America's widening role in Syria's civil war

And to this very day, Donald Trump has yet to utter even a single word of criticism towards Russia or Vladimir Putin. Not a word. It is almost as if the Russians have compromising information on him.

yet to utter even a single word of criticism towards Russia or Vladimir Putin

For what? For US shooting of a Syrian plane in the Syrian air space?

CrazyJoe: In regards to Syria, what criticisms do you have of Russia's roll?

Im not defending the charictors of Putin or Trump but I have to say that Russia has made far less mistakes in Syria than the US. Do you agree?

"Widening its role" should read illegally invading a sovereign nation. Oh sorry...illegally invading another sovereign nation.

Shooting down a plane on a mission to bomb IS while wanting to defeat IS?

Even giving the benefit of the doubt to DT about allies against Asad, isn't he running after 2 rabbits?

The US has no business playing airforce for jihadist rebels in a foreign country, without being invited to do so. Have they learned nothing from Obama/Clintons disastrous intervention in Libya?

I was for Trump precisely because he promised to stop this stupid meddling. Now he behaves like Clinton. I am thoroughly disappointed. Stop supporting your stupid "vetted rebels" and get out!!

   Russia, which is flying its own air war in Syria to prop up President Bashar al-Assad, condemned the incident and said it had shut off a special "deconfliction" hotline with the U.S. military, through which the two powers can warn each other of operations and avoid mishaps.

Unfortunately, the "deconfliction" hotline wasn't seem to be working anyway:

2 hours before the downing of the Syrian jet, the U.S. military used that “deconfliction” channel to communicate with Russia to tell Syria that it's the Kurdish SDF that Syria was attacking. The town of Ja’Din is controlled by the SDF, and ISIS has been driven from the area for some time. NATO jets even tried to stop the fighting by flying close to the ground and at a low speed (a maneuver known as “show of force”).

2 hours after communicating with Russia on that "deconfliction" channel, despite the calls to halt the fighting and the NATO jets overhead, a Syrian Su-22 jet arrived with little warning and attacked the Kurds anyway. NATO jets nearby even tried to hail the Syrian jet that had been dropping bombs on the Kurds, to no avail. So to stop it dropping more bombs on the Kurds, it was shot down. NATO has to stand by their Kurd friends.

So what use is that "deconfliction" hotline if it didn't work? It had 2 hours to do its work - and it still didn't work.

@lostrune2

Unfortunately, the "deconfliction" hotline wasn't seem to be working anyway

The other side tells a very different story. The Syrians say there were absolutely no attempts by the US to contact.

Kurdish SDF that Syria was attacking

Contary to YPG/YPJ forces SDF should not be described as Kurdish. Kurds comprise less the half of SDF which are a diverse collection of gangs of all ethnic and political allegiances (most of them do not deserve the word "democratic").

NATO has to stand by their Kurd friends

So, Russia also has to stand by its Syrian friends, right? And it has the right to shoot down US planes in case they attack Syrian forces (like they did in Sep.2016 near Deir ez Zor, killing dozens of Syrian soldiers), right?

@lostrune2

Unfortunately, the "deconfliction" hotline wasn't seem to be working anyway

The other side tells a very different story. The Syrians say there were absolutely no attempts by the US to contact.

Seems it's now up to Russia to confirm or deny since they're the middleman

Still, the presence and "show of force" maneuver by NATO planes there should had given hint that something must be up

Kurdish SDF that Syria was attacking

Contary to YPG/YPJ forces SDF should not be described as Kurdish. Kurds comprise less the half of SDF which are a diverse collection of gangs of all ethnic and political allegiances (most of them do not deserve the word "democratic").

The Kurd YPG/YPJ actually started out as the dominant force within the SDF, but as the SDF grew as more groups joined in, they don't dominate it anymore. However, the YPG/YPJ remains still the main leading force within the SDF

NATO has to stand by their Kurd friends

So, Russia also has to stand by its Syrian friends, right? And it has the right to shoot down US planes in case they attack Syrian forces (like they did in Sep.2016 near Deir ez Zor, killing dozens of Syrian soldiers), right?

Yes, sure they do. When the US makes that kind of grave mistake, they should know they could pay that price. Precedence though should still be given to hailing to warn (or using this "deconfliction" hotline, if it actually works) before action is taken

(As for the Syrian pilot, unconfirmed latest reports from pro-government sources close to the pilot's family say that a group linked to the SDF south of the town has him)

I figured all of the "Hillary will start World War III in Syria" people would be flooding this thread. Looks like it wasn't that big of a deal to them.

This is the consequence of Trumps incompetence as POTUS.   When he gave more "free" reign for military actions to be carried out without overseeing certain military operations (pretty much because he felt it was too much work for him...) we ended up with more of this.  Added up with a half-*ssed mess of "cabinet" choices , administrative postions, and "advisors" with mostly "yes" men, brown-nosers, and family members.  And the people who are more than willing to give Trump good advice, he won't listen to unless he feels it will make him look good.

"Widening its role" should read illegally invading a sovereign nation. Oh sorry...illegally invading another sovereign nation.

Rhetoric.  The US has no intentions of staying in Syria should the country stabilize.   Russia will probably stay on afterwards.

Honest Dictator:

This is the consequence of Trumps incompetence as POTUS.

He promised precisely NOT do to this. I do hope so much he still wakes up and comes to his senses.

Clinton on the other hand, ANNOUNCED her asinine plans for "no fly zones" in areas where Russian planes are already flying during the friggin election debate. I assume you did not notice that.

Good grief, with Potus Clinton we might very well already be in WW3.

lostrune2

Seems it's now up to Russia to confirm or deny since they're the middleman

Russian MOD said there were no attempts from the US to contact. It makes sense, too little time for a conversation when the jet appeared where the incident took place. Definitely not "two hours".

Still, the presence and "show of force" maneuver by NATO planes there should had given hint that something must be up

In their air space Syrian planes can whatever they like. NATO planes should perform their shows in their air space.

YPG/YPJ remains still the main leading force within the SDF

SDF is too fractured to tell who is the main force. And Kurds are after their own agenda (creating Kurdistan).

When the US makes that kind of grave mistake, they should know they could pay that price

 Let's hope that such stupid actions will not lead us to WWIII.

Seems it's now up to Russia to confirm or deny since they're the middleman

Russian MOD said there were no attempts from the US to contact. It makes sense, too little time for a conversation when the jet appeared where the incident took place. Definitely not "two hours".

Do you have the link where the Russian MOD says that?

The US maintains it's 2 hours before the incident took place, so that's more than enough time

Still, the presence and "show of force" maneuver by NATO planes there should had given hint that something must be up

In their air space Syrian planes can whatever they like. NATO planes should perform their shows in their air space.

That maneuver was to let the Syrian forces know that it's not ISIS that they're attacking but the SDF. It's not for nothing.

What's the point to continue the attack when it's not ISIS? If anything, the NATO planes tried to stop Syria wasting resources attacking not-ISIS.

YPG/YPJ remains still the main leading force within the SDF

SDF is too fractured to tell who is the main force. And Kurds are after their own agenda (creating Kurdistan).

The Kurds are still the leading force since they're the best equipped and most organized of the groups. How do ya think they coordinate so effectively they've been winning vast areas in the battlefield? Yes, they do have their own agenda, but ISIS is the worst option. (For one, people can reason deals with the Kurds, but can't with ISIS.)

When the US makes that kind of grave mistake, they should know they could pay that price

Let's hope that such stupid actions will not lead us to WWIII.

Hopefully