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Ukrainians plead for Mariupol rescue; Russian advance crawls

66 Comments
By MSTYSLAV CHERNOV and YESICA FISCH

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The real battle is going to be for Kyiv.

https://abrahamstein.substack.com/p/russia-or-united-states-will-control

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

The civilian should be given safe passage,and the soldiers, should surrender and wait release back into Ukraine custody and join the fight later on

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

A skeleton medical staff was treating at least 600 wounded people, said the women, who identified their husbands as members of the Azov Regiment of Ukraine’s National Guard. Some of the wounds were rotting with gangrene, they said.

The fact that these guys are literally licking their wounds in a basement surrounded by separatist forces means they have been defeated in battle by a flat tire army of 17 year-old demoralized conscripts.

Even with 33 billion dollars worth of US weapons, the idea of a rescue operation doesn't seem to be in the realm of possibility.

Inch by inch, the separatists are gaining ground.

-6 ( +10 / -16 )

An estimated 100,000 civilians remain in the city

Of course, a lot of those civilians are very relieved to be free from the Kiev regime's oppression, just as a lot of the civilians in Donetsk and Luhansk are happy someone has done something about the regime's artillery that used to be firing on their hometowns.

-1 ( +12 / -13 )

Richard Pierce,how can any sane person feel happy,living in Putin hell,you should try doing it

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

Repeated efforts at evacuation of civilians have been fired on by russias murderous so called military, thugs, rapists and torturers more like.

There is no justification for any of the actions of the russian state in invading a peaceful, democratic neighbour, nor for the state sanctioned acts of war crimes and crimes against humanity. Whether the russians can achieve their objectives is deeply questionable, they have already suffered and continue to suffer heavy casualties both in men and material. It matters not how many tanks etc and half trained conscripts you throw in to the meat grinder if they lack the morale to fight as the russians are demonstrating then you are on a hiding to nothing.

1 ( +11 / -10 )

Claiming an incorrect usage of the word “literally” as a “fact” that “means” something is funny.

Of course, a lot of those civilians are very relieved to be free from the Kiev regime's oppression, 

Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Yrral, the Kiev regime's kidnap squads are pretty overwhelmed rounding up enough Ukrainians who want their democracy back to exchange for those remnants of the once professional Ukrainian military who surrendered rather than hiding behind human shields. It's going to be a while before they get around to building up a surplus that will be traded for the ultraextremists fighters and families holed up in the industrial complex with a bunch of hostages.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

"Overall the Russian army has an estimated 900,000 active-duty personnel."

Plus two (2) Millions in reserve.

There's no way Ukraine will "win" this scrap militarily, Western "help" notwithstanding.

-5 ( +9 / -14 )

What is the endgame?

The Ukrainians surrender and the Russians gain control of Ukraine’s land?

Then the situation devolves into guérilla warfare?

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Peeping Tom,do you think it stupid,too not use your standing army and resort to mercenary,and see 10 of thousands regular soldiers slaughtered on the battlefield,a very flawed strategy

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Then the situation devolves into guérilla warfare?

Crimea left Ukraine and joined Russia in 2014.

There has been zero guerrilla warfare.

The same will be true of other majority Russian speaking areas.

Since Kiev has made the decision to ban political parties that represent Russian speakers the only solution that will ensure a lasting peace is a separation between the areas that are predominately Ukrainian and those that are predominately Russian.

That seems to be the endgame.

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

Peeping Tom - they either fight or they lose their country. I know which I would choose.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

Bronco,their was not a fight, Ukraine surrendered Crimea,they did have but 6000 people under arms

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

U,if you fight do you think you have a strategy too force Russian ,back inside their territory, Russian have bombed Ukraine back into the stone age Google The Institute For The Study of War

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Thanks Yrral, yes, I follow them. Today's update:

Further Russian reinforcements to the Izyum axis are unlikely to enable stalled Russian forces to achieve substantial advances. Elements of unspecified Eastern Military District units and several air-defense assets are reportedly deploying from Belgorod to the Izyum front to support likely degraded Russian units attempting to advance south of the city. These forces are unlikely to enable Russian forces to break the current deadlock, as Russian attacks remain confined to two major highways (toward Slovyansk and Barvinkove) and cannot leverage greater numbers. Several successful Ukrainian counterattacks out of Kharkiv city in the last 72 hours have additionally recaptured a ring of suburbs north and east of the city and may additionally force Russian forces to redeploy units intended for the Izyum axis to hold these positions. Russian forces appear increasingly unlikely to achieve any major advances in eastern Ukraine, and Ukrainian forces may be able to conduct wider counterattacks in the coming days.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

The ferocity of the fighting has stunned the world. In the U.S., Pentagon press secretary John Kirby grew emotional Friday as he discussed the invasion ordered by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Kirby is a human being, unlike Vladimir Putin.

Putin bombs and launches missiles on innocent women and children. He is a monster at Hitler / Stalin status. I don't blame Ukraine for taking the fight inside Russia and Putin has brought this on himself.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Freedom and Liberty are never a given, a lesson to be learned from this war and many others before it. Those who fight and die for these values are celebrated HEROS, Ukraine will live and prosper well after Putin is gone.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

"Peeping Tom - they either fight or they lose their country. I know which I would choose."

They are fighting and they will lose A LOT of territories, just like Finland did.

Then Western partisan media can write about another war Russia "lost"; just like the Finnish conflict is portrayed today.

Karelians would certainly disagree. though

All this could have been avoided if the West recognised that Russia will never accept Ukraine's NATO membership.

It's that simple.

The rest is a partisan media trying to distort facts, to a very gullible audience.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

Tom - so then countries should just give up territories to Russia anytime Russia decides it wants more land? Like without a fight?

3 ( +10 / -7 )

All this could have been avoided if the West recognised that Russia will never accept Ukraine's NATO membership.

Russia does not possess veto power over the foreign policy of independent nations. To expect Ukraine to submit to such control would make them a Russian vassal. This war is about the Ukrainians rejecting Russian domination. Is that so hard to understand ?

6 ( +11 / -5 )

I just have to wonder if there are drones that can be used to deliver supplies to the fighters in that steel mill? Even if it's a one way trip for the drone it seems like a better choice than abandoning them.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Good point, Desert Tortoise.

Tom, it sounds like you are not treating Russia and Ukraine as equal members of the community of nations. Almost like you think one of them has rights that the other does not. Why is that?

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Russian state media outlets reported Saturday that 25 civilians had been evacuated from the Azovstal steelworks, though there was no confirmation from U.N. or Ukrainian officials.

More like civilians were kidnapped and forced into Russia. This is not going to turn out well for Russia.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

The Ukrainians surrender and the Russians gain control of Ukraine’s land?

you are brainwashed. Russia wants the Ukraine Regime to stop the genocide of Russian speakers in Donbass and to honor Ukraine’s promise not to join NATO for Russia’s security reason.

ask yourself, why would the worlds largest county, and one of the richest…want to absorb the most poorest, most corrupt country in Europe, that is a bastion for Neo-Nazis?

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

"Russia does not possess veto power over the foreign policy of independent nations."

Neither does the US!

Yet we all know about Cuba.

Many more don't know about Grenada, yet they should.

Do you think an independent Scotland would be simply "allowed" by London to host Chinese or Russian troops?

Could Corsica invite Russian missiles, following independence?

What about Sicily?!

What if Canada or Mexico decided to 2invite" Chinese or Russian missiles threatening Washington DC?

The same countries/regions are "unfortunately "located in the "wrong" place. That's a fact.

As I said (and repeat) even the Devil deserves representation, especially in a situation like this one.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Rodney, there was not "genocide" of Russian-speakers in Ukraine. There was a Russian-supported separatist movement. The various reasons that Russia is giving for this war don't really pass the smell test. It is just a land grab for the industrial East and access to Crimea and the Black Sea. Please don't be snookered by Putin's claims.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Keep making Russia pay the price politically, economically, and with blood.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Keep making Russia pay the price politically, economically, and with blood.

Hitler tried the same strategy.

Russians paid the price willingly and entered Berlin on May 9th 1945 and surrounded him in his bunker.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

Tom - Sounds like you are arguing that might makes right. Are you arguing that the US has the right to bully other nations?

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Bronco - the difference, of course, being that Russia is the invading army this time.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

The thing is that the end game is going to be the third try at getting the Kiev regime to quit trying to force Luhansk, Donetsk, and Crimea to submit to a government that refuses to acknowledge what the majority of the population of the territory it wants to rule want.

And given that it has refused to honour the terms of the last two peace deals, this one will be designed to keep the Kiev regime from being able to get away with violating it.

I suspect that one of the clauses is going to clearly state that a majority vote in any region to reject the Kiev regime ends ALL ties to it

It'll also include a penalty clause if the regime tries to deny Crimea its water supply, limited military weapons.

It might include empowering both sides to lay war crimes charges before the JUDGES of the ICC (not having to go through the political chokepoint of the Office of the Prosecutor)

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

"Tom - Sounds like you are arguing that might makes right. Are you arguing that the US has the right to bully other nations?"

No, I am simply calling a spade a spade!

Legally Russia is WRONG.

Strategically, not at all.

Ukraine will not join NATO unless the West is prepared to go for WW3.

The US wants Ukraine to fight so that they could assess Russia's might.

I strongly submit the west will be making a huge mistake if they decide to intervene directly thinking Russia is somehow weak, therefore "easy meat".

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Richard - I don't think Ukraine is interested in what you are offering. It seems kind of one-sided in favor of Russia. But that is a decision for Ukraine and Ukrainians to decide, not you or the Russians. I guess we shall see!

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Tom, thank you for admitting that Russia is in the wrong. I wasn't sure with you. Some here are claiming the opposite.

I am fine with calling a spade a spade. I am critical of my own country when it does the wrong thing. I don't try to justify it using semantics. We need to get away from might makes right thinking unless you are ok with the mightiest just running everything.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

"Tom, thank you for admitting that Russia is in the wrong. I wasn't sure with you. "

I have a Law Degree and I am qualified as a Solicitor.

It's my obligation to know Russia is on the wrong side of the Law.

Strategically, that's another matter.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Good for you! It would be great if you could help those of us who are on Ukraine's side of this argue our case better against those on Russia's side. Ukraine could use the help, for sure!

3 ( +7 / -4 )

If the US cutting the check,they have a say so ,in Ukraine strategy

1 ( +4 / -3 )

said the women, who identified their husbands as members of the Azov Regiment of Ukraine’s National Guard.

so Azov did being their families into danger to use as shields, as was previously said.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

UChoosePoorly

Guterres had a long talk with Putin 2 days ago; watch it.

Political reality will trample all legalities in this case.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Tom - I guess we shall see! What are you predicting? What would you like me to "watch"?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

U, Russian got a command and control base,at 50.266448,38.108 14 miles from Ukraine border, should Ukraine use it weapon,rain hell on that base,with everything they have in their arsenal

1 ( +3 / -2 )

said the women, who identified their husbands as members of the Azov Regiment of Ukraine’s National Guard.

so Azov did being their families into danger to use as shields, as was previously said.

Every day, more Kremlin talking points....

Our far-right friends just can't help themselves in pushing and repeating Putin's lies and disinformation....

GOP really does now stand for "Gangsters for Putin"....

1 ( +8 / -7 )

I have a Law Degree and I am qualified as a Solicitor.

It's my obligation to know Russia is on the wrong side of the Law.

Would you mind commenting, from a legal standpoint, on the legality of the post maiden government which threw Molotov cocktails at the Parliament in Ukraine and after the Members of Parliament left for safety reasons the protestors sat in the empty chairs and declared "we are the new legitimate government of Ukraine"

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

The Chinese clearly understand that the Russian 'Special Military Operation' in Ukraine is just a small part of a much bigger conflict with the armed forces of the neo-liberal world order:

My colleagues and I have repeatedly pointed out that the conflict may appear to be a conflict between Russia and Ukraine, but in fact it is one between Russia and the US-led NATO. The EU should reflect on who is benefiting from this war, who has been turned into a battlefield in this war, and who has suffered the biggest loss during this war….

The US breached its assurances and continuously promoted the eastward expansion of NATO, which is undoubtedly responsible for the outbreak of the Ukraine crisis. The Russia-Ukraine conflict has triggered an unprecedented refugee crisis as more than five million Ukrainians entered neighboring European countries, while the US is staging a political stunt in accepting refugees. Only 12 Ukrainians entered the US through the refugee program in March. As the UN and the international community call for an early end to the conflict, the US continues to add fuel to the fire, clamoring for a fight “to the last Ukrainian”. Besides, the US keeps providing funding and arms to Ukraine. What it is really trying to achieve here is not peace, but the continuation the conflict so that Russia will be weakened, as admitted by the US.

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Zhao Lijian’s Regular Press Conference on April 29, 2022

It’s rather fascinating to see how the Chinese are talking openly about a reality at which the entire Western media has barely even begun hinting. It’s going to be fascinating to see how the media propagandists attempt to ignore their previous narrative, just as they’ve completely ignored the fact that their military experts were telling us that the Russian military was going to run out of arms and ammunition within 10 days about 45 days ago.

The Russians have been using far fewer troops than was originally assumed and reported, and I very much doubt this is because they have a much smaller military than was previously thought. They have also been using second-line troops and older armor. Which makes it obvious that Russia knew, from well before the start of the initial operations, that NATO was the actual enemy for whom it had to be prepared.

And it’s now equally clear that China knew it too. Which raises the obvious question: when is China going to open the second front?

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

ESL Mundi - It seems like you are on the side of Russia and China against the West. Why is that? Also, whatever happened to the Russian drive to Portugal that you assured us was going to happen in February?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

"Tom - I guess we shall see! What are you predicting? What would you like me to "watch"?"

Reply:

Guterres had a long talk with Putin 2 days ago; watch it.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Every day, more Kremlin talking points....

It’s a quote from the article. Did the Kremlin write this article then?

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Tom, got it. I've read the transcript. Which part would you like to draw my attention to?

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Copyright 2022 The Associated Press

unless this is “the Kremlin” now too?

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Guterres had a long talk with Putin 2 days ago; watch it.

And then the Russians tried to kill him the next day in Kiev.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Ukrainian commander inside Mariupol steel plant says evacuations of civilians have begun

Deputy Commander of Azov told CNN.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

"And then the Russians tried to kill him the next day in Kiev."

Guterres's approach is a Legalistic one.

This conflict won't be resolved by going to Court.

Paraphrasing Otto Von will be done "with blood and iron"

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

A handful of hostages will be permitted to leave while thousands languish in this Russian-made hell. It’s absolutely medieval.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

I'm just wondering if all these people making comments are against military aggression period or just this military aggression.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

This conflict won't be resolved by going to Court.

Paraphrasing Otto Von will be done "with blood and iron"

Ukraine: "Challenge accepted!"

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Every day, more Kremlin talking points....

It’s a quote from the article. Did the Kremlin write this article then?

Really? So point out for us where this "quote" is in the article; "so Azov did being their families into danger to use as shields."

Copyright 2022 The Associated Press

unless this is “the Kremlin” now too?

Using the hated "mainstream media" as a source for your argument...great, welcome to Team Blue...

4 ( +8 / -4 )

I am thinking you are trying a bit of revisionism because things aren't going so great for the Russians and their traitorous allies, but I will take a look at your sources, nonetheless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_battle_for_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Using the hated "mainstream media" as a source for your argument.

It’s who wrote this article you are commenting on that I quoted from.

it’s the source of my quote not my argument. my opinion is mine.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Using the hated "mainstream media" as a source for your argument.

It’s who wrote this article you are commenting on that I quoted from.

Yea, you "quoted from" - as in using a mainstream media to support your argument...good for you...

it’s the source of my quote not my argument. my opinion is mine.

So one more time, you said you "quoted from the article"....so where is this quote; "so Azov did being their families into danger to use as shields."

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The Azov Regiment has its roots in the Azov Battalion, which was formed in 2014 by far-right activists at the start of the separatist conflict in eastern Ukraine

yet I see be one of the few criticizing this “far right” group. Yet the incessant Trump poster calls me “far right” constantly.

something not adding up. Attacking me as supposedly far right is just a lazy personal attack that normalizes the far right. Elon Musk is far right this week too suddenly.

so why is this group hiding out with women and children and elderly if not to use as shields? Where are their own families?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

my opinion is mine.

And it has consistently been pro-Russian, anti-Western democracy, anti-democracy, especially anti-USAmerican democracy, supportive of the neo-Republican Party.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Black: My opinion based of what I quoted.

So what made you do a 180 on aid for Ukraine?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

I am fully against this illegal Russian invasion. Doesn’t mean I support the Azov battalion’s past or present action or am unaware of them.

What happened to being able to question or be critical of one thing without someone trying to claim that means you support another?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

And it has consistently been pro-Russian, anti-Western democracy, anti-democracy, especially anti-USAmerican democracy, supportive of the neo-Republican Party.

What kind of democracy is it when 25 members of Parliament who were voted in fair and square get banned?

What is your answer to the Ukrainians who chose to vote for a party is that is against Zelensky?

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Bronco - It's ok to be against Zelenskyy. There are multiple parties in the Ukrainian Parliament. The parties that have currently been suspended are the pro-Russian ones. Maybe when Russia goes back home, then those Pro-Russian parties will be allowed back. Maybe not. I don't blame the Germans for banning the Nazis. I certainly understand Ukraine banning pro-Russian parties. Democracy is not a suicide pact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada

2 ( +7 / -5 )

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