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Pro-Europe vote fragments but limits nationalist gains in EU election

42 Comments
By Alastair Macdonald and Jan Strupczewski

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42 Comments
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It's up to the centrists to end their ties with the Davos divas, to actually arrest bankers when they conspire to commit global fraud in the trillions of dollars, and to manage and control their national borders.

Otherwise, hello, extremism!

5 ( +8 / -3 )

I think people know what the values and culture of my home county of the USA are.

Um, said 'values and culture' only exist in your head. They are not declared anywhere, and therefore every American's values and culture for the country are equally valid. And I guarantee that some of their values and culture conflict with yours. Yet they are just as American as you - children of immigrants, born in the nation, with American citizenship. What makes your opinion on culture and values have more relevance than theirs?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The raise of nationalism in Europe is caused by two things: 1 - socialism. 2 - socialists.

History shows time and time again that the far right win elections through the creation of power vacuums left by the failure of centrists to materially deliver for working class people during periods of economic stagnation.

It happened in the 1930s and its happening now right across Europe as we speak, but let's blame socialists just like last time!

4 ( +12 / -8 )

EU is based on a difficult concept. Each country has its own government at the same time they have another government above them they have to obey. This does not work.

Other than the fact that it is the structure currently being used, in the real world, every day, keeping these countries rolling along, it "does not work".

Um....

4 ( +7 / -3 )

The biggest losers: the centrist (the center-left socialist S&D, the center-right conservative EPP) parties that dominated Europe

The biggest winners: the Green Parties (the environment and climate change seems to be priority in many Europeans' minds) and a little bit the far-right parties (their gains weren't as high as predicted)

But tensions among nationalists, who also include the Polish and Hungarian ruling parties and the new Brexit Party of British campaigner Nigel Farage, have limited their impact on policy.

Because, if ya break it down to the core, the thing that defines nationalists is also the very thing that separates them - nationalists believe it's every country for themselves

("Patriotism is loving one's country; Nationalism is hating everyone else's")

Example: Italy wants other countries to help take more immigrants off their land - but why would Polish or Hungarian nationalists want to help Italy? Their countries for themselves first, before Italy. So Italian nationalists are screwed

That's why nationalists from different countries would ultimately be at odds with each other - they wouldn't want to give in to other countries' nationalists

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Because each country has basic values and culture that it was founded upon. It’s why that group of people decided to live in that particular place together. We have the Declaration of Independence and a Constitution that define us. As do most other countries.

Ok, and what specifically are these 'values' and 'cultures' that you state are laid about by the constitution and declaration of independence, that are not being valued by the boogieman you are criticizing?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Labelling these partys "populist" misses the point. THey are offerring common sense as an alternative to the leftist idiocy.

I admire your diligence in reading about the policies of these various parties.

You’d be surprised at how many people just hear about a trend they like and call it common sense without having a clue what these parties are offering aside from what they read in short articles.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Kestrel

Just to ask, what do you think of the policies of Farage’s Brexit Party aside from a hard Brexit?

Do you think they are common sense policies?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Socialists are the first to be imprisoned and harmed when a socialist govt takes over. You might want to practice what you preach and read up on some history.

I think current affairs is more pertinent to this discussion, and I’m sure you’ve done your due diligence on the ‘idiocy’ of the left wing parties running in these elections as you did for the ‘sensible’ right.

No opinion on the ‘sensible’ policies ( note the plural ) of Farage’s Brexit Party?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Actually, Socialists are the first to be imprisoned and harmed when a socialist govt takes over. You might want to practice what you preach and read up on some history.

Gas lighting won't verify your argument.

Try harder.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Yeah it works perfectly

Um, no one has claimed it works perfectly.

All you hatred signallers do this all the the time. You pick an extreme, then criticize that it doesn't meet that extreme.

You know who works in extremes? Extremists. AKA Hatred Signallers, or Social Hatred Warriors.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Maybe instead of studying history in school, which in my opinion only causes nationalism, kids should be studying economics instead, so they don't get fooled by illiterates.

Maybe if someone studied history, they would understand that socialism does not cause racism and populism. Socialists are usually the first to be imprisoned and harmed when the far right rises.

Keep fiction off the internet.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I think people know what the values and culture of my home county of the USA are.

Oh it's one of those is it?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I don't know what "centrists" are you talking about. Europe have never been ruled by "centrists".

Merkel and Macron are as centre as it gets. The far right cannot deliver, and the much vaunted wave of nationalism is, thankfully, more of a dribble.

Le Pen and her fellow travellers will be found out, pretty soon.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The negative affects of social disruption and terrorist attacks would have played a major part in this result.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

My country has a set of values and cultural norms. If you want to live in my country, that means you accept those and try to abide by those. Not trying to recreate your country inside mine.

You'll have to be more specific about which values and cultural norms you're referring to.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

"addressing difficult situations". - more like creating messes.

Sometimes messy situations make a mess when they are cleaned up, before everything gets clean. Better than the 'just kill them all' attitude the pubs bring to the table.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Gas lighting won't verify your argument.

Try harder.

Jimizo is actually correct. You should read the Gulag Archipelago.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Party like it's 1939 Europeans. See what a great time your ancestors had.

Maybe you mean we’ll but this is just a ridiculous comment.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

The traditional Social Democrats, Centre Right have lost ground.

The Centralist Liberal, Green, and Nationalists are in the ascendancy. The new fragmented political make-up of the European Parliament will have repercussions when negotiations begin on the EU Commissions structure. Senior post including Presidencies, commissioners, the legislative council will be challenging.

Without any doubt the results of the UK European Elections, and how the Eurosceptic block of nationalists MEPs build a policy strategy, particularly on European Parliamentary Committees could bring the EU block future political and economic agenda into conflict especially areas of budgetary control....

EU election results 2019: across Europe........

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2019/may/26/eu-election-results-2019-across-europe

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's very sad to see the far right rise in France. This was unthinkable 15 years ago.

It was very thinkable. Jean-Marie Le Pen won 16.8% in the first round of voting in the 2002 presidential election. That's 17 years ago.

Le Pen and the National Front were already a rising force in the 1980s. The National Front won 9.65% of the vote and 35 seats in the 1986 legislative election; Le Pen won 14.4% of the vote in the 1988 presidential election, and 15% in 1995.

People have been concerned about the National Front for as long as I can remember.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The young voters who, for a change, turned out and voted, mostly for the Green parties, may have kept Europe together

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Toasted Heretic

Merkel and her government is conservative, and that's why Germany was the only economically stable country in Europe for decades. They didn't even had a minimum wage until 2015. However in recent years, they have adopted some socialist policies, like the minimum wage law, which their business association demanded be removed for immigrants. However, even in Germany, there is a double standards in law enforcement.

Macron is largely a socialist and a populist. He did try to reform the French labor market to allow more freedom and flexibility, but as soon as the people started protesting, he back tracked. And during the big protests, he raised the minimum wage, which will hurt exactly the people who were protesting. He is too weak and populist to reform the French economy and their labor market. He also pushed for so many more taxes, and other regulations. That's not what a conservative would do.

Unfortunately, it is easier to fool people than educate them.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

EU is based on a difficult concept. Each country has its own government at the same time they have another government above them they have to obey. This does not work.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Because, if ya break it down to the core, the thing that defines nationalists is also the very thing that separates them - nationalists believe it's every country for themselves. ("Patriotism is loving one's country; Nationalism is hating everyone else's")

Am not sure about that tbh. I think euro nationalists (and non-nationalists) do like/respect each other.

Reckon most euros -at least the ones i know- love/loved the idea of 'real' (as in 'ethnic') Dutch, German, Swedish, French, Italian, Swiss, Eastern euro (and even little englanders ;) ppl being able to freely come to their country and live/work/contribute for as long as they want. Thing is, for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, they're not too keen on extending the same welcome to migrants from these countries though. Probably think that all other euro countries -and theirs- are a mess & that they have enough on their plate already.

So what do these results tell us? Imo, "we euros are not anti-europe per se, we just don't like 'this' EU." Most/many ppl probably want less globalism -they're tired of the 9-5 rat race- a 'greener' lifestyle and to retain/protect their identity (national/regional/local), cultures, languages and freedoms that make them who they are.

Re immigration related issues, reckon most ppl know/think it's probably too late.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Yeah it works perfectly- except when country A is full of virtue signallers who let in anyone and everyone to the Union who then have unfettered access to country B.

I can see where country B would like to control who enters their country and who they will ultimately have to provide taxpayer funded resources to.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

Another word is assimilation. My country has a set of values and cultural norms. If you want to live in my country, that means you accept those and try to abide by those. Not trying to recreate your country inside mine.

If that’s what you want, stay in your own country or go to one that more closely matches your own values. It’s all just economic migration that’s the problem with it all.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

Labelling these partys "populist" misses the point. THey are offerring common sense as an alternative to the leftist idiocy.

No, the right-wing responses to everything are steeped in fear, and their reactions match. They are only common-sense if you are a slave to your fear, and prioritize removing fear over the solving of issues. What you call 'leftist idocy', we call not being scared children, and addressing difficult situations.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Nice smile there.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

It's very sad to see the far right rise in France. This was unthinkable 15 years ago. The anti-immigration paranoia plus the anti-poor policies of the past four administration are causing that. Too bad people vote for an even worse alternative.

At least, the Greens getting more seats is a good news and show that the environment is a top priority for a lot of people.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Party like it's 1939 Europeans. See what a great time your ancestors had.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Great. Now the right are trying to tell us who is or isn't allowed to coin a new phrase.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

I always liked Marine Le Pen, I hope she will soon surpass Macron, who is so hated by the French.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

History shows time and time again that the far right win elections through the creation of power vacuums left by the failure of centrists to materially deliver for working class people during periods of economic stagnation.

Correction:

...vacuums left by the failure of socialists to materially deliver for working class people during periods of economic stagnation.. caused by the previous socialists.

I don't know what "centrists" are you talking about. Europe have never been ruled by "centrists".

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Labelling these partys "populist" misses the point. THey are offerring common sense as an alternative to the leftist idiocy.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Because each country has basic values and culture that it was founded upon. It’s why that group of people decided to live in that particular place together. We have the Declaration of Independence and a Constitution that define us. As do most other countries.

Liberals don’t get that. They think anyone can just get things “their way” wherever they live. I bet you think Japan has certain values and culture to be followed. Why not any other country?

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

@plasticmonkey, have you figured it out yet?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

@Plasticmonkey,

Use a little imagination.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

I think people know what the values and culture of my home county of the USA are.

if you don’t want to assimilate into our culture go somewhere else. I know the Trump economy is on fire but we need more then just people who want jobs to make money to send back to people at “home”.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

ToastedHeretic,

Actually, Socialists are the first to be imprisoned and harmed when a socialist govt takes over. You might want to practice what you preach and read up on some history.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

@Strangerland,

"addressing difficult situations". - more like creating messes.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

The raise of nationalism in Europe is caused by two things: 1 - socialism. 2 - socialists.

1 - For the past decade or so these countries have been run by socialists who have slowly dissipated the wealth created during their "golden years" after WW2. All manufacturing left, businesses aren't hiring as much, wages aren't growing, standard of living is declining. Bad future prospects. The bad economic conditions causes anger and nostalgia in people raised during the "golden years". And since they don't understand what happened, where did all the wealth go, they turn over to the most visible and easy scapegoat - immigrants, which lead to the second point.

2 - socialists. For all the Americans here, imagine the following situation. African American commits a crime, police come, but instead of arresting him and serving justice for all, they let him go out of fear of being seen as "racist". What do you think are going to be consequences of this? One is - the entire group will get the blame because of one bad apple. And second - more bad apples will get incentivized to commit crime knowing they are above the law.

Same thing is happening in Europe with many non-European immigrants. Police in many countries, including Germany, France, Belgium, Sweden and so on are told NOT to arrest people from certain groups. This leads to anger among the native population. This coupled with bad policies caused by (1) that discourage immigrants from working, and encourage them to rely on welfare, creates an easy target and explanation for people's anger.

One one hand, people don't trust the socialists anymore, but on the other hand, they know voting for the conservatives will mean less benefits for them, and they don't like that, so the only alternative they see is someone from the outside, an anti-establishment party who gives them easy answers and solutions -- ban immigrants, and economy will boom again like before! It tell them exactly what they wanna hear.

Maybe instead of studying history in school, which in my opinion only causes nationalism, kids should be studying economics instead, so they don't get fooled by illiterates.

-13 ( +7 / -20 )

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