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Trump bid to overturn election stumbles as judge tosses Pennsylvania lawsuit

134 Comments

President Donald Trump's desperate bid to overturn the U.S. election was dealt a new setback on Saturday when a federal judge threw out his campaign's attempt to invalidate millions of votes in Pennsylvania.

U.S. District Court Judge Matthew Brann ruled that the Trump campaign's efforts to stop Pennsylvania officials from certifying Democrat Joe Biden as the winner in the state was"unsupported by evidence."

"This Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations," Brann wrote.

"In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state," he wrote.

The lawsuit sought to stop officials from certifying Biden's victory in the state, arguing that some counties wrongly allowed voters to fix errors on their mail ballots.

Republican Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania said Trump had "exhausted all plausible legal options" to challenge the result in Pennsylvania. He called on Trump to concede the election and congratulated Biden on his victory.

Few other Republicans in Congress have called on Trump to concede.

Trump's lawyers said they would appeal the ruling, with the hopes of quickly reaching the U.S. Supreme Court.

"We are disappointed we did not at least get the opportunity to present our evidence at a hearing. Unfortunately the censorship continues," Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis said in a statement.

For Trump to have any hope of overturning the election, he needs to reverse the outcome in Pennsylvania, which is scheduled to be certified by state officials on Monday.

Democrats said Saturday's scathing verdict was further proof that Trump's accusations of fraud are baseless.

"Our country will not tolerate Trump's attempt to reverse the results of an election that he decisively lost," Biden spokesman Michael Gwin said in a statement.

Giuliani, who made his first courtroom appearance in 30 years for a hearing in the case on Tuesday, has floated a variety of conspiracy theories as the Trump team alleged that the election was marred by widespread voter fraud.

Trump did not directly address the ruling as he re-aired familiar grievances on Twitter. "Fake ballots, dead people voting, no Republican Poll Watchers allowed, & more!" he wrote.

Election officials across the country say there was no widespread fraud, and Trump's own administration has called the election "the most secure in American history."

Trump's campaign and its allies have filed dozens of lawsuits across the country challenging the results.

They have had little success so far, and time is running out to build a case as some states have started formalizing results. In Pennsylvania, counties are due to file official results on Monday to the secretary of state, who will then certify the tallies. Biden leads Trump by more than 81,000 votes in the state.

Benjamin Geffen of the Public Interest Law Center, who was involved in the case, said Saturday's ruling showed Trump will not be able to overturn Biden's Pennsylvania victory in court.

"As far as litigation goes I believe this is the end of the line for them," he said.

UNPRECEDENTED EFFORT

Trump is seeking to invalidate or change the election results through recounts and direct pressure on lawmakers in several states. He would need to prevail in at least three states to prevent Biden from being sworn in as president on Jan 20 -- an unprecedented action.

In Michigan, Republicans wrote to state authorities on Saturday asking them to wait 14 days to certify Biden's victory to allow for an audit of ballots in Wayne County, which includes the majority-Black city of Detroit. The letter cited allegations of "irregularities" that have not been substantiated. Biden won 154,000 more votes than Trump in Michigan.

That effort faces long odds. A spokesperson for Michigan's top election authority said state law does not allow for audits before the vote is certified, which is due to take place on Monday. Allegations of widespread fraud have been found to be baseless, the spokesperson said.

Two leading Republican Michigan lawmakers who came to Washington at Trump's behest said after meeting him on Friday that they had no information that would change the outcome of the election in the state.

In Wisconsin, an official said poorly trained observers for the Trump campaign were slowing a partial recount by challenging every ballot and raising other objections.

"Observers are disruptive. They are asking question after question, telling the tabulators to stop, stop what they're doing and that is out of line, that's not acceptable," Milwaukee County Clerk George Christianson told reporters.

A manual recount and audit in Georgia confirmed Biden on Friday as the winner in the southern state, the first Democratic presidential candidate to win Georgia in nearly three decades.

The Trump campaign has two business days to request a recount in Georgia. Trump's legal team has also said it plans a lawsuit in the state, but has not provided specifics.

Trump's accusations have continued to inflame his hard-core Republican base.

Hundreds of supporters gathered at the statehouse in Atlanta on Saturday, with video posted online showing speakers denouncing the media for calling Biden the election winner, as well as state Republican leaders for certifying the results.

Police in riot gear were deployed to separate them from counterprotesters who gathered nearby.

Critics say Trump's refusal to concede have serious implications for national security and the fight against the coronavirus, which has killed nearly 255,000 Americans.

Biden, who has denounced Trump's attempt to reverse the election results as "totally irresponsible", spent Saturday meeting with transition advisers and attending church.

Trump took part in a virtual summit of the 20 biggest world economies and then went to play golf at his club in Sterling, Virginia.

© Thomson Reuters 2020.

©2020 GPlusMedia Inc.

134 Comments

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Fraud, fake, void, denounce, claim, refuse, and so on. This strategy by Donald and his last buddies is nothing but a disgrace, and an embarrassment!

35 ( +40 / -5 )

Trump should be tried for treason. Lock him up.

40 ( +46 / -6 )

Some Trump followers persist in pushing their main male's divisive messages, continue pitting their 'side' against those who oppose them.

In Trump's binary world it's Trump versus the US.

Republicans and other Trump followers have taken a stand to oppose the US.

Xi, Putin, Erdogan and other despots plus the global alt right pushing pro-authoritarian, anti-democracy applaud Trump and ilk.

26 ( +29 / -3 )

If Trump actually believes he "won" at this stage clearly he is not mentally fit to be serving right now. The 25th Amendment should be invoked. The country is in the middle of a massive health crisis. Inability to smoothly and quickly transition is a threat to the health of the people, and the economy and security of the nation. Not only has Trump failed to MAGA, he's broken America. And he continue to obstruct the healing.

26 ( +31 / -5 )

Out of sight, out of mind. Goodbye Trump.

20 ( +24 / -4 )

See what bullies are ready to do and how far they are willing to fight for their fragile ego. Meanwhile in the US, Covid exponentially spreads but that’s not the concern of Trump...

18 ( +22 / -4 )

The more of Trump’s evidence of voter fraud I see, the more I’m certain there was absolutely no voter fraud. I’m fairly certain that’s not how evidence is meant to work though.

21 ( +24 / -3 )

These judges know Trump loss, why they throw his claim out

14 ( +18 / -4 )

The votes that needed to be certified to win have been certified. It is over. BIden won.

21 ( +24 / -3 )

Trump is literally fighting for his freedom, as the minute he leaves the WH and becomes a private citizen, he is facing a grunt load of legal battles that he has managed to avoid as being the sitting president.

23 ( +26 / -3 )

Trump's policy: "If at first, you don't succeed, lie about it."

19 ( +23 / -4 )

There are a lot of low-information people out there who are avoiding the truth of what's happening in the U.S. right now who may be in for quite a surprise they will not be prepared for.

per Rasmussen Reports;

"BREAKING: Look who is now in charge of PA, WI, MI, and GA

Circuit Courts have been re-assigned

Effective November 20th, 2020, ordered persuant to Title 28, United States Code, Section 42

MI - Brett M. Kavanaugh

WI - Amy Coney Barrett

PA - Samual A. Alito

GA - Clarence Thomas"

I think certain publications have an obligation to keep their readers up to speed on what's happening. Curating the news based on personal agendas goes against the most basic journalistic codes and ethics.

-32 ( +6 / -38 )

bobToday  07:53 am JST

There are a lot of low-information people out there who are avoiding the truth of what's happening in the U.S. right now who may be in for quite a surprise they will not be prepared for.

per Rasmussen Reports;

Rasmussen. Total impartiality guaranteed, then.

"BREAKING: Look who is now in charge of PA, WI, MI, and GA

Circuit Courts have been re-assigned

Effective November 20th, 2020, ordered persuant to Title 28, United States Code, Section 42

MI - Brett M. Kavanaugh

WI - Amy Coney Barrett

PA - Samual A. Alito

GA - Clarence Thomas"

So you think that unlike the other Republican judges who have been throwing out Trump's cases recently, this lot will all bend to his will and deliver him the election?

I think certain publications have an obligation to keep their readers up to speed on what's happening. Curating the news based on personal agendas goes against the most basic journalistic codes and ethics.

Tell that to Newsmax. Wait a moment though - it's only media outlets that report stories you don't like that are going against journalistic codes and ethics, isn't it. No problem if they're all saying good stuff about President Trump, right?

26 ( +30 / -4 )

There aren’t any civil printable words to describe the actions of the Bone Spurs Misadministration's efforts to destroy democracy in the United States of America, and created chaos throughout the country and the democratic world.

“Make the USA Sane Again” before it’s too late. Those nations who are foes of the USA continue to salivate at the prospects.

22 ( +26 / -4 )

Conspiracies have gone wild based on Trump's false comments and claims.

22 ( +26 / -4 )

YubaruToday  07:25 am JST

Trump is literally fighting for his freedom, as the minute he leaves the WH and becomes a private citizen, he is facing a grunt load of legal battles that he has managed to avoid as being the sitting president.

It ought to be very entertaining. He won't have immunity from prosecution or juries stacked with obliging Republican Senators to bail him out, and it's increasingly looking like the only person he'll be able to get to represent him is Rudy Giuliani.

20 ( +22 / -2 )

There are a lot of low-information people out there who are avoiding the truth of what's happening in the U.S. 

There’s no doubt about that.

But putting your head in the sand or reading some kooky conspiracy site won’t change the result. Biden won.

23 ( +27 / -4 )

While the other leaders of G20 are discussing the covid-19 pandemic, at the exact time Trump is playing golf at his club.

22 ( +25 / -3 )

He lost but he can still be a winner. He can quickly make smart changes of economic, military and social mayhem before Jan 20 that will take 4 years for a senile old man to repair. Next election he can blame the failed state on Biden. And win. MAGA!

-34 ( +4 / -38 )

bobToday  08:27 am JST

"Rasmussen. Total impartiality guaranteed, then."

Simon Boston

Who?

14 ( +14 / -0 )

Next election he can blame the failed state on Biden. And win. MAGA!

So, he didn’t MAGA.

But he could MAGA if he spends the next 2 months breaking the country beyond repair.

To do so he will have to be the first Republican President to win a second non consecutive term. The first in 130 years. And the oldest ever elected President.

Then he will MAGA.

And you believe this?

19 ( +22 / -3 )

He lost but he can still be a winner. 

No. Trump can't. He's a loser. The American people have had their say. He's out.

He can quickly make smart changes of economic, military and social mayhem before Jan 20 t

Smart changes of social mayhem. eh? Yah, ruin America at all costs, this is the Trump way.

Biden. And win. MAGA!

This I agree with. Biden did win and he will do what Trump was incapable of.

17 ( +23 / -6 )

While the other leaders of G20 are discussing the covid-19 pandemic, at the exact time Trump is playing golf at his club.

That is beyond disgraceful. I have read about lousy and lazy monarchs before they were overthrown by the angry starving people, but even their levels of negligence did not reach the same as Trump's levels of non-administration.

17 ( +21 / -4 )

People predicting Trump will be president again are failing to see how much damage he has done to America, the people, and most consequentially for his re-election hopes... the Republicans. So many are aware now.

16 ( +21 / -5 )

Thing is that the Supreme Court ruled last week unanimously that electors can not be faithless and have to respect their state’s choice. Too bad Trumpy!

15 ( +20 / -5 )

There are a lot of low-information people out there who are avoiding the truth of what's happening in the U.S. right now who may be in for quite a surprise they will not be prepared for.

’May’ be in for a surprise? Sounds like a bit a of a desperate squeak compared to your statement that the walls were closing in on Biden the other day.

Losing the faith?

15 ( +21 / -6 )

I forget your name already, but you were comedy gold.

An absolute laughing stock.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

Trump is a moron, but Trump and treason is no oxymoron. On January 20th 2021 when the clock strikes 12 noon the FBI should also strike and take him away from his TV set in Trump Tower and into custody.

16 ( +22 / -6 )

There are a lot of low-information people out there who are avoiding the truth of what's happening in the U.S. right now who may be in for quite a surprise they will not be prepared for.

I completely agree; they are called Trump supporters.

17 ( +25 / -8 )

This guy Joe Biden is going to lead 330 million people? What a joke.

-27 ( +9 / -36 )

Simon Boston - leaving aside whether Rasmussen is liberal/conservative leaning, are you suggesting the above information is a lie?

It’s not a lie, it just doesn’t carry the significance you are implying it does.

10 ( +17 / -7 )

This guy Joe Biden is going to lead 330 million people? What a joke.

Couldn’t be worse than what’s there currently.

18 ( +26 / -8 )

This is a timeless pattern that I notice seems to happen to dictators all around the world.

First you dictate, then you deny, then you run, spend a few years hopping from safe haven to safe haven, eventually you run out of money, then you run out of sympathizers, then they catch up with you.

12 ( +19 / -7 )

This guy Joe Biden is going to lead 330 million people? What a joke.

Yeah, in terms of leadership he is clearly no match for the guy who has spent the past two weeks hiding in his bedroom after losing the election.

14 ( +22 / -8 )

In my opinion the US should go back to a pen and paper elections like Canada and many other developed countries. This is something that many voices on the left were calling for prior to 2020. It would be a shame if trust/distrust of voting machines becomes yet another dogmatic partisan issue with Democrats taking the side of machines.

While it might be tempting to laugh at Trump's claims about Hugo Chavez cronies rigging the voting machines, the real problem is that you can't easily prove him wrong. There is no federal agency overseeing, inspecting or auditing the proprietary source code of these machines, tabulators, optical scanners etc. Every state and county is signing their own contracts with these international vendors. As part of the multi-million dollar service contracts, employees of these companies are at the polling locations on election night ready to fix the machines or implement software patches if problems arise. It's the wild west. I would be surprised if foreign intelligence services weren't trying to take commercial control of these companies to potentially hack a critical election if it's in their national interest. The CIA has secretly operated similar commercial operations for decades, like Crypto AG. It's not a crazy conspiracy theory to acknowledge this serious risk.

-15 ( +9 / -24 )

While it might be tempting to laugh at Trump's claims about Hugo Chavez cronies rigging the voting machines, the real problem is that you can't easily prove him wrong. 

How about the fact that Hugo Chavez had been dead for 7 years? Is that enough of a "proof"?

18 ( +26 / -8 )

SlayerToday  08:55 am JST

This guy Joe Biden is going to lead 330 million people? What a joke.

Couldn't think of anything to say about the article that was supportive of Donald Trump?

14 ( +23 / -9 )

In my opinion the US should go back to a pen and paper elections like Canada and many other developed countries.

There are at least two main obstacles with that. First, enhanced coronavirus spreading, and second, the majority hasn’t ever seen pen and paper in their whole life yet. The current results show you that. lol

4 ( +13 / -9 )

Trump is a TRAITOR who is attempting to overturn the will of the people and steal the election!!!

12 ( +22 / -10 )

there's not much left to say. Trump is a narcissistic sociopath, and his supporters ha e a mental imbalance, a cognitive impairment, or a substantial e abuse issue.

To be fair, it could be a combination thereof.

9 ( +18 / -9 )

How about the fact that Hugo Chavez had been dead for 7 years? Is that enough of a "proof"?

Which one?

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Trump's PA lawsuit just got thrown out. Here's what the judge had to say:

"One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome (reversing an election), a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens. That has not happened,. Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence."

14 ( +20 / -6 )

The Trump campaign's latest tactic is to convince Republican-controlled legislatures in battleground states won by Biden to set aside the results and declare Trump the winner, according to three people familiar with the plan.

Has there ever been a more blatant attack on our democracy than this Trump and Repub led coup attempt?

Trying to invalidate the votes of hundreds of thousands of Americans - it's like some Russian plot from a Tom Clancy novel...

But it's real - it's happening - and it has to be stopped...

America's 250 year legacy of freedom and liberty depend on it...

14 ( +21 / -7 )

Trump's refusal to admit defeat and concede may appear mad, but there must surely be method in it: perhaps it's difficult to credit a person with his short attention span playing a long game, but fear of incarceration and losing his business empire can work wonders in concentrating a man's mind. His only goal now is to cut the deal of his life, for his life, to obtain a promise of immunity from prosecution from the incoming administration. DON'T DO IT, Mr President-elect!

7 ( +14 / -7 )

Dear Americans from both Dems n GOP, your biggest threat of your so called democracy is from the ONE sitting sulking in the WH.Thank you. Sincerely,

The World.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

A glimpse inside the poisoned minds of Trump supporters.

Why Republican voters say there’s ‘no way in hell’ Trump lost

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fraud-insight-idUSKBN2801D4

10 ( +17 / -7 )

Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence."

Trump’s lawyers should face sanctions for knowingly filing frivolous lawsuits that simply waste the courts’ precious time. Lawyers are ethically obligated to not do this.

13 ( +20 / -7 )

Amazing the number of freaks that want a Kim Jung Un family tyranny over a real democracy, as if in that dictatorship under Trump, they would somehow benefit! COVID19 is racing out of control and Trumpy can not do a SINGLE measure to slow the spread or tell people to even wear masks! Cult!

11 ( +17 / -6 )

I think the time for anger over Trump is over. It is s time for pity. He is not a well man and not mentality stable.

He should be hospitalised for his own good until he overcomes his delusions.

1 ( +11 / -10 )

Trump should be tried for treason. Lock him up.

As much as I dislike Donald Trump and pretty much everything he claims to stand for, you should read the definition of treason in the US Constitution. It is one of the very few crimes specifically addressed by the US Constitution and for good historical reasons. Article III, Section 3 of the US Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court."

19 USC 2381 reads:

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

Mr. Trump is likely guilty of many crimes and these will most likely be prosecuted in the State of New York, but as with the claims that Mr. Obama or Hillary Clinton were somehow guilty of treason, such calls are not based on any kind of knowledge of how treason is narrowly defined under US law.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

I think the time for anger over Trump is over. It is s time for pity.

I get it, but it's difficult to have pity for someone in a position of responsibility who held super-spreader events, dismissed the virus, mocked people for wearing masks, and oversaw the deaths of quarter of a million of his citizens.

What does he do? Go golfing.

He has no empathy, whatsoever.

Overturning the election is more important to him, than the dead and dying.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

Trump's PA lawsuit just got thrown out.

Part of me wishes there was actual widespread voter fraud and Trump still lost. It would be poetic justice for a career conman to be cheated at long last.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fraud-insight-idUSKBN2801D4

That was a frightening read.

“I just sent Fox News an email,” Fryar said, telling the network: “You’re the only news I’ve watched for the last six years, but I will not watch you anymore.”

There is the issue with a lot of conservatives. Consuming news from a single source produces low-information citizens.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

The US is facing the pandemic with so many infections and deaths on a daily basis and instead of accepting his election loss and deal with the task at hand, the “ Dicktator” is playing golf! Imagine the outcry if Obama or any other past President including Republican ones had done the same! Trump has become mentally unstable to run anything let alone run a country! Russia and other dictatorship countries are petting his back for damaging the integrity of the US elections and democracy as a whole!

8 ( +14 / -6 )

There is no federal agency overseeing, inspecting or auditing the proprietary source code of these machines, tabulators, optical scanners etc. 

Uh, yes there is. It is called the Federal Election Assistance Commission or EAC. They register qualified manufacturers, testing labs and certify all electronic voting equipment used in the US. "HAVA', the Help America Vote Act of 2002 mandates that EAC accredit voting system test laboratories and certify voting equipment, marking the first time the federal government has offered these services to the states. Participation by states in EAC's certification program is voluntary. The EAC's full accreditation and certification program became effective in January 2007.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

@Ah_so

I think the time for anger over Trump is over. It is s time for pity. He is not a well man and not mentality stable.

He should be hospitalised for his own good until he overcomes his delusions.

Although Trump was (is for a bit longer) a terrible President and certainly not fit for office I am not angry at him. He was elected, did what he thought was correct (which I disagree with) and is now being fired.

No matter what he does from here he cannot stay in office. He is challenging the results...fine (however I believe now he needs to acknowledge defeat).

I do not believe he will not resist leaving as he knows very well it would not end well for him and this action could truly (really) result in his prosecution and arrest and the act of sedition is a very serious crime in the United States. The military is sworn to uphold the Constitution (not a man) and they will execute orders based on the Constitution at this point in time. I can almost guarantee you that Trump's ability to do anything now is being minimized much more so than other lame duck President in th epast. This is due to the way he is acting and is brought on by him.

I do not pity him at all. He has lived a long life, traveled in luxury, lived in luxury, and has his family around him. I do not wish him harm I only want him to go away. I have been disgusted by his tweets since 2016 (I guess there is some history here about that) and instead of stopping when he should they just got worse and more embarrassing.

Just today (or yesterday?) he showed his true selfishness and fully and completely demonstrated he does not care about Americans or their struggles by failing to take time to attend the G20 summit about Covid. He golfed instead?!?! Come on...even his most ardent supporters must be disgusted by this.

I am glad to see Trump going. Yes; I have my reservations about President Elect Biden however I believe he has stated that he does not wish to prosecute Trump and just move forward on trying to bring the country together. He has my full support (and respect for taking the high road) until he proves otherwise.

As for Trump; as stated before - I only hope he just goes away. And for those that think he will run in 2024 (or even his offispring) - forget about it.......never will happen.

-1 ( +12 / -13 )

I am sorry for the error in my post. I typed "I do not believe he will not resist leaving" but it should read "I do not believe he will resist leaving"....big difference in meaning. I intended to state the latter.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

@Tokyo-Engr

Nice post. Intelligent and reasoned.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

Fox News is reporting harassment by Trump supporters in the Wisconsin recount.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/wisconsin-officials-trump-observers-obstructing-recount

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Dear Americans from both Dems n GOP, your biggest threat of your so called democracy is from the ONE sitting sulking in the WH.Thank you. Sincerely,

The World.

BS

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

He is going to prison. Prosecutors at the DOJ know a felon when they see one. They are hungry sharks and Trump is a bleeding seal.

Alexa, buy all the popcorn!

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Now that this four-year nightmare will soon be over, it's interesting to look back on the Trump administration and see the toll it took on America...

We already know about the over 250K deaths (and climbing) from a botched and incompetent COVID response, the cratered economy and historic unemployment, the highest budget deficit ever...but the worst has to be a fractured and divided America - Trump's hate-filled and corrosive rhetoric driving Americans apart...

And our adversaries?

Russia continued its expansion and solidified its gains in Crimea and Ukraine - and assassinating and poisoning dissidents abroad - while the leader of the free world said and did nothing...

China further grew its influence by completing trade agreements with Asian countries after the US backed out. It dominated world institutions after the US withdrew. Most significantly, it completed its takeover of Hong Kong flouting previous agreements that protected its freedoms and the US did nothing....

North Korea developed and fielded an ICBM that can reach the US and Iran furthered its path to a nuclear weapon...

NATO weathered but was weakened by US indifference and overt criticism...

And people throughout the world who live under tyrants and dictators - who would look to the US as a leader of democracy and freedom......were ignored....

The uncountable harm to the US from these past four years will take decades, if longer, to repair...

9 ( +13 / -4 )

One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome (reversing an election), a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens. That has not happened,. Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence.

So the judge wiped his backside with it.

Fancy that.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

@lincolnman. Yes, much of what you say is true. So the question is;

Do we waste time, money, and our finite amount of energy to be angry with Trump?

Or; do we roll up our sleeves and get to work fixing things from day one. As an old engineer that is the path I would prefer.

Anger and trying to extract some type of “revenge” will not solve one of the very valid points you identified. It will only divert resources and detract from fixing them.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

BS

This wreckless "leader" saw to the deaths of quarter of a million citizens, endangered lives with his endorsement of the Israeli land grabs, assassinated a former ally, ignored the murder of a Washington Post journalist, dumped on perhaps the most important climate treaty of our age and tried to destroy the Iran deal.

No fan of Biden, but anything is better than the current incumbent. The one you recently claimed will shock the world again with another win.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

He can quickly make smart changes of economic, military and social mayhem before Jan 20.

MAGA “patriot”.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@lincolnman. Yes, much of what you say is true. So the question is;

Do we waste time, money, and our finite amount of energy to be angry with Trump?

Or; do we roll up our sleeves and get to work fixing things from day one. As an old engineer that is the path I would prefer.

Anger and trying to extract some type of “revenge” will not solve one of the very valid points you identified. It will only divert resources and detract from fixing them.

My personal opinion only but I don't support needless investigations and time-wasting, showboating hearings...

But crimes and misconduct must be legitimately investigated - and individuals who avoided being indicted by the cloak of the Presidency must be held accountable.

All the current DOJ investigations of the Trump Org and tax fraud must continue - to include any other criminal activity identified.

And "Individual-1" should be be indicted as a "co-conspirator" as outlined by the judge in the illegal payoff case.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@Desert Tortoise

No. A voluntary process where manufactures pay to have their hardware given a cursory inspection to be put on a list of approved vendors (which many states do not even participate in) is hardly federal oversight or audit of the integrity of these machines or the regular software updates they receive.

I suspect there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise, so I will just link you to some of the leftwing sources that are making the same claims. The lack of transparency, security and reliability associated with electronic voting machines is something the Democrats have been raising for years. Just because Donald Trump now shares these concerns when it's in his interest doesn't mean you have to reflexively take the opposite position.

The Market for Voting Machines Is Broken. This Company Has Thrived in It.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-market-for-voting-machines-is-broken-this-company-has-thrived-in-it

Feds Don't Regulate Election Equipment, So States Are On Their Own

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2019/07/10/feds-dont-regulate-election-equipment-so-states-are-on-their-own

'They think they are above the law': the firms that own America's voting system

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/22/us-voting-machine-private-companies-voter-registration

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

There will be a reckoning these 4 years of lies, deceit, criminal acts and subversion of democracy. If Trump or his ilk think he's going to shuffle off to his golf course untouched for what they've done, they are sorely mistaken.

I watched him lie cheat and steal. I watched him suck up to our enemies and insult our allies. I watched him doddle while 255k and counting Americans died from a preventable virus. I watched him use the power of his office to undermine the basis of our democracy on Twitter no less. While America burns, he golfs.

Oh yes, there will be reckoning

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The out of this world nonsense being kicked around by Trump supporters and even newly elected senators linked to QAnon. What they believe is beyond the pale of anything in recent years. They suck it up and blow it out at the side-of-road places or outside counting stations. One nutter screaming "wat's ya IQ then!" at a democrat supporter.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Voting machines used in 28 states but only the flipped states by Biden used corrupted ones? Don't think so.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

short version: You get nothing, you lose, good day sir!

8 ( +8 / -0 )

There will be a reckoning these 4 years of lies, deceit, criminal acts and subversion of democracy. 

Agreed. Democracy went dark in the Washington Posts newsroom.

-19 ( +1 / -20 )

Tokyo-Engr:. Anger and trying to extract some type of “revenge” will not solve one of the very valid points you identified.

Justice isn't a form of revenge. I agree that if there's nothing to go after but petty, small things then Biden should move on.

But if there are bigger things out there, Trump should be prosecuted like any other citizen. Lord knows he will just keep doing it of he skates free yet again.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

The out of this world nonsense being kicked around by Trump supporters and even newly elected senators linked to QAnon. What they believe is beyond the pale of anything in recent years.

Yeah, thought I'd seen it all but elsewhere, in social media, there's a lot of straight up mad (really, really mad) stuff filtering through. It's like experiencing reality break down and form parallel universes.

How does that genie go back in the bottle and is Biden up for it?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Georgia used a counting machine. A red state. Hand recount because the voting margins were too narrow. The recount produced the same figures has the machine count. Declared Biden the winner. Trump still claims he was robbed.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

@Lincolnman

Regarding the payoff case I thought Cohen has already pleaded guilty? is there another individual I am not aware of.

Regarding his taxes I think action should be taken as would be for any other American citizen (the IRS can be pretty harsh).

Regardless there is a tremendous amount of hate directed at Trump. I can see that from reading comments and also I hear it when talking to some people.

Personally when I was in my 20s I allowed such heavy emotions to guide some of my decisions and I made a couple of big mistakes. I am older so I have the opinion that it is better to just move on (it seems the President Elect is taking this route also) is in my past experience allowing emotion to dictate actions made situations worse in some cases. Ironically it is one of the things that I believe makes Trump so awful at his current job.

In the end you and I agree.

I hope Americans can also take this path and will continue to encourage this. Overreacting due to the severe emotions related to Trump may have some pretty bad unintended consequences.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Trump. Soon, he will head for the golf course and send out streams of looney tweets. And disappear into one of his baroque man caves. A fitting end to a junta that fortunately was so disorganized, the harm was contained. At present the face of the challenge to the apparent loss is a quite mad Giuliani. Which will end as one surmises, badly. What is amazing, the number of votes for Trump. It reflects that the USA is a failed state.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The Washington Post has won multiple Pulitzer prizes. Triumphs told in excess of 20k lies, committed multiple felonies and presided over the deaths of 255k Americans and counting.

They are only equivalent in the fever dreams of the cognitively impaired, the mentally defective, and the substance addicted.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

He's too stupid to know when he's embarrassing himself. He's been that way for decades. It's what binds him to his supporters.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Trump's Giuliani is no Gandalf!

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I have long attributed the dedication on Trump supporters’ enthusiasm for him over these last four years as the ‘sunk cost’ fallacy (look it up) in practice.

While his supporters may not have invested money in him (although many have), they have invested their hearts and souls in supporting him. They can’t let go of their support as doin so would acknowledge their original support of him was wrong or misplaced.

Whenever he sinks lower, they will still invest more in him: their faith in him keeps them going.

Even when he or any of his cronies lie outrageously or cook up conspiracy plots (take a look at the 1964 article “The Paranoid Style in American Politics” by Richard Hofstadter for historical context) they will lap it up as it seemingly gives credence to their beliefs and decisions. They keep buying into it, no matter what, just so long as it reaffirms their original choice to support him.

It takes a big person to admit they were wrong. And most of his supporters can’t.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Every state and county is signing their own contracts with these international vendors.

So I did some more digging and every one of the firms who make voting systems certified by the Election Assistance Commission is US based and owned. No foreign owned firms are involved. Dominion was originally founded in that great enemy of America, Canada, but it moved it's headquarters to Colorado and is privately held there.

https://www.eac.gov/voting-equipment/certified-voting-systems

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The out of this world nonsense being kicked around by Trump supporters and even newly elected senators linked to QAnon. What they believe is beyond the pale of anything in recent years.

Yeah, thought I'd seen it all but elsewhere, in social media, there's a lot of straight up mad (really, really mad) stuff filtering through. It's like experiencing reality break down and form parallel universes.

How does that genie go back in the bottle and is Biden up for it?

This is a real worry. Conspiracy theories have been around since we have been pattern-seeking mammals, but they have now been mainstreamed by a US president. What’s more worrying is that a conspiracy theory, birtherism, helped launch Trump’s 2016 campaign. This kind of crap sells among deplorables and QAnon now has one of their own disgracing the US Legislature.

I don’t see what Biden or anyone else can do about this in the short term. In the long term, I believe neuroscience will uncover more about this and other pathologies.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Some Trump followers persist in pushing their main male's divisive messages, continue pitting their 'side' against those who oppose them. 

Yes, Democrats would, ask Stacy Abrahams.

In Trump's binary world it's Trump versus the US. 

Now, it’s Trump exercising his full constitutional legal right, even if the Dems and liberals don’t like it.

Republicans and other Trump followers have taken a stand to oppose the US. 

Quite the opposite, but if Dems are so honest why don’t they want to be transparent and have an investigation to appease Trump and to show Dems played by the rules?

Xi, Putin, Erdogan and other despots plus the global alt right pushing pro-authoritarian, anti-democracy applaud Trump and ilk.

Well, Xi is ecstatic that’s for sure. A compliant Biden is the best holiday gift they could ask for.

-19 ( +3 / -22 )

Quite the opposite, but if Dems are so honest why don’t they want to be transparent and have an investigation to appease Trump and to show Dems played by the rules?

It’s a defensible point. Transparency is vital in a functioning democracy. There was and should have been a recount in Georgia.

So, tell us again why you felt Trump shouldn’t release his tax returns.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Quite the opposite, but if Dems are so honest why don’t they want to be transparent and have an investigation to appease Trump and to show Dems played by the rules?

What is there to investigate? If I go to a store that hasn't been burglarized, do police have to investigate to show that it wasn't burglarized? How crazy is that?

In any case, the proof that there was no fraud is clear. Trump and his lawyers can say whatever they want and make any claims of fraud in front of TV cameras. But they know that once they are in front of a court of law and under oath, they can't lie. And thus, they say that it isn't a fraud case. Case closed. They themselves admit that there isn't fraud.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Trump and his lawyers only want to rile his base and plant the seeds of doubt for future elections. From now on, people will always question the results of future elections because of his baseless claims, even though there is no proof for it. How much do you want to bet that if Trump runs again in the future, and when he loses, claims of fraud will be brought up again. I can guarantee it.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

bass4funk

Quite the opposite, but if Dems are so honest why don’t they want to be transparent and have an investigation to appease Trump and to show Dems played by the rules?

The evidence is provided by the accuser, not by the accused. To date, 30 court cases dismissed and not a single iota of real evidence from Trump sending his Rudy into a sea of melting hair dye.

20 ( +22 / -2 )

Regarding the payoff case I thought Cohen has already pleaded guilty? is there another individual I am not aware of.

In addition to pleading guilty to tax evasion, financial fraud and campaign finance violations, in his case carrying out the hush money payments to two different porn stars. However since Mr. Trump allegedly ordered the hush money payments to be made is is likewise eligible to be prosecuted for campaign finance crimes. In addition the New York AG and Manhattan District Attorney are investigating Mr. Trump and possibly other family members for tax fraud, bank fraud, real estate fraud and falsification of documents. In addition just today it was revealed the state of New York is looking at payments made to Ivanka Trump for supposed consulting services while she was also a paid employee of the Trump company. The payments were used to reduce the tax obligation of the Trump organization but may have been nothing more than moving money around within the company to hide it from the tax man.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

To add, I remember during Trump's impeachment trial, that Republican senators made statements that the people should decide with their vote and that their voices should be heard. Also, they said that they would abide by any decision that the people made. Yet here we are, and it seems that they (or most of them) have gone back on their word and are taking the voice of the people away. The GOP now wants to let the courts decide; not the people. What a bunch of hypocrites.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

The evidence is provided by the accuser, not by the accused. To date, 30 court cases dismissed

And there’s always the Supreme Court, until then, it’s not over.

and not a single iota of real evidence

I agree, I want to see hard “tangible”evidence, but I do believe these statements from these sworn affidavits, but yes, we do need verifiable proof.

from Trump sending his Rudy into a sea of melting hair dye.

What?

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

The Judicial branch is not going to grant Trump what the majority of the electorate denied him.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

bass4funk

The evidence is provided by the accuser, not by the accused. To date, 30 court cases dismissed

And there’s always the Supreme Court, until then, it’s not over.

The SC does not take every case. They also require evidence and not heresy.

What?

Guess you missed the Rudy press conference with his hair dye running down his face. Facepalm

12 ( +13 / -1 )

This guy Joe Biden is going to lead 330 million people?

Yup. Again.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The SC does not take every case, considering the magnitude surrounding credible accusations and affidavits.

They will this case more than likely

They also require evidence and not heresy. 

...as well, but they will hear the arguments.

Guess you missed the Rudy press conference with his hair dye running down his face. Facepalm

What?

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

Why Republican voters say there’s ‘no way in hell’ Trump lost

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fraud-insight-idUSKBN2801D4

I've been predicting it for months, and in that article there's a Trump supporter stating that a civil war is coming:

Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly. They believe Trump’s stream of election-fraud allegations and say they’re preparing for the possibility of a “civil war” with the American political left.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

They will this case more than likely

But you predicted that Trump wouldn't win the first time, and would the second. You're not very good at predicting what is 'more than likely' to happen.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Sorry, there was a case of fraud that has been proven. In Pennsylvania, a Republican voter tried to vote for his dead mother.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-supporter-arrested-requesting-absentee-234948543.html

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/10/busted-pennsylvania-republican-arrested-after-trying-to-cast-mail-in-ballot-for-his-mother/

7 ( +7 / -0 )

I am enjoying these endless losses for trump.

If one big loss at elections wasn’t humiliation enough, all these losses at the courts, Rudy’s antics make tump’s losses a complete annihilation.!!!!

13 ( +13 / -0 )

This:

And there’s always the Supreme Court, until then, it’s not over.

I wrote a week or so ago that this type of thinking will set the standard for every election in the US from now on - a deep, underlying mistrust of the electoral systems.

But it’s more than that - it’s a deep, underlying mistrust of anyone in positions of power that oversee these systems, and a mistrust that emerges from one side when it loses.

The Reuters article included people saying ‘I can’t believe Biden got that many votes.’ When Trump won in 2016, I couldn’t believe that nor could my US family and friends. But none of said that it was a hoax or a conspiracy, and neither did they take up arms because Trump was elected. They were unhappy, disgruntled, but accepted that the people had - very unexpectedly - spoken and voted for someone they could not believe such a large percentage of the population would accept.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

He can quickly make smart changes of economic, military and social mayhem before Jan 20 t

Using Twitter to make his changes via a smartphone doesn’t mean that what he does is necessarily smart. You see, it’s the device that is « smart ». Anyway you probably won’t get it.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Sorry, there was a case of fraud that has been proven. In Pennsylvania, a Republican voter tried to vote for his dead mother.

then all the Trump votes should be dismissed.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

For someone so excited about a SCOTUS challenge, Bass doesn’t seem to know much about how it actually works.

First of all, SCOTUS doesn’t hear appeals of fact: those are all dealt with at the trial court level. There has to be an issue of constitutional law. In this “case” - and i use that term very loosely - there really isn’t.

Furthermore, there usually is a level of disagreement among the lower courts. There is none. No conspiracy, no fraud, none. Trump has filed 30+ law suits and has lost all of them.

In order to hear a case, SCOTUS has an informal “Rule of 4”. 4 members have to agree that there is a valid constitutional issue. As CJ Roberts cares deeply about the legitimacy of the court and 6 of the other 8 probably think this issue is the equivalent of a flaming bag of poo, SCOTUS could well let the lower courts’ ruling stand without comment.

If they did hear the case, The idea that the vote was so flawed, that the only remedy is to disenfranchise millions of voters and let the legislators decide is so farcical as to beggar belief.

There are not 5 votes for overthrowing the will of the people and installing an obvious sociopath for another term so that he can avoid the consequences of his criminal behavior.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

then all the Trump votes should be dismissed

Look, liberals can try and suppress opposing viewpoints all they want, we know what they’re trying to do, so the only thing that we can can do is hope pushes this as long as he can, will he get the election overturned, probably not and it’s not about that, Trump definitely has 2024 to look forward to and now we know the game Dems play so Trump and the GOP will be better prepared next round, but from the looks of it as it stands, Trump will lose the WH and the Dems losing big in the House is a pretty good indicator that they’ll lose it in 2021 so we don’t and won’t riot and loot, we got time and at this point gaining the House and Keeping the Senate to keep Biden and the radicals in check is more than enough one could ask for.

-18 ( +2 / -20 )

If Trump takes America by stealing the election via the supreme court, America will deserve what it gets.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Pointing out the factual and logical fallacies of Trump’s cult - They are not conservatives in any sense of the word - is hardly “suppressing opposing views.”.

And being mercilessly fact checked has yet to stop them from spreading their obvious falsehoods.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I agree, I want to see hard “tangible”evidence, but I do believe these statements from these sworn affidavits, but yes, we do need verifiable proof.

and as a Judge recently ruled its up to the lawyers to sort the false affidavits from the credible ones.

that means affidavits still need to be backed with proof so far team Trump cant find any proof to back up the affidavits claims

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_get06-tgo

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Lol, Trump 2024? No chance. Had he quit with the tantrum and baseless lies I would have said maybe. But not now. I was one who thought the Dems going with Biden was a mistake. Happy to be wrong about that.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

President in Georgia to have a recount. More to come.

they already did a recount the result didnt change Biden still won, Trumps got to flip more than just Georgia to win the election, goodluck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoQ-kxHOOeY

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The democrats don't need to do anything.

No, they don’t, given they lost 11 House seats they should carry on, the Squad will help the GOP and Trump.

Trump or republican leaders who have actual real evidence of widespread frauds need to present it. Simple really!

But the SC will still hear their arguments, not worried

The democrats are not preventing any investigations.

Yes, they are

https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/opinion/thiessen-democrats-should-stop-criticizing-investigations/article_c14abbd3-06a3-53bc-8098-0a87f19dbe05.html

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

For the record, Trump MUST be tried for what he has attempted to do in violation of his oath of office. Why? Because not doing so means someone else can try the same method and it just might work eventually. As well as showing the people of the US that our government still stands for JUSTICE, and anyone who dares to violate the will of the people of the US must be held accountable for their actions. No one is above the law in the US.

There is no, "forgive and forget" with this, because it sets the opportunity for it to happen again and become much worse.... and may succeed.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Seems like that it already happened.

I know not seems.

These are simply baseless attacks on the constitutional rights of voters coupled with a doom and gloom machine. Making America Great Again. The point of these challenges and Trump's presidency is clear, he wants to Make America White Again.

GoP voters fawn over the "whiteness" of Russia, which disregards the majority of their population and the history of the GoP opposing Russia.

Waiting for the Georgia election on Jan 5th. Hoping Stacy Abrams pulls off another big win. She hasn't stopped working, and Trump supporters should fear her.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Well, there is more than enough and again, if Democrats were transparent they would welcome an investigation and seeing that they don’t and want to rush this is a clear indicator they could care less about transparency.

Republicans are the one's who need to be transparent and truthful. The truth is Trump lost the election. Trump supporters should just deal with it and quit lying about the election! It's pathetic the Republicans are listening to the con man, as if alternative facts are a real thing. They're not. They're just lies.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

bass4funk

State allows the President in Georgia to have a recount. More to come.

You are wrong and behind with events.

Trump had nothing to do with the Georgia recount which only happened because the final results were less than 1% between winner and loser so according to state law, a recount was required.

5 millions votes hand counted and the result came out the same so the state declared Biden the winner.

Game over!

10 ( +12 / -2 )

But the SC will still hear their arguments, not worried

They haven't yet.

In fact, the S.Ct. is sitting on several cases that could consider thorny issues of the immunity of a sitting president to subpoenas and lawsuits. They would rather wait until Jan. 21st when they don't have to make a decision.

If the S.Ct. was the magic bullet, they would have already carried Trump's water on these other cases. Not to mention that there is no way they would accept a case that didn't need to be decided much less heard.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

I have never witnessed in my lifetime a more inept, dysfunctional, lying, cheating US president that many believe belongs behind bars. The worst President in US history. He should be barred from running again due to the damage and deaths he is responsible for already. His family members both direct and indirect should also be barred from holding any government position on a Federal or State level as they are all accomplices to Trumps crimes against America.

Biden's first executive order should be to seize and jail Trump, freeze all his personal and family assets, until all state and federal cases against him have been completed and then his total Jail term calculated.

Cant be done, but it is what he deserves.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

bass4funk

But the SC will still hear their arguments, not worried

and what will be their arguments based on the constitution only.

Game, set and match.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

You are wrong and behind with events.

That’s an opinion shared by half the country, the other half disputes that.

Trump had nothing to do with the Georgia recount which only happened because the final results were less than 1% between winner and loser so according to state law, a recount was required.

We know that and that’s not and never was the argument, try again.

5 millions votes hand counted and the result came out the same so the state declared Biden the winner.

ROFL...again, don’t believe that for a multitude of reasons.

-17 ( +1 / -18 )

They haven't yet.

Trump has time, no rush.

and what will be their arguments based on the constitution only.

I don’t know, don’t represent Trump, not a lawyer or judge. Nothing is set yet.

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

ROFL...again, don’t believe that for a multitude of reasons.

you do know yes that the officials in charge of the Georgia vote counting are republicans? Are they corrupt too?

9 ( +11 / -2 )

bass4funkToday  02:17 pm JST

But the SC will still hear their arguments, not worried

Hear them out and then throw them out. Not much point in presenting arguments in any court without the evidence to back them up.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

I don’t know, don’t represent Trump, not a lawyer or judge. 

This is painfully obvious, and why you incorrectly believe SCOTUS will take up any of Trump’s cases that have been supported by zero evidence.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Hear them out and then throw them out

It’s highly unlikely scotus will even agree to hear any of the cases given they have all been tossed for lack of evidence. Providing enough evidence to initiate an actual trial is not a terribly difficult standard to get passed.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Its time for trump to give up on his electoral delusions and start focusing on the investigations he is under.

The presidential protection will be over in January and he’ll be just another shady tax dodging businessman after that!!!!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Not really, just offering opposing points of view, not subscribing to the liberal echo chamber one.

I'm all for points of view, how to interpret facts, etc., but you are putting out broadsides of points of views that show no regard to facts. Sure, I politely agree with Mitch McConnell that Trump shouldn't abandon legal rights, but his attempts are without merit and are intended to abandon the legal rights of voters.

You only have Debunked Talking Points

As Trump said in 2016, If I win I win, If I lost it was because of cheating.

We know that and that’s not and never was the argument, try again.

States are following state law requiring a recount, and also a Senate run off.

The arguments tried have failed.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Trump definitely has 2024 to look forward to 

Absolute fantasy island. There will be no SC overturn, there will be no trump reelection in 2024. It simply will.not.happen.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

you do know yes that the officials in charge of the Georgia vote counting are republicans? Are they corrupt too?

What have I been saying about Washington establishment Republicans? Been quite consistent on that point.

Hear them out and then throw them out.

That’s not entirely how it works in the US. Again, the West Wing is Hollywood.

This is painfully obvious, and why you incorrectly

No, they will, especially this Supreme Court and the circumstances surrounding this election.

-19 ( +1 / -20 )

The trump legal dream team cannot win him a juvenile argument forget an election.

Thry will only end up humiliating themselves!!!

10 ( +11 / -1 )

I'm all for points of view, how to interpret facts, etc.,

Well, we shall see if they do present them or not when they go before the SC.

You only have Debunked Talking Points

As Trump said in 2016, If I win I win, If I lost it was because of cheating.

Dems thought Trump was illegitimate from day one until now, so yeah, Trump has time and I hope he does drag it out. Like Dana Bash said, a little of this is payback and why not? The Dems can handle 4 more weeks or more of this.

The arguments tried have failed.

We shall see.

-20 ( +1 / -21 )

The only thing to look forward to in 2024 is the asset sale of whatever remains of trump corporation!!!

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Trump corporations, beyond that, he has enough time to expand the base, Biden will help him with that as well as the squad.

-21 ( +1 / -22 )

Therapists, not Supreme Court judges should be listening to Rudy ramblings!!!

10 ( +11 / -1 )

trump can see the Biden inauguration stage being set up from his windows.

The view must be nice!!!

12 ( +13 / -1 )

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