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Afghans riot as anti-foreign resentment grows over Quran burning in Florida

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I wouldn't be surprised if this reverend is attacked by irate muslims in the near future.

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This issue is nowhere near as simple as the news is treating it. On the face of it the news seems to be presenting this as a black and white, "One bunch of fanatics burns a Quran, so another bunch of fanatics kills 11 people", and it seems like the second bunch of fanatics is obviously worse since burning a book in no way justifies killing people.

However this entirely ignores the larger context. The U.S. has been conducting illegal bombing raids in contravention of the Geneva Convention for years, resulting in more civilian casualties than confirmed Taliban casualties.

The Quran burning has just focused a lot of rage, and while the death of 11 international workers is very sad and shouldn't have happened this has to be considered in the context of the hundreds of innocent Afghan women and children killed by the U.S., and this violence is onging with no prospect of ending anytime soon.

There isn't a right or wrong side here, however the attempt to portray this as simply relating to the burning of a book is idiotically short-sighted.

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Karzai is a moron.

Pretending that militant islamists are mentally normal is the problem.

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It is all well and good to scapegoat the Florida preacher, but where is the blame for the U.N. for not securing their compound? As the article states, this has happened before. Yet, the U.N. has just 6 Nepalese guards, who had orders not to shoot into the crowd versus a mob of 3,000 Afghanis and an unknown number of Taliban killers in their midst.

Where was the machine gun nest that could have stopped this tragedy with a few good bursts? Why weren't the U.N. personnel properly armed for a war zone? In colonial days, there would be 50 dead natives for every dead Westerner under a similar scenario, so if anyone is to blame (besides the killers themselves) it is the U.N. for not protecting its employees against a violent and volatile people.

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Why would the very reverend Terry Jones poke his stick into a hornets' nest?

Well, to prove to others that he can, and that he has not only the 'right' to do so, but also that he is not afraid to do it, and besides, he's ornery.

It is in the nature of hornets to express mass anger and sting anyone nearby. If he cannot understand this, then he needs to get an education.

And the hornets? Well, as a first step they need to learn how to control their emotions, or they'll start stinging even themselves.

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Frungy gives us the backround that explains why violent riots are happening in Afghanistan only but none in all the other Muslim countries. Meanwhile Bebert61 begs for more of the action at the heart of the bloodshed in Afghanistan.

I assume good faith for one poster. I do not for the other.

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manfromamerica Pretending that militant islamists are mentally normal is the problem.

No, pretending that militant islamists are not working for the Pentagon is the problem.

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The American occupation has outlasted the Soviet occupation and is an equal failure. When are these overconfident Americans going to learn? I thought they learned their lesson in Vietnam but I guess not. The Soviet experience was pretty much enough for anyone to figure out what a waste trying to fix Afghanistan is. Even the movie "The Man who would be King" could have given you a clue.

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If someone burned a bible, even my own bible, I would just consider that person an idiot to throw away his (or her) chance at eternal life, forget about them, and go about my day. I surely would not murder anyone over it.

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Frungy: There isn't a right or wrong side here, however the attempt to portray this as simply relating to the burning of a book is idiotically short-sighted.

What you're doing is a vain attempt to apply logic to the actions of irrational people. Perhaps you feel that if you're able to do that then with a slight modification in your own behavior you can control these people to some extent. In reality you're dealing with brainwashed religious zealots and if there is a chance you agree with them it's just mere coincidence, not some kind of shared understanding. We've seen death caused by the publishing of the image of Mohammad, we've seen political leaders killed in Europe for their stance regarding Islam, we've seen movies and TV erase instances of Mohammad or the destruction of Muslim symbols....all of out fear. So you're right, it's not just about the burning of a book, it's about religious fundamentalism.

And don't forget that the vast majority of these religions killers kill other Muslims in Muslim countries. I keep hearing people repeat the sins of the West in threads like this but they never seem to show their heads when a Pakistani killed other Pakistanis or when Afghans kill fellow Afghans. It's obvious they will kill whether the West is involved or not, so I'm not buying the "root cause" theory unless their victims are exclusively Western, which they aren't even close to being.

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Superlib, what you are doing is a vain attempt to absolve the U.S. military of any responsibility or wrong-doing, as per usual.

Even irrational people get frustrated when neighbors get targeted by cowardly foreign predator drones. Just because they irrationally lash out at the wrong people does not mean their actions are totally unfounded. But they can't get to Langley, Virginia to get at the predator drone pilots. And the predator drones are the tip of the iceberg.

All of this will culminate in another attack on American soil eventually. And you will be here professing American innocence, no doubt.

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'“I don’t think we should be blaming any Afghan. We should be blaming the person who produced the news _ the one who burned the Quran,” he said.'

Well, yes and no. It IS an example of cause and effect, but the 'effect' must be blamed on the people who committed murder, not the pastor (who is an outright fool).

SuperLib: "In reality you're dealing with brainwashed religious zealots and if there is a chance you agree with them it's just mere coincidence, not some kind of shared understanding."

Agreed, and the pastor who burned the Quran is no exception (religious zealot). My guess is that you were just talking about Muslims, though.

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Oh, and Superlib, all the killing over religious symbols you cite have not been widespread, and this event is limited to Afghanistan while all other Muslim countries or even extremists or fundamentalists have not rioted over this. That means your explanation is seriously lacking.

You are right to point to out that the extremists kill their own. Well, guess what? We don't care so much about that. What we care about is when it has some direct relation to us westerners, because that can come back to us, and taint our messages of tolerance and freedom. Surely, I would prefer than no one kill anyone else, but when they do, I would rather they do it without being able to legitimately cite my government's wrongdoings to them. Whatever you say, the protesting was legitimate. The fact that it turned bloody does not change that fact. But we all know that protests often turn bloody no matter how legit they are. Therefore, the U.S. government is connected.

Why are the Afghanis being punished for 9/11 these last ten years anyway? Some punishment for aiding al-Quaida was certianly warranted, but the perps were not Afghanis. Ten years is way, way, way over-kill. Is this just a game to push them to the breaking point of attacking the U.S. themselves? Its not a very funny game. But for some I bet sure is profitable!

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Afghanis have not been punished for 10 years, Mangaman. Punished, no. Protected, yes.

The Taliban government of Afghanistan was brutal, anti-educational, racist, iconoclastic and guilty of ethnic cleansing. They also harbored Al Q'aida training camps.

Those camps were hit and the Taliban were kicked out and since then the UN forces have made supreme sacrifices to protect Afghani citizens from Taliban intrusions. UN forces would love to pull out and go home tomorrow if they could, but it would be totally inhumane to do so.

If they pulled out now, the killing and bloodshed, and the punishment you talk about, would really start in earnest.

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With protection like this, who needs punishment?

Afghanistan is a mess. It has always been a mess and it will always be a mess. There is only one real choice, and that is to either be a part of the mess or not a part of the mess. When we are part of the mess we risk our own, and for nothing.

I feel sorry for the Afghanis, they have to fix their own problems. It is impossible for us to do it for them and its a fool's bargain to try. I cannot think of any colonization or occupation that turned such a backward violent country viable. Its like expecting a man to become a great fisherman by simply giving him fish!

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"The American occupation"

America is not occupying Afghanistan - check it out! ( be sure to check a legitimate news source )

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According to a significant number of Afghanis who do not want them there, yes they are occupying Afghanistan. They certainly were not invited to go, even if the now recognized government asked them to stay. You would not let the Soviets, the Chinese or the Nazis off so easy, you would claim a puppet government, and your bias is clear.

The U.S. might withdraw one day, the government in Afghanistan will be friendly to U.S. interests, including commercial, whether the majority of Afghanis want it or not.

Sorry, but "just trying to help" got the Soviets no slack, and so the Americans get none either. Until the U.S. military is no longer in the country or controlling the borders, it is an occupier.

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It is beyond my comprehension what the Afghans really want. But it seems freedom, democracy, peace are not at the top of their priorities. What we have here is like a huge cauldron of a lethal poisonous brew that had better be left alone.

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presto345: "But it seems freedom, democracy, peace are not at the top of their priorities."

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you here, but keep in mind the US in particular has proven over the last decade that the words you mention have little or no meaning. Define 'freedom, democracy, and peace' if you think I'm wrong.

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If you want to blame anyone, blame the imams who whipped the faithful into a frenzy at Friday prayers. THEY are the ones who overstated what happened, much like the "mohammed cartoon" controversy a few years back. The original story wasn't controversial enough, so they (the imams) made up even more extreme cartoons and displayed them.

As far as I'm concerned, Afghanistan isn't worth one more dollar or drop of blood. Offer to give refugee status to those Afghans who want to leave and are in danger (such as women or professionals) and then abandon the place. Battle Royale for those who choose to stay behind.

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Until the U.S. military is no longer in the country or controlling the borders, it is an occupier.

I believe that NATO is also in the country, France, German, Denmark, etc, European troops. Yet you only point out the U.S as the bad guy. Interesting take you have there.

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Oh, for cryin' out loud, human beings are human beings wherever they are born, and they should all have fundamental human rights which were not permitted under the awful Taliban, who would still be ruling Afghanistan were it not for the United States of America and her allies. Yeah, it's still a mess, but it's a lot better than having the awful Taliban running things.

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When a nation, such as Afghanistan, goes through a state of transformation from an agrarian to an industrialized, the citizens are forced to confront many changes at once, such as we’ve witnessed the West undergo in its transformational stage. The West luckily had centuries of preparation—government, business, education, and all the infrastructure that it takes to nurture a “civil society”. Nations such as Afghanistan are just now doing what you might call “turning on a dime”—impossible without cracks developing everywhere from the stress. What we’re witnessing, the so called “Hatred against US”, is “unorganized creative energy” searching for it’s focus.

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Well Sailwind, I never said occupation was always a bad thing did I? I do believe most of the lower ranked Americans, military and not, have their heart in the right place. I could say that for the Soviets of the former occupation as well.

But the Americans at the controls, the government? Nope. They most certainly do not have their hearts in the right place. And they are the primary instigator and the overwhelming majority of boots and military hardware in Afghanistan. Everyone else amounts to a bunch of Mini-me's, but I do trust them more. The Europeans have been backing off of colonialism while the U.S. is expanding it after re-branding the product.

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After all that is said and argued here, the root cause is Terry Jones' burning of the Koran. Why has he to provoke the Muslims? He should have known better in the first place that what he had done was a downright insult to another's religion. But he could not care less about the consequences. He went ahead and did it! Sure enough, he got what he wanted, only this time it came from Afghanistan where the people are already a harassed and frustrated lot from years of war and fighting there.

...... and then Terry Jones absolves himself of this manipulative provocation by saying "Islam and its followers were responsible for the killings". Calling him a "Christian terrorist" is a mild way to classify such a person.

As a leader of his Christian fratenity, he had shown such a bad example. And will this help to convince the world that the Christian faith is a better faith? Of course not. It puts the Christian faith to shame.

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...and Jones would say that HIS root cause was 9/11. Or the London subway bombings. Or the attack on the marine barracks in Beirut. Or.....

get the picture?

The consequences are squarely on the shoulders of those who did the killing, and those who whipped them into a frenzy. Or are you one of those racists who think that Muslims are so immature and barbarous that they are incapable of controlling themselves, incapable even of targetting the person who so insulted them?

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@Mangaman

The Europeans have been backing off of colonialism while the U.S. is expanding it after re-branding the product.

Huh aha... that's it.... I had been trying to put a grip on what I had for a while been suspecting but could not put a name to it - "colonalism" (though under new brand and new kind of packaging).

It was an Iraqi workmate who a few years ago, had quietly said to me "we are under American occupation". It me, the US were and have always been saviours, how can they be "conquistadors"? What he said had left this burning question in my mind. But now, bingo! That's it - it's "Colonalism".

The world does not change does it? History repeats itself. Until the end of time.....

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Idiotic, really but hey! try to exercise your freedom of expression, by walking in a SM leather suit like and holding a panel claiming that Jesus is gay next to Terry Jones'a church. You won't go really far. Whatever, you have idiots everywhere. Truly sad.

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ok so because of a wierdo burning a Quran in Florida, They Protest? BUT they Don't ever Protest their own People being KILLED!!?? By extremists. thats UNBelievable & Just Brainless.

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The Europeans have been backing off of colonialism while the U.S. is expanding it after re-branding the product.

Have to say if that is the case, we Americans suck at the colonialism thing. I mean we can't even get our puppet Karzai to quit sniveling every time Afghan civilians are killed. You'd think he would have got the memo from his American masters to shut up and be quiet, it gets the locals pretty steamed and makes that colonial thing even harder to do. Also you'd think if you wanted a colony you'd pick a country that had at least some decent infrastructure and some oil or minerals to exploit. Shoot even some agriculture at least to sell on the world markets instead of black market opium and heroin. Have to say we really do suck when it comes to our colonies.

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President Hamid Karzai expressed regret for the 20 protest deaths, but he also further stoked possible anti-foreign sentiment by again demanding that the United States and United Nations bring to justice the pastor of the Dove Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, where the Quran was burned March 20.

So instead of addressing your own failing and corrupt government, the protests, or anything remotly productive you focus your people's anger at some hillbilly that burned a book a few thousand miles away that probably can't find your country on a map. True to form the Afghan's take it hook line and sinker and do what they always do when they're mad at America...kill each other and/or the poorly equipped U.N peacekeepers because honestly, they're crazy but not crazy enough to take on a U.S base that would actually do something about it.

The Europeans have been backing off of colonialism while the U.S. is expanding it after re-branding the product.

Colonialism implies that the colony building nation has something to gain from the territory being colonized like mineral wealth, a cheap local production base, or at the very least the ability to send it's excess population over to reduce overcrowding. The U.S is gaining none of these possible benefits. The term is inapplicable to both Afghanistan and Iraq as no gain has been garnered (you can't even use that whole blood for oil argument as it all goes through OPEC anyway).

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ChinaGirl:

No, pretending that militant islamists are not working for the Pentagon is the problem.

No, trying to shift the blame to someone other than those that are committing the murders is the problem.

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Mangaman: Even irrational people get frustrated when neighbors get targeted by cowardly foreign predator drones. Just because they irrationally lash out at the wrong people does not mean their actions are totally unfounded. But they can't get to Langley, Virginia to get at the predator drone pilots. And the predator drones are the tip of the iceberg.

You seem to have issues with drones. It's the first thing you talk about anytime an Islamic terrorist kills anyone anywhere in the world. You should find one, lock yourself in a room with it, and refuse to come out until you've sorted out your issues. I'm not your therapist.

Oh, and Superlib

I didn't bother reading your second post.

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Idiotic, really but hey! try to exercise your freedom of expression, by walking in a SM leather suit like and holding a panel claiming that Jesus is gay next to Terry Jones'a church. You won't go really far. Whatever, you have idiots everywhere. Truly sad.

Hey, you've said it, we have idiots everywhere. Wonder why is an irrelevant topic such as gay be brought up here? To provoke? You are barking up the wrong tree, man. Truly sad.

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SuperLib: "In reality you're dealing with brainwashed religious zealots and if there is a chance you agree with them it's just mere coincidence, not some kind of shared understanding."

smithinjapan: Agreed, and the pastor who burned the Quran is no exception (religious zealot). My guess is that you were just talking about Muslims, though.

Yeah, I kind of thought the focus should be on the religious zealots who just killed UN workers, not the religious zealot who burned a book. But I suppose if you want to lump the two together and say, "Man, there are a lot of religious zealots in the world" I can't stop you. Better tactical move on your part, I suppose.

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try to exercise your freedom of expression, by walking in a SM leather suit like and holding a panel claiming that Jesus is gay next to Terry Jones'a church.

That just means you're a jerk, but a jerk that will be protected by the police. Because that's what free society means, you get to be a jerk as long as you don't hurt anybody, simplistic but thats what it boils down to. So go ahead, call the focus of my religion a homosexual, that just means you won't be getting my Christmas card...and it was going to be really awesome this year to.

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If Afghans are so easily duped and used by power hungry mullahs, maybe we had better just leave them alone and let them kill one another. An American Christian did something that insulted them, so in turn they murder 4 Nepalese Hindus and a variety of Europeans. Two weeks later.

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sarge: "Oh, for cryin' out loud, human beings are human beings wherever they are born, and they should all have fundamental human rights which were not permitted under the awful Taliban, who would still be ruling Afghanistan were it not for the United States of America and her allies."

So... human beings are human beings unless they are Taliban? Kind of defeats the purpose of your rant, no?

SuperLib: "Yeah, I kind of thought the focus should be on the religious zealots who just killed UN workers, not the religious zealot who burned a book."

You made a general statement about religious zealots, but we all know you were not being general at all; you were focused on Muslims. That was my point, and yes, as such, it was 'better tactical move on my part', as you say. Go ahead and focus on tactics... I'll try to keep my assertions/judgements on humanity as a whole instead of on my personal biases.

The pastor should not have done what he did -- it was merely for attention, and in the end he may well die from it. The people who have killed should likewise not have done so, regardless of what they claim the reason. Sad people like SuperLib will label one group such and such while dismissing the other entirely.

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squack:

" After all that is said and argued here, the root cause is Terry Jones' burning of the Koran. "

And what was the root case of Terry Jones burning the Koran? Muslim violence, of course. He did not decide on a fine day to burn a koran without a reason.

Now you want the Koran burner to act responsibly, but do you ask the same of the murderous mob who goes on a rampage after listening to their imam? Or are you regarding muslims as sub-human beings who we can not expect to take responsibility for their actions, including murder?

Your call.

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Some others wouldn't and get violent.

And they'd go to jail. If he got a protest permit he might actually have police protection there with him. I've had atheist (and actually a few Baptist) groups outside my church on and off for years depicting all manner of images that would be considered sacrilege within my religion and out of the thousand members of my church and the thousands more in nearby Catholic churches there hasn't been a single violent exchange. So I'd say the liklihood of an outburst would be pretty low. And if there was one then the perpetrators would be taken to court, sued for all they're worth, and condemned by other Christians faster than you can say bad publicity.

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TheQuestion: "That just means you're a jerk, but a jerk that will be protected by the police. Because that's what free society means, you get to be a jerk as long as you don't hurt anybody, simplistic but thats what it boils down to. "

Unless it were an abortion clinic -- then religious zealots would kill the people there and claim it was god's work, and some would think they are heroes. The preacher in question would no doubt praise such action. The double standards are indeed sad.

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WilliB: "And what was the root case of Terry Jones burning the Koran?"

Bigotry. Next?

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The right reverend Jones should go to Kabul and explain why he did what he did. I'm sure all the religious people will understand and come together in spiritual brotherhood.

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Go ahead and focus on tactics... I'll try to keep my assertions/judgements on humanity as a whole instead of on my personal biases.

Well said SmithinJapan. And from Superlib we get:

I didn't bother reading your second post.

There we have it. How old! A conservative trying to "win" the argument instead of get to the truth. Thus we get these unoriginal tactics.

Why do I keep hammering predator drones? Because its an easy to understand basis on why future terror attacks will happen. But of course, if I pointed out why past attacks happen, I might get the tactic of being accused of dwelling on the past or some such nonsense, right? Cause God forbid we face the violation of principles bringing us terror (and some dollars).

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Unless it were an abortion clinic -- then religious zealots would kill the people there and claim it was god's work, and some would think they are heroes.

Refer to my 11:43 post. In the U.S and most of the west those actions would be universally condemned and the perpetrators would go to prison, as they have. No double standard, if anything the fact that so many Christian organizations have condemned abortion clinic bombings (the Catholic Church, the National Right to Life Committee, and the Pro-Life Action League have all made public condemnations) shows that Christians, while not lacking their fair share of zealots, are more likely to call out the rogue elements within their ranks.

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TheQuestion: "No double standard, if anything the fact that so many Christian organizations have condemned abortion clinic bombings (the Catholic Church, the National Right to Life Committee, and the Pro-Life Action League have all made public condemnations) shows that Christians, while not lacking their fair share of zealots, are more likely to call out the rogue elements within their ranks."

Not at all. It shows that some sects of Christianity are more tolerant the others -- same as with Islam. It's hard for those with blinders on to see, but most religious nuts can't see past their own dogma anyhow. Islam is not the problem here, idiocy is. Don't make me point out for the fifth time today that that idiocy is not limited to the Western view of Islam.

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When Soviets had a war at Afganistan, US created and trained/armed Taliban. Radical muslims were a rarity, and after mental training of US instructors they are having jihad.If anyone interested, jihad doesnt mean "holy war".But to understand it, you need to learn the language first."They sow the wind and reap the whirlwind" Hosea 8:7.Good luck NATO in solving radical's problem

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Islam is not the problem here, idiocy is.

It's not even idiocy, which can be largely harmless if the society in which it manifests instills proper structure for them to spout it. The government of Afghanistan and other middle eastern nations throw fuel on the fire and the culture of glorifying those that spill the blood of westerners is the problem. They could be any religion, its that whole region of the planet that's the problem.

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smithinjapan: You made a general statement about religious zealots, but we all know you were not being general at all; you were focused on Muslims. That was my point, and yes, as such, it was 'better tactical move on my part', as you say. Go ahead and focus on tactics... I'll try to keep my assertions/judgements on humanity as a whole instead of on my personal biases.

That's because you're afraid of criticizing these people. You want to placate them so hopefully they'll never harm you. The fact is that all of humanity knows this guy burned a Koran but they didn't react the same way that this specific group did. And believe it or not some people might keep them as the focus and criticize them.

The pastor should not have done what he did -- it was merely for attention, and in the end he may well die from it. The people who have killed should likewise not have done so, regardless of what they claim the reason. Sad people like SuperLib will label one group such and such while dismissing the other entirely.

I'm not WilliB, but you've created a routine with your arguments that now you're just throwing them at anyone who posts. Commenting on the religious zealots from the article who just murdered UN workers isn't "singling out one group" because of some bias. It's the topic of the article. If this group had been anyone BUT Muslim fundamentalists you'd be here criticizing them, so if anyone is here to single a group out it's you, and you're singling them out for protection.

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smithinjapan: "So... human beings are human beings unless they are Taliban?..."

Umm, no. The're human beings too. They're just evil, despicable human beings.

"Kind of defeats the purpose of your rant, no?"

Umm, no.

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The pastor should not have done what he did -- it was merely for attention, and in the end he may well die from it. The people who have killed should likewise not have done so, regardless of what they claim the reason. Sad people like SuperLib will label one group such and such while dismissing the other entirely.

You disagree with the statement he was making. I feel the same way about flag burning, and for that matter, if some nut decided he wanted to burn a stack of bibles. (Thats happened before too.) The thing is, the reaction to it is so over the top and unreasonable, it makes me want to go out and burn a koran myself. People are trying to blame this pastor for whats happened. I don't. I blame the imams that incited the groups to riot and murder.

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I blame militant Islam. This Florida pastor in his childish was has exposed the criminal side of Islam.

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FROM my iphone taliban should SUFfer like me on tiny tiny iphone

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People here cry for cut and dry examples equating Muslim terror with Christian terror. They ignore comparisons with state terror and extremist terror, so SmithinJapan is merely hammering what the blind can understand.

But it is interesting to read all these varied methods of abject denial. Especially I like how we westerners seem to always have a political excuse, and its nothing to do with Christianity or Judiaism, but if its Muslims, they can't have a political reason, it must be relious. And so, its all about the Koran burning and nothing to do with ten years of being "collateral damage" of our militaries, because somehow, Muslims are immune to seeing neighbors get blown up for misidentification or a stray bomb or missle or carelessness or even a soldier having some sport that we never hear about (as if it does not happen).

And I just watched an NCIS where a guy became a terrorist because his family got blown up by a SMART bomb that he said was "not so smart". But that was just a TV show! Nothing similar happens in real life!

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A more recent headline: Taliban suicide bombers kill 42 at Pakistani shrine

My guess is that the some people commenting on this thread won't be commenting on that one... ;)

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(Cpy+pasted. Source Fox News)

Senators Want to Punish Koran Burning

Reid: Probe of Quran Burning Considered

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says congressional lawmakers are discussing taking some action in response to the Koran burnings of a Tennessee pastor that led to killings at the U.N. facility in Afghanistan and sparked protests across the Middle East, Politico reports.

“Ten to 20 people have been killed," Reid said Sunday on CBS’ “Face the Nation.” “We’ll take a look at this of course. As to whether we need hearings or not, I don’t know.”

Sen. Lindsey Graham said Congress might need to explore the need to limit some forms of freedom of speech, in light of Tennessee pastor Terry Jones’ Quran burning, and how such actions result in enabling U.S. enemies.

"I wish we could find a way to hold people accountable. Free speech is a great idea, but we're in a war," Graham told CBS' Bob Schieffer on “Face the Nation” Sunday.

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YouTube search Terry Jones interview with 'MidweekPolitics' on the Koran burning, shedding some lights on the Fl. pastor's insistence that it was all part of 'free speech'.

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"And so, its all about the Koran burning and nothing to do with ten years of being "collateral damage" of our militaries, because somehow, Muslims are immune to seeing neighbors get blown up for misidentification or a stray bomb or missle or carelessness or even a soldier having some sport that we never hear about (as if it does not happen)."

I guess Mangaman is saying humanitarian intervention by the US in places like Muzlim Somalia,Muzlim Afghanistan,Muzlim Kosovo and of course LIBYA counts for nothing with these people; and if an English version of the Quran gets torched in a publicity stunt by the pastor of an obscure church (congregation:less than a hundred) in the rural SE of the US well all bets are off and he is happy to bend over to indulge these illiterate Muzlims' in their blood lust and murder of innocent UN employees in country to help the Afghans against the depredations of the Taliban.

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What happens if you delete a digital copy of the Koran? Is that also blasphemy?

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"What happens if you delete a digital copy of the Koran? Is that also blasphemy?"

In the world of extremist Muzlims (and not a few non-Muzlims on the left -see "Mangaman" above) if you so much as think about the Quran in less than reverential terms you cause them to fly into murderous rage.

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the Quran

or as they cal it on CNN, "the Holy Quran".

Hmmm, I never heard CNN refer to the christian book as the "Holy Bible", just the "bible". Will someone stop this PC nonsense?!?!

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SuperLib - What you're doing is a vain attempt to apply logic to the actions of irrational people. Perhaps you feel that if you're able to do that then with a slight modification in your own behavior you can control these people to some extent. In reality you're dealing with brainwashed religious zealots and if there is a chance you agree with them it's just mere coincidence, not some kind of shared understanding. We've seen death caused by the publishing of the image of Mohammad, we've seen political leaders killed in Europe for their stance regarding Islam, we've seen movies and TV erase instances of Mohammad or the destruction of Muslim symbols....all of out fear. So you're right, it's not just about the burning of a book, it's about religious fundamentalism.

I agree. The "alledged" Rev, Terry Jones burned a book which makes him an idiot. Jones burned a Quran which makes him a bigger idiot. Religious fundamentalist zealots killed people in retaliation. That makes them MURDERERS.

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People who stir up violence including the Taliban are not truly religous. I think it would be sensible to stop the illegal drugs trade, as I believe that is what largegly funds and motivates them.

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Let me see if l have this right. If a person burns a Quran the Muslim world gets outraged, and Muslims see it as an excuse to kill people.

Yet if a Muslim commits a massacre of another religion do we see the Christians go around killing Muslims (and before someone mentions something that happened 100 years ago, l am talking about now). Do we see Muslims being beheaded when reports of a Muslim killing his wife for reading a bible emerge. No we dont. Yet when someone burns a Quran or draws a cartoon of Mohamod all hell breaks loose, people die and things turn nasty. At the end of the day the Quran is a book nothing more nothing less, just as the bible is a book and to commit murder because someone burns it well l guess then those killing deserve to be removed from society because if we cannot freely express ourselves what sort of world are we creating. By saying that l am not condoning the burning of the book but again ITS A BOOK. Nothing more than paper and ink, would we see mass murder every time someone burns a bible? Is this justification to kill someone.

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This is not about a certain religion being fundamentally "broken". Note that Turkey is an astonishing 97% Muslim, and yet is arguably one of the safest, most advanced nations in the world with an extremely high average life expectancy and literacy rate.

Rather, it is a problem of chronic destitution, which breeds anger and illiteracy and restricts avenues for acquiring information.

All that aside, new reports seem to be pointing to strong evidence that a relatively peaceful protest was infiltrated by agents of a terrorist cell that incited violence. There is also evidence that the UN representatives who were killed were not just swept up in the violence, but physically hunted by these terrorists. So, it's a big ignorant to lump all angry Afghans into the "murderer" category.

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That 'pastor' is a selfish idiot.

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