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© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2018.Trump steps up fight over Russia probe after release of FBI memo
By Doina Chiacu and Steve Holland WASHINGTON©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
189 Comments
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Tommy Jones
Except that he isn't. The only people that think he is are barely literate, extremely ignorant Trump cheerleaders, and they only started thinking that after the investigation into Trump kicked off. Just before the election in 2016, Comey was the darling of the Trumpophiles.
Serrano
"Agreed. Starting with the one claiming the FBI is corrupt at any level."
Did you not know that Comey is a weasel, Tommy?
Balakrishnan Gurumurti
Mueller also is examining whether Trump has committed obstruction of justice in trying to thwart the Russia probe. Obviously Mr Trump is obstructing justice when he tries to fire the investigation. Think he seems to be ignorant of legal practices in US , USSC might interfere be it GOP or any is my view. Congress might force art 25 sooner than expected. Senate Republicans need to have 55 members but they are short so need democrats support that support may not be forth coming some republicans too might opt out to support the memo i wonder. Congress might be worried about voters for the next elections, so it might not support the memo idea, but memo is some kind of theatrical Gymick i think as trump is more an actor much less a president kind, may be senate and GOP may be conspiring Trump's fall , i presume as they seem to be fed up with him, indeed Mexico wall is some kind of tomb for him for rich and wealthy farmers need low cost labor from mexico so they support Mexican immigrant labor for centuries - so they might not oblige Mr. Trump for he seems miscalculating their support, his white supporters are mostly workers, farm rich would not want white labor at exorbitant costs to them , because of Mexican cheap labor only farmers are rich and wealthy is obvious. Let s see how things move!
1glenn
After all of his obvious and frustrating lies, Trump's comments that this memo proves his innocence are absurd. The memo clearly shows that the investigation is based on solid evidence, Republican lies to the contrary.
bass4funk
Could we please give the tinfoil hat conspiracy theories a rest for a while.
Me????? ROFL You guys are the ones that keep the Russian hoax alive.
He’s doing that. Mueller is still that, nothing changed, so don’t worry. Also, now that an investigation will start soon into looking at the corruption of the FBI and the State Department, you guys need to equally be patient. As Nunes said, this is just the beginning.
So then we are on the same page, we both are worried about the Russians, the FBI and the DOJ, we want a clean, honest and fair government without any outside influence and we want our intelligence agency to be free from corruption. Good to know.
Exactly and the more the FBI and the Democrats try to spin that the lies the agency told, it makes them look worse than they already especially that they’ve been caught with their hands in the cookie jar.
See, we both are men that want honesty and integrity within our system.
Hmmmm...humor is not a Liberals strong point.
I feel the same about a lot of people on this planet and yet as with this site, we all have to share the same space and live in harmony.
And? So what’s the problem?
Yes and millions of people feel the same about the last administration and the Democrats, so what is your point? You have your personal opinions and I have mine, that’s life.
Simon Foston
Behold, Trump's parrot has spoken everyone.
Who honestly cares what someone who spends all their time posting repetitive, semi-coherent rants on an obscure Japanese website would do.
What, with his less than impressive record of going to court and winning? The way you spend all your time idolising this... "person" that most people see as a sleazy crook at worst and a pathetic old joke at best is really a bit sad. Or does trolling pay well?
wtfjapan
Could we please give the tinfoil hat conspiracy theories a rest for a while. like Ive said before if Trump hasn't got anything to hide then let the FBI finish the investigation. It far more difficult to fabricate believable lies backed with proof and facts than it is to report the truth backed with the same proof and facts. The more Trump tries to interfere with the investigation the more guilty it makes him look.
bass4funk
No, they’re trying to put it back together from the last destructive President, but the left wants to create another Mosul.
And the left have aligned themselves with top senior corrupt FBI and DOJ holdovers.
Anyone believing that is not dealing with reality and is willingly resistent to it.
Not fabricated ones to oust a sitting President.
You are joking right?
Which was done, authorized and signed off.
And everyone that says it wasn’t is associated with the corrupt FBI and the Democrats.
Yes, his name has been ruined in order to take down a sitting President, with this memo he’s finally vindicated and if I were him, I would sue the agency and I hope he does just that.
viking68
The GOP are empowering the Russians.
The Russians are laughing at the US.
It was ohh so easy and the most cost effective intelligence operation against the US ever. More ops are happening now and will continue. What will the GOP do when they are being unwitting agents of Russia?
viking68
The right side is ignoring blatantly obvious omissions to allow a conspiracy theory. It isn’t the first time and will not be the last as they try to tear apart the government.
The right side has firmly aligned themselves with Russia.
Fact#1: There is no conspiracy to get Trump. There are too many people involved in the warrant process.
Fact #2: warrants always are issued ex parte and are based on biased information, which doesn’t invalidate the warrant
Fact #3: non disclosure of bias in the basis of warrant application does not invalidate the warrant
Fact#4: The warrant against Page was renewed three times. Each renewal requires a showing that the warrant generated information. Therefore, everyone arguing the warrant was bad is disregarding that the FBI and DOJ identified and monitored an American born Russian operative if only because that operative was associated with Trump.
Page will forever be known as a Russian agent.
Wolfpack
No it’s about Comey trying to maintain credibility in law enforcement while playing politics to ingratiate himself with who he wanted, and assumed would be, his next boss. Instead of playing it straight he played politics and got burned. Now his malfeasance is subject to exposure when the DOJ’s Inspector General report comes out in the next month or two. Every time Comey sends out a snarky tweet attacking Trump he exposes himself as the corrupt self serving partisan he so clearly is.
If the Obama FBI used one word from Hillary’s Russian dossier to justify surveillance of the Trump campaign they are toast - first and foremost Comey. In the end the FISA warrants must be released to the public to clear the air on the possibility of FBI corruption.
Serrano
CrazyJoe: "This is a sad day indeed"
Yep, for the Democrat-friendly media, haha
Oh my...
FISA Fallout #2: Democrat Friendly Media Goes Into Propaganda Hyperdrive, DOW Loses 666 Points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul1ByrpbWuY
bass4funk
Weak argument. Doesn’t have anything to do with the FBI lying to a FISA judge in order to get a warrent and Rosenstein signing off on it and saying that the dossier was solicitous and unverified and Comey exonerating Hillary and changing the words grossly negligent to careless (which carries a less significant penalty) and how can Comey exenorae Hillary before interviewing her? Those are the real questions that are deeply disturbing.
Oh, please, knowing what we know NOW that would have never happened because Comey still never had any intention of arresting her or charging her.
Yes, if believe in unicorns, I guess one could believe that.
Besides having the memo has a base that the FBI lied which is indisputable, but Nunes is not finished, more to come and now he will check records from Obama’s State Department and then the DOJ. Now the tables are turning and the Dems, the DOJ are coming under more scrutiny and there might be a second special counsel appointed to investigate the Feds, which they’re now moaning about. The FBI wants Trump and the GOP to be patient, now the intelligence agency need to be patient and let’s see where this goes.
SuperLib
This is really the first piece. You want a theory that makes Comey pro-Hillary in his head while his outward actions are pro-Trump. So he personally wanted to hide the Clinton information because he was corrupt, but someone else, an unknown figure within the FBI, had the means and the opportunity to force his hand. Comey helps Trump, but he's reluctant, so he isn't really pro-Trump. That's where you ultimately want to be.
So it's abut his internal struggle at failing at his corrupt plan to take down Trump by taking down Clinton. Not good statements for you to make, doesn't really help anything.
Not a good statement. Clinton trounced him in the popular vote, so if losing by millions of votes is the silent Trump voters in force then... Trump won because of the location of the votes, not the number. Try a new angle next time, but check your logic before writing.
Be careful trying to imagine too many connections in your imagination. For example we know Don Jr. lied about his meeting with the Russians because we have proof. And we know he worked with Wikileaks to release stolen DNC information because we have proof. We aren't saying Don Jr. did this and the proof is that he hated Clinton and would do anything to get her.
Anyway, we have three competing answers:
Bass: Comey hated both Hillary and Trump and got both of them.
Wolfpack: Comey was forced to help Trump against his will because of some kind of unknown influence in the FBI.
Black: Comey was forced to release it by the NY FBI office and it was all about following proper legal procedure.
Any others?
You guys are a bit behind the eight ball on this. Outside of the bubble, people have been mentioning it for quite a while, but those of you inside the bubble can't even see the hard logic fails of your position since you don't do your own research and you don't question what right-wing media/politicians tell you. Now you're stuck imagining possible answers since it's never even crossed your mind, and you three are all over the place since you haven't been given a script yet.
At some point you'll have to have consensus to that question since it's an important piece of the puzzle. Start crackin'. The Russians will cover for you.
WilliB
Got to love these twisted headlines by the lamestreamm media. (Any wonder why they are becoming a laughing stock?) Fact is that this memo (unsurprisingly to those who read outside the echo chamber of CNN and NYT) clearly shows the Clinton family and DNC as what they are... criminal organizations who tried to undermined the rule of law. Now watch how the lamestream media tries to put lipstick on this pig....
Wolfpack
Comey sat on the Huma/ Weiner emails for nearly a month. But let’s not forget how the same Dems that are attacking Republicans now we’re saying that the FBI was corrupt and that Comey should be fired.
Comey likely had pressure from someone inside the FBI for holding back the new evidence and forced his hand. He probably reasoned, like everyone else in the country, that Trump had no chance to win. Comey let Hillary off the hook when he himself admitted she had classified documents on her private server but then immunized himself from charges of favoritism by the last minute announcement when he thought she would win anyway. That also makes him politically untouchable when Hillary inevitably became president.
All that went out the window when the silent Trump voters came out in force in 30 of the 50 states. Now Comey is angry and lashing out at Republicans for his own miscalculations.
meija
HD, don't you know that investigating a FORMER Trump staffer who has known links to an acknowledged Russian spy is clear evidence of leftist bias and an inability to form coherent thoughts...
HonestDictator
Another thing that comes to mind is why are they trying so hard to undermine the entire federal justice system? That alone shows that they're so deep in mud and swamp stank they're too afraid of what will be exposed.
HonestDictator
Mmm, smells like obstruction to me. And some republicans in office are supporting said obstruction. Party before country. If there was nothing to hide, then they should let the investigation finish from beginning to end because there would be NOTHING to HIDE.
This whole show is about something dirty that implicates GOP members and they don't want it exposed because they know it will mean the death of the party or just their own personal political careers.
meija
Yep... Comey was cheering Hillary so much that he announced a new investigation into Hillary's emails just before the election... Clearly an act of a devoted devotee... Sorry, black, but I'll vote for "making it up" over any actual evidence to show otherwise, unless you have some ACTUAL evidence to show otherwise...
Blacklabel
Let me repeat. Comey HAD TO reopen the investigation when the New York FBI office found classified emails on Weiners laptop and told Rudy Guiliani about it. He also closed the investigation back down as soon as he could to limit the damage. Hillary still won the popular vote, as liberals love to point out so it didn’t hurt her much.
Blacklabel
It’s you guys favorite media sources that said all that. WaPo and CNN and NY Times and all their anonymous sources. Not like I saw it all in Fox News. No way Comey wasn’t cheering for Hillary based on what he allowed his subordinates to do.
meija
Oh, news reports. We all know that the news is always correct, that's why we know Trump is both the greatest president ever and also the worst... depending on the news you read, but clearly it's the news, so it's right... You don't need to make it up when there are others who'll do it for you...
Blacklabel
It’s all contained in news reports either back then or recently as far as the Strok and McCabe stuff. Not like I made anything up.
meija
Blacklabel... wow... very interesting read. I was very entertained. Now, all we need is some sort of evidence that this isn't some teenage girl politico fan fic... I can't wait for chapter 2 where Comey and Hillary get funky together and lead the U.S. to a new socialist utopia...
Blacklabel
@suprerlib Comey wanted Hillary to win. If not for himself but because McCabe and his other inner circle did. That’s why he let Strok rewrite the meno that changed enough words where he didn’t have to charge Hillary with an actual crime.
Everything was cool until Weiner got caught with the underage girl and FBI got his laptop with the classified mails. He and McCabe tried to hide it until after the election but was too long left.
NY office of FBI threatened to tell that they delayed 30 days already so they had to come out with it, then covered it up again by going though 600,000 mails in like a week with no intention of finding anything.
Comey always been pro Hillary and spent all his time trying to find a way to get rid of Trump after the election. By now he is a pompous jerk on twitter with a disgraced legacy.
mukashiyokatta
Frantic desperation by the Dotard -- the noose is tightening.
meija
I'm guessing that the people who earn a living to know things don't actually know much at all... I'm all for accountability... and that includes unnamed people who probably said some things that maybe had words that showed things that proved you were right... right? I can respect that.
SuperLib
I suppose that's as good a reason as any other, but you might have a hard time convincing conservatives here that Comey intentionally chose to give Trump a big win because he didn't like Clinton.
Blacklabel, your thoughts on bass' theory?
M3M3M3
@SuperLib
For what it's worth, I think the FBI is a huge and unwieldy organisation. I can imagine a scenario where both those who opposed Trump and those who supported him may have been interested in acquiring information through the FISA warrant. One group in order to possibly release it before the election and the other group to suppress it if it turned out to exist. Any form of knowledge is power for the intel agencies, so I don't buy the premise that Trump supporters in the agency would have vehemently opposed the warrants. Ultimately, I think everyone who misled the FISA court should be held accountable regardless of what their motivations were.
@meija - Totally agree. well said.
bass4funk
Which was never his call to make either way.
Not sure since Comey couldn’t stand Trump, but hated Hillary equally, gave Trump a win, but wouldn’t issue an indicatment but exonerate her
meija
... I ran out of "isms"... lol!
meija
I'm all for investigating 'nothing burgers'. In a healthy democracy, we need to make sure that things are working as they should. Corruption is the enemy of democracy. Corruption should always be investigated, no matter what your own political beliefs... I'll never support attempts to shut down investigations into political machinations. Let the FBI investigate... if no wrong has been done, then that'll be shown. If we get to the point where we can no long trust the gatekeepers of democracy, then we fall into fascism, totalitarianism or some other very scary thing...
SuperLib
I'm not a big fan of "they didn't like Trump" since "they" includes a person who supported reopening the investigation into Clinton and another who decided to announce it to the world days before the election. I've not heard much of an explanation as to how delivering a big win to Trump days before the election would be a path taken by people who were trying to stop since it's obviously illogical. What's your opinion?
Serrano
We really need to vote out the Democrats, who put their party over what's good for the country.
Oh my...
BREAKING: FISA MEMO EXPOSED MILLIONS FROM CLINTON TO FUSION GPS, CHRISTOPHER STEELE AND RUSSIA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKUMXTgDMBU
bass4funk
It might not have to, the way this has been going and the new revelations that have been surfacing, it just might come to screeching halt.
Lying doesn’t equal collusion.
What about liberals? Are they hoping this is their chance that Trump will fall, get a walk down the gallows and have the prison gates locked on him?
M3M3M3
Meija, I agree with you 110%. Also with your post at 10:59. The more evidence the better, even if it turns out to be a 'nothing burger'.
meija
Most... but there are clearly some here whose minds are quite closed...
Which is why we need to allow the appropriate authorities to investigate. I totally agree. We need accountability. What we also need is to make sure that the government disseminates correct information. There are a number of points in this memo that twist facts for political gain. Yes, we need to make sure the FBI are unbiased in their investigations, but we also need to be sure that governments don't abuse their power. As you say, we live in a complex world.
M3M3M3
@SuperLib
I certainly don't (but I'm not exactly a conservative). I think most open minded people are perfectly willing to entertain the possibility that the Trump campaign might have been colluding with Russia, while at the very same time some in the FBI and DOJ were obstructing justice to gather intelligence on a candidate they didn't want in the Whitehouse.
Why can't both of these be true? One does not disprove the other. We live in a complex world full of scheming and wrongdoing.
meija
Sigh... I agree that you can't trust Wikipedia. I haven't visited that site in a long, long time. "Look it up" means go to the source. Go to the Comey public testimony. I don't know who these "people" are you're reading, but I'm suspecting that they're feeding you some serious BS. If you need help (and I shouldn't have to point you anywhere as it would imply that all of your arguments thus far have been uninformed), but read this...
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/08/full-text-james-comey-trump-russia-testimony-239295
M3M3M3
@Tommy Jones
Correct. A material fact is anything that could reasonably affect the outcome of the decision.
I never said that Brady disclosures themselves are relevant in this case. Only that the duty to disclose is so widely known and accepted as an essential feature of due process that the name of the SCOTUS case which confirmed this fact is referenced by name across the American legal system. Your refusal to accept that the FBI has any duty to disclose evidence favourable to the subject of the warrant is simply wrong. If that were true, no warrant in the FISA court would ever be denied for obvious reasons.
SuperLib
Lots of interesting legal theories here. Should provide for a nice debate on morning talk shows and political websites.
I get the feeling that conservatives think this might be a path to getting all charges dropped against Trump's team? And perhaps and end to the investigation without questions answered, like why did Trump's team consistently lie about their involvement with the Russians?
Is that what Trump fans are hoping for? Everything just goes away? Manafort walks? Trump and Trump Jr. never have to answer questions?
bass4funk
Yes and it's still just as bad, doesn’t change the outlook or intent.
Exactly, you just read my mind.
They are both of the Washington establishment, so yes, it does make a whole lot of sense.
I did, but as I said, I go with the people that earn a living and know this, not what Wikipedia says.
M3M3M3
@takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
There will certainly be all sorts of differing legal opinions on this, as there are on any issue. Ultimately everyone agrees that the FBI and DOJ have a duty to disclose, but how far that duty extends is up for debate. Unfortunately, even if someone is prosecuted for obstruction of justice based on this, we may never get a properly defined standard. We will only discover whether the jury finds them to be guilty or not guilty.
In my opinion it is. The principle from Brady v Maryland is that when in doubt, you disclose. But we will have to wait and see I suppose.
But they only fell for it because they were not given the facts in violation of the law. The unique procedure in the FISA court means that they are vulnerable to being abused like this.
About Nunes motives for authorising the FISA court, I don't really have an opinion either way. Perhaps he thought the good it produces outweighs a single case of abuse?
If there were, it's very unlikely that they would ever admit it. In any event, there is no definitively correct legal answer to this question that a lawyer could give you. The most they could do is highlight a few possibilities and tell you which was most likely to be the consensus opinion. If you spend a few hours researching the FISA court online, you can be better informed on the issue than any small time personal injury lawyer out there. The only benefit lawyers have is that their knowledge of the general principles of the legal system allow them to avoid entertaining ridiculous assertions (such as the government having no obligation at all to disclose weaknesses in an ex parte hearing).
meija
No, it's the truth. Look it up.
meija
Look, this is the last thing that I'm going to say on this. I don't care if you vote Republican or Democrat. Everyone should stand up for what they believe and vote accordingly. The stupidity that really really really frustrates me is when people as so partisan that they can't see what is right in front of them, and comments on stories like this illustrate the problem. Serious accusations should be investigated. Hillary's emails should be investigated by the appropriate authorities. Accusations of Russian meddling in elections should also be investigated. Stupid partisan arguments and twisting of facts like we've seen in the Nune memo serve no purpose except to undermine democratic process. Personally, politically, I lean to the right, but I refuse to accept partisan untruths that serve no other purpose than to obstruct justice for political purposes. That's call corruption. I refuse to accept corruption in any for because it destroys democratic societies. Anyone of integrity, no matter what side of politics they stand for, should always speak up in regards to corruption. It is clear that there is, at least, issues that need to be investigated here. It is also clear that the Nunes memo and most of the arguments put forwards in support seem to be intended far more to shut down any investigation than to actually find the true. It's almost as if the those supporting this memo and demanding the investigation be shut down are so frightened of it because they know what it will uncover. If there is no wrong doing, then nothing will be uncovered. You and I can't judge that, it needs to be properly investigated.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
The Dossier was used for a FISA warrant application before the election.
Generally a more reasonable, nuanced opinion than pretending words don't have meanings and we can choose pick and choose the ones we like.
If the GOP were in on it, then it definitely was a left-wing conspiracy. Makes sense ;)
bass4funk
Not fake, if it were the FBI wouldn’t have a problem with its release, there is nothing in their that was a danger to national security, just a huge embarrassment and an even more insight of biblical proportions now circling the Agency and the DOJ.
To sabatoge a duly elected President? Oh, no not at all, just business as usual.
Yes, the GOP started it, but then of course it became more imperative to the Dems to use it because in case you didn’t know this, but Hillary is a Democrat that was running against Trump and tried to win......tried.
Ok, that’s one opinion.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Riiiiggghttt...Which is why it was used as evidence? Sure. Fake ;)
Its dishonest to paint this is as some DNC hatchet job, completely ignoring GOP candidates/conservative media started it. But considering the source, not surprising.
meija
No... simple concept... context isn't grammar. Examples of "out of context"... saying "Comey himself, under oath, admitted the dossier was 'salacious and unverified'" when Comey was referring to parts of the dossier that were indeed 'salacious and unverified'. "Out of context" is to take that statement about part of the dossier and assuming that it described the whole thing when Comey declined to comment on the actual criminal allegations. THAT is "out of context".
bass4funk
I’m not saying anything, that’s why I watch the experts, so I’ll take their word on the subject.
It’s fake and I can read, so yes, it won't change no matter how many times you keep repeating that same line.
But the Dems took it over and ran with it.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Not to mention the substantial difference in legal standards between getting a warrant "probable cause" and proving criminal culpability "guilt beyond reasonable doubt."
Blacklabel
Also by the end of this I anticipate the charges against General Flynn will be dropped due to all this FBI malfeasance. If you remember Comey originally said he didn’t lie but then changed his mind when his anti Trump boy Peter Strok showed up
Blacklabel
We need FISA we just don’t need it being misused to spy on US citizens and political rivals or the current President like Comey, Yates and Rosenstein allowed. The “F” in FISA stands for foreign, not American, doesn’t it?
I also find it interesting that somehow it was ok to spy on Trump because of what carter page was supposedly doing. Yet what crime has Mr Page been indicted on?
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Its not fake, and that won't change no matter how many times you keep repeating that same line.
Also, you "forgot" where the dossier originated- not with the Dems.
Irony. :D
Tommy Jones
Brady Disclosures are made to defendants, not the court. This means it is an inapplicable doctrine to getting a warrant.
FISA Rule 13(a) refers to a material fact being omitted. You're assuming that Steele's alleged bias is a material fact and so was the second source of funding for the dossier.
bass4funk
What, that we don’t follow the Trump bandwagon hate train because it doesn’t fit with the liberal narrative of being a groupie hate group. My deepest apologies.
By resigning and taking a sizable pension with them,
Interesting, the Democrats tried bought and paid fo this fake dossier and weaponized the FBI (which lied now on the record and indisputable) to overthrow a sitting President and you say the Republicans are the enablers? I don’t know if I should laugh or if I should “laugh.”
I don’t go by what you say, I go by what the law says and according to Dershowitz, Turley and Nalpolitano, you do, so that’s one liberal (Clinton supporter) one neutral and one libertarian between them, they have over 80 years experience, so thanks for your take, I appreciate the kind curtesy, I really do, but I do decline.
But they did. That’s an indisputable fact. Steele compiled this fake dossier and Hillary and the Dems still used it even though Steele compromised himself by talking to the media, as soon as he was let go, the dossier was invalid and yet, the Dems and Hillary still used it which they weren’t supposed to.
You mean the grammar correction, that was duly noted and verified.
Like what? Embarrassing the FBI? Good, it should and glad it did. Nunes should have a parade and a red carpet event.
To claim otherwise is being willfully ignorant.
gcbel
The Trump regime is do desperate to impugn the FBI and DOJ , you gotta think there’s something there. You wouldn’t be so desperate and run the risk of obstruction of justice charged (unless stupidity of. Ourse) if there wasn’t worse to uncover.
DTS that is the WH
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Lol Matt shouldn't even be driving much less in congress.
Serrano
Northernlife: "Oh my we could go at it all day..."
Sure! Oh my...
All Americans should be concerned with FISA memo: Rep. Gaetz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgEO3A7xzmw
Oh my...
Ingraham: Revelations of FISA memo and what you need to know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6mZKLsZjfc
meija
I, for one, deeply wish Trump would fulfill his promise to drain the swamp. This was always the problem with the Clinton campaign, you knew nothing would change. Unfortunately, the swamp is deeper today than it was 12 months ago. Forget the wall, twitter and everything else, if Trump ever does manage to drain the swamp (I'm not holding me breath), then I would consider that a successful presidency.
SuperLib
Mueller will continue to investigate the swamp on Trump's team. Let's hope for more exposing of their lies, especially Don Jr. It will be interesting to hear him answer Mueller's questions about exactly why he was working with the Russians and why he lied about it.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Ah, except apparently you can. Read a bit further in the article.:
I'm not a lawyer and I'm willing to bet there are no other lawyers here. While I understand what you are saying, I think the laws you are quoting have a commonly understood legal definition. Omitting the fact that the "Dossier" was funded in part by the DNC was not material, so no foul. Again, not a legal expert- just following what's being reported.
I'm not certain there is an abuse of the FISA courts. What you are suggesting is that the FBI mislead the FISA court and they actually fell for it. I also question the the motives of Nunes and the other GOP members of the committee.
Nunes was supposed to have recused himself from the Russia investigation following the little stunt he pulled rushing over to the white house to share classified information in the dead of night.
On 1/11 he voted in favor of reauthorizing the FISA courts. Now, he claims they are being abused? How did he not know about this when he voted for it 3 weeks ago, and why did he vote in favor of a bill without properly studying it? He either screwed up then or is being less than honest now.
After ignoring the warning by the FBI, the GOP majority of the committee voted to release the memo. Simultaneously rejecting the Democrat's rebuttal to the memo. While claiming to be for transparency, they refused to share underlying intelligence. Hell, Nunes never even read the underlying intelligence. Furthermore, Nunes edited the memo without informing the committee, and would not answer questions regarding whether the white house had contributed to the memo in any way.
After all of this, would it be a stretch to assume that Nunes isn't actually interested in transparency or any interest in fixing problems with the FISA courts, whatever he believes them to be?
meija
Blacklabel: "Hillary paid foreign entities (including Russians) for "salacious and unverified" information about Trump - FACT"
BBC: "The memo notes that Steele's efforts were funded in part by the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, although it neglects to mention that the Fusion GPS opposition research effort directed toward Mr Trump was originally bankrolled by a prominent conservative donor and activist."
Blacklabel: "Comey himself, under oath, admitted the dossier was "salacious and unverified" even though he signed the forms authorizing its use in obtaining a FISA warrant - FACT"
BBC: "Yes, Mr Comey used the words "salacious and unverified" - but that was only in relation to portions of the dossier. He declined to comment on the veracity of certain "criminal allegations" in other parts of the dossier - at least in open testimony. "
Just 2 examples of how FACTS can be twisted when used for political purposes...
An interesting non-partisan look at the memo: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42827167
ClippetyClop
This GOP mob truly are a sorry bunch. It has taken them a year to find a way to try to delegitimize the people who are investigating their Svengali boss. And when they do it's a rubbish one. Back in the day they would have had some similar nonsense whipped up in a matter of weeks whilst they cooked up something more preposterous.
Blacklabel
not mine but i agree:
Hillary paid foreign entities (including Russians) for "salacious and unverified" information about Trump - FACT
That salacious and unverified information was presented to a FISA court while intentionally omitting its source and funding - FACT
The surveillance warrant would not have been granted without the dossier, according to McCabe himself - FACT
Comey himself, under oath, admitted the dossier was "salacious and unverified" even though he signed the forms authorizing its use in obtaining a FISA warrant - FACT
It was concealed from the FISA court that the source of the Yahoo story used to "corroborate" the dossier was, in fact, the same compromised and fired Christopher Steele who wrote the dossier - FACT
Anyone who thinks this memo doesn't show clear malfeasance by people in the DOJ and FBI is saying, explicitly, that these are the rules now, and if Trump and the RNC does it to his 2020 opponent its 100% allowed.
3 times renewed AFTER Trump was already in office. That’s shocking to spy on the President himself.
meija
So true. Of course, the investigation will be based on actual information, not tenuous attempts to link dossiers to former Trump staffers after they'd already left the Trump team to an investigation that had already started as a result of a tip-off from an allied conservative country who considered this serious enough to let the U.S. authorities know... I completely agree with FizzBit and say "unleash the hounds!" Daylight is a great disinfectant. Thank goodness we have trained investigators to look into this and we don't have to rely on the opinions of partisan hacks...
serendipitous1
Obstruction of justice in the political sense, where Trump is mired now, it’s like quicksand – you can’t better your own situation by thrashing around. The only thing you can do is be still and wait for someone else to bail you out. The problem for the president is he keeps thrashing around, and he keeps sinking further into the mire and muck.
M3M3M3
Forget about Trump for a minute, forget about the Russia investigation, and leave politics entirely out of this, does it at least concern you that the FBI and DOJ are misleading the FISA court to secure these warrants? This was the nightmare scenario that every privacy advocate warned about when these secret mass surveillance wiretaps became common. I really couldn't care less about Trump, but it's a shame that the wider scandal here is being brushed aside simply because the ultimate target of these FISA warrants is so widely despised. What if the shoe was on the other foot and you had republican FBI agents misleading the FISA court to secure 24h surveillance of the Obama campaign? Would that be a manufactured scandal?
sf2k
Further analysis shows it to be a silly WH+Nunes scam, but USA is full of GOP suckers who couldn't screw in a lightbulb, so that's all that matters. Accusing your foes of what you are instead doing yourself would be easier to get away with if it wasn't for a free media and Internet showing the entire world just how stupid the USA has become.
René Pihlak
So, Trump team writes some memo (similar to facebook post) and the Reps are shouting "see, see, there's proof!"
M3M3M3
@takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
I'm certainly open to new evidence. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see what else comes out.
This is from the Washington post article alleging that the court was aware:
So even if we take this claim entirely at face value, it still seems to fall short of the disclosure requirements. Disclosure needs to be full and frank. You can't just leave a trail of breadcrumbs in your submissions and then say that the judge must have drawn certain conclusions that would have led him to the disclosures you were supposed to make in the first place.
FizzBit
Oh, you think this is over? This is just a memo. Wait until in investigators start wading into this. This is just the beginning.
Peace through trade? Those days were gone a long time ago. Mid seventies I'd say. Now it's the power of the Petrodollar. Don't get in it's way. Just ask Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad, etc.
sf2k
USA invented modern globalism as a means of keeping the peace through trade. To trash it like it's a new epitaph is just ignorant and sad that you would through away your legacy. But that's USA today. Circling the drain and picking up speed.
Has until the midterms to last, either GOP's quest for totalitarian power it taken from them, or they seize it before then
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Of course!
No one is a better example of a hegemonic gobalist than Donny;)
FizzBit
@zichi
Another hegemonic globalist.
Common sense says there is no military threat nor any economic threat. What other kind of threat could he be talking about? Gas and oil pipelines of course.
Madverts
Well I count one perhaps two authentic Americans defending Trump here. Kinda sez it all.
What will be interesting to see is how the intelligence agencies, particularly the FBI retaliate to this cherry-picked weapon of mass distraction. It's pretty obvious that some people have been wearing wires.
Never forget the enemy of democracy, the insane Republican party. The enablers of this moron's ascent to power.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Devin Nunes voted in favor of reauthorizing the FISA courts on January. Is he just an idiot or a hopeless partisan hack?
Kind of irrelevant now, isn't it?
http://www.businessinsider.com/nunes-memo-fisa-court-steele-dossier-argument-debunked-2018-2
So, who do I trust? Hmmmmm
meija
A quote from the "Nunes memo": 5) The Page FISA application also mentions information regarding fellow trump campaign advisor George Papadopoulos, but there is no evidence of any cooperation or conspiracy between Page and Papadopoulos. The Papadopoulos information triggered the opening of an FBI counterintelligence investigation in late July by FBI agent Pete Strzok."
People should be reminded that the investigation into Russian interference in the U.S. election came as a result of a tip-off by the Australian government after George Papadopoulos drunkenly boasted of Russia's involvement to Australian diplomat and former conservative politician Alexander Downer. Papadopoulos has already pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI. As the BBC reports: "(Page) The unpaid Trump campaign adviser had been on the FBI's radar since 2013, because of his ties to a Russian bank executive who was later convicted of spying on the US. Page had resigned as a Trump foreign policy adviser in September 2016 - a month before the Fisa warrant was approved."
Seriously, if anyone here thinks this shouldn't be investigated then they might as well hoist a fascist flag right up their flagpole because you can bet that they'd be screaming blue murder if was about the other side of politics. I think it's pretty clear that Trump himself wasn't involved in this, but it is clear that the Russians certainly tried to get involved. This NEEDS to be investigated. You can cry crocodile tears about dossiers all you want, but that won't be able to hide this huge steaming pile under a rug where no one will see it... People in power need to be held accountable. It's as simple as that.
FizzBit
Nice work M3M3M3
Except, conspiracy theory is now conspiracy fact.
The Dems are doomed for the most part for the next elections.
RichardPearce
This memo isn't aimed at those Americans who never wanted Trump, and are using the conspiracy theory approach of first blaming Russia/Putin for America's voting Trump into office, then convincing themselves that the evidence supports their conspiracy theories.
It's aimed at those Americans who voted Trump, to offer them their own conspiracy theories to counteract the witchhunt and echo chamber of the 'Russia made people vote for Trump' campaign.
And in true 'politics makes for strange bedfellows' fashion, the 'liberal' side of the American political establishment is siding with the internal spy services and using the 'guilty until proven innocent' standard, while the 'law and order' side is now disclosing how easy it is to be deemed a 'legitimate' target for secret police monitoring and 'guilt by association' tactics.
M3M3M3
Let me paste Rule 13 a) of the FISA Court for those who might not have time to look it up (emphasis is mine):
*If the government discovers that a submission to the Court contained a misstatement or omission of material fact, the government, in writing, must immediately inform the Judge to whom the submission was made of: (1) the misstatement or omission; (2) any necessary correction; (3) the facts and circumstances relevant to the misstatement or omission; ( 4) any modifications the government has made or proposes to make in how it will implement any authority or approval granted by the Court; and (5) how the government proposes to dispose of or treat any information obtained as a result of the misstatement or omission. *
Blacklabel
Why did Dems and the FBI who read it lie about the contents? Was no grave concerns or sources or methods or anything classified. They knew this just didn’t want the truth out. On to the next memo where we should learn more.
Blacklabel
That was a pretty good trick to leak info to a substandard news source, get them to write an article, then use the article as proof that what you put in your fake dossier is true.
I think we would be shocked how many times news articles from leakers are used to corroborate the story of the leakers.
M3M3M3
@Tommy Jones
You haven't been looking hard enough. The duty is found in the due process clauses of both the 5th and 14th amendments as laid out in Brady v Maryland (hence the name Brady disclosure, Brady material etc) and also specifically the FISA court rules of procedure s.13 a) & b). I think you are out of your depth on this one.
Blacklabel
“Dishonest and misleading memo wrecked the House intel committee, destroyed trust with Intelligence Community, damaged relationship with FISA court, and inexcusably exposed classified investigation of an American citizen.....”
so it did all this, yet it contained nothing important?
PTownsend
During the election we read posts deriding Clinton as a warmonger, a nepotist, as someone with conflicts of interest and tied to Wall Street. Plus they claimed she was a habitual liar. Now many of these same posters who attacked her are lauding Trump for his warmongering, nepotism, conflicts of interest, ties to Wall Street (keep your enemies close - hehe) and even defend his lies.
In his follower’s eyes Trump can do no wrong. It’s not about principles or patriotism with them: it’s following a leader. Even if the leader is a known criminal. Read Eric Hoffer's True Believers. Or books about the 1930's.
sf2k
you know this is wrong when every rabid right wing nutter here supports it
Tommy Jones
It began the moment a court ruled against Trump regarding the first Muslim Ban.
FizzBit
Not a Repub, and neither is McCain. Never liked him. He's one of the reasons Obama got my vote in 2008.
@zichi
I know you're a Brit. "You guys" refers to those still adhering to the "Russia/Putin is a threat" globalists campaign.
Tommy Jones
Takeda: Anonymous sources = fake news. Everyone knows that. We need proof.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Apparently the FISC was made aware of the politically motivated nature of the dossier.
Doh!
http://www.businessinsider.com/nunes-memo-fisa-court-steele-dossier-argument-debunked-2018-2
What's next? Attack the courts now?
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
Ahh, McCain is a traitor now? But not 5 time draft dodger, Donny?hahahah
How is dodger Donny not a globalist? How many countries does he do business in? How many illegal immigrants has he married or hired? Hilarious.
meija
Disband the FBI, disband the CIA, disband the justice department and all other legal avenues to make sure that the government isn't corrupt for investigating potential foreign interference in elections that has already seem several individuals plead their guilt. It's true, though, that everything would run more smoothly if the president were accountable to no one. ...Of course, you'd have to stop pretending that the U.S. was a democracy then, but if that's what you really want...
Laguna
How Repubs turn vicious on their former heroes is fascinating to see, particularly as the individuals stances do not change, but the party grows more extreme. Happened with GHB, GWB, and with McCain (and Romney). Eventually, the same will happen with Trump, and all those so eagerly defending him now will be equally eager to trash him once his veneer has worn. The whole "He was never a Republican!" treatment will happen, and you will conveniently forget the posts you're writing today and jump on the bandwagon. I know this because you've done it before, with McCain.
Texas A&M Aggie
@smartacusToday 04:23 pm JST
The polarization you refer to is one that can be laid at the democrats doorstep. Go and watch the SOTU address you'll see them sitting on their hands and refusing to acknowledge the great things President Trump has done for this country despite #resistence from the uniparty and the NWO-controlled media (actually, one in the same).
If they don't like President Trump, fine. But the most telling thing that night was when they were unwilling to show any sympathy for the two black families whose daughters were brutally murdered by MS-13 gangmembers; choosing instead to sit silent or play Candy Crush on their phones. To them, importing illegal immigrants today with the goal of making them registered voters tomorrow to replace the ones who have escaped the democrat plantation was more important than at least going through the motions of grieving along with the rest of the nation with two native born families. It was at that moment that Americans witnessed/realized the polarizing democrats had become so far left that they left this country.
Now with the release of the unredacted memo, you can smell the democrats' fear that is so strong that it is coming out of their pores. Their brand will be forever tainted by what was presented to the court of public option. Their irrelevant party's death spiral continues.. . . .
clamenza
Oh my indeed. When your only rebuttal cites Salon.com and Vox, well.........Oh my!
smartacus
Texas
So you think Trump is the greatest president ever, do you? Greater than Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, FDR? It's because of people with such extreme views as yours (and on the other side as well) that American politics has become so polarized and is ripping the country's social fabric to shreds. It will take decades for the U.S. to get over this division.
Serrano
Oh my...
Rep. Matt Gaetz on the release of declassified FISA memo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpv4jv-QjBM
Tommy Jones
Ye-Ha. I have been looking through the Federal Rules of Evidence, SCOTUS cases examining probable cause, etc. and have not found this alleged duty to disclose all information to a judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant.
Texas A&M Aggie
This is only the opening salvo against the Deep State. Wait until the DoJ IG's report is released.
Preident Trump is keeping another campaign promise: To drain The Swamp.
Greatest.President.Ever.
MAGA
Serrano
Oh my...
What we've learned from the infamous FISA memo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RMSO74NaMs
Wallace Fred
Memos just come out Tommy. And its not the last item on the menu. Down the road, more illuminating detailed information will come to light.
Serrano
Oh my...
FISA memo reason enough to halt the Mueller investigation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR26Pziq2Ko
Tommy Jones
Wallace: You still haven't provided any evidence that the FBI lied to obtain the FISA warrant. They FBI may have not disclosed every aspect of the evidence, but there is no requirement that the FBI disclose everything to get a warrant. If you claim otherwise, I need a cite.
FizzBit
Senator John McCain!?
You guys have really lost it.
Globalist traitor.
Wallace Fred
(SIGH)
The key points of the memo that was just published:
If the above memo proves to be correct one can conclude that a Democratic front organization created "evidence" that was then used by the FBI and the Obama Justice Department to get FISA warrants to spy on someone with intimate contacts into the Trump campaign.
The Democrats as well as the FBI have done their utmost to keep this secret.
Carter Page was a relative low ranking volunteer advisor of the Trump campaign with some business contacts to Russia. He had officially left the campaign shortly before the above FISA warrant was requested.
Andrew McCabe was an FBI assistant director. A few month earlier his wife ran for a Virginia State Senate seat with the help of $700,000 she had received from Clinton allies.
The wife of DOJ official Bruce Ohr worked for Fusion GPS, the outlet hired by the Democrats to find Trump dirt. Fusion GPS hired the former British agent Steele.
The former British spy Steele had been hired by the Democratic Party via Fusion GPS to dig up dirt about Donald Trump. He came back with a package of "reports" which alleged that Trump was "colluding" with Russia or even a puppet of Putin.
Strangerland
Are the pubs still trying to frame this as having some sort of meaning still?
Tommy Jones
Nice cites to the requirement that the FBI disclose every piece of evidence to obtain a FISA warrant.
Of course, the FBI cannot lie to get a warrant, but nowhere is that alleged in the memo.
mukashiyokatta
How DAMP was that squib, ladies and gents?! The answer lies in the stock market CRASH of Friday. "America has had it, so sell, sell, sell." And who is buying up those dumped stocks? -- the Chinese and the Russians! It's the changing of the guard!
FizzBit
Ha. Funny.
Its a title from a movie. Have you seen it? Ya know, where a Russian sub accidentally strands itself near a small US town, and then hysterical rumors spread that it's a Russian invasion. One of the best comedies ever. I highly recommend it. Ironically, the posts here remind me of those same hysterical comedians from the movie. Scary part is, many have been MSM/Hillary brainwashed and are not acting.
takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com
1) Its not "fake."
2) The FISA warrant needs more evidence than one dossier.
3) The warrant was extended, meaning they found something when monitoring Page.
And by the GoP before that, don't forget that little detail.
Considering he wasnt the head of DNC when the dossier was written, I'd say that's a stretch.
JapanJim
@LagunaToday 01:03 pm JST
On FBI radar but never had a warrant to spy!
Despite knowing the Fusion GPS dossier to be fake, the FBI presented it to the FISA court and utilized it to obtain the Carter Page warrant. This same dossier was directly funded by the DNC and Clinton campaign. This memo also disproves McCabe and others who claimed that while FBI agents had political views they never succumbed to misusing their position to influence politics. This is probably why the DNC CEO resigned two days ago.
Jimizo
Okay. Explain his accusations of a witch hunt explain lies in the context of US politics.
I think some people see Trump as a dangerous man-child unfit for office. Some people see him as appealing to racist sentiments. Others see him as pure trash lowering the dignity of the US. Some see him as a selfish man in politics to massage his own ego and inflate his bank account. Lots of answers.
I’ll try again. Can you explain why there have been so many lies from the Trump team surrounding Russia?
I just find it confusing that so many people would lie over a nothing burger. Don’t you?
clamenza
I suspect a few are simply exhausted from espousing opinions and beliefs they know are corrupt.
(Don't worry, though. They'll fight through it and carry on as before)
Laguna
Hmm. Could you explain to me why Carter was on the FBI radar a full two years before the Steele dossier was released? I mean, I know they're good at their jobs, but even they couldn't be so prognostic.
Wallace Fred
Curious why the usual loud voices here from the left are suspiciously silent.
Wallace Fred
Out of context ei? So thats why mcabe was forced out by wray then. Thanks for clearing that up.
This circular reason alone is enough to rein in the blatant corruption in the top echelons. Like I said, its not a partisan issue. Everyone is affected by this breach of trust and clear abuse of authority. I truly cant fathom why this is so difficult for many to understand.
PTownsend
And by doing so Trump's regime backed by the GOP and the .01% could then have total control of the US and its resources. All public lands could be there for their taking. I'm sure Trump and his fellow anti-American global corporatists would love to see intelligence agencies privatized. They've already got the US military doing their bidding, protecting their resource investments worldwide. Next step - the intelligence agencies and media.
By public do you mean roughly 35% of US Americans? Thanks to rightists, evangelicals and paid employees of authoritarian regimes those in that 35% have become increasingly anti-American. They want to see the balance of powers turned over to the executive, their dear leader. Too bad those same people continue to be suckered by the Trump regime; they're the ones bound to lose the most.
JapanJim
Many comments here just don't understand the matter.
Evidence was used to spy on an american in the United States. This evidence was paid for by The Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democrat party, and used by the FBI to get a FISA warrant to spy on an American. This Trump dossier was fabricated by a former MI6 agent who used Russian sources. This dossier was never "intelligence".
The FBI failed to disclose to the judge that the dossier was paid for by Hillary and the DNC. Even if it was only 25% of the evidence it should have never been used since it was all fabricated! The FBI and the Justice Dept failed to disclose this to the courts, and is a violation of many laws to deceive Judge in order to get a warrant.
Laguna
Fizz, you need to work on your verb tenses. The Russians are embedded now. And how do you think the Trump campaign could announce days before an Assange leak of hacked DNC emails that the leak would happen? (And that's not to mention their bots - notice how#releasethememo soared 100,000 times the moment it was promulgated?)
What's happening is pretty clear, though some clarification is required (hence Mueller): Russia hacks and obtains info that, out of context, is damaging; Russia passes the info to Anonymous or similar groups for dissemination; certain operatives of Republican candidates encourage this.
America is a free country, and if you want to be in Putin's pocket, that is your right (note: the reverse is very strictly not true, as numerous fatal "accidents" prove). It would be nice if you'd simply stop pretending where your sympathies lie, though.
Tommy Jones
Fizz: Hahaha. Very clever. Unfortunately, it is a baseless claim.
Tommy Jones
Please provide the cite to the applicable law requiring the FBI to submit all evidence for a judge to find probable cause. It does not exist.
The memo does not say anything about perjury.
The FBI had an issue with the memo being published because it is out of context, not because the FBI was worried about being exposed as corrupt. That is simply a conservative dream.
There are oodles of reasons for having objected to this memos release that do not include fear of being exposed as corrupt. To claim otherwise is being willfully ignorant.
bass4funk
That’s not true, also using perjury in order to obtain a FISA warrent is illegal. You need to find that a the person of interest is working for a foreign agent.
Then the FBI should have had No problem with the memo being published, instead of running like rats from a sinking ship and Shiff worrying and lying his rear off to make sure this memo would never see the light of day. Bought and paid for by the Democratic Party and the Hillary campaign.
Oh, the chickens are coming home and fast.
Yes, the Trump haters, but Thats not what the FBI or the DOJ or the Democratic Party thinks
Tommy Jones
Democrats did not weaponize the FBI. The FBI did not lie to get the warrant. Stop spreading falsehoods.
Now even the BBC is derided as somehow lacking credibility. Will Trumpophiles stop at nothing to defend their train wreck of a president?
bass4funk
BBC? Good lord.....
So now What?
But it now it seems like the lies from the Democrats and weaponizing the FBI in order to oust Trump and the lengths they went through to lie to spy on an opposition team and an incoming President is a lot worse.
Most foreigners don’t understand US politics.
How do you explain anti-Trump hysteria?
Does anyone have answers?
Tommy Jones
The FBI did not lie to obtain the warrant. Conservatives making up facts to fit their emotion-driven arguments.
clamenza
interesting wording in the JT headline here. Makes it sound as if this is nothing but a personal attack by Trump on Democrats when in fact it is the uncovering of the most corrupt abuses of power since Watergate.
Disappointing.
Tommy Jones
Two things:
(1) There is no requirement that the government submit all evidence for a judge to find probable cause for a FISA warrant. This means that the omissions the memo claims did not make the evidence false or illegal.
(2) While the republican initiated dossier may have formed an "essential" part of the application, it was not the only part.
Comservatibes getting wound up over a giant pile of steaming nothing.
Jimizo
Looking at it on the whole, why have there been so many lies from the Trump team surrounding Russia?
I just don’t get how accusations of a witch hunt explain these lies. Nor do I get how crazed anti-Trump hounds explain these lies.
Does anyone have answers?
FizzBit
whats really funny is that a Joe Mccarthy type today would be the hero of the left.
The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!
whats even more funny is the lefties keep whining about Russia but make NO acknowledgement that US is, has, and will continue to minipulate countries. Blinded by their precious emotions.
Midnight Sun Tribe
Alas, the trumpettes squeal to Putin's melody. I never thought I would see the Republicans so desperately siding with Soviets. I was dissapointed years past when they sold Taiwan out, but their totalitarian desires are ever-surprising. But, politics does, as is said, make strange bedfellows. And, of course, instead of having a leader, the USA is saddled with a dim-witted pathological liar that insists his speech was the most viewed event in the history of TV, that pictures from Obama's inauguration were actually taken through a time warp and belong to Trump. Why can't this fool get over the fact that he is not a popular person and simply accept that he is president... And get some real work done. Oh, that's right... Now that he has grown the deficit (and will continue to do so) and screwed the middle class to benefit his buddies, all his work is done. Back to the golf course for three years. If anyone could make the idiotic, power-fumbling, pave a road to hell democratics look slightly less stupid then they are, which is profoundly stupid, Trump's your man. And in the East, the bear is dancing.
Laguna
Hey, that's a new one! Now that the Nunes memo has been revealed to be as devoid of meaning, new marching orders are in order. Until they've been settled on, though, followers will simply flail.
Tokyo-Engr
@Fred - could not agree more - let's get to the bottom of this and soon I hope
katsu78
That the Russians tampered in the US 2016 election is only disputed by Trump-fanatics. Anyone with a shred of objectivity and information agrees the evidence supports it.
What Mueller has been taking his time on is not evidence of tampering, but whether or not that tampering happened as a part of collusion between the President of the United States and Putin's regime in Russia. I am very comfortable with Mueller taking his time on this, because as the Nunes memo shows, diving into these things without air-tight evidence undermines the process.
I just hope that by the time he's got his case, we still have a USA left for him to defend.
bass4funk
It probably will undermine it and scrutinize it a lot more, now that we now the FBI outright lied in order to obtain a FISA warrent, this is huge. Funny, when the Dems under Bush were so critical of the Feds spying on people, it was an outrage, now all of a sudden, we shouldn’t be alarmed. What I hate about libs is their in your face lies and dishonesty. If they would admit, “yes, I hate Trump and I want Mueller to use any inconceivable method to remove him from office” I would totally respect that viewpoint because at least it would be honest and direct, but this notion that, he’s an honorable man and his department are filled with honest patriotic agents is just laughable, I could never disrespect honesty, but I abhor liars and deception.
....And growing
You can’t believe what is already a known fact.
The only thing the FBI wanted to keep classified are the methods in which they used to lie their way to obtain a FISA warrent.
If they weren’t true, Pelosi, Shiff and the other Dems wouldn’t have had problems with it being released. Again, under Bush, the FBI and NSA were enemies of the nation, abuse of power and now these people exemplary models of decency and integrity? Lol
What makes me happy is that more is going to come outa now the Dems want their memos to come out and so do I as well as what the actual FISA warrents say and having McCabe, Comey, Rosenstein testify under oath.
It seems now that Trump’s approval is slowly rising that the people are now seeing once and for all that this investigation is not really what it’s supposed to be. We all know the Russians played a role in the election, but not to the level the FBI tried to make it out to be, but the DOJ, The Dems, Wasserman Schultz, Lois Lerner, the Obama administration, the Hillary mails and server, Yeah, now it all makes perfect sense.
The truth actually and now the Dems are scurrying like rats from a sinking ship, the truth is coming and it seems the top officials need to go to Office Depot and stock up on boxes.
Yes, sir.
SuperLib
Are you journalist with 30 years experience in political reporting?
SuperLib
Do Democrats have a plan to import Latinos in order to dilute the white population in America?
Wolfpack
The Russians used Hillary’s presidential campaign and the FBI to corrupt the American justice system and influence a presidential election. Now they have a special council attempting to overthrow a democratically elected president. Apparently Putin is the leader of the Dems #resistance. America has officially become a Banana Republic.
clamenza
and watching the Democrats scurry like cockroaches when a light is shone on them is as funny as it is pathetic,
Lock them up.
SuperLib
Is there a shadow society controlling the media in the world?
katsu78
The thing that legitimately worries me about this is not the memo itself - everyone who isn't a hyper-partisan Trump fanatic agrees there's nothing actually damaging in it. Nor am I worried the memo will undermine the Mueller investigation.
What worries me is we have a tiny cult of hard-core Trump supporters already trained to believe conspiracy theories that support their politics and to disregard evidence that doesn't. Now this memo is out that, because it references classified information and is just generally complicated to discuss, it's going to be hard for lay people to debunk Trump's conspiracy theories about the FBI. Not that those conspiracy theories are true, just that wading into the evidence and patiently explaining it takes far more time and effort than shouting "deep state" at the top of your lungs.
What worries me is that this will lead to further radicalizing Trump supporters. A small minority of Americans who, between Trump's lies and Russia's propaganda, have been immersed for years in stories about how everyone else in the world is out to get them and how they need to be ready to exercise violence on Trump's behalf. And now they're being told the lie that any part of the state that doesn't immediately acquiesce to Trump must be a conspiracy against the American people. This has the potential to get ugly fast.
stocktrader
FACT 1: The whole Russian thing was instigated and paid for BY THE DEMORATS based on a foreign spy's dodgy dossier.
FACT 2: Liberals are INSANE and have Trump Derrangement Syndrom.
bass4funk
It’s no wonder the Dems and the top officials at the FBI wanted to go to any length to keep the lid shut on this.
starpunk
Trump has been digging his own ditch since 2015. He has desecrated US flags by wiping his face on them, exploited pre-teen girls to act as cheerleaders for his personality cult, expressed lust for his daughter, incited violence at his rallies, spewed hate talk, refused to show his tax payments, defended neo-Nazi trash and countless other things. Now he talks about cooperation, unity and God and country. DON'T BELIEVE HIM. HE IS A LIAR and his actions speak louder. IMPEACH!!!
M3M3M3
When the FBI illegally presents only what they want a judge to see (rather than everything they have a duty to disclose), they can artificially manufacture a strong case every time. The oversight of the judges becomes illusory. The judges have no investigatory powers of their own. They can only decide the case on the basis of the evidence presented to them by the government and trust that full disclosure has in fact been made. This is the inherent weakness of the FISA system and the FBI couldn't resist the temptation to break the rules.
Tokyo-Engr
It seems to be over and over - repubs vs. Dems......Would be a great day to see the people (Americans) unite against both parties....but won't happen. The super rich will continue to get richer, the middle class will slowly disappear, and the only winners in the end will be inside the beltway
Tommy Jones
Fizz: Repugnant post.
Bass: Incoherent post.
Let's just sit back and watch the Trump Train Wreck presidency bang into the walls as it lurches forward. We can enjoy the chorus of conservative apologists screaming at the top of their lungs whatever they think may justify Trump's incompetence.
Sure, Trump and the Trumpophiles are doing extensive damage to the foundations of US democracy, but they've made clear their scorched earth policy. Not much sense trying to convince such people of anything bevause their minds are already made up.
Laguna
Or justice. Russia hacked American databases, stole emails, and released them on a selective schedule that it appears the Trump campaign was aware of. Do you not yhink getting to the bottom of this is important?
Regarding #memoflop, it's a classic "he said/she said" situation: Trump and his congressional handmaidens suggest it shows political bias by the FBI; FBI director Wray (handpicked by Trump well after the events portrayed in #memoflop took place) says underlying intelligence would prove such bias did not exist. Hmm. Who to believe?
bass4funk
Yes, but the ball has started to roll on scanning deeper of the corruption going on in the Department, not expecting changes overnight, but the insight has just begun and that’s the main focus.
It will, But now more scrutiny is on the department and now and Mueller and his merrily band of Democratic hit assassins.
FizzBit
OK! Here we go again, and again, and again with the phony accusations about Russia. The lefties have been repeating this BS so much they actually believe it now. Nothing can sort them out. It's like watching two retards arguing and one of them says to the other "you're retarded".
SuperLib
Again, it's the same people arguing for the same sides so nothing's changed.
Mueller's investigation will continue and Trump/parts of the GOP/the Russians will continue to obstruct.
bass4funk
Yes, liberals don’t get it, I’m not surprised. This memo was show proof that basically the FBI light in order to get a FISA warrent, that’s huge. Because now the sterling reputation that the FBI had is now shattered because the left and feds didn’t want this out. So to uninformed people it’s nothing, but to the feds and left that tried to keep this secret, this is huge and now we can put more pressure on th FBI and hold them accountable. Now that means more files are to come, calls of possibly calling McCabe back and having him testify under oath, add to that the memo the Democrats want out and to have more information to come out and to have those wheels turning is the first and most important step, if this wouldn’t have happened, the left would have continued this idiotic claim that the FBI at the senior level are honorable men and this has shown to be far from that.
M3M3M3
@Tommy Jones
The key to understanding why this is a scandal is to understand that the FISA court operates on very different principles from an ordinary court. In a normal court you have two sides at every hearing. The lawyers from one side are only required to present the best evidence and arguments which strengthen their case. The lawyers for the other side will then have the opportunity to raise all of these weak points and poke holes in the case before the judge comes to a decision.
In the FISA court, there is only one side presenting evidence. The lawyers have a special obligation imposed by the court to not only present all of the evidence that strengthens their case, but also all of the evidence which potentially weakens their case. Incomplete evidence is a failure to meet this disclosure obligation. The lie here is that they had made full disclosure to the FISA court when they knowingly had not.
Tommy Jones
False evidence is untrue evidence. The term you're looking for is incomplete evidence.
Tokyo-Engr
@fxgai - agree that this thing should be over! I do not think he will be impeached even though I think he is not fit for duty. Tax cuts were a good thing and I think they will result in increased revenue to the government in the long run and more money in people's pockets.
It is strange how this thing just drags on......the real end game for both sides is not justice...just power....
fxgai
When is the deadline for this investigation into whether suggestions of collusion between the genius Trump and the evil Russians to steal an election from the US public have any merit?
Why is it taking so long? Trump being such an idiot, you’d think the case would be closed by now. What gives?
I just thank god he got to kill some regulations and sign in those tax cuts before he is impeached.
Tokyo-Engr
@Strangerland - I am an American, very much against Trump but I have lost confidence in the FBI. I know several people like me as well.
@M3M3M3 - just read the text of the memo and I see it the same way.
Trump included - they are all a bunch of crooks and liars.
M3M3M3
@Tommy Jones
This means the FISA warrant that authorised the surveillance.
There was no disclosure. Full disclosure of all relevant evidence, including evidence that weakens the FBI's case, is required in the FISA court or in any ex parte hearing. The warrant would likely never have been issued if this had been disclosed this to the court, which is precisely why they decided no to. This is the scandal. We have an investigative agency lying to the courts and accountable to no one.
I really advise you to dump whatever news source you are relying on to get your information. You might be trapped in biased media bubble.
Texas A&M Aggie
The crooked Obama-era FBI/DOJ/DNC just proved what a great and honorable man our President is. They spied on him for months and could find nothing to accuse him of.
Time to turn the tables and put these organizations on trial in the court of public opinion and see how they hold up under such intense scrutiny. . . .
SuperLib
We have a sliver of incomplete information. I said this won't change much, and it won't. Trump fans will still think the known scammer and proven liar is the honest one here, and dozens of people with no track records of dishonesty are guilty of conspiring against him, all Republicans, and even some being people he personally picked.
Trump will use this as an excuse not to meet with Mueller, but we said he wouldn't do that anyway, so again, no change.
Rosenstein will probably be branded as yet another corrupt Republican trying to bring down a Republican President. Trump will try to get a fresh start with yet another new guy who will either help Trump or will suddenly turn into...wait for it....yet another corrupt Republican out to get him.
The show continues, and so does the investigation.
M3M3M3
@Tommy Jones
You're joking right? Read paragraph 1. a). of the memo. Literally the first thing in the memo.
Tommy Jones
As I stated earlier, I did not read anything about the FBI presenting false evidence. How exactly did the FBI knowingly deceive the FISA court?
M3M3M3
@Tommy Jones, @SuperLib, @CrazyJoe
Do you think the FBI knowingly deceiving the FISA court to obtain a warrant they would never have been granted if they disclosed the truth is serious or not? To be honest, you guys seem just as deluded as the people who think Trump can do no wrong.
Tommy Jones
I read the memo but missed the part about the FBI presenting false evidence to obtain a warrant.
M3M3M3
The memo is actually quite explosive. The FBI was putting forward evidence before the FISA court which they new to be false. They knowingly breached there duty of full disclosure on a massive scale. The credibility of the entire ex parte process in FISA is built on full disclosure since the other party is not there to argue why the warrant should not be issued. The FBI essentially has no effective oversight by any branch of government if they are prepared to lie to the courts.
I think people who are saying the memo is a 'nothing burger' are completely missing its significance. No, it doesn't absolve Trump of anything, nor does it derail the Russia investigation, nor is anyone claiming that it does. The memo is a massive and separate scandal in its own right, which is only tangentially connected to Trump. Which warrants in addition to Carter Page were obtained by knowingly presenting false evidence?
CrazyJoe
This is a sad day indeed. Not only because Trump attacks the institutions that keep us safe, but because Republicans in Congress support his efforts, solely for political gain. Nothing good will come of releasing the memo.
I believe that Trump is the first president in history to put his needs above the needs of the country and the amazing individuals in the intelligence community who are sworn to protect the country.
SuperLib
Should be a good read on right wing sites. Its always fun to see what they are feeding their base.
Back in the real world, word is that Mueller is set to interview Don Jr and Hope Hicks. Should be fun when he asks them why they lied about meeting with Russians. And of course Jr will have to explain why he was coordinating the release of stolen emails provided by Russia via Wikileaks.
Tommy Jones
Now that the Republicans/conservatives and their Russian bots/hacker friends have finished with #releasethememo, what is their next message? Guess we have to wait for the Kremlin to put it out so the bots/trolls can push it and the republicans/conservatives can pick it up.
Exciting times now that the memo has been released.
Strangerland
Well if the Russians help him in the next few elections again, it definitely increases his odds.
Strangerland
Nah, Trump and his band of cowboys has. The people still have full confidence in the FBI and Mueller.
You can't take the Trumpians as real humans.
Tommy Jones
Agreed. Starting with the one claiming the FBI is corrupt at any level.
Tommy Jones
One anonymous internet poster does not represent "the public" of the United States.
*While the memo focuses on an October 2016 court application for electronic surveillance of Page, it omits the fact that Page appeared on the FBI’s radar screen much earlier, when he met in 2013 with Russians in New York who were officers of the Kremlin’s foreign intelligence service. There was no evidence that Page knew the people were Russian intelligence officers but the contacts raised FBI suspicions.*
Being targeted by Russia intelligence services at any time was definitely an essential part of the application and remewals.
Fizzzzzzz . . . Plop . . . A flop. A super-sized nothing burger meal with a large side of duds, and a nie cold, large nada to wash it all down.
Madverts
Heh, anyone who thinks Trump isn't hiding something shocking is insane. This isn't going to end well.
Oh, and Devin Nunes is the American version of Mr Bean....