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Britain expels 23 Russian diplomats over spy poisoning

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By JILL LAWLESS and DANICA KIRKA

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Good for the U.K. How long until one of Trump's idiot supporters is here telling us that we need to give Russia yet another pass so we can have better relations with them? Conservatives are truly stupid. As in dumb as a rock stupid.

5 ( +19 / -14 )

A very lame response that will not deter Putin in any way from doing again. May's appeasement reminds me of Chamberlain whilst dealing with Hitler back in the day.

-14 ( +6 / -20 )

How long until one of Trump's idiot supporters is here telling us that we need to give Russia yet another pass so we can have better relations with them?

They loooooooove to appease Russia.

A very lame response that will not deter Putin in any way from doing again. May's appeasement reminds me of Chamberlain whilst dealing with Hitler back in the day.

Was 'appeasement' a typo? Because you've used it entirely wrong there. Let me give you a hand:

Appease:

to yield or concede to the belligerent demands of (a nation, group, person, etc.) in a conciliatory effort, sometimes at the expense of justice or other principles.

Link: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/appease

1 ( +12 / -11 )

They loooooooove to appease Russia

Just like they love to justify Trump's unjustifiable actions.

9 ( +17 / -8 )

They loooooooove to appease Russia.

Well, they resist a McCarthy Era hysteria blaming Russia for the results of the US election and a dumbed-down populace, they aren't eager to risk a world war to unseat a president they don't like, they are against supporting ISIS and similar groups just to minimize Russian influence in a third country. If that's appeasement, then I am all for it.

We know Putin is a thug, but we don't blame him for all the things we don't like in the world, like some omnipotent bogeyman. We don't fabricate wildly imaginative conspiracy theories that make the world a much more dangerous place.

But really, this topic has little to do with Trump to any balanced observer. It's simply about what response would be appropriate.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Agree with all of the above comments. This is an ok start but definitely not enough. They need to seize russian assets like their VERY pricey London real estate assets that could really send a message to Putin's regime. Also limit the number of diplomats and diplomatic contact between the 2 countries and find more sanctions to put on Russia.

Political assassinations of citizens in their own country by a foreign government can be seen as an act of war and is CERTAINLY an act of terrorism.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

Hey I get it - there are lots of reasons to appease Russia. But let's not pretend it's not appeasement.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

One person wrote it was a "lame response". Come on, do really think that is all the U.K. will do? Believe me, they're working on other things, things they cannot talk about. I'm sure Putin is telling everybody in his government to be extra vigilant regarding any potential threats coming out of the U.K. There is also Syria too... the U.K. might apply more unwanted pressure there. No... this is not over with just the expulsion of 23 diplomats.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I think we need to accept that Russia has decided to go to war with the world. They are the enemy. We need to treat them as such.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

Speaking about appeasement, how about Jeremy Corbyn? If you didn’t know, he is British and the leader of that country’s Labour Party (main opposition to the Conservative party) and he just repeated himself once again by saying the other day in Parliament, that Britain should not antagonize Putin further, but rather follow a policy of appeasement. By the way, I am not a Trump supporter, it’s just tiresome to day in day out read about unsubstantiated drivel put out here.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

At least she has the guts to stand up to Russia, unlike our weak, seemingly blackmailed pretend President Trump.

Sounds like Putin has no tape or bank records on May.

Everyone notice there hasn't been a word from Trump on this?

The "cold war" never ended for Russia. Their methods of using assassination to control the media, political challengers, and the masses are exactly as they always were. True freedom doesn't exist there.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Russia is mostly a pariah state on the world stage today.

8 ( +17 / -9 )

@comment We know Putin is a thug, but we don't blame him for all the things we don't like in the world, like some omnipotent bogeyman

I agree that Putin’s a thug, but who are ‘we’?

And who’s blaming Putin ‘for all the things we don’t like in this world’. I’ve read people question Trump’s family ties to Putin and his oligarchs, I’ve read people say Putin’s trying to expand his empire, I’ve read people say he ordered election meddling in the US and other ‘western’ nations, I’ve read people say he ordered hits on his opposition, but never read that someone’s blamed him for all things ‘we’ don’t like. Exaggerations and distortions weaken your points.

I keep reading some pro-Trump posters blaming world problems on ‘central bankers’, ‘the MSM’, ‘globalists’, among others. They seem to have identified an ‘omnipotent bogeyman’. 

Are you confusing Trump supporters with ‘we’ (whoever that might be).

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Everyone notice there hasn't been a word from Trump on this?

Strange, various news sites reported Trump saying  that "he has vowed to "condemn Russia or whoever" was behind the Salisbury nerve agent attack".

5 ( +6 / -1 )

This should ensure that the English football fans get an extra-special kicking in June's World Cup.

Not that I'm saying that the PM's actions aren't totally justified

2 ( +4 / -2 )

These actions are far too weak. Russia essentially attempted to assassniate 2 British citizens on British soil, while also injuring dozens more, with a severe chemical weapon. That’s terrorism and act of war.

Expel every single Russian government employee as a start, ban all their state owned companies from operating in the UK, bend foreign policy to be completely anti-Russian, and confiscate all Russian government property. That would send the morons in Russia back about 2 decades.

They are groveling in poverty in Russia, the key is to make this suffering far more acute

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

The British PM has done the right thing. A minimum response to which the Putin regime will react in the usual sarcastic way.

The game continues.

All hail Tsar Vladimir.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Ok, they expelled some Russians, do they think Putin cares? If they want to get a Putin, him with as much of hard hitting punishing sanctions as you can, then you get the mans attention for sure. Other than that, you get a yawn from the man.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

This should ensure that the English football fans get an extra-special kicking in June's World Cup.

Actually, it would seem that the current trend is that the World Cup will either be boycotted by at least Britain and other countries or be moved right out of Russia. And rightly so. Russia can't be counted on as a responsible member of the world community any longer. Even Trump can't pretend at this point.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Forzaducati. Where is your evidence of Corbyn saying this (Not condemning Russia)

Was it in the Daily Mail, or another story rag perhaps?

Jeremy Corbyn has this to say on the matter...

“The attack in Salisbury was an appalling act of violence, which we condemn in the strongest terms. 

Nerve agents are abominable if used in war. It is utterly reckless for them to be used in a civilian environment.

The Prime Minister said on Monday and again today that Russia was either directly responsible or it was culpable because it lost control of this nerve agent.

The Russian authorities must be held to account on the basis of the evidence and our response must be both decisive and proportionate.

The attack in Britain has concerned our allies in the European Union, Nato and in the United Nations, and their words of solidarity have strengthened our position diplomatically.

We have a duty to speak out against the abuse of human rights by Putin’s Government and its support, both at home and abroad, and pay tribute to the many campaigners in Russia for human rights. And we must do more to address the dangers posed by the Russian state’s relationship with unofficial mafia-like groups and corrupt oligarchs. 

We need to expose the flows of ill-gotten cash between the Russian state and billionaires who became stupendously rich by looting their country and subsequently using London to protect their wealth. We welcome the Prime Minister’s clear commitment today to support the Magnitsky amendments to sanction human rights abusers, as we have long been calling for.

Britain should build an international consensus to strengthen the chemical weapons convention, and ensure that such a horrific attack never happens again.”

4 ( +6 / -2 )

and he just repeated himself once again by saying the other day in Parliament, that Britain should not antagonize Putin further, but rather follow a policy of appeasement.

This is false.

It was Corbyn's spokesperson who said

*Labour did not oppose any of the measures outlined by Mrs May - including the expulsions - but urged caution over reaching a definitive judgement on who was behind the attack.*

Which is a bit different, I think you'll agree

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43405680

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Speaking about appeasement, how about Jeremy Corbyn? If you didn’t know, he is British and the leader of that country’s Labour Party (main opposition to the Conservative party) and he just repeated himself once again by saying the other day in Parliament, that Britain should not antagonize Putin further, but rather follow a policy of appeasement.

Corbyn knows the U.K has under invested in its nuclear deterrent for decades, a policy he supports, and he also knows Russia has a stated policy, unlike anyone else on Earth, of use low yield strategic nuclear strikes at the start of a potential conventional conflict to de-escalate that conflict. Many people fear there is no clear line in the sound in terms of Russia's use of nuclear weapons at this point. He recent speeches make it clear he wants the West to think exactly that.

I'm not even sure China has the policy of outright nuclear aggression that Russia has right now.

I don't want to come off as some lunatic warmonger but the fact is Putin's recent announcements demonstrate an increased willingness to use nuclear weapons to solve geo-political disputes and may be used to rebuild the USSR. We all know thats the goal. If he was attempting to do that solely through cultural, economic and diplomatic means I don't see why the West should resort to military means to prevent it given that the E.U holds most of the aces apart from perhaps culture. But its not clear Putin would shelve aggressive military action in his quest. Certainly Ukraine makes you worry.

Hate to say it, but its time for the West to pull its collective finger out and start working together on hypersonic nuclear warheads and A.I. We should not leave it to the U.S alone. There is no luxury of time. France, U.K, even non nuclear states like Germany and Australia have to step up. We need this technology yesterday. Need to treat this like it could spiral out of control towards WW3 and do everything in our power collectively at a diplomatic and economic and cultural level to prevent that from happening.

Its a two pronged strategy and both require total commitment imo.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Britain should stop harbouring foreign crooks for a start. I know our intelligence services want the information but it's a dangerous game to play.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

he just repeated himself once again by saying the other day in Parliament, that Britain should not antagonize Putin further, but rather follow a policy of appeasement.

Fake news.

By the way, I am not a Trump supporter, it’s just tiresome to day in day out read about unsubstantiated drivel put out here.

I’m tired of unsubstantiated drivel too.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Let me guess, Christopher Steele wrote a memo that "proves" this too.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

@bas4 If they want to get a Putin, him with as much of hard hitting punishing sanctions as you can, then you get the mans attention for sure. 

Hear, hear! It's good to see you finally disagree with Trump who, according to Fox 'news' at least, wants to 'hold off' on further Russian sanctions. This video is from the end of January, so who knows how many times he's flip-flopped since and for how many more months he'll continue to flip-flop.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5722526323001/?#sp=show-clips

6 ( +7 / -1 )

bass4funk

Ok, they expelled some Russians, do they think Putin cares? If they want to get a Putin, him with a

you have previously stated you only care about what happens in America and couldn't careless what happens in Britain. Why the sudden interest?

I listened to most of the speeches in the parliament and the chemical agent terrorist attack was condemned by all sides and parties and all called for actions against Russia. The sanctions are already hurting and Putin who hates NATO takes these sanctions personally too. One of the worse events for him is betrayal as in the case of this ex spy and Putin a former KGB member can never forgive betrayal no matter how long revenge takes.

Trump has also stated that he believes the Russians did it and is supporting PM May.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Trump has also stated that he believes the Russians did it and is supporting PM May.

yes, he has. Wouldnt know this from all the anti-Trump nonsense posted above. This has nothing to do with Trump at all, btw.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

The typical failure of the MSM to get to any kind of truth.

Come on, then. Give us a source to enlighten us.

Do you think it was the same nefarious people behind the murder of Jo Cox?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@blacklab Let me guess, Christopher Steele wrote a memo that "proves" this too.

I don't know what 'this' you're referring to, but thanks for keeping Steele's findings in the conversation.

Most Americans I know don't want the US to be further affected and infected by foreign nations, especially one as vicious as Putin-led Russia.

But I know Trump supporters have said they want the US systems smashed. But do you really want to have Putin be involved in the smashing?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

May said "there is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian state was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter."

Oh, I can think several more believable conclusions.

And why haven't they handed over a sample to Russia?

The allegedly used poison was developed by the USSR. Several other countries, some of which are against Russia, might have access to this poison. Plus, I suspect others have since been able to synthesize some of this poison.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

FizzBit

Just parroting May's BS with no evidence

so where is your evidence that it's all BS. A nerve agent terrorist attack happened involving more than 30 victims. Are you saying the whole thing was filmed in a Hollywood car park.

Blacklabel

This has nothing to do with Trump at all BTW

you are mistaken on that. Britain is an ally of America which has been attacked by a deadly nerve agent with a State sponsored terrorism Russia and the main purpose of NATO is to keep Russia under control.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Give us a source to enlighten us

I don't know. I'll wait for the evidence/investigation.

The fact that May and the MSM have already came to a conclusion and pointing fingers and expelling Russians with no formal investigation is a YUUGE red flag. Right?

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

I think we need to accept that Russia has decided to go to war with the world. They are the enemy. We need to treat them as such.

This simple but concise post pretty much sums it up. Best post I've heard on Russia in a long time, and I agree 100%. Well done strangerland!

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Russia is a plague. Constant meddling and assassinations within Russia and around the world. Any self respecting country should cut them out diplomatically and financially.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

I find interesting how they chose to include a picture of Lavrov smiling. Ooooh those evil Russians.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

FizzBit

The fact that May and the MSM have already came to a conclusion and pointing fingers and expelling Russians with no formal investigation.

you seem a little lost on all of this. You don't have to watch or read the MSM if you are doubting the reports. You can watch the parliament live tv and listen to the speeches and reports from the prime minister and others, which I did.

The moment it became known it was a nerve agent attack the security agencies went into full swing involving tens of thousands of officers across the entire country. COBRA was immediately called at No10.

The investigation started very soon after and specialist marines with chemical and nerve agent experience drafted to the site of the attack. The investigation involves thousands of officers.

PM May decided from what quickly became known about the attack there was more than enough evidence to state that Russia was behind the attack. PM May is not one to just jump on a bandwagon and probably even has regret that the British Russian relationship has sank to the current level.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

@rawbeer I find interesting how they chose to include a picture of Lavrov smiling. Ooooh those evil Russians.

Not all are. And you have provided the world with some of its very best artists, musicians, composers, dancers, writers and scientists. Perhaps one positive of a perpetual police state?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Like Putin cares.  London is crawling with Russians.  He doesn't need them to be at the embassy to keep his espionage network going.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Zichi

"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact”.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Only last week Putin issued threats to NATO/Europe/America when he stated or boasted about Russia's new range of super nuclear weapons which he also claimed the west have nothing in their arsenals to stop them. Is that the sign of a man of peace?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Nord Stream 2 pipeline canceled in 3..2..1..

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

FizzBit

Nord Stream 2 pipeline canceled

There are no Russian pipelines into Britain. The Nord Stream 2 connects Finland/Russian border to Germany. The two main countries connected to Russian gas are Germany and Italy.

The current sanctions and expelling of the 23 diplomats isn't some final ending saga. British companies like Shell have big money in Russia and many Russians have big money in the UK like the owner of the Chelsea football club.

Any Russian with shady money in London willingly the coming weeks start emptying there bank accounts out of fears their assets will be frozen.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

For the whole, was it the Russians who carried it out/ or is it the British setting them up, debate:-

Russia - assasinates any political threat to Putin, invaded Ukraine to capture Crimea, drops bombs on children in Syria, proven to have assassinated Litvenenko in London, continues to fly its airforce into foreign airspace, has grown its submarine fleet in the Arctic, produced a nuclear threat video simulating an attack on the US, sponsored paramilitaries to attack the English at the Euros.

UK - held a Brexit vote before checking the legalities and economic impact, gave most of its empire back out of guilt, drops bombs on muslim children, flies British Airways around the world with poor service, produced a video threatening to win the Football World Cup, approved West Ham United to play at the landmark Olympic Stadium.

Only one of these is competent enough to have successfully carried out the attack..

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Western stupidity in its finest. The whole poisoning story is a direct insult to any clear minded observer.

 So, what we've got? Putin decided to risk a massive confrontation with the West by poisoning a useless traitor he could have killed fifteen yeas ago, to kill on the territory of a country with a very well-developed security apparatus, to kill by a nerve agent that would easily and unmistakably point to him? Seriously? Sure the usual MSM-believers are happy to spread it, but would normal people with a little critical thinking believe in that crap? It reminds me the situation in Syria - as soon as Assad begins to make progress he immediately and mysteriously "uses chemical weapons" without any particular reason. Story of the same very primitive making. May be they should hire a Hollywood script writer to have something more compelling?

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

"Tommy JonesToday  07:16 am JST

They loooooooove to appease Russia

Just like they love to justify Trump's unjustifiable actions."

Can you, and others, please stop bringing Trump into every damned thread here. I, and I'm sure most others, am sick and tired of reading and hearing about Trump and am certainly sick of reading the constant stream of endorsements from his resident fan club.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

There you are!

So, who do you think did it then? Once you have eliminated the only realistic candidate.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

poisoning a useless traitor he could have killed fifteen yeas ago

Nope. They deliberately spared him because they knew full well they could barter him for their own - which they surely did including Anna Chapman.

to kill on the territory of a country with a very well-developed security apparatus, to kill by a nerve agent that would easily and unmistakably point to him

Thats the point my friend. Why kill him in secret. They very much wanted to both kill him, and produce a threat to the west to highlight their abilities, and warn any other Russian thinking about turning.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Many have asked why Putin would kill this ex spy Sergei Skripal when he had already inflicted his damage on Russia. Putin stated on live TV the one thing he hates more than anything (except probably NATO) and what he could never forgive for is "Betrayal" which I guess stems from his days as a KGB officer. Hates betrayal and has a revengeful nature against his opposition. It also send a message to other Russians thinking of being defectors.

Sergei Skripal was given a new ID relocated to a secret address in a small sleepy English city and owned an unregistered BMW car.

The agents of the attack were able to track him down, discover his movements, discover his car and its location and apply the nerve agent to its door handles. They would have also had to manufacture or obtain the Novichok and then smuggle it into Britain.

Would need the resources of a State to achieve all of that.

Lawmaker Vladimir Gutenev, a member of Russia's state commission for chemical disarmament, said Russia had scrapped its stockpile of Novichok.

In the past Russia had never declared that it had manufactured Novichok and wasn't listed with its other chemical agents. Now it wants us to believe they destroyed it.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Perfidious Albion are quite capable of doing this themselves. Ask yourself cui bono, and it is not at all obvious that Russia did it. I wouldn't trust ANY governments or their "security services".

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

For Putin, Sergei Skripal  was a traitor and hated him but Anna Chapman was a Russian hero, a woman of his own heart now enjoying the good life in Moscow while Sergei Skripal is lying dying in a British hospital.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Story of the same very primitive making.

Laughable naivety. I suppose if you actually ignore the evidence, the motivation, the resources, the fact that they've done this before, then you can always fall back on a conspiracy story which you haven't even proposed and offer no evidence for.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

They need to seize russian assets like their VERY pricey London real estate assets that could really send a message to Putin's regime.

The UK has been awash with dodgy money for decades from Russia and elsewhere and the UK government has done little about it. They also have a habit of keeping one eye closed on the rich avoiding the taxman.

I can imagine May declaring what you said, a good idea, while winking at the oligarchs and gangsters.

Anyone fancy buying a football team?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@TigersTokyoDome

Russia - assasinates any political threat to Putin, invaded Ukraine to capture Crimea, drops bombs on children in Syria, proven to have assassinated Litvenenko in London, continues to fly its airforce into foreign airspace, has grown its submarine fleet in the Arctic

I have a better line. The West - destroyed the post-Cold war peace prospects by spreading NATO to the east, destroyed several countries during the last twenty years (Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya), killing hundreds of thousands of people in the process, staging coups d'état in other counties (Ukraine), starving out peoples of other countries with sanctions, torturing people in secret prisons (black sites), holding people in prison for decades without any warrant (Guantanomo), threatening the world with military might from hundreds of military bases around the globe, etc. 

 

 They deliberately spared him because they knew full well they could barter him for their own - which they surely did including Anna Chapman

They bartered him in 2010. Why wait for eight years to kill him now?

produce a threat to the west to highlight their abilities

To do it stealthily, without proof - that would be a demonstration of abilities. To do it so obviously is not a clever way.

@Strangerland

Screw Russia. Sleaziest piece of sh%t country on the planet

The West is much, much worse - see what I wrote to TigersTD.

@ClippetyClop

Laughable naivety. I suppose if you actually ignore the evidence, the motivation, the resources

What evidence? Nerve agent developed back in 80s? Gunpowder was first developed by the Chinese, does it mean that all people killed by firearms are killed by the Chinese? Terrorebels in Syria are very good at producing nerve agents, they've done it before to demonstrate "crimes of the regime* and to fan the anti-Assad hysteria.  

  I've said it once, I repeat it again -it is not in  Russia's interest to start a major crisis in relations with UK and the West as a whole by killing a useless ex-spy. It can be a false flag operation by MI-5 - to pile additional pressure on Moscow since all Western sanctions have failed completely. For that why not to use the expendable Skripal? That explains the fact that while Skripal should have been under protective surveillance he was poisoned.

 Or a more plausible explanation: a third party, very interested in a good fight between the West and Russia. Syrian terrorebels are number one suspect - they have funds, they have expertise and they have motivation, though they thrive in the West for them Westerners are just infidels, and they would be delighted by a major conflict between Russia and the West.

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

I don't know what happened, but Asakaze makes some good points that people seem eager to overlook. There are all kinds of forces at work in this world, with all kinds of motives, and the media has often been willing to help whip up public anger. This is not new, most countries (including the USA) have practiced public manipulation for decades, if not centuries, by using secret agencies and a cooperative media.

When you have otherwise normal people demonizing another country or people in its entirety, it is almost always the result of manipulation and propaganda. People don't naturally hate broad swaths of humanity - they have to be encouraged.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

@Asakaze: Agree 100% with you. What a sick joke that we are all suddenly supposed to trust Western governments, media and security services after all the crimes, suffering and deaths they have been responsible for is an insult to the intelligence. They (especially the US/UK) are known for interfering, meddling, undermining and scheming since forever. Remember Iran, Central and South America, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, South East Asia? Nobody should take any moral lecturing from these stinking hypocrites.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

Since Litivineko's demise,Mr.Putin has learnt the UK is a failed nation and after Briexit has confirmed his belief. Traitors will be tracked and hunted. Like Stalin hunted Troksky in mexico , it is a golden rule this is their cultures and traditions! Students of the USSR: China North Korea does the same as well. How can Putin resisting those calls to liquidation the traitors? Russia is still a big brother and Putin cannot refrain from doing this otherwise he is also be seen as a traitor of Russia!

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Well, it's a step in the right direction, but only a very tiny step. All Russian ambassadors/diplomats should be kicked out, all assets frozen, all imports to Russia blocked, all exports from Russia banned, and then impose more economic sanctions upon Russia than have been placed on North Korea. Impose enough sanctions so that Russia doesn't earn a penny from us. Then we'll be getting somewhere. Of course, we'll have to step up cyber defence and physical military defence, because no doubt they'll try to cripple us with cyber attacks and flex their military muscle.

I'll have to look again, but I'm sure I read within 24 hours of this nerve agent attack that Putin had said something along the lines of justice being brought down on Skripal, which is about as close as an admission of guilt as we could ever expect from Putin. It doesn't end there either, another Russian double agent was found dead in his British home, having been strangled. I think it's quite clear that Russia is eliminating "traitors", though why exactly is unclear. It's not like they were still providing us with Russian secrets, so it seems strange to suddenly go from not bothering with them to killing/attempting to kill them. Could it be that Putin is afraid of something they know? Russia claims innocence, suggesting that an ex-Soviet nation might be responsible (while providing no claims, no evidence, no reason whatsoever to trust or believe them), but whose to say that, even if this were true, that said nation wasn't acting as Russia's proxy, on their orders? If Russia was really innocent in all this, then surely they'd help in the investigations and assist us in bringing those responsible to justice. The way they're behaving at the moment will only risk a new Cold War.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

If it was a Russian state sponsored act, then this is exactly what Putin and his cohorts wanted for the upcoming ‘election’, “Look, we’re under attack from the West. Vote for me.” Although it’s a forgotten conclusion that he’ll win, he wants to see a big turn out, for legitimacy. This “Attack on the Motherland” will help him get that.

Jeremy Corbyn’s approach of being more cautious was echoed in other capitals, and it wasn’t caution against the nerve agent, "An abhorrence” but of jumping in before there is irrefutable evidence linking it to Moscow. There are many actors plying their tradecraft in The Circus, always best to KNOW for certain who it was that played their hand.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Forgotten = forgone. (Doh!)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It is Britian's uncompetences of security,it is May's embarassment! So why blame Russia?

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

^^^^^^ Errrr because they believe they have evidence that points to Russia being responsible?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

If your bicycle was stolen when you left it chained to a railing would you not try to find the person who stole it because it's you're embarrassed? Seriously...........

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@Kniknak elephant's point is that stealing bicycles is what Putin do, so if he steals your bike from your yard it's your fault because that's what Putin do.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I guess the deep state told Trump to blame the Russians or else.

I just shows how weak the Orange One is. Caught between the deep state and Kompromat.

At least the Russians aren't getting away with daylight murder. Again.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The Russian influence is undeniable but, of course, hard to pinpoint specific individuals

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/02/20/world/politics-diplomacy-world/former-workers-russian-troll-factory-say-mueller-indictment-well-founded/#.Wqo4CJe-lPY

Be it troll factories, spies and assasinations or supporting regimes like Assad's, there's little doubt that the Kremlin is destabilising Europe and the UK. Chip, chip, chipping away...

10 ( +11 / -1 )

And Trump DID blame and condemn Russia. Which was your only anti-trump attack you had. Total shut down.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/378494-white-house-sides-with-uk-blames-russia-for-abhorrent-attack-on-ex

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

And Trump DID blame and condemn Russia. Which was your only anti-trump attack you had. Total shut down.

The "whitehouse" did, whatever that means. But, it is more than odd how Donny spares his twitter rage for widows of marines, former Prisoners of Wars, and muslim mayors of London, but oddly silent on the Russian terror attack. Just a coincidence, I'm sure. ;)

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Be it troll factories, spies and assasinations or supporting regimes like Assad's, there's little doubt that the Kremlin is destabilising Europe and the UK. 

How does supporting Assad in Syria (over the much more violent and global ISIS) destabilize Europe? Please enlighten me. Europe now needs an ISIS-ruled Middle East to be stable?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Blacklabel

saying Trump condemned and blame Russia isn't quite correct what the WH said from your linked media was

The White House said in a statement Wednesday that it agreed with the British government’s assessment that Russia was responsible for the poisoning of a former Russian spy and his daughter in the United Kingdom.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

British Law has something called Heresay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay_in_English_law

I guess this explains why the British Government can make such accusations against Russia without substantiating it with Solid Evidence.

Cobyrn was right to question this lack of evidence - showing that he can react appropriately under pressure, not when it suits Politically to jump onto the bandwagon. (Note: I'm not a Supporter of any UK party).

One wonders, whether there are other parties in play in this event, in order to cause a distraction to other events going on.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

An example, the Germans invented Chlorine Gas...

http://chemicalweapons.cenmag.org/when-chemicals-became-weapons-of-war/

Yet, it's been used elsewhere and even recently in Syria - yet no one is accusing the Germans of providing the weapons to the Syrian government.

Now along comes "Novichuk"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent

apparently developed in the USSR during the 70's/80's...

So it's guilt by association ?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

And now Trump issued sanctions against 19 Russians for election meddling.

CNN and liberals: But but it’s late. But but trump didn’t do it the treasury department did. But but it’s not the whole country.

Never satisfied. Trump said the attack was abhorrent, still not enough cause the “white house” said it.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Do you think Trump is tough on Putin?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Do you think Trump is tough on Putin?

No. But I don't see why he should be.

Who do you think Super is worse/more dangerous, Xi or Putin?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Putin is much, much, much worse than China.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The leaders of Britain, America, France and Germany issued a joint statement condemning Russia for the nerve agent attack.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Not too long ago, the US & the UK launched another invasion into Iraq under the auspices of WMD removal.... none were ever found.

If you read the following, you may get an idea why it's not so clear that Russia was directly involved:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/15/uks-claims-questioned-doubts-emerge-about-source-of-salisburys-novichok

Indeed it appears that Cobyrn although supporting the government's approach to ask for the removal of some dubious diplomats, he also suggests that we should not ignore the possibility of other actors in play - namely the Russian Mafia:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/15/salisbury-attack-conflict-britain-cold-war

Again, for the UK to lash out with a guilty until proven innocent stance is perhaps a bit dangerous. What happens if, for example we find out that Mr Skripal had indeed some dodgy dealings with the Russian Mafia, or another organisation, and was thus targeted in what clearly looks like a botched job....

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Again, for the UK to lash out with a guilty until proven innocent stance is perhaps a bit dangerous.

I too was surprised that May decided on Russian guilt so quickly. British governments are usually quite cautious, so it didn't fit. Apparently the also cautious French were convinced when May revealed the evidence tying Russia to the crime. I assume that evidence has also been shown to the Americans, Germans etc. Obviously, we won't get to see that evidence anytime soon, so we can only assume that she has a "good hand" to play. I hope for her sake she does, it would be calamitous if it turns out not to be Kremlin linked.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Here's a video of George Galloway bringing up some good points about the poisoning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUJHZxgHm64

The leaders of Britain, America, France and Germany issued a joint statement condemning Russia for the nerve agent attack.

It's time for the citizens of those countries to have a closer look at who is leading them.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

How does supporting Assad in Syria (over the much more violent and global ISIS) destabilize Europe? Please enlighten me. Europe now needs an ISIS-ruled Middle East to be stable?

When people start pretending the only options in Syria are Assad or ISIS, we start to smell vodka.

Please consider yourself enlightened.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The israel government kidnapped one of their traitor: Scientist Vanunu in late 1980s. from europe back to israel. All countries do the same thing to traitors! And Obama could have issued death warrent to kill Edward Snowden. You guys will learn this on declassified documents 70 years later! Putin has no faults, it was Britian's security failure and it is definately May's embarasment to coverup her desperate situation under Corbyn's challenge her seat in no.10 Downling street!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Russia is waging a type of warfare against the rest of the world. What they did in Britain, and a number of the other things they have done there, is especially egregious. Britain would be justified in throwing out just about every Russian in the country.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Britain would be justified in throwing out just about every Russian in the country.

Which would be a shame, given that (oligarchs and criminal elements aside) there's plenty of decent Russians living and working in the UK, 1glenn.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The israel government kidnapped one of their traitor: Scientist Vanunu in late 1980s. from europe back to israel. All countries do the same thing to traitors! And Obama could have issued death warrent to kill Edward Snowden. You guys will learn this on declassified documents 70 years later! Putin has no faults, it was Britian's security failure and it is definately May's embarasment to coverup her desperate situation under Corbyn's challenge her seat in no.10 Downling street!

Mordechai was a hero, who was concerned over the Israeli govts nuclear ambitions. He began to see past the right wing propaganda and did what he believed to be the right thing.

As for an attack on British soil being the UK's fault and not Putin? Well, I'm sorry but to me that sounds like victim blaming.

How do you stop a man like Putin, with all his resources and KGB experience?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

If the British Government is so damned sure it's the Russian's then why can't they provide something to reassure the rest of the population that this is correct before heading into a potential Nuclear conflict... in which case the last question will quite literally be "Why ?"....

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@zichi - I have to disagree with you here.. simply because 2 unaffected countries say "aye" to the UK's accusations... doesn't mean that they are asserting solid proof that Russia did it... I'd start questioning why they are all saying so without solid evidence being put to us.

Indeed if I were Russian, I would be so deeply ashamed of the absolute cock-up of this attempted hit job, that I would probably vote against Putin in his election.... just to show my disappointment in how sloppy his organisation has become.

Maybe it's all a shame. Maybe, there are some who wish to return to the old Cold War times... certainly Defense industries would benefit globally... which would be good for May & Trump... not sure how Marcon would benefit, apart from maybe his Submarine sales....

The more I look at this, the more I think, there's more to the story that we're being drip-fed.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

 Come on, do really think that is all the U.K. will do? 

YES. And it's already too much. Had I been May, I would not have moved a finger, not said a word about it. Treat it as common crime. Just let the media shame Putin. Also, did UK need giving shelter to retired spies of any country but theirs ? I mean either that was a stupid immigration service mistake, or that was a guy rewarded for cooperation with UK service and they failed to provide him and his family with effective covers.

Apparently the also cautious French were convinced

Cautious ? It's possible they already know the dude was killed by the mafia over a debt (simple hypothesis) and they chose to ignore it. Sometimes, they consider it's diplomatically better to say 'yes' to UK requests. A while ago, to please UK, they jailed Irish students (found smoking pot in a squat in Paris) as being IRA mastermind jihadists hiding abroad (later they happened to be just backpackers). They'd do it again and again.

Europe now needs an ISIS-ruled Middle East to be stable?

Europe (and the world) ALREADY HAS an ISiS ruling ME. The world does not need maintaining Assad in addition. It's just like maintening the Kim klan ruling in North Korea to prevent mass slaughters and dictature in South Korea (as you know, that happened anyway and lasted as long the Soviet caliphate). Putin is not exactly helping in Syria, it's not his goal. He's there to show he is expanding his area of influence and to demonstrate weapons.

Maybe, there are some who wish to return to the old Cold War times... 

Putin does. The guy has no talent to improve his country's domestic issues, economy, society and he needs that to stay in power. He convinced his lower classes that they'd be better off if Russia regained an empire, or at least a crown of servant country... as the USSR did. That's why I think the world has to react over his global strategy and not lose time nitpicking about a former spy.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Also, did UK need giving shelter to retired spies of any country but theirs ? I mean either that was a stupid immigration service mistake, or that was a guy rewarded for cooperation with UK service and they failed to provide him and his family with effective covers.

The latter - he spied on Russia for the British. In other words, he was a traitor. He was given residency in Britain after a spy swap. He was actually living under his own name - foolish - the KGB will not forgive traitors.

For someone who is raising such doubts about this murder, you seem ignorant of some very basic facts.

Europe (and the world) ALREADY HAS an ISiS ruling ME. 

Surely "HAD" would be more appropriate - ISIS has collapsed.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The UK, US, etc lost all credibility over their Intelligence concerning the WMD in Iraq. That is a huge issue which needs correcting. Sadly, with the current situation evolving, we are seeing those who do not have inquisitive minds simply following the lead, like Lemmings over a Cliff top.

At the moment, it's all a Political game of charades without any real substance being presented. The Public (us "plebs" as we are commonly referred to within some circles), are deemed stupid and will believe unquestionably what we're told. So when someone stands up and asks the obvious question... show us the proof.. they're suddenly branded a Traitor.

I'm no supporter of Putin, nor any other Politician or Religious leader, and I believe I have the right to form my own opinion by asking questions, and seeking answers to those questions. Here, with this issue, we are seeing any questions being blocked and not answered, indeed, anyone asking for answers for those questions is immediately branded unpatriotic or indeed a traitor... both crimes that could lead to imprisonment. Where has our freedom gone ? Japan Today is a great example of free-speech, thought provocation, without having to worry too much (at present) about repercussions, but for how long ?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

A man took asylum in another country and Putin's goons offed him and his daughter too. That proves that Putin is a THUG and he violated treaties concerning justice and asylum. Khadafy did that to Libyan exiles in the 80s, Lenin killed the exiled Trotsky, Castro's Cuba and Haiti under the Duvaliers and Marcos of the Philippines have done the same thing - dictatorships from the left AND right. The point is, a vicious murder was done on UK territory by agents of a foreign government and Putin is grinning like an idiot over it. That little punkass snotty brat needs to be told to respect foreign sovereignty because he VIOLATED it and he needs to learn that you can't get away with it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

FizzBitMar. 15  11:20 am Nord Stream 2 pipeline canceled in 3..2..1..

We have a BINGO folks!!

 the U.S. State Department is warning European corporations that they will likely face penalties if they participate in the construction of Russia's Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, on the grounds that "the project undermines energy security in Europe"

Had to wait a few days for the MSM brianwashing to sink in before going after the real reason for the false flag poisoning trick. Stopping Nord Stream 2. The US should just declare Ukraine the 51st State.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

We have a BINGO folks!!

How exciting.

So who was behind the poisoning? The Jo Cox assassins?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I see the conspiracy theorists are all juiced up... tin foil hats for all. Why are people afraid to think that the obvious is actually true - that the Russians did it? What would the UK have to gain by false accusations? We sure as hell wouldn't win an armed conflict with the Russians, and no-one thinks we could, so why provoke them with lies?

Sometimes the simple answer is the truth.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I see the conspiracy theorists are all juiced up... tin foil hats for all.

Indeed. And now uncredited quotes from conspiracy sites must go unchallenged.

Well, maybe if one can't beat them...

https://politics.theonion.com/robert-mueller-ascends-into-sky-with-umbrella-after-tru-1821395781

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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