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All signs point to Republican victories: polls

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Happy day for our reader/poster 'Sarge'! Presidnt Obama is like America's Dalai Lama not fit for political job although he won Nobel Prize !

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Yeah, I'll admit, this headline pleases me. It must be disheartening to all the Democrat supporters.

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"Most also think the United States is headed in the wrong direction"

Hope! Change! Yes, we can! LOL!

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End the end, this is what the so-called "real Americans" want; I hope they enjoy it because it's about to get really "interesting" over here. I hope they enjoy the fruits of their efforts. Me? Eleven words--saving for a one way ticket out of the country forever. Hopefully the dollar doesn't completely collapse before I have the money saved.

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What this is is disheartening to Republican detractors. Both parties are worthless, its just the Republicans are also repugnant.

People are not upset with Obama's job performance or that of those up for re-election. They are upset because they did not get a miracle economic upturn and dirt cheap gasoline, and politicians cannot deliver those. But it was the Republicans who ruined any chance of them. How quickly people forget.

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The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

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End the end, this is what the so-called "real Americans" want; I hope they enjoy it because it's about to get really "interesting" over here. I hope they enjoy the fruits of their efforts. Me? Eleven words--saving for a one way ticket out of the country forever. Hopefully the dollar doesn't completely collapse before I have the money saved.

Under Obama, after his spending spree, the dollar really is headed for collapse. If Republicans taking power, and hopefully reigning in spending, and fixing a lot of the economic problems, is what terrifies you, then all I can say is, don't let the door hit you on the way out. America won't miss you.

For myself, I'm definitely voting for change. Change we really can believe in.

People are not upset with Obama's job performance or that of those up for re-election. They are upset because they did not get a miracle economic upturn and dirt cheap gasoline, and politicians cannot deliver those. But it was the Republicans who ruined any chance of them. How quickly people forget.

Wow, where have you been for the past 2 years? Obama is an incompetent idiot. I say that in the nicest way possible. His handling of the economy, the gulf crisis, the war in Afghanistan, all prove my statement. What people are upset about is his massive spending spree, dwarfing every single President in history, and his moronic Obamacare. Next year, if its not fixed, a lot of people are going to be seriously upset with his Bank fix as well, as the new regulations start hitting every business in America. No, we have very good reason to be upset with Obama. And its got nothing to do with the price of gasoline. And Republicans don't get credit for any of it. Its all on the Dems.

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All these years, RomeoRamen has been claiming the MSM was liberal.

Looks like the MSM is in bed with the Right.

Where did Romeo go so wrong? :-)

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And how will that change things in America ??? Wasn't George Bush a Republican?

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"likely voters say the Republicans would do a better job than Democrats on handling the economy, creating jobs and running the government."

I used to say that it was not the USA citizens who were idiots but the politicians but I am now strongly re-thinking this point now.

After reading, listening and watching how so many of them follow and actually believe people like Beck, Coulter, Limbaugh and the Tea Party and their complete fabrication about everything from the economy to other countries without making even the slightest effort to just do an Internet search to see if any of it is true and now these same idiot think that somehow the same idiot politicians that got them in this economic mess are going to be the ones to miraculously get them out!

How will more deregulation and lowering corporate taxes get things moving?

That is what caused the whole problem in the first place, corporations speculating and profit taking with no oversight till the pint were it is nothing more that a Pyramid scam of a massive scale and then when it collapses they will bail them out with Taxpayers money again, and yes it was the Republicans that proposed and started the bailouts!

Frankly if a surgeon messed up on my Appendix operation causing a massive infection I am sure not going to trust that same doctor to cure my infection.

I have heard many conservatives complain about the Democrats wanting to make the USA a welfare state.

But as I have observed over the year, the Republicans have made the USA a corporate welfare state on the back of regular people and those regular people seem clueless to that.

Honestly maybe the USA should scrap it constitutional section on freedom of religion and association because as it is now it has and is pandering so much toward the right wing Christian nut cases they are almost irrelevant at this point.

Three major problems are at the root of the USA's problems:

1-) Lobbiest and the fact that politicians can literally be bought.

2-) A de facto 2 party monopoly with regulation making it virtually improbable if not impossible for smaller parties to get on the ballot!

3-) An insane campaign period that leads to politicians spending more time campaigning then actually working ( Most other developed countries have limited election campaigns to between 1 to 3 months after elections are called saving billions and making it more likely politicians are actually working for their constituency..

Now I await the tirade of insults for the from the defender and supporters and of course the usual "you haven't the right to comment on USA politics seeing your not "American" but who seem they have the right to tell all the rest of us what is wrong with our systems of government!

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Here's a challenge for conservatives on JT - state one serious, practical and credible policy the GOP / tea party has for fixing the economic mess currently existing in the U.S.

Insults, deflections or unrelated questions will be taken as a clear sign the poster is unable to answer this pretty simple question.

Looking forward to seeing some thoughtful responses from conservative. :-)

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Obama only proved how much like the other politicians he can be like. Can't deliver on his miracles.

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"Yeah, I'll admit, this headline pleases me.."

Well, Sarge, that is what you get for reading headlines. Look at how the poll was conducted. Then look at who they interviewed for the story. Then look at what they said. The youngest, apparently most reasonable of all of them called Obama a "candidate". A 70 year old wants "new blood". I bet. Another 70 year old is really bent about getting his veteran's benefits, but wants to cut everything else, I guess.

Just to be fair, I promise that someday I will criticize a poll that supports my position, but let's look at this one for now.

"The AP-GfK Poll was conducted Oct 13-18 by GfK Roper Public Affairs and Corporate Communications."

I guess that firm might be unbiased. But 6 days to interview 1500 people? I guess they only had 10 college students working on this valuable poll.

"It involved landline and cell phone interviews with 1,501 adults nationwide,"

No splits given there, but what kind of voters have landlines? What kind of voter is likely to answer a poll on their cell phone? Who is likely to have time to answer a bunch of questions? Are unemployed people more or less likely to answer their residential phones? I see bias here. Younger people with jobs and cell phones were underrepresented in this poll.

The western states will be emphasized in a "nationwide" poll, and it will be conducted during business hours, when older and unemployed people are likely to be available to take a survey, and not the other 90% of people who work for a living.

If a person did not answer their phone, what did the pollster do? Was another person chosen from a pool or did they call back? One choice spoils the randomness, which invalidates their claim of "margin of error". The other choice gives great weight to their initial selection and makes the next problem worse.

"including 846 adults classified as likely to vote in the November congressional elections."

Were they included BEFORE or AFTER the sample was taken? I suspect AFTER because 56% of phone users are not voters. It makes a huge difference and wrecks their bell curve. And does that mean that all the others are NOT likely to vote? Then why are THEY included anyway? 44% of these people's opinions don't matter, but they were included anyway for humor, presumably. Think about this and do the math and you will see that the following might be true in mathematical terms, but it makes no sense given the likely structure of this poll.

"The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 3.3 percentage points for all adults, 4.4 percentage points for likely voters."

This is misleading. A huge tip-off is that the percentage is HIGHER for the group that they should know more about.

I am skeptical.

"Republicans get higher marks with likely voters than Democrats on handling the economy, taxes, the deficit, job creation, immigration and national security, and on managing the federal government."

I believe that the poll has produced results that don't represent this. I think it might be safe to say that old, unemployed, luddite, overly religious people with enough time on their hands to watch GBeck are the people they are REALLY talking about.

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Sushisake3 sez - -

Here's a challenge for conservatives on JT - state one serious, practical and credible policy the GOP / tea party has for fixing the economic mess currently existing in the U.S.

First of all, not everyone opposed to Obama is a conservative. Some of us are Libertarians, many are independent, and not a few are disgruntled former Democrat Party supporters.

Second - are you an American citizen? Why do we have to explain ourselves to you?

Third - the solutions you ask about are on the net. Do your own search!

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When I open the sliding door on the west side of my Tokyo house, I can hear the laughter coming all the way from Beijing.

By the way, neither party has a serious policy for fixing the economic mess. That is the whole point, their purpose is to not fix it while appearing to try to fix it. Obama's problem is that he has such a bad job of appearing to try to fix things. It is just such a hassle being a plutocracy when you have to try and keep up the appearances of being a democracy. But they look to have pulled it off again this election, will be interesting to see what rabbits they can pull out of their hats for 2012.

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Limbo, my thinking about people has been changed by the internet and its anonymous nature.

I used to think that pretty well everyone was reasonable and prone to make similar decisions when given similar information. The truth is that people are kooks, and you never know where they will pop up. I spent most of my life as a Republican, and I kind of glossed over their foibles, but now ... well... I am reminded of Sixth Sense..

Kid: I see stupid people.

Bruce: Where?

Kid: Everywhere. Walking around like you and me. Talking, living their lives, but they don't know they're stupid.

And that about sizes it up. People believe any old thing, and STRONGLY! They make it through each day on suspicion and superstition and sloganeering. In the movie, denial of death makes people into zombie spirits. Republicans do it by denying any old fact they care to as they move through a bizarro world where spending cuts are supposed to bring economic growth.

Anybody who has followed the Obama administration can see effort and some success from this huge task of getting the US economy going again, but that will not be rewarded. Instead, a bunch of GOP trogs are going to yank the US culturally back to the 50s and economically back to the 20s.

Smith and others blame the Japanese electorate for being fickle. Well, guess what? Either these polls are wrong, or the US is copying Japan. GOP voters have been hoodwinked and they want to do it to everyone else.

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Anybody who has followed the Obama administration can see effort and some success from this huge task of getting the US economy going again

62 percent of the country thinks we are going in the wrong direction.

Much more telling to me is something I read recently which said that close to 80 percent of Democrats/progressives either don't understand or don't believe that rent control [one example of Leftist central planning] accomplishes the very opposite of what its uniformly leftist proponents claim for it. I couldn't believe it at first, but asking friends and acquaintances on the Left and on net forums I have found this figure to be accurate.

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I look at it on a case by case basis. I'm voting for the Republican in my governor race but I kept my Democrat senator because I agreed with most of their positions. If a change to republican leadership decreases the size and scope of government than I'm fine with that. If they just decrease the parts they don't like and increase government intrusion in other areas like I think they will it will be typical of all members of the current two party system.

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Meant to say " has DONE such a bad job" not "has such a bad job".

And Tim is right. The solutions are on the net. Of course, they are not the solutions that the Tea Party / Republicans are talking about, and they would likely get somebody killed for trying, but they are out there.

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My home country has become a confused bi-polar mess. Our national impatience expects MacDonald's speed for epic changes and improvements. There is no patience to allow improvements and to give time for changes to happen. Instead, Americans now expect immediate gratification or they swing to the opposite political end. You can expect this impatient pendulum to swing back the other way soon.

Change, real useful change, takes time. American impatience will result in greater suffering for everyone in the long run.

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As I wrote on another post the Republicans and Conservatives should beware the pitfalls of history and again I really hate myself for this but it looks like I am going to be the on to invoke "Godwin's law" here.

The USA should start looking very carefully at History.

The T- Party lead by conspiracist and nut cases like Glenn Beck, with their ultra right Christian views and their blame everything on "liberals",intellectuals, Gays, illegal immigrants and Muslims gaining power by being courted by the Republicans is very reminiscent of another time.

Now replace T with N, "liberals" with "Bolsheviks/Communist", intellectuals and Gays well they stays the same, illegal Immigrants with Gipsies, Muslims with Jews and replace Republicans with Catholic Centre Party (BVP) and what do you get?

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limboinjapan. good to see someone invoking history. Modern people think that we are somehow immune to the human behaviors of the past. When in reality we see how little human beings have changed over the centuries.

Protracted economic harship, social and political frustration and impatience and a new group with popular ideas and someone to blame and you have all the elements of many past dark periods in history.

I can't help but feel that the world is living over many of the elements of the post great depression. Rising dangerous powers, confused national leadership in many nations, dark divisions between the needs of the powerful and wealthy and the needs of the working masses. And the widespread ability to find someone to blame, whether Muslims, Liberals or other nationalities from past conflicts.

We live in a dangerous time. One that will only get worst as environmental and energy problems come home more and more in the years to come. And with them, greater economic uncertainty and hardship.

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state one serious, practical and credible policy the GOP / tea party has for fixing the economic mess currently existing in the U.S.

sushisake, here's one for you. Close the borders to illegal immigration. The impact of millions of poor people coming to America and requiring social services (welfare, food stamps, free medical, schools) is a drain on local governments. Those free goodies have to come from some place, and that is tax money that could have been used to fix the roads and schools.

So since I gave you something, what is is that you as a fellow traveler Democrat thinks needs to be done.

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Sigh. We're doomed. I can't stand either party anymore. I think I'll be staying in Japan a little longer...

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If it happens, it happens. Most of us said before Obama was elected that the bush cabal had screwed things up so badly there was no way the Dems could fix it right out and the Repubs would make grounds again, so here we are. Fortunately, if those wacky tea-party loons get in there they'll put the Dems back in power again NEXT election, given that said loons are so out of touch with reality people will realize you should probably look into what you're voting for first instead of simply listening to FOX or what have you.

The US gets to, once again, become the laughing stock of the world.

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smithinjapan -- Do we ever stop being the laughing stock? Honestly. If we're not bullies, we're bumbling idiots. The worst part is, the loudest people making us look bad could care less about the image we're showing to the world. Those tea-party folks want only to entertain the lesser informed crowd of their country-- conservatives AND liberals who take what they hear and make base judgements and vote because why bother forming an opinion of your own?

I want to see where we'll be in a few months. When the republicans take over again and things aren't picking up, is everyone going to be whining about how they're not working fast enough or trying to "make excuses" like everyone supposedly did for Obama? Hmmm.

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smithinjapan. Dead on. The pendulum is swinging wildly. Americans need to slow down and learn patience.

kokorocloud. I planned to be in Japan for a year. Bush got elected and the US went to hell overnight. Obama's election was encouraging, but I expected the back swing. The US is in chaos and will stay so for a while to come.

Japan is a mess too, but at least I don't have to listen to the screwed up politicians here.

And Alphaape. You see only one side of illegal immigration. All those jobs you think they are taking away from white America, well those Americans don't want to scrub your floors, pick your fruit or stand in line all day hoping for a chance to dig a ditch somewhere.

The illegals feed a labor area that Americans don't fill. Take them away and there will be consequences.

The other end of it, is that this rabid anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, anti-foreigner, anti-liberal hatred in America is something you should be worried about. It rings too close to past eras where the hated soon became the hunted and the dead. Americans are not immune to the corruption hatred can bring to a society.

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Under Obama, after his spending spree, the dollar really is headed for collapse. If Republicans taking power, and hopefully reigning in spending, and fixing a lot of the economic problems, is what terrifies you, then all I can say is, don't let the door hit you on the way out. America won't miss you.

I try to miss the doorknob. Enjoy taking those suitcases of dollars to Super Walmart to buy a loaf of bread sir!

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Some of us are Libertarians, many are independent,

Libertarian and Independent=too afraid to admit to being a Republican.

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Neither party is popular.

I wonder why. Either way you vote, you're screwed.

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Love the pre-game analysis/preemptive blame away of The Big Loss by Obama's jilted fan base.

Likes Ms Palin sez:"I can see November from my house."

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I'm imagining an America with a GOP-led Congress and a House sprinkled with fresh-faced tea partiers. I'm seeing even worse electoral gridlock than we have now and a bunch of loud noises but not much else coming from tea partiers on the bottom rungs of committees. If Conservatives' vote for change, they're not going to get it.

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@Sushisaki-

No one is saying that we have a longing and believe that the Republicans are the absolute answer to all of America's problems, but they CAN stop the financial bleeding (out of control spending) providing they adhere and go back to being traditionally fiscally conservative. Right now the Democrats control all three branches of government. There are NO brakes for this President, its green light all the way and it needs to come to an end or this man will spend us into oblivion!

Closing the border or get a grip on ILLEGAL immigration. LISTENING to the American people and more importantly listening and reaching across the aisle. Obama calls the Rep. party, the party of NO and yet, he won't even work, take advice or listen to anyone, so before he criticizes the opposition, he should check himself first. Cutting taxes for Big business. This is another big problem as to why Americans can't hire, pay for benefits or expand business.

Acknowledging and being honest that we DO HAVE a Muslim or to be more PC: "Extremist" Muslim and to meet it head-on and not shy away from political correctness and to be more engaging. And I get so sick and tired when Liberals throw in accusations of race or to constantly play the race card. Most people object to Obama's radical, ueber radical far-left policies. As a person who comes from an ethnic background, Liberals are now getting desperate. First it was Bush's fault, the Republicans fault, then it was FOX's fault, then it was the Tea party, John Boehner, and they had to of course throw in "immigration" and on and on.... None of it is working and even MSNBC can't change the perceptions of how people should feel about Obama. Now at this time and point, Americans care ONLY about one thing and that is jobs, jobs, jobs.

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If Conservatives' vote for change, they're not going to get it.

Yes they will. Common Americans still have a little money in their pockets and a little blood in their veins--the Republicans will suck all of that away and that's what conservatives want.

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@bass4funk.

The GOP may stop spending your tax money on you. But they will find some war or corporation to spend it on instead. I prefer having my tax money spent on me and people like me.

GOP loves business and don't give a damn about workers. If you are business, the good for you. If you are anyone else, well... welcome to the Siberia of political sympathy.

Illegals. Wonder how many GOP folks out there employ undocumented workers. this seems to pop up a lot. If there is no demand for dirt cheap labor, there will be no illegals coming to starve on the streets. But America demands dirt cheap labor. You want to solve immigration problems, then you need to look at a much bigger picture than what party is in office. You need to look at the spectrum of American labor and regional responsibility for neighboring nations.

There is no Muslim problem. The real problem out there is extremism in many forms. That is what you want to address and stop the xeonophobic nonsense.

Plus mate, where have your two wars gotten America other than broke? The key leaders of terror are still out there, they still hate us and they are still planning to harm us. What did your "American Football" head on attacks get you? Answer, lots of dead military people, lots of dead Iraquis and Afghans, a greater problem in Pakistan, a resurgent Taliban and unmeasured piles of money spent for nothing.

America's greatest problem are the legions of people too caught up in this GOP/DEM rat race. The reality is neither party supports working people. Neither party has the answers. And this tea crowd are just a bunch of reactionaries taking advantage of the frustrations.

America needs new ideas to make things work. We need government that cares as much about working people as it does about the rich and powerful. And we need people who are not afraid to pay for things America needs while taking steps to empower the people to do better as well.

So many people with their noses glued to one tree and missing the much bigger and far more important total picture. Take a step back and wake up.

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"If Conservatives' vote for change, they're not going to get it."

Well put. Kind of makes me think that the Dems should put out a TV ad telling the GOP voters not to vote because it will only be prolonging the agony. Better to let Obama have the full legislature, screw up the country, and then vote all the bums out in 2012. That is the last minute message Dems should push at GOP voters.

Oh, but wait, it's the GOP telling Dems not to vote, I forgot.

I am going to stay optimistic. Every Dem I know seems to be resigned to a defeat, but if history has taught us something, it is that the TP and GOP are full of loudmouths. It does not mean that they have the numbers. I hope that these gloomy predictions get Dems to the polls. And they might.

And looking ahead, this will be a good signal to end Dem complacency and lip service to "compromise". I hope bad results, if they come, will compel Dems to march to the middle and claim that ground being surrendered by the Tea Party. If you are a minority, gay, or female in the US, you had better be Democrat, even if you are angry. If you believe in the separation of church and state, Dem is the party for you. If that message stays clear, then Dems will win again in 2012, which matters more anyway.

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All those jobs you think they are taking away from white America, well those Americans don't want to scrub your floors, pick your fruit or stand in line all day hoping for a chance to dig a ditch somewhere.

tkoind2, I hate to say but that is just the same old song and dance that the illegal immigrant supporters keep saying. Have you been to any of the inner cities and other poor areas in the US? Many of those jobs, like working fast food (McDonald's has healthcare for their employees too), you don't see they young American's working (like I did in high school/college), but people who probably are not legal. Those jobs, that many youths start off in, build in you a sense of work responsibilty, and now you have many youth (look at the black male unemployment rate) and see that they aren't getting the jobs. Same goes for those maid jobs in hotels and others.

For many years while I was growing up in the deep south, those low wage jobs were being done by blacks and whites. Now I go back home, and see a majority of people who aren't US citizens doing these jobs

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The President has very little power. The elitists are controlling everything to maintain their advantage no matter what party is in power. Elitists have the cash and they make the decisions. Too many chances and no changes.

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Libertarian and Independent=too afraid to admit to being a Republican.

People would like to admit to being Republican but are probably heartbroken over what the party has become. More and more for the haves and all of it being bled from the have-nots. Not the way it was meant to be. Not at all.

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"We're doomed"

Cheer up! It's almost November, plus it's already Christmas!

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@tkoind2-

Sorry, but there IS a Muslim problem and I have absolutely NO qualms saying it. Whether you want to stick your head in the sand and say it is not a problem, reality is, it is very much a problem. And stop with the xenophobia banter! Yes, you have some people that don't like muslims, but look what's going on in Europe and many other nations. So in your opinion we are not allowed to criticize muslims under NO circumstances. Your analysis is way off!

I never said that both parties benefit from Illegal immigrants, there is no doubt about that, but the people, let me say it again, THE PEOPLE are this time around more vocal in their opposition to illegal immigration than every before, so I do believe in one way or another in the very near future that this problem WILL BE scrutinized more than ever.

America's greatest problem are the legions of people too caught up in this GOP/DEM rat race. The reality is neither party supports working people. Neither party has the answers. And this tea crowd are just a bunch of reactionaries taking advantage of the frustrations.

America is NOT a perfect country. Please tell me what nation is? Does that mean we should not go out and vote? We should not try? This is the whole reason of the tea party movement. Which is comprised of everyday people from Liberals, Conservatives, Libertarians and Independents and many that are against mainstream Washington. At least in the US we CAN have a say and make a difference by voting for individuals rather than a whole party where you have no idea what you will get. I think we are more than awake.

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Wiki any mid-term election for the last 100 years. By and large, the Presiden't party loses seats in Congress. Sometimes, like 1946, 1966, 1974, 1982, 1994, and 2006 , it's by a large amount.

All this goofy wave talk is nothing new.

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Wow. The frustration here, the stereotyping, the denial, the straw men and red herrings being trotted out, the sour grapes and the silly predictions from the authoritarian Left here makes me think Democrat Party losses in the House will be over the 55 that Rasmussen foresees.

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Yet another nail in the dem's coffin: According to Gallup U.S. unemployment was at 10.0 percent in mid-October.

Winning big time next month means the republicans will have to tackle the mess Obama and his thugs created that contributed to this 10 percent unemployment figure.

Especially, after Obama said he would hold unemployment at 8 percent if we, the taxpaying people, would just give him a whole lotta cash which, as everyone knows, we did. Money which was to be used to implement "shovel-ready" jobs that now Obama admits was all a lie.

The democrat drubbin' is a comin'.

RR

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Great to watch the liberals' meltdown and acting like spoiled children having a temper tantrum. Obama and his democrats' failure has unhinged them. It's very amusing.

Psssst, hey global liberals: Get some anger management over the next two weeks. We don't want to read about you guys getting violent in the JT crime section.

Heh, heh.

RR

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I can see a new president for America in 2012. It wont be Obama, thank God.

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The funniest thing I see here is that all that claim the USA sticks their nose in matters that isn't their business are so willing to comment on what the Americans are doing in their own country. I urge the Europeans and especially the Canadians to stick to your own country when it comes to politics. Start practicing what you preach and let the Americans take care of their own country. It's not up to you. It's up to them. Watch from the sidelines and keep your America bashing personalities (egos) in check. Humility and humbleness is a virtue.

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Realist: Just wantin' to run for president with a toilet paper thing resume is enough to be president, don't cha know.

RR

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I like how having a conversation about the actual state of things is having a meltdown or throwing a tantrum.

And sorry that I'm not whopping it up with you folks, but let's think about this realistically. WhoEVER gets in office is more than likely not going to have the solution right off the bat either. This isn't a click your heels three times and say "economic recovery!" or "jobs for everyone!" kind of solution. If the republicans don't make the change (excuse me, that's become like a bad word nowadays) like everyone thinks they will, are we going to get the same kind of comments or not? That's all I really want to know. I would imagine not, at least not from the tea party crowd that's so intent on talking about everything the Left has done/is doing wrong rather than anything worthwhile. I said the same exact thing about the liberals who jumped on the bandwagon for wanting Bush's/the Right's head on a platter because that was the cool thing to do, rather than actually disagreeing with him or their policies.

I still say things are only going to get worse, because people are too narrowminded on every side of the issue. People just want someone else to point their fingers at.

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Psssst, hey global liberals: Get some anger management over the next two weeks. We don't want to read about you guys getting violent in the JT crime section.

I know this is a painful moment for many über Liberals here on JT, but I hate to you guys "I told you so" but I did. The only thing now is to suck it up, man up and hopefully in 2012 we can have REAL change....minus the current President.

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i say just give the whole lot back to the republicans. cant wait for sarah palin to become president, so she can finish where bush left off and the can stfu. ive only got 6 more months in america promoting my book anyway, then its back to japan. america is uninhabitable under those republitards.

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Real change and the GOP? I've read your policies... Not seeing any change there :|

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Ok right wingers. Calm down. The so called "liberals" I know expected this vascillation and are more saddened than angered at the self destructive nature of American politics today.

bass4funk. Your statement that we have a "Mulsim problem" reeks of xeonophobia. Nearly 1/4 of the world's population are Muslim and live in peace and harmony with everyone else. A miniscule radical element are responsible for the problems out there, something our foreign policy was complicit in creating, and you blame the entirety of Islam.

How would you like it if we blame the entirety of White Americans for the actions of your Nazi friends in Idaho? Would you feel good about that? Would you consider it fair and unbiased? I think you would be freaking out in every way possible if someone did that to you. So let's stop with the gross generalizations. Remember Hitler blamed a lot of peope for Germany's problems and the Germans rounded those people up and killed them. You should take care in fostering hatred friend.

Next.

It amazes me that the right demonizes liberal thinking when our country is based on the concepts of liberty. One can only shake one's head at the poor redneck who says "I don't want no national healthcare" while his toothless, unvaccinated children run barefoot in the background.

Liberals most often benefit the people who need it most. The poor, the uneducated, the working classes and the people just trying to get by. While the uninformed right supports parties that give more breaks to guys making millions and nothing to the poor. Just because you are foolish enough to believe the propaganda that Joe Redneck has any prayer of gettin wealthy off his hard work. Gerbles would be in awe of the effectiveness of this propaganda in keeping large numbers of people from demanding better treatment from government and industry.

Go ahead, vote in all the radical right you want to. But don't come crying to us when they get you into war with Iran or N.Korea, wreck the economy, cost you jobs and erase all your opportunities for education and community development.

America is indeed the model of a dying Roman empire. China smells the scent of decay and so do many others. Blame us if it makes you feel better, but reality is far from the dream world you are laboring away in.

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America is indeed the model of a dying Roman empire.

I agree.

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"Our destiny is written by us."

-- Barack Obama

Heh, heh.

RR

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America is indeed the model of a dying Roman empire.

Well, then, brace yourselves. Only a couple of centuries to go.

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m5c32-- Haha. Indeed. It was going to happen sooner or later.

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""Our destiny is written by us." -- Barack Obama"

I agree with this statement. The problem is that it is equally written by our impatience and our selfishness. People are not thinking about the greater good of everyone. Instead, there is all this finger pointing, xeonophobia, racism and hatred. And all of that with the attention span and patiences of a rodent.

Real change takes time. Progress takes time. But Americans no longer have the wisdom or the patience to give things time or to give change a chance to manifest.

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"America is indeed the model of a dying Roman empire"

Har!

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tkoind2 - "Go ahead, vote in all the radical right you want to. But don't come crying to us when they get you into war with Iran or N.Korea, wreck the economy, cost you jobs and erase all your opportunities for education and community development."

Agreed.

If the GOP takes Congress, it'll be bye bye USS America, and we won't hear the death rattles over the shrieking of RomeoRamens and TimRusserts of the Right.

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Next president...drum roll....Jeb Bush

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November 2nd's vote is on Obama's bad policies, not on party. That's why there has been a Tea Party movement, and subsequent support from Tea Party activists for candidates running for office who promise to cut government waste/spending, lower taxation for the working Americans, repeal the nightmare that is the Barack Hussein Obama Memorial Health Care Scam and better secure our borders (both north and south) from illegal entry and criminal activity.

November 2nd is not about which party to vote for, but rather about voting for representatives who'll curtail Obama's continued agenda to bankrupt America by giving entitlements (welfare) in the form of two years of unemployment benefits, more and more benefits for not working and having more and more children and getting support from the government (taxpayers) to pay for those people without their working for it.

That will save America billions of dollars annually and begin to put us back on the right track. Our vote next month is to restore fiscal responsibility within our government.

The democrats had their chance and they blew it big time. Conservatives are America's only chance to stop Obama's harmful programs.

RR

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I am a registered independent in the U.S., and have voted for members of both parties in recent years. What scares me about this likely "Republican" victory is the number of Tea Party candidates that are in that number. I mean did everyone else read the story I did the other day where the Republican/Tea party lady running in I believe Delaware argued that the Constitution does not mandate a separation of church and state in a debate? And when advised that that is exactly what the First Amendment states, said she could not be sure because she had forgotten her copy of the Constitution. My God, that is just plain scary.

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lower taxation for the working Americans

Why bother? The "working Americans" are now ALSO unemployed. There are new faces at the welfare offices, have you been to one lately? Not everyone who's on welfare is bleeding the country dry and benefitting without working for it, many don't even want to BE on it.

Our vote next month is to restore fiscal responsibility within our government.

I WISH I could believe this, but listening to some of the arguments here and everywhere else it sounds like a sporting match, people just want their team to win, no matter the cost. Maybe that's what you want, but perhaps it's time to go back and look at what some of the party supporters are saying.

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herefornow-- No, you are not the only one. And it is scary.

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"Now replace T with N [ as in "Nazi"? - - how original ! ], "liberals" with "Bolsheviks/Communist", intellectuals and Gays well they stays the same, illegal Immigrants with Gipsies, Muslims with Jews and replace Republicans with Catholic Centre Party (BVP) and what do you get?"

I'll tell you what you get - a lame, embarrassingly strained attempt at an analogy, and nothing more.

"America is indeed the model of a dying Roman empire."

Ridiculous. Anyone here old enough to remember the malaise of the Carter years knows where America is right now.

The secular Left spent 8 years alternately shrieking and then mewling about how Reagan was going to ignite a worldwide nuclear conflagration.Never happened. Instead, the Soviet Union collapsed without firing a single missile.

Is there any American here old enough to remember how damn near every high school or college kid you knew back then was forced to read Jonathan Schell's Fate of the Earth? Remember all the hysteria about the made for TV movie The Day After ?

The Left also predicted throughout the Reagan years, as they did with Bush sr and then jr, that the long dark night of fascism was upon America and we were all doomed.

As has always been the case, it is Europe which is far more likely to devolve into fascism, since they did of course invent it.

Obama represents the anti-climactic culmination of the malignant postmodernist agenda, which has had a roughly five decade arc in America that has done an awful lot of damage to our great nation.

Mercifully, that era ends soon - - with a whimper, not a bang.

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Many Americans are buying into the hype and not caring about the details. They don't know the real agenda of the T-party nut jobs. They are just responding with impatient knee jerk reactions to the right wing propaganda.

Really?!? Did you expect eight years of mess to be cleared up with the snap of a finger? Real change takes real time people.

Why on earth would people without health care hate the idea of national health care? Because the reactionaries told them that they should be afraid of it. Where is the right wing alternative for the 1/2 of the nation without health care? Their only answer seems to be fear mongering.

Kokorocloud is right. This sounds like a sports match. And I think Americans now treat politics with the same passing interest and fanaticism. Go team!! With no more long term thinking than an afternoon at the ball game.

The reality in America is that working people and those who wish they could be working have been on the losing end of things for decads now. People want to work, they want a safe secure place to live, they want good communities, they want education for their kids and they want a better future. Neither party has helped make this possible. And the 19th century do it yourself of die belief system of some out there have zero hope of building a strong nation for the future.

America can only be strong again if she raises everyone up. EVERYONE. Education, housing, jobs, health care and safe cities. Any party not offering tangible solutions to these problems cannot be trusted. Everything else is smoke and mirrors. Vote for people who will solve these problems and give them the time and support they need to do so.

This T-party collection of redneck radicals will not help Americans. It will be one more sad chapter in a growing novel of sad political chapters. And on the losing end, just about everyone in normal mainstream America.

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Tim: Great post.

RR

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Tim Russert --

"Obama represents the anti-climactic culmination of the malignant postmodernist agenda, which has had a roughly five decade arc in America that has done an awful lot of damage to our great nation"

The REAL Tim Russert would be mortified if he saw his name associated with this kind of right-wing/sound-bite nonsense. You remind me of the guy Matt Damon verbally trashes in the Harvard bar in "Good Wiil Hunting" -- you can simply repeat some obscure theory that you came across, as opposed to empressing anything original. Please stop dis-honoring Tim Russert's legacy as a thoughtful, fair, and intelligent journalist and find a new screen name.

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RomeoRamen - "November 2nd's vote is on Obama's bad policies, not on party. That's why there has been a Tea Party movement, and subsequent support from Tea Party activists for candidates running for office who promise to cut government waste/spending, lower taxation for the working Americans,..."

lol! You know as well as we all do that the tea party - like the GOP - doesn't have a strategy to speak of to pull all this off.

You are just talking soundbites.

"..November 2nd is not about which party to vote for, but rather about voting for representatives who'll curtail Obama's continued agenda to bankrupt America...by giving entitlements (welfare) in the form of two years of unemployment benefits, more and more benefits for not working and having more and more children and getting support from the government (taxpayers) to pay for those people without their working for it. That will save America billions of dollars annually and begin to put us back on the right track. Our vote next month is to restore fiscal responsibility within our government."

No, next month is an opportunity for conservatives like yourself to vote for conservative candidates who have no viable strategy whatsoever to fix the economy besides mouthing off a bunch of soundbites that you are totally buying into.

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TimRussert : Mmm hmm.

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herefornow - "I mean did everyone else read the story I did the other day where the Republican/Tea party lady running in I believe Delaware argued that the Constitution does not mandate a separation of church and state in a debate? And when advised that that is exactly what the First Amendment states, said she could not be sure because she had forgotten her copy of the Constitution. My God, that is just plain scary."

And that is precisely the kind of candidate that the likes of RomeoRamen, TimRussert, Sarge, etc. would throw their support behind at the drop of a hat.

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twokind2 - "Many Americans are buying into the hype and not caring about the details."

I couldn't have put it better myself.

I'll add that there are no details coming from the GOP/tea partiers but that doesn't seem to be stopping the Right from buying into the soundbites.

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I think I need to repeat the Righ twing mantra again -

"Cut the deficit!"

Too bad none of them know how.

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I mean did everyone else read the story I did the other day where the Republican/Tea party lady running in I believe Delaware argued that the Constitution does not mandate a separation of church and state in a debate?

The phrase "separation of church and state" appears nowhere in the Constitution.

And nowhere in their debate did she argue that our Constitution does not mandate separation of church and state, she merely questioned her opponent's understanding of that dimension of the framers' intent and his overall knowledge of our Constitution, that truly amazing document. That Coons could not name when asked by O'Donnell the five freedoms the First Amendment guarantees speaks worse of Coons than does anything O'Donnell did in the dabate.

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RomeoRamen - "That will save America billions of dollars annually and begin to put us back on the right track. Our vote next month is to restore fiscal responsibility within our government."

Sounds like a wide-eyed, first-time voter straight out of high school. :-)

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You remind me of the guy Matt Damon verbally trashes in the Harvard bar in "Good Wiil Hunting" -- you can simply repeat some obscure theory that you came across, as opposed to empressing anything original.

Go ahead, check for yourself. What I wrote are my own observations on Obama and the viability of the post-modernist vision. I am a former Democrat who is culturally of the Left, born and raised on the Left Coast. I am not like some guy out of your favorite Matt Damon flick (a piece o crap if you ask me). No, I am your worst enemy on a site like this.

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@mikehuntez at 01:06 PM JST - 21st October

Are you serious or just being bad at sarcasm?

It always amazes me when "Americans" tell other how to act but of course "don't do as we do"!

Reading for some time your own post it seems you enjoy telling Japan and the rest how things should be done but god forbid they tell the USA what they think!

This is the "A" typical Right wing response to anyone that does not agree with them "Shut up" and if that person does happen to be "American" then its "Shut up you leftist you are un-american and BTW don't vote"!

It is more often then not the "Americans" themselves ( Right wing) that create the situation where another country like Canada, France and even the UK end up having to say something due to their misrepresentation, lies, and fear mongering about those countries especially during election campaigns.

If the Republican party and its new bedfellow the Tea party had any real plans and substance in their parties platform they wouldn't need to find a bogeyman as they have recently with Canada and rehashing long debunked lies prompting the Canadian Ambassador to again set the record strait but knowing USA politics of the right they will do it again and again.

I will turn your own words back at you "Start practicing what you preach!" and leave the fear mongering and attacks on other countries out of your politics and find a real platform to campaign on!

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Our vote next month is to restore fiscal responsibility within our government.

The problem with you republicans is that you rarely want to pay for a balanced budget. Basically, it comes down to major cuts in the military, which you do not want to pay for. Reagan, took his budget director, Stockton, out to the woodshed, so to speak, (major cartoons on this) as he gave Reagan the harsh truth. Cut social security spending, AND military AND raise taxes, then you have a balanced budget. But losing the old geezers would be Reagan at risk, losing the military right-wingers and military industrial complex would doom Reagan and raising taxes was the ONLY thing he ran against, so we at, at the end of the day, ENDLESS debt and deficits with the god of Reagan. Now, they want to ask for the Bush taxes cut to never end, which would cost 4 Trillion dollars and not ONE republican could say what cuts they would make to pay for this. Fox news Anchor Chris Wallace, I think, asked Fionna about this SEVEN times and she could never bring herself to identify in what way, she could save 4 trillion, from which to balance the budget. She called it a political question. Again, it all leaves me breathless!

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And note, that there was not the growth under Reagan from which flooded the treasury with extra money. That came with Clinton, under a tax hike!

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TimRussert -- wrong. On all counts. While the phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear in the First Amendment, the phrase does appear in numerous court rulings, including Supreme Court ones in explaining the meaning/intent of it. And, she was not questioning anything of the like. She brought up the subject. And, then, when pressed to say what the Fourth and Fifth Amendments deal with, she could not answer. Brining well-deserved laughter from the audience. Please, don't flatter yourself -- you are no one's "worst enemy", especially mine. In fact, just the opposite, you are easy pickings because you lead with your chin/mouth, rather than your brain. Especially when you continue to use terms like "post-modernist vision". Was that Rush's topic today?

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And didn't she study law or something related to this? Wow!

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The first amendment doesn't literally say "separation of church and state", but that is the meaning of the words. Scary stuff to be discussing this. The us is secular.

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Junnama:"The us is secular"

Not if the Republicans and their new found bedfellow the Tea Party get their way it won't be!

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Obama had no quick fix for the mess he inherited and what the grab group on Wall Street added to it. So now he and his party have to go. The Republicans can't wait to do the quick fix; surely they have a plan. Yeah, right.

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BAHAHA that was short lived. Thats what happens when your party doesnt do anything!! You rushed in a public healthcare bill patted yourselves on the back and did nothing since. If the public option is good...well thats a different topic. Goodbye!

And all those bashing Americas national debt...Countries like Britain, Japan, Spain and about 7 other Euro nations are in the trillions. Trillions...2 trillion, 10 trillion...both mean never getting paid off. Check out the US debt as a % of our GDP. About 53 countries worse then the US. So save it.

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Junnama:"The us is secular" Not if the Republicans and their new found bedfellow the Tea Party get their way it won't be!

Proof? You have none.

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The global liberal shriekfest is at fever pitch at this site and we're still less than two weeks away from the democrat shellacking by the party that was suppose to be relegated "to the dustbin of history" less than two years ago.

Too funny.

RR

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Ask any conservative what the Right's plan to balance the budget and fix the economy is and they'll say absolutely nothing of any relevance whatsoever. Try it. It's hilarious. :-) Even the usually well-spoken Molenir admitted he doesn't have a clue how the GOP will bring down the deficit. Meanwhile, Conservatives are chomping at the bit to vote for a bunch of clueless dopes who have zero credible strategy for doing anything besides fill conservatives' heads with totally baseless soundbites. lol!

Even funnier is the fact that conservatives are excited about voting for a pack of airheads.

I don't think I can take much more of this. The crazies are taking over. Bye bye America. Thanks for the laughs. :-)

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@genji17 at 05:25 PM JST - 21st October

I don't think any of the places or the people of those places you mentioned have said anything (at least not on JT) about the USA dept.

What they (we) have said was/is that the Republicans/Tea Party instead of presenting a fiscal platform they have used lies false allegations and time and again debunked rumors about their (our) countries and fear mongering.

And what they (we) are saying is if you think the Dems and Obama are so bad at handling things then put something substantial on the table and stop the lies and fear mongering about us! That's fair enough isn't it?

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Even RomeoRamen doesn't know how the Right plans to bring down the deficit. Hilarious thing is s/he has been totally duped into believing the Right has a 'strategy.' Too funny. :-)

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RomeoRamenII. Do you even know what a liberal is? Or just what the Fox News peanut gallery tell you a "liberal" is.

Like your fascist friends from history the new right in America has a lable for everyone. Much easier to dismiss criticism by pasting a big red lable on it than to actually respond with any tangible information.

Where are your solutions to the deficit? How will you balance the budget? How will you address the heathcare needs of half the American people? What will you do to create jobs, how many jobs and when? What will you do about resolving Afghanistan? How will you offset the related problems in Pakistan and their implications for world security? What is your solution to declining education opportunities and decreased access to higher education?

I don't hear the T-party addressing any of this. I hear a lot of name calling, a lot of cluelessness about basic things like the the constitution. These "politicians" don't have any answers. I just hear accusations and rhetoric.

Show me the stone hard answers!!!! Enough name calling. Put your political money where your mouth is and lay out their platform for resolving the nation's problems. I bet you can't and have no clue either.

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86 posts so far and like Democrat Party candidates on the campaign trail none are touting what the illiberal neo-marxist Obama administration and the Pelosi-Reid Congress have shoved down our throats.

Absolutely no one is out there saying 'Yeah, ObamaCare, I was instrumental in helping Pelosi and the Gang craft all 2000 pages, in secret, and I am proud of it!'

But there are more than a few Democrats trying their damndest to sound like they are down with them crazy, racist, mouth-breathing 'tea partiers.'

Meanwhile, DailyKos and DU heart throb, the thuggish Alan Grayson - who many a Kos Kiddie wanted to run for prez in 2016 - has been abandoned by the Democrats. Cut off. No more money tossed into that race, since it looks like a Repub lock up. Grayson is trolling DU asking for donations.

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MisterCreosote: "Proof? You have none."

I don't think there is enough time in the day or enough memory in JT Data banks to list all the times the Tea Party/Republican candidates have been quote concerning "returning the Christian values" and " America is a country of the Christian God".

And lets not forget the consistent rumor that Obama is a Muslim as if it were a crime even if he was!

I could go on but it will make little or no difference to you as you seem content in the elusion that, that is not what these people want despite the fact that they openly say it every chance they get!

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limboinjapan. I have been afraid to even go down that path. It is too scary that Americans are voting for people who are so clueless about the fundamental statutes of our country.

What all this values talk translates to is scary, but here it is. The T-party's America is a white, protestant, straight, pro-military, anti-immigrant movement of people well ready to exclude anyone who does not fall into this very small definition of "values."

If you are gay, Muslim, liberal, atheist, Catholic, any non-protestant faith, pacifist, environmentalist or any of a legion of other "undesirables" then you had better be ready to be on the outside.

I cannot help but draw lines between this movement and the extreme right movements of Europe last century. They all claimed to be supporting the traditional values of their countries in the name of returning to a godly and righteous national model. But what it meant in reality was exclusion, disempowerment and eventually outright repression.

The T-Party are a scary gang of clueless leaders with no useful agenda and an excess of divisive hate that just happens to appeal to the politically weak, ignorant and uniformed. The world should be watching with a very worried eye. As should anyone not fitting in that tiny "christian values" box.

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"Like your fascist friends from history the new right in America has a lable for everyone."

Thats rich coming from Obama supporters. Is there anyone your hero hasn't demonized?

Fascism was less about left or right than it was about organization. If it is anything it was/is anti- "small government." Instead you have large, fascist control of business, central planning, the individual subservient to the group* and the belief that society must unite (be united by force, if necessary) for some transcendental purpose, the nature of which depends on the nation. It is utopian. All of this is pretty elementary stuff. I'm embarrassed to have to explain it.

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Still waiting for those policy platform points I asked about. Dead silence so far..............

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Wait! I've been wrong all along. The Right DOES have a strategy! It's that the size of the deficit is inversely proportional to the volume of their shrieking. More noise = means a lower deficit. That'd explain the deafening noise coming from the Right. And for those conservatives out there who didn't quite get that, 'inversely proportional' is what happens when you have a bender with the wife...

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What is this myth of small government. Let's think this through shall we?

America wants to project global power and wage war on terror. Just how do you think you can do that with a small government? You cannot.

T-party promises jobs, yet without some government intervention no new jobs are coming. It is a myth that giving breaks to business will result in enough new jobs. Business, like any economic force will conserve those savings and deploy them where they best need them. That very very rarely manifests as new jobs. More like other initiatives.

You noted that Fascism is Utopian. What do you think a "return to Christian Values" is? There was never a time in America where this imaginary period of perfect Christian values existed. That is your new transcendetial purpose based upon a perceived nature of the nation. Perceived because it has never really existed. The divisions between faiths in America has been substantial all of its existence. You cannot and have never lumped all Christians into the same box. Tensions between Catholic and Protestants of various colors has existed for a long time here.

It is also arguable that your supposed period of Christian perfection was not the Utopia you wish it was. Afterall African Americans and other minorities were repressed and for a long time enslaved under that time. Do you propose we bring those elements of the return to "Christian Values" back as well.

Like it or not, you are advocating a system that is very much in line with the tenants of fascism. And exclusively defined vision of how the nation should be and who it should be. And a strong message of exclusion for anyone not fitting into the mold. That very much IS Fascism.

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The T-party's America is a white, protestant, straight, pro-military, anti-immigrant movement of people well ready to exclude anyone who does not fall into this very small definition of "values."

If it were all those things wouldn't it also be , you know, horribly misogynist - intolerant of women in politics?

How to explain Sarah Palin, Christine ODonnell, Sharon Angle, Michelle Bachman, Linda McMahon?

Ruth McClung, The 28 y.o. woman running for Congress in Arizona is a rocket scientist, and I mean one who has left her job at Raytheon to challenge Democrat Raúl Grijalva.

The GOP has a record number of black candidates this year. 3 for Senate, 35 for Congress. You can check the website federick douglas foundation dot com if you don't believe me or find those numbers too great a threat to your black and white world.

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Like it or not, you are advocating a system that is very much in line with the tenants of fascism. And exclusively defined vision of how the nation should be and who it should be.

I notice you avoid any discussion of that which is most central to fascism - - its economic model.They are even more central in this era, since when the Italian and German models for fascism were being developed Western European invasion of resource rich neighboring countries was a viable option. Now it is not.

Fascism cannot survive w/o centralized planning, government takeover of big business and a command control economy - like the one Obama and his gang are trying by stealth to impose upon the US. Why else would they demonize the Chamber of Commerce of all things?

Please, try to bring a real argument. You are boring me.

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I explain the women in the T-movement the same way I would explain the women of 20th century fascism. Being female does not exclude one from being an extremist. Nor does race entirely eliminate one from being an extremist. So your logic does not hold water in this regard.

As for Ruth. Well... being smart in one field does not make you enlightened in all others. next....

The GOP knows that it has to appeal to minorities if it is ever to gain substantial power again. It is not surprising to see them support more minority members of their party. Statistics, however, clearly demonstrate that minority groups make up a very tiny percentage of GOP voters. Representation of minority interests has never been a priority for the GOP in modern times. Which is a shame given the legacy of Lincoln.

One more thing. I hope I don't need to explain Palin. She is a terrifying manifestation of GOP desperation last election and one of the least informed politicians of our generation. what more do you need to explain?

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Check out the US debt as a % of our GDP. About 53 countries worse then the US. So save it.

Moral of the story/fable: is War is expensive and unaffordable and does not work. Like to know how many were in the "coalition". I wonder, if you calculated the expenses that they all spent for their war machines, that this amount would equal or exceed their national debts. Just asking!

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The USA has claimed for years that it is the only true land of the free, but I have never seen the type of religious bigotry and pandering to the Christian right in any other developed Nation in these modern days.

Both side seem to bring it up but more so the Republicans and especially their new found love the Tea Party.

In a country that claims freedom of religion any one W, A, S, P, will inevitably have their religion dragged before the public Just take Senator Reid in his campaign in Nevada it has suddenly become a point of attack that he is Mormon.

Even JFK was attacked for being Catholic and others for being Jewish.

I most other developed and civilized countries no one even asks or cares as long as he or she are good candidates, even Japan has had a Christian PM and no one knew or cared it doesn't even show on his Wiki page why because its a non issue.

As for the USA and in particular the Republicans/Tea Party the opponents religious affiliation or worse non affiliation would be an acceptable target and another chance to fear monger.

Someone prove me wrong on this!

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Weak, tkoind. Weak.

Its the stupid economy. Thats why people no longer support our economically illiterate affirmative action president.

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ascism cannot survive w/o centralized planning, government takeover of big business and a command control economy - like the one Obama and his gang are trying by stealth to impose upon the US. Why else would they demonize the Chamber of Commerce of all things? Please, try to bring a real argument. You are boring me.

MisterCreosote, you fail, completely FAIL, to grasp the concept of fascism which Mussolini said was the union of corporation and the state. The mergers and the corporate buyouts, and the corporate funding of elections represents, to the T, the very concept of fascism. The Chamber is simply carrying the water for the corporations, which are NOW, outside of the U.S. and have NO INTEREST at all about America or the interests of the American worker. Now, unless you are a corporation, somehow made "alive" I don't see why you are CARRYING water for these.....well...moderator doesn't like negative adjectives, you see.

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The USA has claimed for years that it is the only true land of the free, but I have never seen the type of religious bigotry and pandering to the Christian right in any other developed Nation in these modern days.

Maybe you aren't as well informed as you imagine yourself to be. You think religion isn't central in India, world's most populous democracy?

Ever wonder why Tony Blair had to wait till leaving office to convert to his wife's Catholic faith?

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If it were all those things wouldn't it also be , you know, horribly misogynist - intolerant of women in politics?

Nah, that attitude is reserved for woman-hating democrats (example: look how they treated Hillary in the last general election) and Nancy boy global liberals (example: referring to Mrs. Palin as a "dolt").

RR

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The mergers and the corporate buyouts, and the corporate funding of elections represents, to the T, the very concept of fascism.

If the gov't directs the mergers, underwrites the buyouts and finds creative means of extorting corporate funding (ala Rahm Emmanuel - 'Nice car dealership you have there, shame if something should happen to it') well then, yes.

But that is far closer to what Obama and the new left in America have done and seek to do, not the Republicans.

Try again?

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Thats why people no longer support our economically illiterate affirmative action president.

Obama failed his economics course in college. He was too busy hanging out with far-left professors and their ilk to bother showing up for classes. Heh, he must have figured he'd never have any use for that kind of mumbo jumbo in the real world.

RR

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It's the same ole stuff, Republicans come in screw up, dems com in screw up, and the cycle begins all over again. A bunch of talking heads on TV on both sides. Republicans will come in, run the country into the ground, so next round the democrats come in and run it into the ground again, so the public can change their minds once again.

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"MisterCreosote:"Maybe you aren't as well informed as you imagine yourself to be. You think religion isn't central in India, world's most populous democracy?

Ever wonder why Tony Blair had to wait till leaving office to convert to his wife's Catholic faith?"

Now you are really grasping at straws "India" you are bringing up "India" as your defense!

I wrote "Developed" Nation and you pint out a developing Nation!

And Blair it was widely know he was attending Catholic church even as PM and his conversion was prolonged more for his side of the family than for politics as well it is not an overnight thing to convert so one more lame example and I was ready for it.

The fact is everyone knew it and no one said anything about it in the UK.

Had this Happened in the USA the opposition and Right wing Media would have made a stink about it and dragged every detail of his private religious decision out as if it were some sort of crime!

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Had this Happened in the USA the opposition and Right wing Media would have made a stink about it and dragged every detail of his private religious decision out as if it were some sort of crime!

Why is Reid's Mormonism no big deal with the MSM in America, but Mitt Romney's was?

Obama has 3 times this year omitted the word "Creator" when quoting our Declaration of Independence and the traditional source of our "inalienable rights."

The mainstream media just yawns. Had any conservative done this it would be proof of how utterly unfit they are for office.

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@MisterCreosote;"Why is Reid's Mormonism no big deal with the MSM in America, but Mitt Romney's was?

Obama has 3 times this year omitted the word "Creator" when quoting our Declaration of Independence and the traditional source of our "inalienable rights."

And again read what I wrote, I said "Both sides" !

You have just proven my point the USA claims freedom of religion and separation of church and state but when Obama leaves out the reference to God you take offence.

Sometime a constitution needs revising and perhaps it is time to remove the God reference and before some great intellectual starts yelling that the USA constitution has sever the USA well so far do remember that it also originally was for Free whites only and that has been changed!

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One more thing. I hope I don't need to explain Palin. She is a terrifying manifestation of GOP desperation last election and one of the least informed politicians of our generation. what more do you need to explain?

If she gets under your skin that much, then I guess she doing something right. At least she has legislative experience under her belt, governed a state. She went against mainstream Washington and at least, she tries to learn, listen and to better herself. What are Obama's overall qualifications? BTW, if anyone is desperate right now it's Democrats, Liberals and rightfully so. They're starting to throw (hopefully) Pelosi under the bus, they are distancing themselves away from the President and are eating their own. Over the next 10 days I don't even think we really begun to have seen what pure desperation is. What was that famous song again that Blue Öyster Cult used to sing? lol

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@tkoind2-

Nearly 1/4 of the world's population are Muslim and live in peace and harmony with everyone else. A miniscule radical element are responsible for the problems out there, something our foreign policy was complicit in creating, and you blame the entirety of Islam. How would you like it if we blame the entirety of White Americans for the actions of your Nazi friends in Idaho? Would you feel good about that? Would you consider it fair and unbiased? I think you would be freaking out in every way possible if someone did that to you. So let's stop with the gross generalizations. Remember Hitler blamed a lot of peope for Germany's problems and the Germans rounded those people up and killed them. You should take care in fostering hatred friend.

"Straw man" argument! No one was generalizing. That is how you want to see it. I never, not one single time EVERY expressed hatred for anyone. So for you hurl those kinds of fact less accusations against me is really disingenuous on your part, not to mention irresponsible! I never generalized ALL muslims, but to say that the US, UK, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, France, Holland, Austria, Russia, Italy have NO problems and they all integrate well into these society is totally ludicrous! So are all these countries racist and or are xenophobic?? BTW you analogy and analysis comparing Hitler to Islamic extremists is waaaaay off. Do Jews have a problem integrating into other societies historically, presently? How about Christians world wide. There is a problem with radical Islam, yes, most muslims are peaceful, law-abiding citizens, but the truth is radical Islam hijacked the whole religion and its these minuscule few that is making it bad worldwide for the many. This is the general opinion of most people. I really don't know anyone personally that hates muslims, they are out there, but to quote you, it is a small, minuscule few, but if you go to Dearborn, Mich. Muslims are doing very well, assimilated into the American way of life and for the most part, you don't hear anything negative from them. This is what always gets me about Liberals, when all else fails, go for the race card, it will shut down the discourse every single time.

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You have just proven my point the USA claims freedom of religion and separation of church and state but when Obama leaves out the reference to God you take offence...some great intellectual starts yelling that the USA constitution has sever the USA well so far do remember that it also originally was for Free whites only and that has been changed!

You don't really seem to have a point,other than advertising that you are not American and don't understand our country.

We do have separation of church and state.

We do have freedom of worship.

I object to Obama changing the wording of our Declaration of Independence, particularly in reference to our inalienable rights.

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MisterCreosote: "You don't really seem to have a point,other than advertising that you are not American and don't understand our country."

On the contrary having been raised in a country that does not push "Nationalism" or "patriotism" in our schools and tells the truth about or History with all the Horrible things are forefathers did as well as informing us well about other countries and their systems, by the time I was Ten I knew more about the USA than my fathers American partners who all held Masters degrees.

"We do have separation of church and state."

Only if your religion is not Christian

"We do have freedom of worship."

As long as you are not a politician or public figure at which point your religious or non-religious beliefs become fair game and a target of your opponents! (Or Muslim)

"I object to Obama changing the wording of our Declaration of Independence, particularly in reference to our inalienable rights."

Why does omitting God change anything are your "inalienable rights" as a Human suddenly gone because only God can grant those rights?

Your constitution was written by men and they gave you those rights not God!

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More than half disapprove of Obama’s job performance. And even more don’t like the Democratic-controlled Congress.

Heh, sounds like more than just a few democrat politicians better prepare themselves for "shovel ready" jobs starting in January.

RR

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On the contrary having been raised in a country that does not push "Nationalism" or "patriotism" in our schools and tells the truth about or History with all the Horrible things are forefathers did as well as informing us well about other countries and their systems, by the time I was Ten I knew more about the USA than my fathers American partners who all held Masters degrees.

Gosh, I'm impressed and at you did at at ten even. Not meaning to imply those other ten year old classmates, who may in the future be tea party types, couldn't keep up with your insights at the time.

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Sushi: "Bye bye America"

You wish. I'll bet you still haven't gone to the RNC's website to see their policies for deficit reduction that you keep claiming you want to know, and challenging everyone to do your homework for you, tsk tsk.

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The GOP is abandoning O'Donnell and suing her for campaign finance law violations. Toomey is losing ground, and Republican national committee people are saying that 7 other Senate races are within the margin of error.

Look at the latest Reuters.

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I couldn't find any deficit reduction strategies on the rnc website :(

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I couldn't find any deficit reduction strategies on the rnc website :(

Google Paul Ryan and hit the second link....Happy to help.

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Great in another 2 years it will be Democratic victories. Both parties are bought and paid for by special interest and could care less about the struggles of the middle class. I'd say it's about time for an armed rebellion to clear them all out.

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On the contrary having been raised in a country that does not push "Nationalism" or "patriotism" in our schools and tells the truth about or History with all the Horrible things are forefathers did as well as informing us well about other countries and their systems, by the time I was Ten I knew more about the USA than my fathers American partners who all held Masters degrees.

LOL. If you think American schools - controlled for decades now by the Left - "push" nationalism it was all of a year ago, when you were "Ten," that you got your education about the US.

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If Obama were not Black, would so many American voters be so much in a hurry to get him out of office??

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Yes, does Jimmy Carter ring a bell?! Also, Obama is "half Black" and might I ad, most of his cabinet are White and they are equally just as unpopular. This has nothing to do with color. By the way, I don't think ANY president got pounded as much as Bush did. The vitriol, the hate, just google Bush and see all the negative things you can find. Obama doesn't even come close. The reason why this President is so unpopular is because of his radical far-left policies and he is out of touch with the average American, not a friend of big business that's for sure and who do you think put him in office. Blacks make up about 13% of the electoral vote. That's not enough to get him into the White House.

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I think everyone should follow the New York State model; in our last televised debate we had a hooker and a guy that looks like a cross between Mr. T and a flashy pimp who is running on the 'rent is too damned high' party ticket. The whole nation is a tragic comedy right now. With a clueless President/administration and clueless challengers its almost best to sit back and enjoy the show. We're on the road to ruin - but eventually the bumps will smooth out no matter who's driving the car. Ancient Rome fell and so shall we. There is no law that says we have to be the leading superpower forever - let someone else take the burden for a while. Oh, by the way - my health insurance just went up by $47 a month - thanks for Obamacare, appreciate that. And it's just the beginning as soon I'll be able to pay higher taxes to pay for this ridiculous stimulus spending and 'free' (not for me) health care. Great ideas - and you honestly believe that given more time these "solutions" would work? Really?

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"Both parties are bought and paid for by special interest and could care less about the struggles of the middle class."

You just watch how the GOP uses the Tea Party. This will really be illustrative if you keep your eyes open. Here is what is happening.

The TP gets O'Don past the primaries and she gets support as a firebrand and lightning rod. They let her take all the press away from the other loser candidates benefitting from TP and GOP races elsewhere involving gay bashing and Nazi uniforms. And now the GOP sues her, discredits her, and pulls away her funding as it watches her and the Del TP go down in flames.

They are switching to support other mainstream candidates who are on board to support the rich elite agenda. Even Rove's group threw her under the bus and gave money to Toomey in PA, who is a former... wait for it.... derivatives trader.

I think that you will see TP in name only people get elected and they will be IMMEDIATELY coopted by the GOP. Once TP people see what happened to O'Donnell, they will figure out that all this Sarah Palin/Beck/O'Donnell stuff is a smokescreen and cuddle up close to their Wall Street GOP buddies. Anyone who can snooker millions of voters into voting against their interests gets an honorary GOP membership, to be sure. Some TP candidates fit the bill.

I think the GOP went after O'Donnell and Sarah Palin because they are women. THey just don't take them seriously enough to support them.

TP, get ready to be real proud. Watch how the GOP shows you who is whose batch... of unelectable populist candidates.

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Has anyone told Romeo what s/he's voting for besides a bunch of soundbites s/he is convinced are policies? Conservatives still have some time yet to realize the GOP/TParty are as clueless as their supporters are about how to fix the economy. :-)

A GOP-controlled Congress will be the kiss of death brought about by the political suicide of the Right.

Bye bye America. Thanks for the laughs. :-)

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MisterCreosote:"LOL. If you think American schools - controlled for decades now by the Left - "push" nationalism it was all of a year ago, when you were "Ten," that you got your education about the US."

Honestly not sure what you are trying to say but.

You may correct me if I am wrong but does the USA not still have students pledge allegiance to the flag?

And as I have read and seen 9 out of 10 young American don't even know where Afghanistan is (they think its in the middle east) now that would not surprise me if your troops were not fighting over there. 50% didn't know where the UK or France were and that is now in our Internet globally connected world, take a guess at what the USA education was like more than 30 years ago, and here we are talking something as simple as geography, now if we start talking politics, customs or language it get down right disturbing.

And lets not forget that nearly one in five still believe Obama is Muslim ( and I guess it would be even higher amongst the Tea Party members)

Now if the Republican party wants to associate its self with the Tea Party then it had better have a though skin because these loons spew more garbage in five minutes than Tokyo throws out in a day.

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"The reason why this President is so unpopular is because of his radical far-left policies and he is out of touch with the average American, not a friend of big business that's for sure and who do you think put him in office. Blacks make up about 13% of the electoral vote. That's not enough to get him into the White House."

Ideology, schmideiology. Go ahead and say that people are voting against this and that because they don't like fascism and communism and whatever. The truth is that the economy has not turned up yet, and people are too shortsighted to see the benefits of medical care.

You know what I know? If the numbers came out tomorrow showing 4% year on year growth and a big drop in unemployment and every other indicator looked rosy, people would not give a rat's nose about ideology. It is the economy (stupid). And because Obama cannot pull off a miracle of wringing growth from an economy with twin towers of deficits (trade and fiscal) and a tanking currency, well, he is not the messiah, and his party is going to get whacked by an electorate with the attention span of a schnauzer.

It has exactly Zero to do with ideology. That will become very clear in the years ahead. And if fact, it has almost always been true in the past.

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"I object to Obama changing the wording of our Declaration of Independence, particularly in reference to our inalienable rights."

Whoever said this has about zero knowledge of what the DoI was supposed to say. .. of why it was written. The ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR line does not fit in the least with the rest of the document, which is so humanist as to be ... well.... revolutionary.

If you were to sit down and try writing it, you would know what the problem is. You want to tell the king that you have rights. The king says you don't. But I say I do. But by whose authority? If you say to the king that you have these rights by your own recognizance, which Americans do today, he will laugh at you and say what the caterpillar said to Alice: WHO are YOU?

So you say... uh... um.... God. Yes God grants all men certain inalienable rights. There. That is the way you scare a king and give yourself some legitimacy and make sure that the French and Spanish can support you without the Pope getting his robes in a bunch.

If Obama or whoever left it out, that is cool with me. Athiests have rights, and so do Satanists and "godless commmunists" and witches, so they sure are not being doled out by (diety). Tommy Jefferson didn't believe they were either.

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I honestly can't recall seeing politics ever get this crazy, and I've lived in 4 countries. Conservatives were totally hoodwinked by bush, cheney and the neocons only 4 and 8 years ago. Now, conservatives are being led down the garden path again, only this time, the GOP has not one credible policy, and the TP is packed full of crazies. Wake up conservatives! Your shrieking drowned out real thought months ago, the lipstick is a slightly darker shade of blue but it's the same pig.

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"Your constitution was written by men and they gave you those rights not God!"

Well almost. Because my rights are inalienable, nobody gives them to me and I cannot be denied them under a just government or code. If I am denied my rights, I (should? can?) dissolve the bonds to that unjust government, if I am a true patriot.

Anyway, that is what I learned in American Patriotology 101. YMMV.

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It has exactly Zero to do with ideology. That will become very clear in the years ahead. And if fact, it has almost always been true in the past.

I would tend to disagree in the sense that this President as gone to great pains to force his ideology down the collective throats of the American people in a way that is unprecedented. The US political system has been too bi-polar (good term in this case I think) for too long, and bi-partisan give and take has always been an issue and one that either side gives willingly. But this administration has taken that to new levels. This country is supposed to be a democracy. Whatever it has become is up for interpretation and debate, but Obama has failed to realize that you can't just come in and ram unpopular - and many people feel unwise and poorly thought out - legislation through to press home your personal ideology. At least not if you want to keep the support and confidence of the population.

We could argue all day about whether or not these policies will ultimately be successful and put us on the road to recovery; I would say they are disastrous and you would conclude they are brilliant. But while all liberals here are quick to label conservatives as evil and base, the way this administration has acted with Pelosi, Reid and the President pushing through legislation that most of the rest of the legislators (dems) didn't even understand has been vile. Plain and simple, President Obama doesn't come across as someone with a pride in his country and a love of its people, but rather as the angry, Harvard educated snob who believes the rest of us to be idiots who need to be spoon fed his self-proclaimed remedies.

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I meant to say 'neither side gives willingly' above - sorry

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Looks like Whitman is in trouble in California too. She is GOP, not TP, so it looks like there will be some fingerpointing going both ways after this election. Another woman of the right who can't win. It says a lot about the GOP.

You know, I think that this article is a lame survey and a troll. My post way up at the top shows what a crummy unscientific piece of work it is. But more than that, even GOP people are saying they are in trouble in most races, and O'Donnell was nearly in tears on TV, and now Whitman and Toomey are in serious trouble.

I think I called it. The Dems are going to do better than people think they well. After Jon Stewart blows Beck out of the water, it might be teh TP and GOP getting trounced again. Obama gets a new mandate? Maybe.... just maybe....

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LOL.... America...

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The fact that the worst of the hypocrites like Whitman and Palladino are going to loose might be an indicator that the US hasn't lost it's collective mind. But the anti-incumbent groundswell is amazing and it will affect both the Dems who promised a miracle and failed to deliver and the Reps who have been in office for ages but haven't done anything to fix the mess. Obama's inability to deliver on his campaign promises hasn't helped and will probably keep a lot of the disillusioned left from getting out to vote. The result will be that the less rabid tea partiers have a chance of upsetting incumbents. Heck, it's open season on incumbents! But, in two years time, once the new crowd has proved unable to implement their promises there will be another shift. Sort of like the old "Who" song: "meet the new boss, same as the old boss..."

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Keep dreaming. A new mandate for what? More 'transparency' and bad ideas that we'll all pay for dearly later on?

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"But this administration has taken that to new levels. "

That is just rabid tea party talk. This administration has not done anything nearly as crazy as railroad people into a war with invisible WMDs. Seriously. People talk on and on about how Obama does this and that, but people on the left are ranking on him for not doing enough.

Obama has suspended democracy? That is absurd.

Pelosi, Reid and Obama have not pushed through jack, and that is the problem.

You know, one reason why the Tea Party has jumped the shark is that it is not just anger. It is irrational anger, so that when the anger dissipates, there will not be anything left to hang a party on. No platform. no cohesion. No reason.

Non sequitur alert: O'Donnell's dad was Bozo the Clown. Oh man. No joke. I just found out. Did everyone know this? THE Bozo himself. This explains everything.

Last thing to say tonight to all the libs. No matter what the results might be, we have a week to go and I think that the results are going to be a lot better for Dems and worse for the TP and GOP than anyone posting here thinks they will be. At the end of the day, who wants to trade places with the TP and GOP? They have no agenda, no organization, no platform, no ideas. Just a bunch of clowns bankrolled by Wall Street trying to get in any old way they can. From New York to Cal., the "leads" of these candidates are shrinking with every news cycle.

I think Jon Stewart is going to push the Dems over the top in a lot of races. Crazy? Is it crazier than witchcraft and Bozo the clown?

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Assuming I'm a Tea Party supporter is a mistake and an untruth, but liberals are good at over-generalizations. I'm just pointing out what it seems people are tired of, whether you agree with the summations or not. The election, and time will tell what the American people think of it all. I'm just saying that having lived through several democratic administrations - Carter a horror, I liked Bill Clinton and think he did just fine - I have never seen a President as seemingly angry, vindictive, secretive, defensive and arrogant as this one. We've had much misguided foolishness from many Presidents on both sides, as well as flashes of brilliance. It says mountains when folks on both sides are showing unhappiness with this administration. Interpret as you will, we shall see soon enough.

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If Obama creates a true conservative movement in America (I'm not talking about RINO's), then his presidency will have been worth it.

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Why do you think I live in Japan?

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You're not a bit biased and closed-minded are you? It's funny because a few generations ago the ultra-conservatives were calling the 'radical hippies' anarchists, and now you use the term in reverse. Seems anyone that doesn't agree with the current status-quo is an anarchist. Interesting.

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Democrat Sestak is going to beat Repub. Toomey in PA.

Feingold has caught up to his (R) opponent in WI and is on a pace to forge ahead.

The Republicans will likely win the House, but only by enough of a margin where they'll have to work with Democrats -- or get blamed for their failure of not getting anything done. This may well turn out to be a big plus for President Obama in 2012.

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If Obama were not Black, would so many American voters be so much in a hurry to get him out of office??

Some of the senior members of his own party (Geraldine Ferrarro, Joe Biden, Harry Reid) basically said or intimated that were he white he never would have gotten beyond state senator.

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Looks like Blumenthal, the CT Dem is going to whip wrestling mama, as her campaign has put the state into a sleeper hold.

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Tiger. It is great to hear that you are a Bozo analyst. I have long liked the bozo logo for its vivid colors and smiling clownishness.

I just find it amazing that nobody has made anything of this. This is the first I have heard of it. And I just want to clarify, you think it is interesting because he did not shovel garbage or drive a cab, but he was Bozo? I think we agree there.

Another O'Don fact. She studied Japanese for a short time. A very short time.

Well, it looks like she is getting thrown under the bus. If you were angry before, just wait until after the election. Your Tea Party elected people will become just the same old GOP and all that anger will disappear in a cloud of co-optation. The GOP will take the spoils after all of the Tea Party heavy lifting. Enjoy watching your movement get decapitated, Tea Party.

I hereby coin the term Tea Party in name only: TPINO. A TP member who forgets his constituency and gets into bed with Wall Street GOP. It will be getting a lot of press soon. Watch for it.

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If the gov't directs the mergers, underwrites the buyouts and finds creative means of extorting corporate funding (ala Rahm Emmanuel - 'Nice car dealership you have there, shame if something should happen to it') well then, yes.But that is far closer to what Obama and the new left in America have done and seek to do, not the Republicans. Try again?

MisterCreosote--Sigh! A thousand times sigh! The demos are simply continuing (and HAVE BEEN since Clinton) Republican policy. Like mergers and corporate bailouts EACH year did not occur under George Bush and his pappy. His pappy bragged out buying the election. His pappy tried to stop more free enterprise and deregulation about the cable industry as those donations from the big cable companies meant more ads. Try again? Seriously now! What were those Bush deficits all about EACH year? Welfare for poor people? Nah. Welfare and money for corporations like Halliburton and Blackwater.

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Carter a horror, I liked Bill Clinton and think he did just fine - I have never seen a President as seemingly angry, vindictive, secretive, defensive and arrogant as this one.

Tiger Moth! Why was Carter a h-o-r-r-o-r? Was it the cap on speed limits that ended up saving us billions of gallons of gas that we did not have to import which helped the balance of payments and NOT supporting Arab governments? Was it the Peace initiative between Egypt and Israel that he facilitated? Was it his emphasis on....human rights. So, what was the horror? As for Obama, all he is, is a toy for the replublicans. Notice how he is protecting don't ask, don't tell which is against his campaign promise. As for Obama being angry? When? When? Never seen any emotion out of the man and having him please the republicans.

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Another O'Don fact. She studied Japanese for a short time. A very short time.

That might actually be a point in her favor. Not a person who bangs her head against the wall for years and years like yours truly. And the Bozo the clown thing. Is that how she manages to live with no income? Is there a huge Bozo estate she has inherited, like the Hugh Grant character in About a Boy who lived off the Xmas song royalties?

I will second TheRat's comments. Just as any comment here asking for examples of GOP policies to improve the situation go unanswered, every variation of "Obama is a radical left-wing socialist out to destroy America" posted here is always evidence free. That is because the evidence shows otherwise. It shows that Obama is just another neo-liberal corporatist who has simply continued all Republican policies already in place and protected all those in the military/banking /corporate class who caused the mess in the first place. But what about OBAMACARE??? Yeah right, passing the Republican plan to deliver millions of new captive customers to the health care rackets is really radical. But the SPENDING, the DEFICIT!!!! Please try to pay attention kids. The spending and the deficit is not socialism, it is because economic collapse has led to loss of revenue and an intentional transfer of wealth to the financial elite to cover their losses. And Obama has just stood by and given his approval.

So in the end, if Obama and the Democrats are not going to do anything, then it is probably best to let the Republicans and the reality-challenged have a go. Give 'em enough rope, let them hang themselves.

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The Bozo factor hardly hurts ODonnell. I mean, when you look at the maniacal grinner and self-admitted Marxist Chris Coons, with his shiny bald head and wild tufts of hair shooting out on the sides, who ya gonna think of?

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"Please, try to bring a real argument. You are boring me."

Then maybe I need to draw some colorful pictures so the Right wing can understand a little better.

No one has said fascism must comply fully with the German or Italian models. Elements of fascism are clearly present in the thinking of a group who wish to restrict rights to a narrow definition of Americans. And they try to win over the sheepish masses by arguing against big government, when that is precisely what most working class people need to address their greatest problems.

Big money says "small goverment=good" because they want free reign to exploit everything they need to make more money. It is an delussion that that those profits result in ordinary Americans having new jobs. More likely it means a few more low paying jobs in Bangladesh and more money in the pockets of people who already have enough.

Working people end up with no health care, no access to higher eduction so that their children are doomed to the same economic plight, no investment in community and nothing to show for their votes but the pride of having a smaller government.

It is absolute propaganda and lies that the T-party agenda will help working people have better lives. It won't, it can't and none of you who support this madness can even define how it will help. You can play the "Values" card, but where are your economic platform details? None of you have offered anything tangible. Nothing!

And that is precisely why the T-party is no better than fascism. Their only hope of delivering their promises will be repression. They have to foster hate and division or they have nothing to talk about. In two years we will be having a discussion about the pendulum swinging back the other way because the T-party had no plan at all. Or, we will be looking at a right wing movement that has great potential for repression against anyone who is not part of their clique.

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...........still waiting........still watching.....still expecting.....but perhaps in vain.......

for.....

some details about how the T-party plan to solve all our problems. The silence is deafening isn't it.

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No slogans please. Only real solid platform planks with real details.

....please....

if you can.

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The T-party is partly based on liberatarianism, which is basically a concept of F- You. You are ON YOUR own. Society is not there to help you, nor is the government. Poor and dying. F- you. Need access to education? F - you. Everything is based on money. No money. F- you. Amazing that anyone is attracted to this, especially the ones who do not have money, as most T parties are really not all that rich.

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TheRat. I grew up in Utah which always votes very GOP/conservative. Yet Utah is filled with working poor who have pathetic conditions and pay, little or no benefits and lots of kids. This demographic should be one that would be in favor of affordable health care, better pay, labor benefits, education opportunities and government involvement in making their lives better.

But instead, these sheep follow blindly anyone who invokes the slogans like "christian values", "family values" or "the American way." They buy into this the same way they get sucked into ordering pizza after a Dominos add. Pure, unadulterated manipulation to the point that they cannot even see that their needs are being sacrificed in favor of the illusory slogans.

Small government means Joe Redneck and his toothless clan of kids can look forward to generations of the same poor conditions. Just enough money to feed the consumption monster and never enough to allow them to escape. As long as they have fast food, TV and religion they seem content to buy into this propaganda and vote against their best interests every single time.

It is sad and a big part of why I left America. I prefer Japan's "Shoganai" head in the sand politics to the self rightous delussions of American right wing politics.

At least the peasants of 19th century France had the good sense to see when they were being screwed and to rise up. American mainstream is too sedated by TV and junk food to think beyond sound bites.

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.......still waiting T-party fans. You all shut up as soon as anyone asks you to lay out your plan. Why? Because you don't have one beyond shaking things up.

In the long run this may ruin the right for good. So perhaps there is a silver lining here afterall.

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...still waiting T-party fans.

We'll let you wait. It'll just add to our pleasure.

Why is Palin smiling? She can see November from her house, the Dems misunderestimated the Tea Party, and the Hopey Changey agenda is soon to be refudiated.

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Christine ODonnell's opponent is hearing footsteps. And in his fear he is turning to the right - -

" Chris Coons changed his previous position on the Bush era tax cuts this morning telling me that he would support extending all of the Bush era tax cuts for everyone for ’several years.’ " from the blog of George Stephanopoulos

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Tim, you are making me wait because you don't know. You know nothing about how your party expects to solve problems. You are following their sound bites like a sheep following a shepherd. They could lead you straight to slaughter and you'd smile the whole way there.

Show us the money brother! Show us how the T-party plan to solve all our problems.

You don't know do you!?!

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....still waiting. Don't have a clue how to answer do you?

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"misunderestimated" ....????? what language is this?

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misunderestimated, as in Bushism...

That is a scary mistake to make...

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Maybe Tim is the "decider" for new words to be added to English.

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Show us the money brother! Show us how the T-party plan to solve all our problems.You don't know do you!?!

Hate to break it to ya tkoind2, but most Americans know the tea party is hardly monolithic. Conservatives, Libertarians, independents ,disgruntled Dems and disgruntled Repubs make up the movement, from what I can tell. I have come across articles insisting that the first tea parties were Repubs putting RINOs on notice. Why does the authoritarian Left find self-organizing movements like this so terrifying? You know, in your thinking you are closer to beltway RINO Repubs than any group I can think of.

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Didn't say they are monolithic. But they are a party with an agenda for change. Right? So what is that agenda? What is their plan.

You seem content to avoid the question in any way you can. But I won't be diverted friend. I want to know what platform plans makes this party the right answer for America today. what will they do to sort our problems.

Why is this so hard for you? Stop running away from the question and post some logical and honest answers. Can you do that Tim, can you?

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tkoind2 - look, I understand you are angry and frustrated and in your anger you lash out at anyone you imagine is connected with the 'tea party' movement. And if you could just best one of their supporters here you could face the impending debacle with your self-respect somewhat intact but I have to tell you that like you I am in Japan. Have been for ages. But that doesn't really change my relationship with the movement. Know why? Because I don't speak for them so much as I feel they speak for me.

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Tim, I am not angry. I am asking you a simple question. Tell us why your party is the right choice.

I am not here to "best" anyone. I sincerely want the supporters of this party to have the good decency to tell the people on this site why their party is the right solution for America's problems.

I don't understand why that is so hard for the dozen or so of you on this site to respond to. If you feel the party speaks for you, then why can't you express what it is they are saying that you feel offers the right solutions for America? If they speak for you, why can't you express that?

I don't want to beat you in a debate friend. I want to understand from a supporter's point of view what this party intends to do for America. I am not interested in google's answers or the media. I want to hear from the horses mouth. What does an American who supports this movement understand to be the plan of the T-party and how will that plan improve the situation in America.

Now have some courage friend and tell it to us straight. Or get one of our team to do so.

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I sincerely want the supporters of this party to have the good decency to tell the people on this site why their party is the right solution for America's problems.

I can't speak for a mix of independents, conservative and disgruntled Dems. I agree with their conviction that spending is way out of control and I like the provision I have seen discussed which stipulates any Republican 'tea party candidate' who goes to DC but immediately settles for business as usual, this-trough-is-big-enough-for-all-to-belly-up-to should face recall. I would hope Democrats demand similar provisions if and when they can organize a similar movement.

I don't want to beat you in a debate friend.

That hasn't happened yet.

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Tim. Ok one step closer to the line. Thank you.

Now. So far you are still telling me abstract principles. "spending is way out of control." Ok. Be more specific. What spending is out of control? How will the T-party curtail spending? And how will this impact the American people who are in need of jobs, education and economic stability?

Tell me how the T-party plans to avoid falling into business as usual once they are in office. What is their plan? How will they leverage through legislation? What will that legislation call for? And how will it benefit American's who need jobs etc...?

I still don't hear anything tangible in these posts. You still are not talking about specific policy plans to address the problems.

That is all I am asking you for.

As for defeating you in a debate, we should take a poll on that one. :)

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One more thing Tim. If you really believe in this movement, there must be something that you expect them to do once they gain office. List those things here and tell me what the T-party have offered as solutions.

I sincerely want to understand why you support them. Not just sound bites though. I want to really understand what you, as a supporter, expect them to do to solve these problems. What have they promised to do?

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Tim, sorry friend but you have clearly abandoned the debate and run away from offering anything real here to discuss.

You should sincerely question a party that has not definitive policy proposals. You should worry about leaders who foster blame and fear without equally offering tangible, solutions that can withstand a little debate.

The T-party is the latest in a long line of American reactionary movements. Devoid of substance and incapable of doing anything substantial for the American people.

In truth our country needs a new movement in politics. But it must be a movement of inclusion. Only cooperation will help resolve problems. We have to stop pointing fingers for a while and acknowledge that many of our problems will not disappear over night. They will take time and concerted energy to resolve. In the mean time we need government to intervene to help people get buy until long term solutions are in place.

This is the true humanitarian, christian and American thing to do. It isn't charity, it is unity. It means a little sacrifice from everyone and little support for those who need it.

The problems are real. People need jobs. They need health care and they need better community conditions. That costs money, but that social investment can generate business, lead to tax income for cities and the nation and help raise our society out of the slumps.

Call me socialist, call me communist if you like. I am interested above all in the well being of fellow human beings regardless of their race or relgion. That should be our main priority. Because in the future a healthier nation will be more affordable. A working nation will be stronger. And and educated people will be more capable of competing globally and carrying forward the country.

Enact health care for all Americans. Provide education for everyone. Clean up and improve our infrastructure in a New New Deal to create jobs and put people back to work. Prioritize schools and community projects. And put the masses of working people first.

Sure this means more government involvement, but it is what is necessary to carry the US forward. This non-sense about small goverment is an 19th century hold over that along with guns needs to be relegated to the past. A smart, well run government that benefits the people and makes our country more competitive and strong is the answer.

I think I have laid out more tangible policies in this post than I have seen in all the pro T-party posts in every thread here.

Your turn friends.

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Maybe tkoind2, Tim needs a format, a list to help him out. OK, Tim, fill in the blanks here of specifically what cuts this here T-BAG party want to do to balance the budget.

1. 2. 3. 4.

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tkoind2

I agree. People have short memories and quickly get bored. There is no way Obama and his team could turn around the USA in just one term. It is a long-term commitment and it is obvious that more time is needed. The Democrats have made serious inroads into getting healthcare for all Americans, they have openly said they are willing to engage with all countries (even Iran, North Korea and Cuba) and they have gotten Russia to agree to mutual reductions in nuclear weapon stockpiles. These are very big issues and deserve credit. Job creation and boosted exports are the next steps to help the economy slowly recover and there are no quick fixes. Slow and steady is the key. Although not mentioned in this article, if Palin ever becomes President....., it will be a very sad day for the USA and the rest of the world.

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Klein2, again I'm not a Tea Party member nor really even a supporter. I do think that it's interesting and see it as a good thing that in a free democratic society we can have a group of dissatisfied citizens start such a thing - and I'd think equally so if it were a party started by angry liberals. It seems the dems on here want to label them anarchists simply because they disagree with the current administration, and wish to do so by forming their own party. I thought that's what democracy was all about. There is no law that states it must be a two party system, and when the two parties in question have both acted in such a disgraceful manner, its good to remind them of such a thing.

My Bozo post was deleted, so I'll make no more mention. I suppose it's a 'Bozo no-no' to do such a thing.

Tiger Moth! Why was Carter a h-o-r-r-o-r? Was it the cap on speed limits that ended up saving us billions of gallons of gas that we did not have to import which helped the balance of payments and NOT supporting Arab governments? Was it the Peace initiative between Egypt and Israel that he facilitated? Was it his emphasis on....human rights. So, what was the horror?

No Rat, it was essentially his abysmal handling of the economy in general and his spineless ability to stand up to aggression against our country that makes me loathe Carter and his administration. Are you old enough to remember and have lived through the Carter term? My father, my best friend's father and a lot of other folks I knew lost their jobs for the first and only time under the great Carter administration. It's quite easy (and often done) to paint a rosy picture well after the fact, but most I know who lived through it agree quite strongly with my sentiments. Yes, he accomplished some good things, but over-all it sucked. Off topic, but answering your question.

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No one has said fascism must comply fully with the German or Italian models. Elements of fascism are clearly present in the thinking of a group who wish to restrict rights to a narrow definition of Americans. And they try to win over the sheepish masses by arguing against big government, when that is precisely what most working class people need to address their greatest problems.

Big money says "small goverment=good" because they want free reign to exploit everything they need to make more money. It is an delussion that that those profits result in ordinary Americans having new jobs. More likely it means a few more low paying jobs in Bangladesh and more money in the pockets of people who already have enough.

Working people end up with no health care, no access to higher eduction so that their children are doomed to the same economic plight, no investment in community and nothing to show for their votes but the pride of having a smaller government.

But there you go into liberal fallacy and the inability to separate the 'working class' from the welfare entitlement class - and before you label me as the typical Republican monster who doesn't care about our huddled masses, let me explain.

You indicate that the working class have no means to rise above their situations, and that 'big money' as you call it just lines the pockets of the already wealthy by creating low paying jobs at best. But think about that a minute. How many of us on here are university educated, or at the very least completed secondary school, got some type of degree and are doing at least well enough to be sitting here typing away on our computers? Most all. How many of us have rich parents? My bet is very few - speaking for myself, my parents went from blue collar not having much of anything to middle class through a lifetime of work. I was the first in the immediate family to go to college and get a decent job. Many of you likely have similar stories. The point is that many of us are on a 'stepped platform' if you will of doing a bit better than our parents, and our kids will hopefully do better than us.

That used to be called the American Dream and what people aspired to do. Through the liberal plan, people are handed money and given help for doing relatively nothing to better their situations. Essentially you want to create a dependent welfare state by providing enough programs that everyone is given what they need, whether they work for it or not. You say the working class cannot get ahead. I say the working class can and often do get ahead - through hard work. The welfare/entitlement class does not. These are the folks that expect the handout, that booze it up and drug it up and look for that monthly check. They blame it on the system, the man, big money. But where does human responsibility come into the equation?

You will never agree with that of course, and point out that the sins of the father should not disqualify the son. Yes, it's a perpetuated cycle because the parents pass it along to the children, who then become part of the welfare/entitlement class and system. Free health care; free education; free food, clothing and housing. A never ending cycle of despair that can very easily be blamed on corporate greed and the supposed 'angry, racist republicans'. Why? Because we have the same expectations of our fellow man that we have for ourselves? Because we don't feel it's fair or beneficial to grow big government to tax us to death to pay for everyone else because this big government deems them more worthy of my money than my own family?

Do I feel bad for the seven year old without a proper coat way too late on a school night? Sure I do. Mom's walking behind with a pack of smokes, which at today's prices could easily buy a coat if she didn't smoke for a week. It's a parental choice - it's a human choice. We all make them. Some make very poor decisions - and yes it is likely based on the fact of their upbringing - they know not what they do. That isn't the fault of 'big money'. Maybe these folks can only get those low paying jobs because they aren't educated enough to get a better one. And likely they aren't educated enough because they thought it more important to smoke weed and hang out on the corner with their friends rather than study and try to make something of themselves. Likely it's because mom and dad were much the same way and didn't give enough of a crap to give them a chance. Pouring money into that doesn't end the cycle or the problem, conversely it seems to perpetuate the issue because the recipients realize they can get 'free stuff' and opt for the easy way out.

I realize I'm over-generalizing and stereotyping to a degree. But there is truth to most all stereotypes. I see it everyday in my kid's schools and in my community.

You call it Fascism. I don't think there's a desire to restrict anything. Do you really think it's fascist to expect people to work towards things (learn English/proper grammar, get a job, go to said job, save money, stop buying smokes and video games, take responsibility for your life and the lives of your children) rather than be handed them at the expense of those who do truly work and strive?

Moderator: Back on topic please.

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tkoind2: You should sincerely question a party that has not definitive policy proposals.

You aren't seeing a lack of effective policy from both parties? I'm a Democrat, but let's not forget that entire reason why Republicans, even with their nutty candidates, even have a shot is because a good chuck of the people have lost faith in the Democrat's ability to create policy and lead. We were told the unemployment numbers would go down due to government action and that simply hasn't happened and Obama hasn't really come up with anything new.

I'm all for some of what Obama has done, especially the health care plan, but we're 2 years into this financial mess and it's like the Democrats are just now starting to realize that they were actually supposed to do something about it. Did it sneak up on them or something? They were so proud that they took control of the government that they actually forgot that people were expecting them to actually do something.

The only silver lining is that I think the problems will extend beyond 2 years and during that time Republicans will fall flat on their face as well. And they have a chance to fall flat with some pretty nutty candidates which will be a nice double-whammy. But at some point the Democrats are going to have to actually earn the trust of Americans because right now they seem to be just an inept as Republicans. The difference is that the Democrats haven't been able to sell themselves as a party since Clinton.

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it was essentially his abysmal handling of the economy in general and his spineless ability to stand up to aggression against our country that makes me loathe Carter and his administration. Are you old enough to remember and have lived through the Carter term?

How did that economy get so lousy in the first place-oh, it was the stagflation and recession he inherited from Nixon from a decade of war spending. Pretty much like what will happen/is happening today. And what should he had done? Nuke Iran? If I remember, correctly, Reagan actually made a deal to keep the hostages there until he took oath, which the Ayatollah was more than happy to do as he despised Carter. And wasn't Reagan who made the arms for hostage deal? Wasn't that TREASON? It is easy to blame Democratic presidents for cleaning up a mess, but it takes intelligence for placing the blame for the mess.

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The problems are real. People need jobs. They need health care and they need better community conditions. That costs money, but that social investment can generate business, lead to tax income for cities and the nation and help raise our society out of the slumps.

Obama admitted there never were any shovel-ready jobs. He admitted he lied to the nation.

Health care? If what the Dems forced on us is so grand why is it you can't find a single prominent Democrat on the campaign trail taking credit for having supported the bill? How can tkoind2 convince us libertarians and independents when Democrat candidates aren't even trying?

"Social investment"? This is another vague term progressives like to throw around. Look what Democrats have done to DC and Detroit and California, all beneficiaries of massive "social investment" by the Democrats who have ruled these places for decades now.

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Friday 22 Oct

"SEIU Offshoot Mi Familia Vota Caught With 6,000 Bogus Colorado Voter Registrations"

That, of course, is just one case in one state.

Democrats aren't going to go down without their usual tricks...

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"SEIU Offshoot Mi Familia Vota Caught With 6,000 Bogus Colorado Voter Registrations"

Of course, this is the way liars would present the story.

In actuality, the 6,000 registered voters were purged after a controversial and error-prone procedure -- called the "20-day rule." There isn't any evidence beyond a returned postal mailer -- and we all know neither the government nor the post office ever makes mistakes.

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Yahoo headline today

"In Wash., illegal immigrants canvassing for votes"

Story reveals they are of course supporting Democrat candidates.

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@TimRussert

Obama admitted there never were any shovel-ready jobs. He admitted he lied to the nation. Health care? If what the Dems forced on us is so grand why is it you can't find a single prominent Democrat on the campaign trail taking credit for having supported the bill? How can tkoind2 convince us libertarians and independents when Democrat candidates aren't even trying? "Social investment"? This is another vague term progressives like to throw around. Look what Democrats have done to DC and Detroit and California, all beneficiaries of massive "social investment" by the Democrats who have ruled these places for decades now.

Absolutely correct! No Democrat wants to take either credit nor touch the issue with a 10ft. pole. You even have Clinton on the voting trail campaigning for the candidates and why is that? Because they are all trying to keep as much distance from the President as possible because "guilt just by association." As a Californian being born and raised there. I can recall a time when you could go the Frisco and the city was clean, safe and beautiful, but for the last 20 years the Liberals and their social Entitlement programs drained California and ruined it. Nowadays you go to Frisco and it looks like some 3rd world country. When I hear "Social investment" excuse me for not getting a tingling sensation up my leg! Amazing California used to have the 7th largest economy in the world. Now, Arnold asks Washington for a bailout, they are trying to legalize Marijuana to bring in some revenue (not that it is that bad of an idea) but this is where we're at, at the moment. Liberals have destroyed NOT only California, DC and Detroit, but also New York. So obviously what the Dems and Liberals have been doing in these states has not worked. Withe the expansion of big government all that it's created was big out of control debt!

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The Obama - Pelosi economic "plan" resulted in a cumulative 7.5 million jobs deficit.

November 2 we take our country back.

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November 2 we take our country back.

And this time, what? Really Kill it! Come on Tim. Basically, the belt has to be tightened. People have to start suffering. The question is: who suffers? You republicans really are the war party, so the military industrial complex isn't getting cut, what is? List it out tim and you others.

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A compassionate conservative. Does it exist? That is what I hope the people in power do, be it Democrats or Republicans. Can hardly tell the difference between the two. I think that we should just get some good hearted older people in there that just make good decisions because they are just good. By the way, that is a definition of a Christian regardless of religion.

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This is just a side show circus. Because the 8 years the Republicans did have in office didn't like, you know, put us in this situation in the first place.

Angry conservatives are angry cause their party isn't in power anymore. Yawn.

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I agree. People have short memories and quickly get bored. There is no way Obama and his team could turn around the USA in just one term. It is a long-term commitment and it is obvious that more time is needed. The Democrats have made serious inroads into getting healthcare for all Americans, they have openly said they are willing to engage with all countries (even Iran, North Korea and Cuba) and they have gotten Russia to agree to mutual reductions in nuclear weapon stockpiles. These are very big issues and deserve credit. Job creation and boosted exports are the next steps to help the economy slowly recover and there are no quick fixes. Slow and steady is the key. Although not mentioned in this article, if Palin ever becomes President....., it will be a very sad day for the USA and the rest of the world.

IA so much

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The "first black president" feel good hype wore off pretty quick. I hope all them whites go that "white guilt" out of their systems and we can get on with business.

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Polls of 1500 people are significant, but slight changes in wording often show remarkably different results. Another poll, maybe even by the same group (not sure) showed that both Republicans and Democrats are disliked equally. Why don't we just wait for the election?

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The headline might explain why the bottom is dropping out of the dollar.

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L4dymercury

This is just a side show circus. Because the 8 years the Republicans did have in office didn't like, you know, put us in this situation in the first place. Angry conservatives are angry cause their party isn't in power anymore. Yawn.

Well, the Republicans did screw up and one of the reasons is because they started to stray from their basic principals and Bush "Was" a huge spender no doubt and they deserved to lose the White House, but Obama, his majesty was supposed to fix all that, get it under control and yet, he not only added to the deficit, but tripled it! Now that the Dems control all three branches of government with record unemployment and no insight of any it stopping soon. You think the Dems and Liberals are far better and have done a better job than the conservatives??? Obama and the Democrats have done far worse in 18 months than Bush did in 8 years, not to mention under Bush the unemployment didn't exceed past 4.5% and Obama it's almost 10% and in some areas more. When you say angry, the people that are Really angry are the everyday average Americans, regardless of party affiliation are tired that this President thinks that he knows what's good for us. This is the real reason for the anger. This man has absolutely no clue on how to properly govern. Obama had the potential right after he was sworn in office to try to create jobs, his popularity was through the roof, but his far-left socialist agendas and his vision of remaking America drove him off track! He was elected and campaigned to stop the war in Iraq and to create jobs, but that was the NOT the first priority for him. Healthcare was the most important thing for him to pass regardless if people have a roof over their head or if they can eat or night. So the question is; Are the Republicans up to the job? Who knows, but this time around, I do believe that Reps and Conservatives can stop this country from hemorrhaging even more.

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Well, the Republicans did screw up and one of the reasons is because they started to stray from their basic principals and Bush "Was" a huge spender no doubt and they deserved to lose the White House,

LOL. Too FUNNY!! When,WHEN, has the republicans EVER adherred to their Principles. Even during Eisenhower, the government grew. Under Reagan, the government grew as did the deficit, which was the ONE issue he got elected for. Under the Bushes, it was a whoring out to every corporation in exchange for their money and support for their re-elections. You right-wingers live in an Ann Rand dream that was only in her crazy head. The idea that corporations can only do stuff (like Enron, AIG, etc, etc, etc) and government can not still strikes me as really funny.

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Who knows, but this time around, I do believe that Reps and Conservatives can stop this country from hemorrhaging even more.

You really are out in looney land--the problem here, as I said before, it is time to live within our means, so do the rich suffer, or is this all done on the back of the poor? Just asking! Because----the military industrial complex that RULES America, ain't EVER getting cut back. Not under Obama or any of the Democrats and certainly not under the Repubs.

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The headline might explain why the bottom is dropping out of the dollar.

Another Democrat too young to remember Carter, and then the turnaround under Reagan.

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Rat, no need for personal attacks! Yes, we do need to live within our means, but it doesn't help to have a President that is spending us into oblivion! So what are you saying? You wish for a equal utopia where everyone is the same. Fact check: it will never happen. There will always be rich and poor and you will never eradicate it, never. Is there a country on the face of this blue planet where you have a society that is equal in every single way? I think not! Is it me or is it that Liberals always, always think that the way they run government is the ONLY way and the greatest thing since the Twinkie was invented. Carter, if you are old enough to remember him screwed and I mean, really screwed things up so bad and now Obama and you think the Republicans would do worse at this time and point. Talk about Loonyville....

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"you republicans really are the war party"

Really? Then what's up with all those Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, who voted to authorize the invasion of Iraq?

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Exactly, even Pelosi voted for the authorization for the invasion except for Obama who voted against it, who also was against the Surge initially.

So please tell me, what does the Democratic party stand for?

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Another Democrat too young to remember Carter, and then the turnaround under Reagan.

But not too young to remember the dollar's great strength under Clinton before the Republicans gained the White House and GW Bush instituted his "strong dollar policy." Wrong-rudder Rudy was wrong again -- and the dollar is still falling.

(In 2002-2003, it took just under one dollar to buy a Euro and Canadian dollar was worth about 70 US cents. By 2007, it took about 1.50 for a single Euro and the Canadian dollar reached par. That's some pretty awesomely bad performance.)

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Exactly, even Pelosi voted for the authorization for the invasion except for Obama who voted against it, who also was against the Surge initially. So please tell me, what does the Democratic party stand for?

Obama could not have voted against the authorization since he wasn't in Congress at that time.

The question about what the Democratic Party stands for can best be answered by posing a second question: Why are so many intelligent, honest, thoughtful people of goodwill drawn more to the Democratic Party than the Republicans?

First of all, in your own admission that the Republican party "strayed from its principles," this was no great surprise to those of us who knew all along that the only principle that means anything to Republicans is power -- and they'll do anything to attain it and keep it. All other principles get flushed down the drain.

Those who believe that the purpose of living is to get all you can for yourself regardless of the impact on society and the planet will be drawn to the conservative side. Those who believe that we live in an interdependent community that has to work out its problems peacefully and, in a great many cases, through our local, state and federal governments -- seeing government as a force for good in human relations -- will gravitate towards the liberal viewpoint.

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"Obama could not have voted against the authorization since he wasn't in Congress at that time"

This is correct, Obama was still just a state senator, but he did voice his opposition to the liberation of Iraq.

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Why are so many intelligent, honest, thoughtful people of goodwill drawn more to the Democratic Party than the Republicans?

Barney Frank, John Cusack, George Soros, Stephanie Miller, Al Franken, Michael Bloomberg (acts like a liberal in so many ways) everyone at NPR, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon, George Clooney, Dixie Chicks, Lady Ga Ga, Michael Moore...trying to think of some more great names of thoughtful people.... Yes, you are right. These people are so thoughtful, intelligent and possess goodwill, as to why anyone "wouldn't" want to join the Democratic party with people like them is way beyond me! lol

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bass4funk - You forgot Barbra Streisand.

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Those who believe that the purpose of living is to get all you can for yourself regardless of the impact on society and the planet will be drawn to the conservative side.

That one is so easily debunked. Just look at the well documented habits of conservatives when it comes to charity. They are far more generous than 'liberals.'

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@Sarge-My bad, thanks! I sure did forget her.

@MisterCreosote- How many Liberals do you know that will part with money??? They are trying to take as much of it as possible. Ahh, yes....they do give things such as big government, massive entitlements, high taxes and eternal dependency. In that case, that would be considered generous.

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Why are so many intelligent, honest, thoughtful people of goodwill drawn more to the Democratic Party than the Republicans?

The US prison population is overwhelmingly "Democrat". That's why John Kerry and Hillary sponsored an unconstitutional bill trying to overturn states' rights to decide on giving felons the vote and make it a federal issue they could impose on the entire nation. You sure you really want to go there?

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Most of us said before Obama was elected that the bush cabal had screwed things up so badly there was no way the Dems could fix it right out and the Repubs would make grounds again,

No you didn't smith, almost all of you guys claimed the republican party was finished and that the party would never return to power again because of the disaster that Bush was.

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Really?!? Did you expect eight years of mess to be cleared up with the snap of a finger? Real change takes real time people.

The problem tkoind2 is that Americans want to see some progress, some results, they don't expect eight years to be cleared up in two but they want to see something and that something has not materialized yet.

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Job creation and boosted exports are the next steps to help the economy slowly recover and there are no quick fixes.

Agreed there are no quick fixes but why would you want a slow and steady recovery, shouldn't the government be doing every thing it can to speed up the recovery to get the economic GDP growth rate up to around 3-5%?

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Barney Frank, John Cusack, George Soros, Stephanie Miller, Al Franken, Michael Bloomberg (acts like a liberal in so many ways) everyone at NPR, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon, George Clooney, Dixie Chicks, Lady Ga Ga....

Thank you for proving my point.

Throwing out a bunch of names without any discernment or thoughtfulness as to whether those folks consider themselves liberals -- and most of them don't -- is precisely what I'm talking about.

This is not to reject the entire list. Michael Bloomberg, for example, is someone who exemplifies pragmatic liberalism. Barney Frank is quite a good example too. But Lady GaGa?

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Just look at the well documented habits of conservatives when it comes to charity. They are far more generous than 'liberals.'

Two points in response: First, there is no documented evidence that shows conservatives as being more generous than liberals. (Not unless, of course, the evidence comes from conservatives.)

Second, if there wasn't a tax write-off involved, conservatives would give far less than what little they give today.

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Power? Which party wants term limits ?

You mean which party talks the talk about term limits but fails to do anything about it when they have both houses of Congress and the White House. Yes, friends, that would be the Republicans. Failing to live up to their stated "values" yet again.

LOL!

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How many Liberals do you know that will part with money???

You mentioned George Soros, I believe. He's given away many millions.

I'll add Bill Gates to the list. He's all for increased taxation of the rich, as is Warren Buffett.

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Carter, if you are old enough to remember him screwed and I mean, really screwed things up so bad and now Obama and you think the Republicans would do worse at this time and point. Talk about Loonyville....

Loonyville is selective memory. Having WATCHED the Vietnam war drag on and on, under a Republican, unpaid for, (NEVER raise taxes, you know), the result, (punishment) was stagflation. A very serious economic situation that takes years to get through. Carter inherited that mess, just like Obama. LIke I said, it takes INTELLIGENCE to find out WHO created the mess, instead of blaming someone who is cleaning up the mess.

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I thought George W. Bush and his "War Presidency" made him the worst Chief Executive since Jimmy Carter. Now I've decided to replace Bush with Obama and his failed state capitalism.

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@Rat, funny...I never heard Reagan chastise Carter for the mess he put the country through! And I never heard Bush go after Clinton after the last year of his administration when the economy tanked and other issues too long to get into.

@yabit

Throwing out a bunch of names without any discernment or thoughtfulness as to whether those folks consider themselves liberals -- and most of them don't -- is precisely what I'm talking about. This is not to reject the entire list. Michael Bloomberg, for example, is someone who exemplifies pragmatic liberalism. Barney Frank is quite a good example too. But Lady GaGa?

Oh, now we're calling it selective "discernment?" I see. Maybe you're right, bellowing out that you are a Liberal these days, especially in Hollyweird will only get you respect by other liberal loons, but for the average folk? Of course they are ALL liberal, well at least the talkative ones! These people are so out of touch with mainstream America. Bloomberg-"pragmatic Liberalism" is that what they are calling it now? Barney Frank, please don't get me started. I'll be writing all day on that one, don't have the time. Lady Ga Ga, this is the result of what happens when you breed Madonna and Pelosi. You can't get much worse than that.

As for Mr.Soros of course he's given Millions of dollars away, let's start with NPR, Think Progress, MoveON, that defunked AirAmerica just to name a few and all for what? Desperately trying to spread radical Progressive views? Yeah it worked to years ago, with Obama, got the young and Blacks and Latinos out in heavy numbers to vote and he won. 18 months later, what has all that hope and change done for the country? Do you honestly think most Americans want to hear about this admin. blame Bush or Republicans or play the race card (constantly) why is that Liberals think that most Americans are out of touch or simply we all should be quiet, eat tofu and listen to his majesty because he knows what's in our best interest?! I'm not even White, but as a non-white person I can see what's in play here. For the record: No one is out to get Obama, MOST people don't care about his color. MOST people DO like him or at least respect him as a person. But his radical policies are totally, totally without a shadow of doubt, destroying America and if you Liberals can't see that or want to live in denial and keep your head in the sand, so be it, but on Nov. 2nd you guys are going to get hit with a Tsunami! Ice cold to be exact! And that will wake you guys up and maybe then reality will start to kick in as to how the majority of Americans feel. People want to work, take care of their families and not have to worry about their financial future! I can surely see that "desperation" is at an all time high and Obama and all the Dems and Liberals scurrying like cockroaches whining and blaming whoever they can, hopefully, you guys will except personal accountability, but I'm not holding my breath.

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bass4funk. Like I have said to Tim and many others here, it is easy to point fingers and to quote slogans. But it is a hell of a lot harder to offer any real solutions. Nothing in your posts suggests any solutions. Why not? Answer, because you don't have any.

The problems are complex and the entire political system for decades is responsible for why we are where we are today. It isn't the minute differences between the GOP and DEM, both serve the same masters of industry and influence. Getting caught up in this finger pointing nonsense just removes attention from the real problems. In fact it matters very little to the average working family if either party is in power with both fail to solve the problems.

It is time for a much more radical approach. First of all this outdated notion of small government needs to go. Working people need health care, education, access to college for their kids, training for new jobs, community projects to address failing infrastructure and more.

What you need to realize is that government support of the projects, like the great depression's New Deal, will put people to work, stimulate the economy, generate return tax revenue as the GNP grows and will help make America more competive and viable for the future. So in this case, government serves the people.

But you also need a responsive and accountable government, which is what I think you small government people really want. You don't want government dictating to you, you want it representing you. That is only fair. But to do that, it has to be stable enough to make programs work that fix the nation. So we have to support this and stop this two year cycle of bipolar shifting.

I think the right are also afraid of the loss of values. Well, reality is that those values are largely gone. And imposing a right wing government will not restore 1950 to 2010 reality. That does not mean that you cannot have your America of values. DEMS share most of your values already. Many share your religious convictions.

The bottom line on values is this, you need to foster your values in your local community, only then, ONLY THEN, will those values permiate life for you. But you must also accept the differences that a multi-cultural society includes and you must allow others to live with equal protections. You cannot stop this, no government you elect will be able to do so. So quit wasting time here too. Focus on what you and your family really need. Jobs, economic stability and the freedom to live out your lives in peace.

So enough finger pointing, enough blame and enough bipolar propaganda and sound bites. Focus instead on a new vision, where America invests in itself to make ourselves strong and free again.

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The only question, post-election day, is how long before prominent media/entertainment libs start to lecture us on how "lame duck" is actually a dangerous and racist term.

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TimRussert.

What readers on this site are wondering is when will any of you from the pro-Tparty crowd actually list any tangible solutions for us to consider. You make a lot of noise and raise a lot of accusations, but you don't offer any real alternatives beyond catch phrases and slogans.

Where are your party platform planks? What will you do to create jobs? How many jobs? In what sectors of the economy? And when?

What will you do to enable more families to send their kids to college?

What will you to to assure access to health care for the half of Americans who either don't have or have only limited health care? When will you plan take place? How will it effect working people?

What will the T-party do to resolve the war in Afghanistan? When?

What will the T-party do about the failing infrastructure nation wide? What projects do they propose to keep American roads, bridges, schools and public facilities from collapse?

What will the T-party do about income levels? What about helping people to stay in their homes?

You don't offer anything that we can even debate. Which makes be believe that none of you have any idea what this T-party actually offers the American people beyond another empty change.

So let's hear it, I gave you all weekend to post something and you still haven't. Can't you even google something together in three days?

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Can't you even google something together in three days?

You just admitted the info is out there but you are to lazy to search...

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TimRussert. I know all I need to about this little political hiccup you are so excited about.

The point is do you? I have asked you directly a dozen times to tell us why you think they are going to be better for America. If you are an informed and intelligent voter, you should have some means of expressing why you think this party is the right choice.

I have asked you very direct questions that you skirt, avoid and do all you can to escape having to actually answer. In a debate, which is what you are participating in here, one is expected to respond to such challenges with responses that are of some value and weight. You continually fail to do so.

Why are you so afraid to offer up some information Tim? Afterall you are the one advocating a change here. You are the one advocating a party? Yet you have no proven capacity to express why or to lay out any tangible benefits here for this community to read and weigh. Why is that Tim? Are you afraid of the rebutal? Are you afraid you cannot defend your party in a debate?

Do step up or no one will take your spouting seriously. We will, however, greatly respect you for laying out something more substantial.

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One more thing. I have laid out my personal political agenda in some detail here. You have not even attempted to debate those points. I think you can't.

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More deafening silence from the radical right. Too afraid or unable to post any real information about just what the T-party intends to do once they take office. How frightening is it for a country to rabidly vote for a group of people who have offered nothing more than accusations and election slogans as motivations for change? The sheep, blindly following emotional reactions instead of trying to formulate opinions based on fact and sound planning.

Is it any wonder at all that the America political system is in shambles now? Especially when the public care so little about what their leaders can realistically promise and subsequently deliver?

I weep for my country because of the wasted potential. I never hear the right demanding to send their kids to college. When in fact it is this one factor that promises the most for the long term supremacy of America in both business and politics.

I never hear the right demanding health care for the legions of hard working mainstream people who cannot afford health care. Especially when so many families risk losing everything should a single major illness impact their family.

I never hear the right talking about the values of putting people back to work. There is always this unrealistic expectation that business and the markets will automatically step up and hire everyone. When in reality the tax savings and cuts that they receive from conservative governments go to profits and the expansion of the offshore operations. They don't invest at home or hire people.

So is it only the god and values question that really matter to the right? This illusory 1950 thinking of a pure America that actually never existed? One where everyone was white, Christian and straight?

Where are leaders that can offer real solutions for American people. The real American people who are a mix of races, are hard working, practice good social and moral values and have faith in the future of their country. Who represents these people will real solid answers?

Clearly not the T-party whose followers here can offer nothing to even defend why their party should win.

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Looks like someone feels the whole fraudulent "change for America" agenda is in peril.

Good.

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Tim. Still waiting for a meaningful post from you. Your quips, rants and sound bites are not arguments friend. Do come back with something meaningful for a change. Do I need to throw a glove at you to make the challenge any more clear?

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.....still waiting.....

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Tim, come on. How much time do you need to list your party's platform points? Didn't they issue some kind of publication you can copy?

I want to know what you think your T-party friends will do once in office. How will they do it? When will they deliver on these promises. They must have a plan with a time line, right? So what it is? And why do you TimRussert think it is the right solution for America? You said you agree with them, so tell us why.

It isn't that hard. Consider the glove thrown, waiting for your post. No sound bites this time, only real information to formulate a reasonable argument in favor of the T-party and their policies.

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Tkoind2, just a question, where are you going to get the money to fund all these programs? the military budget alone is not enough to take care of the health care idea you have just by itself, how are you going to make college affordable, especially private colleges? The US is looking at $1 trillion dollar deficits for the next 10 years I believe.

You talk about how the right wing doesn't have any details on how it plans to accomplish any of these things but neither do you. I mean lets be honest here you really don't have a detailed plan on how to create jobs and I mean actually create jobs. You really don't have a detailed plan on how to control the inflation of the college system nor do you have a plan to control the inflation of the health care industry.

As for the new deal, dude you over estimate the new deal effect on getting people jobs and getting them employed, I suggest you actually research the New Deal, most of the things that were break through like job discrimination and minimum wage can't really be done again. It did help build the national infrastructure but historians agree that it had little overall effect if you will on getting people employed.

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What you need to realize is that government support of the projects, like the great depression's New Deal, will put people to work, stimulate the economy, generate return tax revenue as the GNP grows and will help make America more competive and viable for the future. So in this case, government serves the people.

It will have some impact on putting people to work but it will not put enough people to work to really have any important impact on the economy, just like the new deal of the great depression era, it put some people to work but not enough to really change the economy.

Lets be honest here dude, Japan has been doing a new deal package for the past two decades and its barely having an impact on getting the economy going and they already have cheap colleges and free health care.

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Noliving.

The deficit is indeed an issue of concern. But the problems I have listed cannot be ignored based on this worry alone. There are larger issues at work here that are in the same chain of cause and effect.

New Deal. There are several unique factors that make this viable. First the shift in energy that is an unavoidable fact for the coming years. Oil supplies are in decline, this means our dependency upon fossil fuels must be replaced with new solutions. That also means substantial changes in infrastructure.

Some of these efforts will be private and self funding. But it will be critical for the government to offer benefits to help spur change. If that is equally tied to job creation, the opportunities for new forms of employment in everything from new energy creation to infrastructure retooling will exist.

America's infrastructure is in dire need of massive invesmentment. Again this cannot be ignored despite the deficit. Job creation here is a necessity.

But it isn't all bad news for the deficit. We have seen in the rebuilding of Germany and Japan that investment of this kind generates jobs, creates demand for materials etc... This in turn results in economic stimulus that can generate tax revenues back to the government from companies who benefit from the spur in demand as well as from people working instead of burdening the economy by being unemployed. Likewise there are sympathetic benefits from service and other industries that sprout to support the expanded working market.

From and economics point of view this works. It does indeed mean more debut up front, but over time it has substantial potential to repay a lot of that debt while unburdening the social welfare systems.

Education plays heavily into this and solutions must be found. Whether that means greater grant programs for private education or more investment in public education, the American people need opportunties to re-education and retraining for existing workers and education for the future generations of workers.

Without investment in education the US will not be able to compete with countries like India who have made these investments in raising the technology and scientific training of their population a priority. As China plays more heavily in this game, the US must keep and outpace her competition by opening education to more people.

The shift in energy depends entirely upon a well trained and scientifically educated population to become the world leader in alternative energy. Here, more than in nearly every other sector, the US has the opportunity to reverse trade deficits and become a key provider of both energy and green related technologies. A key part of any New Deal.

Health care. Again this is currently a social burden. American health care needs to be radically reenvisioned. We cannot continue to ignore this problem, deficit or not. The risk to our society is too great. The past HMO and other private approaches have failed. Affordable healthcare can and must be created. One supported by payments from working people very much like Canada, the UK, Japan and most of Northern Europe. It may mean greater taxes. But American's must learn to adjust as nearly every other first world nation have, to supporting critical social programs through taxes.

As for historians agreeing upon the New Deal of the 1930's, we just have to disagree on that point. I am sure we could card stack for hours to debate that point. It is, however, very clear that it was a critical part in reversing the downward spiral of the great depression. But a modern version has even greater potential due to the opportunities in global energy, green technology, infrastructure renewal, new health care, new education and much more.

One dollar in, long term, many more back in GNP growth, in new opportunities domestically and globally and in keeping the country competitive.

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"Japan has been doing a new deal package for the past two decades"

I strongly disagree. Japan has not funded projects that offer to support a long term change in her economy. She has not funded education in a manner that has made her more competitive. She has failed to leverage opportunities in green or new energy areas. Largely leaving all of this to private interests.

Has Japan spent a lot of money? Sure, but not in meaningful ways. Thus no improvement to her economy.

Not an apples and apples comparison.

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Japan has actually spent far too much on infrastructure, whereas the US spends too little.

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"It will have some impact on putting people to work but it will not put enough people to work to really have any important impact on the economy, just like the new deal of the great depression era, it put some people to work but not enough to really change the economy."

The original New Deal focused upon labor. A New New Deal would be much more broad. Energy and Green technologies will mean the full spectrum of labor. From manufacturing of energy and environment friendly products to labor employment for infrastructure changes, to scientific and intellectual development for technology leaders.

Retraining is critical to help individuals to shift from declining employment areas to those areas expecting growth. This helps educated workers to move away from unemployment and to find high quality employment. Likewise expanded educational opportunities for people who cannot now afford higher education can and will break the cycle of poverty for many people. Meanwhile technical and trade retraining will create the labor forces needed for infrastructure, manufacturing and service jobs that will be needed to support these changes.

Energy and green alone promise to be two of the most potent areas where America can lead the globe if we make the investment now to prepare our people, shift our own structures and invest in the development of this industry.

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I suggest you actually research the New Deal, most of the things that were break through like job discrimination and minimum wage can't really be done again. It did help build the national infrastructure but historians agree that it had little overall effect if you will on getting people employed.

Yeh, NoLiving, the New Deal was such a failure that the people kept Roosevelt in for FOUR TERMS. LOL. And, CNN, once pointed out two months ago, that the most jobs generated this year was in Germany, which did nothing but government spending on solar panels, etc, etc. The growth rates in Germany were amazing, the report went on. The T-party essentially is one that says that the US can not do anything, only companies. Waiting to see a company put a man on the moon. For the past 30 years nothing. Waiting for a company to put in a bullet train. For the past 30 years nothing like this has happened. Waiting for a company to end deep and grinding poverty throughout the U.S. For the past 230 years, nothing like this has happened. Etc etc etc.

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"Japan has actually spent far too much on infrastructure, whereas the US spends too little."

The problem in Japan is that much of this spending is in the forms of kickbacks to the large construction industry here. Not much of that funding ends up creating new jobs. It instead ends up in the pockets of people who already have money.

A new system in the US would create demand in places where there is not much work today. That demand will spur local economies. If this is tied to green and energy related projects, it helps reduce our dependency on foreign energy while strengthening our internal systems.

We must equally be looking at micro-economic solutions to return jobs to the domestic side. We have allowed globalization to rip away too much of the employment field from Americans. We can return much of that as we recreate our economy around future solutions in everything from energy and green tech to the products that work downstream of those changes.

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It is unequivocal that govt spending ended the great depression, but it was all the govt spending on ww2. The new deal was too small in scope to end the depression. In retrospect though it was helpful.

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Companies will only spend on what they believe will generate profits. They are short visioned and usually looking at a 2-5 year span.

A government must invest with the idea of having place itself in the right position 10, 20 or even 50 years later. A New New Deal will achieve this.

Reduce fossil fuel and foreign industry dependency. Good for security and the environment.

Create green sustainable infrastructure, cities, products and services while selling the same to the world. Again good on many fronts all while generating jobs and making America competitive.

Investing in our people to make them capable of competing with any other nation.

Taking the fate of our nation out of the hands of only private companies and working with citizens to take more responsibility for our future with the long term best interests of the people in mind and not just near term profits. This alone is key to creating jobs and solving our problems.
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Junnama. In part I agree, the New Deal was limited. But a future New Deal will have far more scope as we retool the country for the future.

We do not need a new war to spur spending. We can do the same with domestic investment and see the same benefits without having to kill of sevearal million people to do so.

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Hey Tim! Still waiting. Don't think you are off the hook because we are debating my solutions. I am not running for office. Your T-Party friends are. Yet I seem to have more proposals than you do. Why is that?

Where are your posts with the T-party solutions friend. I toss yet another glove of challenge your way.

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tkoind2

It seems you have all the answers to everything and we are all wrong. Thanks for the loooong lecture though. You have all the solutions, please, please run for public office. Let's see how you do.

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Thanks for the loooong lecture though. You have all the solutions, please, please run for public office. Let's see how you do.

The T-party slogan should be WE CAN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. NOR DO WE WANT TO.

My buddy in Tally, is now paying 650 dollars a month for his privatized health insurance. No problem for a T-partier. As long as it is privatized. Why if that rate were to skyrocket further, NO PROBLEM. T-party answer: NO CHANGE. Solutions are dangerous.

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tkoind2 ignoring and info on the tea party! LOL Kind of like BO and Demos ignoring the failing economy. :-)

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bass4funk. Why do you condemn someone for offering answers? I would love to hear TimRussert's answers. I don't think I have all the answers and would love to hear other proposals. The problem is that people like you and Tim condemn but never offer any tangible alternatives. So why don't you offer up your ideas?

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manfromamerica. I will put you in the same box friend. If you can't offer more than a quip, what do you stand for? Let's hear your solution friend. You, Tim and Bass4 put up a lot of flak, but very little meaningful substance. Here is your chance to make your case. Go for it!

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Again dead silence. Why can't you articulate one platform point of the T-Party and why it is good for America's future. Just one.

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Libs have been telling us for years we need to be more like Europe.

I agree. One thing a victorious Repub majority can do immediately is push for adoption of the austerity plans that the UK, France, Germany and other Euro nations realize are a must.

It's win-win. Conservatives see spending cuts, Libertarians see big gubmint curtailed and "progressives" get to feel all European.

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Tim, Ok. so you are concerned about the US being more like Europe. And you think auterity plans are a good idea.

So where will you make cuts with this austerity program? Can you quantify the benefit of these programs? What will you do in conjunction with these to help address issues like job creation? Afterall, if you initiate austerity programs that impact benefits like unemployment and welfare, then you must have solutions for what happens to those people when the benefits are gone. Otherwise you stimulate crime and invite 3rd world level poverty in some regions.

Likewise, with these spending cuts, what will you do about keeping America competitive? How will you educate the next generation of workers?

How about some answers from our friends on the right to these very valid questions.

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Again silence. Can't you even defend the one proposal you floated?

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tkoind - like most lefties you seem to be woefully ignorant of economics.

Keynesian measures do not work.You cannot spend your way out of a depression.

Small businesses are the engine that will pick us up and take us out of the depression Obama Reid Pelosi have out us in. We need a Congress and prez who are pro-business. Obama is not. Furthermore, no administration in US history has had a staff with as little private sector experience as does the present one.

if you initiate austerity programs that impact benefits like unemployment and welfare, then you must have solutions for what happens to those people when the benefits are gone. Otherwise you stimulate crime and invite 3rd world level poverty

Crime gets 'stimulated' ? I think only "progressives" could buy that one.

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I agree. One thing a victorious Repub majority can do immediately is push for adoption of the austerity plans that the UK, France, Germany and other Euro nations realize are a must.

They are all for the cuts until THEY suffer. But, even though they believe in the Bible, good ole Christians, they forget the concept of caring for one's brother. They will have nothing but GLEE with people getting fired. Goggle Andrew Mellon's concept of how he wanted all workers like slaves. Great quotes from these ole tychoons. Of course the T-party looks upon them as heroes.

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Tim, history is clear on this: govt spending for ww2 ended the great depression.

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Tim, history is clear on this: govt spending for ww2 ended the great depression.

Whose history? Commie Howard Zinn's ?

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"Small businesses are the engine that will pick us up..."

Based upon what? Small businesses are typically retail, service or small manufacturing. With so many people out of work or underemployed, who will buy these products or use their services.

If you know people in small business today, you should equally be aware of the pressures a depressed economy has put on them. Especiall as they have seen significant drop offs in spending by their partners and clients. Just where is the money coming from that will make small business confident enough to hire new people and thus stimulate the economy? This is a big gap in your argument.

Now, in my argument the government would provide stimulus to encourage small businesses to retool to leading edge industries such as energy and green related industries. This, combined with a new deal will creat demand that will then allow small business to hire people and thus stimulate the economy.

The problem with your argument is that in an auterity focused environment government will not provide such financial incentives and stimulus to get this small business enviroment rolling forward. On the contrary, the status-quo is bad enough, if you add austerity to this mix more small businesses will fail as demand continues to drop. That means more people out of work and more economic hardship.

Your plan has no guts, you need a comprehensive picture for how you expect small business to step up. Where is it?

Crime, is a natural follow on of abject poverty. Do you expect the poor to simply starve and die off in an orderly and law abiding manner? Reality shows that permanent unemployment frequently leads to crime as people seek out any means of staying alive and keeping a roof over their heads. Drugs, general crime and potential social unrest are the likely results of greater austerity programs in areas where people are already barely getting by.

Again you offer only surface arguments. Take your points to the next level. You are losing this debate friend.

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@therat

This is of course why there are no specifics on the so called cutting. Cutting spending is popular in principle, unpopular in specifics. Who wants their programs or benefits cut? Noone :|

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Tim "Whose history? Commie Howard Zinn's ?"

MacCarthy is dead and it isn't the cold war anymore. No one is afraid of the term "commie" any more. Why use it?

More sound bites, and still no substance. Where is your rebuttal to my arguments against your plan? Substance friend, substance!

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Tim, what did end the great depression then?

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tkoind2, junnama- On what do you base your assertion that the New Deal ended the depression?

Also, "Communist" reffering to Howard Zinn is neither a good nor bad judgement, just a fact. What's wrong with that? that was his self-admitted political philosophy.

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tkoind2 - you're still pretending ignorance of the tea party issues, even though they speak about specific ideas in every speech. Good job trying not to listen! LOL...

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I didn't say that, I said govt spending for ww2 ended the great depression ;)

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The deficit is indeed an issue of concern. But the problems I have listed cannot be ignored based on this worry alone. There are larger issues at work here that are in the same chain of cause and effect.

It is an issue that needs to be dealt with now before we deal with issues like jobs and health care and education, your right the issues you listed can't be ignored but the issue is priorities and right now the deficit requires are immediate attention, we can't keep doing $1 trillion dollar deficits.

Some of these efforts will be private and self funding. But it will be critical for the government to offer benefits to help spur change. If that is equally tied to job creation, the opportunities for new forms of employment in everything from new energy creation to infrastructure retooling will exist.

Unfortunately they don't create a lot of jobs and sadly it is Chinese companies that are doing a lot of the renewable energy projects in the US.

America's infrastructure is in dire need of massive invesmentment. Again this cannot be ignored despite the deficit. Job creation here is a necessity. But it isn't all bad news for the deficit. We have seen in the rebuilding of Germany and Japan that investment of this kind generates jobs, creates demand for materials etc... This in turn results in economic stimulus that can generate tax revenues back to the government from companies who benefit from the spur in demand as well as from people working instead of burdening the economy by being unemployed. Likewise there are sympathetic benefits from service and other industries that sprout to support the expanded working market. From and economics point of view this works. It does indeed mean more debut up front, but over time it has substantial potential to repay a lot of that debt while unburdening the social welfare systems.

Unfortunately you will have to get the deficit under control before you can even begin to do most of those projects. sigh, the rebuilding of japan and germany didn't really create enough jobs to offset what the US spent, I mean the US is rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan and it really isn't have any impact on the US economy now is it.

The problem is that it doesn't work in that it isn't balanced, your still paying more than what you get out of it. I mean if it did then Obama's stimulus package, not the bank bail out, would work as you claim but it isn't and isn't going to in the long run either. US unemployment benefits are taxed, so what difference does it make if I give tax dollars to a contractor who are also going to be taxed. Whats the difference? The only way your going to generate tax revenue is if its private industry that isn't being paid by the government.

Education plays heavily into this and solutions must be found. Whether that means greater grant programs for private education or more investment in public education, the American people need opportunties to re-education and retraining for existing workers and education for the future generations of workers.

There is no doubt that education plays heavily in it but does the US public education need more investment? I mean japan spends less per student than the US does. Which fields need retraining for existing workers? I would suggest that what really needs changing is the culture of the US in terms of how it approaches education and its studying habits.

Without investment in education the US will not be able to compete with countries like India who have made these investments in raising the technology and scientific training of their population a priority. As China plays more heavily in this game, the US must keep and outpace her competition by opening education to more people.

But spending isn't the problem when it comes to college, the problem is that Americans just don't go for those degrees nor do they go for Phd's. Nearly half of degrees given out in China are engineering or technology related degrees, only 2% of Americans go for those degrees in the US. How do you get American's to show interest in those fields.

Health care. Again this is currently a social burden. American health care needs to be radically reenvisioned. We cannot continue to ignore this problem, deficit or not. The risk to our society is too great. The past HMO and other private approaches have failed. Affordable healthcare can and must be created. One supported by payments from working people very much like Canada, the UK, Japan and most of Northern Europe. It may mean greater taxes. But American's must learn to adjust as nearly every other first world nation have, to supporting critical social programs through taxes.

No one is saying ignore it, what people are asking is how are you going to pay for it and keep the inflation down. Pretty much all the countries you listed are having to make cuts to their health care because of budget problems, also the US spends 14% of its GDP on health care, more than any other nation, Canada publicly spends 6.7% of its GDP on taxes while in the US I believe it is 6.6% of its taxes on health care and the rest are private. If the difference between Canada and the US is 0.1% why would you need to raise taxes? The other problem that is facing a lot of nations like Canada, Japan and the US is demographics that are showing more people are going to be drawing from the system then are paying into the system, you can't just raise taxes to solve that type of problem as social security has shown.

Again what is your plan to actually rein in the inflation of US health care and its college system? If you just make those systems public without reining in inflation you are literally going to eat tax payers alive.

As for historians agreeing upon the New Deal of the 1930's, we just have to disagree on that point. I am sure we could card stack for hours to debate that point. It is, however, very clear that it was a critical part in reversing the downward spiral of the great depression.

No we don't have to disagree at all, the New Deal according to historians didn't really have the impact on the overall unemployment rate that you are hinting at. What the New Deal is really known for is job equality and it civil rights like attitude, like outlawing job discrimination and minimum wage and setting a maximum hours workers could work and social security etc. Those things don't create jobs they only improve the situation of those already employed. That is why FDR referred to it as the economic bill of rights or the 2nd bill of rights. What it is also known for though is lifting the spirits of millions of Americans giving them hope and giving them self dignity.

The New Deal wasn't in response to the Great Depression, all that did was propel them into power, the New Deal were policies that the Democrats wanted to enact no matter what the economic conditions were. What is considered one of the primary reasons why unemployment was so stiff was the FDR rhetoric of "soak the rich", this kept many Americans from investing in the economy because they were afraid of the federally government nationalizing industries, therefore there investments.

It is not until after the 1938 elections in which the democrats lose many seats, still majorities mind you but not enough pass what they want, did Americans really start to invest again in the economy. So did the New Deal effect unemployment yes it did but only temporary, the biggest effect on reducing unemployment was when American's began to invest in the economy again after the 1938 elections.

I strongly disagree. Japan has not funded projects that offer to support a long term change in her economy. She has not funded education in a manner that has made her more competitive. She has failed to leverage opportunities in green or new energy areas. Largely leaving all of this to private interests.

Really how so? Japan has some of the highest scientific and math scores in the world, they are a leader in several high technological fields. Green and New energy areas were not critical parts to any major economy until one or two years ago, thus if Japan would have spend their stimulus plans on them for the past two decades it would have had no effect, just like how the green and new energy areas had no effect on the US economy during the 90's and mid 2000's, same with China. It is only now that spending money on such industries would show any real type of impact. Besides Japan's new deal package is exactly like the US spend a whole bunch of money on jobs that aren't necessary, look at all the construction jobs the Japanese spend money on, that is exactly what the New Deal was all about.

Energy and green alone promise to be two of the most potent areas where America can lead the globe if we make the investment now to prepare our people, shift our own structures and invest in the development of this industry.

Unfortunately it won't create that many jobs considering Chinese are already outbidding US companies to build Green energy projects in the US. Besides that industry won't be able to create the same number of jobs that the health care industry does in the US. The Health care industry in the US has added nearly 500k new jobs in just the past year, a lot of those jobs nurses and assistant type jobs. You honestly believe that the green energy sector can add 500k jobs in one year? I mean heck even the coal industry or the oil industry doesn't add that many in one year.

Yeh, NoLiving, the New Deal was such a failure that the people kept Roosevelt in for FOUR TERMS.

In terms of overall reducing unemployment ya it was such a failure therat, That isn't to say that Americans didn't like FDR's ideas just that it wasn't having the desired effect when he implemented them. The New Deal though wasn't a failure when it came to workers rights. The New Deal wasn't about reducing unemployment it was about workers rights that is why FDR refereed to it as the economic bill of rights and also as the 2nd bill of rights.

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I didn't say that, I said govt spending for ww2 ended the great depression ;

so now you're promoting war? great...

the new deal deepened and prolonged the depression, just like BO is trying to do now.

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Based upon what?

It's probably based upon the fact that over half of Americans employed in the US are employed by small businesses.

Now, in my argument the government would provide stimulus to encourage small businesses to retool to leading edge industries such as energy and green related industries. This, combined with a new deal will creat demand that will then allow small business to hire people and thus stimulate the economy.

Isn't that exactly what Obama's stimulus package was designed to do? So please tell us how that is any different then Obama's stimulus package.

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The New Deal wasn't about reducing unemployment

you can say that again!

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@man

Just stating facts. Do you disagree with the fact that govt spending for ww2 ended the great depression?

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Guys, please stay on topic. thew topic is: All signs point to huge Republican victories in two weeks

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@man

I know why you don't want to answer my question. It's very much on topic, though. I mean we are talking about lack of ideas on the right hand side of the aisle ;)

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junnama, what was your question? you didn't ask one.

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Do you disagree that govt spending for ww2 ended the great depression?

Good luck ;)

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Junnama and tkoind2: what is Obama's and the Demo Congress' plan?

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Do you disagree that govt spending for ww2 ended the great depression?

so you agree the Dem policies during the depression up to the war made things worse?

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OK, back to topic: All signs point to huge Republican victories in two weeks

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Haha, you didn't answer. I know why ;)

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Ok. Here are responses.

Deficit. This is a chicken and egg argument for too many people. The problems facing American people are here now. Not ten uncertain years into the future. You cannot address the deficit without first resolving the issues cripling the economy. That means jobs. Jobs do not come from thin air, you need to have job creation. Small and even large business are not going to create jobs as long as they are seeing declining profits.

The only solution is to act first against unemployment and in favor or re-envigorating the economy. My recommendations for how to do this make sense and will, in relatively near term, result in improvements to the deficit.

Perhaps past programs have paid out more than they bring in. But we have never seen a truly comprehensive program to retool the American economy. The opportunities presented by the shift to sustainable living, green technology and energy alternatives are unprecidented in our history as a country. When combined with the need for changes and rebuilding of our infrastructure the opportunities are the best in our history to generate jobs and leverage our capabilities to become world leaders in these areas.

You can easily imagine creating greater public transportation, development of power creation industries, the restoration of manufacturing as we create more sustainable processes. Oil prices and scarcity will force a reversal of much of the globalization model of economics as it becomes too expensive to transport goods globally and the demand for local production increases. This is where we can be well ahead of the curve and position ourselves for strong micro-economic spheres that employ more people locally.

You say we have to rethink education. That is true, but we need to create access to education above all else. It isn't a question of study habits as much as it is a question of having a system that truly empowers the population. People need to develop skills that make them viable in the modern economy. This is where we can invest and build the power of American competitiveness. But every person capable of contributing must be equally able to attain an education. It is an investment that will pay back every cent as an educated population is far more capable of making a stronger future. Money should not be a barrier to education.

Japan's needs the same solution I am talking about. Investment here has not come down to the working classes. We have seen very little. While Japan has got it right with transportation, she has not got it right with micro-economic spheres or in the creation of jobs. Her infrastructure is fading just like the US and her new industries are too little and too few to help. More can and should be done on a much larger scale.

I do strongly believe that the US can lead in Green and New Energy. But it must happen now. Can we solve all our jobs problems with these two areas? No. But it can go a long way towards helping. Add in infrastructure, micro-economic development and other forms of technology, new manufacturing and sustainability projects that are domestic facing and you can create substantial numbers of new jobs.

This competition with China alone should spur acceptance of such efforts. If China continues to invest strongly in these areas and the US continues to stand still, who do you think will be in power globally in 30 years?

We have to take a strong place in all these areas. That means investment now, not later when it is too late.

The one thing that is an absolute, we cannot wait to resolve the deficit before we can make these changes. The economy will not fuel itself and industry will not revitalize employment without a more vital economy. The only viable solution is to target a wide range of key areas of need and invest in them, create jobs and generate national production. People need jobs now and this will go a long way towards helping.

The other thing to remember is that there will be downstream benefits as unrelated service, small business and local industry benefits from the increase in working people. Those industries will also generate jobs that will help fill the gaps left by the key focal point industries.

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manfromamerica: "tkoind2: what is Obama's and the Demo Congress' plan?"

See you and Tim keep confusing me with the Democrats. I am not. I see issues with Obama's plans too. But at least he has made concerted efforts in several areas that I agree with. Though my plan would go much farther towards creating real universal health care for example.

No friend, my politics rest well outside the limitations of the two parties tripping over each other in the US. Which is exactly where more of us need to be looking for answers. We need outside the box answers. And answers that create greater broad social responsibility, accountability and involvement. Forget this nonsense about small government, it is a right wing fairytale.

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tkoind and junnama: i see you did not answer the question. it's simple really:

what is Obama's and the Demo Congress' plan?

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You first ;)

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Manfromamerica. "what is Obama's and the Demo Congress' plan?"

We are still waiting for your side to spell out your plan. Have been waiting since last Friday. So now you know how it feels.

I will repeat. I am not a democrat. Did you catch that? I am not a democrat. There I said it twice so you can be sure you heard correctly.

Why do I need to tell you what Obama's plan is? I have already told you what plan I think is the right solution. It is much more than you and your T-back... I mean T-party friends have managed to do.

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tkoind2 - I thought you knew Obamas plan. Guess you ignore that just like the tea parties' ideas.

I have already told you what plan I think is the right solution.

really? are you in congress? your plan frankly is meaningless on a policy standpoint. what is the Obama plan you guys so staunchly support?

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I will say this. No politician can achieve a miracle. Not the T-party people, not Obama, not anyone. It is unreasonable for the American people to expect decades of economic and political mess to be sorted out in just two years. This impatience works against the long term interests of America.

Of course people out of work need answers now. That is why radical steps are called for to put people back to work. But healthcare, education, poverty, crime and our geo-political issues require more time. This vascilation will only delay solutions. No matter who is in office, more time to sort problems will be required and cooperation across all parties is essential if anything is to be accomplished.

I am pissed off at both sides for not having the courage to work together for continuing this highschool like BS competition between two halves of essentially the same thing. People need government for the people and not the self serving idiots on both sides of the isle.

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The last thing we need is a 3rd party of self serving idiots in the mix. Especially the clueless lot of the T-party and their empty promises.

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I dunno, I'm suggesting we look at how we got out of this mess the last time we were in it... Maybe that just makes too much sense... Why the GOP is suggesting exactly the opposite is a mystery to me :)

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I'm suggesting we look at how we got out of this mess the last time we were in it... Maybe that just makes too much sense...

LOL, you want ww2 (your plan).

I am pissed off at both sides

Nope, you sound pretty partisan.

BTW - you know that the Tea Party movement is not a political party, right? I'm not so sure you do. :-)

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Nope, we spent our way out of it :)

I know, you can lead the horse to water... Lol

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Nope, we spent our way out of it :)

really? what did we spend on?

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ManfromAmerica. Don't kid yourself, Palin has already been quoted saying she sees the death of the GOP and that the public should choose sides. Sounds like the start of a part to me.

As for partisan. I think this bi-polar partisanship is the biggest problem with America today. As for me sounding partisan. I guess anyone who does not agree with you must be DEM in your eyes. Again more black and white, unhelpful thinking.

You know there are a lot of other political leanings out here in the real world. See there is color out here and people may have views that combine elements of many parties and yet exist outside a party. Imagine that! ;)

No friend, I am not a Democrat though I more often agree with their view on social programs. I am not a Republican though I understand their desire for a government that does not waste money.

I am something entirely different than both. Something far more pragmatic and with a sigular value behind it all. See I believe that goverment should exist to support the people. I believe that business cannot be trusted to look after the best interests of humanity. And I believe that every single person is of value and deserving of an opportunity to contribute his or her talents and that the walls preventing that should be removed.

I am non-materialistic and think the world cares far too much about greed, consumption and money. And I think we have to change our habits with the environment or go extinct. And finally I think we have to change now before the energy reality forces a global disaster.

So, I strongly favor a New Deal that will make the US achieve these goals. Goals that include universal health care and access to education. Greater corporate accountability, programs to put people to work, programs for a sustainable and energy friendly country. And I will cooperate work and help anyone from any party who shares these objectives because these things are what the future of our country requies. No parties necessary.

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Lots and lots of things :)

All of it led by govt spending. If you disagree that was what happened please give me an alternate version ;)

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tkoind2 - you don't even know the plans you are against or supporting. Glad you have your plan. :-)

junnama:

Lots and lots of things

you have no idea i see. :-D

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Goals that include universal health care and access to education. Greater corporate accountability, programs to put people to work, programs for a sustainable and energy friendly country. And I will cooperate work and help anyone from any party who shares these objectives because these things are what the future of our country requies. No parties necessary.

you left off peace, food for the poor, and no more disease. these are not plans. Do you know what BO's plans are?

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Haha, still no alternate version, huh?

I mean why question the heart of your ideology, right? When did Adam Smith die anyway? Oh invisible hand save us ;)

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junnama,

why are Republicans going to win big this year?

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@tkoind2 I have a challenge for you, If you were worthy of a challenge. We are hear to voice our opinions and viewpoints on these topics NOT solve them. If these issues are that serious for you and you are seriously sincere in making a change, take it up with your local congressman, you have many interesting and perhaps possibly viable political solutions to fix all of America's woes, if not, just relax and enjoy the discussions on JT.

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Haha, you have questions but no answers. Is that a tp thing?

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Debate is a part of social discussion. And an important part of learning and understanding Bass4Funk. This is a viable forum for both debate and the expression of opinions. However I find it very curious that none of the T-party supporters here have managed to air any real details about what their potential political representatives actually plan to do. I would expect people to have some clue in this regard.

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manfromamerica.

I do understand and am familiar with both GOP and DEM policies. Though I so far find the T-party platform to be devoid of any real substance beyond accusations and finger pointing.

I don't need to advocate Obama's policies when I feel strongly that they are incomplete. I do, however think that he should be given more time and support from both sides of the isle to improve things. This short term thinking does not help things. Change takes time.

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tkoind2 - you still don't know that the Tea Party isn't a political party??

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junnama -

what did the govt spend onto end the great depression? why is it the GOP will win big this year?
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tkoind2 -

Change takes time.

how bad does Obama have to make it before "BO change" has been given enough time? 15% unemployment? more?

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Like I said, questions but no answers :)

When you start answering I'll reciprocate ;)

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All signs point to Republican victories: polls

Unfortunately McCain will also win...

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@tkoind2 @junnama

I hate to say this, but you guys are taking me back to the days of kindergarden and being the sore losers. Rant, rant and spouse as much rhetoric s possible, because if I were you guys, I'd be teed off too. I'll sum everything up and give you a fact that neither one of you can give me a rebuttal, ostracizing it out of your head is futile! No matter what you say or think the inevitable will happen just like Man said: back to topic: All signs point to huge Republican victories in two weeks!

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I'm not giving you rhetoric. I'm giving you facts. If you disagree tell me how the great depression was ended :|

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@tkoind2

This is a viable forum for both debate and the expression of opinions. However I find it very curious that none of the T-party supporters here have managed to air any real details about what their potential political representatives actually plan to do. I would expect people to have some clue in this regard.

So by your incomprehensible logic, "you" as a Liberal person would be considered the voice of reason and sanity, whereas-we as Conservatives, Independents and T-partiers are whack jobs that have no way of rationalizing the dire situation that is affecting America because we are all ignorant, bible thumping bafoons totally incapable of solving these problems.

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Republicans get higher marks with likely voters than Democrats on handling the economy, taxes, the deficit, job creation, immigration and national security, and on managing the federal government.

this pretty much sums it up.

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@Jun

Sorry, buddy, but you're not going to bait me in and get me off topic. lol I don't need to prove anything, the proof is in the pudding. And like that famous quote in the movie Mortal Kombat: Flawless Victory! I am just sitting back, on Nov. 2nd I'm going to pour a nice glass of stout, turn on my HDTV kick my feet up watch MSNBC and enjoy, just really enjoy all the anchors faces (especially, the opinion shows) cringe with distain and fury and try to spin the election and try again to make it seem like it's "nothing but a thang" get used to it.

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It's straight on topic as it's about the GOP strategy, but hey why talk about that?

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I am just sitting back, on Nov. 2nd I'm going to pour a nice glass of stout, turn on my HDTV kick my feet up watch MSNBC and enjoy,

LOL! that sounds like fun!! drink everytime they say Palin?

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@manfromamerica I dont know why dont you get it, dude we are talking about a messy 8 years of Republican administration. Pres. Obama is cleaning up the previous administration's mess, and 8 years is a very long time, I don't think you can just fix those mess in a year or 2, "Rome was not built in a day!" plus look at the problems that the previous Republican administration caused, These are very serious and heavy problems that affected the whole world . 15% unemployment, who's to blame for that??? Economy crashed during the Previous Republican administration right? common sense man.

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15% unemployment, who's to blame for that??

The voters are deciding this November, aren't they? :-)

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@manfromamerica In those 8 years of Bush Administration (Republicans), any major good things happened in America? Give me one dude...

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noypikantoku

Republicans get higher marks with likely voters than Democrats on handling the economy, taxes, the deficit, job creation, immigration and national security, and on managing the federal government.

and

Republicans are on the cusp of gains at all levels of government

of course, it would be better if some of the RINOs like McCain were also voted out.

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why are Republicans going to win big this year?

Because 50% of high school kids are not graduating high school. That is one factor. But, this republican victory thing---not so fast. Sink might win the Florida senate, and even the florida governor (another rich guy literally buying his way into power) might lose. Don't count your eggs until they hatch. Besides what are they going to do once in power--screw things up royally this time. Maybe extend those Bush tax cuts which would add another 3 and half trillion to the deficit. Such brilliant thinkers, these repubs are.

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@Noypik

For 7 of the 8 years the economy was good, low unemployment. Under Bush it was around 4.7% That is major!

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@manfromamerica You didn't answer the question, Who is to blame for that? is that a clear answer that you admit it's republican's mess??? Don't answer me with another question... Voters and people these days are scared and confused, and when they are afraid and freaking out they don't think properly, makes them to manipulate easilyn and they are prone to do another major mistake , Don't depend anything on votes,It's not the votes that will solve the problems , it will actually cause more problems... yeah this November people in America will make another major mistake! good luck...

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of course, it would be better if some of the RINOs like McCain were also voted out.

Yes, we need purity. ONLY white radicals need apply. And everyone should carry ID papers whenever they go outside. And only FOX news will be allowed to broadcast--bye, bye NPR. There will be NO toleration of outside views. Gays--start immigrating. Brown people, you too better get out.

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Because 50% of high school kids are not graduating high school.

please do explain...

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Such brilliant thinkers, these repubs are.

the mentality of the Left.

Anyway, the GOP will win big this year. Which Dems do you want to keep?

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Voters and people these days are scared and confused, and when they are afraid and freaking out they don't think properly, makes them to manipulate easilyn and they are prone to do another major mistake

However you are so brilliant that you can vote correctly and save the stupid from themselves. hooray!!

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Yes, we need purity. ONLY white radicals need apply.

and more insanity from the Left. ahhh, the race card! LOL!!

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@bass... really?? then what happened on 2008!??? and until now... those employed during his 8 years of administration (probably were employed already way before he even started his administration )lost their jobs and most of them until now didn't get their jobs back.... because companies are bankrupt and paying debts that they got during those messy administration.

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@Noypik

Obama is cleaning up the previous administration's mess, and 8 years is a very long time, I don't think you can just fix those mess in a year or 2, "Rome was not built in a day!"

So raging on Bush constantly is helping the economy? Is 2 years of whining putting money in peoples pockets? Do people really want to hear that. It was ok for the first 6 months, but now it is too old and stale. Quit with the whining!

"Rome was not built in the day." Yeah and look what happened to the Romans!

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@Man

Yes, we need purity. ONLY white radicals need apply. and more insanity from the Left. ahhh, the race card! LOL!!

You should know by now, the only way Liberals can win and shut down the argument ANY argument for that matter is by invoking the "race card" They got you now!

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those employed during his 8 years of administration (probably were employed already way before he even started his administration )lost their jobs and most of them until now didn't get their jobs back..

do you know many adults who have been unemployed for 10 years due to the economy? Most of the unemployed during the 8 years of Bush are still unemployed??? LOL!!! Where did you get this info?

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@manofamerica Security!?how sure are you that the country was secure? do you have the tallies of all crimes all over America? or you based everything from CNN? lol ... secured or paranoid? , Too much and over security checks at the airport? During those 8 years and until now , I don't think Americans are confident to travel outside the country , the way they were used to be before. that doesn't sound security for me more of paranoia.

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@Bass ... nobody is raging at Bush's administration, this is the answer to "Why Obama is still taking time solving the problems" question... the answer is.. uhm..Bush...

PS. people should be at rage especially if they lost their jobs and houses. That is something to be mad at dude.

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""you" as a Liberal person would be considered the voice of reason and sanity,"

I think anyone offering real solutions that have been well considered, studied and shared is a voice of reason and should be listened to. Isn't that what democracy is all about. Or will the T-party put that aside as well?

If you think the liberals are the only ones making any sense, then swap sides.

the problem I see here is that the T-party isn't saying what they plan to do. And their supporters don't seem able to articulate any policy details either. Which means either there are no policy details or they have not communicated them to you.

So why do you like these guys? Seems to me it is 99% because they are "Anti-Obama" since that seems to be the axe most of you seem intent upon grinding.

When in reality what we all need are people who can step beyond this petty, highschool sports mentality and start to think beyond partisanship. America's problems need to be solved collectively by all the participants who can bring viable ideas to the table. It is time to put this infighthing aside.

Sadly I have little faith that this is possible given the bought and paid for loyalties of both parties.

I think even the right recognizes that there has to be real change. But empty change is not change. The T-party offers nothing new and will only deliver more delays in solving the urgent problems of Americans. Period.

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@manfromamerica So if these unemployed adults during Bush's administration didn't get jobs, then you're saying it's worse because how come they were still unemployed for 8 years??? plus add to that the people who lost their jobs during 2008...again under Bush and republicans.

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Bass4Funk. I don't think anyone is invoking race here. What we have invoked is asking you very honestly and directly to spell out your plans for solving America's problems. Something that none of you have stood up to do yet.

If you are so sure the T-party has the answers, why can't you advocate them here? what are you afraid of?

All I hear you offering is nonsense quips. Be a man friend and offer up something we can really talk about.

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TimRussert, ManfromAmerica, Bass4Funk. Not one of you has offered any real argument in favor of the T-party and their approach to solving America's problems. You have been asked time and again but offered nothing.

Do you want to at least explain why?

You call names, point fingers, demand explainations for other party's platforms and even play the race card. But you don't talk about the core issue here. And that is what can the T-party do for America?

It makes me ashamed to be American when I see a huge movement around blame and fear. This is couterproductive for the future of our country. It isn't enough to be against something. You must also be FOR something. If the T-part have viable good ideas, then let's take those onboard and make them work for the betterment of our country. But so far, in all everything I have read in print, web and discussions, I see no solid plans from these politicians that suggest any positive outcome for Americans.

Where are your plans? What are they? And why do you believe they are the right plans for America's future. Is it really so hard for you to answer a straight question? Come on! Take up the challenge and change our minds with reason.

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@manfromamerica you are questioning about the 15% unemployment rate after the 2 years of Obama ? but you didn't see the 10 year unemployed adult people and still unemployed all though out Bush's 8 year administration.( I'm wondering how come they're still alaive if they dont work for 10 years.. lol)

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@tkoind-

I'm not afraid of anything or anyone. You just crack me up, you take yourself a bit waaaaaay too seriously. We are and have been giving ideas and solutions, but as with most liberals, you guys think you are the answer to every single solution and what is the overall result of that?? Nov. 2nd a whole lot of Liberals will be collecting 99 weeks of unemployment.

I think anyone offering real solutions that have been well considered, studied and shared is a voice of reason and should be listened to

Come again? What real solutions?? Did you ever call your local Congressman to tell him of your great solutions?

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@ Bass ... What is your solution????

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@bass

I must say that is the saddest post I have ever read. Mocking someone for caring about their country :(

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As a matter of fact, friends. I have been active in politics for a very long time. Some of my ideas are in line with other political groups who are active. And I do actively support some political movements.

"I'm not afraid of anything or anyone. You just crack me up, you take yourself a bit waaaaaay too seriously."

Better than not taking oneself seriously enough. If you believe in your T-party then why can't you take their ideas seriously enough to share them here. Instead of advocating a real position on issues, you attack me personally. I think that says a lot about your political beliefs and your need to resort to attacks when you should be explaining your ideas.

So where are your political ideas. Attacks on me are ok. I have been called Communist, Red, Democrat, Liberal even traitor to my country. All by people too afraid to discuss the topic rationally. I guess you fall into this category.

Or you could prove me wrong and actually talk about policy. Your decision friend.

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@Bass then why would we beleive to a person Who Doesn't take things seriously like you? So your posts here are not serious??? hahaha

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@Jun, Noypik and to our honorary tkoind

I am not running for anything, therefore whether I have a solution or not is irrelevant, the problem that I have with you guys or most liberals in general is that you guys always love to throw personal attacks or think that you are the "be all, know it all, have all the answers to everything" and this is precisely what is wrong with Washington and with Dems and Liberals starting with Obama a man that is full of himself and doesn't want to listen to ANY ideas often from his cabinet and especially from the opposition. And this is the reason why they are all going to lose big in the next few weeks. You guys can't stand it, so you need to vent to get your frustrations out, I got it. But trash talking and thinking that you guys are so above everyone else reflects badly on you! Discourse is fine, everyone here loves a good debate, but now it has gotten to the point with all the nasty innuendoes and sly pot shots, the whole discussion is off track, basically, look at me, "I am smart logical, well thought out reasoning Liberal" and we are: "Troglodyte, knuckle dragging backward animals". The result is it took Bush 8 years for starting to screw many things up, but it only took Obama 18 months to worsen the situation, again 18 months, forget my beliefs, but what about the American people? Are they all ignorant and dumb?? Liberals have all the answers, I highly doubt it and so does America. Face it, you guys failed in just 18 months and you think 2012 Obama and the Dems will get a second term? Or do we just have to shut up and bow down to the line, give homage to the almighty anointed one and jump to his call and beckon. Again, we are on this blog to have fun and share our thoughts and insight, but when the conversation degrades to insults and personal attacks then what is the purpose of debate? tkoind, you say you are active in politics, if so, then take your rhetoric to the people where it can truly make a difference. I'm in Japan, I can't do anything, sure-I have my personal opinions on many issues and many people might not agree with me, but at the end of the day, I cannot physically change anything unless I get on a plane, wait 4 more years and go on the campaign trail, throw my hat in the race for public office. I don't want to do that. NOT interested, so I opine here. So unless you want to have a plan to move inside the belt way, I suggest you do that, if you want to change America, if not, please keep the conversation enjoyable and try to toot your horn less. But that is just my humble opinion

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It makes me ashamed to be American

Funny, I heard that line somewhere before hmmmm......

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@Noypik

then why would we beleive to a person Who Doesn't take things seriously like you? So your posts here are not serious??? hahaha

I didn't know you knew me intimately that well to say that I'm not serious. Maybe you know something about us that I don't. Hmmmm....

Moderator: Readers, please focus your comments on the story, not at or about each other.

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@bass It's a shame that you consider this as " For Fun" , Man this is a news that will affect Americans' lives big time , and of course as a citizen people should take these things seriously. This is a Big sign saying Big Mistake Coming and people are heading there and you look and see them and talk about it as for fun? it's not a Hollywood celebrity article man.

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@ Bass one more thing, it's not just a simple exchanging of point of views, these posts show how the people think today? and the major decisions to change and elect people are based the way people think,changes and solutions are in these people's hands.

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We are and have been giving ideas and solutions...

Where? Certainly not here.

What I see is nothing but hand-wringing about how bad Obama and the liberals are.

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These GfK polls are interesting. I remember when we used to wait for the election before announcing the winners. This way is interesting, though, a bit like collecting the pot before the hand has been dealt.

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@ Bass "but it only took Obama 18 months to worsen the situation, again 18 months"

Tell me How did Obama mess things up???

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It's a shame that you consider this as " For Fun" , Man this is a news that will affect Americans' lives big time , and of course as a citizen people should take these things seriously. This is a Big sign saying Big Mistake Coming and people are heading there and you look and see them and talk about it as for fun? it's not a Hollywood celebrity article man.

The had already made One big acidnine mistake again! This is Carter all over again 10 fold! As I said before, nothing you or I can do, so to question my patriotism is totally irresponsible, given the fact you know nothing about me. Hey, I'm from L.A. So I know exactly what goes on in Hollywood, these clowns can't do anything, oh, they love to attack the opposition but when it comes to solutions, I don't see any of these Hollywood Liberals doing a darn thing and I mean something that really will change America. My deepest recollection of the Hollywood left is at the VMA, the Grammy's, the Emmy's etc. They love to go on and on how bad conservatives and Republicans are and how selfish and self-centered they are, but none of them will give millions and I mean absolute millions to help the poor and got a lot of poor in California. Yeah, some do try, but the majority are a bunch of hypocrites. Again, what we really need right now is to get this wasteful spending under control and as long as the Dems retain full control or all 3 branches, it ain't gonna happen.

these posts show how the people think today? and the major decisions to change and elect people are based the way people think,changes and solutions are in these people's hands.

That's all fine and good, but talking down and belittling people is totally counter-productive. You can disagree, but insults and name calling.... If I want to hear that, I can watch MSNBC to get a dose of that all day long, but on JT at least on my end and for everyone else that is American, we cannot do anything for the political process, make or change it, discussing commenting on it is all that we can do (minus the personal attacks) unless you want to move to the Belt way and try your luck there, go for it!

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.

Because 50% of high school kids are not graduating high school. That is one factor. please do explain..

SEE. this is what I MEAN. Republicans do NOT see the silly soundbites as silly soundbites. And they can not see where people who are not so smart are buying into soundbites. Like Fiona (the past HP president) refusing to answer how these Bush tax cuts would be paid for. For republicans, THAT is OK. Where did this economic disaster come from? Too difficult for most people who have not graduated high school. Blame the 8 uncontrolled years of endless spending and graft and corruption on the current guy. So....what else needs to be explained? People who are not good at thinking, vote for people who are not good at thinking. Yet to HEAR one IDEA about how ALL of this here fine tax cuts are going to be paid for--except through the Chinese communists loaning us yet more money. Reagan, was addicted to Japanese money....now....its the Chinese communists. For you republicans....this is OK!!!!!

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Tell me How did Obama mess things up???

As if being radical far, far-left isn't bad enough.

But Ok, if you really want to know...Not creating jobs and making that his first priority! Shoving and focusing on healthcare on the people that never wanted it. The stimulus mostly wasted didn't do that much to help anything. Bowing to foreigner leaders. Not taking a tough enough stance with our enemies! Being overly apologetic for everything, even for just being an American. NOT listening to the American people! Received a Noble Prize for what??? Giving terrorists civilian lawyers and trying them in US courts! Cutting NASA's budget and the list goes on.....

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The result is it took Bush 8 years for starting to screw many things up, but it only took Obama 18 months to worsen the situation...

Several points can be made here:

Bush started from a position of projected budget surpluses "as far as the eye could see," and it took him comparatively little time to squander them. Not eight years. The US was back in the red within Bush's first two years.

Bush promised during the 2000 campaign to keep discretionary federal spending to the level set by his predecessor. That he broke his word is one thing -- but the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and helped him every step of the way with spending measures for him to sign. It was not just Bush.

During that same campaign in 2000, several liberal magazines outlined how Bush was not being honest about what he was claiming. Say what you will about all the people you like to list as liberals but are really not, the real liberals (like the writers for The New Republic) called it right on Bush from the very beginning. The so-called conservatives who supported him all the way were wrong -- ALL the way. (And now they want to take their own mistakes out on liberals.)

Obama has not had "18 months." It takes at least one year from the time a president takes office for his policies to start to have an impact. Unlike Bush in 2000, Obama inherited an economic system on the brink of utter collapse. His team totally turned around the lack of faith in the banking system in the eyes of most Americans.
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the whole discussion is off track, basically, look at me, "I am smart logical, well thought out reasoning Liberal" and we are: "Troglodyte, knuckle dragging backward animals".

Funny, but when you put things in quotation marks, it means that you are quoting someone. Looking through this thread, I can't help but notice that the first use of the term "knuckle dragging" and "troglodyte" are by you.

Yes, there is a way to argue and present points intelligently. There are many conservatives who can do that, but those who do not should not be praised as being particularly thoughtful. The problems Americans face as a nation require thoughtful and intelligent analysis. Rhetoric might win elections since people who lack intelligence get to vote too, but it won't do anything to address the issues.

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Funny, but when you put things in quotation marks, it means that you are quoting someone. Looking through this thread, I can't help but notice that the first use of the term "knuckle dragging" and "troglodyte" are by you.

Actually, I was quoting myself.

Not looking for anything from you.

You have your opinion and I have mine, leave it at that.

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A question about Republicans and Democrats. Is it fundamentally true that the Democrats tend to come from the East and West Coasts which have the better schools, colleges, economies and, therefore, standard of living, whereas the Republicans tend to be from the states where the quality of education is lower with economies in worse shape? And then does that match the actual population statistics (i.e. that about 50% live on the coasts and 50% live inland) and the voting results each time (i.e. about 50%Dem/50% Rep?) I have been told this before but was hoping for some confirmation and clarification.

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Is it fundamentally true that the Democrats tend to come from the East and West Coasts which have the better schools, colleges, economies

Better economies? No state in the union has produced more jobs for the last decade - i.e. more wealth creation - than has Texas.

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the problem I see here is that the T-party isn't saying what they plan to do. And their supporters don't seem able to articulate any policy details either. Which means either there are no policy details or they have not communicated them to you.

Neither are you Tkoind2, you are very ambiguous about the details of your plans. You have grand ideas but no way of how to implement those plans or what they would be. I asked you how you are going to get Americans to go into the IT or engineering fields, you haven't given me an answer, you haven't given any answers as to how your going to control the run away inflation of health care or college, you haven't explained how your going to change the current culture of America when it comes to their approach and values to public education, I mean for god sakes they spend at most one hour per day studying if that.

You keep talking about how if the national government spends money to create jobs this will stimulate the economy and generate tax revenue, but the problem though is that is exactly what Obama's stimulus was designed to do and at best it has only maintained current unemployment levels not lowered them, we keep having to do emergency bail outs for teacher salaries and police officers because officers because the first year of stimulus didn't generate enough tax revenue to pay for their next year and then the year after that. You keep talking about how your stimulus idea will work and how from an economic sense it makes sense yet again Obama's stimulus which is exactly like yours has shown it doesn't work to make a real difference to the economy at whole.

You talk about green energy and manufacturing, you are over estimating green energy industry potential to create jobs or stimulate the economy, when it comes to manufacturing the only real way the US can compete is with assembly line in which robots do the vast majority of the work and at the same time increase the number it produces per hour, that is exactly how Germany's green energy sector works and they are not willing to share their robotic assembly line technology with the US.

Tkoind2,all you offer is grand ideas but no details at all on how you are going to pay for them nor how you are even going to implement nor how you are going to overcome the challenges that are in the way of implementing them. Majority of Americans would love to do the things you want to do but you don't offer any real viable plan on how to implement them.

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you haven't given any answers as to how your going to control the run away inflation of health care or college

Nonetheless, that doesn't and shouldn't prevent anyone from asking what the Republicans' plans are -- and being critical of them for not having any.

I believe the health care issue, from a technical standpoint, is relatively easy to address -- since so much of the load on the healthcare system is due to preventable conditions like diabetes. (And just last week, there was a report that indicated that rates of diabetes will skyrocket over the next few decades.)

Part of the inherent problem is that the current condition has been one of the unintended consequences brought about by the free market -- something all Republicans love and will certainly promote after the election. Tax subsidies to corn producers who provide lots of cheap corn sweetener in order to make cheaper processed foods.

Moving away from that would entail a major fight with the entrenched forces that profit so much from the status quo -- something the Republicans (and some Democrats too) have a lot invested in.

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Nonetheless, that doesn't and shouldn't prevent anyone from asking what the Republicans' plans are -- and being critical of them for not having any.

It's amazing when you have passionate Liberals go against passionate conservatives/independents that when someone "does" offer them a very detailed challenge, all you hear is silence and or excuses.

tkoind2, answer the man, please.

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Nonetheless, that doesn't and shouldn't prevent anyone from asking what the Republicans' plans are -- and being critical of them for not having any.

It doesn't and shouldn't but then at the same time he shouldn't really be claiming that the democrats do either. That is what I'm attacking, tkoind2 is saying the republicans don't have a plan but the democrats do which is people should vote for the democrats, is what he is saying. I'm pointing out that they are just ambiguous and that he himself is just as ambiguous as the republicans when it comes to his grand ideas.

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Come again? What real solutions?? Did you ever call your local Congressman to tell him of your great solutions?

Definitely, the saddest post of all!

There are many conservatives who can do that, but those who do not should not be praised as being particularly thoughtful. The problems Americans face as a nation require thoughtful and intelligent analysis.

REALLY?! When Fox News Chris Wallace asked Fiona how she would pay for the Bush tax cuts SEVEN times, she refused to answer it. Replied by saying it was a political question. When asked how to PAY for this HUGE military budget, you get the answer spending cuts but NO specifics. I have YET to see from ANY of your right-wingers ANY specifics. Can't you at least FIND out---as WE can NOT get this information. COME on now! Let's have some details.

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At least you watch Chris Wallace, so there might be actually some hope for you, Rat! lol

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At least you watch Chris Wallace, so there might be actually some hope for you, Rat! lol

No, I don't. It was SO COMICAL that the clip made its way to EVERY left-wing blog and newspaper. The complete lack of answers, like from you. But.....hey...elect your yahoos and suffer. That is what happens when you have no solutions, but soundbites.

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The REAL comical thing is how funny liberals and the loony, radical left act like whiny tykes when they don't get their way. They THINK that they have all the answers, but they ONLY thing that they ever bring to the table is burden, echo chambering and that the only thing they care about are taxes and tofu. Yes, Nov.2nd will be a fun day indeed.

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Noliving. Quote one line where I say vote for anyone specific! Go ahead, quote away friend!! I have clearly said I an not a Democrat, do you want to see my "I am not a Democrat card?" Move on already.

Now to the key issues at hand. So you don't think my ideas are workable? Where are your plans? Five days of this forum and not a single platform plan has been defined in this thread from the Right or from the T-party.

Sure you have gone on and one about slogan this, sound bite that and even resorted to personal attacks. But you have utterly failed to offer one set of reasons why we should support the candidates you advocate.

I have been very clear that if these people have solid policy ideas that make sense, I am more than willing to take those onboard. I am a political pragmatist. If the solution makes sense for the future of our country, then I don't care where it came from. All I care about, is that the idea is tangible, workable and beneficial to the future of our country and people.

With that in mind, and I have asked before dozens of times, why can't one of you give me good cause to question my opposition to the T-party by offering up some solutions that these people stand for and how they will work. Why not?

Now with regards to my proposals. Change comes with sacrifice and cost. I challenge the statements that the American people don't want health care. Show me a definitive poll that shows American's do not want health care.

Sure maybe they don't like Obama's policy, but the millions of people out there who don't have health care most certainly do want it. CNN and several other polls show 72% of Americans want more government control over health care. USA Today's poll said 55% of Americans want more GOP support for health care. And the AP poll shows that a 2 to 1 average Americans want the governement to do more for health care.

So where are your numbers showing that people don't want health care? They don't exist. I can card stack you into oblivion friends with evidence that supports that people want a health care solution.

With regard to my proposals. The GOP talks about austerity, but what is the payback for the American people? More profits for the wealthy and more suffering for the ordinary workers. The GOP has no solution that will make the sacrifice of austerity benefit the average American.

Instead let austerity be replaced with intelligent and well planned sacrifice. Sacrifices in favor of long term benefits for the average American. We need to spend money now to create jobs and press forward the economy. But not just random spending. Spending needs to be focused upon sustainable changes. That is why I advocated infrastructure, green shifting and technologies, new energies and health care. Combined with a strong social push to prioritize re-education for workers changing careers and higher education for more people, we can and will create a stronger economy.

Downstream from this there will be domino effect growth as demand increases for services and goods resulting from the increased economic activity.

Further, a shift to more micro-economics makes sense for America. Shift production back to local areas. This is green, and conserves energy while encouraging local job creation. Globalization has hurt working people. It is time to reverse this process and help the trade deficit in the process. Start by making more goods locally. Sure there will be greater cost, but the benefit is that local jobs will help stimulate local economies and I for one would rather pay more for a locally produced product than see that money leave my community.

So again I have given you real data, real solutions and real details. Where are yours? Where? Nolife, Bass4Funk (stop the childish insults and write something meaningful), manfromamerica, TimRussert. Put your right wing money where your mouths are and put up something real to read and consider. Childish personal attacks will be ignored from now on. I will only rebut arguments that offer some substance. Agreed?

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I'll be happy if the Republicans make good on their promise to cut spending and reduce the deficit. Unfortunately, they always promise it but tend to deliver the opposite (Reagan, Bush). One can hope that they really mean it this time, but I doubt it. The Tea Party candidates surely mean it (often to the extreme), but how many of them will actually make it to Congress?

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So again I have given you real data, real solutions and real details. Where are yours? Where? Nolife, Bass4Funk (stop the childish insults and write something meaningful), manfromamerica, TimRussert. Put your right wing money where your mouths are and put up something real to read and consider. Childish personal attacks will be ignored from now on. I will only rebut arguments that offer some substance. Agreed?

Lol...Are you serious? Substance? His majesty is surely just! I like your humor-good one. lol

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Airion. For decades we have heard the phrase "cut spending and reduce the deficit." Yet the GOP consistently finds new wars to fight and spend more money. And they never cut things that impact the wealthy. Only those things that impact you, me and every other average worker out there.

So where is the upside for Joe Hardworking American? Fact is there isn't and upside.

Joe Hardworking American needs job security, health care, a chance to send the kids to college, safe streets and bridges, affordable housing, safe food and quality goods. He also needs to think about the future and the welfare of the next generation.

I have not seen one truly tangible plan from the so called T-party people. Sure a lot of rhetoric and catch phrases, but nothing more solid than that. Certainly nothing that can withstand critical review.

Americans need to wake up, take accounting of what is really important (the majority think that means jobs, education and healthcare) and start looking for political leaders that will make these things happen.

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tkoind2, while I agree with your assessment of the GOP, I think the difference with the Tea Party is I think the Tea Party actually has the conviction to cut spending and reduce the deficit, though probably still in such a way to benefit the wealthy. The Tea Party plan is to cut spending, cut taxes, cut government regulation and oversight, consequences be damned.

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"The Tea Party plan is to cut spending, cut taxes, cut government regulation and oversight, consequences be damned."

But what kind of attitude is that to take about the welfare of Americans? There are consequences for each of these decisions. Who will be impacted, how and how with the impact be offset so as not to cause greater problems?

First of all a Tax cut is unrealistic given the state of things. The war is still on, unemployment high and infrastructure falling apart. Where will the cuts come from? I have not seen any kind of plan, and this cannot be left to chance.

Cutting government regulation. Didn't we learn anything from 2008? If anything deregulation as started by Reagan has consistently resulted in problems. While this leaves business to continue getting rich, it has never resulting in job creation or in the better support of working people. More likely it is giving license to the rich to carry on bleeding the nation dry while workers continue to spiral down the drain. Again, what regulation are we talking about? What oversight are we giving up? And what protections will be left to assure that the interests of the American people are protected?

Cut spending. Ok. But what spending? Again no details. You can't cut benefits to people who are not working without creating a whole new level of deep poverty in America. You can't stop spending on the war until you get out of it. You can't stop spending on maintaining the country's infrastructute unless you want to see more roads and bridges collapse. And we already have half the population without proper health care. Is the point to make America become a model of Somalia? Because spending cuts without very good planning will make such a drop reality.

So I don't see any plan details. Just "I will cut no matter what." Ok, but in whose best interests?

I care first and foremost for the welfare of working people in America. People who need jobs, education, re-training, stability, health care and safe communities. Show me a policy that makes this possible and I am all for it.

But what I see from the T-party is more hardship for working and poor people and more opportunties for the rich to get richer at our expense and at the expense of the enviroment and people of this country.

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tkoind2, we're on the same side. I didn't mean to imply that they have a good plan. I wanted to say that they DO have a plan, and they certainly have the conviction to carry it out. The problem is the plan is not thought out, and values cutting taxes and small government as moral imperatives above all others.

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Amazing how conservatives act. In England, the Tories are SELLING the woodlands now, Sherwood Forest is going on the block. Going to make it into a golf course. By 2020 most of the woodlands will be sold off. Maybe they can sell the queen too!!!

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So many liberals here are just making up their own stats, it's funny to watch:

50% of high school students don't graduate 15% unemployment (its 10, but if Dems stay in office it will indeed be 15+) not to mention they have actually said the majority of the US people are stupid and only the few obamatrons should be able to vote

now back to topic: All signs point to Republican victories: polls

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Airion. True. I agree the key problem here is that the plan is not well thought through. But then it begs to ask why are people so willing to vote for people who may actually do more damage than good? I mean if their plan is not well conceived and solid, their intentions may well harm America more than help it.

But we are not on the same page about the moral imperatives. Cutting taxes sounds great, everyone (me included) wants to keep more of the money we make. But reality is different. The country needs internal investment in education, health care and infrastructure to keep our country stong. You cannot do those things without taxes. Americans, like any other people, must be prepared to sacrifice for the greater good of our country.

Now I am in favor of changes to the tax code that simplify the system, put more burden on the wealthy and tax business that do not behave as good citizens. But tax cuts in abstract do not make sense when what the nation needs are higher priorities.

Small government. This is mythology and propaganda and nothing more. Show me once where in modern times the GOP has delivered anything resembling small government. Or any substantial change in the size of government other than upwards? This is rubbish and no more real than the easter bunny and the T-party candidates know it.

What we actually need is effective government. And government that benefits and represents the people. The size of that government should be relative to what it is doing and not some arbitrary definition by reactionary partys.

For example 72% of Americans want government health care involvement, an efficient body will need to exist to make that happen.

America needs regulation to keep business honest. We need oversight to protect our enviroment and communities. Efficient organizations need to exist to carry out these tasks. Not having them exposes us to substantial risk of abuses, corruption and exploitation.

I would advacate a candidate that says "I want to improve the efficiency of government." That makes sense. I would back a party that says "I will cut unnecessary spending so that resources can go where they are most needed for the benefit of working people." I would join a party that says "We put the working people first and will implement plans to address their key priorities of jobs, education and health care."

The T-pary fail on all of these fronts and offer only slogans about imaginary small governments that will never exist, tax cuts that will never happen for working people in any meaningful way, and spending cuts that will come home to rest as burdens on working people while the rich keep getting richer.

The T-party is a sham filled with half truths, lies and empty promises. They are a pointless distraction that will do more harm than good for American workers.

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The T-party is a sham filled with half truths, lies and empty promises.

tkoind2 - do you know that the Tea Party movement is NOT a political party??

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manfromamerica. I can give you links to the stats if that will make you happy. Where are your links?

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while the rich keep getting richer

so?

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tkoind2 - do you know the Tea Party movement is not a political party?

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while the rich keep getting richer so?

They want more and more, and there is a limit. Now, the rich are upset about pensions, social security, and decent wages. They HATE that. So, there is a income GAP, and disparity of money. The top 1% have what now....70% of the wealthy. Like the game of monopoly, there is an increasing concentration of wealth and a increasing number of Losers. Things happen when this comes about. And manfromAmerica, unless you are 1%-er, you should be worried to. Watch the youtube movie, from the son of a rich guy, a 1%-er, who showed how the 1%-ers want EVEN more. And more. And more. And more. Quite enlightening. The only thing, there is a limit to the wealth as there is limit to the resources, and so pretty soon it comes to taking and taking and taking.

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They want more and more, and there is a limit.

what limit? and why should there be? just because you want their money?

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"tkoind2 - do you know the Tea Party movement is not a political party?" Does it matter? They are clearly a political movement, right? If it makes you happy to call it a movement then I will comply. But in return I want some rational posts from you. Is it too much to ask?

As for the the following.

Me: "while the rich keep getting richer"

You: "so?"

I hate I have to spell this out, but if the rich are getting richer at the expense of the majority of American people, this is a problem.

I don't have an issue with someone working hard and getting rich. But I do have a problem with CEO's making massive salaries while working people see static salaries or are losing their jobs. I also have an issue with working people being expected to do the work or two or three people so companies can get rich at the expense of working people to death. And I have a problem companies cutting benefits while the owners and investors get rich.

We need a much more fair society where workers are a priority for government and business. Where good citizen companies are rewarded for providing good pay, stability, local jobs and community support. And where companies who export jobs, cut benefits and channel profits to the rich while workers suffer are penalized for doing so.

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Airion. True. I agree the key problem here is that the plan is not well thought through. But then it begs to ask why are people so willing to vote for people who may actually do more damage than good? I mean if their plan is not well conceived and solid, their intentions may well harm America more than help it.

Its not all that hard to figure out. When you see the damage being wrought by those currently in power, you choose the alternative. Americans aren't idiots, and they aren't blind. They see what a disaster Obama is, and what the Dems are so desperate to force down their throats, and thus they choose something else.

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Molenir. What you describe is like standing in the window of a burning building. You choose between burning to death and falling to you death. That is what is going on with this election.

But what is sad, is that there is a stairwell out of the building that is not on fire, a third choice that is not being offered here.

The choice is not "disaster" from Obama or "nonsense" from the T-party. The real choice for Americans is to change our polar thinking about politics. We all know that neither party has done much for working people in living memory. So why keep cycling through left-right, DEM-GOP?

We have to think outside that box. Take the safe stairway to exit the burning building. And that starts with people clearly demanding solutions to our problems and making both parties understand that we are no longer willing to tolerate these polar shifts. We want cooperation, we want the people to come first and we want change.

But in return we have to be vigilent and active in politics. We need to read, study and learn and not just react to slogans. We have to demand tangible answers and solutions not empty promises. And we need to create a culture of accountability and not the reactionary impatience we see to today.

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I hate I have to spell this out, but if the rich are getting richer at the expense of the majority of American people, this is a problem.

what??? the rich run successful companies that supply good-paying jobs for americans, who in turn spend money and support other businesses who themselves provide paying jobs for more people... it all goes around.

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We need a much more fair society where workers are a priority for government and business. Where good citizen companies are rewarded for providing good pay, stability, local jobs and community support. And where companies who export jobs, cut benefits and channel profits to the rich while workers suffer are penalized for doing so.

it's a rehash of the communist utopia.

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We all know that neither party has done much for working people in living memory.

how long are you alive, 2 years?

So why keep cycling through left-right, DEM-GOP?

your issue is with the 2 party system.

true conservative policies (by GOP or Dems) have boosted the economy and the standards of living of all americans. Liberal policies on the other hand intentionally cripple society to create a nanny state.

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manfromamerica. So now I am a utopian. Are you running out of political names to call me yet? Do break out the dictionary I am sure there are more you can find with a little effort. And perhaps learn something along the way. ;)

"true conservative policies (by GOP or Dems) have boosted the economy and the standards of living of all americans. Liberal policies on the other hand intentionally cripple society to create a nanny state."

Prove it! Show me numbers and stats that back up this idiotic claim.

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One more thing. Why is it Utopian to think that workers can have good jobs with good pay, stability, local jobs and community support? Why is it Utopian to expect companies who benefit from our labor and our consumption to be good citizens?

You have swalled the propaganda hook line and sinker mate that tells you that workers come last and the rich come first. I feel sorry for you.

I still believe, and a lot of Americans with me, that we have rights and value too. And that we can and should expect better.

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what??? the rich run successful companies that supply good-paying jobs for americans, who in turn spend money and support other businesses who themselves provide paying jobs for more people... it all goes around.

@Man

Why are you trying to prove your points to individuals that know you have all the facts, the stats and just can't accept or come to grips and concede, which would be the proper case. We all know what the polls say and yet, Liberals are so desperately trying to cling on some evading hope that all the American people are dumb, but Dems and Liberals have all the logical answers. They haven't learned anything, they are not learning now and never will.

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Prove it! Show me numbers and stats that back up this idiotic claim.

show me where i'm wrong. most people will tell you things were pretty darn good under conservative times.

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bass:

Why are you trying to prove your points to individuals that know you have all the facts, the stats and just can't accept or come to grips and concede, which would be the proper case.

i know, i am supposed to know my place. i am an ordinary person and should therefore shut up.

but Dems and Liberals have all the logical answers. They haven't learned anything, they are not learning now and never will.

lets count mccain and crist as liberals. :-) and add the entrenched GOP establishment like Rove as well.

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tkoind2 - your agruments are inconsistent. you attack only republicans and ordinary people. then you attack the 2 party system. but you fully and only support obama.

i understand... it's obama you support, not any party or ideas.

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They want more and more, and there is a limit. what limit? and why should there be? just because you want their money?

So typical in the ability to NOT recognize that all wealth is tied to some kind of resource, be it copper, land, chemicals, gold. There is a limit to the resources. So, you can not have more and more and more. Impossible. Not everyone can have a SUV. Why if all of the Chinese decided to eat one more egg per week, it would wipe out the grain reserves of Australia. Get it! We have to start sharing. The conflict with China is the beginning of the wars over the last resources and who gets them. Only in republican imagination is there is endless wealth for everyone!

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So typical in the ability to NOT recognize that all wealth is tied to some kind of resource, be it copper, land, chemicals, gold.

really? i guess the internet tied to trees? no wealth is ever created? if one person gets rich, another must get poor?

your problem is you want the government to take peoples property and cash and redistribute. tha's communism. it's simple. and a proven failure.

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Why if all of the Chinese decided to eat one more egg per week, it would wipe out the grain reserves of Australia. Get it! We have to start sharing. The conflict with China is the beginning of the wars over the last resources and who gets them.

talk about alarmism and fear-mongering! it's the race for the last resources! better dig your underground shelters and store up.

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Incumbents are a big target of voters’ ire, and that means Democrats who control the House and Senate are more likely to be punished than out-of-power Republicans.

thought the career GOP congressmen should also be shown the way out.

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now back to topic:

just because the GOP stands to gain, it doesn't mean the problems will be solved. there are too many corruptcrats in office.

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So Man... if you hate the standing system so much, what is your alternative? Can you lay out your plan for America?

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talk about alarmism and fear-mongering! it's the race for the last resources! better dig your underground shelters and store up.

No fearmongering. Just REALITY. But, continue to support those one-percenters, manfromamerica, and see just how much they care about you. Reality, is there will be an additional one BILLION more people on this earth, which has DECREASING farmland, and MORE polluted water than before. Don't see how the market place concept is going to work here. More and more demand, higher prices. More people starve. Sharing is the only way.

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tkoind2 - I am not making a plan for america. However I will vote for the candidates who's ideals are consistent with mine. that is the alternative, instead of hiding your head in the sand and voting Dem or GOP.

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No fearmongering. Just REALITY. But, continue to support those one-percenters, manfromamerica, and see just how much they care about you. Reality, is there will be an additional one BILLION more people on this earth, which has DECREASING farmland, and MORE polluted water than before. Don't see how the market place concept is going to work here. More and more demand, higher prices. More people starve. Sharing is the only way.

off topic. this thread is about the election and polls predicting a GOP victory, not about global overpopulation.

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off topic. this thread is about the election and polls predicting a GOP victory, not about global overpopulation.

Talk about hiding your head in the sand. Yep! That is going to work. The GOP will completely ignore the big picture. Ain't a problem.

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Talk about hiding your head in the sand. Yep! That is going to work. The GOP will completely ignore the big picture. Ain't a problem.

LOL!!! which Dem is tackling global overpopulation?

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And just how do you expect any American party to dictate global population controls? Even if they did, you would argue it was big brother acting out in an authoritarian manner. What does this have to do with anything?

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And just how do you expect any American party to dictate global population controls?

hey, I'm with you. explain that to theRat, who seems to think this is a GOP scandal. :-)

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HELLO...wasn't it the GOP that prevented money going to clinics in third world countries if they promoted FAMILY planning, you know condom use? Why yes it was! And still is. And imagine the hew and cry if any Democrat TALKED about this issue. Why every republican would rise up and scream and say it was his right to reproduce endlessly. Heck, Bill Clinton had a hard time with an endangered owl, which prevented some timber from getting cut down. Endless ridicule with the GOP when it comes to saving the environment, and having a sustainable society. The republicans are the party of TODAY as there is no tomorrow. Why they will all be raptured out to God's heaven. So, why act responsible.

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theRat - I would guess that overpopulation is not among the top 50 most important issues to voters this election.

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Why every republican would rise up and scream and say it was his right to reproduce endlessly. Heck, Bill Clinton had a hard time with an endangered owl,

these 2 statements sound really odd together. maybe it's good and environmentally friendly that the GOP stopped him!

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This news about a projected Republican resurgence and victory in the Midterm Elections is the best news Ive heard in quite a while. Lets hope the Polls are right, and that in 2 years` time Obama will exit the White House, too. After that, maybe American can get back on course again. The Tea Party Movement have done a great job, wakening Americans to the dangers of Marxism and Totalitarianism under the Obama Regime.

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The Tea Party Movement have done a great job, wakening Americans to the dangers of Marxism and Totalitarianism under the Obama Regime.

not to mention exposing corruption in the career GOP as well.

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This is good news for Obama in the long run. With only Democrats in power, it's all too easy to just blame the Democrats for the state of everything. People think that the President and Congress actually have the power to quickly and magically cure economic woes. It's an unrealistic expectation, but it's always there. It hurt Republicans in 2008 and it's hurting Democrats this year. When the Republicans take the House, they'll start sharing some of the blame, and Obama can use them as a foil. Most likely the economy will be looking better in another two years and Obama will take the credit, but if not, he can blame the Republicans. Fair or not, it's a political advantage.

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Has there really ever been a recent US gov't that could actually "steer" the economy? I didn't think so.

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"Has there really ever been a recent US gov't that could actually "steer" the economy? I didn't think so."

William S. Bouroughs said "Contol, Controls, Control." The sad truth is that this has been the state of American economics for some time. No one is truly in control. Otherwise the system would be perfect. Certainly no one party has had control of our economy. Though we did have a budget surplus under Clinton. One that the GOP seem to ignore all the time. Based on that, we can assume that DEMS have more experience making balance than the GOP.

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Never have we had a president as divisive as this fraud Obama:

In a radio interview that aired on Univision on Monday, President Obama sought to assure Hispanics that he would push an immigration overhaul, like he pushed Obamacare down the nation's collective throat, after the midterm elections, and despite fierce opposition:

“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s gonna be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.”

Who is this imposter? What kind of American pits one group against another this way and talks about "enemies" that need punishing?????

Obama is harder on Americans than he is Al Qaeda or the Taliban.

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Never have we had a president as divisive as this fraud Obama:

WOW! That is what I said about that clown George Bush, who said that he knew the U.S. budget was a budget because it had numbers in it, and....let's see...the terrorists are trying to attack America and so are we.

Obamacare down the nation's collective throat,

Love that privatized healthcare do you. I hear now monthly dues are now between 700 to 900 a month, WITH a 3,000 dollar deductible. I would just rather risk it and die, if need be than to pay that nonsense. No wonder the economy is not getting back on track. The flippin people have NO MONEY to spend!!! I take my Japanese health care any time of the day!

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Though we did have a budget surplus under Clinton. One that the GOP seem to ignore all the time. Based on that, we can assume that DEMS have more experience making balance than the GOP.

Yeh, George pissed through that in NO TIME. GAve it all away! Not to poor people but to his rich cronies.

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Hey, Rat! I want you and tkoind2 to give me exactly "10 detailed" reasons as to Why Dems and Liberals are better for America, show us detailed solutions, prove us wrong. elaborate as to why Republicans and Conservatives are just down right bad for the country. If you can, be specific and please, just summarize it, don't deflect and stay on point. Be waiting for your answer.

Thank you.

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Quote one line where I say vote for anyone specific! Go ahead, quote away friend!! I have clearly said I an not a Democrat, do you want to see my "I am not a Democrat card?" Move on already.

I never said you were a Democrat Tkoind2, I said you wanted people to vote democrat and not republican. The reason why I haven't proposed anything is because I'm not here to propose anything. All I'm doing is pointing out that you are in effect no better than the republicans and tea party you claim have no plans. All you have are ideas that carry no substance.

As I said before, the vast majority of Americans would like your ideas but you offer no real plan on how to pay for those ideas nor how to implement them nor how to overcome some of the challenges in just implementing those ideas.

For example you keep talking about stimulus and how it will be so effective etc. yet I have pointed out that Obama's stimulus package is pretty much exactly what you have proposed and has not worked in terms of actually turning the economy around, it has kept things stable, the problem is we can't keep doing an economic stimulus.

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even resorted to personal attacks. But you have utterly failed to offer one set of reasons why we should support the candidates you advocate.

I haven't personally attacked you at all Tkoind2, nor have I advocated any candidates at all.

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Hey, Rat! I want you and tkoind2 to give me exactly "10 detailed" reasons as to Why Dems and Liberals are better for America, show us detailed solutions, prove us wrong

More environmental regulations--cleaner environment. Under GW, the Clean Air and Water Act, resulted in very polluted air, even in the Smoky Mountains in NC. More nationalized healthcare, which results in something we have here, cheaper dues and NO deductibles, which results in more money being freed up for other things in which to stimulate the economy. Repeal Don't Ask/Don't Tell, which ends discrimination and results in more talented people staying in the army. Especially translators, which, dozens if not hundreds have been forced out because of their orientation. Stupid. More regulations for chemicals. JUST watched on CNN just now, that only 200 chemicals have been regulated, out of 80,000. Kind of a thing, as it was said, that the American people are guinea pigs, until they die or are injuried, nothing happens. Unless the chemical is proven guilty, it can be sold openly on the market. Unlike in Europe where they have a program called REACH which means all chemicals are tested for safety before they are sold. More educational opportunities for students. More loans for students going to college and access for others that may not have a chance to go, to go. Under republicans, only the rich go. More scrutiny in fraudalent mortgage foreclosures. Under republicans, this is not a problem, even if you NEVER had a mortgage. No one goes to jail. Under the democrats, people might, might, might have a chance to go to jail for a few days. More Wall street regulations. Need I say more??!!! Finishing the Iraq mess and totally getting out!! Closing Gitmo! I mean, come on, it has been two years already. Under republicans, torture was not torture, and even if it was, it was not a problem as the people are terrorists and so they deserve it. Closing tax loop holes. This was discussed but never finished, and finishing, finishing the Bush tax cuts which costs the economy 3 and half trillion dollars. Never paid for too. Time to get revenue in which to run the flippin the government. Under the republicans, they never, never think about generating revenue, and they never make cuts unless it is to the poor and to the most desperate. Budget sanity. STOP running the wars OFF THE BOOKS like GW did. PAY AS YOU GO. Patriots, if you are patriots, PAY FOR IT WILL YOU!!!

I am just beginning!!!

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Al Franken says it best with this story:

When the President took office, not only had the car gone into a ditch, the car had flipped over and was rolling down a steep embankment. We, the American people, were in the back seat, and the Bush Administration had removed all the seat belts, so we were all flying around the interior of this car as it was rolling and flipping and careening down this steep embankment, headed to a 2,000 foot cliff. And at the bottom of that cliff were jagged rocks. And alligators.Now, at noon on January 20th, 2009, as the car was careening toward the cliff, George W. Bush jumped out of the car.President Obama somehow managed to dive in through the window, take the wheel and get control of the thing just inches before it went over the precipice. Then, he and Congress starting pushing this wreck back up the embankment. Now you can’t push a car up an embankment as fast as it careens down the embankment, especially if some people are trying to push against you. But we got it going in the right direction. And slowly we’ve gotten ourselves up the embankment, out of the ditch and onto the shoulder of the road.

His point? This: Well, they may have the powerful corporations on their side. But we’ve got you.

So, get out and vote... It'll make a difference.

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why any voter would vote for the party that destroyed the clinton surplus with welfare for the rich and out of control spending is insane. Only the WMD in Iraq crowd could be so deluded as to vote the republicans into power again.

If it happens we are one step closer to fulfilling the bush-republican dream of a worldwide depression.

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WOW! That is what I said about that clown George Bush, who said that he knew the U.S. budget was a budget because it had numbers in it, and....let's see...the terrorists are trying to attack America and so are we.

hey, Obama thinks the US has 57 states. he said he also sees dead people.

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I am just beginning!!!

your 10 detailed reasons didn't even happen! lol... to be a dreamer...

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Are we preaching religion or talking about politics here? Are Americans that simple-minded that we need storytime to explain to them what just happened in the last decade?

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jason,

Are Americans that simple-minded that we need storytime to explain to them what just happened in the last decade?

thank you for offering your brains for us stupid ordinary folks but we do understand, that's why "All signs point to Republican victories: polls"

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423 posts. Wow. The looming blowout at the polls and the consequential refudiation of Obama and his Agenda looks like it will be a 9-11 for the Left.

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"why any voter would vote for the party that destroyed the clinton surplus with welfare for the rich and out of control spending is insane. Only the WMD in Iraq crowd could be so deluded as to vote the republicans into power again"

YES!!! Well stated. The answer to your query is sadly simple. Many voters out there don't bother to learn enough to make truly informed decisions. Many other vote with their religion and not with their heads. And others vote based on catchphrases rather than data.

Thus you have a T-party revolution.

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Tim - no need for 9/11 comments. but i do agree with the rest of what you said.

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@Jason

I know to you we are the lowest life form on the planet. I mean, what are stupidest. All you Europeans are the creme de la creme of the human society and reached the ladder of social epitome. Tell us lowly Americans how we should solve our political conundrum.

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"why any voter would vote for the party that destroyed the clinton surplus

myth. there was no "clinton surplus". the surplus was from capital gains taxes caused by the dot com bubble. when the bubble burst, so did the surplus. had nothing to do with clinton, unless you want to think that Gore created the internet. :-)

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No surplus? Why that would mean... That there was no cutting of govt spending in the 90's :0

Somebody alert Newt Gingrich !!!

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myth. there was no "clinton surplus". the surplus was from capital gains taxes caused by the dot com bubble. when the bubble burst, so did the surplus.

So, when George W. Bush used the projected surpluses as his rationale for tax cuts -- the surplus being an "overpayment" by the American people -- he was lying all along. Remember, Bush told Americans they could afford the tax cuts and stiil pay down the national debt.

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423 posts. Wow. The looming blowout at the polls and the consequential refudiation of Obama and his Agenda looks like it will be a 9-11 for the Left.

You know Tim, I am an expat from Florida. I was watching the BBC this morning. Rubio, a millionaire, the kind of people YOU PEOPLE WORSHIP, is 13 points ahead of his democratic rival, was it Sink, Crist, and Sink and in Hollywood Florida, there is 70 foreclosures per week, or per day. STREETS were chained-linked off. REally it was a sad, sad situation. Now, the republicans say, what we need is more creative (destructive) capitalis---read foreclose on these losers. Even if they NEVER had a mortgage in the first place!!!! In short, it is a sad situation in which the democrats are really trying to please the mainline republicans like Crist who are forced out of the party as they are not extreme enough. Glad I have a stock of beers and 73 bottles of wine to watch this drama play itself out.

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"All signs point to Republican victories"

We can include among them the shrieking of partisan Dems here.

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Party of the Rich?

Democrats have outspent Republicans for the approaching elections...

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@bass4funk

"All you Europeans are the creme de la creme of the human society and reached the ladder of social epitome. Tell us lowly Americans how we should solve our political conundrum."

Maybe you should talk less and listen more. American's have become so arrogant and selfdeluded that we cannot look at ourselves with a critical eye. This is very dangerous.

We have to be able to take a step back and be honest about what has happened over the last 30 or so years. That will quickly clear up all the propaganda BS and party line nonsense. When you look at the history, the real story of the past three decades, the news doesn't help either party. Both have failed to do the right thing by the American people. Both have broken or forgotten their promises. And neither are, in the end, the party looking out for the people.

I don't know where your religious devotion to a political party comes from. You sould more like IRA than GOP. Like you are leading some kind of revolution. When in fact the T-party will do nothing more than blend into the background once they are in power. If you want revolution, then work for a real one and stop fooling yourself into thinking maintstream American politics will every be anything other than the status quo.

Real change is needed to put people back to work and restore American families to a state where they can be on stable ground again. No T-party, GOP or DEM is going to deliver that this year or in the next several years. Why? Because our government is incapable of real change as long as the ones really defining policy don't give a damn about working people beyond keeping them quiet.

Forget the GOP, DEM, Left, Right and all these other distractions. Forget tiny government pipe dreams and claims of Utopia. None of that matters.

All that matters friend are jobs for people to work, economic hope for families, strong communities, access to education and health care and making sure we secure our future independence from oil and dirty energy.

The rest is smoke and mirrors and distracting the voting public from what they really need.

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In short, it is a sad situation in which the democrats are really trying to please the mainline republicans like Crist who are forced out of the party as they are not extreme enough.

Spoken by a man who obviously has no clue about America, or the Republican party. Crist wasn't forced out. He left, crying like a little girl, because Republican voters wouldn't go along with a lefty who endorsed Obamacare. He then moved even further left, to try to attract Dems to vote for him. Proving, he is nothing more then a political opportunist, not a principled individual.

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In short, it is a sad situation in which the democrats are really trying to please the mainline republicans like Crist who are forced out of the party as they are not extreme enough.

Pure gold. Crist was about as principled a Republican as Arlen Specter.

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This convo about Crist really says it all... If youre not 100% on message your not on the team :(

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"nothing more then a political opportunist."

Sounds like he has a lot in common with the T-party opportunists.

Now in defence of of the person you are both attacking, it is any wonder that people are having a hard time understanding such a confused party? After all the GOP seems to be having an internal battle between their "far left" and "far right" ends of the right wing. Like a right pinki calling the right thumb left wing. Silly and understandably difficult for anyone intelligent to grasp.

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Now in defence

["defense", in American usage...]

of of the person you are both attacking,

No one is attacking them. They made their choices and will have to live with them.

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Tim, the problem I have with your thinking is this. You have all these definitions of what constitutes American. But I can tell you with absolute certainty that I could produce contrary examples to every one of your definitions from ordinary American people.

Do you really think that Americans all fit into your neat little definitions of American thinking and politics? They don't. There is considerable diversity in the US and that is our strong point. Something you need to remember when judging who is "American" and "UnAmerican." Did you not learn anything from McCarthy and his witch hunts? Your thinking in this regard is potentially totalitarian.

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Did you not learn anything from McCarthy and his witch hunts? Your thinking in this regard is potentially totalitarian.

I learned that the Left can't let go of McCarthy, and ironically they refuse to admit Robert Kennedy was his most trusted aide.

No McCarthyism in Hollywood today, eh tkoind2? I mean, conservatives are equally represented in the film business, yeah? It's not like they get blacklisted, is it , tkoind?

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Tim... you missed the point. My point is that we are supposed to be a free country. If I was born and raised in America, I have as much right to my thinking and beliefs as you do. I don't question your "American-ness" and I am offended seeing how often you call into question the "American-ness" of people here. Don't you see how dangerous that is against the civil rights and freedoms that America is supposed to stand for? These are people, not numbers or drones in a party. Their freedom is too precious to allow someone to point fingers questioning their definition as "American."

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Maybe you should talk less and listen more. American's have become so arrogant and selfdeluded that we cannot look at ourselves with a critical eye. This is very dangerous.

Ever notice people that try to offer people advice are the ones that actually are in serious need of it themselves? Lol

American's have become arrogant? How about looking at our government! Washington has gotten so arrogant and the people and the President himself ooze with highest level of arrogance and self-delusion. The American people want to be heard and NOT to be lead like mindless sheep. Talk about political hypocrisy at its very worst!

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What really shows the childishness about that neologism is that French fries originated in Belgium. It's like thinking a Caesar salad has any relation to a Roman Caesar. It's just a name.

At least with our Fries either French or Freedom however you want to call them. We use ketchup!!!

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I mean, conservatives are equally represented in the film business, yeah? It's not like they get blacklisted, is it , tkoind?

You mean to say there is no possible way that it's self-selection? That is to ask if you are saying that a corollary would be that in the business world, liberals are blacklisted? Cuz you know, they're not so well represented there, are they?

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Bass4funk. If the American people really want to be heard, then why aren't they in the streets raising their voices. I think the majority of Americans are rational enough to know that this T-party movement is the latest distraction and little more. I would go a step beyond to say that many voters are probably voting out of protest and not out of real anticipation that these loons are going to really accomplish something.

You prove the point of arrogance by thinking this group is the second coming of some kind of political Christ. When in fact they are yet another example of grandstanding and empty promises.

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Tim... you missed the point. My point is that we are supposed to be a free country.

We are free. Or rather, despite the best efforts of Obama, Pelosi and Reid we are still free. Yours is the side arguing for greatly expanded powers of government, and gov control of every sphere of our lives.

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"Yours is the side arguing for greatly expanded powers of government, and gov control of every sphere of our lives."

Nonsense again Tim. How is providing health care for the millions of people who need affordable health care a control? It is a benefit for people who desperately need it.

No one is trying to take away your rights. This thinking is too extreme. Be reasonable, if 72% of Americans want government involvement in health care, then government should be involved. Private industry only cares about profits and that leaves far too many Americans out with either too expensive, not enough or no health care. This is not right and barbaric by first world industrial standards.

You need to differentiate between benefits and controls, they are not the same.

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How is providing health care for the millions of people who need affordable health care a control?

This grows tiresome. Did you read any of the bill? For starters, ObamaCare will create 150 new federal agencies.

if 72% of Americans want government involvement in health care

But they don't. More and more want ObamaCare repealed. As I have said before - if Obamacare is so great can you show me a Dem on the campaign trail taking credit for it? Cuz I can show you Dems trying to tell us they were tricked into supporting it.

Private industry only cares about profits

But you (I think it was you) were on here the other day saying Gates has donated millions to charity. As has Buffet. Dick Cheney and his wife give millions away....

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Tim. I will remind you that I am not a fan of the Obama plan. I advocate full universal health care for all Americans. You should know this by now.

We are just fine in the projects thank you.

"But they don't. More and more want ObamaCare repealed."

Just because they don't like Obama's solution does not mean they don't want universal care. I think the reality is 72% DO WANT CARE. Most likely they felt Obama's plan falls short of a real solution. And I agree. It should and must be full universal care.

Not me. Sure the private sector does donations. Who said they don't. Is it a solution to all of our key problems. Obviously not. The private sector will not solve health care because doing so is in direct conflict with their purpose to earn profits. They will not solve energy until forced to do so. And they will buy government to do their bidding even if it is in direct conflict with the needs of the masses.

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Wow, somebody on this board actually reads legislation. Which pages in the bill can we refer to that authorize these new agencies?

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Junnama, what bill are you talking about?

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Healthcare bill :|

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How many times do I need to write that I am not an advocate of the current health care solution? Repeal it. No problem for me.

But replace it with Universal Health Care for ALL Americans.

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My point is that we are supposed to be a free country.

Point nailed! We're "supposed" to be FREE and yet, the majority of Americans are not happy with Obama healthcare, nor do the majority want universal healthcare as in, who is going to pay for it and how and more notably, "how long" do you think that as a nation we can sustain such a radical medical overhaul? How are we supposed to be a free country when the Americans aren't happy with the way this administration is showing no signs of fiscal restraint?!

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Tim. I will remind you that I am not a fan of the Obama plan. I advocate full universal health care for all Americans. You should know this by now.

Personally, I advocate, that anyone who wants universal health care, should move to a country where they offer it, not try to force this bad scheme on an unwilling country the way Obama and co did.

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Personally, I advocate, that anyone who wants universal health care, should move to a country where they offer it, not try to force this bad scheme on an unwilling country the way Obama and co did.

All you have to do is see the chaos unfolding in Europe more and more to see how insane overall his idea is. But I agree, if anyone of you Liberals want to move to France like Johnny Depp or Molly Ringwald, I'm all for it. As a matter of fact, most of the Liberal elite Hollywood should go make a home in Sweden If I want to be like Europe, I'll move there. Lived there for many years. They can have it! Yes, I do believe that our medical system is in need of a serious overhaul, but not like this.

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