his son is doing then with the growing propensity of young Muslims radicalising then surely that responsibility has to be borne elsewhere....

@Jim

Try again, please.

The bigger question is, where do we go from here and what and how will the Brits deal and minimize if not curtail the problem and spread of radical jihadism. Until the people wake up and take a proactive and serious approach to this problem, it'll only worsen.

On a related point, wasn't it the Archbishop of Canterbury who spoke out in favour of Sharia courts?

Ok, that's one nut jobs opinion and?

That 'nut job' happened to be the leader of the Anglican Church, the established Church of England, with members numbering in the millions. This isn't some minor, crackpot snake-handling communion of the lunatic fringe. When a religious leader of an enormous institution like this speaks out in favour of abominations like Sharia courts, it tells us that there are influential people who see no problem with creating divided societies. This view is also shared by some lawmakers.

That's what I'm getting at.

As much as I dislike Trump and see him unfit he is not responsible for the leaks. The leaks are being published by the NY times etc.

True, but it seems US intelligence are the ones who leaked the info/photos to us media, something they should never have done. Then the NY times or any media have editorial decisions to make and unfortunately most if not all of them would publish anything that will bring $ to their organisation, the creepier the better.

US intelligence or anyone who leaked these pics were imo both extremely unprofessional and morally wrong. As for media publishing it, they simply lack morals and decency but nothing new here I guess.' What? A pic of bloodied dead bodies, nails and bolts? Front page, please!'

That 'nut job' happened to be the leader of the Anglican Church, the established Church of England, with members numbering in the millions. This isn't some minor, crackpot snake-handling communion of the lunatic fringe.

Apparently is, if he thinks Sharia should be implemented as a guiding rule to the Islamic faith.

When a religious leader of an enormous institution like this speaks out in favour of abominations like Sharia courts, it tells us that there are influential people who see no problem with creating divided societies. This view is also shared by some lawmakers. 

That's what I'm getting at.

I get your point, but it's still relatively small when you compare it to the millions that excoriate Sharia laws.

@goldorak - I agree with your post and you raise some very good points. It would be interesting to find out specifically who leaked the information. CIA working in the Embassy in the UK? Regardless it seems the authorities in the UK are putting together the missing links and will probably get to the bottom of this.

True, but it seems US intelligence are the ones who leaked the info/photos to us media, something they should never have done. Then the NY times or any media have editorial decisions to make and unfortunately most if not all of them would publish anything that will bring $ to their organisation, the creepier the better.

US intelligence or anyone who leaked these pics were imo both extremely unprofessional and morally wrong. As for media publishing it, they simply lack morals and decency but nothing new here I guess.' What? A pic of bloodied dead bodies, nails and bolts? Front page, please!'

100% Agree

Archbishop of Canterbury who spoke out in favour of Sharia courts?

Indeed. Rowan Williams (back in 2008) was in favour of "aspects" of Sharia Law. This was roundly seen as a duff idea and Baroness Warsi (prominent Tory MP and Muslim) spoke out against the former Archbishop's musings.

if Blair didn't invade and decimate Iraq, this wouldn't be happening. it is all his fault.

You don't think an ideology that teaches its followers to 'strike terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve' would have come for us by now even if Iraq hadn't been invaded? What about 9/11, the first WTC bombing, and many other Islamic terror attacks pre-Iraq?

What about 9/11

Carried out mostly by Saudi Arabians. Masterminded by Saudi Arabian Osama Bin Laden. To which the response was to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

Bin Laden did fight with the Mujahadeen against the previous Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The fighters were armed, funded and trained by the CIA.

Why did they do this? Because it was a Soviet incursion. Which meant that the ideology of communism had to be halted.

Authorities in Britain have become increasingly angered by U.S. leaks from the investigation, including the bomber's name on Tuesday and the photos of blood-stained fragments from the bomb on Wednesday.

US intelligence leaks.....Yeah, many were just honky-dory with US intelligence leaks until somebody gets hurt.

US intelligence and media....same thing these days. Just wondering if the MSM are going to criticize the MSM for publishing the info............are those crickets I hear?

British Ambassador to the US to the NY Times: "What the HELL are you blokes doing!?"

NYTimes: "OOOPS, sorry bout-dat. We're just so used to publishing Trump leaks".

if Blair didn't invade and decimate Iraq, this wouldn't be happening. it is all his fault. i would love to hear his confessions in his local church

I gave up my membership of the Labour Party in disgust after the Iraq War and I'd like to see Blair and Bush tried for war crimes.

However, the problem of Jihadism is a worldwide phenomenon. Can it all be blamed on and dated from the 2003 Iraq invasion? Are Muslims the only group to have suffered at the hands of others?

Carried out mostly by Saudi Arabians. Masterminded by Saudi Arabian Osama Bin Laden. To which the response was to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

There was a van bombing in the Trade Center basement during the Clinton presidency. And about 9/11. Anyone care to explain building 7?

Are Muslims the only group to have suffered at the hands of others?

Of course not. But the majority of people killed by ISIS et al have been Muslims.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration-visas-refugees-syria-iraq-terrorism-isis-attacks-most-victims-a7550936.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/baghdad-bombing-attack-isis-islamic-state-iraq-ramadan-shia-most-victims-muslims-killed-a7120086.html

Yeah, the media is so used to publishing leaks to hurt Trump that they forgot to check this time if this was something that would actually hurt Trump. Oops, they will get him next time.

@Toasted Heretic

Even if you think that the Iraq invaision was the worst crime in the history of the world, when is the licence to terrorise and kill innocent people in the west ever going to expire? When does Iraq or CIA support for the Mujahahadeen ever stop being an excuse in your eyes?

Even if you think that the Iraq invaision was the worst crime in the history of the world,

Nope. It's not a competition. Mankind has been killing its own since records began.

when is the licence to terrorise and kill innocent people in the west ever going to expire?

Dunno, when is the license to terrorise and kill innocent people in the Middle East going to expire? Or inncoents in Indonesia? Or anywhere that extremism or the arms trade rears its ugly head?

When does Iraq or CIA support for the Mujahahadeen ever stop being an excuse in your eyes?

Hmm. Did I say it's an excuse? It's a factor. When is 9/11 going to ever stop being an excuse for people to blame all Muslims for terror?

I gave up my membership of the Labour Party in disgust after the Iraq War and I'd like to see Blair and Bush tried for war crimes.

However, the problem of Jihadism is a worldwide phenomenon. Can it all be blamed on and dated from the 2003 Iraq invasion? Are Muslims the only group to have suffered at the hands of others?

I understand what you're saying but I'd hope you've maintained some disgust over the years since they left office. Last year alone, Obama dropped over 26,000 bombs on seven nations:

Syria 12,192

Iraq 12,095

Afghanistan 1,337

Libya 496

Yemen 35

Somalia 14

Pakistan 3

In fact, Nobel Barry authorized 10 times as many drone strikes as his half-witted predecessor and spent his entire 8 years in office at war, longer than any president in history. I imagine you'd agree that these bombs haven't improved the situation in any of these nations and that, in fact, they do more harm than good. Drone bomb my daughter's wedding party and you're going to see an instantly radicalized gaijin bent on vengeance with nothing to lose.

I get that Europe is grappling with some serious challenges and if I lived there I'd probably be in favor of stricter curbs on immigration, more surveillance, less tolerance for extremist clerics--the entire gamut. But while the actions of these monsters cannot be laid at the feet of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, neither did the seething hatred of the Muslim world for the West begin or end with that invasion.

when is the license to terrorise and kill innocent people in the Middle East going to expire?

You just told us that majority of people killed by ISIS have been Muslims. Are you suggesting the west should just sit back and do nothing in the Middle East? History shows us that the Muslim world is prepared to blame the West for both intervention (such as Afghanistan and Iraq) and non-intervention (such as initially in Kosovo and now in Syria, or over the long term in the Palestinian issue). The Muslim world needs to take responsibility for the sectarian and extremist mess it has created for itself. Its not the fault of the West or the Jews or the CIA.

Of course not. But the majority of people killed by ISIS et al have been Muslims.

The next question would be if other groups have been treated disgracefully, the Tibetans are a good example, why are violent reprisals so common from members of the Islamic faith but nowhere near as prevalent from other groups?

A follow-up question could be why in many Muslim majority countries, including more 'progressive' countries like Turkey, is there a terrifyingly high sympathy for suicide attacks against non-combatants?

We can talk about ill-treatment all day but these seem to be questions often avoided.

The Muslim world needs to take responsibility

Particularly ill thought out statement. What is this homogenous Muslim world you speak of?

Its not the fault of the West or the Jews or the CIA.

It's never is. Hang on, what's this about the Jews? More homogenous one religion covers all individuals stuff?

Hi Jimizo, Closed communities that fester an extremist form of Islamism are incompatible to Great Britain core beliefs, culture, customs and values. I believe that this needs to be accepted, understood.

The question is how far and how soon Great Britain as a nation confronts this fact. Freedom, gender equality, even western style parliamentary led democratic Government seems unable to exist or occupy the same space as Islamic fundamentalism.

Moderate British Muslims have been able to tolerate cultural difference and integrate, diversify. Some younger Muslims have succumbed to the doctrine of extreme Islamic militancy.

I gave been brought up in the Roman Catholic communion, staunchly, refraining through choice close intimacy until marriage. However my beliefs, faith and religious self  identity is a personal matter that I have never seen fit to lecture or burden my colleges, family or friends. This tolerant approach cannot be said of other faiths and cultures where intolerance to western cultures has allowed resentment to fester, leading to hostility and ultimately segregation and hatred.  

M3 makes a point about confronting reality, I believe that point has been reached. Humbly, UK political leadership have failed the people, putting careers before convictions, not having the courage and honesty to follow up on taking the difficult decisions.

@itsonlyrockandroll

On the education question, you talked about segregation in education and yet you didn't mention the key issue of faith schools. Are you in favour of segregation based on religion? In my opinion, segregating children in this way discourages integration and by its very existence creates an idea of the other. The blather I hear about not teaching exclusivity doesn't wash - if you don't like the idea of exclusivity, why do you need to segregate in the first place?

Given the more and more diverse nature of the UK population and the terrorist threats we face, I don't think segregating our children is advisable.

The family were given shelter in Britain when they fled from Gaddafi and were given housing and benefits. Their sons were educated at public schools at cost to the taxpayer and this is their way of saying thanks.

I think this sums up the frustration and anger a lot of people feel. If people who have been treated well can become child murderers so readily, then there isn't much hope of stopping this kind of thing. We can talk all day about addressing Muslim grievances / deporting the lot of 'em, or intervening in the Middle East / pulling everything we have out of there,. It feels like this sort of thing is just going to continue regardless. The saddest part is there will be people in the Middle East, in Europe, in Manchester who probably cheered when they heard this news. How the hell do you stop it?

Hi Jimizo, Honesty sorry, I avoided to your question. I do not feel faith schools policy of exclusion is justified.

My opinions around social mobility and inclusion are key to raising standards. Any admission policy that divides students into what could be construed as filtering out potential winners and rejecting so called losers I frankly abhor.  High performing schools cream off successes before the starting gun of UK ghastly lottery of a school and education system has even begun.

Faith Schools just add to the problem, however if all schools irrespective of any religious selection process where compelled to admit children even if those families were agnostic could be the basis for a compromise. The UK school system is at breaking point. The successes that pass entrance tests, I use that term because a increasing minority of parents can afford prep school and private tutoring where the vast majority cannot.

Muslim community schools are another issue altogether. Some have been at the forefront of gender discriminatory practices that fail to provide even the basic national curriculum. This and the instances of schools run on strict Islamic principles is where confrontation to bring about change has to begin. However the first step in breaking through the entrenched mindset of these closed communities.

Powerful points Clippety. You stop it by taking down the MSM. They are the perverse controllers of the never ending propaganda supporting the DEM/REP divisive scam, that somehow makes it OK to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia, yet keeps their killing fields in Yemen out of the MSM. GIVES weapons to Israel, yet keeps their oppression on the Palestinians out of the MSM. I could go on but i'm getting angry and depressed.

The leaks are being published by the NY Times, etc. (not bastions of conservatism or right wingers), even after the authorities in the UK asked the information to be withheld.

The NY Times reports facts. Bastions of conservatism and right wingers are not known for facts, only alternative facts and feelings.

The source would be the real story because the leaks are coming from or authorized by Trump.

True, but it seems US intelligence are the ones who leaked the info/photos to us media.

"It seems". Nice spin since U.S. intelligence is currently not dancing to Trump's tune.

U.S. Intelligence agencies will not want to give up information about an ongoing terrorist investigation. It hurts them, the U.S., and allies. You are mistaking a professional organization with the likes of Trump's.

On the other hand, you have a U.S. President willing to disclose classified information to an adverse country and provided by a foreign ally to make himself look good. This same U.S. President is willing to do anything to include lying and having others lie to defend him or defend his position.

The obvious conclusion is that the leaks are coming from Trump.

More to the point, I hope Manchester will make progress in the investigation. My heart goes out to the victims.

Jimizo - throw more weapons in the region and let the Saudis take on ISIS like they should. As long as they're all kept in the region, its all good.

@Fizzbit, appreciate your attempt to make sense of the madness in the world today. But it has to be more complicated than the bubble of US media & politics. That can't be the reason why great swathes of countries & people have such hatred for the west & our way of life, and are willing to kill and be killed for it.

Jimizo - throw more weapons in the region and let the Saudis take on ISIS like they should. As long as they're all kept in the region, its all good.

How about the Saudis funding the spread of murderous religious filth across the planet? Trump didn't have the guts to confront this.

Cuck

The Saudis could have dressed Trump up in leather and a gimp mask while whipping him at the lectern and it would have been almost indistinguishable from what actually happened.

Pathetic.

Oh, yes his token travel ban on countries other than the rotten core of this problem. Soooo tough.

Jimizo - the travel moratorium isn't perfect, but its a start. Trump is one of the few politicians who at least realizes we are at war.

Jimizo - the travel moratorium isn't perfect, but its a start. Trump is one of the few politicians who at least realizes we are at war.

The Saudis, the main suppliers of the propaganda, funding as well as some foot soldiers and generals in this 'war', clearly don't view Trump as a man who's declared war.

I've never seen a rightist virtue signaler wilt so quickly. Mind you, it is hot over there.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40053376/manchester-attack-question-time-debates-didsbury-mosque-leaflet

What sense of community togetherness is there, when the Muslim Community within the British Population mostly isolates itself together, rather than integrates, and needs to have their own Schools, Laws and Police ? Then in the above question time, one Audience member claims to have been given an anti-British document within the same Mosque that the Bomber & his Father frequented, yet Silence. The trouble now in the UK, is that you can't speak your mind freely without being accused of being Racist and arrested by the UK Police !

@zichi

Sure, there are International communities within London that have been there for a very long time - each has it's own little area. However something has changed of late to disrupt this coexistence. I for one, noticed that there's a lot more Mosques around the place. The UK has religious freedoms, though when those places of "Religion" are foregrounds for the extremists to promote their ideology they should be shut down - i.e. the Didsbury Mosque should be closed down. This should not go against any Religious rights, as Muslims don't need a dedicated mosque to practice their religion. However if their place of worship is attracting the wrong people, and if they cant control that themselves - then they should be closed down. Perhaps after that happens a couple of times, there may be some motivation to look towards themselves, and not simply have a tea & biscuit open day on Sundays and thereafter call themselves integrated, and multi-cultural.

Being British from London and with a Mother from a Muslim country who integrated and married an Englishman, I am probably qualified to put this in perspective. The issue is twofold:-

The level of racism in the UK, accelerated by the likes of Nigel Farage, UKIP, the Tory establishment, and Britain First, has completely divided the country in terms of being white or muslim. So Muslim youth stick to their own groups and do not feel very British when surrounded by such racism. Disenfranchised Muslim youth who do not see any future in Britain are easy prey for radicalisation. They align themselves closer to Iraqis, Syrians, and Libyans who they see being bombed by America and Europe.

Secondly, certain communities, Pakistani, Bengali, even some Indian, have totally failed/ made any effort to, integrate into becoming truly British. They built their own mosques and stayed within their own communities and only married into their own culture. For decades they have abused the British passport and benefit system by bringing wives/ husbands over from their mother countries. Their parents refused them to marry anyone British. Because of this, mass immigration in the UK has been a disaster, and my own Mother was an immigrant from a Muslim country (although my Mother did totally integrate and married an Englishman).

Radicalised British muslims never felt any allegiance to Britain, thanks to British racism and thanks to their own parents.