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Shelling kills civilians in Ukraine's northeast as fears grow of a second Russian takeover

60 Comments
By SUSIE BLANN

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60 Comments

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These FPVs are getting more and more accurate

https://twitter.com/i/status/1695294179440562459

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Not as far as I can see. As UChosePoorly mentions, certainly Mariupol and Bakhmut have been.

And to that point, I already elaborated on it.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Despite the Ukrainian nationalist propaganda,

As opposed to Russian nationalist propaganda being spammed into Ukrainian border towns to garner pro-Russian sympathies.

most of the ethic Russians in these regions have been there as long as Ukrainian!

No they haven't.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Bass - Mariupol was devastated, as was Bakhmut. What other cities are you referring to?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

bass4funk

I don't think it's in any way related to his war goals. He wants to take Ukraine in its entirety, not flatten it to the ground.

Well, most of it is, flattened to the ground.

Not as far as I can see. As UChosePoorly mentions, certainly Mariupol and Bakhmut have been. But most major Ukrainian cities are fine.

Again, Ukrainians are being displaced, not the Russians, they have food, malls, China, and a warm bed to go back to.

Considering Russia is invading Ukraine, not the other way around, this is what you would expect. I'm not sure what your point is. Or is it that you believe FalseFlagSteve and think that both sides are as bad as each other?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

AlternativeOpinion

Today 10:57 am JST

It doesn't seem like the population cares to be part of Ukraine!

> Can't imagine there would be many pro ukrainians left in the russian held regions. Land is Ukrainian, if the pro Russians don't like it, they can head for the closest russian oblast

So basically you are endorsing the ethnic cleansing the Nationalist have wanted since independence!

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

AlternativeOpinion

Today 10:57 am JST

Land is Ukrainian,

Is it?

Despite the Ukrainian nationalist propaganda, most of the ethic Russians in these regions have been there as long as Ukrainian!

Some going all the way back to the Kievan Rus times.

People seem to forget it was the Russian Empire that took the areas in the south from the Khanate that were raiding the regions to the north!

It is not as simple as the Ukrainian Nationalist would like you to believe and their propaganda push by western MSM

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Ukraine is a big place, like the size of Texas if that helps for the sake of comparison. Certain cities (Mariupol) and towns (Bakhmut) were wrecked by the fighting, but there is still plenty of Ukraine that isn't devastated. 

I am talking about the cities that were devastated, Germany is a massive country, and look what happened to Berlin.

Would Texas surrender to Mexico because of this? Or would the Texans be pretty pissed off and looking for blood?

I never said, nor did I imply that they should under any circumstances, I was merely talking about the devastation, and the people from those areas that lived there, have historical, cultural, and emotional ties to the city, but that's all gone now.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Well, most of it is, flattened to the ground. 

No Black, the overwhelming majority of Ukraine is not flattened. This is nonsense.

Ukrainians are being displaced, not the Russians, they have food, malls, China, and a warm bed to go back to.

So then how does cutting funding to Ukraine help Ukraine? It doesn't.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I don't think it's in any way related to his war goals. He wants to take Ukraine in its entirety, not flatten it to the ground.

Well, most of it is, flattened to the ground. Again, Ukrainians are being displaced, not the Russians, they have food, malls, China, and a warm bed to go back to.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

It doesn't seem like the population cares to be part of Ukraine!

Directly from the article you linked:

Kupiansk is not a separatist city as such. According to local police, pro-Russian people were in the minority, especially before most residents fled west. But closeness to Russia’s border, prolonged Soviet entanglement and nonstop access to Kremlin propaganda conspired to breed resentment and pro-Russian sympathies at higher rates than normal.

There's also this little tantalizing nugget of information:

Because of the imperial Russian and Soviet legacy, which suppressed the Ukrainian language and moved people around its domains, eastern regions have more connections with Russia than the majority of Ukraine does.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

fears of a second Russian takeover.

Fear by whom?

As pointed out in the Kyiv independent news it seems a large portion of the Kupiansk population actually would welcome the Russians seeing according to the Ukrainian soldiers stationed in Kupiansk at least 50% are pro Russia.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

There was a recent interesting article in the Kyiv news (government approved) where they interviewed Ukrainian soldiers stationed in Kupiansk.

They were saying that it was not like when they arrived in Kherson.

According to these soldiers the population of Kherson were genuinely happy to see Ukrainian soldiers and the population was supportive.

Kupiansk is not the same story! The interviewed soldiers claimed that 50% of the population was hostile towards them ( later in the article the Ukrainian leaders claim 15% to 20% strange they admit that much).

The Ukrainian soldiers said they are always needed to watch their backs, turns out unlike Kherson the majority of the city administration and police remained in place and worked with Russia during the occupation and that according to the Ukrainian government 85% of the police left with the Russians when Ukraine recaptured the city.

The article goes on to point out that daily raids are carried out by the special police and SBU while searching for Russian sympathisers.

https://kyivindependent.com/pro-russian-sympathies-make-life-harder-for-soldiers-cops-in-kupiansk-district/

It doesn't seem like the population cares to be part of Ukraine!

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Bass - Ukraine is a big place, like the size of Texas if that helps for the sake of comparison. Certain cities (Mariupol) and towns (Bakhmut) were wrecked by the fighting, but there is still plenty of Ukraine that isn't devastated.

Think about it like this - say Texas seceded from the US and was then attacked by Mexico. In this analogy, Mexico holds the RGV closest to Mexico (currently occupied territory), Corpus Christi (Mariupol) was wrecked in the fighting, and San Angelo (Bakhmut) has been completely destroyed. Meanwhile, Mexico is chucking missiles and drones into Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio, or they were, but the Patriot batteries are able to preempt most of the deadlier strikes, so Mexico is shooting missiles at El Paso, Amarillo, and Galveston.

Would Texas surrender to Mexico because of this? Or would the Texans be pretty pissed off and looking for blood?

7 ( +11 / -4 )

In the end of the Ukrainians have little or nothing to go back to, that’s a victory for Vlad.

Lol No it isn't. When the war is over the Ukrainians will repair and rebuild their country. Republican appeasement, however, would be a victory for Putin, and there's no spinning that.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Haaa Nemui

2020hindsights

I know exactly what he/she is trying to do, but the line that was quoted from the story is true, regardless of what happens after it. Even if Ukraine was using them on civilians, a pledge was made not to, so it is true that the pledge was made. Yeah, I’m splitting hairs too, but what’s good for the goose.

Fair enough.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

bass4funk

In the end of the Ukrainians have little or nothing to go back to, that’s a victory for Vlad.

I don't think it's in any way related to his war goals. He wants to take Ukraine in its entirety, not flatten it to the ground.

But his forces are unable to take a major city, so he's not going to achieve his war goal.

Unless, you think he's now fighting for sour grapes and if he can't take Ukraine he'll just flatten it.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

2020hindsights

I know exactly what he/she is trying to do, but the line that was quoted from the story is true, regardless of what happens after it. Even if Ukraine was using them on civilians, a pledge was made not to, so it is true that the pledge was made. Yeah, I’m splitting hairs too, but what’s good for the goose.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

How is this even related to the original statement?

What?

“Wait, is Moscow damaged and destroyed beyond recognition? Even if they don’t, in the end the Russians have something back to go to whether failed or victorious, the Ukrainians on the other hand will have nothing.

Just by that observation alone Russia wins.”

In the end of the Ukrainians have little or nothing to go back to, that’s a victory for Vlad.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

After the Russian occupiers left Kupiansk last year, Ukrainian authorities said they found torture chambers and mass graves in the region.

This.

For those who think that Ukraine should surrender, barbaric acts like this are why they keep fighting.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

bass4funk

Russia has demonstrated no ability to actually take a major city.

Wait, is Moscow damaged and destroyed beyond recognition?

How is this even related to the original statement?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Haaa Nemui

That statement is true though. It’s what they pledged to do. That they might have actually used them to try to clear minefields doesn’t make the statement false.

ZORG is splitting hairs. I think he knows what was meant by the article. What Ukraine pledged not to do is use cluster munitions in civilian areas like cities. Because unexploded ordinance is dangerous for civilians. Considering Ukraine is fighting a defensive war and they are its own civilians, it's reasonable to believe them.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

It will still be Russia's crime then.

Still doesn’t change the fact and future of what Ukraine and Kyiv will become.

This isn't 1945.

It’s 2023 at least the architect designs of the newer replaced buildings might not look so depressing.

Russia has demonstrated no ability to actually take a major city.

Wait, is Moscow damaged and destroyed beyond recognition? Even if they don’t, in the end the Russians have something back to go to whether failed or victorious, the Ukrainians on the other hand will have nothing.

Just by that observation alone Russia wins.

Ukraine isn't going to sell itself into slavery to a bunch of terrorists lobbing missiles.

They don’t have to, the Ukrainians will just have to spread out all over the world, yes, free, but with nothing. So Biden and Europe can put as much lipstick on Zelenskyy, but he is who he is, not going to change for him, his country or his people. The US should have never gotten involved in this mess.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Kyiv last month began receiving cluster bombs from the U.S., but has pledged to use them only to dislodge groups of enemy soldiers.

That's not true

That statement is true though. It’s what they pledged to do. That they might have actually used them to try to clear minefields doesn’t make the statement false.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

What makes you attribute such strength to Russia? Is it the ethnostate you are jealous of?

Why do I have to be jealous, I was just stating the truth.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

ZORG

It will still be Russia's crime then. This isn't 1945. Russia has demonstrated no ability to actually take a major city. Ukraine isn't going to sell itself into slavery to a bunch of terrorists lobbing missiles.

How the heck do you know what will be happening if you cant realize what already happened !

Well, we know that Russia hasn't been able to take and hold onto any major city in this war, so there is a basis for his assertion.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

ZORGToday 09:33 am JST

It will still be Russia's crime then. This isn't 1945. Russia has demonstrated no ability to actually take a major city. Ukraine isn't going to sell itself into slavery to a bunch of terrorists lobbing missiles.

How the heck do you know what will be happening if you cant realize what already happened !

The only thing being demonstrated is a lack of awareness by the commenter

We have maps from people who collect this infomation for a living as opposed to gaslighting on the internet.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

U,they do.not have no choice if support is withdrawn ,what so special about Ukrainain,they are no different from the Palestinian occupation

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

There may be countries out there that would surrender to a nation that terrorizes them with missile and drone attacks, but Ukraine is not on that list.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

bass4funkToday 08:59 am JST

Nor is Mr Zelensky. Both stubborn men, who put personal pride above their own citizens lives.

Zelenskyy has a lot more to lose, the countries historic foundation is gone, it’s not coming back. Ever seen what Berlin looked like before? They rebuilt it and now it’s just a God-awful ugly city. Ukraine will be no different.

It will still be Russia's crime then. This isn't 1945. Russia has demonstrated no ability to actually take a major city. Ukraine isn't going to sell itself into slavery to a bunch of terrorists lobbing missiles.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

bass4funkToday 07:30 am JST

Not even surprised, Russia will continue this crazy war aggression until either Zelenskyy waves the white flag and surrenders or there will be nothing left of that country.

What makes you attribute such strength to Russia? Is it the ethnostate you are jealous of?

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

The Ukraine is fighting a defensive war against afar larger country. Attempting to place any sort of blame on the Ukraine or comparing it to Russia is absolutely asinine.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Yes!

The entire article is just Ukraine officials said this and Ukraine officials said that.

It appears someone hasn’t read the entire article.

All of the following paragraphs corroborate this.

Igor Konashenkov, a spokesman for the Russian defense ministry, said in a regular briefing Saturday that Moscow’s forces had “improved their position along the front line” in the Kupiansk area and repelled five Ukrainian assaults over the previous day. He did not give further details regarding any troop movements.

Also on Saturday, a new drone attack on Moscow forced an early morning temporary shutdown of all three major airports serving the city, Russian state media reported. Officials blamed Ukraine for what appeared to be the latest of near-daily strikes on the Russian capital and the surrounding region.

Russia’s defense ministry and Moscow Mayor Sergey Sobyanin said that a drone was shot down over the Istra district of the Moscow region, some 50 kilometers (30 miles) west of Red Square. Sobyanin said in a Telegram post that there were no immediate reports of any casualties or damage.

According to Russia’s state Tass agency, the Sheremetevo, Domodedovo and Vnukovo airports all suspended flights for over an hour early Saturday.

Russian Telegram channels on Saturday posted videos, some of them apparently from home security cameras, of what they claimed was Russian air defense downing the drone. One video shows a car parked outside what appears to be a suburban home, its alarm beginning to blare seconds after two loud blasts sound in the distance.

Russia’s defense ministry that same day blamed Ukraine for the attack. As of Saturday morning, Ukrainian authorities had not said whether Kyiv had any involvement.

Later on Saturday, Russia’s defense ministry said in a separate statement that another drone was brought down as it approached the Russian city of Belgorod, some 45 kilometers (27 miles) from the Ukrainian border. It did not mention any casualties or damage.

Belgorod regional Gov. Vyacheslav Gladkov accused Ukrainian forces of shelling a border village using cluster munitions, wounding six civilians. Gladkov did not provide visual evidence for the use of the controversial and widely banned weapons, which contain dozens of small bomblets that scatter shrapnel over a wide area.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Nor is Mr Zelensky. Both stubborn men, who put personal pride above their own citizens lives.

Zelenskyy has a lot more to lose, the countries historic foundation is gone, it’s not coming back. Ever seen what Berlin looked like before? They rebuilt it and now it’s just a God-awful ugly city. Ukraine will be no different.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

No news on this conflict is reliable, but the basics are the same for any scenario like this.

When a nation invades you, your primary target is the regime responsible, not their armies or conscripts or turf wars. Losing people over a few square miles of territory is daft. Target the leadership with multiple insurgents. The invasion only ends when the invading regime is taken down. Snipers are more reliable than drones.

The choice of targets is key. Avoid civilians/residential. Instead, unprotected infrastructure hubs, energy storage, the internet backbone, military command and control (if military satellites are being used, hit the TRX dish), weapons storage, military factories. Stuff that is easy to break but takes time and money to fix and causes maximum inconvenience. It's not about making the biggest crater, but causing the greatest impact.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Putin is not interested in peace talks.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

This unprovoked and illegal invasion by Russia is a black and white , right or wrong issue.!, Tough guy Putin thought h could just walk all over Ukraine and Zelensky.!, This was supposed to take 3 days to a week .!. Ukraine, nor NATO did anything to threaten Russia.!. And now what ? Putin can travel to Belarus and nowhere else.!. There is ONLY 1 bad side here .!. Some people try to spin reality and share blame with Zelensky, a comedian turned politician turned wartime commander in chief.!. That’s surely what bothers Putin the most .!. I truly don’t understand how any normal thinking person remotely and constantly thinks / states that Zelensky is part of the problem, and that the President of a sovereign country should just let the criminal invaders just keep what they’ve stolen so far.!. That thought process is fatally flawed you see .!. If your neighbor kept stealing from your apartment , would you just say … for short lived peace , just keep what you’ve taken .!. That’s just beta coward …. You see .!.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Problem here is that Ukraine is using civilians building as military hideouts and also using civilians as shields.

Yes, like a while back when they attacked a pizza place where a military meeting was taking place. There were many military casualties, but the article only mentioned the few civilian ones.

And in most cases when civilian structures are hit, they are hit by Russian missiles that were damaged by the Ukrainian defense, or hit by the Ukrainian defensive missile that miss the incoming Russian one.

Unlike the Kiev regime, Russia does not target civilians.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Both sides as bad as each other. Let the, fight it out or do the sensible thing, sit down and sort things out like men.

Absolutely

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

fallafell

Because the conflict is a localised squabble caused by historical events in Ukraine

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

falseflagsteve

Both sides as bad as each other. Let the, fight it out or do the sensible thing, sit down and sort things out like men.

Except one is the defender and the other the invader

7 ( +11 / -4 )

ua is done.for good.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Interesting that there haven't been articles about people fearful that the Kiev regime would conquer or reconquer them.

Yes!

The entire article is just Ukraine officials said this and Ukraine officials said that.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Yeah ok, why not let them fight it out in Russian territory then?

Both sides as bad as each other. Let the, fight it out or do the sensible thing, sit down and sort things out like men.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Both sides as bad as each other. Let the, fight it out or do the sensible thing, sit down and sort things out like men.

-14 ( +6 / -20 )

Russia’s already imploding. With this recent assassination, Putin has to be constantly looking over his shoulder. Putin isn’t as popular as he used to be.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

@pierced dick that there haven't been articles about people fearful that the Kiev regime

I thinkyour Russian/Chinese/Iranian media probably have articles that better suit pro-authoritarian warmongers perspectives.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

"Shelling killing civilians on a front line area.

Again, we are to believe that only civilians were in this "front line" area or that only civilians were killed.

The Ukrainians have a responsibility to remove non combatants from war zones. And we have the responsibility to recognize propaganda when it is as blatant as this report.

-11 ( +8 / -19 )

Not even surprised, Russia will continue this crazy war aggression until either Zelenskyy waves the white flag and surrenders or there will be nothing left of that country.

-16 ( +5 / -21 )

Some folks still don't get it.

Russians again terrorizing Ukrainian civilians.

Again destroying civilian infrastructure.

That's what they're so good at!

Besides, of course people are glad once those invaders are gone and they can live in peace again, in a free and liberated Ukraine!

Ukraine prevails!

3 ( +15 / -12 )

More murdering of innocent civilians by the fascist Russian dogs.

The Ukrainians will never surrender their sacred homeland - so fascist Russia had better prepare to lose a few hundred thousand more disgusting animals.

4 ( +17 / -13 )

Problem here is that Ukraine is using civilians building as military hideouts and also using civilians as shields. Russia going to shell that’s the sad reality. This war is not going to stop anytime soon and because nato doesn’t want peace with this proxy war. I hope this war comes to peace soon.

-12 ( +9 / -21 )

RichardPearceToday 06:52 am JST

Interesting that there haven't been articles about people fearful that the Kiev regime would conquer or reconquer them.

If information could be had out of the press freedom blackhole that was Russia, there could be such articles. What is commonplace are stories of Russian deportations, torture, and killing from areas they have occupied.

5 ( +16 / -11 )

Ukraine is also pushing through Robotyne, signifying that a breakthrough may be occurring there.

2 ( +13 / -11 )

Interesting that there haven't been articles about people fearful that the Kiev regime would conquer or reconquer them.

-9 ( +11 / -20 )

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