A majority of Americans want to preserve Confederate monuments: poll

The whole idea that these statues should stay to prevent "erasing history" is only promoted by people who have not studied a single aspect of the history of these statues.  

These statues are NOT monuments to the Civil War characters they depict. These statues were erected in response to various civil rights movements such as the one that ended Jim Crow laws and made some of the racists in society feel threatened by the (slowly) increasing view that people of color were not just equal, but going to be be treated equally by the law. These statues don't represent "honor" of the Civil War Traitors, they represent repression and racism, because of the reasons WHY they were erected in the first place.  

That's why every last one of them needs to come down and history needs to be taught properly, not revised by glorifying treasonous traitors to the UNITED... States of America!

Yep. Because one third of America doesn't have a problem with racism, and the other half don't want to think about it. Just like we don't want to think about, oh, how this continent belonged to other people when we showed up.

And we took it from them.

So, if Lib Dems, of which I am one, are dumb enough to try to refight the 60s, we will lose that fight.

But, if neo-Nazis and KK are stupid enough to press the point, we will win.

Because no one likes a Nazi.

Except Trump, of course.

Well it's a good thing Trump and his supporters don't believe in polling. Just ask them about the election night.

Just like we don't want to think about, oh, how this continent belonged to other people when we showed up.

And we took it from them.

You do realize that native Americans also took slaves. What should we do about that? Tear down the casinos? 

Interesting stories coming out about Boston rally. Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby summed up the rally events with this tweet:

The rally in a nutshell: “Excuse me,” one man innocently asked a Globe reporter, “where are the white supremacists?”

The New York Times reported that rally “participants appeared to number only in the dozens.”

So, struggling to find neo-nazis to condemn activists decided to attack the police instead. Or perhaps that was their objective all along. And why do antifa activist need to wear masks if they are in fact, promoting a righteous cause.

"A now-famous photo shows a stout young woman in North Carolina stomping on a statue of a Confederate soldier.

It is not a monument to the Confederacy or to the generals or to slavery. It is merely a statue remembering the sacrifices and suffering of ordinary soldiers.

The common man in the South had no truck with slavery. He owned no slaves. Instead, his earnings were reduced because he had to compete with slave labor.

But when the call went out to defend his country, he took the patriotic bait, as men always do.

More than a quarter of a million soldiers died on the Southern side alone – killed by bullets or disease… hunger or cold.

You’d think that people today – comfortable in their air-conditioned apartments… fed to a fault… and succored by student loans, Obamacare, unemployment comp, and disability – could find it in their plump little hearts to forgive the mistakes of their forebears and honor their suffering.

Nope.

Instead, we trash our grandfathers’ heroes, kick their gods, and smash their statues."

Also... George Washington had 317 slaves... just sayin'...

This is an interesting poll result. 41 percent believe the Charlottesville violence was precipitated by the Leftists or both. Only 28 percent blamed the white nationalists for the violence. Thirty two percent had no opinion? These results are hard to believe given the aggressive efforts by the Leftist media to downplay the militancy of the Antifa radicals and the various Marxist and black nationalist groups.

I think that any statues on public property should be retained or removed based on the wishes of the local community. Not mob vigilantism as seen in a few places. I understand that black Americans don't want to see reminders of the war that ended slavery.

But of course there are always those that takes things to extremes. A statue of Abraham Lincoln was all but destroyed in Chicago. The Lincoln Memorial in DC was defaced with obscene graffiti. Some on the far Left want to destroy Mount Rushmore because two of the four presidents were once slave holders. There is an astounding lack of understanding of history and and chilling willingness to obliterate history that does not suit the sensibilities of political ideologues. America is currently undergoing a low grade political war driven by extremists in the Left and Right.

SuperLibAug. 20  08:51 pm JST

Polls aren't by reliable. Just look at the election.

Next?

1( +4 / -3 )

This was your response yesterday when I referenced this very poll .

Ah, the beauty of selective memory.

Ask Trump supporters what they think of polls.

Yep. Because one third of America doesn't have a problem with racism, and the other half don't want to think about it.

Ok, so that's the excuse we're going with today? Now it's well, 1/3 of Americans don't really have a problem with racism? Lol

Just like we don't want to think about, oh, how this continent belonged to other people when we showed up.

So we should all leave now?

And we took it from them.

We weren't the only country that took something away and we didn't, it was the British, the French, the Dutch, the Spanish and the Portuguese. Talk to them. I didn't take anything from anyone.

So, if Lib Dems, of which I am one, are dumb enough to try to refight the 60s, we will lose that fight.

But, if neo-Nazis and KK are stupid enough to press the point, we will win.

Both groups are idiots.

Because no one likes a Nazi.

Except Trump, of course.

He does? Can you prove that?

I agree with any poll that doesn't have at the very bottom that 10-15 percent more Dems were polled.

Also as don't know really equals don't care the liberals are wasting their time on this one.

I don't believe in replacing history. When things done in the past are an embarrassment, adding an explanation is acceptable.

And stop renaming streets and buildings already.

All decisions around any historical marker of any sort need to be locally made.

I agree with any poll that doesn't have at the very bottom that 10-15 percent more Dems were polled. 

The US has more Democrats than Republicans. A 50-50 poll wouldn't be the indicative of the US.

In other words, don't let the effects of gerrymandering fool you into thinking you have a majority opinion.

Trump's son in-law and Chief Advisor is a Jew and the grandson of a holocaust survivor, yet some are claiming that Trump is pro-Nazi.

This is getting ridiculous.

Not really; Breitbart is pro-white nationalism and yet many on the far right align themselves with Israel.

https://theintercept.com/2016/11/30/growing-far-right-nationalistic-movements-are-dangerously-anti-muslim-and-pro-israel/

Moreover, it is certainly possible for a group or individual to be simultaneously pro-Israel and anti-Semitic. The cynical, grotesque alliance between pro-Israel Americans such as Joe Lieberman, and Jews-are-going-to-hell-once-the-Rapture-comes evangelicals such as the vehemently pro-Israel John Hagee, highlights that paradox. In the wake of the Bannon controversy, The Forward’s Naomi Zeveloff examined this increasingly common dynamic, arguing that “Breitbart News isn’t the only place where anti-Semitism and Zionism go hand in hand. Anti-Semitic attitudes abound in Poland, for example, even as Poland has a strong diplomatic relationship with Israel.”

Politics, as ever, makes strange bedfellows.

Also... George Washington had 317 slaves... just sayin'...

Washington (and Jefferson) didn't take up arms against the United States, though. Just saying.

Washington (and Jefferson) didn't take up arms against the United States, though. Just saying.

But you support the rest of my comment, right? lol

But you support the rest of my comment, right? lol

You wrote that, did you? Looks like a quote to me.

I think it's simplifying a very complex situation.

The statues are a focus point for nazis and should be removed. To museums.

The US has more Democrats than Republicans. A 50-50 poll wouldn't be the indicative of the US.

In other words, don't let the effects of gerrymandering fool you into thinking you have a majority opinion.

Here we go again. A recent poll also said that Democrats are having a problem getting support from the public and problems with implementing ideas. Doesn't sound good for you guys.

The Aug. 18-21 poll found that 54 percent of adults said Confederate monuments "should remain in all public spaces" while 27 percent said they "should be removed from all public spaces." Another 19 percent said they "don't know."

Does this mean that 54 percent of adults object to mob violence and to having mobs tearing down/destroying public and private property?

It's my guess that a majority of Americans support the 1st Amendment and reject violence, in spite of what the American media has been claiming.

So the new measuring criteria is whether someone took up arms against the USA or not as a convenient way to get rid of the "bad racists" but keep the "good racists". Sherman was a horrible racist but gets a pass because he fought on the correct side?

if all this is so that tells me this isn't even about racism at all. Plus the left is defacing Lincoln and Christopher Columbus so I don't think they get the nuances of the rules either.

toasted heretic, so it was ok to own hundreds of slaves just as long as he didnt take up arms against the US?

oh, the convolutions.

toasted heretic, so it was ok to own hundreds of slaves just as long as he didnt take up arms against the US?

No; it certainly wasn't. But hey; if you want them taken down as well, I'm with ya. Idolatry is so passée.

oh, the convolutions.

I'm sure Dubliners went through something of a crisis, too, when Nelson was unceremoniously despatched in '66. I mean; it was part of their history. Albeit an often brutal, colonial one lasting hundreds of years.

Stick 'em all in the museums or an underground bunker (wherever statue fans hang out) and start all over again.

Of course; this is all obfuscation. The real issue is the rise of nazism and white supremacy. But in the meantime, if it has to be moving statues, so be it.

Americans don't like how Trump handled the Charlottesville issue still

http://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-response-to-charlottesville-polls-2017-8

An ABC News/Washington Post poll shows 28% of respondents approved of the way Trump addressed the rally and its fallout, with 56% disapproving.

The numbers on Trump's Charlottesville response fall lower than his overall job ratings, which stood at 37% approval and 58% disapproval in the ABC News/Washington Post poll.

You wrote that, did you? Looks like a quote to me.

I think it's simplifying a very complex situation. 

The statues are a focus point for nazis and should be removed. To museums

Did the quotation marks give it away? It's a very good quote & forms a part (well, pretty much all) of my comment above... so the situation isn't really that complex :-)

I'm just trying to make sense of it all. I can't help but think that the statues are more of a focus point for people who think that they're a focus point for nazis. Comments above appear to condemn everyone who fought on the wrong side as 'Civil War Traitors'. The reality was that they were mostly just people who were doing what they understood as their patriotic duty. Right or wrong. They were just people.

To museums...? Better than erasing it altogether, but in some cases even that doesn't sit well. There is a monument in California due to be removed that says "in memory of the confederate states army who have died or may die on the pacific coast". Why remove it? Why now? I could be wrong, but the wording of this seems to suggest this particular monument was placed during the war.

Our modern 'progressive' society could probably take issue with just about any old monument around the world... find something abhorrent with how lives were lived... how people were treated... how much better we are now... we'd quickly find a modern interpretation for what a monument 'truly' represents... then round up our pitch fork carrying brothers & sisters and tear it down. If we did this we'd be left with nothing. Apart from sore feet from all the statue kicking - did you see those people?

I feel another quote coming on...

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." - George Orwell, 1984

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2017/voters_strongly_defend_washington_jefferson_lessons_of_the_past

Ninety-four percent (94%) of voters agree that it is better to try to learn from the wrongs of the past than to erase them. Just four percent (4%) think it is better to erase the wrongs of the past instead.

but when the 4 percent wear masks and carry baseball bats you better listen.

I thought about this situation for a long time.   Then I did some research.   After I did the research I came to the conclusion that the statues and monuments to confederate "heroes" have to come down, and if anything remains of them put them in a museum about the civil war in it's entirety.  

It's true that these statues were put up well after the civil war by the Southern confederate relatives and glorifiers of the region, and KKK not to "honor" their war "heroes" but to intimidate and continue to oppress afro-americans with their white supremacist views and make others feel inferior for such a foolish notion.     It is why the white supremacist groups are holding rally's to preserve this continuing method of intimidation against other ethnic groups.

The problem lies with when and why the statues and monuments were put up.   It's that simple.  Supporting it to remain, means supporting white supremacist views of ethnic inferiority and anti-civil rights in the modern and "civilised" era no matter how much some folks here try to defend it as "history".   It should remain in history books and in the estates and fields where the battles of the civil war were lost and won. 

Fact is, the monuments are being and have always been intended to be used as visual reminders and methods of intimidation against the former enslaved populace by the supremacists that erected them in the first place.   Nothing can change the truth.   And it is very ugly.

Moreover, it is certainly possible for a group or individual to be simultaneously pro-Israel and anti-Semitic. 

Oh you mean like all those Liberal/Progressive groups and individuals who say they love America while their actions reveal that they are actually anti-American.