Russian missile strike on Ukrainian market kills 17 as Blinken announces new $1 bil aid package

Very sad, but it won’t end unless the leaders of both nations call for a ceasefire and discuss a way to end this war. They need to care about their people though and neither do.

A Russian missile tore through an outdoor market in eastern Ukraine on Wednesday, killing 17 people and wounding dozens,

Waiting for the pro-Putin types to say that it was a military market.

as U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken returned to the country with more than $1 billion in new American funding for Ukraine, including military and humanitarian aid.

Good.

Many Republican lawmakers are wary of providing more aid, and the party’s presidential front-runner, former President Donald Trump, has criticized U.S. financial support.

They will approve it. Only the RINOs like MTG and Matt Gaetz don't approve of helping Ukraine.

Opinion polls also have shown a decline in support for the war by the American public.

Most of the American public don't understand foreign policy. Supporting Ukraine is in America's interests.

missile tore through an outdoor market in eastern Ukraine on Wednesday, killing 17 people and wounding dozens,

17 people killed but no reports of women or children among them.

Sure it's a "civilian area" but the Geneva Convention specifically forbids using "civilian areas" as cover to hold meetings of military commanders.

The Ukrainian authorities of course now the age, gender and occupation of all the people killed in this attack.

They don't need to release the names, but releasing the gender, age and occupation of the people killed could instantly dispel claims by the Russians that the market was used for military purposes.

Awaiting the release of the information from Ukrainian authorities.

Waiting for the pro-Putin types to say that it was a military market.

Didn't take long for the POS to turn up with that very excuse.

Very sad, but it won’t end unless the leaders of both nations call for a ceasefire

Is this like that silliness yesterday where you were implying this war was a disagreement amongst gentlemen:

Any means necessary to end the war with a ceasefire should be taken. This is how gentlemen come to agreements and stop the slaughter.

I notice you abandoned that one pretty fast when pointed out with this fact:

The reality is that Russia unilaterally invaded Ukraine. Ukraine did not invade Russia. Ukraine did not invite Russia. Ukraine is trying to expel Russia.

Russia can unlaterally end the war tomorrow by going home. Ukraine is already at home, and cannot end the war tomorrow by going home.

You're attempting to blame the victim. This is equivalent to watching a guy get sucker punched on the street by a guy trying to kill him, and then tell him he's bad for fighting back to protect from being murdered. Or trying to blame a girl for fighting back from getting raped, instead of working with the rapist to come to an acceptable solution.

Do you think it's gentlemanly to invade a sovereign nation and execute it's citizens?

Nothing says “murdering bastards” like a missile strike on a known civilian market.

Putin will never be accepted in civil society again. He has Quadaffied himself.

More Putin war crimes.

“Those who know this place are well aware that it is a civilian area,”

Russian war criminals probably knew it was a civilian area, an that's why they attacked it, and of course the anti-west far right extremists favoring authoritarianism will say the civilians were probably hiding missiles in their clothes.

Russia is shooting rockets at civilian targets to put societal pressure on Ukraine to just give up.

They need to care about their people though and neither do

This is what my granny used to call nonsense, you see. Zelensky put up a peace proposal, and Russia rejected it. They're not the same, no matter how many times you say it.

it could take years to rid Ukraine of entrenched, powerfully armed and skilled Russian troops.

The narrative is shifting.

The the failed offensive was launched, the media assured us the Russians were nothing more than 17 year-old underpaid, drunk conscripts who were sent to battle armed only with shovels and didn't know what they were fighting for.

Oops, they're actually powerfully armed and skilled troops who know how to defend territory.

How many thousands of Ukrainian boys have needlessly been lost because they believed the lie that Russian troops wouldn't be able to defend the Russian-speaking areas?

The area is complex not a simple case of good guys and bad guys you see.

The fact that one country invaded its sovereign nation and started executing it's free citizens in the streets proves you wrong. It is clearly a case of a good guy and a bad guy you see.

Kostiantynivka is an industrial city not far from Donetsk and very close to the Line of Contact.

The article even mentions that, then goes on to include the above quote unchallenged.

It is and has been a major logistics hub for men and material - common knowledge.

The people in the photos sure look like Military Age Males.

Hiding out behind a "market" and putting out some sacks of onions doesn't indemnify oneself.

And the plot thickens as surveillance cameras show the missile coming from the north.

How many thousands of Ukrainian boys have needlessly been lost because they believed the lie that Russian troops wouldn't be able to defend the Russian-speaking areas?

Oh dear, you didn't hear about Robotyne:

https://www.novinite.com/articles/221403/Day+560+of+the+Invasion+of+Ukraine%3A+Russia+withdraws+from+Robotyne%2C+Blinken+visists+Kyiv

Biden and the Pentagon, however, have said repeatedly they will support Ukraine for as long as it takes.

Translation: Hey, we're going to make sure that the military contractors and the politicians get their money. And we will spend taxpayer dollars for a 100 year war if necessary.

Amazing the lengths that the U.S. government will go to protect the corrupt regime in Ukraine and the corrupt politicians in the U.S., not to mention all of the bio labs operating in Ukraine for the benefit of the DoD and the NIH.

There aren’t any military units nearby - Zelensky

 Kostiantynivka, near the front line in the Donetsk region

These two statements are completely contradictory.

And the plot thickens as surveillance cameras show the missile coming from the north.

That's what the Russian propaganda team is pushing on the internet right now. Is it coincidence that you are pushing the same agenda as the Russian propaganda brigade?

These two statements are completely contradictory.

Then Zelensky is doing a good job of making sure Russians don't know what's going on.

And we will spend taxpayer dollars for a 100 year war if necessary.

Are you going to keep simping for Putin for those 100 years?

If you don't like war, don't support invaders. Simple advice for simpers.

Alreafy richer nations are carving up ways to exploit the situation with business deals in Ukraine for rebuilding, all to be paid for by Ukrainian citizens in the form of long term loans with high interest.

Do the Ukrainians have a problem with this?

If you don't like war, don't support invaders. Simple advice for simpers.

Some people think that authoritarians should be pandered to.

Better hope their own country never gets invaded...

Ukraine is a sovereign country.

The Fascists doing what they do best: take revenge on civilians for battlefield incompetence.

Putin, like his BFF Trump, is evidently seeing how many crimes he can be charged with before the World Court...that must be their definition of "winning"....

Attacking a civilian market contributes nothing towards the war effort - which is why Putin is on the losing end after 18 months. Well, that and an incompetent military and a mutinying private army...

No wonder he is going begging to Kim Jong Un for more bullets and bombs...

Ok Zelensky previously published the CCTV video of this incident.

In the video a US-supplied AGM-88 HARM is visible (obvious by its two sets of fins). These have been adapted to be launched from Mig-29 Fulcrums - the UAF has posted photos of these being launched in volleys. People lift their heads and look north. This is not the first time this missile system, adapted for a Soviet-era jet, has gone awry.

Now they are conveniently taking down the footage, but it's out there.

Whether it's a botched attempt, knocked off course by EW or intercepted - I don't know.

realize that the the war is lost

This reminds me of when people start saying they've won on the internet as part of their death throes as their argument falls apart to logic.

The surest sign you aren't winning a war, is needing to tell people you're winning it.

In the video a US-supplied AGM-88 HARM is visible (obvious by its two sets of fins). These have been adapted to be launched from Mig-29 Fulcrums - the UAF has posted photos of these being launched in volleys. People lift their heads and look north. This is not the first time this missile system, adapted for a Soviet-era jet, has gone awry.

This is the propaganda that Russia's propganda brigade is out desperately pushing on the internet to try to not look bad for bombing children. Are you purposefully pushing Russian propaganda, or did you accidentally believe their lies?

Very unfortunate, but all this is the product of a war incited, promoted and sponsored by the United States and its European puppets by financing the Ukrainian coup of 2014 which led to a civil war for which Russia entered the conflict defending Ukraine's Russian ethnic group massacred for 8 years by the Kyiv regime.

Complete and utter nonsense. There was no US backed coup, and anyone who claims this doesn't know what they're talking about. Even if it were the case, that doesn't justify Russia invading, raping, and stealing Ukrainian lands. Russia has been fueling this war since 2014. They're to blame. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-tanks-exclusive-idUSKCN0IC1GE20141023

Blinken giving away more and more thousands of millions dollars to the kyiv regime while the own country is increasing poverty, homelessness, home evictions and bankruptcies through the medical system..

These pathetic democrats continue to make Trump's job much easier to be the next president of the USA..

Again Russians doing what they're best at!

Terrorizing and killing civilians!

Russian war crimes adding up - deHague is waiting for PUTAin and associates!

Russia IS a terrorist state!

Ukraine prevails!

Another charge to add on to the growing list at The Hague.

TokyoLiving

Blinken giving away more and more thousands of millions dollars to the kyiv regime

Good.

while the own country is increasing poverty, homelessness, home evictions and bankruptcies through the medical system..

Blame the GOP house for this. What are they doing? Trying to impeace Biden. How does that help the American people?

These pathetic democrats continue to make Trump's job much easier to be the next president of the USA..

No chance.

2020hindsights, you were right and it didn't take long!

"Sure it's a "civilian area" but the Geneva Convention specifically forbids using "civilian areas" as cover to hold meetings of military commanders." (Thuban)

"The people in the photos sure look like Military Age Males. Hiding out behind a "market" and putting out some sacks of onions doesn't indemnify oneself." (JJE)

More Russian propaganda to come, I'm afraid!

Ukraine prevails!

Coordinates of this incident geolocated at 48.512974, 37.681866.

It's very clear from the CCTV footage that the missile is flying very low level and from the north in the direction of Druzhkivka (UAF controlled). Not only is the missile visible but many people turn their heads to look at it (again northwards).

Next is the missile itself, which has the two sets of fins (rear and mid with the middle being much larger) that is consistent with AGM-88 HARM - and fly's very low level.

The next issue is the obvious airburst explosion - again consistent with above missile.

Then Druzhkivka is about 30 km behind the frontlines, perfect for standoff launches of this missile.

On top of this, they usually produce the engine of the Russian cruise/ballistic missile.

The video says it all. Watch it. No wonder they tried to take it down. No way that was an Iskander M/K.

It's very clear from the CCTV footage that the missile is flying very low level and from the north in the direction of Druzhkivka (UAF controlled). Not only is the missile visible but many people turn their heads to look at it (again northwards).

That's what the Russian propaganda team is pushing on the internet right now. Is it coincidence that you are pushing the same agenda as the Russian propaganda brigade?

Can Putin sleep at night? If he can, something must be done to change that asap.

Just another warcrime for the boys in Moscow.

Everyone doing mental gymnastics about whether it really being a civilian target or not. IT DOESN'T MATTER! They are shooting rockets into another country for no other reason than to expand their border. they could be sitting there with rocket launchers and they would still be an illegitimate and innocent target, as they are in their own country.

Waiting for the pro-Putin types to say that it was a military market

They are reliable.

It’s the ‘free-thinking’ thing.

The time stamp on the CCTV footage is dated 23/9/6 and the explosion occurs at 14:04:08.

The geolocation was aided by the various stores visible - jewellery, phone and pawn shops.

The footage is only 11 seconds long but right at the start, at 2 seconds in there is an enormous boom echoing in the sky from the north. This is what initially people turn to look at.

This is either the launch or it could be the sonic boom of the missile (AGM-88 HARM max speed is Mach 2.9 (987 m/s; 3238 ft/s).

It's clearly not an Iskander.

It’s the ‘free-thinking’ thing.

They seem very free to think exactly what the Kremlin is pushing as its agenda.

It's clearly not an Iskander.

That's what the Russian propaganda team is pushing on the internet right now. Is it coincidence that you are pushing the same agenda as the Russian propaganda brigade?

It’s the ‘free-thinking’ thing.

They seem very free to think exactly what the Kremlin is pushing as its agenda

If we are lucky, they’ll be free thinking about climate change and the LGBT agenda on other threads soon.

$203 million to combat corruption 

so all this corruption Zelensky is supposedly fighting?

he’s charging us to 100s of millions do it. Unbelievable.

Can someone please justify why my tax dollars as an American should be going to Ukraine?

The world hated us for Iraq, Afghanistans, and Vietnam. Haven’t we learned yet that we shouldn’t be getting involved with other countries and their conflicts? Can someone please explain the perspective

Can someone please justify why my tax dollars as an American should be going to Ukraine?

Because they are an ally, fighting for democracy, and it's the sign of decency. It's why other first world countries are also helping Ukraine. It's very leftist, like most of the people in the world.

The world hated us for Iraq, Afghanistans, and Vietnam.

Count me in on part of that world that hated America for those.

That all said, this time America is fighting on side of righteousness, helping a sovereign democratic nation fight for its freedom, not invading other countries like in the examples you gave. Also, America isn't fighting in this one, they are only supporting Ukraine with self-defense.

Because they are an ally, fighting for democracy, and it's the sign of decency.

So we’re the democracy loving people of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam but that doesn’t stop the rest of the world from lambasting the US in our attempt to bring them freedom. As an American, what’s going on on the other side of the world shouldn’t be my concern when that money could be used at home for our own people. So please tell me why my tax dollars should be going to Ukraine without virtue signaling

And foolishly paying corrupt people 203 million of our taxpayer money to encourage them to maybe not be quite so corrupt as before.

it’s stupidity. Our people need that money.

Cold blooded murder. What else can you say?

That all said, this time America is fighting on side of righteousness, helping a sovereign democratic nation fight for its freedom, not invading other countries like in the examples you gave.

So freedom loving people only deserve help when they’re a sovereign nation? So assuming Russia fully takes over Ukraine and absorbs them into the federation you’ll be totally fine with that as now they’re part of a sovereign nation?

So we’re the democracy loving people of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam

Yeah, these were travesties perpetuated by America, and the fact that no one went to jail for Iraq in particular is America's shame.

but that doesn’t stop the rest of the world from lambasting the US in our attempt to bring them freedom.

As I said, I'm one of those that hated American invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq (I was too young for Vietnam), and yet here I am supporting American support of Ukraine.

I know, understanding nuanced opinions can be difficult for people who spend a lot of time watching hyper-biased American news entertainment.

it’s stupidity. Our people need that money.

You aren't in line with your national policy.

So freedom loving people only deserve help when they’re a sovereign nation?

No, that wouldn't logically make sense.

So assuming Russia fully takes over Ukraine and absorbs them into the federation you’ll be totally fine with that as now they’re part of a sovereign nation?

Huh? How could Ukraine be sovereign if it was occupied by Russia?

Next he will say he can only hold elections if we pay him 100s of millions more.?

oh wait, already did.

ohh, is this another "Trump won" like conspiracy theory? Interesting. Does this one also come from Q?

Yep that’s why I will enjoy voting them out so that our new national policy puts our own people first.

Yeah, these were travesties perpetuated by America, and the fact that no one went to jail for Iraq in particular is America's shame.

What travesties? Are you saying that life under the Taliban is better than it was under US supported government control? That Saddam’s dictatorship and death squads were good for the people? You don’t seem to have any consistent belief system for when American supported efforts are good and bad.

I know, understanding nuanced opinions can be difficult for people who spend a lot of time watching hyper-biased American news entertainment.

It’s not nuanced though, it’s riddled with propaganda induced psychosis. You haven’t yet to make a point why supporting why you believe America helping the efforts of some pro-democracy movements like in Ukraine is good while the US supporting pro-democracy movement in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam are bad

JboneInTheZone

The world hated us for Iraq, Afghanistans, and Vietnam. Haven’t we learned yet that we shouldn’t be getting involved with other countries and their conflicts? Can someone please explain the perspective

You sound like you are against American imperialism in Iraq, Afghanistans, and Vietnam.

Me too.

Now, the imperialism is Russian. Ukraine is like Iraq, Afghanistans, and Vietnam.

You should be against that too.

No, that wouldn't logically make sense.

Thats literally what you’re saying though. You support America’s role in Ukraine because they’re fighting for freedom but condemn the U.S. trying to do the same thing in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam. Your ideology lacks consistency

Huh? How could Ukraine be sovereign if it was occupied by Russia?

They wouldn’t be, which is exactly my point

Yep that’s why I will enjoy voting them out so that our new national policy puts our own people first.

Do you think there are as many people angry about this, as there are women angry about the Dodd decision?

I wonder which self-interest will win out in America...

Now, the imperialism is Russian. Ukraine is like Iraq, Afghanistans, and Vietnam.

You should be against that too.

I am against that, but I can also be against my tax dollars being used overseas when they could be used at home.

Thats literally what you’re saying though.

Except it's literally not.

You support America’s role in Ukraine because they’re fighting for freedom but condemn the U.S. trying to do the same thing in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam.

Huh? That's like saying you punched someone to save them from pain.

America invaded mate. That's not "fighting for freedom". I think you maybe got sucked in by some extremist propaganda if you believe that. Do you maybe watch a lot of Fox News?

They wouldn’t be, which is exactly my point

Sure they would, it would be the foreign occupied sovereign nation of Ukraine. The same as Crimea is still part of Ukraine.

with this economy? Way more care about giving away our money.

Are you sure? You think women care more stopping helping a sovereign nation fight for their freedom, than they care about their own body autonomy?

Interesting.

Except it's literally not.

it is though.

America invaded mate. That's not "fighting for freedom". I think you maybe got sucked in by some extremist propaganda if you believe that. Do you maybe watch a lot of Fox News?

So you believe that Iraqi’s were more free under Saddam and that Afghanis are more free under the Taliban? Is that what you’re saying? Because if you’re saying otherwise than the US’s actions in Iraq and Afghanistan were pro-freedom and ultimately resulted in the population of those two countries being freer. So answer this simple questions:

Do you believe Iraq’s were more free under Saddam and Afghani’s are more free under the Taliban?

Sure they would, it would be the foreign occupied sovereign nation of Ukraine. The same as Crimea is still part of Ukraine.

The same argument could be used for Kurdistan which was occupied by Saddam led Iraq. So now that the scenario for Ukraine and Iraq are the same, so you admit that the US led effort in Iraq was ultimately one of freedom?

Opinion polls also have shown a decline in support for the war by the American public.

Most of the American public don't understand foreign policy. Supporting Ukraine is in America's interests.

So you know better than all the Americans gettin tired of wasting more billions on unwinnable war in Ukraine .... why spend the billions on this instead our domestic problems ?

it is though.

Other than the parts where you said 'it', 'is' and 'though', everything in that quote is correct!

So you believe that Iraqi’s were more free under Saddam and that Afghanis are more free under the Taliban? Is that what you’re saying?

No, I haven't said that.

Because if you’re saying otherwise than the US’s actions in Iraq and Afghanistan were pro-freedom

Nah, that is just what the right-wing in America told their population to sell them on the invasion of foreign lands. Atrocities that were just as bad as the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. Again, do you watch a lot of Fox News or something?

So you know better than all the Americans gettin tired of wasting more billions on unwinnable war in Ukraine

The American public supports providing support to Ukraine. You're speaking from the minority of your people.

AH the "Defending Democracy against Fascism is too expensive" deflection.

The smell of desperation mixed with disinformation.

Remarkably close to the smell of decaying Russian corpses.

"Complete and utter nonsense. There was no US backed coup, and anyone who claims this doesn't know what they're talking about."

Obviously its you who dont know what you talking about. Maidan sure was US backed.

No, I haven't said that.

Okay then we agree that the US’s actions resulted in more freedom and independence for those people, yes? In an earlier post you justified America’s involvement in Ukraine because they are “fighting for democracy” but you’re lambasting the U.S. for intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan for helping people fight for democracy. You have no ideological consistency

Nah

Thank you for your concession.

Atrocities that were just as bad as the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. 

Like what? Freeing Kurdistan from literal death squads? You’re making a lot of claims but nothing the U.S. did comes close to the atrocities that Saddam and the Taliban committed on their own people.

Again, do you watch a lot of Fox News or something?

No I don’t like Fox News. I do find it kind of embarrassing that you’re trying to attack me on that front because you can’t defend your ideas though

The people in the photos sure look like Military Age Males

Who do you expect to be manning the rescue teams? Schoolkids?

At least one of the rescuers seems to be female. Second pic.

17 people killed but no reports of women or children among them.

*At least 17 people, including a child, were killed in the blast*

...

*she described seeing soldiers carrying a woman afterwards who "had an open fracture and her bone was sticking out from her leg".*

...

Kostyantynivka sits close to the battlefield and has been hit on various occasions this year

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66731927

Considering how many times the town has been attacked in the past, I wouldn't expect many children to be still there, they will surely have been evacuated.

In the video a US-supplied AGM-88 HARM is visible .....Now they are conveniently taking down the footage, but it's out there.

...

The video says it all. Watch it.

The video is out there? Great. Link, please.

The video of the explosion and aftermath is easily found, but I see no signs of any fins?

Defending Democracy

What “democracy”? Ukraine is a democracy now? What happened to their opposition party? And churches? And media? And elections?

and no defending any democracy doesn’t require 203 million dollars to bribe corrupt people into considering to not be corrupt anymore.

“democracy” doesn’t need payments to avoid being corrupt.

*These two statements are completely contradictory.*

Then Zelensky is doing a good job of making sure Russians don't know what's going on.

Flip flop , flip flop.

Okay then we agree that the US’s actions resulted in more freedom and independence for those people, yes?

I am not clear on whether it did or not. Either way, I am also not an 'end justifies the means' type person, and do not condone invading sovereign nations.

In an earlier post you justified America’s involvement in Ukraine because they are “fighting for democracy” but you’re lambasting the U.S. for intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan for helping people fight for democracy.

Those were invasions based on America's self-interest. The argument that they were helping people fight for democracy was propaganda sold by the American government to their populace. You can't invade a foreign nation and then claim you are fighting for its freedom, I think only propaganda believing American's and Russians could ever be convinced of that logical fallacy.

They seem to have found a willing listener in you.

You have no ideological consistency

Other than the part about having no ideological consistency, I agree with the rest of that quote.

Obviously its you who dont know what you talking about. Maidan sure was US backed.

That was the one where the Russians brought in snipers to shoot at unarmed protesters in a failed attempt to keep their slavish Slavic goober in power.

And while the US certainly supported it, (because, Democracy you know? Oh, you don't) it wasn't a US-backed movement.

People just don't like Putin and his fascist rubes and don't want to live under this tiny thumb.

Since its emergence as an independent state in 1991, “Ukraine has made little progress in consolidating democratic rule. A powerful oligarchy has dominated the country's politics and economy. Corruption has been rife, property rights circumscribed, media independence restricted, and rule of law impaired.”

The American public supports providing support to Ukraine. You're speaking from the minority of your people.

You are wrong.

The American public supports providing support to Ukraine. You're speaking from the minority of your people

The misinformation is strong with this one.

SSRS poll July 2023 

Most Americans oppose Congress authorizing additional funding to support Ukraine in its war with Russia

Overall, 55% say the US Congress should not authorize additional funding to support Ukraine vs. 45% who say Congress should authorize such funding

What “democracy”? Ukraine is a democracy now?

The one where the current president was elected with 70 something percent of the vote.

Just admit it. You want the Russians to win because you love authoritarian dictatorship.

All the money and clean government arguments are just window dressing and I think almost everyone here knows it.

You like authoritarians.

You support authoritarians.

So you want the authoritarian to win.

You are likely to be disappointed.

What “democracy”? Ukraine is a democracy now?

Yes, that is correct.

What happened to their opposition party? And churches? And media? And elections?

I'm not sure which conspiracy theory you're referring to this time...

and no defending any democracy doesn’t require 203 million dollars to bribe corrupt people into considering to not be corrupt anymore.

Your government's foreign policy isn't in line with your comments. I guess you'll have to win your next election so you can change it.

“democracy” doesn’t need payments to avoid being corrupt.

Democracy needs money to support it's war against a foreign invader.

Since its emergence as an independent state in 1991, “Ukraine has made little progress in consolidating democratic rule. A powerful oligarchy has dominated the country's politics and economy. Corruption has been rife, property rights circumscribed, media independence restricted, and rule of law impaired.”

And who said that? Fox News? Q? Don Jr?

The one where the current president was elected with 70 something percent of the vote.

Putin was elected by more than that. Is russia a democracy?

I am not clear on whether it did or not

Women aren’t allowed to go to school in Afghanistan and are forced to wear a veil along with many other draconian laws enacted after the U.S. back Afghani government fell. I think the answer is obvious

Those were invasions based on America's self-interest.

Do you believe that America’s support of Ukraine isn’t based in any sort of self-interest? You can’t be serious, right?

The argument that they were helping people fight for democracy was propaganda sold by the American government to their populace

It’s very evident that those nations ultimately became more democratic after US intervention. There’s no evidence that suggests otherwise. Do you have proof otherwise?

You can't invade a foreign nation and then claim you are fighting for its freedom

Thats a ridiculous statement and completely untrue. You said earlier that fighting for democracy is the decent thing to do and now you’re saying that fighting for democracy isn’t the decent thing to do. How do you not see your own hypocrisy?

The American public supports providing support to Ukraine. You're speaking from the minority of your people.

You are wrong.

Polls say I'm right.

Democracy needs money to support it's war against a foreign invader.

“$203 million to combat corruption”- not to combat Russia.

so unrelated.

Overall, 55% say the US Congress should not authorize additional funding to support Ukraine vs. 45% who say Congress should authorize such funding

Fortunately, WWII policy was not decided based on a snap shot opinion poll.

There is a bipartisan majority in Congress that recognizes the national interest and will act accordingly.

Putin was elected by more than that. Is russia a democracy?

No, it's an autocratic oligarchy.

Next you're going to be asking me if North Korea is a democracy - Kim won 100% of the vote after all!

People of Intelligence are able to differ actual democracies from facades.

Let me know if you need me to tell you which is which.

everyone else but you knows what I’m taking about.

Ohh, do you think it's a conspiracy to keep me from knowing? Is that your newest theory?

Ever notice that the "fascist-adjacent" are the ones who whine about fairness?

Those who try to hide history, are trying to repeat it.

And who said that? Fox News? Q? Don Jr?

just the Council on Foreign Relations.

“The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is an independent, nonpartisan membership organization, think tank, and publisher….”

oops. “Uninformed”.

The one where the current president was elected with 70 something percent of the vote.

Putin was elected by more than that. Is russia a democracy?

And there goes the last semblance of anything that was remotely connected to credibility.

Saddam got 99%. Kim got 100%.

Your midget better up his game if he wants to be a true fascist.

Tiffany (or whatever your name is)

How about this?

" .......sharp rise in backing for arming Ukraine, with 65% of the respondents *(**Americans***) approving of the shipments compared with 46% in a May poll." **(from an independent, reliable source!)

Ukraine prevails!

the left:

Easiest way to stop theft?

just let people take it for free.

easiest way to stop corruption?

pay them more than they were expecting to steal.

but that hasn’t solved your theft or corruption problems has it?

Nobody is saying that corruption is good. And certainly it should be as low as possible.

But the real world level of graft is not zero. (One would think a supporter of Trump would get this idea.)

There was a certain amount of grift in WWII. But should we have just given up?

Sorry, I don't think we will be delivering any more lend-lease equipment because it seems that you cannot account for approximately 0.1%　(That's 1/10 of 1 %) of the aid that has been given.

Leave it up to a glorified day-trader to be so penny wise and pound stupid.

Now, the imperialism is Russian. Ukraine is like Iraq, Afghanistans, and Vietnam.

It is only remotely similar, through a rather technical definition of imperialism.

The problem is that the American imperialism GREATLY outweighs that of Russia.

The U.S. is in control of NATO and is using NATO to surround Russia. Even American diplomats and intellectuals agree that this policy is an existential threat to Russia. And its imperialism.

Here are some names: Jack Matlock, Bill Bradley, Noam Chomsky, Stephen F Cohen (deceased), and John Mearsheimer. Loads of others in agreement as well, such as Vijay Prashad, Vladmir Pozner, Medea Benjamin, John Pilger, Michael Parenti and more. I think George Kennan would be rolling over in his grave right now.

Whatever laurels you think America can rest on, that was all in the past and perfomed by people who are dead. You have to live in the present. America's present leaders are nothing but greedy and reckless. Expanding NATO up to Russia's border was guaranteed to turn out this way, and its exactly why they did it. War is profitable. And they could not care less how many Ukrainians die so long as their blood translates to money.

And as for this missile strike, switch the names and we would probably not hear about it. And if we did, it woudl be down-played.

The problem is that the American imperialism GREATLY outweighs that of Russia.

Maybe historically - that's a topic that could be debated.

But at this exact moment, Russia IS invading a sovereign nation and murdering its citizens, and America isn't, so...