Standoff over Trump border wall continues as partial gov't shutdown looms

Before we hear any conservative nonsense about this being the Dems fault because they want open borders, remember Trump said he would be proud to shut down the government.

Yes proud to shut down the government to prevent Dems from.....having open borders.

There are only 2 status these things can have. Open or closed.

If something is not closed then it’s open. Our border is not closed because people who we didn’t invite keep coming in. This it’s open.

Liberals won’t say the border is closed either because entering somewhere that is closed is a crime and that ruins your lawful illegal immigrant story. Pretty simple.

Yes proud to shut down the government to prevent Dems from.....having open borders.

As my post said, it's nonsense that Dems want open borders. Please provide a cite or quote of a dem proclaiming their desire for open borders. I'll wait . . .

There are only 2 status these things can have. Open or closed.

If something is not closed then it’s open. Our border is not closed because people who we didn’t invite keep coming in. This it’s open. 

Liberals won’t say the border is closed either because entering somewhere that is closed is a crime and that ruins your lawful illegal immigrant story. Pretty simple.

The world through black and white glasses. Please, please never try to go to law school.

Maybe the law needs to be black and white. But liberals don’t wave that either because then your side gets prosecuted for lying too. You don’t get to build in your exceptions or circumstances to try to show some didn’t “really” lie.

Black and white is a fair legal system and fair immigration as well.you want to enter this is how you do it step by step. The one and only way. Like Japan.

And the "Trump Shutdown" soon begins - and the Great Orange Two-Year Old is about to deny federal workers a paycheck over the holidays, close parks for families on holiday vacation, and shut veterans care for our most deserving...

And just ask him - he's proud of it....

Proud he can try to "wag the dog" and try to deflect the fact that he's under six separate federal investigations...

Hanging over the White House fireplace are three stockings; Barron, Melania, and "Individual -1"....

As my post said, it's nonsense that Dems want open borders. Please provide a cite or quote of a dem proclaiming their desire for open borders. I'll wait . . .

The Dems want and vehemently defend sanctuary cities, they don’t want to deport illegal’s, they want to give them everything from employment to allowing them to drive and obtain the license, that’s OK and they insist on protecting their so-called rights, but are totally incognito when it comes to the border and wanting border security. Talk about an oxymoron....

And the "Trump Shutdown" soon begins

If there's a shutdown, I hope all the federal government 'contractors', so many of whom are living large on the public dole (welfare?) while having far more benefits than their fellow Americans in the private sector, especially those providing services of questionable value, have to sit at home unpaid with no access to publicly funded services like health care. Unless of course there's an emergency.

Get ready for a Trump distraction. Or, straight up scorched earth hostage taking hurting as many innocent (and brown) people as he can.

bass4funkToday 08:18 am JST

"As my post said, it's nonsense that Dems want open borders. Please provide a cite or quote of a dem proclaiming their desire for open borders. I'll wait . . ."

The Dems want...

NO, it said "provide a cite or a quote of a dem proclaiming their desire for open borders."

Open borders. That was quite explicit. Nothing about any of the stuff you were blabbering on about. Can you not read anything without misconstruing it as an excuse for yet another tiresome sermon on one of your pet rant topics?

Trump PROMISED dozens of times: Mexico will pay for the wall.

Not. One. Penny. 

Let the rubes who voted for the treasonous orange grifter pay for his wall.  

Do not back down, Dems. Now is the time to start pushing back.

Until January 3rd, the only reason Trump isn't getting funding for his wall is b/c of GOP opposition in congress. He conveniently leaves that out of his tweets. Starting next month he can blame Democrats and that's ultimately what will happen. GOP leadership will punt the problem a few weeks down the road and the president will immediately attempt to distract people from the Democratic leadership's agenda by focusing exclusively on immigration. Naturally the media will comply.

Of course, Democrats do themselves no favors since most Americans see that they only stand against Trump or the wall with no clear vision about how immigration should be handled.

Not all Democrats or those who caucus with them are for open borders:

[Bernie] Sanders was interviewed by Ezra Klein, the editor in chief of Vox [in 2015]. Klein asked whether, in order to fight global poverty, the U.S. should consider “sharply raising the level of immigration we permit, even up to a level of open borders.” Sanders reacted with horror. “That’s a Koch brothers proposal,” he scoffed. He went on to insist that “right-wing people in this country would love … an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don’t believe in that. I think we have to raise wages in this country.”

I'm an extremely liberal democrat who isn't for open borders. Don't listen to bass or Blacklabel. Democrats are divided over immigration. I would even go so far as to say our leadership is way too quiet on the issue, which simply allows Trump to demagogue his way through office. It wasn't always like this. Even a decade ago, liberals were more robust in their skepticism about unchecked immigration. From a great article by Peter Beinart last year:

In 2005, a left-leaning blogger wrote, “Illegal immigration wreaks havoc economically, socially, and culturally; makes a mockery of the rule of law; and is disgraceful just on basic fairness grounds alone.” In 2006, a liberal columnist wrote that “immigration reduces the wages of domestic workers who compete with immigrants” and that “the fiscal burden of low-wage immigrants is also pretty clear.” His conclusion: “We’ll need to reduce the inflow of low-skill immigrants.” That same year, a Democratic senator wrote, “When I see Mexican flags waved at proimmigration demonstrations, I sometimes feel a flush of patriotic resentment. When I’m forced to use a translator to communicate with the guy fixing my car, I feel a certain frustration.”

The blogger was Glenn Greenwald. The columnist was Paul Krugman. The senator was Barack Obama.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-democrats-immigration-mistake/528678/

Maybe the law needs to be black and white. But liberals don’t wave that either because then your side gets prosecuted for lying too. You don’t get to build in your exceptions or circumstances to try to show some didn’t “really” lie.

Black and white is a fair legal system and fair immigration as well.you want to enter this is how you do it step by step. The one and only way. Like Japan.

Hahahahahaha! Reality is not black and white.

The Dems want and vehemently defend sanctuary cities, they don’t want to deport illegal’s, they want to give them everything from employment to allowing them to drive and obtain the license, that’s OK and they insist on protecting their so-called rights, but are totally incognito when it comes to the border and wanting border security. Talk about an oxymoron....

You are mistaking approaching an issue in a calm, rational manner instead of being driven by fear and screeching nonsense the top of your lungs as being incognito. ROFL! Oh my . . . , Smh. HAR!

Dozens of times we've seen conservatives lay out "liberal positions" only to find they can't give a single example of anyone here who has said that. It's a product of the bubble. They believe what they are told from the bubble more than actual people speaking in front of them.

One Trump fan here told me that I wasn't posting my real opinions. He knew my real thoughts and knew that I was just too embarrassed to admit them publicly, so I kept them all a secret and when I posted something reasonable sounding I was just pretending. A cover for my secret, radical positions, which he knew all about.

True story.

The only wall that ever worked was the Berlin wall and that was set up as a kill zone, not a simple wall. There is no way the proposed wall will work. Huge waste of money. And while I love to watch Schumer and Pelosi look uncomfortable I don't know if it was out of embarrassment or what.

The Dems want and vehemently defend sanctuary cities, they don’t want to deport illegal’s, they want to give them everything from employment to allowing them to drive and obtain the license, that’s OK and they insist on protecting their so-called rights, but are totally incognito when it comes to the border and wanting border security.

Bogus hooey....

Talk about an oxymoron....

A Trump supporter using a word with "Moron" in it - Rex Tillertson would be proud of you....

Get a visa at the border. Cas closed.

The GOP control all three branches of government and yet can't put together 60 votes in the Senate to pass the legislation they proposed.

The problem is that they are so hyperpartisan, and spent eight year obstructing the previous administration, which has left them with a fundamental inability to understand how to write something that works with the other team, rather than against them. Then they get all pissy about their inability to just bully the other team into working with them, and try to blame the other team for not allowing itself to be bullied.

Morons.

The Dems want and vehemently defend sanctuary cities, they don’t want to deport illegal’s, they want to give them everything from employment to allowing them to drive and obtain the license, that’s OK and they insist on protecting their so-called rights

None of which show that the Democrats want open borders, like you so repeatedly falsely claim.

There are only 2 status these things can have. Open or closed

As in Trumpers minds are closed, and their Dear Leader's fly is open....

Talk about an oxymoron....

Question:  What's an oxymoron...

Answer:  A Trump supporter with asthma...

that’s OK and they insist on protecting their so-called rights, but are totally incognito when it comes to the border and wanting border security

Incognito - you mean like "John Barron"?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/21/the-amazing-story-of-donald-trumps-old-spokesman-john-barron-who-was-actually-donald-trump-himself/?utm_term=.9f9def25a4df

Open borders. That was quite explicit. Nothing about any of the stuff you were blabbering on about.

Sorry, but there is nothing about border security that the Democrats like a fence is not going to stop anybody from coming in a very tall wall will at the very least it will slow them down considerably and if you add to that a double fence it makes it even harder you increase the border security presence with more border agents, then you will have a very secure border, anything less than that is a joke.

Can you not read anything without misconstruing it as an excuse for yet another tiresome sermon on one of your pet rant topics?

Sorry, but I’m California, I know the State like the back of my hand, lived there half of my life, when people that don’t live in the State or country or along the border or understand how bad and violent it is down there. I tend to laugh and just brush it off like, whatever....Liberals and the Democrats were never, ever for increased border security, but at the same time, they go nuts if you want to abolish sanctuary cities. I don’t care that cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles have become third world almost uninhabitable cities with homeless, illegals, drug infested crime infested cities. Add to that, if liberals and Dems were really for increased border security, now let’s take the wall out of the argument for a moment, these weak people still want to abolish ICE?? Seriously,

@Bass4funk

Sounds like you're really taking this issue personally being Californian. That's cool but, a lot of other people have lived there their entire lives and don't want a 5 billion dollar wall put up. A lot of people there that are from south of the border are not dangerous criminals who wish harm upon Americans. A lot of people migrating from south of the border are not terrorists (Probably none of them are). And LA and San Francisco are very from uninhabitable 3rd world cities. Would be safe to assume you've never been to one if you have that image in your head...

Sounds like you're really taking this issue personally being Californian.

I have for over 30 years.

That's cool but, a lot of other people have lived there their entire lives and don't want a 5 billion dollar wall put up.

Some do, but overall, support for the wall is growing.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/december_2018/support_for_border_wall_on_the_rise_again_but_not_at_govt_expense

A lot of people there that are from south of the border are not dangerous criminals who wish harm upon Americans.

No believes that they are and despite what the liberal narrative is that was never the problem. The problem was and always have been having a pourous border and illegal immigration, chain migration, catch and release and putting an end to the visa lottery program, also having an open border, sections that are open where people for years want it closed, but the politics in California are a giant liberal echo chamber and you are now seeing move people leaving the State because if these politicians refusing to listen to these people.

A lot of people migrating from south of the border are not terrorists (Probably none of them are).

Some are.

And LA and San Francisco are very from uninhabitable 3rd world cities.

Yes, they actually are.

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/rise-californias-tent-cities

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/19/californias-homelessness-crisis-a-major-issue-in-governors-race.html

Would be safe to assume you've never been to one if you have that image in your head...

As I said, I was born and grew up in the State, I know it all too well, sorry.

California are a giant liberal echo chamber and you are now seeing move people leaving the State because if these politicians refusing to listen to these people.

Wait, before you were saying people are leaving because of the taxes. Now, it's because of the "open border." You never fail to shift rationale when you think it will help your argument.

Sorry, but there is nothing about border security that the Democrats like a fence is not going to stop anybody from coming in a very tall wall will at the very least it will slow them down considerably and if you add to that a double fence it makes it even harder you increase the border security presence with more border agents, then you will have a very secure border, anything less than that is a joke.

Yet you cannot provide a secure or quote to any democrat promoting open borders. Always the same with conservatibes: deflect and obfuscate.

Wait, before you were saying people are leaving because of the taxes.

Yes, that’s overall.

Now, it's because of the "open border."

Yes, for many people living along the border.

@bass4funk

Nothing in the articles you posted is anything remotely indicating LA and SF are 3rd world cities. They are pieces on growing homeless communities within California due to overpriced housing etc. Not sure what background you come from, but you must be pretty well off. Homeless in California, that ain't nothing new and it's not a result of poor border control.

What evidence is there that there are terrorists coming over from South America?

Rasmussen was the same source that said Trumps approval rate was at 51% when the average of all other (including right wing media sources) averaged at between 40-43%. Not trustworthy.

Thinking a 5 billion wall is the only thing to help improve border security is very closed minded, don't you think?

With all the problems America faces, rampant gun violence, opioid epidemics, domestic terrorism, all the right wing haters want to focus on is the 'Brown Man' slipping through the border. The are willing to put the country at risk to avoid these poor people flowing in to take up jobs most Americans are unwilling to do.

Its probably having a black President which brought these racists out of the woodwork and they seem hell bent on destroying America through their imaginary race wars.

Sign of the times when the clueless commander in chief is more keen on funding Space Wars rather than Space Research!!

Schumer and Pelosi have walls around their mansions.

Want to ban guns, have bodyguards fully armed with guns. Pathetic losers.

Slogan of the Left. Make MS-13 Great Again

Schumer and Pelosi have walls around their mansions.

Trump supporters have walls around their minds (small walls....)

Want to ban guns,

Common sense gun control, as do a majority of Americans and NRA members...

have bodyguards fully armed with guns

US Secret Service, Trump's uses the Russian FSB...

Pathetic losers.

At least they're not referred to as "Individual -1"....

Slogan of the Left. Make MS-13 Great Again

Slogan of Patriotic Americans (right and left): GTM MAGA Go Team Mueller Many Are Going Away...

Nothing in the articles you posted is anything remotely indicating LA and SF are 3rd world cities.

When you have a growing homeless population problem becoming a concern that every liberal paper talks about and the California State assembly which is all Democrats complain, worry and ponder on what to do, you know you have a real problem.

They are pieces on growing homeless communities within California due to overpriced housing etc.

And many of the homeless are now going into the bigger cities like San Francisco and even smaller upperclass beautiful cities like Pasadena are seeing and increase in the homeless rate.

https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2018/05/01/pasadenas-homeless-count-shows-the-tight-rental-market-is-pushing-more-people-into-the-streets/

Not sure what background you come from, but you must be pretty well off. Homeless in California, that ain't nothing new and it's not a result of poor border control.

No, it’s not new you are right, but the increase of homelessness is growing as well as the illegal immigrants population of the sanctuary cities. Pasadena almost never had a homeless problem 8 years ago, Santa Monica, not THAT much, but now, it’s slowly getting out of hand.

What evidence is there that there are terrorists coming over from South America?

What evidence is there that there isn’t?

Rasmussen was the same source that said Trumps approval rate was at 51% when the average of all other (including right wing media sources) averaged at between 40-43%. Not trustworthy.

Rasmussen is one of the more reliable polls that virtually every network and major media uses and has been for over 12 years.

Thinking a 5 billion wall is the only thing to help improve border security is very closed minded, don't you think?

No, I think it’s an excellent idea, just ask the Israelis.

bass4funk: The problem was and always have been having a pourous border and illegal immigration, chain migration, catch and release and putting an end to the visa lottery program, also having an open border

We've been over this. Democrats have already agreed to legislation to increase border security in bipartisan bills. They have also agreed to end the visa lottery program. They have also agreed to end chain migration except for parents or children, no more brothers/sisters/aunts/uncles, etc.

And despite being told that here a dozen times, you still present a false narrative with strawmen. You're stubbornly holding to on disagreement when agreement is right in front of you.

are now seeing move people leaving the State because if these politicians refusing to listen to these people.

This is where you go off the rails by making things up on the spot. In reality, the people voted out the GOP is what they did.

Sorry, but I’m California, I know the State like the back of my hand

And I'm from Arizona, another border state, and I have family in San Francisco. You're some guy who lived in LA part-time as a kid and has gone on record saying that you avoid going back there as much as possible. Stop telling everyone that your resume means you can ignore statistics and opinion polls, as well everyone else who disagrees with you.

Trump taking responsibility for the government shut down makes no difference. The failure to protect our nation is the fault of the dim witted Democrat leadership and the Republican's in Congress that cannot vote to support a "Wall." The is just idiotic. By the way, we are not talking about one piece of solid wall across the county. It will be somewhat of a strategic patchwork that is manned and guarded with other measures. Bottom line is we have to spend whatever is needed to stop the invasion!

We've been over this. Democrats have already agreed to legislation to increase border security in bipartisan bills.

Yes, we have been over this. So how do the Dems propose to increase border security?

They have also agreed to end the visa lottery program. They have also agreed to end chain migration except for parents or children, no more brothers/sisters/aunts/uncles, etc.

There was no legislation from the Democrats that stated such a thing.

And despite being told that here a dozen times, you still present a false narrative with strawmen.

No, I was down their earlier this spring and despite what the left are feverishly trying to indoctrinate into the gullible minds of liberals, I saw firsthand how crazy and dangerous it can be.

You're stubbornly holding to on disagreement when agreement is right in front of you.

Right back at you, Super.

Bass:. There was no legislation from the Democrats that stated such a thing.

Oh, boy. I've put it right in front of you with actual language from the actual bill. If your position is that no such legislation ever existed and it's all made up stuff that someone printed as a lie then come out and say it.

No, I was down their earlier this spring and despite what the left are feverishly trying to indoctrinate into the gullible minds of liberals, I saw firsthand how crazy and dangerous it can be.

Empty statement. Or, if you want to play that game, I've been to San Diego, LA twice, and Frisco in the last year. My personal, unproven anecdotes are more credible than yours.

Right back at you, Super.

Um, no bass, not right back at me. I'm telling you that we have agreement on most things you are demanding. It's the far right of the GOP stopping all of these bipartisan legislation.

Empty statement.

Video doesn’t lie.

Or, if you want to play that game, I've been to San Diego, LA twice, and Frisco in the last year. My personal, unproven anecdotes are more credible than yours. 

I don’t think so

Um, no bass, not right back at me. I'm telling you that we have agreement on most things you are demanding. It's the far right of the GOP stopping all of these bipartisan legislation.

And yet, the Democrats have done nothing to halt the tide of illegals entering the country. Anything short of a more permanent solution of a wall is. To dealing with reality.

Whoops! Sarah Sanders has said that he budget can go ahead without funding for the wall. Trump caves in again, the same day the criminal Trump Foundation is dissolved.

Surrender, loss and failure. Again. Trump might be right that people would be sick of winning - he just didn’t expect it to be his opponents.