Appellate judges skeptical of New York civil fraud case against Trump

"We don't have anything like that here," Friedman added, saying that nobody "lost any money."

Plainly untrue. Friedman obviously doesn't understand finance and the fact that risk determines the cost of funds. If you misrepresent the risk (as being lower) the lender loses money. That's the basis of the financial system.

"There were no victims, no complaints," 

Does not excuse a crime.

Does not excuse a crime.

What crime?

Does not excuse a crime.

What crime?

Defrauding counter parties and the tax payers by lying.

Let’s hope that the 3 remain panel members are not as ignorant of finance and markets as the 2 mentioned here.

Defrauding counter parties and the tax payers by lying.

Huh?

NEW YORK (AP) — Deutsche Bank viewed Donald Trump as a “whale” of a client, was eager to land him and eagerly cultivated a relationship that grew from $13,000 worth of revenue to $6 million in two years, according to documents presented Wednesday at the former president’s civil fraud trial. 

The defendants deny any wrongdoing. They have sought to show that the bank felt delighted, not deceived, by Trump and courted his business.

“We are whale hunting,” then-bank managing director Rosemary Vrablic wrote colleagues in November 2011, as she began to forge ties to Trump and his family.

Appeals court judges signaled skepticism on Thursday toward the civil fraud case brought by New York state against Donald Trump as the former president asked them to toss a nearly half-billion dollar judgment against him over real estate business practices that a trial judge declared fraudulent.

I said it before; Trump should have been jailed in the 80's like Leona Helmsley.

They expressed the same sentiments and opinions on taxes.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/only-the-little-people-pay-taxes/623116/

Why she was jailed and Trump went on to be president is thanks to the US two-tier justice system.

Let’s hope that the 3 remain panel members are not as ignorant of finance and markets as the 2 mentioned here.

What crime???

https://www.westernjournal.com/bank-executive-flips-script-testimony-trumps-ny-fraud-trial/

The skepticism is not surprising.

I said it before; Trump should have been jailed in the 80's like Leona Helmsley. 

Apples and Grapefruit comparisons.

They expressed the same sentiments and opinions on taxes. 

Very different actually

Why she was jailed and Trump went on to be president is thanks to the US two-tier justice system

No, because Trump has always been a rich blue collar worker and supporter, Helmsley was a self-absorbed inhumane selfish (fill in the blanks, evil, vindictive, moody, angry all the time and let’s not forget she ruled by fear. That’s her only power hold she had on people and her workers

Let’s hope that the 3 remain panel members are not as ignorant of finance and markets as the 2 mentioned here.

What crime???

This is a civil judgment, Dershowitz. It’s a private rather than a public (criminal) wrong.

As far as what he was found LIABLE for, he defrauded his counter parties.

And now he gets to pay.

"There were no victims, no complaints," 

Does not excuse a crime.

The US legal system is difficult for non-Americans to understand but if you read the article you'd see this is a:

civil fraud case 

This is a civil judgment, Dershowitz. It’s a private rather than a public (criminal) wrong.

Again, what crime?

As far as what he was found LIABLE for, he defrauded his counter parties. 

Then it would be a slam dunk case, doesn’t seem to be the case…

And now he gets to pay.

For what?

The US legal system is difficult for non-Americans to understand but if you read the article you'd see this is a:

civil fraud case 

It’s funny that you think “fraud and illegality” you can see mentioned if you read the article is not a crime.

Then again, everything you post is funny.

Breakin’ the law breakin’ the law lol.

The US legal system is difficult for non-Americans to understand but if you read the article you'd see this is a:

civil fraud case 

I agree.

Trump now owes $478.3 million.

He probably expects his base to keep tithing to him, maybe sell them more bibles and sneakers along with NPRs , or if he's elected will be bailed out by other billionaires around the globe, making him as always beholden to the highest bidders, regardless their nationality. He is a clear and present danger to the US and its Constitution which despots around the globe , along with those in his MAGA base, many of whom prefer life in countries like the Russian Federation and Hungary. want to see so the US is further weakened.

It’s funny that you think “fraud and illegality” you can see mentioned if you read the article is not a crime. 

Then again, everything you post is funny.

Breakin’ the law breakin’ the law lol.

No breaking the law referred to in this case before the appeals court lol.

Here--last sentence in second paragraph:

*The civil case** was brought by New York state Attorney General Letitia James.*

Civil case....even if is is overturned, the 34 CRIMINAL FELONIES stick...

He's a convicted felon - case closed...

He's a convicted felon - case closed...

Which more than half of the country will proudly be voting for.

 A Reuters/Ipsos poll on Tuesday showed Vice President Kamala Harris, the Democratic candidate, leading Trump 47%-40% nationwide

great job adding that totally manufactured outlier like it’s any reflection of reality.

2020 Quiniapac and CNN at this time: Biden +13.

now? Trump +1 and -1.

No, because Trump has always been a rich blue collar worker and supporter, Helmsley was a self-absorbed inhumane selfish (fill in the blanks, evil, vindictive, moody, angry all the time and let’s not forget she ruled by fear. That’s her only power hold she had on people and her workers

Chuckle because the idea of Trump doing an honest day's labor and Rudy Giuliani in the news today was the one who sent Helmsley to jail for tax fraud.

https://theweek.com/donald-trump/1002220/rudy-giuliani-sent-trump-business-rival-leona-helmsley-to-prison-for-tax-fraud

The US two-tier justice system of which Trump is a beneficiary of and MAGA really create their own reality.

Corruption becomes a virtue.

The leftist wailing and gnashing of teeth when this ridiculous case by the biased judge is thrown out is going to be epic.

Friedman clearly doesn’t understand a red herring argument, when he says it. Judges who do this are creating false narratives.

This is a case of fraud. The result or fallout finding Trump guilty is not a mitigating factor.

Gotta love how commenters here claim to know more about financial transactions and real estate deals with banks than Trump or any sitting judge.

the judge is wrong, they exclaim!

yeah ok.

Chuckle because the idea of Trump doing an honest day's labor

He did

and Rudy Giuliani in the news today was the one who sent Helmsley to jail for tax fraud. 

I remember what a psycho-maniac that woman was.

The US two-tier justice system of which Trump is a beneficiary of

Wrong, it was the Constitution that saved him

and MAGA really create their own reality. 

Which seems to bear truth and reality.

Corruption becomes a virtue

Smith, Fani, Bragg, James have learned that the hard way.

He's a convicted felon - case closed...

Which more than half of the country will proudly be voting for.

So your prediction is that he will get 51+% of the popular vote? Noted and preserved for posterity.

the judge is wrong, they exclaim!

“this ridiculous case by the biased judge”

You make it too easy. Try harder.

unburdened by what has been, we just need to move past the failed policies that we have proven don't work. 

holistically, in a holistic way, of course.

these rigged court cases are an example of need to move on from failure. They existed to prevent Trump from running- failed.

Remember when they tried to keep Trump off the ballot? Failed. How quaint.

Blacklabel

Gotta love how commenters here claim to know more about financial transactions and real estate deals with banks than Trump or any sitting judge.

Yup. I work on Wall Street. In my experience, judges have very little financial understanding.

bass4funk

“We are whale hunting,” then-bank managing director Rosemary Vrablic wrote colleagues in November 2011, as she began to forge ties to Trump and his family.

Little did they know that Trump wasn't a whale at all, due to his lies and deceit.

Gotta love how commenters here claim to know more about financial transactions and real estate deals with banks than Trump or any sitting judge.

Judges are experts in law and not subject matter experts. They frequently know little about areas like biology, chemistry, finance or economics. That’s why they should rely on subject matter experts.

Backnin the 90s,

This convicted felon is a living, breathing and walking crime scene.

Watch him very carefully!

Sorry, cut off:

Back in the late 90’s professors at the University of Kansas School of business had a program to educate judges on the economic implications of judicial decisions BECAUSE the judges were ignorant of economics and finance.

It is about one set of rules for everyone. A two-tier system is supposed to not exist in the United States.

it hoghly unlikely that this case will be overturned, the evidence against Trump is overwhelming.

its likely that the amount will be reduced, but itll still be a shiteton of money

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUIzX75hrOk

Little did they know that Trump wasn't a whale at all, due to his lies and deceit.

all their money was repaid on time and with the agreed upon interest.

the bankers testified it was a great deal for them, they are happy and would do it again anytime.

whale.

Surely there'll be another case waiting around the corner, right?

Toss one, another will be waiting to take its place.

Little did they know that Trump wasn't a whale at all, due to his lies and deceit.

all their money was repaid on time and with the agreed upon interest.

And if they’d had an honest picture of the true state of his balance sheet, they’d have known that they were taking on greater risk and would have charged a higher premium.

But they didn’t. Because he lied to them.

Thats fraud.

the fraud is on the ny state. the financial documents provided to lenders should be the same provided the state for property taxes.

Toss one, another will be waiting to take its place.

nah the cases and the indictments failed to prevent Trump from reelected soon. They actually seemed to have helped him.

the left has moved on to weaponizing the DOJ against a strong Black leader who dared to criticize the regime and who stepped off the Dem plantation. He will be made an example of.

Judges are experts in law and not subject matter experts. They frequently know little about areas like biology, chemistry, finance or economics. That’s why they should rely on subject matter experts. 

Backnin the 90s,

I vehemently disagree, they’re all humans and humans are fallible, which both left-leaning and right-leaning judges are not perfect or some have a political agenda. Keep it fair now

And if they’d had an honest picture of the true state of his balance sheet, they’d have known that they were taking on greater risk and would have charged a higher premium. 

And yet, where is the crime?

But they didn’t. Because he lied to them. 

Thats fraud.

But they couldn’t prove a crime was committed. Even in the bluest of blue states like NYC they just couldn’t prove unanimously that a crime was committed

Blacklabel

Little did they know that Trump wasn't a whale at all, due to his lies and deceit.

all their money was repaid on time and with the agreed upon interest.

Yup. Should have been higher interest.

the bankers testified it was a great deal for them, they are happy and would do it again anytime.

Bankers don’t like to admit when they have been scammed.

whale.

sardine.

and would have charged a higher premium.

when in the life of a leftist have they ever been concerned whether a bank could have charged more interest in a real estate deal?

they were happy with what they got and more than satisfied with the deal they made and would make the same deal again. Nothing you say can overcome that testimony.

they were happy with what they got and more than satisfied with the deal they made and would make the same deal again. Nothing you say can overcome that testimony.

So happy that no listed bank will lend him money anymore, not even Deuche bank, lender to the dregs of so, lol.

So happy that no listed bank will lend him money anymore, not even Deuche bank, lender to the dregs of so, lol.

So did the bankers lie in their testimony under oath?

and what about the Trump supporting subject matter experts?

not them, the other subject matter experts? lol

can’t understand why leftists are fighting for banks to make more profits than they already do by supporting predatory lending.

And if they’d had an honest picture of the true state of his balance sheet, they’d have known that they were taking on greater risk and would have charged a higher premium. 

And yet, where is the crime?

Its a civil case (insert pop culture reference to widely known legal expert here).

He wasn’t charged criminally because the statute of limitations had expired.

If charged, he would have been convicted because hes guilty AF.

they were happy with what they got and more than satisfied with the deal they made and would make the same deal again. Nothing you say can overcome that testimony.

But you know, of course, that Detusch Bank dropped Trump like a hot potato in January, 2021.

The bankers were correct in their risk assessment.

paid back in full, on time, with interest.

would do it again, they say.

they were happy with what they got and more than satisfied with the deal they made and would make the same deal again. Nothing you say can overcome that testimony.

I know I lied and defrauded my counter parties, but I paid them, so no harm, eh?

By way of analogy, if an employee takes money from the till of the non-profit he is associated with to pay his debts off fudges the numbers to cover it up, and then returns the money later, no harm no foul, right?

Wrong. Thats fraud and if it’s within the statute of limitations, it’s also a crime. (See how that works, B?)

MAGA “Sure I defrauded my counterparts, but it’s all good” logic.

can’t understand why leftists are fighting for banks to make more profits than they already do by supporting predatory lending.

Yeah, right.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/10/trump-administration-quietly-roles-back-protections-against-predatory-payday-loans/

As the election nears, MAGA claims get more divorced from reality.

let’s not forget that deutsch bank has a reputation and history of scandals - financed the nazis, purchasing stolen jewish gold, paid billions of dollars in fines and penalties for interest rate scams and money laundering for criminal organizations.

they’d finance the devil.

Its a civil case (insert pop culture reference to widely known legal expert here).

He wasn’t charged criminally because the statute of limitations had expired. 

If charged, he would have been convicted because hes guilty AF.

In Blue Liberal Trump hating NY? Probably, politics and the law have a very symbiotic relationship for decades and decades

I know I lied and defrauded my counter parties, but I paid them, so no harm, eh?

But all the banks said that they weren’t defrauded, that right there blew the lefts case

By way of analogy, if an employee takes money from the till of the non-profit he is associated with to pay his debts off fudges the numbers to cover it up, and then returns the money later, no harm no foul, right? 

I mean, a even a chicken can find a nugget once in awhile.

Wrong. Thats fraud and if it’s within the statute of limitations, it’s also a crime. (See how that works, B?)

MAGA “Sure I defrauded my counterparts, but it’s all good” logic.

In other words, no crime other than, let’s stop Trump from running. We will plan the court hearings during the campaign season.

The bankers were correct in their risk assessment.

paid back in full, on time, with interest.

would do it again, they say.

Sure they did. And that’s why he’s had to rely on private equity to meet his cash needs, eh?

In reality, no listed bank will do business with Trump org.

I’m talking about the business they DID. Not speculation about future deals.

they testified they would do that same deal again.

of course a lot of people/companies don’t want to attract the attention of the rabid left right now by publicly saying they will work with Trump.

so all we have is the testimony under oath from the bankers. Happy, paid back in full, on time. Would do again.

Sure they did.

Yes

And that’s why he’s had to rely on private equity to meet his cash needs, eh? 

And still they trust him as a cash cow.

In reality, no listed bank will do business with Trump org.

All these banks said they would,

Finance his golf courses?

Eric let slip that one.

”We get money from Russians”.

”We get money from Russians”.

Speaking of the FBI…

Seems like these people and courts continue to lose

In reality, no listed bank will do business with Trump org.

All these banks said they would,

But in reality they don’t and they won’t.