Anger in France after 'civil war' warning over Macron's 'concessions' to Islamism

This is merely misinformation before an election. Nothing to get alarmed about.

Why do you think you need more than 50% to have a problem?

Not everyone sees the change in culture as positively as you. Their views are just as valued as yours.

Express Sister.... you and I both know that the Muslim population of all those countries is much bigger than 1%. In 2020 the UK it was about 5.2% in the census. That doesn't count over stayers and illegals and those who don't bother to answer.

Jsapc

Here's a mathematical hypothetical estimate of how long it would take for a muslim population to become a majority in european countries:

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/PRR-12-2018-0034/full/html

...which bases its math on the assumption that muslim families have +1 child as compared to cohorts on average, which is wildly unrealistic. Anway, a jump from zero to 10% in just a generation is already a demographic explosion, and the effects of islamisation grow exponentiall when you pass the 20, 30, and 40% benchmark. 50% is de facto complete islamization, as islamic parties will have absolute power. It is not like we have not seen this play out in the world before.

(For the avoidance of doubt, I'm just joshing, and think Jsapc raised good and cool points, I just thought it was neat we used the same source)

I happily concede deafeat! It took me a long time to edit my post of all its bile towards our resident racists...

Express Sister, Bravo!

(For the avoidance of doubt, I'm just joshing, and think Jsapc raised good and cool points, I just thought it was neat we used the same source)

No it's not. These are numbers from 2016, so 5 years ago:

https://www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/

Haha! I beat you by five minutes!

That number is outdated

No it's not. These are numbers from 2016, so 5 years ago:

https://www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/

5 years is not enough time to transform a country through immigration, and much less through "changing demographics". For France to be "swamped" with muslims, the 8.8% figure would have had to jump to at least 30% or 40%. This is simply physically and materially impossible in such a small time.

Nothing "xenophobic" about stating facts.

Except when your "facts" are invented.

Here's a mathematical hypothetical estimate of how long it would take for a muslim population to become a majority in european countries:

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/PRR-12-2018-0034/full/html

France could be majority (over 50%) muslim (= "swamped") by the year 2135. Belgium, 2140. The UK, 2180.

And this is of course purely hypothetical, so without taking into account the fact that in secular democracies all people (immigrants included) tend to stray away from religion with time.

That number is outdated, and it does not take in account the changing demographics because of birthrate.

People born in a country are by definition not immigrants.

Sure... Germany, Belgium, France and the UK. Swamped... too many.

Thank you for your examples. Shall we examine your claims?

Let's start with Germany.

According to statistics, of regular non-European immigrants to Germany between 2000 and 2016, 270,000 were Muslims. Of refugees, those who had their claims to asylum upheld numbered 580,000. That's a total of 850,000.

Germany has a population of 83 million. That's about 1% of the population. One percent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Germany

Next, Belgium.

Belgium has an Islamic population of about 5%. Of those, 55%, over half, are naturalised citizens, with only 37% being from Muslim majority nations. That's 37% of 5%. That's about 1.85%. Less than two percent.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep27098.4?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

France next, is it?

Wow! According to the statistics, when removing converts and illegal immigrants, Muslim immigrants (primarily from Algeria, a former French colony, and Morocco, ditto) make up an entire 5% of the population! That's one in twenty, for those keeping count at home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#Statistics

Finally, let's move to the UK.

In the UK, 690,000 regular immigrants and refugees were Muslims. (You'll note my source also supports my previous evidence of Germany's Islamic immigration statistics).

For the avoidance of doubt, the UK has a population of 66.65 million. Making the Muslim immigrant population of the UK exactly 1%. One percent.

https://www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/

You're looking at, in most cases, one in one hundred people, and at most one in twenty, and saying that Europe is "swamped". I asked you to define what you meant by "swamped", because I didn't want to mischaracterize what you said. But I think an average of 3% of the population of the countries you listed is far, FAR from being swamped.

I think your claims are, honestly, spurious.

That number is outdated, and it does not take in account the changing demographics because of birthrate. If you look at the kindergarten population, the number is already several times higher. Nothing "xenophobic" about stating facts.

You haven’t stated any facts. Do share some if you have them.

Sure... Germany, Belgium, France and the UK. Swamped... too many. Its not just spicy food and Olympic quality athletes. Not everything about the imported culture is positive.

Exceedingly poor attitude.

Jsapc

All of those countries have a total muslim population under 10% and an even smaller muslim immigrant population. Calling that "swamped" is nothing but pathetic xenophobia.

That number is outdated, and it does not take in account the changing demographics because of birthrate. If you look at the kindergarten population, the number is already several times higher. Nothing "xenophobic" about stating facts.

Germany, Belgium, France and the UK. Swamped...

All of those countries have a total muslim population under 10% and an even smaller muslim immigrant population. Calling that "swamped" is nothing but pathetic xenophobia.

Express sister....

All a little too late. Many European countries are already swamped with Muslim immigration.

Can you give some examples? Could you also qualify what you mean by the term, "swamped"?

Sure... Germany, Belgium, France and the UK. Swamped... too many. Its not just spicy food and Olympic quality athletes. Not everything about the imported culture is positive.

Coming from a military that hasn't won a war since it marched under Napoleon, unless you count the invasion of Tahiti, I wouldn't worry too much about it...

Your dismissal of France's military aside, the issue is not France going to war with another state that has its own military.

The issue is that members of the French military, who have access to arms and who are supposed to show nothing but loyalty to their leader, and the people who elected them, are threatening the government. This may come to nothing (and I suspect it will) but it is still a genuinely worrying development.

For those who keep asking "What concessions?", Radio France Internationale details some of the military's concerns - particularly the emergence of a 'parallel' Islamist society within France that shows open disdain for and defiance against the values and laws of la République. Whether you agree with their critique or not, it should come as no surprise that many soldiers, after having been sent to fight Islamist terrorists in Afghanistan, Mali, Central African Republic and elsewhere, should feel particularly galled to return home and see the spread of more radical Wahhabi and Salafist strands of Islam within their own country.

There's no spread, not more than 20 years ago when Al Qaeda was active.

Soldiers back from those conflicts have certainly a tainted opinion.

I've never been to South Africa, but the most apartheid-looking thing I've ever seen was in Paris, where a pair of French gendarmes carrying machine guns watched over dozens of Africans sprawling on the grass in Jardin Nelson Mandela.

The French gendarmes carrying machines guns are in all big public places since the terror attacks a few years back. There are many soldiers with machine guns around the Champs-Elysées, La Défense, Concorde, Louvre... Pretty much anywhere there's a lot of people. White people, mostly. So please go away with your racist rethoric. You know nothing about France.

*and their declaration was publish in a far-right media originally ...

We only got here a bunch of soldiers, leaning toward the far-right extremist party, before an election period.

They do not represent all army and certainly not the whole population.

A little thing amplified by medias.

No need to venture as far afield as Reuters, Ah_so:

https://japantoday.com/category/world/hands-off-my-hijab!-young-muslim-women-protest-proposed-french-ban

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hands-off-my-hijab-young-muslim-women-protest-proposed-french-ban-2021-05-04/

Hands off my hijab! Young Muslim women protest proposed French ban...

Sounds like the opposite of a concession.

We've seen this all before when the French colonialist army during the Algerian war of liberation were responsible for a body count of a million Arabs and when the pro-Nazi Vichy functionary, Maurice Papon, oversaw the 1961 Paris massacre of Arab protesters, hundreds of whom were killed and their bodies dumped in the Seine. History furnishes overwhelming evidence that militarism attracts humans with a fascist mentality like a magnet iron filings, an inconvenient truth that also applies to the police; the latent violence of these state-sponsored weaponized organizations is naturally papered over and sanitized to permit our pious devotion to the creed of "democracy".

Actually Emmanuel Macron did present a text (voted not yet acted) on security. The text is way more repressive and pro-active than any other before. There was a harsh debate about it but the pandemy made it a footnote on the news. He has already enough to counter the accusations of concessions.

But it's true that at a local level some elected mayors or others (of a very large range of political parties including Macron's party) made pacts and concessions over their own communities.

For the rest it's also nostalgia of the algerian independance war. The first letter was published on the anniversary on the attempted coup d'Etat (21 april 1961).

For those who keep asking "What concessions?", Radio France Internationale details some of the military's concerns - particularly the emergence of a 'parallel' Islamist society within France that shows open disdain for and defiance against the values and laws of la République. Whether you agree with their critique or not, it should come as no surprise that many soldiers, after having been sent to fight Islamist terrorists in Afghanistan, Mali, Central African Republic and elsewhere, should feel particularly galled to return home and see the spread of more radical Wahhabi and Salafist strands of Islam within their own country.

Hello everybody,

I'm giving you a list of these concessions.

Some schools are afraid to talk about sensitive subjects in class. Especially since a teacher was beheaded in the street for having organized a debate on the caricature. 

There are also people who refuse to shake hands with women, for example, in public companies. Private schools teach a rigorous version of Islam outside the rules. To close this kind of school the government has made new laws. But most of the time the police are obliged to find details (for example sharp security rules) to close these Islamist schools.

Also, there would be in France between less than 200 districts where the laws are more held by the drug traffics than the police. It's built in such a way that it's easy for them to make a "privacy". Drug trafficking is no longer controlled by large-scale criminals, but by a multitude of groups that fight each other.

This last year about 5 attacks take place in France. And less than 100 attacks have been foiled by the government since 2013.

I believe that what shocks is a liberated speech with a totally different vision of France. It's very cliché, but the most listened music often denounces the government and the "white" French of racism. And often this same music has very violent lyrics. Of course we can't generalize all this music style.

Now it's the same thing on social networks.

Many people have an islamic speech on social networks, it is very visible. Even if we don't have real numbers.

There was also the problem of associations and mosques often funded by a foreign country. 

Political associations, also, do a lot of harm to the living together under the guise of anti-racism. Many people don't want to be in a divided society like in America.

There is also the case of this young girl who had to leave her school, because it was too dangerous for her. Because she had criticized Islam. After several schools, she had to resign herself to school at home.

The government has been very violent against the yellow jackets, and many people do not understand why there is not the same violence against delinquency. And it happens that the delinquency is often Muslim, or else will be converted in prisons. The most reliable figure we have is 26% of Muslims in prison, but such statistics are almost forbidden, in any case very difficult to get.

This is only a few examples and the list is still very long, nevertheless I want to say that the rise of violence in recent years has right winged the country. Now, almost all serious candidates for the next elections are obliged to be more severe in this respect. Macron has passed a lot of laws and closed down a lot of associations in the last year. 

Between now and the end of the presidential election, there will be a lot of debate, now we are almost in a "who is tougher" situation.

Anger in France after 'civil war' warning over Macron's 'concessions' to Islamism

How typical. The presss and political establishment is worried about the letter warning about Macrons policy, not about Macrons policy. Yep, ignore the problem and blame the messenger.

It would never be surprising if major demonstrations at least against Macron's perceived weakness on the Islamist question did occur. France was the first modern republic, it got rid of its monarchy to achieve it, and it is rightly proud of its history and culture, and its national anthem - a call to arms and the best national anthem ever!. It must be galling (no pun intended!) to see its politicians making decisions which the public feels erodes the country's values. They should petition for France to follow Switzerland and put important decisions to referendums. For example a few years ago, following a referendum, the Swiss Parliament banned the building of minarets on mosques, presumably because they would spoil the traditional skyline and wake people up too early in the morning. Referendums are usually binding, and politicians would then have to be more sensitive to their voters' feelings. Vive la France1

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All a little too late. Many European countries are already swamped with Muslim immigration.

Can you give some examples? Could you also qualify what you mean by the term, "swamped"?

All a little too late. Many European countries are already swamped with Muslim immigration.

The letter is actually pretty empty, just rambling about "elders", world war 1 and 2, years of service for the army, no particular event or situation, and finishing by stating that if a civial war were to happen the army will maintain order by its own, implying going against the government.

Clearly written by the usual far right extremists.

The nations rise. Time is running out again. Now you know why the politicians are so desperate to keep their lockdowns in place and prevent the wars that are rapidly approaching. It won't take much of a spark to kick things off in any of over a dozen nations.

You forgot the rivers of blood Enoch.

LamillyToday  11:34 am JST

They have offered up their lives to destroy the Islamism that you have made concessions to on our soil," they wrote.

EH? Are they talking about the Crusades?

No, they are probably talking about this:

"These latest deaths brought to 50 the number of French soldiers killed in Mali since 2013, AFP News agency quotes army staff as saying".

So does anyone know what these ‘concessions’ are?

Any French speakers here who can clarify if ‘concessions’ is the right choice of word?

There should be no concessions to Islamists.

All major world powers eventually lost power and those they conquered eventually moved to the mother country. China's turn is next.

In scientific terms it is called Entropy.

It appears the active-duty military is very much inclined to back up the retired generals who warned the French globalists about the civil war their pro-immigration, pro-Muslim policies are creating:

The nations rise. Time is running out again. Now you know why the politicians are so desperate to keep their lockdowns in place and prevent the wars that are rapidly approaching. It won't take much of a spark to kick things off in any of over a dozen nations.

People tend to forget that the French military has been very active throughout Africa for decades. They're relatively small, but highly professional, well-equipped, and they're not a joke. And they are very, very unhappy about the invasion of Paris by the African/Arab migrations. I've never been to South Africa, but the most apartheid-looking thing I've ever seen was in Paris, where a pair of French gendarmes carrying machine guns watched over dozens of Africans sprawling on the grass in Jardin Nelson Mandela. If you didn't know better, you'd have thought they were prison guards.

When - not if - the generals begin to act, they will be greeted with rapturous support. Particularly by the young French men, who hate the situation far more than the liberal Generation Xers of JT can understand. All the "We Are the World" rhetoric, as well as the concept of intrinsic white noblesse oblige are completely foreign Anglo-American Boomerspeak to them.

Huh. I guess the military being a breeding ground for right-wing extremism isn’t an exclusively American phenomenon. We’ve just raised it to an art form.

"concessions' to Islamism"?? 

For example what?

I was thinking the same thing. This article doesn’t mention what these alleged concessions are.

The far right and Islamists - are there any remote, unpopulated French islands in the Pacific where they can put these groups?

"concessions' to Islamism"??

For example what?