Ukraine says Moscow is forcibly taking civilians to Russia

The Russian war effort is going badly and now being forced out of lands it had taken. But with the military land battle going badly, they can still rely on heavy artillery to pulverise towns and cities. Even so, an outright victory in this war looks impossible.

Putin has been weakened, perhaps irrevocably, tarnishing his reputation for ever and the image of Russia for a generation.

And all because he wanted to be a big man on the world stage. He's not, he's a silly little man with a very big gun to be okay with.

Western Ukraine, where the shivering teenage girl holding the white rabbits lives, is not an area of focus for Russian forces.

Is Dnipro in Western Ukraine?

Bronco - perhaps you misread, but the girl came from Dnipro, which is in eastern Ukraine.

https://liveuamap.com/

Western Ukraine, where the shivering teenage girl holding the white rabbits lives, is not an area of focus for Russian forces.

And why do you think the teenage girl was shivering?

Your initial assessment is wrong. That’s where she was when she was standing in the doorway of the train. Not where she lives.

She had been traveling alone, leaving other family members behind in Dnipro.

Just more ugly evidence to keep track of for Putin’s war crimes trial when it begins in The Hague.

Invading armies always commit atrocities and the Russians are certainly no exception to this fact.

So how were these people forcibly “taken” to Russia at a rate of around 13.000 per day for every single day this has been going on?

whars the logistics of that?

Ukraine says Moscow is forcibly taking civilians to Russia

The propaganda is getting thick.

Since 2014 those extreme right-wing forces have been operating in the Donbas region of Ukraine where they killed 15,000 long before the Russian troops crossed into Ukraine a month ago.

And why do you think the teenage girl was shivering?

Actually the rabbit was shivering- not the girl.

*“a white pet rabbit shivering in her arms”*

most of theses articles are written in an overly dramatic and somewhat unclear manner to generate maximum emotional response.

people went to Russia becomes taken to Russia. to elicit an imagery where you can see them loaded into cars and driven away, against their will.

Western Ukraine, where the shivering teenage girl holding the white rabbits lives,

Bronco, "lives" is inaccurate here. She was photographed at the train station in Lviv, but she came from Dnipro. Your statement would be more accurate if you had said "was photographed" instead of "lives".

Lviv is a beautiful city in Western Ukraine populated primarily by ethnic Ukrainians and has no Russian troops anywhere near it.

but that hasn’t stopped Russian missiles targeting the city.

Which is why almost all of Russia's military efforts are concentrated in that area.

Because Putin wants the coast, as far as Odessa.

I'm fact he wanted the whole country, but now it is turning into a face saving operation.

And now that Ukraine has shown that they can destroy the Russian ships in harbour, even capturing harbours is pointless.

Putin has failed and robbed 10,000+ families of their sons to feed his arrogance.

Haha the sheer intellectual dishonesty of the Putin shills here.

I give it six days before they’re saying, “no, Ukrainian children LIKE being sent to concentration camps”.

The abduction of civilians is just adding to the slime trail of war crimes leading directly to Putin and his Kremlin gang. Deprived of the quick Blitzkrieg victory Putin imagined, Russian troops have been forced to dig in and burrow like ticks under the skin of Ukrainian territory, but they will soon be removed since the Russian cannon fodder fighting for Putin are no match for Ukrainians united in their determination to save their homeland and send Putin's minions packing back over the border.

It's a losing battle here

Yeah it’s not like going to Russia first then to another country is one of the primary escape routes out of Ukraine.

notice no one will even respond to how 400,000 people were “taken” against their will in less than a month. Super huge bus?

all the COVID experts are now Ukraine experts and won’t consider they don’t know enough to be speaking. just repeating the media narratives, thinking it’s their own analytical thought when it’s just a manipulative emotional response.

@BroncoToday  08:47 am JST

Actually the article doesn’t say she “has relatives in Dinpro”, it says she “leaving other family members” in Dinpro and was “traveling alone”.

It’s obvious where she came from and where she’s going, and that doesn’t fit your narrative so you changed it to sound like what you want. Like you said “It's all about perception management” and it seems your the one trying to twist things to your liking here.

The perception the author hopes to implant in your head

Oh, you mean the same way you & Putin are giving the perception that this Russian invasion is a mission to help free Ukraine from the tyranny of nazi rule

She has "other familiy members" in Dnipro.

That could mean distant cousins and aunts.

Lol. I have distant family in the UK and Australia. I’m not leaving them behind when I travel from my home country to Japan or vice versa.

*The perception the author hopes to implant in your head: **A 13 year-old girl is near freezing to death standing in the rubble clinging to a little white rabbit in a desperate plea for help from American heroes.*

*The most likely reality: **A 19 year-old girl with a cigarette in her mouth holding a Starbucks Latte in one hand and an iPhone 13 with a character rabbit hanging off of it another just came back from a shopping trip to Zara. An AP reporter finds her and asks "Do you have to have any distant relatives in East Ukraine? Even a 3rd cousin of something". She answers yeah.*

We absolutely understand what propaganda is. Some people think it’s all lies. That’s false. It’s a framing of the truth in a way that promotes one side over another. That’s why the emotive imagery is used. Sometimes lies get in there and it becomes difficult to tell to what extent something is true or not. However, you have no idea what is most likely in this instance.

The perception the author hopes to implant in your head: A 13 year-old girl is near freezing to death standing in the rubble clinging to a little white rabbit in a desperate plea for help from American heroes.

The most likely reality: A 19 year-old girl with a cigarette in her mouth holding a Starbucks Latte in one hand and an iPhone 13 with a character rabbit hanging off of it another just came back from a shopping trip to Zara. An AP reporter finds her and asks "Do you have to have any distant relatives in East Ukraine? Even a 3rd cousin of something". She answers yeah.

The AP reporter then goes back to his hotel and weaves the emotive sentence that you read and made you angry at those damn Russians.

That is how propaganda works.

Me: What if I invented something in my brain with no evidence that contradicts what someone who is actually in Ukraine reported? Yeah, I'm probably right.

notice no one will even respond to how 400,000 people were “taken” against their will in less than a month. Super huge bus?

You're never going to believe this, but there is in fact more than one bus in Ukraine.

I know that was difficult to take, but I'm going to hit you with another hard truth. People can travel without buses.

I know this will be a difficult pair of revelations. Please take all the time and space you need to recover.

Ideally, take a lot.

still didnt answer my question of how an average of 13,000 people per day can be forcibly taken to Russia.

People can travel without buses.

but they were forcibly taken (by who?), they didnt "travel".

Were 13,000 people a day walked 50km at gunpoint? was a train hijacked? multiple plane? stuffed into hundreds of armored personnel carriers?

again these people supposedly dont want to go, no one resisted or tried to escape? how many soldiers would it take to control such a large group every day?

You do realize this is nonsensical that 400,000 people were taken in less than 30 days, right?

You do realize this is nonsensical that 400,000 people were taken in less than 30 days, right?

I guess you'll have to ask your Kremlin buddies? Remember that this is a Kremlin claim.

Russian Col. Gen. Mikhail Mizintsev said the roughly 400,000 people evacuated to Russia since the start of the military action 

Come. On.

I know you despise democracy, freedom, and anything resembling "Western" culture, but you're taking the word of an invading general and saying that it's the victims who are exaggerating for political purposes.

Get a grip.

You do realize this is nonsensical that 400,000 people were taken in less than 30 days, right?

All I’m wondering about is whether it was abducted or evacuated. Not the how. Clearly 400,000 people being moved either by abduction or evacuation is a big logistical task but both sides are saying 400,000 people were moved.

I also don't see how your proposition of, "I don't know how people can be relocated. That means it didn't happen" is something you think valid.

I don't really understand how the Sun can fission billions of tons of hydrogen per second into light and heat. But here we are.

Remember that this is a Kremlin claim.

Ummm….article title much?

“Ukraine says Moscow is forcibly taking civilians to Russia”

a big logistical task but both sides are saying 400,000 people were moved.

yes unless theses people just willingly moved around by themselves. Which sounds much much more likely.

but “forcibly taken” sounds much better for the narrative right?

don’t worry it’s already been decided that one side can lie and misrepresent anything they need to because they were invaded. So there is no such thing as Ukraine lies or propaganda, it’s allowed.

Local municipalities started bussing residents out before the hostilities started with the Russian invasion, when force's were still holding their "exercises" in their own territory. Prior to this local populations had been subjected to a concerted disinformation campaign wherein they were told that the Ukrainian population were predominantly led by Nazi's that wanted to exterminate them and take their homes - but all was well as sanctuary was available in Russia for them. Any way you look at it, that is an abduction of the population under false pretenses and definitely of the children who have no voice of their own. It's also a grab at the demographics for future electoral significance, as is driving out a quarter of the population in the north and west of the country, too. There's probably countless young women feeling evermore apprehensive the further afield they're forced to travel away from home for safety - and many won't even have family meeting them where they're going to. But alas this one has a nice pot of rabbit stew in hand and a mother to cook it for her...

Ummm….article title much?

“Ukraine says Moscow is forcibly taking civilians to Russia”

Yes. Ukraine is claiming they are being taken forcibly.

The article notes a Russian general giving numbers.

You are simultaneously saying, "it wasn't forcible, Ukraine is lying", and "it can't be 400,000, Russia is lying".

Please. PLEASE. Develop a consistent political viewpoint. You supported Russia when you said they would never invade. Not you support the invasion, along with the murder and deportation of civilians.

it can't be 400,000, Russia is lying".

“Forcibly taken” as the article claims- no it cannot be 400,000.

by themselves, willingly, certainly it can.

which is what I actually clearly said.

Dialogue is possible and usually worth the effort, except when one of the parties does not have a lengthy history of distorting truths and spreading disinformatio

So it’s my fault that you have no actual believable answer. Classic.

Ah_soToday  07:27 am JST

The Russian war effort is going badly and now being forced out of lands it had taken. But with the military land battle going badly, they can still rely on heavy artillery to pulverise towns and cities. Even so, an outright victory in this war looks impossible.

Putin has been weakened, perhaps irrevocably, tarnishing his reputation for ever and the image of Russia for a generation.

And all because he wanted to be a big man on the world stage. He's not, he's a silly little man with a very big gun to be okay with.

trump kidnapped those migrant children to use as pawns for his egotistical unnecessary wall that thankfully was never built. And his master Putin is now forcibly taking innocent people to Russia, doing the same crime. He's desperate now. He installed a puppet in Kazakhstan a few weeks ago, easily. He thought he could conquer Ukraine easily, but resistance is fierce, and he gets world condemnation (with a few notable exceptions, ahem).

Even so, an outright victory in this war looks impossible.

The number of Russian soldiers dead is in the thousands. This could mean another Chechnya or even Afghanistan for Putin. And over a hundred years ago, czarist Russia suffered tremendously from WW1 and along came an exile who promised 'Peace and bread'. Putin needs to take note from this.

“Forcibly taken” as the article claims- no it cannot be 400,000.

Why?

We know that millions of Ukrainians have fled the country voluntarily. Why is 400,000 impossible?

What is your evidence that this cannot happen?

"I just don't think it can" is not evidence, by the way.

Neither is "RT said it didn't happen".

What is your evidence that this cannot happen?

average of 13,000 every day of this, from the very first day, without fail.

You tell me how thats possible. how did they round up all these people, detain them and then forcibly take them all the way to Russia?

I dont have to prove it cant happen, you have to prove it can and more importantly, did.

prove your claim.

average of 13,000 every day of this, from the very first day, without fail.

You're never going to believe this, but sometimes more people can be moved on some days than others.

You tell me how thats possible. how did they round up all these people, detain them and then forcibly take them all the way to Russia?

To speculate, you could say that you're offering an evacuation corridor, and when people go through it, you could take them to someone in Russia.

I dont have to prove it cant happen, you have to prove it can and more importantly, did.

Weird how you never have to prove anything.

prove your claim.

It's not my claim. The Ukrainian government might be wrong. But you are, as ever, utterly deferential to Russia.

First, they would never invade.

Then, it was Joe Biden's fault that they did, somehow.

Now, despite the fact that we know the Russia has no compunction attacking civilian shelters and children's hospitals, you're saying, "well, they would never force Ukrainians into Russia".

Why?

Why are you so anti-Western? What is it about Western values you despise so much? Is it democracy? Freedom? Please just be honest.