Trump escalates impeachment fight, barring envoy's testimony

I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, would enjoy watching Donny's incompetence and mouth dig himself deeper into holes if it weren't so harmful to our democratic republic.

Trump is wisely making a spectacle of this whole debacle because he knows it’s his ticket to win in 2020.

It's rather cute that you think Donny does anything wisely.

Sondland is not going to show up after all. Congress should issue a subpoena. If he still doesn't show up, fine him and jail him. It's time for Congress to get tough!

Add this to the articles of impeachment.

Trump's getting huge sums of money from the wealthiest around the globe supporting his quest for full implementation of corporatist authoritarianism.

Trump's a 'disrupter' whose disruptions have led to undermining the bits of democracy left in US systems allowing the nation and the globe's elite to have even greater rein.

Burning BushToday  06:56 am JST

Trump is wisely making a spectacle...

No, it's stupid and it's just making him and his administration look more guilty. If Trump has nothing to hide he should let everything come out and trust the Senate to exonerate him.

Of course Donnie is going to drag this out. It's a time tested technique used by all sorts of con artists, flim flam men, criminals and more, especially when the issue at hand is complex.

By stalling, delaying, rebuffing, and basically stonewalling, Donnie's buying time. He's buying time for his mouthpieces to continue to repeat the lies that we've seen everywhere from Sunday morning talk shows to this site. Lies such as "Trump's focusing on corruption," and "this isn't about Biden," and more.

In doing so, they require Congress to expend energy fighting each of these delaying tactics. But the average Joe doesn't care about delaying tactics. Hell, it's almost to be expected nowadays after all the lawyer shows on TV. If a case isn't won in sixty minutes or less, it's because a lawyer's being sneaky, right? The system's screwing the regular guy, right?

Donnie and company know this. They know that the more days they can be out there spewing their conspiracies, their lies, their twisting of facts and more (and yes, we'll see it right here in this thread before it gets frozen like every other Trump thread), the more chance they have to sway the 'average guy.'

And worse comes to worse, it gives Donnie a reasonable (in his mind) exit. Not the conquering hero he'd like to be, but the tragic figure, the downtrodden, bullied victim of 'the system' in his mind.

Never mind that the truth is pretty much the exact opposite, and only in Bizarro World is Donald Trump honest, stable, or a victim.

Investigating the president's actions is a legislative issue.

Nice head fake. You meant...

“Investigating the president's criminal actions is a legislative issue but can only hold impeachment inquiries after a successful House vote to do so.”

There, fixed it for ya.

If it continues Trump will need the support of the Russians again next year.

The Russians have been here throughout his rein, along with an array of useful idiots (as Stalin might have said), Bannonites, and others in the global alt right supporting the cause of authoritarians around the globe. #butyouguys#backatcha

Trump is an idiot and is only making the case against him easier. These consistent derailments are actually impeachable offenses and he is only assisting them in removing him from office.

“Investigating the president's criminal actions is a legislative issue but can only hold impeachment inquiries after a successful House vote to do so.”

There, fixed it for ya.

You didn't fix anything. Instead, you just repeated President Trump's own ignorance here. The fact is, no such rule exists. I've pointed this out many times before, but why bother checking the Constitution when you can simply ape the Trump's tweets or repeat right-wing talking points?

To what extent will the breakdown in the US political system begin to affect everyday life in the US? I just returned from the US, and daily life seems normal. People were shopping, eating out, working, etc. as normal. I was in California.

POTUS is sounding more and more like Obama just using different words. Since the topic is currently about Ukraine, what about the recent conversations with XI (China) and that transcript and get an explanation as to why he promised to keep silent about Hong Kong. hmmm. Maybe the Democrats are on to something here. This only shows who much corporate globalism and big banks own the US vs the People.

why don't they investigate biden while they're at it? if they want to get this out in the open let's get everything out in the open! drain the swamp!

Trump indicated on Tuesday morning that it was his decision to stop the deposition, tweeting that he would "love to send Ambassador Sondland" to testify, "but unfortunately he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court."

The refusal by elected Democrats to hold a House vote has guaranteed that this issue will end up before a judge. Precedent demands that the House have a floor vote. If the House votes to initiate an impeachment, then both Democrats AND Republicans will be able to call witnesses, and issue subpoena's as required.

Also, the whistleblower will, eventually, be expected to publically answer all questions BEFORE a finding for impeachment will be passed along to the U.S. Senate. Basing an impeachment on the word of an anonymous source simply isn't going to be acceptable to the U.S. voters.

fdsToday  08:53 am JST

why don't they investigate biden while they're at it?

This has all come about because Trump called for Biden to be investigated. That hasn't happened, curiously enough. There should have been some kind of investigation by now - if there was any evidence to base it on.

if they want to get this out in the open let's get everything out in the open!

Yes, let's. The White House should also get everything out in the open and let the House of Representatives have all the information and testimonies it wants.

Obstruct, obstruct, obstruct...lie, lie, lie - that's all Donnie knows.

Trying to delay the inevitable....

Nixon 2.0....

Let the world see all the fifth and scum that is Trump-world....

The refusal by elected Democrats to hold a House vote has guaranteed that this issue will end up before a judge. Precedent demands that the House have a floor vote. 

False. The only impeachment vote required in the House is whether to approve articles of impeachment to be sent to the Senate for judgement. Articles are only submitted after an investigation or investigations are held and their findings are made, as it should be. Once again, Trump supporters don't understand what is clearly spelled out in the Constitution.

There has been no evidence of wrongdoing by Biden or his son.

That would be due to Joe Biden using his position as Obama's VP to shut down the Ukrainian investigation into Burisma Holdings. Burisma Holdings is the Ukrainian company which had hired the unqualified Hunter Biden to do "something" for the corporation. Joe Biden was just a proud poppa looking out for his son's best interest, and keeping his kids police record clean.

dmacleod - The only impeachment vote required in the House is whether to approve articles of impeachment to be sent to the Senate for judgement. Articles are only submitted after an investigation or investigations are held and their findings are made, as it should be. Once again, Trump supporters don't understand what is clearly spelled out in the Constitution.

Once again, unless the Democrats hold a floor vote to begin an impeachment investigation, subpoenas will be ignored, and that issue will have to be settled in court.

The current occupant of the White House continues to burrow himself into a deeper hole at the detriment and expense of the democratic values of the United States of America (U.S./USA).

That would be due to Joe Biden using his position as Obama's VP to shut down the Ukrainian investigation into Burisma Holdings. Burisma Holdings is the Ukrainian company which had hired the unqualified Hunter Biden to do "something" for the corporation. Joe Biden was just a proud poppa looking out for his son's best interest, and keeping his kids police record clean.

Or, as everyone except Hannity and Ingraham know, there is zero evidence of any wrongdoing involving the Bidens. Really Trumpers, this one is dead - everyone knows this was a kindergarten-level smear that has no basis. Keep repeating it if it helps take your mind off Trump's confession to abuse of authority in the transcript, and Trump and Rudy's attempt to stack the board of the Ukraine Gas company to steer contracts to Trump businesses.

https://www.apnews.com/d7440cffba4940f5b85cd3dfa3500fb2

Donnie, the ever loyal President....

Hey Rick, you're the stuckee for all of Ukraine-gate....

Hey Pence, you're getting part of the blame too...

Hey Pompeo, once China-gate comes out, you da' man....

Hey Don Jr, standby....you're next....

Hey Donny don't go mistaking tyranny for being president of the United States of America. You must, according to the constitution, respond to allegations of impeachment. You're not the King of America, although, your minions want to believe you are.

David Varnes: Donnie and company know this. They know that the more days they can be out there spewing their conspiracies, their lies, their twisting of facts and more (and yes, we'll see it right here in this thread before it gets frozen like every other Trump thread), the more chance they have to sway the 'average guy.'

Don't forget the smearing. The constant, constant smearing of decent people to make their honesty look less credible. Trump's base will think the corrupt billionaire is really the plucky, intuitive observer, exposing deep-seeded dishonesty in people who had impeccable records up until they decided to throw it all away for some diabolical plot against Trump. All because they hate him.

dmacleod - The whistleblower's complaint was vetted by a Trump-appointed Inspector General who reviewed the complaint and found it credible. This wouldn't have happened on just "second-hand" accounts.

The whistleblower's complaint was a second-hand account. And the whistleblower has conspired with Schiff's committee before the whistleblower filed his 2nd-hand account. Schiff, of course, denied that is what happened, and then admitted that it had happened.

What elected Democrats are still missing is actual evidence of high crimes or misdemeanors. Democrats are also failing to convince a sufficient number of constituents that an impeachment is warranted.

Meanwhile, the Justice Dept. will soon be releasing it's investigation of the investigators who trumped up the charges of Russian collusion with Trump. Tick tock. The Democrats impeachment theories are about to disappear in a puff of Fusion GPS dossier dust.

No, it's stupid and it's just making him and his administration look more guilty. If Trump has nothing to hide he should let everything come out and trust the Senate to exonerate him.

Bull, if the Democrats have nothing to hide and if they feel they they are on solid footing or on the side of history (ROFL) they would call for a vote, pure and simple. They don’t want to give the President due process or allow the Republicans to call any witness or even cross examine their witnesses, they just want to politically hang this Albatross on his neck to torment, nothing more. This move puts the spotlight back on the Dems and forces them to take a vote making it official and at the same time opens the vulnerable freshmen Democrats about 30 of them that won in Trump districts that Pelosi is extremely worried about, so she needs to decide to sacrifice these freshman which helps Trump significantly or she takes impeachment to a vote which in the long run also helps Trump as well as the GOP.

arrestpaulToday  10:06 am JST

What elected Democrats are still missing is actual evidence of high crimes or misdemeanors. Democrats are also failing to convince a sufficient number of constituents that an impeachment is warranted.

Funny, the only polls I can find show increasing support for impeachment proceedings.

What elected Democrats are still missing is actual evidence of high crimes or misdemeanors. 

Donald Trump has used the office of the presidency to solicit a foreign government to help him win an election. That constitutes a high crime/misdemeanor.

He has also used the Justice Department to obstruct an investigation into the above. That also constitutes a high crime/misdemeanor.

I could add more.

arrestpaul: Precedent demands that the House have a floor vote.

Precedent demanded Trump release his taxes. Precedent demanded Trump divest. Precedent demanded Trump respect Congress' budget. The list is endless, and then you could move on to McConnell.

Once again, unless the Democrats hold a floor vote to begin an impeachment investigation, subpoenas will be ignored, and that issue will have to be settled in court.

The purpose of the vote is to put Democrats in purple states on the hot seat. It's a purely political move and is not supported by law. Good luck with the courts since you're essentially asking a judge to greenlight a law that doesn't exist for political purposes.

Joe Biden was just a proud poppa looking out for his son's best interest, and keeping his kids police record clean.

Nope. No evidence of that at all. Just disinformation by the Right about a situation being investigated by Rudy, not the FBI. One one side you have every single credible person from that time agreeing that the prosecutor should have been fired and there was nothing out of the ordinary about it. Your side has Rudy and the guy they actually fired as his star witness.

Go ahead and play "where there's smoke, there's fire" angle all you want, but that would put quid pro quo into the spotlight.

The whistleblower's complaint was a second-hand account. And the whistleblower has conspired with Schiff's committee before the whistleblower filed his 2nd-hand account. Schiff, of course, denied that is what happened, and then admitted that it had happened.

False on all counts. The whistleblower's complaint was vetted by the Trump-appointed Inspector General. The IG determined that the complaint was credible and needed to be further investigated by Congress. If you have a problem with that or have information to the contrary, I suggest that you take it up with him. His name is Michael Atkinson.

What elected Democrats are still missing is actual evidence of high crimes or misdemeanors.

You have no idea what they have since their committees haven't released any findings yet. They also don't have what they need because of all of the stonewalling by Trump and his henchmen at the White House. If Trump has nothing to hide, then he should turn over what the committees are requesting--which is plainly spelled out in the Constitution.

Democrats are also failing to convince a sufficient number of constituents that an impeachment is warranted.

Not exactly. Many Democrats came back from the summer recess after holding townhalls with their constituents, and more were in favor of proceeding with impeachment.

Meanwhile, the Justice Dept. will soon be releasing it's investigation of the investigators who trumped up the charges of Russian collusion with Trump. 

And they will find nothing as yet another pathetic attempt to undermine what the intelligence agencies and the Mueller Report all concluded. I know that Barr and company are trying to erase it, but they will not succeed.

Tick tock. The Democrats impeachment theories are about to disappear in a puff of Fusion GPS dossier dust.

You are clearly living in an alternative dimension. The clock is ticking on Trump and his corrupt administration.

The whistleblower's complaint was a second-hand account. And the whistleblower has conspired with Schiff's committee before the whistleblower filed his 2nd-hand account. Schiff, of course, denied that is what happened, and then admitted that it had happened.

Wrong. The IG investigated and verified the accuracy of the complaint with first-hand witnesses - and judged the complaint "valid and credible". Now the second whistle blower has come forward to corroborate the initial complaint.

What elected Democrats are still missing is actual evidence of high crimes or misdemeanors. Democrats are also failing to convince a sufficient number of constituents that an impeachment is warranted.

Wrong. Trumpers continue to avoid the evidence staring them right in the face - Donnie's confession in the transcript; "I would like you to do us a favor THOUGH"....

Meanwhile, the Justice Dept. will soon be releasing it's investigation of the investigators who trumped up the charges of Russian collusion with Trump. Tick tock. The Democrats impeachment theories are about to disappear in a puff of Fusion GPS dossier dust. The media outlets might even turn the Page, Strzok, Steele, and Hillary debacle into front page news.

Wrong. Today the Senate REPUB-led Intel Committee released their report on Russian interference...

“The Committee found that the IRA sought to influence the 2016 US presidential election by harming Hillary Clinton’s chances of success and supporting Donald Trump at the direction of the Kremlin,” the report reads using an acronym for the Internet Research Agency, the name for the group of the Russian hackers.

https://www.vox.com/2019/10/8/20905160/senate-intelligence-russia-2016-election

Add this to the articles of impeachment.

He hasn't done anything impeachable, Crazy.

The past 3 years has caused me to despise Democrats.

Wrong. The IG investigated and verified the accuracy of the complaint with first-hand witnesses - and judged the complaint "valid and credible". Now the second whistle blower has come forward to corroborate the initial complaint.

What a load of garbage, of course the findings were not accurate and indeed based on second hand information....but there’s one big flaw of the many flaws that Democrats have, the transcripts have already been released, so there’s nothing new that they’re going to find in there. Again, this is funny watching the Dems take on another loser of an attempt, but they have every constitutional right to make themselves look like complete fools.

Trump is a guilty as sin hes even admitted to it

No, he has not.

what more is there to it...anyhow the most corrupt dishonest president of all times..congratulations meria you did this to yourselves...

Naw, the only thing they did to themselves is not push harder to dive deeper into the deep Democrat swamp, but Barr is on it, so I feel a lot better now.

  . . . so you can support and impeachment, but also not support a removal and the Republicans are not going to do that. 

You are completely missing the point here. Most people realize that the spineless and "party before country" Republican senators right now will not vote Trump out. However, they will be on the hot seat to explain themselves to their constituents--and many are in vulnerable states right now--and once the pressure and evidence gets to be too much to ignore, they will flip. I have a feeling that this is going to be 1974 all over again. Trump will be told that he will not have enough Senate support, and he will resign instead of face the humiliation of impeachment.

Simon Foston - Funny, the only polls I can find show increasing support for impeachment proceedings.

Poll results are usually based on the question(s) that were asked by the pollsters. How were the questions phrased on the polls you are referring to?

You are completely missing the point here. Most people realize that the spineless and "party before country" Republican senators right now will not vote Trump out.

That’s the only thing that matters in the end. Nothing else.

and many are in vulnerable states right now--and once the pressure and evidence gets to be too much to ignore, they will flip.

I don’t think so, especially in the fly over States, more and more people are teed off that the sneaky Dems are trying to nullify their votes and at the same time McConnell is stacking the courts with as many conservatives as possible to make sure to always have a political edge should there be a Democrat President in 2024

arrestpaulToday  10:45 am JST

Simon Foston - Funny, the only polls I can find show increasing support for impeachment proceedings.

Poll results are usually based on the question(s) that were asked by the pollsters. How were the questions phrased on the polls you are referring to?

The phrasing of the questions isn't specified but there appear to be two separate responses: whether Trump should be investigated or not, and whether he should be removed from office or not. Support has been rising for impeachment inquiries, which is what I was referring to. Are you claiming that in fact most Americans don't want any sort of proceedings to go ahead, whatever the outcome?

Next person doesn’t testify until we get full transcripts of last testimony from Volker, not just selective leaks.

emails and texts from personal devices. Sure, after we get all those from Strzok and Page. Their personal devices seemed to be off limits or “unavailable”.

Trump is a guilty as sin hes even admitted to it

No, he has not.

what more is there to it...anyhow the most corrupt dishonest president of all times..congratulations meria you did this to yourselves...

Naw, the only thing they did to themselves is not push harder to dive deeper into the deep Democrat swamp, but Barr is on it, so I feel a lot better now.

As I was mentioning yesterday, it's as if all the air has gone out of the Trumpers - they look and sound defeated. Here, a Trumper can only muster "No" and "Naw"....

They can't even fall back on the old standby; "But Obama, Hillary..."

The overwhelming evidence of Trump's guilt and corruption weighs heavy on them...

Next person doesn’t testify until we get full transcripts of last testimony from Volker, not just selective leaks.

That's not up to you to decide. Also, who is "we"?

It’s clever wording because no one can be against an impeachment “inquiry”. If you are sounds like you don’t want the truth found out. Dems hiding behind that word to subpoena, harass, deny due process and straight up lie in schiffs case.

so ok I would like a Biden “inquiry” too. Are libs ok with that?

Giuliani said he was "very interested" in the invitation but would need to review matters of executive privilege and attorney-client privilege before committing to appear.

Even if they made it pay per view, nothing would keep me away from the Giuliani circus.

dmacleod - You have no idea what they have since their committees haven't released any findings yet. They also don't have what they need because of all of the stonewalling by Trump and his henchmen at the White House. If Trump has nothing to hide, then he should turn over what the committees are requesting--which is plainly spelled out in the Constitution.

You have no idea what they have since these Democrat controlled committees haven't released any findings yet.

I remember when Schiff claimed he had actually seen the damning evidence of the Russians colluding with Trump. Unfortunately for Schiff, Schiff was unable to actually produce the evidence he claimed he had. If Schiff actually has any evidence of wrongdoing related to his latest witch hunt, then he will have to release it to the voters.

Schiff and Pelosi are doing their best to keep their latest witch hunt under wraps, and away from the prying eyes of the voters. The Democrats can hold an actual floor vote, which will allow the voters to see what all of the secrecy is about, or they can try to convince a judge/justices that the voters have no right to know how the Democrats are going to impeach the POTUS.

What a load of garbage, of course the findings were not accurate and indeed based on second hand information....

Wrong. A Trump-appointed IG confirmed the complaint was "credible and valid".

In addition, The second whistleblower "has first-hand knowledge" of the events. 

but there’s one big flaw of the many flaws that Democrats have, the transcripts have already been released, so there’s nothing new that they’re going to find in there.

Adds more evidence to Trump's confession in the transcripts. See Volker's testimony.

Again, this is funny watching the Dems take on another loser of an attempt, but they have every constitutional right to make themselves look like complete fools.

Trumper Ambien - helps them sleep at night.

Pelosi and the Dems want to run an impeachment whereby the accused cannot defend himself. Where Republicans in Congress cannot participate by calling their own witnesses and subpoenaing testimony.

It makes no sense that Pelosi won’t hold a formal vote as has been the case in all previous impeachment attempts. The Dems are itching to overthrow Trump. Why hold back? It’s unfathomable why the reticence to run the investigation by the book - provided she wants to do so in a fair manner that respects due process. Oh, yeah. Never mind.

lincolnman - Wrong. Today the Senate REPUB-led Intel Committee released their report on Russian interference...

“The Committee found that the IRA sought to influence the 2016 US presidential election by harming Hillary Clinton’s chances of success and supporting Donald Trump at the direction of the Kremlin,” the report reads using an acronym for the Internet Research Agency, the name for the group of the Russian hackers.

Which proves that there was no collusion between the Russians and Trump.

It does prove that Russian's did interfere with the U.S. election.

I would LOVE to see Volker testimony. When is Schiff releasing the transcripts?

Russia supports Trump election without involving him or asking him: Trump is guilty of something

KKK leader endorses Dem candidate: Meh, nothing you can do about people who support you without you asking.

*lincolnman - Wrong. Today the Senate REPUB-led Intel Committee released their report on Russian interference...*

“The Committee found that the IRA sought to influence the 2016 US presidential election by harming Hillary Clinton’s chances of success and supporting Donald Trump at the direction of the Kremlin,” the report reads using an acronym for the Internet Research Agency, the name for the group of the Russian hackers.

Which proves that there was no collusion between the Russians and Trump.

And Trump - not not the Trump campaign. Manafort is sitting in jail today partly due to him giving polling data to the Russians...

It does prove that Russian's did interfere with the U.S. election.

Really? Trump says that's not true - you disagree with him?

expat - This is obstruction of justice, a separate charge that the Congress can pursue under articles of impeachment.

And those who are so charged are entitled to their day in court. I'll go out on a limb, and suggest that no court will seek the guidance of internet posters.

BlacklabelToday  11:05 am JST

so ok I would like a Biden “inquiry” too. Are libs ok with that?

Doesn't bother me. May Biden and his son go to jail if they're found guilty of anything. Perhaps you should be asking why there hasn't been an inquiry yet, as Trump called for one back in July.

SuperLib - The purpose of the vote is to put Democrats in purple states on the hot seat. It's a purely political move and is not supported by law. Good luck with the courts since you're essentially asking a judge to greenlight a law that doesn't exist for political purposes.

Ahem, the purpose of the vote is to establish that an impeachment is actually a bipartisan effort, and that the impeachment itself will be transparent, and fair. If these Democrats believe that a behind-closed-doors investigation based on an anonymous source will endear them to the voting public, the Democrat Party may cease to exist in the near future.

You have no idea what they have since these Democrat controlled committees haven't released any findings yet.

Actually, I have a fairly good idea of what they have, and from what I have read and heard, they have quite a bit to proceed with impeachment. However, I would like to see more, especially the public testimonies by those involved.

Schiff and Pelosi are doing their best to keep their latest witch hunt under wraps,

Ah the old "witch hunt" label. Since you don't have a good defense, why not keep trotting that one out.

The Democrats can hold an actual floor vote, 

How many times do you have to be told or shown that this is not an issue and should not prevent Congress from doing their investigative duties according to the Constitution? 10 times? 1000 times?

arrestpaulToday  11:19 am JST

I'll go out on a limb, and suggest that no court will seek the guidance of internet posters.

Right, the "but what about the Bidens" argument would get laughed out of court.

According to Ukraine it is being reviewed as of right now. That’s why Dems trying to take the focus away from that and blame a trump for asking them to do it. afraid of what will be found so deflect deflect

Perhaps you should be asking why there hasn't been an inquiry yet, as Trump called for one back in July.

Ahem, the purpose of the vote is to establish that an impeachment is actually a bipartisan effort, and that the impeachment itself will be transparent, and fair. If these Democrats believe that a behind-closed-doors investigation based on an anonymous source will endear them to the voting public, the Democrat Party may cease to exist in the near future.

hehe. Laughable. Well, back in the day, there was this dick Nixon, another Republican crime boss who would have never resigned/impeached nor found that so many of his Republican staff served time for illegal and criminal activity, lies and cheating regarding Watergate had it been up to just a bipartisan effort.

Even if they made it pay per view, nothing would keep me away from the Giuliani circus

Oh, I’m with you on that. This is like 1998 all over again. Can’t wait for the Dems to finally bury themselves.

For the 1000th time in return Congress cannot investigate “impeachment” without voting. They can do “oversight” but that is not what they are doing as they have claimed all this is impeachment related. (“Impeachment inquiry”)

use the words- follow the process.

Even CNN openly telling you why they won’t vote:

“Moreover, having a vote on an impeachment inquiry resolution would give Republicans an opening to argue they should have subpoena power like in past impeachment proceedings, something that Democrats would almost certainly never allow.”

use the words- follow the process.

They are trying to but are getting stonewalled by Trump and his White House minions.

They haven’t been debunked, 

Yes, they have, but feel free to continue to ignore facts and follow your own narrative since it makes you feel better.

This is like 1998 all over again.

Try 1974--remember that?

sunfunbun - Well, back in the day, there was this dick Nixon, another Republican crime boss who would have never resigned/impeached nor found that so many of his Republican staff served time for illegal and criminal activity, lies and cheating regarding Watergate had it been up to just a bipartisan effort.

"Just a bipartisan effort"? Republican Congressmen approached Nixon, and made it clear to him that he had no supporters left. Nixon then chose to resign.

This is all political theater at the moment. It shall remain so until the House has a formal vote to proceed. Until then... their expecting the Don to cooperate under the threat of impeachment. Which goes to show... they haven't been paying attention.

As it stands, this "inquiry" is merely the Democrats way of reaping the rewards of an impeachment (ramp up base support, try to convince fence-sitters, make accusations, etc.) without having to actually give the accused the legal tools that would otherwise be at his disposal to defend himself in an actual impeachment.

BlacklabelToday  11:43 am JST

For the 1000th time in return Congress cannot investigate “impeachment” without voting. 

Where in the Constitution or House rules does it say that?

BlacklabelToday  11:47 am JST

Even CNN openly telling you why they won’t vote:

“Moreover, having a vote on an impeachment inquiry resolution would give Republicans an opening to argue they should have subpoena power like in past impeachment proceedings, something that Democrats would almost certainly never allow.”

Quite... selective in your quoting there, weren't you. The CNN article goes on:

During the Clinton and Nixon impeachment inquiries, the House passed their inquiry resolutions so they could gain tools like more subpoena power and depositions, and included in those resolutions were nods to bipartisanship that gave the minority party subpoena power, too.

But the House rules have changed since the last impeachment of a president more than two decades ago. In this Congress, the House majority already has unilateral subpoena power, a rule change that was made when Republicans last controlled the House, so Democrats don't need to pass any resolution to grant those powers.

Thanks Republicans!

So they are trying to hold a vote? That’s the process.

They are trying to but are getting stonewalled by Trump and his White House minions.

Unilateral subpoena power looks like you are acting unfairly and using the word impeachment without voting is the same.

impeachment by design can’t be a partisan or unilateral decision. So until it gets bipartisan support it’s a waste of time. And it won’t get bipartisan or voter support with all the game playing from Pelosi and lying from Schiff.

So they are trying to hold a vote? That’s the process.

As I have stated many times before, a vote only gets held AFTER investigations are done in order to send articles of impeachment to the Senate. That is what is in the Constitution. There is no such passage in the Constitution which says that a floor vote is needed before any investigations take place, so stop making things up and parroting the President's ignorance.

However, if you can show us where this is in your Constitution, please cite the section.

BlacklabelToday  12:07 pm JST

Unilateral subpoena power looks like you are acting unfairly...

Blame the Republicans for that.

dmacleod - Actually, I have a fairly good idea of what they have, and from what I have read and heard, they have quite a bit to proceed with impeachment.

Of course you do. I wouldn't expect anything less. Democrats, and Hillary supporters, love to tell each other what they want to hear. It just doesn't mean it's actually true. Which is why they cried after Hillary lost her second attempt to become POTUS. And why they went into shock after Mueller's circus failed to provide the evidence they just knew had to exist, but didn't. Now they have an anonymous source who was working with Schiff's uber-biased Democrats, and has a former Hillary cohort as his attorney. This is it. This must be it. It has to be it, doesn't it? Those guys wouldn't lead us down another primrose path, would they? Not again.

Pelosi and the Dems want to run an impeachment whereby the accused cannot defend himself.

Haven't you learned? "Progressives" no longer believe in due process or the presumption of innocence.

Just let them run the government. They'll be enacting Chinese-style social credit scores sooner or later.

Simon Foston - Right, the "but what about the Bidens" argument would get laughed out of court.

Wasn't it the mere mention of Joe and Hunter that caused the anonymous source to run screaming to Schiff's totally biased committee for whistleblower protection? Why would a Justice only laugh at that shred of Democrat evidence?

Wasn't it the mere mention of Joe and Hunter that caused the anonymous source to run screaming to Schiff's totally biased committee for whistleblower protection?

No, it wasn't. The whistleblower complaint dealt with several things--mainly the President's attempt at extortion as well as the improper use of a classified White House server to hide non-classified material--material that could implicate the President and others.

As I have stated many times before, a vote only gets held AFTER investigations are done in order to send articles of impeachment to the Senate. That is what is in the Constitution. There is no such passage in the Constitution which says that a floor vote is needed before any investigations take place, so stop making things up and parroting the President's ignorance. 

Not the President’s ignorance, more like the Democrats gamble and roll of the dice on this. Already the President is raising money hands over fist. The Dems and shifty Schiff are under more increasing pressure to step aside at the very least. The man has lost all credibility with the Mueller hoax and now he’s back for more punishment. Well, ok....

.

Count on it.

many said that during the midterms, women's vote changed that real quick.

 Trump was simply "doing his job" to prevent corruption in Ukraine.

didn't know it was America job to prevent corruption in other countries, thought it was the responsibility of those countries governments. Maybe Trump can ask the Ukraine president to investigate corruption in the US starting with Trump himself

Joe BlowToday  12:19 pm JST

Haven't you learned? "Progressives" no longer believe in due process or the presumption of innocence.

Doesn't matter, because the Republicans in the Senate only believe in doing what Mitch McConnell or Trump's base want, and will be too gutless to vote for a conviction even if they do believe Trump is guilty.

arrestpaulToday  12:25 pm JST

Wasn't it the mere mention of Joe and Hunter that caused the anonymous source to run screaming to Schiff's totally biased committee for whistleblower protection? 

Not the phone call that was supposedly so "perfect" that administration lawyers decided knowledge of it had to be hidden in a top secret server?

 Already the President is raising money hands over fist.

Irrelevant. It also won't help him in an impeachment trial in the Senate.

The man has lost all credibility with the Mueller hoax and now he’s back for more punishment. 

More hyper-partisan denial of reality. The only ones back for punishment are the ones here who keep posting falsehoods. You can deny all of what was found in the Mueller Report, but it won't change the facts that were in it. It's a shame that you never bothered reading it before dismissing it.

Simon Foston - Blame the Republicans for that.

No. Elected Democrats are again showing the voters how they think of free speech, the right to an attorney, and transparency in government. If Democrats can't beat the Republicans in an open, and above board, manner, then they will resort to behind-closed-doors skullduggery, and a refusal to allow any Republican to fairly defend themselves.

The Democrat Party should change it's mascot from the donkey, to the kangaroo court.

dmacleod - As I have stated many times before, a vote only gets held AFTER investigations are done in order to send articles of impeachment to the Senate.

You may state it as many times as you feel comfortable, but that's not the precedent that was established during the last impeachments.

You may state it as many times as you feel comfortable, but that's not the precedent that was established during the last impeachments.

I'm stating a Constitutional fact. Precedents of procedure are not in the Constitution.

As far as following precedents goes, Trump has been quite happy to not follow them himself. Check out SuperLib's post from 10:25 this morning for further clarification.

impeachment by design can’t be a partisan or unilateral decision.

nobody is expecting the Republicans to vote for impeechment even if the evidence is errefutable, Republicans will put their morals over their political survival anyday.

Republicans didn't need partisan support to investigate Bill Clinton the whole point was to expose Bills lies about his affair, which it did.

With Trump its already common knowledge he lied about his multiple affairs and tried to cover them up , and the thousands of other lies on top . The whole point of the impeachment investigation is to expose Trump even more of what he really is , a lying cheating philandering misogynistic racist egotistical manic conman businessman who profits off the taxpayer from his position as POTUS. Whos wealth and intelligence isnt anywhere near what his self claimed unrivaled wisdom dictates

arrestpaulToday  12:38 pm JST

Simon Foston - Blame the Republicans for that.

No. Elected Democrats are again showing the voters how they think of free speech...

The Democrats are taking advantage of the rule change introduced by the Republicans in 2015. They're abiding by the rules. Indicate where it says otherwise.

The Democrat Party should change it's mascot from the donkey, to the kangaroo court.

The Republican Party should change its mascot from the elephant to the jellyfish--that is until they can find their spines.

The past 3 years has caused me to despise Democrats.

That’s childish. You seem to link only to Fox News and crackpots in basements.

A more varied and adult news diet might help.

We now find out that the inner circle of Trump's cabinet described the phone call with Zelinsky as "crazy" and "frightening" - and this is from Trump's hand-picked team. After the call, everyone "freaked out" and the transcript was put on the code-word server.

https://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-official-trump-ukraine-call-crazy-frightening-2019-10

Gee, wonder if that's why Trump is stone-walling any of his cabinet testifying?????

Doesn't matter, because the Republicans in the Senate only believe in doing what Mitch McConnell or Trump's base want,

The same when Reid controlled the Senate.

and will be too gutless to vote for a conviction even if they do believe Trump is guilty.

If they do believe that, but the majority of Republicans don’t.

@serrgano The past 3 years has caused me to despise Democrats.

To be expected from those in Trump's base who've sided with Internet Research Agency trolls attacking US systems. Trump's divide and conquer tactics have further splintered the US. Trump's got his followers to believe their fellow citizens with perspectives different from his are the enemy, and that the 'foreign' nations meddling in US politics are the good guys. He's got his followers to believe the Kremlin's reports are credible while those of the US and 'western' nation's aren't. The global alt right movement is a danger to democracies. "butyouguys #backatcha

Irrelevant. It also won't help him in an impeachment trial in the Senate.

Actually, it does especially in an election year impeachment or not, goes a long way to making ads for TV, radio, print and to organize town halls etc.

More hyper-partisan denial of reality. The only ones back for punishment are the ones here who keep posting falsehoods. You can deny all of what was found in the Mueller Report, but it won't change the facts that were in it. It's a shame that you never bothered reading it before dismissing it.

I’m not denying anything, don’t need to, but we have been down this road before with Mueller, Democrats and liberals were screaming the reaper is coming, this is it and none of it, not even a blip, so the Dems can pile on, won’t get them what they want and that’s the President our of office. Sanders is done, Biden is finished and Warren can’t best Trump especially Wall St. can’t stand her, so she’s starting off by ticking off Wall St. and did that alone will disqualify her.

Interesting passage from the Repub Senate Intel Committee report released today...

Russian social media trolls working to boost the candidacy of now-President Donald Trump celebrated the real estate mogul’s win on election night 2016 with champagne, according to a message disclosed in a new report from the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee.

According to the committee’s report, released Tuesday, an employee of Russia’s Internet Research Agency sent a message indicating that they “uncorked a bottle of champagne” when they found out that Trump had won. “We uttered almost in unison: ‘We made America great.’”

Sure did, didn't they Trumpers...

I used to be a Dem. I couldn’t do it anymore.

i tell you exactly why and how you will fail, you parrot the sane talking points, won’t consider any other point of view, then fail.over and over.

the senate will not impeach Trump. Whistleblower number 24 won’t be the “tipping point”. Get a reasonable candidate, shut Hillary up, and try to win the election.

we actually have people here not understanding that this is a battle for public opinion and everything Dems are doing is just making you fail more.

It’s all moot anyway as the White House says you get nothing. Enjoy your court cases, surely to be filed with friendly judges in Hawaii, NY or Cali.

 this is a battle for public opinion

Yes, that's what politics is all about. Of course some Americans will say it's all right to allow foreign governments to meddle in US political affairs. Of course some will say it's all right to increase subsidies to powerful corporations and remove checks on the way they do business. Of course some will say it's all right if the president uses his office to increase his and his family's wealth. It's just politics after all.

But because it's just politics, expect other Americans to have different perspectives, in fact expect a full array of perspectives.

Yes agreed.

So why is everything I believe “wrong” and everything Trump does “an impeachable offense” when it wasn’t when others did it? Bill clinton, John Kerry and Hillary all spoke publicly of getting support and encouragement from foreign leaders.

we say anything it’s taken literally. You sat something it’s “not what I meant” or a “parody” or taken “out of context”.

Yes, that's what politics is all about. Of course some Americans will say it's all right to allow foreign governments to meddle in US political affairs.

Hillary, opposition research, Kerry, thought it was ok to dig dirt on Bush from foreigner governments, Shifty Schiff got played by Russian comedians trying to get dirt on Trump, Hunter, Pelosi’s son, Kerry’s son, Romney’s son all are heads of gas company boards, you want collusion, the Democrats are swimming in it all day. What is wrong and why the alt left have these double standards.

Of course some will say it's all right to increase subsidies to powerful corporations and remove checks on the way they do business. Of course some will say it's all right if the president uses his office to increase his and his family's wealth. It's just politics after all.

Then you must really hate Democrats if you say that, so you’ll be voting Red then?

Everyone knows Trump held up military aid to Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine's manufacturing dirt on "The Biden."

Everyone expect the dyed-in-the-wool cultist. Of whom there are few, constant, and irrelevant.

For the rest of them, it's a tribal thing. When by themselves -- in the john, in the shower, while commuting to work -- they know. They know Trump broke the law. They know Trump sold our our country. But not without an ultimate just cause. 'Cause Democrats suck. So, they circle, the wagons, 'cause that's the way they roll. It's tribal. For them, our democratic republic is negotiable. The rule of law is negotiable.

The Constitution is negotiable. A means to and end. And that end is Power.

Simply put, they Americans by accident of birth. Nothing more. There's is, as Mark Twain tells us, "Patriotism along the Russian lines."

Trump is guilty. Trump must be impeached. Not because he brags about grabbing the *. Not because this policy or that offense. But because he is incapable of fulfilling his oath to protect and defend the constitution of the US.**

We are at the point where the following is axiomatic:

Those who defend the presidency of Donald J. Trump are not merely unworthy of respect, but tolerance.

Oh, and then there's this:

The WH's letter stonewalling the House's Impeachment investigation was plainly not written with legal arguments in mind. It is legal nonsense. Complete crap.

Nonsense crap aimed at Trump’s rube cult and cynical base. Even more, its aimed at Fox Propaganda. It provides the rubes, the cult, and the scum with gold-plated talking points. Nothing more or less.

I expect, I predict, to hear versions of these talking points 24/7 throughout conservative media for weeks to come.

Because propagandists gotta prop, rubes gotta rube, and cultists gotta cult.

But note: cynics don't gotta cynic. They can, if better men, be patriots.