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Trump bets re-election on immigration, socialism

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By STEVE PEOPLES

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Trump supporters are too ignorant to separate socialism as an economic system and the autocrats and dictators that have abused it. Fear monger is easy amongst the poorly educated.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

Yet the Republican president drew a new frame around his Democratic opposition, warning in his second State of the Union address that the rise of socialism on the left threatens the nation's core values.

What he means is that the 1% and large companies should be allowed to make as much money as they want unfettered by any form or regulation or concern for overall community impact. Last time I looked at the statistics, nearly 70% of Americans want some form of government sponsored national health care and education that provides equity for all. If you define "socialism" as the provision of equitable and equally accessible social services then Trump and his cronies are clearly at odds with the majority of the peoples wishes. But then again, he knows this but has no interest in changing to a system that would really benefit his own supporters. The same applies to the democrats

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Trump will win in 2020 because he has the backing of AIPAC and because the Democrats are in disarray.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Anyone following 'WORLD' threads on JT has seen numerous examples of the word 'socialism' used by Trump backers in the same way evangelicals use the word 'devil' - to create imagined but unseen enemies. Expect to see it repeated as a meme ad infinitum ad nauseam.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

What he means is that the 1% and large companies should be allowed to make as much money as they want unfettered by any form or regulation or concern for overall community impact

He also means that we shouldn’t talk about the socialist welfare military programs. They prefer to avoid discussions that expose their hypocrisy.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Below is a list of US corporations receiving the largest federal contracts. Would Trump supporters also call this 'socialism', or instead just corporate welfare?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_100_Contractors_of_the_U.S._federal_government

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Mottoes for Trump and the Republican Party he leads:

"Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor"

"Privatizing profits and socializing losses"

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Trump will win in 2020 because he has the backing of AIPAC and because the Democrats are in disarray.

And Putin and the Saudis.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Oh yeah let’s start using the military as an example of “socialism” and see how far that gets you in a general election.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Is subsidizing corporate farms another example of ‘socialism’ in the minds of Trump/GOP backers?

Who Benefits Most From Farm Subsidies?According to the Cato Institute, the largest 15 percent of farm businesses receive 85 percent of the subsidies. 

https://www.thoughtco.com/us-farm-subsidies-3325162

the top 10 farm subsidy recipients each received an average of $18.2 million – that’s $1.8 million annually, $150,000 per month, or $35,000 a week. With the median household income of $60,000 a year, these farmers received more than 30 times the average yearly income of U.S. families. https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2018/08/14/mapping-the-u-s-farm-subsidy-1-million-club/#6a8279983efc

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Oh yeah let’s start using the military as an example of “socialism” and see how far that gets you in a general election.

Another example of the right trying to silence an uncomfortable truth.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Please add that to the 2020 Dem platform. The US populace who want military benefits.....join the military.

And they earn those benefits by their service. Not just given things they didn’t earn taken from others who did.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Oh yeah let’s start using the military as an example of “socialism” and see how far that gets you in a general election.

Would Trump backers consider military contractors working for putative 'private' corporations, e.g. a person in Japan working as a 'journalist' and receiving benefits similar to someone on active military duty, e.g. health care and PX privileges, part of a socialistic system?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

And they earn those benefits by their service. Not just given things they didn’t earn taken from others who did.

They earn their pay and get housing allowances, etc. The socialized medical and dental care is pure cream. By your logic teachers and law enforcement should receive the same benefits.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Oh yeah let’s start using the military as an example of “socialism” and see how far that gets you in a general election.

Maybe you are right in terms of it being a tactical mistake, but it doesn’t change the fact that it ticks the socialist boxes.

The ‘fiscal conservatives’ usually fall silent when it comes to military spending.

By the way, are the ‘fiscal conservatives’ who jumped on the Trump train not bothered about Trump’s lack of concern about running up more debt?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Half the Dems who were supposed to run didn’t and probably won’t. Warren and Gabbard were taken out by their own team. Top 3 Dems in Virginia all done, that state is flipping to Trump.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Big business rule #1 - profits are privatized, corporate losses are socialized..... is this the dangerous socialism Trump is warning about??

3 ( +6 / -3 )

anyone can apply for a contractor job and anyone can join the military. (But but transgenders!! Ok....anyone who meets the qualification standards)

military members are not paid by taking from the high earning and giving to the lower people. You get paid because you earn it, often at huge personal risk.

If you want the benefits, sign up. Your job presumably provides you similar benefits, is your company socialist too?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

If you want the benefits, sign up. Your job presumably provides you similar benefits, is your company socialist too?

Name some private-sector jobs that provides free dental and medical care. Housing allowances? The military lives off of money from society.

Socialism is not stealing money from the rich and giving it to the poor. You'd do well to do a bit if non-bubble research.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Trump supporters are too ignorant to separate socialism as an economic system and the autocrats and dictators that have abused it. Fear monger is easy amongst the poorly educated

Yeah, kinda like Republicans are racist argument, which that notion got shot to crap this week on multiple fronts.

The ‘fiscal conservatives’ usually fall silent when it comes to military spending. 

I can answer that one, Obamacare won’t stop the Chinese, Russians or North Koreans, Jihadists, now for Democrats the best gift they can give these countries/people would love a capitalist and neutered US. So yeah, I prefer a US military on steroids. That’s why Reagan was always my hero.

By the way, are the ‘fiscal conservatives’ who jumped on the Trump train not bothered about Trump’s lack of concern about running up more debt?

Yes, but better the military then on more entitlements and by the way, if we should ever have a Democrat President in the WH, they’ll triple that with their socialist entitlements free for all anyway surpassing any future military budget.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Yeah, kinda like Republicans are racist argument, which that notion got shot to crap this week on multiple fronts.

No, it didn't get shot to crap.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

anyone can apply for a contractor job

Using Trump and his supporters definition of 'socialism', would you call those contractors part of a system of socialism? After all, they're getting paid by the national government; they're not generating their own wealth like my family and friends with privately owned small businesses that get 100% of their money from fellow private citizens.

and anyone can join the military.

My comments have nothing to do with individuals in the military. Instead, having witnessed first hand how military contractors bilk the government, and are enabled by government employees and politicians, I'm calling out those who abuse the system.

The military spends a ridiculous amount of its budget on civilian contractors. In 2016, the DoD awarded over $300 billion in defense contracts. $100 billion of that went to just five companies: Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Gruman, and General Dynamics.

If you’re saying “good for them”, you’re right. The CEO’s of those companies took home a combined $100 million in pay that was partly subsidized by your tax dollars. And if you think that all that spending is creating jobs, the evidence doesn’t support that claim.https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/states-cities/the-disturbing-ways-we-waste-money-our-military-budget.html/

>

4 ( +6 / -2 )

@bas4 but better the military then on more entitlements 

Would you consider it an entitlement when government contractors, for example someone working on US military projects in Japan, get dental, medical care and can use the PX, which sells goods at prices lower than those found in privately owned stores nearby?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Your job presumably provides you similar benefits, is your company socialist too?

My company pays for my benefits through profits. The military is stealing money from the people, and redistributing it to the military.

Socialist welfare.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

The word "socialist" is everywhere on FoxNews.com. In the articles, and half the comment section is mostly cut and paste about socialism. That's the power of the bubble and a single news source that dominates.

The GOP runs on fear. Fear creates reliable voters. Socialism is good since they know their uneducated base won't understand nuanced differences.

But....that being said...I still think it will be about immigrants. The draw is just too easy for the GOP. Socialism calls will die down and they will go back to creating fear of Latinos.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

No, it didn't get shot to crap.

Yeah, it did. Let’s see you have in VA a governor who is a racist, a Lt. governor who is accused of sexual assault and the 3rd in line who admitted to apply shoe polish and being on a photo with a man dressed in a Klan robe and we didn’t talk about Warren apologizing for posing as a Native American when she said, she didn’t. Democrats have a very racist awakening week. I’m flustered.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Let's see how the Democrats handle VA. My guess is those three will be gone.

Steve King of the GOP defends white supremacists and he gets....his committees taken away. Slap on the wrist.

Lets see how it plays out and how each party handles it.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

"It's creeping throughout the entire party," Conway told Fox News Radio's "Brian Kilmeade Show" on Wednesday. "It will be a theme in 2020. So, this president has to knock it down in early 2019."

Here's the Trump platform in a nutshell - lie, fear-monger, fuel anger... He has to do that as he has nothing else to run on. His "accomplishments" are nothing more than a "to-do" list from Putin - with pulling out of the INF Treaty last week being the latest - US gets the blame, Russia gets to build its new intermediate range missiles.

if "socialism" is going to be weaponized as a label for Democrats, "fascism" must be used in the same way against Republicans; the attacks against a free press, the coziness (and colluding) with dictators and autocrats, the links to white supremacists and the KKK (Steve King)...

That, and Democrats must stoke the ever increasing civil war within the conservative movement. More and more pundits and media-types are breaking with Trump - Ann Coulter is now calling him a "lunatic", who is "lazy and incompetent"... Expect more to do this as they think they can make more money selling books.

But all that pales in comparison to what Mueller and the US District Attorney in NY will soon release on all the crimes and corruption of the Trump Crime Family - he has to distract from that.

So we'll hear more about "socialism" and no doubt Don Jr is now down in Honduras recruiting more caravan members for a march to the border - all from the Trump sweat shop factories there that make his clothing line.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

they’ll triple that with their socialist entitlements free for all anyway surpassing any future military budget.

Considering that the US spends roughly 16% of the budget on defense discretionary spending, which is roughly equal to the sum of ALL other discretionary spending, that's as ridiculous a statement as possible.

Literally the United States spends as much money on defense as it does on EVERYTHING ELSE it has discretion over (take away Social Security, etc).

So we can stop the fear mongering any time.

And if you want to argue the deficit... tell that to the nearly $1 Trillion that Trump's tax cut for the rich has added to the US National Debt in just 1 year. And that deficit is expected to continue for as long as projections continue out.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

I love the smell of socialism in the morning.

Sadly, the US has been denied even a hint of it over the decades. With such an astounding lack of knowledge over what socialism means (clue: not Venezuela, the DPRK or China) and the basic tenets of, it's hardly surprising.

And as long as the oligarchs and corrupt billionaires continue to trample the good people of the USA underfoot, there will be no delivery for the people.

From the biggest stage in U.S. politics, President Donald Trump made clear that on the defining issue of his presidency — immigration — he cannot or will not change his hard-line approach heading into 2020.

Which is why the sickly, sniffy, snorting demagogue is dooming his party's chances for re-election.

Great news for the rest of the world! Sniffles all round for his synthetic supporters.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Another example of the right trying to silence an uncomfortable truth.

A written disagreement is not “silencing” the opinions of the Left - truthful or otherwise. An example of silencing an opposing position is when mobs of activist college students and cowed administrators deny conservatives the ability to speak on their campuses their physical and verbal harassment.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

I think the Pringles guy and a few other JT posters should move to Canada or Venezuela to see how wonderful their medical system is doing. Canadians who can afford it, go to the US for treatment. Can you name one successful country where socialism works? Thought so...

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

A written disagreement is not “silencing” the opinions of the Left - truthful or otherwise. An example of silencing an opposing position is when mobs of activist college students and cowed administrators deny conservatives the ability to speak on their campuses their physical and verbal harassment.

So it's not the content that matters, it's the medium.

Got it.

More right-wing Twister.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

@bass4funk

I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with racism among the liberal party but refuse to recognize its majority in the right. The KKK label themselves as fully pledged republicans. Trump's entire campaign is made possible by the white-man and the idea of an America with less minorities. Unfortunately for him, Q3 of his presidency is not going to bring much of anything to the table in terms of luring his slowly swindling base back to his side. Not saying that there aren't minorities that will vote for Trump, but its such a small number that it doesn't even matter. Get real, dude. It must be exhausting to always feel like you need to be defensive.

Unfortunately for you, the millennials swing left and soon will start replacing the boomers. Hope for your sake you don't have too much time left on your clock because you're going to have to live with a liberal future, for better or worse.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

@vernon watts

You must not understand the meaning of socialism if you think Canada and Venezuela are socialist nations...I almost spit my coffee up reading that...lol

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Can you name one successful country where socialism works? Thought so...

Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Ireland for starters.

Indeed, Ireland's fathers of the Rising and declaration of Independence were socialist.

Something which the Irish-American lobby in the US forgot over the years.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Democrats have a very racist awakening week. I’m flustered.

But never flustered when the racist GOP shows its true colors.

Odd, that.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Can you name one successful country where socialism works? Thought so...

Canada. Recently ranked top country in the world for quality of life. With all their evil healthcare and aversion to guns.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Trump supporters are too ignorant to separate socialism as an economic system and the autocrats and dictators that have abused it. 

The problem is that abuse, violence and authoritarianism is largely inevitable whenever socialism is implemented by using the coercive power of the state. This is clearly evidenced by history.

Nothing within our free capitalist societies prevents people who aspire to socialist values or the socialist utopia from forming their own voluntary socialist communities, co-ops, mutuals, voluntary societies, etc. So why do so few even attempt to implement socialism on a small scale in their neighbourhoods and communities? Presumably the proposed virtues of socialism would attract many people to these projects. Why is it that the vast majority of socialists are just waiting until they gain control of the political system and the state's monopoly on violence and coercion before they lift a finger to usher in the socialist utopia? It's something to think about.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

The problem is that abuse, violence and authoritarianism is largely inevitable whenever socialism is implemented by using the coercive power of the state. This is clearly evidenced by history.

Abuse, violence and authoritarianism happens whenever a state becomes coercive. This is irregardless of political ideology. It is certainly not a Socialism issue alone. Look at China - extreme Capitalism within a coercive state that uses violence and authoritarianism to control the people.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Ireland for starters.

If you believe any of these countries are actually socialist, please provide your definition of socialism. Please also provide the dictionary defintion of socialism so that we can compare the two.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

If you believe any of these countries are actually socialist, please provide your definition of socialism. Please also provide the dictionary defintion of socialism so that we can compare the two.

The only definition that is relevant is that of Socialism used by those who are describing it. In this case, that is the right, and they call health care and any service for the people Socialism. What they are describing isn't really socialism, but we need to work with their definition of it in order to debate what they are saying.

Canada, Norway, Denmark, all these countries have social safety nets that put them in the category of that which the right is deeming 'socialist'. So they are perfectly good examples to counter the rights usage of that word.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

@M3M3M3

I don't think those are socialist countries either. But you're being pretty lazy and rude by asking him to google and post the dictionary definition of socialism, or do you not know how to google?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

LOGIC FAILURE! LOGIC FAILURE. None of this means that Republicans aren't racist, which was your claim at 7:54:

Calm down, calm down, I never said that, let’s try this again, im saying that Democrats can’t say or hold the moral high ground when it comes to accusing anyone of being racist when they have 3 of their own politicians in the same State accused of racism and sexual assault. By the looks of this now, next in line would be the Republican delegate. Wow!

Steve King of the GOP defends white supremacists and he gets....his committees taken away. Slap on the wrist.

Oh, stop! The Democrats hero was Robert Byrd mentor to Hillary. Again, not saying there aren’t racist people on the GOP side, but Democrats and liberals can’t point the finger and claim anything when they have their own racist skeletons jangling in their closets.

Lets see how it plays out and how each party handles it.

I agree.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

What many Americans (and a few non-am i have to say) still do not understand is that socialism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive and in fact complement each other. There's no such thing as a 100% 'pure' capitalist/socialist country in this world.

Miseducation of the masses is to blame here.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

It's good to see socialism on the way out in Venezuela, given the suffering the people there have gone through under hyperinflation.

By the way, are the ‘fiscal conservatives’ who jumped on the Trump train not bothered about Trump’s lack of concern about running up more debt?

Not an American voter here, but it's pretty clear from earning reports that companies have made a lot of extra profits since the big corporate tax cuts were enacted last year. Those profits don't go under the pillow case, but back into other investments.

Investments are what result in people getting hired to new jobs and more economic growth.

Extra economic growth compounds (like interest used to, when interest rates were higher) over time.

And higher economic growth will boost tax revenues over time, from what would otherwise have been the case. 

Sure, in the short-term the budget deficit is increased, but if you achieve higher economic growth over the longer-term, that is a more painless way to address the budget deficit. 

Otherwise, you'd have to slash public spending. And democracies never vote in favour of that.

If one is looking for a debt problem, look no further than Japan. The government spends 100 trillion a year now. While tax revenues are only around 65 trillion a year. And Japan has no economic growth in sight, nor any will to slash public spending (which mostly goes on the pension and social welfare/health systems). 

So from a budget deficit perspective, I'd love for Japan to have America's "problem".

There are better reasons to hate Republicans and Trump than the budget deficit, which is a quagmire that both American political parties appear equally responsible for - as is the case here in Japan but worse.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I think the Pringles guy and a few other JT posters should move to Canada or Venezuela to see how wonderful their medical system is doing.

Canada has a well functioning health care system. As we're in Japan, you may want to cite their national health care system which I use and am very happy with - price controlled so reasonable costs and easy access.

Venezulea? they're suffering from fascism - you know, that political system that Trump and his supporters so highly admire and want to emlulate.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Trump knows exactly what socialism is, I think. But he uses his own funny alternative definition for it, "liberal". It seems that a lot of what Trump plans on doing is fundamentally socialism in practice, when it comes down to US infrastructure, the way businesses should be managed, how tax money is used, how America deals with its neighbors and the world (Tariffs and Isolationism). But he calls it MAGA and calls "socialism" evil and throws the American workers who voted for him into the fire but they are too naive to realize. Prop up the farms with subsidiaries, and the steel mills with funding from taxpayers. In result, he's slowly pushing American companies to move abroad, in order to avoid his high taxes. This is all of course, due to his tariff war and "great economic boom", right? Do you know anybody that has experienced new found wealth in Trump's economic boom? I don't.

His new rhetoric appears to be, vote dem and America will turn into Venezuela. Jokes, right? Most of the mid west white-working middle class voted Trump because they are dreamers of what they will never have because they've been offered false promises to it.

I remember back in 2015/16 when Bernie was labeled a socialist because of his views on health care. Is that what Americans think socialism is? Some of you certainly think "universal health care" equals socialism. Maybe you can elaborate as to why Socialism is defined by health care. I can't figure that one out. And didn't Trump say "universal health care" would be good for America back in 2010? What happened?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

What many Americans (and a few non-am i have to say) still do not understand is that socialism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive and in fact complement each other. There's no such thing as a 100% 'pure' capitalist/socialist country in this world.

Exactly - that's how Canada, Denmark etc work. They are social democracies. It's a balance between capitalism, which provides motivation for innovation, and socialism, which provides a social safety net. It's the proper balance between rampant capitalism, which we see in America and even more extremely in China (which has even less a social safety net than America), and complete socialism, which we see in Venezuela.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

im saying that Democrats can’t say or hold the moral high ground when it comes to accusing anyone of being racist when they have 3 of their own politicians in the same

The difference being that democrats expel their racists, while the Republicans embrace and protect them.

So yes, we can in fact hold the moral highround, because the Republican party has embraced the ideals of moral degeneracy.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Not an American voter here, but it's pretty clear from earning reports that companies have made a lot of extra profits since the big corporate tax cuts were enacted last year. Those profits don't go under the pillow case, but back into other investments.

Investments are what result in people getting hired to new jobs and more economic growth.

Thirty years later, and people are still trying to claim trickle-down economics work.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Abuse, violence and authoritarianism happens whenever a state becomes coercive. This is irregardless of political ideology. It is certainly not a Socialism issue alone. Look at China - extreme Capitalism within a coercive state that uses violence and authoritarianism to control the people.

First, by definition, China is far from a capitalist economy. The means of production of the largest and most profitable industries in China are all state owned or directed. Private ownership of the means of production is only permitted insofar as it does not conflict with the interests of the Chinese state.

Second, unless everyone in your society is onboard with socialist values (unlikely), violence and coercion are baked into a socialist governmental system by virtue of the fact that allowing freedom and personal choice can undermine the success of the socialist system itself. The same simply cannot be said of capitalism. Socialism is designed to redistribute the surpluses of society. To allow those who produce these surpluses the freedom to keep their own surplus or the freedom to emigrate will eventually bankrupt the system. This is why the iron curtain had to exist and why people fleeeing North Korea must be shot.

Within a capitalist society we can freely set aside a community or even an entire city where people who prefer socialism can be free to practice socialism to their hearts content. However, the same freedom could never be extended to people who wish to practice capitalism in a socialist country. This is obviously because it would mostly be those who are producing the surpluses (that socialism relies on) who would be interested in leaving socialism. Socialist government is fundamentally built on using coercion to limit the freedoms of people creating surpluses in society.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

First, by definition, China is far from a capitalist economy.

And yet, in practice, it's capitalism run rampant.

The means of production of the largest and most profitable industries in China are all state owned or directed.

Please support this assertion.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

violence and coercion are baked into a socialist governmental system by virtue of the fact that allowing freedom and personal choice can undermine the success of the socialist system itself.

Are we talking about real Socialism, or Socialism as the right uses the word to denigrate healthcare? I don't see how real Socialism has any relevance, since we're talking about Trump's usage of the world. And I don't see Canada and the Scandinavian countries having violence and coercion baked into their governmental systems, so I can't agree with you.

The same simply cannot be said of capitalism. Socialism is designed to redistribute the surpluses of society.

Healthcare is using money from the society for the care of the people in that society. You can call it redistribution of income, I call it being a responsible society.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

fxgai: Not an American voter here, but it's pretty clear from earning reports that companies have made a lot of extra profits since the big corporate tax cuts were enacted last year. Those profits don't go under the pillow case, but back into other investments. Investments are what result in people getting hired to new jobs and more economic growth.

That's the story for giving the tax cuts.

The reality is that a vast, vast majority of the money being brought back is to do stock buybacks to inflate the stock price for the company managers and investors. In reality, 62% of Americans didn't see any increase in income last year despite the economic growth, and nearly all new wealth created in the US goes to the top 10-20%.

Sure, in the short-term the budget deficit is increased, but if you achieve higher economic growth over the longer-term

Google "The Kansas Experiment." Zero of the promised benefits materialized, and Kansas actually did worse than surrounding states economically.

Tax cuts are used by the Right in the US to intentionally create deficits. Then when the red ink starts spilling they tell us we have to cut social services to balance the books. That's the long and the short of it.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The only definition that is relevant is that of Socialism used by those who are describing it. 

That's a pretty silly and potentially dangerous idea given that socialism already has a long history and a widely accepted definition within political and economic thought.

If you suddenly accept that Canada and Sweden are now socialist economies, how do you propose to explain to young people that this new Canadian and Swedish socialism have absolutely nothing to do with socialism practiced in other countries? It's non-sensical to start using the same word to describe two completely different political and economic systems.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

lincolnman: if "socialism" is going to be weaponized as a label for Democrats, "fascism" must be used in the same way against Republicans

Yep. That's how I've framed it: the socialists vs. the fascists. But we really can't compete with them since so much of their news comes from one source. If that one source writes a script about socialism, that's what all the Repubs will say simultaneously. The center and left-leaning news outlets are too many in number to have a following that can make something like that happen on our end.

Deadforgood: I remember back in 2015/16 when Bernie was labeled a socialist because of his views on health care.

SOCIALIST! is what the GOP says to get their base to ignore the message. Sanders was the perfect example of that. He spent day and night talking about working class issues like the health insurance crisis, stagnant wages, the wealth divide, etc. But three words into his message and Repubs had their fingers in their ears running away from the socialist who would destroy the country.

When Trump fans start talking about working class issues I keep telling them that they could be writing for Bernie's website. The difference is that Bernie isn't a proven scammer, a known liar, or a racist. Seems like the better choice when you SOCIALIST! SOCIALIST! SOCIALIST! oh nevermind they've already stopped listening.

Deadforgood: Unfortunately for you, the millennials swing left and soon will start replacing the boomers. Hope for your sake you don't have too much time left on your clock because you're going to have to live with a liberal future, for better or worse.

Enter voter suppression and gerrymandering. It's their plan for a future with a minority GOP controlling the majority of the government.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

 It's non-sensical to start using the same word to describe two completely different political and economic systems.

Hardly. Look at the United States, the UK, and Japan.

Three countries that can all be called democratic, and generally capitalist. All three with enough differences in political and economic systems that some could claim that there is no way that the three could be lumped in together under the same tent.

Just because a word makes you uncomfortable because of the tinge or prejudice that's been drilled into you (generally, the idea that Socialist=Communist=Bad that I remember growing up with in the USA as a child of the Reagan years), does not mean that the word doesn't apply to certain things.

And many, many successful democratic and free countries use socialist ideas. Just because something is democratic, doesn't mean it can't also be socialist.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

But never flustered when the racist GOP shows its true colors.

Odd, that

Not really, we do call them out, but it seems liberals think that they’re immune to being called racists, just go to Chicago and LA and out can see liberal racism in full bloom.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Not really, we do call them out,

Really? Then how has Steve King continued to get elected and re-elected for the past decade? The man's been racist dogwhistling since he showed up in Congress.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Are we talking about real Socialism, or Socialism as the right uses the word to denigrate healthcare?

I'm talking about socialism. period.

Healthcare is using money from the society for the care of the people in that society. You can call it redistribution of income, I call it being a responsible society.

But you aren't a doctor are you? Even within government owned healthcare systems (which most people obviously support) we still see what you call 'real socialism'. We still see a coercive limitation of freedom and a redistribution of surpluses. For example, a skilled heart surgeon who could charge 'x' for his services in a free market can only recieve 'y' since he is unable to own his own private clinic or hospital. This surplus of the doctor's production is redistributed within the system. There isn't some huge distinction between government run healthcare and 'real socialism'. It's just that most of us aren't doctors so it's not our surplus that's being appropriated.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Please support this assertion.

Just look at the lists of top 20 or 30 largest companies in China. All state owned. Oil companies, banks, insurers, railways etc.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

That's a pretty silly and potentially dangerous idea given that socialism already has a long history and a widely accepted definition within political and economic thought.

I agree. The right has been trying to redefine words continuously as if they didn’t already have meanings. Which is why when they go on about socialism, I talk about the countries that fit that of what they speak, rather than the incorrect label they try to apply.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Just look at the lists of top 20 or 30 largest companies in China. All state owned. Oil companies, banks, insurers, railways etc.

So you’re not going to support your assertion with anything other than another unsupported assertion?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Back on topic please.

Not really, we do call them out, but it seems liberals think that they’re immune to being called racists, just go to Chicago and LA and out can see liberal racism in full bloom.

You must feel lucky having a king dealt with nothing else to play. Grow up, this is isn't go fish. Nobody thinks they are immune to being called racists. Pretty sure Cinton's crime bill was a wack at black Americans. It lives on both sides. However, the way the majority of racists in America swing is to the right. You're the one who brought up the racism card today, so why don't you own up to the facts?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

It's just that most of us aren't doctors so it's not our surplus that's being appropriated.

But most of us are patients at some point in time. Tell me, what do you mean when you write about the free market? Do you mean the market that is formed after special interest groups spend billions of dollars to craft bills that favor their industries? Why should I have to pay higher than market prices for drugs?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

But you aren't a doctor are you? Even within government owned healthcare systems (which most people obviously support) we still see what you call 'real socialism'.

Again, you're not getting the point. There are very, very few, if any, pure free market or socialist economies. All economies have varied degrees of these elements. Many progressives support government owned healthcare systems, a socialist concept, but not seizing the means of production across all of the economy as is the case with much of Venezuela. Republicans however continue to lie to people and try to claim healthcare for all would turn the US into Venezuela. This is, of course, absurd. Agreed?

7 ( +9 / -2 )

The US Military is a form of socialism.

So are highways, NASA, welfare, public schools, police, fire service, emergency hospitals. Anything the govt provides and controls qualifies under the socialism definition.

Not all socialism is bad is the point.

The best fix for illegal immigration is to make it impossible to work in the USA if the person is undocumented. This will help the economic illegal immigrant issue too. If the USA wants unskilled labor from other countries, then they should setup laws that allow annual workers a timed permit, but requires them to leave to get a work permit periodically.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

You must feel lucky having a king dealt with nothing else to play. Grow up, this is isn't go fish.

What?

Nobody thinks they are immune to being called racists.

Democrats seemed to have thought so for so many years

Pretty sure Cinton's crime bill was a wack at black Americans. It lives on both sides. However, the way the majority of racists in America swing is to the right. You're the one who brought up the racism card today, so why don't you own up to the facts?

I would vehemently disagree with that. The entitlement culture under Democrats has increased as well as the desire to spread the umbrella of socialism. How can the Democrats move forward, they lost the verbal argument on that issue. Again, they are making things look too easy for Trump to glide into a second term.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

The US Military is a form of socialism.

So are highways, NASA, welfare, public schools, police, fire service, emergency hospitals. Anything the govt provides and controls qualifies under the socialism definition.

But not like Medicare or socialized medicine. There is no way, we can pay for it and maintain a strong military, police force, fire and other services we desperately need. More people are doing home education, more private companies are jumping and funding the space program, we need to fund more of these programs privately as for healthcare, just cover the 22 million that don’t have it, but you don’t need to go after 80% of the private insurance companies. With my plan, I can keep my doctor and I want to keep it like that.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

With my plan, I can keep my doctor and I want to keep it like that.

Didn't you tell us back in December that you made use of medical services on base?

In Fukuoka? To avoid using the Japanese system that you are obliged to pay into?

6 ( +10 / -4 )

American energy companies have been socializing the environmental and health costs of carbon emissions for too long. If Trump believes what he says, he'll support a tax on carbons.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Might be helpful to review President Trump address in its entirety.

Trump's full 2019 State of the Union address.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYj4cDmilxc

For the sake of enlightenment to define or at least characterise the economic and social systems, political socialist theories associated with President Trump's definition of socialism.

I don't believe President Trump fully comprehends either.

Maybe the answer can be found here.......

Barack Obama, Fabian Socialist.......

https://www.forbes.com/2008/11/03/obama-fabian-socialist-oped-cx_jb_1103bowyer.html#2e31fea317cd

3 ( +5 / -2 )

But not like Medicare or socialized medicine. There is no way, we can pay for it and maintain a strong military, police force, fire and other services we desperately need. 

Considering how gung-ho you are about border security, I would have thought you would include people like the ICE or CBP. I guess you don't think they are very important or desperately needed anymore.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Trump will win in 2020 because he has the backing of AIPAC and because the Democrats are in disarray.

And Putin and the Saudis.

You anti-Trumpers crack me up. Trump could literally start a nuclear war with Russia and you would still call him Putin's puppet until your dying breath.

Let's face it, we voted for Trump because of his policies. Most people only voted for Obama and Hillary over identity politics period.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

"He so loves this country that I don't want that to be lost," Conway said.

The Russians must be having a hearty laugh, they have this great patriot in their pockets.

America always has been an insecure democracy, the fear of communism in the last century, Socialism in this one, if you add some more appeal for the bigots, the fear of the brown and black man taking over the sooty, you have the perfect poison potion of mass hysteria.

Trump has the makings of a great demagogue, it's just that he doesn't have a rational thought in his head that has saved us all.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Not really, we do call them out, but it seems liberals think that they’re immune to being called racists, just go to Chicago and LA and out can see liberal racism in full bloom.

I've never seen Trumpists call out or even engage in dialogue, over the appalling racists in their ranks. Usually, they tend to do the "what about the libs" mantra in order to deflect their party's shortcomings, which are legion.

Any party which has bigots in the ranks needs to expel them, immediately. No caveats or conditions.

Unfortunately, for the GOP, that would mean a major decimation in the ranks.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

You anti-Trumpers crack me up. Trump could literally start a nuclear war with Russia and you would still call him Putin's puppet until your dying breath.

Trump has given us zero reason to believe he isn't Putin's pet.

Let's face it, we voted for Trump because of his policies. Most people only voted for Obama and Hillary over identity politics period.

What policies of Trump's caused you to vote for him? The wall Mexico would pay for? A better replacement to Obamacare? Smashing the system?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

I've never seen Trumpists call out or even engage in dialogue, over the appalling racists in their ranks. 

Racists? The record stands that black and hispanic people have benefited from the Trump presidency in terms of jobs alone, more than his predecessor.

And, btw, many "Trumpists" were conned by and voted for Obama, Mr. GD America himself, the first (half) black president.

So how can they be racists?

Perhaps it's because we found the emperor wore no new clothes but a radical, marxist empty suit.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

I think the Pringles guy

Pringles and Chip Star are not the same, Vern. Accuracy is key, but constantly lacking with Trumpophiles.

and a few other JT posters should move to Canada or Venezuela to see how wonderful their medical system is doing. Canadians who can afford it, go to the US for treatment

Canadians that can afford to go to the US for medical treatment do so for elective medical treatment. There's that accuracy thing again.

Rand Paul thinks the healthcare system in Canada is just fine and he has congressional medical insurance:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c3d1267e4b01c93e00cc061/amp

Someone posted before thinking.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Racists? The record stands that black and hispanic people have benefited from the Trump presidency in terms of jobs alone, more than his predecessor

Logic failure! This does not demonstrate that Trumpophiles are not racist.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Pringles and Chip Star are not the same, Vern. Accuracy is key, but constantly lacking with Trumpophiles.

Very true. One or two of the party faithful have even addressed yours truly by your moniker.

Logic failure! This does not demonstrate that Trumpophiles are not racist.

Indeed, as we know, racism is not a rational trait. It's much like sexual predators claiming nobody loves women more than they do.

Trumpists don't like being called out on their bigotry and go to elaborate lengths and falsehoods to deflect from the core problem with their leader and his hardcore base.

It's worrying, to say the least.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

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