Accused U.S. soldier flown out of Afghanistan

Should have put him on a drone and few his ass into a mountain.

Just because only one guy surrendered doesn't prove that there was only one assailant.

Ah oh, the US military made a BIG mistake!

This is going to further inflame things. The guy should indeed face trial in Afghanistan. It would obviously end in a more severe sentencing and punishment, I'm sure, but he killed 16 people and endangered things for all in the nation, especially foreign troops.

Something tells me they are not shipping him to Guantanamo. And the double standard hardly ends there. If he were Taliban, and killed Americans, his mental health would not get so much as a raised eyebrow. His name would certainly not be hidden either.

Panetta bringing up the death penalty is great lot of smoke up our rear ends. None of the pigs that raped 14 year old Abeer al-Janabi, then murdered her and the rest of her family, including her six year old sister, got death. Why would Mr. Protected Anonymity get death?

They should just let the Afghans deal with him.

Spirited away?

None of the pigs that raped 14 year old Abeer al-Janabi, then murdered her and the rest of her family, including her six year old sister, got death.

True, if ever there was a case for the death penalty and a military firing squad, that one was it. No death penalty for this guy either. In fact, no war crimes trials for any of America's allies unless they run afoul of the master (like Saddam did).

None of the pigs that raped 14 year old Abeer al-Janabi, then murdered her and the rest of her family, including her six year old sister, got death.

To be fair, the prosecutors did seek death for the main perpetrator (Green, and the only one who did not plea) but the jury didn't agree. So life without parole...

More hypocrisy and double standards from the land of the free... disgusting.

I think we should respect the culture of the United States. If the US wants to try him in the US then we'd be intolerant to say that it's the wrong decision. We should all put ourselves in the position of this soldier. I'm not defending murder, but who knows how we would react seeing our buddies killed over a book? Can you imagine sitting on your couch at home in the UK and suddenly some Christian extremists broke into your home and killed your friends because you burned the Bible? You wouldn't want revenge? We need to look at root causes here, people, and stop calling for blood. Violence begets violence. Depending on where you come this soldier could be considered to be a freedom fighter.

They should have just let the locals take of him.

I think we should respect the culture of the United States. If the US wants to try him in the US then we'd be intolerant to say that it's the wrong decision. We should all put ourselves in the position of this soldier. I'm not defending murder, but who knows how we would react seeing our buddies killed over a book? Can you imagine sitting on your couch at home in the UK and suddenly some Christian extremists broke into your home and killed your friends because you burned the Bible? You wouldn't want revenge? We need to look at root causes here, people, and stop calling for blood. Violence begets violence. Depending on where you come this soldier could be considered to be a freedom fighter.

Your post doesn't make sense. He should be tried in Afghanistan because he committed his murders there, murders he committed against Afghanis. You tried to justify his sociopathic cold-blooded killing spree by using the example of the Koran burning incidence and hypothesisng that we might do the same if our 'buddies' got killed. No, even if every friend he had in the military was killed, that still doesn't give him any justification or right to do what he did. Yes 'violence begets violence', but people need to be held responsible for their own violence and not blame it on the violence others did previously.

combinibento, the other four were tried by the military courts. There was no "main culprit". Of five, four were active in the rape and murders. Its just that Green was tried by a civilian court. All the incident shows is that the U.S. military is even more hypocritical than the rest of America.

But whether this case or that one, the prosecutors can seek death, or imprisonment on the moon even. It does not mean they actually have a snowball's chance of getting it. I know of several ridiculously criminal events in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Nobody got death. Not that I favor death, Its the hypocrisy that is the problem.

Let us also remember that America wants everyone but Americans liable to be brought before the IJC for war crimes. In the face of such hypocrisy, a token attempt by prosecutors for the death penalty is not going to make a dent.

oginome: You tried to justify his sociopathic cold-blooded killing spree

I clearly said that I'm against murder. What part of that didn't you understand?

but people need to be held responsible for their own violence and not blame it on the violence others did previously.

But I think we should look at root causes. Afghans should be looking at themselves and asking what they might have done to bring this on themselves. Can we really say that radical Islam played no part? Can we really say that daily suicide bombings had NO impact on this guy whatsoever? We need to think about the atrocities committed by the Afghan people if you really want to see an end to sad situations like this. Who knows what this guy would have been like had he not been exposed to so much Muslim violence. Another wasted life....makes me sad.

Seavey: Let us also remember that America wants everyone but Americans liable to be brought before the IJC for war crimes. In the face of such hypocrisy, a token attempt by prosecutors for the death penalty is not going to make a dent.

I want you to take a stand with me and pray that this man does not receive the death penalty. It's barbaric. One murder does not justify another. Let's hope that the US follows the example of the IJC and takes the death penalty off the table. We need to do what we can to protect him from the military legal system if they do in fact use such prehistoric punishments.

This US soldier committed an atrocity on innocent Afghan people, on Afghani soil.

He has to stand trial in that country and take whatever comes.

Wouldn't that be what would happen if this crime had been committed on US soil?

This US soldier committed an atrocity on innocent Afghan people, on Afghani soil. He has to stand trial in that country and take whatever comes. Wouldn't that be what would happen if this crime had been committed on US soil?

There was not even one American soldier/military personnel prosecuted in International court for war atrocities. American soldiers are exempt from prosecution internationally for war crimes. It is the sad truth.

I clearly said that I'm against murder. What part of that didn't you understand?

No, you definitely tried to justify it by bringing up the example of the Koran book burning and how we might feel if our 'buddies' got killed. Sorry, anything which happens in his life, whatever trauma or atrocity, doesn't let him off the hook, even slightly for what he did.

But I think we should look at root causes. Afghans should be looking at themselves and asking what they might have done to bring this on themselves. Can we really say that radical Islam played no part? Can we really say that daily suicide bombings had NO impact on this guy whatsoever? We need to think about the atrocities committed by the Afghan people if you really want to see an end to sad situations like this.

Oh please, Afghanistan being a backward, medieval hell hole with its religious fundamentalism and appalling human rights abuses still doesn't justify what this soldier did. NONE of the people who were killed were responsible for bringing it on themselves, the responsibilty FIRMLY rests with this soldier, no matter how many suicide bombings he had to witness or how traumatised he was by war. None of the 16 are to be blamed in any way for what he did to them.

Who knows what this guy would have been like had he not been exposed to so much Muslim violence. Another wasted life....makes me sad.

And who knows what these 16 people who he brutally slaughtered would have been like if they weren't exposed to homicidal American soldier violence. That's also extremely sad.

Depending on where you come this soldier could be considered to be a freedom fighter.

Nope. There is not a rational thinking person on the face of this planet that considers a man who murders and burns women and children while they sleep as a freedom fighter.

Dent, I can't say that I care for your black & white view of everything. There are sometimes shades of gray. Who are you to say what is right or wrong? Why are you forcing your ideals onto others? You sound like one of those Republican candidates trying to dictate morality.

Think of the thousands of soldiers who have served in Afghanistan through the years with dignity and honor. They all experienced the same horrors of war as this guy and did not go on murderous rampages. This guy does not deserve any special consideration; give him to the Afghanistan authorities to face whatever justice they deem fit. He does not deserve “rehabilitation” or any of the other “it is the systems fault” escape mechanisms used by those in today’s society to commit crimes and escape responsibility…… and yes, sometimes the death penalty is the ONLY penalty suitable for the crime.

What he did was horrible. No excuses or rationalizations. He deserves to be tried in Afghanistan. His victim's families deserve that he be tried in Afghanistan.

There was no "main culprit"

Seavey, by "main culprit" I mean Green was the one who pulled the trigger and killed each of the family members, including the young girl. But yes all were involved and participated in the crime so I agree they should all be equally accountable.

He's in Kuwait now. He could be tried in Afghanistan - he'll be tried in a military base either way, according to U.S.-Afghan security agreement, so it's not like the regular Afghans would get access to him either way. Though the Afghan townsfolk could gather and protest outside the base. Then again, that could turn into a confrontation situation which could end badly. Maybe if members of the aggrieved families are allowed to sit inside the courtroom, so at least they could see a trial.............

US military or not, Taliban or not, terrorist or not, crazy or not, depressed or not, I cannot fathom all my children being killed while in thier sleep by anyone. If I can say anyhting about what happened, I think the Afghans and the father as well, are taking this well. If it was my children, the soldier would have not made it out of the country....alive.

@Gurukun, I completely agree with you.

The soldier doesn't enjoy diplomatic exemption, the trial should be in Afghanistan. How come USA put herself beyond the international law, it make me angry.

Accused U.S. soldier flown out of Afghanistan

NATO should have accompanied him, why wait until 2013 or 2014 (?)

I'll say it again. The average overseas deployment during WWII was only 16 months. This guy was over 36 months and with a traumatic brain injury to boot -- something had to snap. Obviously, thousands of our brave service men and women have served in Iraq and Afganistan on multiple deployments without incident, but remember soldiers are not robots, everyone reacts to stress differently. Unless you have been there, you cannot pass judgement on this soldier...

Dent, I can't say that I care for your black & white view of everything.

But if I agreed with you then we'd both be wrong.

@john ni Naha

He has to stand trial in that country and take whatever comes.

Such an absolutist. Are you one of these hellfire and brimstone born again types?

@ The_Pope- right on!

I hope Obama's determination that anyone involved will be held accountable "with the full force of the law" extends to himself & Congress for deciding that it's okay to send Soldiers on multiple deployments to Iraq & Afghanistan year after year. This guy had already been to Iraq for 3 tours (sustaining a serious head injury during one) before getting sent to Afghanistan.

I'm not condoning what he did & perhaps it would've been better if he did what a lot of his fellow soldiers did- use his weapon on himself. But then he would've just been another "non-combat related" casualty report that no one pays any attention to anymore. At least this way he's started us wondering how much is too much for us to be expecting of these guys.

Its just that Green was tried by a civilian court. All the incident shows is that the U.S. military is even more hypocritical than the rest of America.

I'm trying to understand how his being tried in a civilian court and the others involved tried by a Military Court Martial ranks as somehow being hypocritical. Green was discharged from the Army before the crime was discovered and he was a civilian when he was arrested for his crime. He was under civilian jurisdiction not the Military's and duly tried there. The others were still in the Military when the crime came to light. A civilian court couldn't try them even if they wanted to as they were no longer under civilian jurisdiction but fell under the Military justice system instead and they were duly tried there.

Depending on how things pan out we'll have to wait and see. I think the US just needs to make sure this person is 100% beyond a doubt guilty of the crime before handing him over to the Afghanistan justice system (do they have one that actually is stable?). I'm pretty sure he'll be taking a trip back to face them. The US doesn't just want to hand him over without getting as much information as they can as to why he did what he is accused of, and they want closure. If they'd just handed him over without any questions asked then who knows exactly what happened and who is telling the truth.

That soldier is part of a brotherhood of the military! Trained to kill by the military! They would sooner make him disappear that hand him over! It doesn't take much in war to make someone snap! A quick story: In high school, my friend joined the army and was sent to Vietnam, he promptly got a dear john letter from the girl he joined the service in the first place, so he could get back and marry her! He was in his own hell and never recovered! The last time I heard anything about him, he was picking vegetables along side migrant workers in California! This insanity needs to stop!

I'll say it again. The average overseas deployment during WWII was only 16 months. This guy was over 36 months and with a traumatic brain injury to boot -- something had to snap.

This war has lasted about twice as long as WWII lasted. So I'm not surprised in the least that soldiers in this war have twice as much time "in country". Just saying.

While this does not happen often, American troops need to be accountable under local law. This is not during an invasion and the local government is foe. Taking him out of country and then not charging him because of medical, is going to cause a real problem in relations. I hear on fox "he does not deserve to die because..." Well the people he killed did not deserve to die, mostly children then women and what 2 men? Him doing no time will send the message that American lives are more important than Afghan ones.

Ah oh, the US military made a BIG mistake...

That would be three this month then. Too bad they didn't get this guy out of the country before he snapped. But getting him out now sends a really bad message that he's going to get away with murder. Note that Karzai has told the NATO troops to get back to their bases and stay there and the Taliban have broken off the "peace" talks. This was a really bad move.

I have no doubt that the guy wouldn't stand a chance in an Afghan court, assuming he got there in one piece. So I don't know if you hand the guy over knowing that. But moving him somewhere was a mistake.

Surely, it will cost US some other casualty of US troops there. It is ironic that other innocent US soldiers have to suffer for the crime committed by the guy(or and other few ones aiding the crime)

Superlib: But I think we should look at root causes.

Get out of their country and then look at root causes you maroon.

I have no doubt that the guy wouldn't stand a chance in an Afghan court, assuming he got there in one piece. So I don't know if you hand the guy over knowing that. But moving him somewhere was a mistake.

Some of his buddies from the same Washington-state base were guilty of "thrill-killings" of innocent Afghan civilians. If the US military is serious -- deadly serious -- about preventing these kinds of crimes by their personnel going forward, I doubt if there's a more effective deterrent than turning the perpetrators over to local justice.

Mealy-mouths on the board will wax effusive praise about US military judicial procedures, but the bottom line is that the families and social circle of the victims won't give a damn about them, nor should they.

If the US military is serious -- deadly serious -- about preventing these kinds of crimes by their personnel going forward, I doubt if there's a more effective deterrent than turning the perpetrators over to local justice.

I also doubt that throwing away a Military person's civil rights just to satisfy a political situation sends any sort of deterrent message to folks in the military.

I also doubt that throwing away a Military person's civil rights just to satisfy a political situation sends any sort of deterrent message to folks in the military.

Calling the slaughter of 16 innocent people, mostly women and children a "political situation" demonstrates precisely why the American military mentality can't be trusted to handle this situation appropriately.

Hand the murderer over to the Afghan justice system. Whether or not it has any deterrent effect on other soldiers tempted to take the same course is, at best, a secondary consideration. I seriously doubt if the U.S. military could come up with a more effective deterrent, however, short of leaving Afghanistan entirely.

Hand the murderer over to the Afghan justice system.

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply anymore I guess.

The prosecutors won’t be able to use statements from Afghan witnesses unless the defense is able to cross-examine them, he said.

Yeah, there's the American injustice system at work: Designed to protect some people, but not others.

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply anymore I guess.

Not when the culpability is obvious to any but the supremely delusional. How many other servicemen did the U.S. military take into custody or have transported out of the country over this incident? Who else is alleged to have committed these senseless, brutal murders?

What does not apply anymore is the standard conservative shtick of "victims' rights." Innocent until proven guilty definitely applies in more cases than just the cause of getting those whose cases draw sympathy from conservatives every consideration and benefit of the doubt. There are, however, some cases were it does not apply to some of the very conservatives who whine about it now. The so-called "war on terror" can supply many examples.

It's evident that the conservative stance on victims' rights is, of course, are dependent upon viewing the victims as inferior to Americans. A sense of superiority was, at root, was what motivated the killer. How else does one blow away little kids? The irony is that Americans are fighting in and for a country whose legal system and government we are demonstrating we do not have any faith in.

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply anymore I guess.

Based on that, you seek to not even send him to trial by the country he committed his crimes in?

It takes a trial to prove guilt or innocence. You may equate an Afghan trial with an automatic death sentence, but guess what? I would equate any fair trial with an automatic death sentence. I can't really see how it could be avoided EXCEPT for an unfair trial displaying gross favoritism. So I say, let the Afghan trial begin. Hell, that trial could even take place in a venue completely controlled by the Americans, with an Afghan judge and jury and running under Aghan proceedure. Fine with me.

Unless you have been there, you cannot pass judgement on this soldier...

He never should have joined up, just like all of them. He should have up and quit, just like all of them. I will judge them all on principle, and they all failed.

Not when the culpability is obvious to any but the supremely delusional.

Not Guilty by reason of insanity if he is found to be supremely delusion also doesn't apply I take it.

A sense of superiority was, at root, was what motivated the killer.

I'm curious since you do know everything about the circumstances, his motive and all could you also fill us in on all the other details? Childhood background, hobbies and such?

Based on that, you seek to not even send him to trial by the country he committed his crimes in?

I don't seek anything but to have him tried by the justice system that he is already in. It's why it was put there in the first place.

Not Guilty by reason of insanity if he is found to be supremely delusion also doesn't apply I take it.

If he's nuts, then we're supposed to trust the same military who declared him fit to serve to handle his case?

Yabits: I seriously doubt if the U.S. military could come up with a more effective deterrent

We both know that you aren't looking at this issue from a "deterrent" standpoint. At the very least you should be honest and say what you really think.

I don't seek anything but to have him tried by the justice system that he is already in. It's why it was put there in the first place.

Ah, so Americans put a justice system in place to protect other Americans when they butcher a bunch of women and children after invading their country. Sounds like My-Lai all over again.

A system of justice that does not recognize or regard other systems of justice and jurisdiction enough to decide that a person who commits crimes against the nationals of a country should be handed over for trial by the country where they committed their crimes is not just at all. The victims in the case are Afghans, therefore their views as to what justice entails must be given paramount consideration -- if the US justice system has any real integrity.

The irony here is that Afghanistan was invaded -- and many thousands of ordinary Aghans killed in the course of that invasion -- because the Taliban would not turn members of Al Qaeda over to American justice for crimes committed against Americans on US soil.

We both know that you aren't looking at this issue from a "deterrent" standpoint.

What I know is that you know next to nothing. And you've proven it yet again.

If he's nuts, then we're supposed to trust the same military who declared him fit to serve to handle his case?

Agreed, A totally Government run healthcare system, such as that in the Military really does have its drawbacks and really shouldn't be the model that some folks want to have for all Americans in the United States. I'm sure you will agree after this incident. I really do not see the relevance though as he will be tried under the Military Justice system which is totally seperate from the medical side of the Military house.

Ah, so Americans put a justice system in place to protect other Americans when they butcher a bunch of women and children after invading their country.

You need to go back about 200 more years prior to Vietnam.

The historical foundation for our military law and our criminal justice system is the 1774 British Articles of War. In fact, our first codes, the American Articles of War and Articles for the Government of the Navy, predated the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Through the First World War, the codes and the system went through some amendments and revisions but were substantially unchanged for more than 100 years.

Agreed, A totally Government run healthcare system, such as that in the Military really does have its drawbacks...

Ah, so now military-run health care is on trial here. And where do members of the military justice system get their psychological examinations for fitness for duty?

Agreed, A totally Government run healthcare system, such as that in the Military really does have its drawbacks and really shouldn't be the model that some folks want to have for all Americans in the United States

Oh dear, you're going to use THIS as your latest excuse for America's shameful privatised health 'care' system? How desperate.

I don't seek anything but to have him tried by the justice system that he is already in. It's why it was put there in the first place.

The military can and has waived its juristiction before. Not doing so now screams of saving face.

Not Guilty by reason of insanity if he is found to be supremely delusion also doesn't apply I take it.

Not to me, not in this case or any other murder case. This is not like shoplifting because of kleptomania. This is death. Why should a killer get a break because of mental issues? Don't they all have issues? Of course they do. About they only leeway I would give is to be locked up permanently rather than executed. But hey, let the Afghans decide.

The irony here is that Afghanistan was invaded -- and many thousands of ordinary Aghans killed in the course of that invasion -- because the Taliban would not turn members of Al Qaeda over to American justice for crimes committed against Americans on US soil.

Not only ironic, but blatant hypocrisy. Thank you for bringing that excellent point to my attention.

The historical foundation for our military law and our criminal justice system is the 1774 British Articles of War.

The Afghans would be well-advised to look to more-recent examples of how US soldiers can butcher dozens of innocent civilians and get nothing more than a few years of house arrest.

Ah, so now military-run health care is on trial here. And where do members of the military justice system get their psychological examinations for fitness for duty?

Your strawman argument not mine. But since you mentioned it the same medical system that you have obviously judged as flawed and untrustworthy I just agreed with your point about a totally Government run healthcare system.

The irony here is that Afghanistan was invaded -- and many thousands of ordinary Aghans killed in the course of that invasion -- because the Taliban would not turn members of Al Qaeda over to American justice for crimes committed against Americans on US soil.

The Taliban arrested Al Qaeda and then put them on trial? Must have missed that part.

The Afghans would be well-advised to look to more-recent examples of how US soldiers can butcher dozens of innocent civilians and get nothing more than a few years of house arrest.

Maid service is also included I take it.

.

Your strawman argument not mine. But since you mentioned it the same medical system that you have obviously judged as flawed and untrustworthy I just agreed with your point about a totally Government run healthcare system.

No, the 'totally government run healthcare systems' which exist in civlised, developed countries all deliver a far superior overall level of care to its citizens than America's disastrous human rights denying Health Care Inc. does.

Your strawman argument not mine. But since you mentioned it the same medical system that you have obviously judged as flawed and untrustworthy...

I never brought up the medical system; you did. Anyone can go back and read that I said, "same military who declared him fit to serve to handle his case?" It was you who tried to make "government health care" the issue.

A man who walks over 2 km to two villages, taking a can of gasoline with him, has got a lot of time to think about what he's going to do with it. He was sane enough to return to his base, turn himself in and demand legal representation.

The Taliban arrested Al Qaeda and then put them on trial? Must have missed that part.

It is quite evident that you have missed more than just a few things. The Taliban offered to take Al Qaeda into custody and try them in Pakistan or Afghanistan IF the United States would come forward and present its evidence as to who was directly responsible, as due process requires.

Maid service is also included I take it.

There is the military mentality showing itself again: making jokes about U.S. servicemen who have killed innocent civilians and gotten off scot-free. Referring to the slaughter of 16 innocent people, mostly women and children as a "political situation" demonstrates precisely why the American military mentality simply can't be trusted to handle this situation appropriately.

"the American military mentality simply can't be trusted to handle this situation appropriately"

LOL, even Barack Obama wouldn't say that.

Anyone can go back and read that I said, "same military who declared him fit to serve to handle his case?" It was you who tried to make "government health care" the issue.

For clarification, the "same military" includes his peers and superiors -- a majority of whom we would hope would not condone hating Muslims, burning Korans, desecrating corpses, and thrill-killing. (Torture, on the other hand, is perfectly acceptable now.) But it's plain that a number of them do condone that stuff -- possessing the kind of mentality that makes jokes about mass-murderers getting off with a slap on the wrist.

Apparently, the perpetrator of the killings of innocent children was flown to Kuwait without notifying that government -- and the Kuwaitis are understandably livid about the situation and want the person expelled from their country immediately. Of course, the Kuwaitis are likely to discover that they have no more control over this foreign military in their presence than they had over Saddam's.