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Statue of Robert E Lee comes down in Virginia capital

61 Comments
By SARAH RANKIN and DENISE LAVOIE

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61 Comments

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It now needs to be dumped in a deep spot in the Atlantic Ocean.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

Lee was a traitor to his country. He fought in order to uphold the enslavement of human beings.

Nothing about this man is worth commemorating.

4 ( +16 / -12 )

So long Robbie.

Led a traitorous insurrection against your legally elected government and list.

Personally you may have been a complex figure, but you’ll no longer be a focal point to racists and insurrectionists.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

Cool

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

This action is long overdue. The confederates were and are enemies of America. Why pay tribute to traitorous scum that tried to destroy America ?

-2 ( +11 / -13 )

Who is Lee and what did he do? See guys, it's already happening; the statue came down and now I can't remember what he did. ;)

The Washington monument is the next logical choice.

No it isn't.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Wow, so many historians on here. who knew?

can we get rid of all the statues of Charlemagne too? Better yet, let’s just wipe everyone’s brain of all history. Oh wait, TV works fine.

-1 ( +14 / -15 )

This is just the beginning. There are still many more statues of racist and traitorous Democrat still standing.

-5 ( +11 / -16 )

This is just the beginning. There are still many more statues of racist and traitorous Democrat still standing.

Which is why you're naturally all for getting rid of the statues, right?

can we get rid of all the statues of Charlemagne too?

Lmao how statues of Charlemagne are there in the US?

Better yet, let’s just wipe everyone’s brain of all history.

I agree, I've already forgotten who Lee is. I guess I'll remember when history repeats itself? Lolz

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

Wow, so many historians on here. who knew?

can we get rid of all the statues of Charlemagne too?

Sir, do you mean Charlemagne fought in the Civil war?

Astounding.

You sir, deserve a Nobel!

0 ( +10 / -10 )

The confederacy has no legal standing,they were seditious trash

-1 ( +10 / -11 )

This is just the beginning.

of the end for seditionist traitors and their “lost cause” myth.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Why not put works of art in place and just forget people statues altogether!

2 ( +6 / -4 )

The Washington monument is the next logical choice.

I don’t see any logic in that statement.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

There are still around 2,000 confederate statues. They can be placed in museums. The education of one of America's darkest periods must be taught.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

The Night they drove old Dixie down.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Wonder when they will take down lady Liberty, Lincoln, King, Mt. Rushmore and every other statue in the US., give it time, it’s coming.

-5 ( +9 / -14 )

Wonder when they will take down lady Liberty, Lincoln, King, Mt. Rushmore and every other statue in the US., give it time, it’s coming.

lol No it isn't. No one, in any position of power, wants to get rid of statues of Lincoln. Get real.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Wonder when they will take down lady Liberty, Lincoln, King, Mt. Rushmore and every other statue in the US., give it time, it’s coming.

I cannot believe I have to say this, but Mt. Rushmore is not a statue. It's a mountain with a sculpture carved into it.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Everything.

No. Nothing you wrote has anything to do with taking down a statue of Robert E Lee.

You don’t have to like the man, you don’t have to respect the man, but he was still a part of US history and knowing and teaching kids about the past it’s a good thing so you don’t repeat any of the ugly atrocities that were committed

We don't have statues of people to "teach the past." We put them up to venerate them. That is why you won't find any statues of Hitler in Germany. They don't need statues of him to learn what an evil monster is. Likewise, we don't need to venerate traitors like Lee. He doesn't deserve a statue.

No, that wasn’t the point, the point is I never thought that America would bow down to China, I never thought these American companies bow down to China

Lol And my point is that has nothing to do with taking down a statue of Lee.

nothing to glorify about the men, but he was still American

What does the fact that he was American have to do with anything? Do all Americans have statues of themselves? He needs a statue because he was American. Really? lol

and he was still a part of history and just because he move the statue, does it mean you can wipe away history,

No one wants to wipe history. We should teach about Lee, the Confederacy and slavery. They all belong in textbooks, not parks and on government property.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Robert E. Lee has become a target among those seeking to obviate history allegedly because he held slaves and fought for his home state rather than the nation. But so did tens of thousands of others similarly situated. Lee was distinguished from his contemporaries by an exemplary career, both in the U.S. and Confederate armies, of competence and honor. In later years, Lee also distinguished himself as an educator: As president of the institution that is now Washington and Lee University, he was largely responsible for fashioning the modern college honor code. 

With regards to the above, if we disqualified such historical figures because we NOW reject their society's practices, we'd commemorate few people indeed, and we'd deprive ourselves of many sources of inspiration.

Food for thought.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

With regards to the above, if we disqualified such historical figures because we NOW reject their society's practices, we'd commemorate few people indeed, and we'd deprive ourselves of many sources of inspiration.

There is nothing new about this argument. Others may disagree, but I think you have to consider what they, historical figures, are most known. Yes, it is true that Jefferson and Washington had slaves. However, they're most known for being founding fathers of the US; Respectively known for leading the Continental Army and for writing the Constitution.

Lee, however, what is he known for? For defending slavery, for fighting for the South's right to own slaves. That is why he doesn't deserve a statue. We shouldn't lionize people who are most known for the evil they defended.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Wonder when they will take down lady Liberty, Lincoln, King, Mt. Rushmore and every other statue in the US., give it time, it’s coming.

Give Tucker a rest. Too much drama isn’t good for you.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Lee, however, what is he known for? For defending slavery, for fighting for the South's right to own slaves. That is why he doesn't deserve a statue. We shouldn't lionize people who are most known for the evil they defended.

Since almost everyone conforms in most respects to prevailing social practices, disqualification for such conduct is necessarily arbitrary and driven more by politics than by merit. The fact that a particular vice prevailed in a person’s place and time becomes an excuse for stripping recognition from people whose lives contradict the propaganda of those in power.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

No. Nothing you wrote has anything to do with taking down a statue of Robert E Lee.

It does, give it time and watch other statues disappear.

We don't have statues of people to "teach the past."

Ok, and who determines that? When you try and bury the past, you are doomed to repeat it it somewhere down the line in the future.

What does the fact that he was American have to do with anything?

The fact that the left feel they have the right to uproot statues they don’t like? Wait for future ramifications

No one wants to wipe history.

If that is indeed the truth then I feel that leaving the statues should serve as a vital learning tool to educate kids what was done wrong and what was done right and allow them to form their own opinions, that’s how I was raised and most Americans. The entire cancel culture is creating more homeschooling which has increased to over 5 million and growing and parents want their kids to know all of American history, the good, the bad and ugly side of it and not only just what the left wants.

We should teach about Lee, the Confederacy and slavery.

I agree.

They all belong in textbooks, not parks and on government property.

I disagree, they should remain and it should be given to the community and the State where they reside and the people should be polled and asked how they feel and if they want or think the statues should be removed.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Since almost everyone conforms in most respects to prevailing social practices,

Slavery wasn't a "prevailing social practice" in the United States. That is why the South seceded.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Today “progressives” vandalize statues of Columbus and Lee, allegedly because of actions motivated by racism. Who knows? Maybe tomorrow, a “white nationalist” majority might uproot monuments to Martin Luther King citing his adulteries and other indiscretions.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Hundreds of onlookers erupted in cheers and song as the 21-foot-tall bronze figure was lifted off a pedestal and lowered to the ground.

Well, these activist onlookers will have to find new targets now. What is the endgame? A country where every image is erased, like Afghanistan?

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

From an artistic point of view, statues are stultifyingly dull.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Slavery wasn't a "prevailing social practice" in the United States. That is why the South seceded.

Disagreement persists today. Many maintain that the primary cause of the war was the Southern states’ desire to preserve the institution of slavery. Others minimize slavery and point to other factors, such as taxation or the principle of States' Rights.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Ok, and who determines that? When you try and bury the past, you are doomed to repeat it it somewhere down the line in the future.

Ridiculous. Statues are put up to venerate people- not teach history. We both agree, Robert E. Lee, the Civil War, and the Confederacy should all be taught in school. Who is trying to forget history?

I disagree, they should remain and it should be given to the community and the State where they reside and the people should be polled and asked how they feel and if they want or think the statues should be removed.

You pretty much already have that. The governor of Virginia ordered the statue down. The state Senator who represents the district where the statue was supports bringing the statue down. What is the problem?

Maybe tomorrow, a “white nationalist” majority might uproot monuments to Martin Luther King citing his adulteries and other indiscretions.

That would be incredibly stupid. How were white nationalists harmed by MLK's adultery?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Wonder when they will take down lady Liberty, Lincoln, King, Mt. Rushmore and every other statue in the US., give it time, it’s coming.

Ugh. Such a straw man. The reasoning of taking down the statue of Lee and equating it to taking down all statues makes zero argumentative sense.

There are still many more statues of racist and traitorous Democrat still standing.

The liberal/conservative ideal wasn't even a thing during the Civil War. It's complete ignorance to refer to Democrats as a way of arguing taking down the statue that represents repression and slavery of black people as a cause for a war.

The Washington monument is the next logical choice.

The straw man trifecta. The fallacy might be beyond the thought of those who cannot critical think.

These straw man arguments have nothing to do with the subject of taking down the Lee statue. Pure folly and ridiculous words of fallacious arguments.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Disagreement persists today. Many maintain that the primary cause of the war was the Southern states’ desire to preserve the institution of slavery. Others minimize slavery and point to other factors, such as taxation or the principle of States' Rights.

I'm sure white nationalists will disagree, but there is no disagreement amongst historians regarding the primary cause of the war. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how integral slavery was to the South.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

"our new government['s] foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Seems pretty clear to me.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

It does, give it time and watch other statues disappear.

I will be very happy to statues of confederate traitors disappear.

If that is indeed the truth then I feel that leaving the statues should serve as a vital learning tool to educate kids what was done wrong and what was done right and allow them to form their own opinions, that’s how I was raised 

Your parents sat you down in front of a statue and said, "look at that statue. Now you know everything about this person, their life, and the historical context of their life"? Weird. I would have taught you to read books, instead.

I disagree, they should remain and it should be given to the community and the State where they reside and the people should be polled and asked how they feel and if they want or think the statues should be removed.

They did.

Well, these activist onlookers will have to find new targets now. What is the endgame? A country where every image is erased, like Afghanistan?

No. I hope this has been helpful.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

With regards to my earlier comment, I'd like to say that, the traditional consensus is not an infallible guide to deciding whom to commemorate. In some cases, moreover, politics induces decision makers to ignore the traditional standards, but the traditional standard does help minimize political manipulation of history. Perhaps that is precisely why the standard is flouted by those who want to politicize everything.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Ok, and who determines that? When you try and bury the past, you are doomed to repeat it it somewhere down the line in the future.

Sir, your grasp on facts is astounding.

If that is indeed the truth then I feel that leaving the statues should serve as a vital learning tool to educate kids what was done wrong and what was done right and allow them to form their own opinions, that’s how I was raised and most Americans. 

Wonder why they don't have statues of Hitler in Europe?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Disagreement persists today. Many maintain that the primary cause of the war was the Southern states’ desire to preserve the institution of slavery. Others minimize slavery and point to other factors, such as taxation or the principle of States' Rights.

It was about slavery. No serious historian disputes this.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Sir, your grasp on facts is astounding.

I feel the same about the left

Wonder why they don't have statues of Hitler in Europe?

Youre making an apples and oranges argument. Like I said, doesn’t matter of the left try to silence opposing viewpoints, the fact remains this will in some shape or form will have tragic results, that’s a fact.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Youre making an apples and oranges argument

How is it different, Bass? Hitler and Robert E. Lee both defended evil causes.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Erasing monuments of once-revered figures upsets an unspoken but long-prevailing consensus governing our decisions of whom to commemorate. Are we going to be like the ancient Egyptian pharaohs who destroyed and covered up past rulers’ names they didn't like? Are we any different than the Taliban who destroyed priceless antique statues a few years ago? They dishonored past people and their culture. Well yes, we are becoming very much like them. Erasing history is not the answer.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Sad to see people still unable to view history without anger. How many centuries before the anger goes away? If there is still anger over the US civil war, I can only assume the anger over WWII ill carry on for another century at least.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Youre making an apples and oranges argument. Like I said, doesn’t matter of the left try to silence opposing viewpoints, the fact remains this will in some shape or form will have tragic results, that’s a fact.

same answer you gave me yesterday regarding exchanging the word abortion with homophobia regarding the Texas paid snitch law.

no, Bass it is not an apples to oranges argument.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Well, these activist onlookers will have to find new targets now. What is the endgame? A country where every image is erased, like Afghanistan?

I remember many years ago when the Taliban blew up a number of statues; this was very much frowned upon by the rest of humanity...

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I wish this wasn’t happening. I worry about blowback.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

 Are we any different than the Taliban who destroyed priceless antique statues a few years ago? They dishonored past people and their culture. Well yes, we are becoming very much like them. Erasing history is not the answer.

lmao Not the same at all. You're arguing that statues of the people who fought to keep slaves, people who valued their right to own other people more than they valued US citizenship. Robert E. Lee and confederate leaders don't deserve to be respected.

Erasing history is not the answer.

No one is trying to erase history, we just want to get rid of a couple of ugly statues of traitors and losers. I fully support keeping the names and stories of the losers who lost the civil war in history books.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

I feel the same about the left

I am sure the left is honored, sir.

Youre making an apples and oranges argument. 

How dear sir, arent they both war criminals and losers?

If American kids deserve to know their war criminals and losers why should the European ones be denied the same honor.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

raw beer:

I remember many years ago when the Taliban blew up a number of statues

So what did Buddha do that was so awful?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Why should the U.S. have a statue of an ACTUAL DEFINITIONAL traitor?

You don't see statues of Benedict Arnold anywhere........

The only historically accurate statue of Lee would be one of him surrendering.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

In a 1866 letter to fellow Confederate Gen. Thomas L. Rosser, Lee wrote, “As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated, my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt … would have the effect of … continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour.”

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Nobody notices statues until they are taken down.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

no, Bass it is not an apples to oranges argument.

I disagree, I think it is.

If American kids deserve to know their war criminals and losers why should the European ones be denied the same honor.

I could care less what Europe does or how they conduct and deal with their history, I care only for how the US conducts and honors its history as an American.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I disagree, I think it is.

Why is it an apple and oranges comparison?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The statue was removed from a public park at the request of the residents. Even a descendent of Lee, a reporter, also said it was good to remove it.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Anality is part of the psychosis.

None of that here too.

Why don't you put in a request to have it in your home town?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I disagree, they should remain and it should be given to the community and the State where they reside and the people should be polled and asked how they feel and if they want or think the statues should be removed.

I’d go along with communities deciding this.

Then again, given how polarised things are, there will be all sorts of hysterics and shouts of ‘fascism’ from both sides. It certainly won’t solve the problem completely, but at least you could point to a democratic mandate

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I care only for how the US conducts and honors its history as an American.

Why should General Lee be honored? Please explain.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Takeda said it best here I think, we put statues up to honor and venerate a historical figure. Nobody looks at a statue of a figure they don't know and goes "Oh, that is who that is, I got it now!". They aren't educational objects. Maybe an accompanying plague, but you can leave that and get the same educational value.

Comparing it to book-burning isn't accurate because books inherently convey information. I will be on the conservative side if they start censoring Lee out of textbooks, because yes we should learn about the evil figures of the Civil war, but we don't need statues to do that.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

How about taking the stand down too? BLM and antifa graffiti is not really a good look if you want people to invest in your community.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I feel that leaving the statues should serve as a vital learning tool to educate kids what was done wrong

So you'd be OK with a statue honoring Timothy McVeigh. Otherwise youngsters won't learn about the dangers of rightwing extremism?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

When you are arguing in favor of treason-weasel seditionists, you are losing (have lost) the argument.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

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