Ukrainian military vows to hold Bakhmut as Russians close in

Time for a ceasefire and discuss the matter like adults, rather than thugs. Let’s stop the bloodbath!

It is important, Russian can use Bakhmut as a firing location for their artillery on Kramatorsk,it only 33 miles and the middle highway distance is located at 48.77376,37.78329

Ukrainain are using these citizen as human shield in Bakhmut,both sides are incompetent

Yrral @ 5.55am

Thank you for that enlightening piece of co-ordinate information.

Somebody better get the Russians some ammo or they might not de-salianate the salt mine they’ve been on the verge of capturing daily for the last 2-3 months…

Time for a ceasefire and discuss the matter like adults, rather than thugs. Let’s stop the bloodbath!

The person behind the invasion of a sovereign nation, and the deaths of countless civilians - the shaky midget - could stop the bloodbath in one phone call.

But he seems intent on fascist Russia's land grab.

Credible reports from the front suggest the Ukrainians are attacking the flanks to make their withdraw less costly.

Hanging on to the last minute has cost them dearly.

Credible reports from the front suggest…..

Same reports you gave that said that the Ukrainian army was suffering losses at a 7:1 ratio when the opposite is the actual truth?

Ukranians won't last long, better surrender and save your lives..

Ukranians won't last long, better surrender and save your lives..

Don't you get tired of saying that for a year and being wrong every single day?

"Russians better quit and go home and save THEIR lives" is more like it.

@ffsteve Let’s stop the bloodbath!

Simple solution, Putin and Prigozhin return their murdering thugs back across the border that they illegally crossed into actual Russian territory, not the territory the Kremlin imagines is theirs. The 'bloodbath' would probably quickly end were they to do that; Russia started it, Russia can end it. Unless Putin and the Kremlin want to continue ridding their nation of ex-cons and other miscreants, currently being killed by the dozens of thousands.

"Ukrainian forces are unlikely to withdraw from Bakhmut all at once and may pursue a gradual fighting withdrawal to exhaust Russian forces through continued urban warfare,” the ISW said in an assessment published late Sunday.

So they are pursuing a gradual withdraw. In the end, it’s a withdrawal.

The "last minute" has lasted about 6 months by now. It's a long minute!

Credible reports from the front suggest the Ukrainians are attacking the flanks to make their withdraw less costly.

Hanging on to the last minute has cost them dearly.

Yrral

Ukrainain are using these citizen as human shield in Bakhmut,both sides are incompetent

Nope. Citizens were advised to leave. They have stayed anyway.

Nemo

Credible reports from the front suggest…..

Same reports you gave that said that the Ukrainian army was suffering losses at a 7:1 ratio when the opposite is the actual truth?

Yes indeed. The Ukrainians have made Russia pay dearly (7:1 ratio) for their invasion of Bakhmut.

Zelensky has been resupplying the people of Bakhmut, instead of making them leave,once the Ukrainian soldiers leave Russian can attack Kramatorsk and Ukrainain will be shelling their own citizen

"Ukrainian forces are unlikely to withdraw from Bakhmut all at once and may pursue a gradual fighting withdrawal to exhaust Russian forces through continued urban warfare,” the ISW said in an assessment published late Sunday.

So they are pursuing a gradual withdraw. In the end, it’s a withdrawal.

At the end of which, they withdrawl their lines of C3 intact, on the highground with about 50k dead Russians in front of them and several hundred destroyed vehicles to boot.

So, not quite the own you thought it was, is it?

Yrral

It is important, Russian can use Bakhmut as a firing location for their artillery on Kramatorsk,it only 33 miles and the middle highway distance is located at 48.77376,37.78329

They don't need Bakhmut for that. Krasna Hora, which they occupy, would allow them to reach both Kramatorsk and Sloviansk.

And both of these cities were far closer when they held Lyman. Maybe they should have held onto that.

Ukraine is hurting, Bleeding, and Dying for the rest of Europe.

Credible reports from the front suggest

No one with a history of providing misinformation and disinformation can say something is 'credible' and expect anyone to take them seriously.

@tokyoliving? Ukranians won't last long

Once more cheering on Russia's attempts to eliminate Ukrainian people, Russia's latest genocidal efforts.

U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin endorsed that view Monday, saying during a visit to Jordan that Bakhmut has “more of a symbolic value than … strategic and operational value.”

exactly what I said s few days ago he would say. It’s like a script.

Blacklabel

U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin endorsed that view Monday, saying during a visit to Jordan that Bakhmut has “more of a symbolic value than … strategic and operational value.”

exactly what I said s few days ago he would say. It’s like a script.

I've been saying that regularly as well. Some people like to paint Bakhmut as a strategic city, but it isn't. Ukraine have used to to extract a high cost of Russian lives.

exactly what I said s few days ago he would say. It’s like a script.

Gosh. You said something a few days ago that peope have been saying for months. Quite an oracle aren't we?

U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin endorsed that view Monday, saying during a visit to Jordan that Bakhmut has “more of a symbolic value than … strategic and operational value.”

exactly what I said s few days ago he would say. It’s like a script.

Congratulations!

You have figured out what has been said for months.

Well Done!

Blacklabel,I guess Zelensky are using Ukrainain for cannon fodder ,some of their soldiers are scrubs,with two weeks training Google Kiev Independent Our Troops Are Not Being Protected

Indeed. Just “symbolic” when you lose more cities and land.

no wonder Ukraine is losing to a bunch of prisoners wearing no socks and armed with just shovels.

Blacklabel

Indeed. Just “symbolic” when you lose more cities and land.

No, as the US Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin said, it's just symbolic. But the symbolism is huge for the Wagner group, because they have said that they would take it and when they do, they can brag about it. The fact that it has take 9 months so far will be forgotten. As will the price paid in Russian lives.

another flip flop then-

“President Volodymyr Zelensky said Monday he ordered the reinforcement of positions inside the city of Bakhmut, explaining that there was no part of Ukraine that could be abandoned.”

then when it’s abandoned? “Strategic withdrawal”.

Stay strong, defenders of Ukraine! Bakhmut holds on for another day.

Unless there's some kind of strategic advantage for staying, it doesn't seem wise to throw away valuable infantry in such a manner. Then again, we're far away from what's happening there, so maybe there is a logical plan to defending Bakhmut. However, if it's just a Battle of the Alamo type situation Ukraine is going for, then it's foolish and a gift to the Russians. Don't give them any gifts!

A strategic withdrawal involving backing up to fortified positions of Ukraine's choosing would seem to make the most sense. And keep what soldiers you've got to fight another day.

Axel, Ukrainain are complaining,they been forsaken by Zelensky,they need Bakhmut, because Russian can use it to pacify another Ukraine city up North from Bakhmut

Indeed. Just “symbolic” when you lose more cities and land. 

And thus proving it’s as ignorant of strategy as it is of politics, elections and the law.

And thus proving it’s as ignorant of strategy as it is of politics, elections and the law.

So please explain to us how losing more land and more cities to an invader is a “good” thing and an indicator of “winning”? Thanks in advance.

Blacklabel

And thus proving it’s as ignorant of strategy as it is of politics, elections and the law.

So please explain to us how losing more land and more cities to an invader is a “good” thing and an indicator of “winning”? Thanks in advance.

If you make them pay 7:1 in Russian lives.

If you make them pay 7:1 in Russian lives.

Which is propaganda, you know this don’t you?

A pro Ukrainain website say Wagner,has hosted the flag at the T34 Monument Bakhmut Google Militaryland.net

So please explain to us how losing more land and more cities to an invader is a “good” thing and an indicator of “winning”? Thanks in advance.

See, there is this thing called "strategy". Sun Tzu wrote a book on it called "The Art of War" several thousand years ago. It talked about dispersing when the enemy is strong and concentrating when the enemy is weak.

It's not about winning and losing territory per say. It's about being closer rather than farther to your ultimate goal.

By bleeding the Russians white for litterally months on end, rendering 2 major front line units combat ineffective, killing upwards of 50 thousand of the enemy and destroying hundreds of armored vehicles of all types which cannot be replaced and then escaping to pre-positioned fortifications with its command, control and communications in tact, in exchange for nothing but a name, the Ukrainians are winning.

Any educated, knowledgable person is capable of knowing this, which is why former US Army General and current Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin (in addition to the UK MOD and every military pundit on every channel) gets it and you do not.

Nemo ,the Russian are bleeding their economy dry,with no end in sight,Sun Tzu is not giving them aid,in summary I hope the US realize,they are dealing with a government of crooks and Russian agents

Reading Prigozin's panicked pleas for help I'm starting to understand the Ukrainian motive in holding onto Bakhmut better.

If the Ukrainians abandon Bakhmut its not the end of the world for them provided they can withdraw most of their forces. They can paint it as simply withdrawing to better positions, kind of the same way the Russians framed their withdrawal from Kherson.

But if the Russians lose this battle, its really going to look bad for them. More than a year into the war, and after a mass mobilization they have thrown the weight of their forces into this much anticipated offensive. If it ends with them not even being able to capture a minor town that is only a few miles away from where they were when they started the whole war, that is going to put them in a bad place.

Blacklabel

If you make them pay 7:1 in Russian lives.

Which is propaganda, you know this don’t you?

Probably the 7:1 ratio, sure. But Russia is paying way more than Ukraine in casualties, hence a win for Ukraine.

Wagner's raising their flag at 48.59384,38.01575

People do not want to hear the damn truth,the hard fact Ukraine will not drive Russian from their land,they can save what little they have left, Russian are not gonna pay one ruble to Ukraine and European are not that stupid to hand it over

Basis of any war/conflict is two-way fault and blame. It's never some simple narrative.

Interesting how little /NO coverage in 'our' media about the treatment of Russian speaking Ukrainian citizens.

Any such talk's "Pro" Putin! The tens of millions inside Russia, many related to these Ukrainians, all their feelings, experiences and ideas are somehow invalid?

That's not a good basis for 'constructive communications and resolution" folks!

Please take read below, media in MANY countries like China, India, Indonesia etc. agree with idea's expressed above and below, BOTH sides have fault and blame etc.

Need to all get out of our respective Echo Chambers/Silos ASAP in order to de-escalate!

Volodymyr Zelenskyy has unplugged three television networks he accuses of spreading Kremlin-funded ‘propaganda’, a development the EU has reprimanded.

Millions in Ukraine’s east and south are Russian speakers – without necessarily being pro-Kremlin – and their votes propelled Zelenskyy to the country's presidency against all political odds

By Mansur Mirovalev, Al Jazeera, Published 5 Feb 2021

6 month from now, Ukrainain will be fleeing for Europe in the million,where they get free social services and a free education for their children

Nearly everything you are reading's propaganda, turns out most objective media's truly independent like Al Jazeera etc. Always true, but especially in matters of war

Media's simply an 'arm' of the combatants

I'd take this Russian lack of 'ammo' as ploy/deception for example, the fog of war, remember? But then again exactly how many of you know of war? Probably none

Yrral - you said Ukraine would fall in 6 months in January, which would mean July, not 6 months from today (September). Did you want to stick with your original prediction (July), or did you want to amend it to September?

Clay

Basis of any war/conflict is two-way fault and blame. It's never some simple narrative.

So Poland was to blame when the Nazi's attacked it in WW2?

Any such talk's "Pro" Putin! The tens of millions inside Russia, many related to these Ukrainians, all their feelings, experiences and ideas are somehow invalid?

Yes. Invalid. Because they don't know the truth. Putin controls the media, all flow of information and propaganda.

Basis of any war/conflict is two-way fault and blame. It's never some simple narrative.

No it’s not and not this time.

This is an invasion based on a lie.

There was no threat to Russia.

There was no rush to join NATO.

There was no genocide of ethnic Russians.

It was all a lie.

There is no “Greater Russia.”

Ukraine does exist independent of Russia.

There was no pan-Slavic feeling.

It was ALL. A. LIE.

As such your “supposition” (such as it is) is not only incorrect in this case, it’s delusional.

When we de-humanize others, that's also a sure path towards escalation. People in Russia are smart and love their families like everyone else, including relatives living in Ukraine.

They are not 'controlled' like puppets, so sorry about that and certainly MOST are victims of war no matter their geography. Take for example food and energy inflation, knows no boundary!

This is as I wrote yesterday, just another chapter in the great geopolitical game, Ukraine's simply puppet/pawn!

Or as the Chinese President says "If you pull a tiger's tail, what exactly do you expect?!"

Eastman

how about to admit that UA forces have no chance to win over Russia in any case?

just face reality and start to write a truth here.

as respected independent journos suppose to do?

Nobody is willing to predict this war, because it is seriously difficult to do. There are so many ways it could go.

Experts got a burned when they said it would be over in 3 days.

U,July 4, 2023 will be the definitely date of no return for Ukrainain

When we de-humanize others, that's also a sure path towards escalation. 

The Russians dehumanized themselves.

Or are you suggesting that the UA just roll over for the sake of humanity?

Anytime the Russians want to humanize themselves, they can stop being where they aren’t supposed to be doing what they aren’t supposed to be doing and just go home.

Weren’t you the one bragging about asymmetric warfare and time favoring Putin yesterday?

What happened to reduce your smugness?

That's right, war's being dictated by Putin, he's in no rush clearly, one must remember with everyday Ukraine lost economic output's conservatively $1 billion and future economic output potential being destroyed as people flee abroad etc.

No need for Putin to rush, he's very clever folks, this is his backyard, been planning this for decades, he understands well emotions of his true adversaries, you'd be insane to bet on Ukraine under any circumstance and why this needs resolution ASAP as we all whistle past the graveyard towards WWIII/Armagedón!

Ukrainain are not the only one catching hell in the world as you know

Time for a ceasefire and discuss the matter like adults, rather than thugs. Let’s stop the bloodbath!

The last thing that hungry war dogs want is a ceasefire....both sides are has bad as each other. Pathetic !...The human species has not evolved in thousands of years. They still believe that killing their own species is the way to solve problems. Doh !!

They still believe that killing their own species is the way to solve problems. Doh !!

Yes, if you come to my land uninvited, that is what is going to happen to you. Would you just allow invaders to take whatever they want? If that's the game you would like to see, just remember that others can play that game too. Better to just not invade other countries.

The only winners are the weapons companies and the paid influencers...

Putin and other leading Kremlin figures may not "live long enough to see any successes" for Moscow in Ukraine, according to a Russian state television commentator.

Yrral - Civilian migrants are not the same as an invading army with artillery, air support, and cruise missiles.

japancat

Time for a ceasefire and discuss the matter like adults, rather than thugs. Let’s stop the bloodbath!

The last thing that hungry war dogs want is a ceasefire....both sides are has bad as each other.

Wrong. We want a ceasefire. Immediately.

And Russian forces to leave Ukraine.

No need for Putin to rush, he's very clever folks, this is his backyard, been planning this for decades, 

Yeah, what a genius. Decades of planning to get bogged down his own backyard for years at a cost of hundreds of thousands of his own people.

No need for Putin to rush, he's very clever folks, this is his backyard, been planning this for decades, 

Yeah, this rocket scientist has:

re-invigorated and re-united NATO.

turned 2 non-alligned states into NATO members on it's N. border.

set his country on the path to economic desolation (The Chinese and Indian oil purchases are never going to bail him out.)

alienated his largest market

lost 1 million of his best and brightest who have up and quit the country.

FOREVER and for alltime lost the support of Ukraine. Fellow slavs or not, there is nobody alive in Ukraine who is going to forget or forgive this.

Yes, clever boy indeed!!!!

It is incredibly sad that so much money and precious Lifes of thousands of young soldiers and civilians are being daily sacrificed because of insane decisions of an inhuman leader. With so many needs around the world so much money is spend promoting death and suffering. Ironically, Artificial Intelligence is booming now, hope that it helps to build conscience about the stupidity that is trying to resolve issues by the use of deadly weapons instead of dialogue among human beings.

2020hindsight..

Wrong. We want a ceasefire. Immediately.

And Russian forces to leave Ukraine

Good....As long as ukraine doesnt join NATO...then its a done deal. Its the eastward push by NATO that caused russia to make its move in the first place.

@News artcle: Good on the Ukrainians for defending their soverign country against a foreign invader who is bent on distruction, lies, murder, and much more.

@A few of the posters on here: I've been watching closely for over a year now, and it's always disgusted me how openly supportive you are of Russia, which has been raping, murdering countless civilians in this invasion war. It really shows what type of character you are if you can support this, and proudly support Russian troops/Putin/Leadership.

Not surprising many of you live in Western/Progressive countries that are the opposite of "mighty Russia" you support. If your way of life, being homophobic, killing minorities, and general hateful additudes allign with you, please do yourself a favor and leave.

If you're really so certain of success and believe Russia to be so powerful, how about signing up and joining in the fight? You seem to love the crimes they are commiting so much.

Makoto Shimizu 

It is incredibly sad that so much money and precious Lifes of thousands of young soldiers and civilians are being daily sacrificed because of insane decisions of an inhuman leader. With so many needs around the world so much money is spend promoting death and suffering. Ironically, Artificial Intelligence is booming now, hope that it helps to build conscience about the stupidity that is trying to resolve issues by the use of deadly weapons instead of dialogue among human beings.

Well said.

japancat

2020hindsight..

Wrong. We want a ceasefire. Immediately.

And Russian forces to leave Ukraine

Good....As long as ukraine doesnt join NATO...then its a done deal. Its the eastward push by NATO that caused russia to make its move in the first place.

Firstly, NATO didn't push eastward. And secondly, Russia didn't invade because of NATO. They invaded because Putin is an imperialist.

Well, even if Bakhmut will be illegally occupied by Russian invaders ........

.......... what did they really achieve?

Thousands of Russian aggressors sent thru the meat grinder.

Heavy losses in military hardware.

All this for a small piece of land which will soon be returned to Ukraine!

Besides, did anyone look at a topographical map of the area?

Russians won't be able to proceed easily!

Proceeding over open area and fired at from elevations - definitely not a good sign!

Anyways - Ukraine prevails!

Battle of the replacements. Yellow tape marked regular well-trained Ukrainian forces are long gone and Zelensky has put green tape forced draftees to defend Bakhmut against irregular Russian contractors recruited from prisons while well trained professional Russian soldiers are held back.

Mr Zelensky and Mr Putin are both bloodthirsty tyrants with connections to ghastly underworld figures who help them remain in power. Mr Putin is of course an incredibly beastly fellow who appears to becoming more deluded as time goes on. Mr Zelensky is also behind many dreadful crimes with his right wing extremist and underworld cohorts.

Both are dictator types running their nations like a mob leader, creaming money off, removing those against them and caring nothing for their people.

Ukrainian military leaders expressed determination Monday to hold onto Bakhmut as Russian forces encroached on the devastated eastern city they have sought to capture for six months at the cost of thousands of lives.

Yes, correct.

But not six months (the assault has began recently) and cost of thousands of lives - mainly of Ukrainian soldiers.

The main idea - huge losses of best Ukrainian troops.

Well, even if Bakhmut will be illegally occupied by Russian invaders ........

.......... what did they really achieve?

Thousands of Russian aggressors sent thru the meat grinder.

Heavy losses in military hardware.

My dear friend - by the way I'm from Russia

Russia have a not so big losses, so Russia can afford such conflict for a very long period of time.

not Ukraine.

falseflagsteve

Mr Zelensky is also behind many dreadful crimes with his right wing extremist and underworld cohorts.

Evidence please.

Olegek

But not six months (the assault has began recently) and cost of thousands of lives - mainly of Ukrainian soldiers.

Actually, it's closer to 9 months.

The main idea - huge losses of best Ukrainian troops.

Russian troops loss are way worse than Ukrainian in this battle.

so Russia can afford such conflict for a very long period of time.

How long?

Olegek

My dear friend - by the way I'm from Russia

Russia have a not so big losses, so Russia can afford such conflict for a very long period of time.

That would explain it. How can you expect to have access to real information in Russia.

Here are a few more Russians who would be alive had they just stayed home.

https://twitter.com/ePowerLife2/status/1631586227043573760

You guys should just go home. It's not going to get any better or any easier for you.

That would explain it. How can you expect to have access to real information in Russia.

lol

The main difference between us - I can have info from *both sides***.**

Buy the way - Ukrainian trrops mainly speak Russian and not Ukrainian.

(about access to "real info")

ClippetyClop

so Russia can afford such conflict for a very long period of time.

How long?

In today's way - a year and a half or two years without big troubles.

Odd how random Twitter profiles and Telegram is “sometimes” reliable but only when the correct story or message is being presented.

Russia definitely on the verge of defeat.

and now UA have something to celebrate their imminent victory.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11826687/Wagner-mercenary-chief-sends-truckload-seized-champagne-Ukrainian-women-mocking-gift.html

Odd how random Twitter profiles and Telegram is “sometimes” reliable but only when the correct story or message is being presented.

That’s why I don’t use them or follow links to any of it. But yeah, it is odd, and that goes for both sides.

In today's way - a year and a half or two years without big troubles.

Good to know that. Ukraine just has to do this for a couple of years and then 'big troubles' for Russia.

Olegek - Do you think Ukraine will surrender to Russia? If so, by when?

Good to know that. Ukraine just has to do this for a couple of years

Today Ukraine has no economy at all.

Energy system destroyed.

But all this is not so important, the main problem: huge losses of personnel

Today in Ukraine fought lot of Polish "mercenary"

Poland lost some thousands of soldiers in Ukraine.

By the way US/UK citizens also fought in Ukraine.

Olegek - Do you think Ukraine will surrender to Russia? If so, by when?

it's not possible. Mr Zelenskiy does not have such authority to surrender.

many Ukrainians are terrified of the war but they have no voice

It will be a long conflict.

Today Ukraine has no economy at all. Energy system destroyed. But all this is not so important, the main problem: huge losses of personnel

Thats okay, really. Just two years and they've won. Should be fine.

Yeah, what a genius. Decades of planning to get bogged down his own backyard for years at a cost of hundreds of thousands of his own people.

It's a 'relative' win for Russia, please remember this war while being fought in Ukraine has many other dimensions that are part of the 'calculus'. Inflation, energy, commodities, economic, demographics/population, political, technological, etc.

Furthermore, Russia's increasing its population as a result and emptying its prisons.

Bottom line is Putin's political adversaries are heading 'south' in general in terms of their approval ratings, inflation's becoming entrenched globally, that's the BIGGEST weapon of all in many respects in his favor, exactly how many voters like these high prices after all?

Olegek - do you understand the Ukrainian perspective on the invasion? Of course they want to fight to defend their homeland, just as you or I would if our countries were invaded. Can you empathize with the Ukrainian mind and understand why they are fighting?

Olegek - do you understand the Ukrainian perspective on the invasion? Of course they want to fight to defend their homeland,

Ukraine - it is some sort of Yugoslavia.

the country is not homogeneous, and the southeast is inhabited by Russians (the maine reason of conflict)

By the way, Hungarians live in western Ukraine, and so on...

RF and USA, and for that matter, most larger countries outside of Japan and the Koreas are not ethnically homogenous either. The east of Ukraine is inhabited by a majority (though not a totally) of Russian-Ukrainians. Not Russians. Otherwise, places like Brooklyn would also be considered 'Russia'. Do you see why this can't work?

Would you stand by and not protect your homeland if someone tried taking a bite of it, regardless of your ethnicity?

totality*

Ukraine - it is some sort of Yugoslavia.

the country is not homogeneous, and the southeast is inhabited by Russians (the maine reason of conflict)

By the way, Hungarians live in western Ukraine, and so on...

Finally, some real TRUTH!

Every terrorist defeated is one more nail in the coffin of their perverted empire. Slava Ukraini!

Time for a ceasefire and discuss the matter like adults, rather than thugs. Let’s stop the bloodbath!

How much land of your supposed country will you surrender and no equivocation!?!?