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Afghan security forces kill British, American soldiers

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What a mess... Rest in peace, poor soldiers. I really wonder when will the U.S. and NATO realize that Afghanistan is a lost case...

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Now Karzai should pay US$50,000 in comensation to each family, RIP.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I will withhold my RIP until I know why they were shot. Motive is something the press does not talk much about. It seems odd that these soldiers are there to shoot Taliban, and that is touted as motive enough to excuse just about anything, but if somebody shoots one of these foreign soldiers, no motive is sufficient.

It found Afghan soldiers saw their US comrades as rude, disrespectful and reckless with gunfire when civilians were nearby, while for their part American troops described Afghan troops as traitorous, lazy, drug-addled and corrupt.

It just goes to show the almighty self-righteousness of the foreign guests to declare the Afghan soldiers "traitorous". It means they expect loyalty toward America and NATO while they themselves are not loyal to Afghanistan, the country they happen to be in. The first loyalty of Afghan troops is to fellow Afghanis and Afghanistan. No surprise there. Not to say I even agree with such nationalism, but when you put soldiers together, they all think nationalism is grand. But since they all worship different nations, it creates massive conflicts of interest.

Its especially the charge that American and NATO troops are reckless with civilians life that you should pay attention to. That is because they are loyal to themselves and preserving their own lives much more than Afghani civilians. Not one of you would accept that from foreign troops in your own country, that is for damn sure.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Afghanistan is a lost cause. Let's just pull the troops and let Karzai deal with the rock-dwelling Talibans. The US keeps pouring billions of dollars every month for, what? NOTHING! The US should just keep Israel armed to the teeth, play nice with the Saudis and Kuwaitis to keep the oil flowing, and then let the Iranians, Iraqis, etc., fight over their piece of sand. We should just monitor the nuclear situation in Iran and just nuke their facilities when they get close to having a working warhead.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

i agree some14

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Wasnt this is a big laugh for those countries who see US/Nato were adversaries? They were ahowing the world how their men were 'expendables'!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Both sides should learn to always have their guns at ready in the presence of the other. That way, any hanky-panky means a shot to the head. Better be safe than sorry. Then once NATO leaves, the Afghan security forces know to do the same to each other because they know they will be slaughtered by the Taliban amongst them.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@lostrune2: Once the Nato leaves the taliban will takeover that country instantly! These mutiny has shown the taliban has infiltrated everywhere in the afghan government and nobidt can change this because the afghans refused to change themselves!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So far usa brought peace&democracy to iraq&afghanistan;NATO brought peace to libya,right? Then i wonder the reason for why local people of those countries still suffering? I dont u guys but i feel like most of us forget the fact that we are all human. Everyone tries to create their own kingdom while trying to destroying innocent lives. I dont care taliban nor usa;for me theyr like small kids who likes to play war games at the cost of innocent lives&blood. Every war,every fight &all ideologies are used for getting more power.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Seavey: I will withhold my RIP until I know why they were shot.

Ok. Let us know when you intend to release the hold on he RIP.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I say we all pull out.... then we make sure all the Afgans... Al Quaida, Taliban and regular Afgans stay exactly where they are within Afgan borders. While we're at it... we continually firebomb all their poppy crops.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I am sure Karzai will profoundly apologize, Obama-style... err no, strike that.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

It is absolutely crystal clear that a foreign presence in Afghanistan is not going to fix anything. Time to get out. Soon.

The best one could hope for would come from a united world effort to 1) tie robust financial aid and technical assistance to Afghanistan with progress in transparent and democratic government, human rights, education, and efforts to eliminate terrorist training facilities, AND 2) hold Pakistan accountable to be a responsible player by the same means. Pakistan should be made aware that any more ISI hanky-panky in Afghanistan will not serve its interests, and that positive influence will. The Taliban is going to have to be part of the solution, like it or not, but it does not have to be the only one.

That may sound like a tall order, but the current strategy is a taller one.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Let us know when you intend to release the hold on he RIP.

Okay!

until I know why they were shot.

Gotta tell you everything twice.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

I want each of the families of the slain British and American soldiers to be paid $50,000 by the Afghan government.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Serrano,

I want each of the families of the slain British and American soldiers to be paid $50,000 by the Afghan government.

Why? There is a massive difference between what the US soldier did killing innocent women and children and this a military person killing another military person.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Cletus is correct. This would go back to standard rates of a few grand.

I still await the motive for this one. Somehow I don't think we will ever hear it, nor will the defense of post-traumatic stress disorder be considered for even a New York minute.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Why? There is a massive difference between what the US soldier did killing innocent women and children and this a military person killing another military person

Cletus...I assume you are merely trying to be argumentative and that you are not really as ignorant as this statement makes you seem. By your line of thinking, any military member of any country is fair game to kill them at will? What if the British decided to retaliate by killing a few Afghan military members, you'd be ok with that?

Think before you type please...

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Tizalleyman,

Cletus...I assume you are merely trying to be argumentative and that you are not really as ignorant as this statement makes you seem. By your line of thinking, any military member of any country is fair game to kill them at will? What if the British decided to retaliate by killing a few Afghan military members, you'd be ok with that?

I'm sorry but you do realize that military personal join the military knowing the risks they are taking. There job is dangerous and in its raw for is basically kill or be killed when in a war zone. These men where in a war zone.

Military personal of all sides are targets in war it's sad but it's a fact of life. Civilians in bed owever are different, regardless of being in a war zone or not they shouldn't be murdered in their houses in their beds by a mad man.

So no lm not being argumentative, serrano's comment was insulting to compare soldiers killed in action to civilians murdered in their beds.

Think before you type please...

Hmm could say this right back to you

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@Cletus I do agree with you on some points of your comment, but then again with your previous comment when the US killed and wounded some Canadian soldiers from friendly fire that same logic could be applied. If we keep with that line of thinking nobody should work together to accomplish anything.

Soldiers kills soldiers in war, thats a fact. But "allies" should not be shooting allies especially if they can accomplish so much more working together than seperately. The killing of innocent afghan civilians doesn't lie only on the US and Nato forces as much as it will be paraded around by those that do most of the killing in order to degrade and destroy any positive deeds Nato has done otherwise. During the qur'an burning riots, and even well before that many more innocent civilians were killed by unidentifiable "soldiers" of the same country.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

HonestDictator,

I agree that allies should not be killing allies. But in Afghanistan it has been shown time and again that allies are not nessacarily allies true?

The point l was making was based arou d serrano's ridiculous comments nothing more nothing less. I am not justifying the killing of anyone but l am saying there is a massive difference between the US soldier killing civilians and a military person being killed in a war zone by another soldier.

That is all

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I'm sorry but you do realize that military personal join the military knowing the risks they are taking. There job is dangerous and in its raw for is basically kill or be killed when in a war zone. These men where in a war zone.

I'm sorry, but what I do know is you don't know a d*mn thing about the military. I have served for over 22 years and in no instance is it ok to turn a weapon on an allied troop unless you are defending your own life from attack. And, in case you haven't heard, we are NOT at war with the Afghanistan people, this is NOT a war zone. There is no war going on. The US personnel that are still in the Middle East are there in a supporting role to help the Afghan gov't until it is ready to assume is own role in protection.

The senseless slaughter of 17 people occurred at the hands of an apparent psycho that cracked. He has not been tried or convicted of his crimes yet, so I'll not condemn him. But mark these words...this was not an act of a soldier. This was the act of a criminal and a butcher. Do not lump my military brothers and sisters into the same category as a murderer...

3 ( +4 / -1 )

This is a message board, Tiza. You'll find that 22 years of service won't amount to much when you're going up against people who have anecdotal evidence and an agenda.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Tizalleyman

I'm sorry, but what I do know is you don't know a d*mn thing about the military. I have served for over 22 years and in no instance is it ok to turn a weapon on an allied troop unless you are defending your own life from attack.

Wow, so l know nothing... Ok! So for someone with as much military experience as you then surely in your 22 years of service you would have realised that you were in a dangerous occupation unless of course you spent 22 years as a fobbit... At no point did l say it was ok for allied troops to attack each other please learn to read. My initial post was expressing disgust at someone's comment that the Afghans should pay $50k to each of these soldiers. This person was trying to make the killing of innocent civilians in the same class as soldiers dying in a war zone. And that is a massive difference. Oh and for the record l dont know about you but when l joined the military l was aware of the risks and dangers involved in my chosen occupation. However as a civilian now l do not expect to be murdered in my house by a rampaging soldier.

One more thing while you are being all high and mighty while you do not expect to be attacked by an allied soldier in wars like Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam military personal need to be vigilant about the indigenous military personal especially in insurgent type conflicts that is why even in base you carry a weapon. While you like to trust the locals you just never know as this has clearly shown.

And, in case you haven't heard, we are NOT at war with the Afghanistan people, this is NOT a war zone. There is no war going on. The US personnel that are still in the Middle East are there in a supporting role to help the Afghan gov't until it is ready to assume is own role in protection.

Huh, so there is no war in Afghanistan? This is not a war zone? Im sorry but you need to go and have a chat to some of your military brothers and sisters working in Afghanistan l am sure they would love to hear you say they are not in a war zone. Im sorry but your comment here defies belief. The US, and coalition troops in Afghanistan while training and supporting the Afghans are still fighting a war. If you think otherwise you need to seriously talk to some returning troops.

The senseless slaughter of 17 people occurred at the hands of an apparent psycho that cracked. He has not been tried or convicted of his crimes yet, so I'll not condemn him. But mark these words...this was not an act of a soldier. This was the act of a criminal and a butcher. Do not lump my military brothers and sisters into the same category as a murderer...

I am not lumping anyone in the same category as this guy. But l do take offence at people trying to lessen the disgusting act that this man committed by comparing it to the killing in a war zone of soldiers. Now that is disgusting and as a former military person lm sure you would understand that

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The thing that I don't get about the $50,000 figure is that most of the shooting victims were members of the same family. So was that $50,000 total given to the one family member who survived, or did he get $50,000 x 17?

some14some, Serrano, WilliB, anyone--what is the typical settlement from soldiers' insurance to surviving beneficiaries? More or less than $50,000?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Seavey: until I know why they were shot.

When you get the info you need to make a decision, let us know. That's all I'm saying. Until then we'll just have to say that maybe you will offer a "rest in peace", maybe not.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

TorafusuTorasan

some14some, Serrano, WilliB, anyone--what is the typical settlement from soldiers' insurance to surviving beneficiaries? More or less than $50,000?

It seems that no one is willing to answer that. But it appears that the benefits are generally between $100,000 and $400,000 depending on who the beneficiaries decide to take the money. And that doesnt include separate policies that they may have.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Huh, so there is no war in Afghanistan? This is not a war zone? Im sorry but you need to go and have a chat to some of your military brothers and sisters working in Afghanistan l am sure they would love to hear you say they are not in a war zone. Im sorry but your comment here defies belief. The US, and coalition troops in Afghanistan while training and supporting the Afghans are still fighting a war. If you think otherwise you need to seriously talk to some returning troops.

No, there is no current declaration of war in the country of Afghanistan. No, Afghanistan is not a war zone, and no we are not at war with the Afghan military or people. We are in a Congressionally authorized military engagement against recognized terrorist groups. Whatever beliefs you have, then I guess this defies them, because it is a simple truth. And there is no need for me to talk to anyone about the conditions in Afghanistan. I'm currently on my third deployment...

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Oh and for the record l dont know about you but when l joined the military l was aware of the risks and dangers involved in my chosen occupation. However as a civilian now l do not expect to be murdered in my house by a rampaging soldier

And I don't expect to be shot in the back by a person that I am currently placing my life on the line to defend...

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Tizalleyman

No, there is no current declaration of war in the country of Afghanistan. No, Afghanistan is not a war zone, and no we are not at war with the Afghan military or people.

Ah ok, just like there was no war with Korea (that was a police action remember), Vietnam (that was undeclared), Grenada, Panama, or Iraq. Just because it is not declared doesn't make it any less of a war.

We are in a Congressionally authorized military engagement against recognized terrorist groups. Whatever beliefs you have, then I guess this defies them, because it is a simple truth. And there is no need for me to talk to anyone about the conditions in Afghanistan. I'm currently on my third deployment...

Hmm so l guess seeing how its so peaceful you know with no war going on there and no fighting you may as well come home then. As l said maybe you should go talk to those fighting your non war and ask there opinions on the matter. Because l know for a fact they would have very different opinions about it, whether you call it a war, a conflict, a sanctioned action its all the same at the end of the day. Funnily enough though even your own government refers to this 'action' as part of the "war on terror" so you better go talk to your bosses as they seem confused too.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Tizalleyman

And I don't expect to be shot in the back by a person that I am currently placing my life on the line to defend...

Well given the climate around this 'action' then you are either very silly, gullible or well yeah....... If you have as you say been in the military 22 years then you would be well aware that these types of events happen regularly in this type of conflict. Always has, always will sadly and surely you realise this

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Hmm so l guess seeing how its so peaceful you know with no war going on there and no fighting you may as well come home then. As l said maybe you should go talk to those fighting your non war and ask there opinions on the matter. Because l know for a fact they would have very different opinions about it, whether you call it a war, a conflict, a sanctioned action its all the same at the end of the day. Funnily enough though even your own government refers to this 'action' as part of the "war on terror" so you better go talk to your bosses as they seem confused too.

Believe me, I look forward to coming home, one more month. And as I said, I don't need to talk to anyone about the fighting, I AM ON MY THIRD DEPLOYMENT. I don't know what military you were in, but if you don't understand that phrase, I am currently serving in the Middle East theater. I can't say exactly where, but hopefully you get the point. And every military person knows that there is a difference between a war and a sanctioned action. There are different rules for both, and if you had truly spent any time in, you'd know the difference too...

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Tizalleyman

Believe me, I look forward to coming home, one more month. And as I said, I don't need to talk to anyone about the fighting, I AM ON MY THIRD DEPLOYMENT. I don't know what military you were in, but if you don't understand that phrase, I am currently serving in the Middle East theater. I can't say exactly where, but hopefully you get the point.

Oh l understand totally what a deployment is and means. And yes you are on your third deployment to the Mid East theatre. But as l pointed out the other day, this could mean you are sitting on a ship deployed in support of the Afghan mission, it could mean you are sitting on an airbase in the Mid East is support of the operation in Afghanistan. To say lm on my third deployment to the theatre doesnt mean you even in Afghanistan, this might confuse some people and impress the girls but hey. That being said l wish you the best of luck for the remainder of your deployment and rotation back home.

And every military person knows that there is a difference between a war and a sanctioned action. There are different rules for both, and if you had truly spent any time in, you'd know the difference too...

Yes there are big differences between the two, different rules etc but the bullets and bombs do the same damage whether it be a war, a conflict, or a sanctioned action or and operation. Whatever your country chooses to call it is fine but you die just as dead and you hurt just as much no matter what name the politicians give it. I may not have spent 22 years in the military like you but in my time l did learn a few things and just because my length of service is not up to your standards (through circumstances beyond my control, l think you will know what l mean there) doesnt mean l cant have an opinion.

We seem to have gotten a bit side tracked here anyway. My initial post was in response to a comment made by someone claiming these US and Brits should be paid the same as the civie's that where murdered and l was merely pointing out my disgust at those comments.

So as l said best of luck with the rest of your deployment.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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