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© Copyright 2021 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.Statue of Robert E Lee comes down in Virginia capital
By SARAH RANKIN and DENISE LAVOIE RICHMOND, Va©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
61 Comments
GdTokyo
When you are arguing in favor of treason-weasel seditionists, you are losing (have lost) the argument.
plasticmonkey
So you'd be OK with a statue honoring Timothy McVeigh. Otherwise youngsters won't learn about the dangers of rightwing extremism?
NOMINATION
How about taking the stand down too? BLM and antifa graffiti is not really a good look if you want people to invest in your community.
Addfwyn
Takeda said it best here I think, we put statues up to honor and venerate a historical figure. Nobody looks at a statue of a figure they don't know and goes "Oh, that is who that is, I got it now!". They aren't educational objects. Maybe an accompanying plague, but you can leave that and get the same educational value.
Comparing it to book-burning isn't accurate because books inherently convey information. I will be on the conservative side if they start censoring Lee out of textbooks, because yes we should learn about the evil figures of the Civil war, but we don't need statues to do that.
plasticmonkey
Why should General Lee be honored? Please explain.
Jimizo
I’d go along with communities deciding this.
Then again, given how polarised things are, there will be all sorts of hysterics and shouts of ‘fascism’ from both sides. It certainly won’t solve the problem completely, but at least you could point to a democratic mandate
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Why is it an apple and oranges comparison?
bass4funk
I disagree, I think it is.
I could care less what Europe does or how they conduct and deal with their history, I care only for how the US conducts and honors its history as an American.
TheDalaiLamasBifocals
Nobody notices statues until they are taken down.
ArtistAtLarge
In a 1866 letter to fellow Confederate Gen. Thomas L. Rosser, Lee wrote, “As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated, my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt … would have the effect of … continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour.”
The Avenger
Why should the U.S. have a statue of an ACTUAL DEFINITIONAL traitor?
You don't see statues of Benedict Arnold anywhere........
The only historically accurate statue of Lee would be one of him surrendering.
Pukey2
raw beer:
So what did Buddha do that was so awful?
ulysses
I am sure the left is honored, sir.
How dear sir, arent they both war criminals and losers?
If American kids deserve to know their war criminals and losers why should the European ones be denied the same honor.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
lmao Not the same at all. You're arguing that statues of the people who fought to keep slaves, people who valued their right to own other people more than they valued US citizenship. Robert E. Lee and confederate leaders don't deserve to be respected.
No one is trying to erase history, we just want to get rid of a couple of ugly statues of traitors and losers. I fully support keeping the names and stories of the losers who lost the civil war in history books.
Raw Beer
I remember many years ago when the Taliban blew up a number of statues; this was very much frowned upon by the rest of humanity...
Peter14
Sad to see people still unable to view history without anger. How many centuries before the anger goes away? If there is still anger over the US civil war, I can only assume the anger over WWII ill carry on for another century at least.
Tom San
Erasing monuments of once-revered figures upsets an unspoken but long-prevailing consensus governing our decisions of whom to commemorate. Are we going to be like the ancient Egyptian pharaohs who destroyed and covered up past rulers’ names they didn't like? Are we any different than the Taliban who destroyed priceless antique statues a few years ago? They dishonored past people and their culture. Well yes, we are becoming very much like them. Erasing history is not the answer.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
How is it different, Bass? Hitler and Robert E. Lee both defended evil causes.
bass4funk
I feel the same about the left
Youre making an apples and oranges argument. Like I said, doesn’t matter of the left try to silence opposing viewpoints, the fact remains this will in some shape or form will have tragic results, that’s a fact.
Express sister
It was about slavery. No serious historian disputes this.
ulysses
Sir, your grasp on facts is astounding.
Wonder why they don't have statues of Hitler in Europe?
Tom San
With regards to my earlier comment, I'd like to say that, the traditional consensus is not an infallible guide to deciding whom to commemorate. In some cases, moreover, politics induces decision makers to ignore the traditional standards, but the traditional standard does help minimize political manipulation of history. Perhaps that is precisely why the standard is flouted by those who want to politicize everything.
Express sister
I will be very happy to statues of confederate traitors disappear.
If that is indeed the truth then I feel that leaving the statues should serve as a vital learning tool to educate kids what was done wrong and what was done right and allow them to form their own opinions, that’s how I was raised
Your parents sat you down in front of a statue and said, "look at that statue. Now you know everything about this person, their life, and the historical context of their life"? Weird. I would have taught you to read books, instead.
They did.
No. I hope this has been helpful.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
I'm sure white nationalists will disagree, but there is no disagreement amongst historians regarding the primary cause of the war. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how integral slavery was to the South.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech
Seems pretty clear to me.
sunfunbun
Ugh. Such a straw man. The reasoning of taking down the statue of Lee and equating it to taking down all statues makes zero argumentative sense.
The liberal/conservative ideal wasn't even a thing during the Civil War. It's complete ignorance to refer to Democrats as a way of arguing taking down the statue that represents repression and slavery of black people as a cause for a war.
The straw man trifecta. The fallacy might be beyond the thought of those who cannot critical think.
These straw man arguments have nothing to do with the subject of taking down the Lee statue. Pure folly and ridiculous words of fallacious arguments.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Ridiculous. Statues are put up to venerate people- not teach history. We both agree, Robert E. Lee, the Civil War, and the Confederacy should all be taught in school. Who is trying to forget history?
You pretty much already have that. The governor of Virginia ordered the statue down. The state Senator who represents the district where the statue was supports bringing the statue down. What is the problem?
That would be incredibly stupid. How were white nationalists harmed by MLK's adultery?
Tom San
Disagreement persists today. Many maintain that the primary cause of the war was the Southern states’ desire to preserve the institution of slavery. Others minimize slavery and point to other factors, such as taxation or the principle of States' Rights.
Paustovsky
From an artistic point of view, statues are stultifyingly dull.
Zaphod
Well, these activist onlookers will have to find new targets now. What is the endgame? A country where every image is erased, like Afghanistan?
Tom San
Today “progressives” vandalize statues of Columbus and Lee, allegedly because of actions motivated by racism. Who knows? Maybe tomorrow, a “white nationalist” majority might uproot monuments to Martin Luther King citing his adulteries and other indiscretions.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Slavery wasn't a "prevailing social practice" in the United States. That is why the South seceded.
bass4funk
It does, give it time and watch other statues disappear.
Ok, and who determines that? When you try and bury the past, you are doomed to repeat it it somewhere down the line in the future.
The fact that the left feel they have the right to uproot statues they don’t like? Wait for future ramifications
If that is indeed the truth then I feel that leaving the statues should serve as a vital learning tool to educate kids what was done wrong and what was done right and allow them to form their own opinions, that’s how I was raised and most Americans. The entire cancel culture is creating more homeschooling which has increased to over 5 million and growing and parents want their kids to know all of American history, the good, the bad and ugly side of it and not only just what the left wants.
I agree.
I disagree, they should remain and it should be given to the community and the State where they reside and the people should be polled and asked how they feel and if they want or think the statues should be removed.
Tom San
Since almost everyone conforms in most respects to prevailing social practices, disqualification for such conduct is necessarily arbitrary and driven more by politics than by merit. The fact that a particular vice prevailed in a person’s place and time becomes an excuse for stripping recognition from people whose lives contradict the propaganda of those in power.
Bob Fosse
Give Tucker a rest. Too much drama isn’t good for you.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
There is nothing new about this argument. Others may disagree, but I think you have to consider what they, historical figures, are most known. Yes, it is true that Jefferson and Washington had slaves. However, they're most known for being founding fathers of the US; Respectively known for leading the Continental Army and for writing the Constitution.
Lee, however, what is he known for? For defending slavery, for fighting for the South's right to own slaves. That is why he doesn't deserve a statue. We shouldn't lionize people who are most known for the evil they defended.
Tom San
With regards to the above, if we disqualified such historical figures because we NOW reject their society's practices, we'd commemorate few people indeed, and we'd deprive ourselves of many sources of inspiration.
Food for thought.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
No. Nothing you wrote has anything to do with taking down a statue of Robert E Lee.
We don't have statues of people to "teach the past." We put them up to venerate them. That is why you won't find any statues of Hitler in Germany. They don't need statues of him to learn what an evil monster is. Likewise, we don't need to venerate traitors like Lee. He doesn't deserve a statue.
Lol And my point is that has nothing to do with taking down a statue of Lee.
What does the fact that he was American have to do with anything? Do all Americans have statues of themselves? He needs a statue because he was American. Really? lol
No one wants to wipe history. We should teach about Lee, the Confederacy and slavery. They all belong in textbooks, not parks and on government property.
Express sister
I cannot believe I have to say this, but Mt. Rushmore is not a statue. It's a mountain with a sculpture carved into it.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
lol No it isn't. No one, in any position of power, wants to get rid of statues of Lincoln. Get real.
bass4funk
Wonder when they will take down lady Liberty, Lincoln, King, Mt. Rushmore and every other statue in the US., give it time, it’s coming.
Wakarimasen
The Night they drove old Dixie down.
Bob Fosse
I don’t see any logic in that statement.
bo
Why not put works of art in place and just forget people statues altogether!
GdTokyo
of the end for seditionist traitors and their “lost cause” myth.
Yrral
The confederacy has no legal standing,they were seditious trash
ulysses
Sir, do you mean Charlemagne fought in the Civil war?
Astounding.
You sir, deserve a Nobel!
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Which is why you're naturally all for getting rid of the statues, right?
Lmao how statues of Charlemagne are there in the US?
I agree, I've already forgotten who Lee is. I guess I'll remember when history repeats itself? Lolz
Wolfpack
This is just the beginning. There are still many more statues of racist and traitorous Democrat still standing.
FizzBit
Wow, so many historians on here. who knew?
can we get rid of all the statues of Charlemagne too? Better yet, let’s just wipe everyone’s brain of all history. Oh wait, TV works fine.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Who is Lee and what did he do? See guys, it's already happening; the statue came down and now I can't remember what he did. ;)
No it isn't.
The Avenger
This action is long overdue. The confederates were and are enemies of America. Why pay tribute to traitorous scum that tried to destroy America ?
Express sister
Cool
GdTokyo
So long Robbie.
Led a traitorous insurrection against your legally elected government and list.
Personally you may have been a complex figure, but you’ll no longer be a focal point to racists and insurrectionists.
plasticmonkey
Lee was a traitor to his country. He fought in order to uphold the enslavement of human beings.
Nothing about this man is worth commemorating.
YuriOtani
It now needs to be dumped in a deep spot in the Atlantic Ocean.