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Trump defies judge, gives courtroom speech on tense final day of New York civil fraud trial

56 Comments
By MICHAEL R. SISAK and JENNIFER PELTZ

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56 Comments

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unleashing a barrage of attacks in a six-minute diatribe before being cut off by the judge.

And some people want to give this loser the nuclear codes.

State lawyers say that by making himself seem richer, Trump qualified for better loan terms from banks, saving him at least $168 million

Weird. Trump and his backers were claiming no one lost any money. Clearly that wasn't the case.

26 ( +26 / -0 )

“This is a fraud on me. What’s happened here, Sir, is a fraud on me," Trump said. He later accused the judge of not listening to him. “I know this is boring to you.”

What a whiney little b*****. Trump is the biggest victim ever.

“Valuations, as elucidated ad nauseum in this trial, can be based on different criteria analyzed in different ways," Engoron wrote in the Dec. 18 ruling. “But a lie is still a lie.”

That's the crux of the matter. The valuations aren't important. The facts that the valuations were based on, were lies, and hence, fraud. Trump can complain all he wants, but the facts are, he committed fraud.

It's going to be fun watching the Trump sign coming off Trump Tower.

23 ( +23 / -0 )

The former Insurrectionist-in-Chief doing what he does best … preaching to his feeble choir.

22 ( +23 / -1 )

State lawyers say that by making himself seem richer, Trump qualified for better loan terms from banks, saving him at least $168 million.

People who claim that there were no losers and the banks made money, don't understand finance. Banks lend based on risk, and the interest rate of the loan is determined by that risk.

Trump benefitted by getting loans with more favourable interest rates through his fraud.

The banks lost. There is your victim.

But even if there were no victims, this would still be a valid case.

19 ( +20 / -1 )

Pouting like a child being told to eat his greens, seated at the table rather than giving a standing summation, the Insurrectionist in Chief whines for 5 min before being cut off for lunch.

It brought to mind the Seinfeld episode of Festivus and the “Airing of the grievances!” Without the comedic effect.

Al Pachino in ”Scent of a woman” it’s was not, lol.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

Trump qualified for better loan terms from banks, saving him at least $168 million

If you or your 401(k) or pension had shares in these banks, then you are also a victim.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

He needs to be handcuffed and gagged while held in contempt of court, regardless of what the trial results are.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

 I just want the people to decide

We decided in 2020, but your boy didn't care and then proceeded to break the law in an attempt to hold onto power and disenfranchise us. We take that pretty seriously as you will see over the coming years.

17 ( +18 / -1 )

bass4funk

That's the crux of the matter. The valuations aren't important. The facts that the valuations were based on, were lies, and hence, fraud.

Interesting, all the banks said something different

No, they didn't.

Trump can complain all he wants, but the facts are, he committed fraud.

In the eyes of ignorant left

Nope. In the eyes of the neutral judge.

should never be decided by politically motivated activist judges or begrudging AG with a political axe to grind.

Luckily, none of that is happening. The AG and judge are just doing there job.

17 ( +18 / -1 )

*their job.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

It brought to mind the Seinfeld episode of Festivus and the “Airing of the grievances!” Without the comedic effect

Next up, “the feats of strength!”

Felon in waiting Trump will attempt to walk down stairs without the assistance of a general officer.

THEN, in a never before seen attempt, he will try to drink from a water bottle using just one hand!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Yes, they did.

Prove it.

No, political activist judge.

Lol are you trying to claim Trump didn't inflate his assets to get favorable loans and then deflate those same asset prices when filing taxes? They have both sets of documents, and not even Trump denies deflating/inflating asset values.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

bass4funk

For a second day on Thursday, a former Deutsche Bank executive sat on the witness stand as years of his firm's confidential Trump "credit reports" flashed across two big screens.

Trump never missed a loan payment, the credit reports and the banker's testimony showed. In almost a decade as a borrower, Trump was never even late making a payment – not before, during, or after his presidency.

Great. He paid on time. But he got favourable interest rates based on clear fraud.

No, political activist judge.

Nope.

Engoron ruled that Trump committed years of fraud by exaggerating his wealth and the value of assets on financial statements he used to get loans and make deals. As punishment, the judge said he would dissolve some of Trump's companies — a decision that could cause him to lose control of marquee New York properties, like Trump Tower.

So yes, he was already compromised in taking on this case

Compromised? How? None of what you quoted indicates this.

The AG and judge are just doing their job.

In trying to wound him financially going into 2024, yes. By any means..

Nope. Just litigating clear fraud in New York. Unless you think Trump and his company are above the law?

14 ( +15 / -1 )

As Andrew Weismann said of Trump’s statements, “Adverb, adjective, noun is not a legal argument.”

13 ( +13 / -0 )

Mr. Trump's ignoring every thing but his own point of view is an indication of what we can expect if he is elected president. The defiance will include the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and of democracy itself. His actions here are puerile.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

motivated activist judges

Trump is the who didn't want a jury. That is his doing. Besides it is the duty of Trump people to send Trump money and not just complain about motivated activist judges

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Free airtime, more news headlines, the more controversial the better.

People still haven't worked out that he thrives off this. Bad news is good news. During the 2016 campaign, when revving up the crowd at his rallies, he would keep an eye of the camera bank of TV news cameras in the middle-back area. The little red light on the broadcast quality camera indicated "live on-air" and he would say anything to keep those little red lights on.

Same principle here.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Prove it. 

I just did

Lol are you trying to claim Trump

I was talking about the judge.

-18 ( +0 / -18 )

So yes, he was already compromised in taking on this case

Speaking of compromised, how about the 7.8 million USD paid by foreign governments, not foreign individuals, but direct payments from governments to Trump via his properties? And that’s just in the first 2 years.

And unlike your unsupported speculation, the oversight committee has the receipts.

No, nothing dodgy going on there at all, lol.

Given a chance to comment on his faux town hall on Faux “news” Trump seated on his surely steel reinforced stool said “I’m not Hunter Biden. I don’t get 8 million for doing nothing.”

Correct! It wasn’t nothing. It was corrupt influence and classified information! Hell, 8 million was a steal!

What would they get for say 2 billion in a son-in-law’s wealth management fund?

Hypothetically speaking of course!

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Prove it. 

I just did

No, not so much. Or should we all just scroll?

12 ( +12 / -0 )

I just did

Making a claim isn't "proving" anything. No bank claimed there wasn't fraud. That didn't happen.

I was talking about the judge.

I know what you're claiming. It's utter nonsense to claim this is all politically motivated when we all know Trump did in fact commit fraud.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Great. He paid on time.

And the judge overlooked that most critical point and didn’t even enter that or took that into consideration. Bias, not surprised.

Nope.

Yes, according to his history and disdain for Trump.

Engoron, a Democrat, has ruled repeatedly against Trump in the three years he's been presiding over James' lawsuit. He's forced Trump to sit for a deposition, held him in contempt and fined him $110,000.

So yes, he was already compromised in taking on this case

Nope. Just litigating clear fraud in New York. Unless you think Trump and his company are above the law?

To try and politically bankrupt the guy, yes. If he weren’t running this would never be an issue, they know it, Trump knows it.

-19 ( +0 / -19 )

No, not so much.

Yes, but if you want to bypass the facts than that is up to you.

Or should we all just scroll?

You could do that, try

Making a claim isn't "proving" anything.

Exactly!! lol

No bank claimed there wasn't fraud. That didn't happen.

Yes, they did according to Deutsche BanK.

I know what you're claiming.

I don’t think you do, relax, relax

-17 ( +0 / -17 )

Clearly Trump has decided he'd rather campaign this way than debate the other Republican candidates. He doesn't have to handle tough talk about policy, he can just moan about biased judges all the time and all the adoring MAGA suckers just love it.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Yes, they did according to Deutsche BanK.

No they didn't. Deutsch Bank did not claim there was no fraud.

I don’t think

I know.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Yes, according to his history and disdain for Trump.

Every sentient being with cognition has disdain for Trump. That doesn’t make them compromised that makes the same.

Engoron, a Democrat, has ruled repeatedly against Trump in the three years he's been presiding over James' lawsuit. He's forced Trump to sit for a deposition, held him in contempt and fined him $110,000.

Because he was violating court orders.

The judge is enforcing the rules in a civil procedure, UNFAIR! Lol.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

bass4funk

Great. He paid on time.

And the judge overlooked that most critical point and didn’t even enter that or took that into consideration. Bias, not surprised.

That's because it is irrelevant. The relevant point is that Trump got favourable interest rates based on fraudulent valuations. As the judge said:

“Valuations, as elucidated ad nauseum in this trial, can be based on different criteria analyzed in different ways," Engoron wrote in the Dec. 18 ruling. “But a lie is still a lie.”

Yes, according to his history and disdain for Trump.

Engoron, a Democrat, has ruled repeatedly against Trump in the three years he's been presiding over James' lawsuit. He's forced Trump to sit for a deposition, held him in contempt and fined him $110,000.

So yes, he was already compromised in taking on this case

None of that is any evidence of compromise.

No bank claimed there wasn't fraud. That didn't happen.

Yes, they did according to Deutsche BanK.

No. They didn't.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Clearly Trump has decided he'd rather campaign this way than debate the other Republican candidates.

Clearly, the Dems would rather try and keep Trump off the campaign trail and keep him pegged down in court rather than allowing him to debate his rivals. There, I fixed it for you.

He doesn't have to handle tough talk about policy,

If you won’t let him, true, luckily he already has 4 years behind to prove otherwise.

he can just moan about biased judges all the time and all the adoring MAGA suckers just love it.

Yes, if you were politically prosecuted, you would as well. MAGA suckers? ROFL!

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

For his supporters who were claiming he was being denied his rights and should be allowed to speak, what did you learn? Did he drop any legal bombshells? Compelling new evidence? Did he help his defense with a stirring speech of resilience and determination?

Nope, he just whined about what a victim and constant loser he is. What a ‘leader’.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

I did happen to catch his 3 minute word salad before he went in for his drubbing last night.

A repetition of self-soothing adverb-adjective-noun clauses with little grammatical syntax at meaning that he circled back to (you guessed it) repeatedly.

It brought to mind an alternate reality version of Al Franken’s bit on Stuart Smally where before every show Stuart would look into a mirror and tell himself “I’m good enough. I’m smart enough. And dog-gone-it, people like me!”

11 ( +11 / -0 )

For his supporters who were claiming he was being denied his rights and should be allowed to speak, what did you learn? 

Kind of undercut his already nonexistent grounds for appeal on that one, didn’t he?

Doh!

10 ( +10 / -0 )

He had to give his ‘speech’ sitting down because the courtroom didn’t have the special toe pillows he uses to stop from tilting over when he stands.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

That's because it is irrelevant.

Because the left say so, I see….smh

None of that is any evidence of compromise.

It is.

No bank claimed there wasn't fraud. That didn't happen

If Trump valued his apartments on Park Avenue at $50 million... and the real value is $739,000... Then, the state of New York and NYC owe him a boatload of property tax money that he overpaid. Lol

Yes, they did.

Let's see ... One overvaluation of collateral on a loan application that was corrected, the loan underwriter's responsibility to review and conduct appraisals and the fact that the loans were repaid early and to the satisfaction of the banks .... Where's the fraud or misconduct let alone the fact the Trump wasn't given his right to a jury trial? .. Pure political and election interference as was disclosed by the DA herself during election campaign.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

Yes, according to his history and disdain for Trump.

Every sentient being with cognition has disdain for Trump. That doesn’t make them compromised that makes THEM SANE.

Damn fat thumbs and no post-post edit function.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Bob FosseToday  08:14 am JST

He had to give his ‘speech’ sitting down because the courtroom didn’t have the special toe pillows he uses to stop from tilting over when he stands

This post needs one of those 70s Batman overlays saying “POW” or “KABLAM!”

6 ( +7 / -1 )

If Trump valued his apartments on Park Avenue at $50 million... and the real value is $739,000... Then, the state of New York and NYC owe him a boatload of property tax money that he overpaid. Lol

That has nothing to do with Deutsch Bank never claiming Trump didn't commit fraud.

Also, why would Trump claim a $739,000 property is actually worth $50 million?

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Let's see ... One overvaluation of collateral on a loan application that was corrected, the loan underwriter's responsibility to review and conduct appraisals and the fact that the loans were repaid early and to the satisfaction of the banks .... Where's the fraud or misconduct let alone the fact the Trump wasn't given his right to a jury trial?

Interesting. I wonder if they covered any of this during the trial. If not it’s a shame they forgot to ask you about it.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

let alone the fact the Trump wasn't given his right to a jury trial?

Why do you still believe this despite it being clearly and irrefutably wrong?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Where's the fraud or misconduct let alone the fact the Trump wasn't given his right to a jury trial?

Probably because he hires incompetent legal council. Oops.

Why it matters: Trump has claimed it's "unfair" that the judge in the case opted for a bench trial, without a jury. But the court docket shows that while Attorney General Letitia James filed a document requesting a bench trial, Trump's lawyers never filed any corresponding document requesting a jury.

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/04/trump-fraud-trial-new-york-jury

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Every sentient being with cognition has disdain for Trump.

The left do.

*That doesn’t make them compromised that makes *THEM SANE.

In your personal opinion, sure. I think the opposite.

Damn fat thumbs and no post-post edit function.

Then relax a bit.

This post needs one of those 70s Batman overlays saying “POW” or “KABLAM!”

More like whaaa whaaa, whaaa….lol

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

Why do you still believe this despite it being clearly and irrefutably wrong?

Nope.

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

If Trump valued his apartments on Park Avenue at $50 million... and the real value is $739,000... Then, the state of New York and NYC owe him a boatload of property tax money that he overpaid. Lol

In reality, he claimed $50 million for the purpose of getting a loan, and a much lower number on his taxes.

So actually, not only did he defraud the bands, he committed income tax evasion.

Oops, “someone” didn’t think that one all the way through….

Fortunately for the felon in Chief, it seems as though the Statute of Limitations has expired on criminal liability.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Nope

Ok then. Explain how he was denied a jury trial, with evidence.

If you don’t I can provide evidence why you are wrong but I’ll do you the courtesy of going first.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

bass4funk

That's because it is irrelevant.

Because the left say so, I see….smh

No. Because it has nothing to do with the fraud that Trump committed.

If Trump valued his apartments on Park Avenue at $50 million... and the real value is $739,000... Then, the state of New York and NYC owe him a boatload of property tax money that he overpaid. Lol

He used different valuations for tax purposes. That's another part of what this case is about.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

bass4funkToday  08:10 am JST

"Clearly Trump has decided he'd rather campaign this way than debate the other Republican candidates."

Clearly,

Wasn't a moderator saying yesterday people shouldn't get obsessed with these topics?

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Judge Arthur Engoron — who earlier denied Trump's extraordinary request to give his own closing statement — let him continue almost uninterrupted for what amounted to a brief personal summation, then cut him off for a scheduled lunch break.

Despite all the attacks and false narratives by the MAGites Engoron seems remarkably gracious and accommodating to Trump.

Seen to much footage of defendants being restrained and gagged for breaking the order of the court and defying the judge ; seems there is a two-tier justice system and Trump is one of the beneficiaries.

Clearly, Trump would rather try and keep Haley off the campaign trail and keep her pegged with birther claims rather than allowing him to debate his rival which he refuses to do. . .

There, I fixed it for you

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Trump is trying to spin his ONE appeals court ruling (saying that Ivanka was exempt due to statute of limitations issues) as a wholistic win, which is laughable. He also said the judge is not obeying the appeals court’s decision, which is a lie.

If the appeals court had ruled in Trump’s favor, the case would have been dismissed. But it wasn’t. Because the court made no such ruling.

This fits well with Trump’s decades long record of lying about basic facts regarding his business and the inevitable court proceedings that followed.

The Murdoch-run NY Post has a big headline on it today.

He lost, and while there will be a lengthy appeals process, he has no grounds (other than he doesn’t like being financially held to account), and will very likely fail.

This is the end of the niche boutique business (masquerading as an “empire”) known as the Trump (dis)Organization.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Despite all the attacks and false narratives by the MAGites Engoron seems remarkably gracious and accommodating to Trump.

Indeed. He could have said “I warned you yesterday about this an about the actions I would take. I fine you 50k and order your removal from this court for the remainder of the proceedings.”

Instead, he just cut Trump off and declared”lunch!” Lol.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Love Trump more and more everyday.

Can't wait to vote for him---again.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Has no impact at all on Trump 2024!

Guess if he has to pay some money that will comfort the left in some way after he is re-elected?

Cant do business for 5 years? Well his next 5 years isn’t available anyway as he is running for and then will be serving as President.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Nobody has scoffed at the laws of the land more than the accused, who with his absurdly long list of litigation cases over half a century, has made himself the most litigious person in US history and probably in the world. He's still talking the talk, but soon he may have to start walking the (perp) walk into a prison cell (the future "White House"?). That said, 45 is probably enjoying his present notoriety more than even when he was president (too much "hard" reading and paperwork) in the belief that his money will keep him surfing on the crest of appeals until, as an octogenarian ex-Potus, he will be to able turn the actuarial tables on his tormentors.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I was talking about the judge.

That is all on Trump since Trump and his lawyers didn't choose a jury trial. Also, there are appeals processes. What's the problem. Again, it's all on Trump.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Has no impact at all on Trump 2024! 

Guess if he has to pay some money that will comfort the left in some way after he is re-elected? 

Cant do business for 5 years? Well his next 5 years isn’t available anyway as he is running for and then will be serving as President.

It’s likely to be a lifetime ban for the Donald. Not 5 years.

It affects his origin story with the non-cult electorate as it reveals his entire origin story to be bovine feces.

It was never meant to be a criminal or political reckoning. Those are both coming sure as dawn follows dusk.

Sit tight, it’s on its way.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Has no impact at all on Trump 2024!

Amen brother! We need Trump in the Whitehouse so he can do work for Saudi Arabia and China. It's important to me that Trump becomes president so he can milk it for all it's worth. "America first!"

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Amen brother! We need Trump in the Whitehouse so he can do work for Saudi Arabia and China.

China?? lol As for the Saudis, I do hope he can restore our tattered relationship with them.

It's important to me that Trump becomes president so he can milk it for all it's worth. "America first!"

Yes

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Besides monetary damages, James wants Trump and his co-defendants barred from doing business in New York.

To be honest, I really haven't been following this one that closely; but this is hardly a punishment. New York state (especially the city) is a terrible place to do business. Absurdly high/complicated taxes and regulations that have caused both small businesses and even large companies to move elsewhere. Pizza chefs? Leaving. Most of the Italian-Americans headed to Florida, I hear it's all Pakistanis in New Yorks remaining pizza parlors. Want your PC components restored by an expert? Louis Rossman, legendary "right-to-repair" activist and challenger to big tech companies, packed up and moved his company to Texas, although the government of New York is still trying to tax his business which no longer even exists in their state. New tech startups and financial firms don't really seem to be doing much in NYC these days, either. After all, if the government may at some point try to house illegal immigrants in your office, why even bother dealing with New York? No bright, up and coming entrepreneur wants to deal with that.

All of which raises questions of the legitimacy of New York state's policies and practices. When you consider the myriad of nonsensical regulatory apparatuses and bodies, the double standards, and apparent corruption that exists among the NYC's business and political elites, it does kind of call into question the State Judiciary's case against Mr. Trump, and I am hardly even that big a fan of him.

New York state is beautiful, especially Lake Placid; New York City is perhaps the world's most iconic, a centerpiece of American culture and history. But nobody likes living there or wants to live there, and we all seem to know why.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

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