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Afghan officials fear talk of exit strategy

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Then the Afghanistan government had better get their butts in gear and get to the business of getting their country's military and police ready to take control of their country. < :-)

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The babysitting that began under bush may well end under Obama.

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Let it go back to the Taliban. They might be winning the war, but they won't be able to run the country at this point. The people will rise up eventually.

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Skipthesong. You could not be more wrong. Allowing the Taliban to win will solidify their role in the region. Next will come Pakistan, a nation with nukes that neighbor India and much of the west could never allow to fall into Taliban hands. Thus a wider war would soon become inevitable as nations move to assure that the nukes are secured and Pakistan protected.

I have met quite a few Afghans and all say the same thing. Give us security and we will get on with life. That is what the people need. Protection from Taliban so that they can build up their lives. This means a new strategy. No more of the patrol and leave policy that makes Afghanistan into the new Vietnam. What is needed is a secure, occupy and manage approach. This must be maintained until locals invest enough in their own future to move on.

The wins for us. No wider longer war in Pakistan. No nuclear confrontation between a worried India and a dying Pakistan. No emboldened Taliban to cause regional problems.

What is required. Global help making this happen. This problem is not only America's problem. It is a global one and the other leading nations need to take an interest and get involved today.

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There are missions out there that have been going on for decades. I'm talking UN missions. This would be the perfect reason and time to set one up here to protect the people of Afghanistan and keep these Imperialists (the islamist versions) at bay. Come on UN it's time to step up to the plate and protect people for the human rights you so much want to advocate and uphold around the world. But I'm willing to bet they won't. No guts. No glory.

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tkoind2: Oh, you are right. But, its not our decision is it?

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tkoind2 -- very good points. But, I for one, think that it is about 8 years too late. Respectfully, you say that all the Afgans want is security, but, it appears that security has to include the right to grow most of the world's opium, and let war lords rule their own tribal areas. That is not something I want my tax dollars continuing to support. The U.S. gave Iraq security, and, as predicted by many, they can't agree on an election law due to factional fighting. What in the world makes you think Afganistan will be any different?

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Very reminiscent of the demise in Vietnam. Talk about Vietnamizing the conflict (a fancy way of saying "cutting and running"). The hint of such a policy will give Karzai and his cohorts a severe case of the craps. Why? Because they have about as much legitimacy with the man on the street as professional wrestling. Any arguments based on the premise that Karzai actually runs the country are fundamentally flawed. The current regime in Afghan control only so far as they can project power. The remainder of the country is a twilight zone.

On another note, I am dead against getting out of Afghanistan until such time as the Afghan government starts to show evidence of being able to function as a true governing body (it might take while). Why? Because as it stands, as soon as the US and its allies pull up stumps, Afghanistan will implode, with a resurgent Taliban in the box seat.

Indeed, why all this talk about quitting. The President (Obama) has just made a decision (at last) about what he wants to do. Now it is up to the commanders on the ground to earn their pay and fill those body bags (both with soldiers and insurgents). Despite the sanitized version of the conflict that we see on our TV screens, what is going on in Afghanistan is actually a war, where people will get killed. But hey, it goes with the territory.

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On another note, I am dead against getting out of Afghanistan until such time as the Afghan government starts to show evidence of being able to function as a true governing body (it might take while)

Then you'd be all for any of your family members being sent out there?

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Skip: You're wrong. If the Taliban retake Kabul (and the country) they will slaughter all those who they believed were against them, or stand in their way. As such there will be NO ONE willing to rise up, and things will remain that way until yet another foolish attempt to regime change fails, and they take over again, ad nauseum. Time is on their side, unfortunately. Also, if they DO retake Afghanistan, Pakistan will fold in terms of fighting the Taliban -- they left it for too long and even gave them sanctuary until world ire over it made them step up and try to drive them out of the areas they allowed safe haven.

In any case I agree with adaydream and others that say it's high time the government steps up and starts training its people to deal on their own instead of lamenting the inevitable exit of the US military, and giving the Taliban renewed strength by announcing the fact that such a pullout could give the latter group victory. Karzai IS a puppet, but he doesn't have to stay that way if he truly wants what's good for the country.

Sad situation, all around. Afghanistan has proven yet again it will not allow an occupying force on its soil for very long, and instead of it's own democratically elected government providing security, I'm afraid we're going to see a repeat of the civil war and Taliban (or equally as bad a group) take power. Hell, Karzai is calling on the Taliban to lay down their arms as we speak, and how much do you want to bet it involves some kind of deal that they are immune from punishment and can exist as they are (minus the weapons, which they will keep anyway)?

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Then you'd be all for any of your family members being sent out there?

Done my time son, ended up TPI (totally and permanently incapacitated) after 15 years in the army as an infantry officer among other things. If I hadn't had an accident, I would be over there in a heartbeat helping to sort out Uncle Osama and his wayward cabal.

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Send in the Afghan Hounds!!!

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We split from Nam, and look how well it is doing. Same might happen in Afgan? cough choke, vomit.

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From what I have been reading, a fundamental road block to anything happening here is Karzai.

He effectively only rules Kabul, if that, and is so in bed with other corrupt tribal leaders it's not funny.

Karzai has no control outside the capital, so the way I see it, he has to go first before any meaningful change begins to occur.

Perhaps some pressure from Washington to make him 'retire' would work?

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Obama is trying to sell this to the now majority of American people who are against the war. Without popular support, it could be a repeat of Vietnam.

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smitty: I know what I posted was wrong. But again, what are we supposed to do? Sushi: Not bad today, not bad at all.

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Have to agree with Skip. Sushi, an objective and a very good post nice to see that.

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I'm starting to think that the almost natural level of corruptness and lack of cohesiion between tribes in Afghanisan could well be why no foreign nation has ever prevailed in that country.

It's just like Iraq, but probably worse as Afghanistan has more tribal groups and factions than Iraq.

Which also makes me think that any U.S. troop surge is likely doomed to failure or at least going to have a very low probability of success.

The Obama admiistration realized long ago there is no military solution to Afghanistan.

What will upping security do? The way I see it, it may reduce IED deaths but will it do anything at all to reduce corruption?

Quite the opposite - it will likely create a SAFER environment for the corrupt individuals to operate in.

Looking back, I think Obama's demand to Karzai to cleanse his government of corrupt members is a real good start, all bias aside.

But how will this be checked, will there be name lists, and what is corrupt?

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I agree Karzai's got to go.

But is there anyone up to the job to replace him? Another equally corrupt politician is all they'll get IMO.

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Afghanis will have peace (of a relative sort) when the Taliban's Muslim financiers beyond Afghanistan's borders no longer have surplus petro dollars to throw away on sponsoring terrorism and the spread of the Wahabist cancer, and when their IED suppliers in Iran are dealt with. Does anybody with a brain in their head, when seeing the Taliban's 'holy warriors' pictured with land cruisers, assault rifles, cell phones, RPGs etc actually think they (or any Muslim peoples, for that matter) are capable of making these themselves?

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Karzai has to go?...talking about changing government like changing a pair of shoes!It is Afghanistan we are talking about ,very difficult ,very volatile,very complicated...Obama would not take that long to think if thats easy.

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I kind of see it as more of a permanent thing, not because of success or failure, but because there's no way you're ever going to get the Taliban mindset out of Afghanistan 100%. It will always be different degrees.

The key is to get Afghanistan to shoulder as much of the burden as possible, but considering that this area essentially definines the war on global jihad it's hard to believe that the US or our allies will ever really be 100% free from it. The surge will work to reduce the number of Taliban fighters, but I don't think it's going to erase the jihad. I'm not sure an exit strategy is really going to keep us safe in the long run. It doesn't mean we'll alwyas have 50,000+ troops there, but I think it's in our best interests to always have a presence there.

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"The Obama administration realized long ago there is no military solution to Afghanistan"

That must be why Obama has already increased troop levels beyond even what the Bush administration had there, and he's going to increase it even further.

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I hate to be the douchebag in all of this, but American soldiers fight for America's freedom so it's high time that Afghani soldiers fight for their own.

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"talking about changing government like changing a pair of shoes!"

A moot point because Karzai is going nowhere thanks to the election he rigged in his favour. You can't build a fledgling democracy on corruption.

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I foresee a Republican or even better a Libertarian presidential victory in 2012 and a whole new fleet of kick@ss predator drones that will allow our brave forces to extricate themselves from this over-lawyered political theater and let Uncle Sam get down to some serious and long overdue mass extermination of jihadi scum.

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"I foresee a Republican or even better a Libertarian presidential victory in 2012 and a whole new fleet of kick@ss"

You mean Robbie Rocket-Pants will be retired? Heh, I suppose will Chuck Norris must be drawing state pension by then....

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victimcrat - "I foresee a Republican or even better a Libertarian presidential victory in 2012 and a whole new fleet of kick@ss predator drones that will allow our brave forces to extricate themselves from this over-lawyered political theater and let Uncle Sam get down to some serious and long overdue mass extermination of jihadi scum."

You couldn't get a much better way to even further weaken America's standing in the world than doing something as idiot as that.

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Mass napalm and Agent Orange didn't solve Vietnam, and so won't carpet bombing Afghanistan with predator drones. Like Iraq, Afghanistan needs somehow a political solution to be sustainable years in the future.

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That must be why Obama has already increased troop levels beyond even what the Bush administration had there, and he's going to increase it even further.

In other words, President Obama is correcting the mistakes of his bumbling predecessor. Excellent! Out of Iraq, into Afghanistan - IF you want the USA to emerge victorious.

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