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Trade deal at risk as EU says UK must honor Brexit agreement

24 Comments
By JILL LAWLESS and RAF CASERT

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Give all of Ireland back to the Irish.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Give all of Ireland back to the Irish.

Would have happened years if the Irish weren’t religious nutters.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Whole articles and sections of the Northern Ireland Protocol have been removed/rewritten.

The bill in effect gives government and minster the legislative framework to frankly ignore some or most of the NI Protocol agreements or articles .

There is also rewording/rewriting of the state aid rules (article 10) in Northern Ireland, dismissing any reference to  EU law that relates to private, public or business disputes resolution.  

The bill in full.

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill......

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0177/20177.pdf

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Reunite Ireland and Scottish independence!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Supporters of Brexit and U.S. President Donald Trump demonstrate outside Europe House in London, Wednesday

Trump, a hero to white nationalists around the globe.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Give all of Ireland back to the Irish.

If the majority of people in NI want reunification, yes. If they don’t, no. A referendum in that country should decide it.

It’s not a question of ‘give’. It’s a question of ‘decide’.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It seems that some people don't understand that some Irish people don't want their region of Ireland to be merged with the Republic.

People who keep saying "Give Ireland back to the Irish" have a very simplistic view.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

It may never have occurred to the EU negotiating team, Johnson Government may not be bluffing. The Internal Market Bill has to be a political wake up call.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There will be no hard border on the island of Ireland. Not unless you're willing to see bombs going off in London again. Because that's what the hard cases will do. And the establishment will pay attention, unlike when Irish lives are lost in Belfast, Derry, Monaghan and Dublin. Nobody but the most demented want to see a return to that.

As for religion playing a part in the war - of course. It's little wonder Irish men and women turned to religion when their lands were stolen, their language all but wiped out and even then, priests were executed for saying mass in secret.

These days, you're as likely to find as many atheists as practicing Catholics or Church of Ireland. The Ireland of 50 years back has changed beyond recognition - it's biggest adherents to the RC would be Polish and Irish of African heritage. Of course, there's pockets in rural areas.

The EU won't allow a hard border, and neither will the US. Despite the current administration, Ireland has not forgotten the great hand of friendship to Ireland over the years - esp. in relation to the GFA.

A 32 county Republic is not a question of "if" but "when".

If the majority of people in NI want reunification, yes. If they don’t, no. A referendum in that country should decide it.

The referendum should take place in the island of Ireland - that's north and south. The 6 counties is an artificial statelet created by partition that was forced on the island. With respect; Britain doesn't get to dictate to Ireland anymore. That time is long over.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

People who keep saying "Give Ireland back to the Irish" have a very simplistic view.

As do people who think the British state has any business in Ireland. Or ever had.

Of course, a few self-hating Irish people (aka. "West Brits") will throw their lot in with the Unionists but then again, not all Unionists are certain their future lies with the UK.

Brexit, for all the stupidity involved, has set the inevitable in motion.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Toasted HereticToday  08:10 pm JST

With respect; Britain doesn't get to dictate to Ireland anymore. 

No one with an opinion worth respecting thinks it does.

Toasted HereticToday  08:10 pm JST

The referendum should take place in the island of Ireland - that's north and south. The 6 counties is an artificial statelet created by partition that was forced on the island.

Why? As long as there are Irish governments advocating unification I think we can take it as read that the electorate in the Republic are all for it. Artificial statelet or not, it's Northern Ireland that would cease to exist and its people who would find themselves as citizens of a different country. I would be all for that if they voted for it, but I think it's those people whose views should take precedence. Otherwise a few of them might contend that a united Ireland was something that was forced on them.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

it's Northern Ireland that would cease to exist and its people who would find themselves as citizens of a different country.

It would be the same country as it always was. And it would be inclusive, whatever one's religion/race/leanings.

Otherwise a few of them might contend that a united Ireland was something that was forced on them.

Maybe. But. The British forced a lot of unhappy situations upon peoples all over the world. And now that the days of the proud waving of the butcher's apron has ended, it's perhaps better to contemplate the tricolour - green, white and orange. This symbolises the peace (that we dearly want) between the communities, a peace that is achievable.

Boris Johnson's treachery puts the GFA in jeopardy. But if the UK can leave the EU & go its own way, good for them. Just do it right and let the ROI be a nation once again - that means the 6 counties leaving the UK.

And in case anyone is wondering, aspiring to a 32 country Republic is not terrorist ideology. Many Irish people would aspire to unification but absolutely condemn violence as a means to achieve it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

There will be no hard border on the island of Ireland. Not unless you're willing to see bombs going off in London again. Because that's what the hard cases will do. And the establishment will pay attention, unlike when Irish lives are lost in Belfast, Derry, Monaghan and Dublin. Nobody but the most demented want to see a return to that.

If Bojo backs the EU into a corner by abrogating the existing signed agreement you may very well see the re-establishment of a hard border between Ireland and UK controlled Northern Ireland. The English seem both stupid enough and arrogant enough to do this IMHO.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Reunite Ireland and Scottish independence!

Scotland has to consider that were it to gain independence EU membership may not be possible. For a nation to join the EU existing EU members must vote unanimously to allow the new entrant EU membership. I expect that Spain would never vote to allow Scotland to join. Why? Spain will do anything to deter Catalonian independence and greatly fears a newly independent Scotland would offer Catalonians a model to use to gain their own independence from Spain.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If the majority of people in NI want reunification, yes. If they don’t, no. A referendum in that country should decide it.

The referendum should take place in the island of Ireland - that's north and south. The 6 counties is an artificial statelet created by partition that was forced on the island. With respect; Britain doesn't get to dictate to Ireland anymore. That time is long over.

Interesting principle.

I take it you think it is correct that the future of Hong Kong should be decided by China and not by the people of Hong Kong. After all, Hong Kong was taken by the Brits.

Just making sure you’re being consistent.

It would be inclusive, whatever one’s religion/race/leanings

Speculative, particularly with the tribalism NI is noted for.

a few self-hating Irish people

Not very nice. Doesn’t sound very tolerant.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I expect that Spain would never vote to allow Scotland to join.

Spain has never voiced such an idea. The idea tends to be raised by those in Britain opposed to Scottish independence. But either way, with the UK out of the EU anyway, I'm not sure it would make much difference to Scottish people's opinions.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-spain-politics-scotland/spain-would-not-oppose-future-independent-scotland-rejoining-eu-minister-idUKKCN1NP25P

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The referendum should take place in the island of Ireland - that's north and south. The 6 counties is an artificial statelet created by partition that was forced on the island. 

That sounds a bit like the people of China being allowed to decide the future of Hong Kong.

I'd love to see a united Ireland, but I think it has to be up to the people in the six counties to decide if they want to rejoin. It should also be up to the people in the rest if Ireland whether they want to accept them or not.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

And now that the days of the proud waving of the butcher's apron has ended

Not in NI they haven’t.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The EU: “Britain, you have literally ZERO bargaining chips here. Just trade the deal. It’s the best you’re going to get.”

Britain: “Oh yeah?? Well what if I...uhh...Oh! What if I blatantly violate an international treaty! That will definitely make me look like an attractive and trustworthy trading partner to the rest of the world! Because as we all know, everyone loves working with a nation that makes it clear that rules only apply when I say they do!”

EU: “And this is why we’re not going to miss you...”

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

but I think it has to be up to the people in the six counties to decide if they want to rejoin. It should also be up to the people in the rest if Ireland whether they want to accept them or not.

Partition was forced upon Ireland.

It is up to Ireland, the 32 counties, to decide its future - independent of the UK. Just like it's up to the UK to leave the EU.

I take it you think it is correct that the future of Hong Kong should be decided by China and not by the people of Hong Kong. After all, Hong Kong was taken by the Brits.

A completely different situation. But then again, China and the British Empire were both colonisers.

And the colonised always fight back. Through peaceful means, hopefully.

Not very nice. Doesn’t sound very tolerant.

It's not. They're made up of the D4 crowd, disgraced right wing journalists like John Waters, Kevin Myers, Ruth Dudley Edwards and suchlike.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I take it you think it is correct that the future of Hong Kong should be decided by China and not by the people of Hong Kong. After all, Hong Kong was taken by the Brits.

A completely different situation.

How?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Not very nice. Doesn’t sound very tolerant.

It's not. They're made up of the D4 crowd, disgraced right wing journalists like John Waters, Kevin Myers, Ruth Dudley Edwards and suchlike.

So this encompasses the hundreds of thousands living in NI who favour being part of the UK?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So this encompasses the hundreds of thousands living in NI who favour being part of the UK?

It encompasses the 5 million people who live in the 32 counties.

Who can't be ignored anymore.

Unionists have nothing to worry about, only the sectarian types who murdered and intimidate communities.

How?

Ireland was raped and colonised by the British over the centuries, then there was the plantations and catholics and dissenting protestants had their rights taken away, and let's not forget the genocidal Cromwell. Then there was the penal laws and land confiscations.

Then partition was forced on the island.

Right up to the 1970s catholics in the 6 counties were discriminated against, hence the Civil Rights movement. Loyalists colluded with crown forces to murder innocent people. I mean, hell's bells, there's hundreds of books on the subject.

The EU and the US have shown infinite patience with the British on this, but if it erupts into violence again because of the idiocy of Westminster, well... we'll just have to wait and see.

No offence to the British people - its the government driving this disaster rally.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So this encompasses the hundreds of thousands living in NI who favour being part of the UK?

It encompasses the 5 million people who live in the 32 counties.

Not what I asked.

What is your opinion of the hundreds of thousands of people in NI who want to stay part of the UK?

How?

Ireland was raped and colonised by the British over the centuries, then there was the plantations and catholics and dissenting protestants had their rights taken away, and let's not forget the genocidal Cromwell. Then there was the penal laws and land confiscations. 

Then partition was forced on the island.

Right up to the 1970s catholics in the 6 counties were discriminated against, hence the Civil Rights movement. Loyalists colluded with crown forces to murder innocent people. I mean, hell's bells, there's hundreds of books on the subject. 

The EU and the US have shown infinite patience with the British on this, but if it erupts into violence again because of the idiocy of Westminster, well... we'll just have to wait and see.

No offence to the British people - its the government driving this disaster rally.

Not what I asked.

I asked why you support the right of the people of HK and not China as a whole to determine HK’s future, but feel that Ireland as a whole should determine NI’s future.

I’m sure you see the contradiction here.

You posted the situations are ‘completely different’. Please tell me why this is.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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