world

To phase out or phase down fossil fuels? That is the question at COP28 climate talks

47 Comments
By SETH BORENSTEIN and SIBI ARASU

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Copyright 2023 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.

©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.


47 Comments
Login to comment

To phase out fossil fuels means sending half the world into poverty, darkness and starvation. And there are powerful interests who want exactly that

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Ass

To phase out fossil fuels means sending half the world into poverty, darkness and starvation. And there are powerful interests who want exactly that

And yet, not phasing out fossil fuels will cause more poverty, darkness and starvation. And there are powerful interests don't care about that, as long as they keep making money.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

However, one bright spot is that China, the world's biggest carbon polluter, is now set to hit peak emissions in 2025, years earlier than pledged, and by 2035 will be down to about 2017 levels, Stockwell said.

Probably has something to do with population growth slowing from years of the one child policy.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

And yet, not phasing out fossil fuels will cause more poverty, darkness and starvation.

How?

And there are powerful interests don't care about that,

They shouldn’t listen to these hypocrites like Kerry and others talk this nutty crap rules they want to impose on us while violating their own rules.

as long as they keep making money.

Climate apologists definitely are.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

To phase out fossil fuels means sending half the world into poverty, darkness and starvation. And there are powerful interests who want exactly that

This is a bit of a hysterical reaction typical of rightwing North American podcast watching. Not helpful.

Having not watched such nonsense, the impression I get is that it will depend on how it’s done and how technology improves.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

This is a bit of a hysterical reaction typical of rightwing North American podcast watching. Not helpful. 

Nor is it helpful that the hypocrites want us to rely more on China faulty renewables while using fossil fuels to make them. Just astounding these people thankfully, more and more people are waking up to this scheme.

Having not watched such nonsense, the impression I get is that it will depend on how it’s done and how technology improves.

Which will take a very long time.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

bass4funk

And yet, not phasing out fossil fuels will cause more poverty, darkness and starvation.

How?

Climate change.

And there are powerful interests don't care about that,

They shouldn’t listen to these hypocrites like Kerry and others talk this nutty crap rules they want to impose on us while violating their own rules.

What rules is Kerry breaking? Also, what is nutty about cap rules? How would you deal with climate change?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Climate change.

And?

And there are powerful interests don't care about that,

I personally don’t. I’ll be glad when Trump or ANY Republican gets back to drilling and with a vengeance!

How would you deal with climate change?

Let the earth take care of itself, it’s down so for 5 billion years.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

I’m all for less pollution but climate changes.

The main driver is the sun not mankind.

Most people live in cities where shade is basically non existent.

Allowing nature into cities and making space for it would be one way to lessen the high temperatures that are being seen recently.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

bass4funk

Let the earth take care of itself, it’s down so for 5 billion years.

That doesn't solve the problem. That solution ends with Manhattan and most of Florida under water. The earth hasn't had man-made CO2 for 5 billion years.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

kurisupisu

I’m all for less pollution but climate changes.

The main driver is the sun not mankind.

Incorrect. Climate change is 100% man-made from excess CO2 in the atmosphere.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

That doesn't solve the problem.

5 billion of toughening it out tells me a different story.

That solution ends with Manhattan and most of Florida under water.

Wasn't California supposed to fall into the ocean 40 years ago?

The earth hasn't had man-made CO2 for 5 billion years.

No, but he had a meteor knock the crap out of it wiping almost all life and an ice age. So I think we will be fine.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Let every single one of those hypocrites (Kerry especially) lead by example and live THEIR OWN lives without any fossil fuel related products for at least 3 years FIRST! IF they can actually do that (phat chance!), then they can let others decide on how to live their own lives! These clowns are pushing for global communism. Pffft!

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

bass4funk

That doesn't solve the problem.

5 billion of toughening it out tells me a different story.

?

That solution ends with Manhattan and most of Florida under water.

Wasn't California supposed to fall into the ocean 40 years ago?

No.

The earth hasn't had man-made CO2 for 5 billion years.

No, but he had a meteor knock the crap out of it wiping almost all life and an ice age. So I think we will be fine.

You won't be.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Hervé L'Eisa

Let every single one of those hypocrites (Kerry especially) lead by example and live THEIR OWN lives without any fossil fuel related products for at least 3 years FIRST!

What Kerry does in his own life has almost no bearing on climate change, so that makes no sense.

IF they can actually do that (phat chance!), then they can let others decide on how to live their own lives!

People can work out how to live their own lives, but collectively we must work out how to solve the climate change catastrophe.

These clowns are pushing for global communism. Pffft!

No. They are pushing for ways to slow climate change.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

make it simple.

ask these politicians who wants to stop using fossil fuels-their planes,cars,any products made from fossil fuels.

give them 100% ban.

say next global warming meeting in country XY they have to come by feet as even horses may increase pollutions/remember Jacidna from NZ and cow farts checkes?/.no airplanes,no boats,no trains,no cars,no horse carts.

show to all of us good example.stop use electricity too.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

make it simple.

"simple" measures that consist on exaggerating things beyond any practical consideration are not solutions, are just lashing out against doing something for a very real problem that requires realistic solutions that improve things even if not 100%.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

That solution ends with Manhattan and most of Florida under water.

Well, California was supposed to go underwater 40 years ago. Huh...still there...

We had a meteor knock the crap out of it wiping almost all life and an ice age. So I think we will be fine.

You won't be.

Neither will you.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Eastman

make it simple.

ask these politicians who wants to stop using fossil fuels-their planes,cars,any products made from fossil fuels.

give them 100% ban.

Why? That would achieve nothing.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

bass4funk

That solution ends with Manhattan and most of Florida under water.

Well, California was supposed to go underwater 40 years ago. Huh...still there...

No, it wasn't.

We had a meteor knock the crap out of it wiping almost all life and an ice age. So I think we will be fine.

You won't be.

Neither will you.

I agree, unless we take action on climate change.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

That solution ends with Manhattan and most of Florida under water.

Well, California was supposed to go underwater 40 years ago. Huh...still there...

No, it wasn't.

Yes, since I was a kid they’ve been saying this.

https://calmatters.org/projects/engulfing-crisis-california-sea-level-rise/

You won't be.

Neither will you.

I agree, unless we take action on climate change.

Then do it with your own money leave the taxpayers alone, if you want to try EV all day that’s your choice, but I can’t wait for this administration to leave office so we can get right back to reopening the spigot and drill for oil and use all the natural resources we have.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

he had a meteor knock the crap out of it wiping almost all life and an ice age. So I think we will be fine.

You do understand that that meteor killed off the dinosaurs, the dominant genus at the time? Now we are the dominant ones and in line to get killed off, or rather, kill ourselves off.

Some tiny overlooked insect or marsupial might survive to evolve into the next major lifeforms to take over the earth, but homo sapiens will be toast. We will not be 'fine'.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Some tiny overlooked insect or marsupial might survive to evolve into the next major lifeforms to take over the earth, but homo sapiens will be toast. We will not be 'fine'.

I’m not worried, I don’t lose any sleep over, I do think that we will be fine, but I am just not for this crazy nonsense that we have to give up some things that we all need, and I wouldn’t be caught dead, driving easy, I have a hybrid and that’s as far as I’ll go.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

I’m not worried, I don’t lose any sleep over,

But that is an irrational position to take according to the evidence of the coming disasters, for anything important or urgent you can think there are people that are not worried about it.

 I do think that we will be fine

As long as people insist on not being worried this is not the case.

but I am just not for this crazy nonsense that we have to give up some things that we all need

Climate change means this is not something you can choose for much longer, nobody can. The billionaires of the world will be shielded from the worst, but for the rest of the population there is simply no way to avoid giving up a lot of things, in great part precisely because of people not willing to accept the reality and support the necessary measures.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

bass4funk

That solution ends with Manhattan and most of Florida under water.

Well, California was supposed to go underwater 40 years ago. Huh...still there...

No, it wasn't.

Yes, since I was a kid they’ve been saying this.

https://calmatters.org/projects/engulfing-crisis-california-sea-level-rise/

A slow-moving emergency is lapping at California’s shores— climate-driven sea-level rise that experts now predict could elevate the water in coastal areas up to 10 feet in just 70 years, gobbling up beachfront and overwhelming low-lying cities.

That's in 70 years, not 40 years ago. So you are out by 110 years.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

bass4funk

Some tiny overlooked insect or marsupial might survive to evolve into the next major lifeforms to take over the earth, but homo sapiens will be toast. We will not be 'fine'.

I’m not worried, I don’t lose any sleep over, I do think that we will be fine, but I am just not for this crazy nonsense that we have to give up some things that we all need, and I wouldn’t be caught dead, driving easy, I have a hybrid and that’s as far as I’ll go.

Well, I'm not worried for myself, because I'll be gone by then, but I have a daughter, and that's why I worry.

The thing is, we need to do something now for the future.

But human nature doesn't get energised into action by warnings of the future, so it is a known catastrophe that will happen, because of apathy. We need to be less apathetic.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Well, California was supposed to go underwater 40 years ago. Huh...still there...

No, it wasn't.

So the climate change people lied back then?? Unethical!

That's in 70 years, not 40 years ago. So you are out by 110 years.

So you proved my point that all of this is just a bunch of overdoing and a big hoopla for nothing for the most part. This is the reason why I don’t believe the hype.

Some tiny overlooked insect or marsupial might survive to evolve into the next major lifeforms to take over the earth, but homo sapiens will be toast. We will not be 'fine'.

I’m not worried, I don’t lose any sleep over, I do think that we will be fine, but I am just not for this crazy nonsense that we have to give up some things that we all need, and I wouldn’t be caught dead, driving easy, I have a hybrid and that’s as far as I’ll go.

Well, I'm not worried for myself, because I'll be gone by then, but I have a daughter, and that's why I worry. 

Exactly, I’m not worried either way, my kids can deal with it if they believe all of this stuff.

*The thing is, we need to do something now for the future.*

But human nature doesn't get energised into action by warnings of the future, so it is a known catastrophe that will happen, because of apathy. We need to be less apathetic.

Well, tbh, there are more things are of deep concern to and that’s making money.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

bass4funk

Well, California was supposed to go underwater 40 years ago. Huh...still there...

No, it wasn't.

So the climate change people lied back then?? Unethical!

The climate change people? Who are you talking about? I would doubt it was climate scientists, but get me a link and we can find out.

That's in 70 years, not 40 years ago. So you are out by 110 years.

So you proved my point that all of this is just a bunch of overdoing and a big hoopla for nothing for the most part. This is the reason why I don’t believe the hype.

Nope. It's you that is saying that California was supposed to be underwater by then, not me. And unless you can support the claim that climate scientists published papers saying that, the hyperbole is yours.

Exactly, I’m not worried either way, my kids can deal with it if they believe all of this stuff.

Well, it's not a matter of belief. Climate change is fact and will affect you even if you don't believe in it.

Well, tbh, there are more things are of deep concern to and that’s making money.

And therein lies the problem. Make money now and pay a much higher financial cost in the future.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Well, California was supposed to go underwater 40 years ago. Huh...still there...

No, it wasn't.

So the libs lied again.

The climate change people? Who are you talking about? I would doubt it was climate scientists, but get me a link and we can find out.

Then you believe them if you want, I don’t.

That's in 70 years, not 40 years ago. So you are out by 110 years.

So you proved my point that all of this is just a bunch of overdoing and a big hoopla for nothing for the most part. This is the reason why I don’t believe the hype.

Nope. It's you that is saying that California was supposed to be underwater by then,

Point is whether it’s true or not you and I won’t be here.

Well, it's not a matter of belief. Climate change is fact and will affect you even if you don't believe in it.

Ok, I don’t.

And therein lies the problemfuture.. Make money now and in the future.

So be it.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

bass4funk

Well, California was supposed to go underwater 40 years ago. Huh...still there...

No, it wasn't.

So the libs lied again.

It has nothing to do with libs. And nobody lied. Show me any scientific paper that made this prediction.

The climate change people? Who are you talking about? I would doubt it was climate scientists, but get me a link and we can find out.

Then you believe them if you want, I don’t.

Sure. Inconvenient facts are not something you like.

Well, it's not a matter of belief. Climate change is fact and will affect you even if you don't believe in it.

Ok, I don’t.

You may well believe that fire isn't hot, it won't help you if you put your hand in it.

It's quite ridiculous to frame facts as a matter of opinion.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

It has nothing to do with libs. And nobody lied. Show me any scientific paper that made this prediction.

You can do your own research, I did.

The climate change people? Who are you talking about?

The Climate change people.

Sure. Inconvenient facts are not something you like.

You don't know what I like, you don't know me.

Well, it's not a matter of belief. 

To me it is.

It's quite ridiculous to frame facts as a matter of opinion.

That is your opinion.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Many countries are going green all the time. I'm grossly sick and tired of seeing the US waging these stupid wars for oil and kowtowing to these oil dirtbags like the Saudi poobah. It's time for America to progress and catch up. Quit lollying around!

We can do, and better. We have to.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

starpunkToday 01:44 am JST

Many countries are going green all the time. I'm grossly sick and tired of seeing the US waging these stupid wars for oil and kowtowing to these oil dirtbags like the Saudi poobah. It's time for America to progress and catch up. Quit lollying around!

We can do, and better. We have to.

It's not really the oil. Our support for Israel is a tremendous liability in our ME foreign policy. Even now we are having to shoot down missiles from Yemen.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It's time for America to progress and catch up. Quit lollying around!

We can do, and better. We have to.

And then? We have made great strides to produce cleaner and more efficient, power sources, but the truth of the matter is We are not going to give up on oil, impossible.

It's not really the oil. Our support for Israel is a tremendous liability in our ME foreign policy.

Actually, a very helpful tremendous asset

Even now we are having to shoot down missiles from Yemen

Even better

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

bass4funkToday 02:41 am JST

It's time for America to progress and catch up. Quit lollying around!

We can do, and better. We have to.

And then? We have made great strides to produce cleaner and more efficient, power sources, but the truth of the matter is We are not going to give up on oil, impossible.

Nothing is impossible if you don't declare electric vehicles insufficiently manly.

It's not really the oil. Our support for Israel is a tremendous liability in our ME foreign policy.

Actually, a very helpful tremendous asset

Yeah, what is the asset? The apartheid? The billions we have to send in aid?

Even now we are having to shoot down missiles from Yemen

Even better

I thought you were all worried about depleting stocks of weapons for a war with China. Turns out you only want to use them to defend Israel for evangelical reasons I guess.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

bass4funk

It has nothing to do with libs. And nobody lied. Show me any scientific paper that made this prediction.

You can do your own research, I did.

Sure. That's what I'm asking for: the results of your own research. So, from your research, what scientific papers did you find that said California supposed to go under water 40 years ago?

It's time for America to progress and catch up. Quit lollying around!

We can do, and better. We have to.

And then? We have made great strides to produce cleaner and more efficient, power sources, but the truth of the matter is We are not going to give up on oil, impossible.

You do realise that there is a finite amount of fuel available, right? Better to get off it now when doing so will save our future.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

It has nothing to do with libs. And nobody lied.

it does

Show me any scientific paper that made this prediction.

I did

You can do your own research, I did.

Sure. That's what I'm asking for: the results of your own research. So, from your research, what scientific papers did you find that said California supposed to go under water 40 years ago?

Yes

It's time for America to progress and catch up. Quit lollying around!

Drill more.

You do realise that there is a finite amount of fuel available, right?

Yes, but for the next few hundred years, let’s use what we have.

Better to get off it now when doing so will *

In time, not now

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Unleaded gasoline

Biodiesel

Aviation fuel

Home heating oil

Engine lubricants

Road asphalt

Polyethylene

Polypropylene

Butane gas

Propane cylinders

Plastic bottles

Synthetic rubber tires

Paraffin candle wax

Roofing tar

Bitumen for roads

Styrofoam

PVC pipes

Methanol fuel

Urea fertilizer

Ammonia for agriculture

Nitrogen-based fertilizers

Solvent thinners

Laundry detergents

Polyester clothing

Nylon fabrics

Polyurethane foam

Cosmetics and toiletries

Pharmaceutical drugs

Pesticides and herbicides

Paints and coatings

Printing inks

Adhesive glues

Epoxy resins

Synthetic fibers in textiles

Wax for various products

There is no way we will stop drilling for crude oil, doing so would be the death of society? How would we function. There is no such thing as a EV 747 and we can’t brush our teeth with battery acid.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

bass4funkToday 05:05 am JST

There is no way we will stop drilling for crude oil, doing so would be the death of society?

Listing the things made from petrochemicals does not imply in any away that we can't reduce our usage. The things that can be replaced will be replaced and things that can't won't. A 50% reduction is still a 50% reduction.

Nothing is impossible if you don't d

eclare electric vehicles insufficiently manly.

Most people don’t want them, they’re super expensive, they don’t have the reach.

That's different than being impossible. Make gas sufficiently expensive and people will overcome their ridiculous insecurities.

Yeah, what is the asset? The apartheid? The billions we have to send in aid?

What are we getting from being allied to Israel? They can't even find out what Hamas is doing on territory they control, so intelligence obviously isn't it.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Listing the things made from petrochemicals does not imply in any away that we can't reduce our usage.

If you want to implement socialist policies and not allow people to use what we have then you might be in the wrong country.

The things that can be replaced will be replaced and things that can't won't. A 50% reduction is still a 50% reduction.

Ok, but that has nothing to do with now. So far and what listed there is nothing that we have that’s a solid alternative.

That's different than being impossible. Make gas sufficiently expensive and people will overcome their ridiculous insecurities.

Ok, so like a true socialist, limit Americans and how they go about their daily lives, starve them out of their rights to take care of their families even if they can’t afford or don’t want an EV.

What are we getting from being allied to Israel?

Access to the ME and the threats that come from there, threats from people that would like nothing more than to blow up the U.S..

The intel from them is vital information for the nation from the only true democracy in the ME.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

bass4funk

Show me any scientific paper that made this prediction.

I did

You didn't.

You do realise that there is a finite amount of fuel available, right?

Yes, but for the next few hundred years, let’s use what we have.

Typical conservative response. Pretend the problem doesn't exist and kick the can down the road for future generations to sort out.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Typical conservative response. Pretend the problem doesn't exist and kick the can down the road for future generations to sort out.

Not pretending, I just don’t see the doom or gloom like you do and you are not going to force me to see it your way. You have the right to believe and act as you like and so shall I.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

bass4funk

Typical conservative response. Pretend the problem doesn't exist and kick the can down the road for future generations to sort out.

Not pretending, I just don’t see the doom or gloom like you do and you are not going to force me to see it your way. You have the right to believe and act as you like and so shall I.

I would suggest reading some recent IPCC reports to be informed on the subject.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I would suggest reading some recent IPCC reports to be informed on the subject.

I did, but again, I listen and read other sources as well. So I’m well informed and that’s the reason why I feel the way I do.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

bass4funk

I would suggest reading some recent IPCC reports to be informed on the subject.

I did, but again, I listen and read other sources as well. So I’m well informed and that’s the reason why I feel the way I do.

So you would know that if the temperature rise exceeds 1.5 degrees extreme heat waves can be expected to happen every five years

And that sea levels can be expected to rise for the rest of the century because of irreversible change that has already happened.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

*So you would know that if the temperature rise exceeds 1.5 degrees extreme heat waves can be expected to happen every five years. *

Yes, assuming, not worried.

And that sea levels can be expected to rise for the rest of the century because of irreversible change that has already happened.

Assuming

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Exactly, I’m not worried either way, my kids can deal with it if they believe all of this stuff.

I hope other parents have a more considerate and forward thinking approach.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites