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Arizona governor signs immigration enforcement bill

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Is about time. Finally someone declared, illegal really means, illegal. Previously you could be arrested, tried, and charged for smuggling yourself into the state. Now simply for being in the state illegally, you can also be charged. On the other hand, there is the potential for difficulties with citizens. Still, just having this one the books is going to make the illegals move out of Arizona, and others avoid it. Everything Pearce said is correct. Though it probably won't really start to happen til someone is actually arrested and charged with illegal trespass.

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"just having this one the books is going to make the illegals move out of Arizona . . .

Right. And I've got some beach front property in Arizona to sell you. Cheap! ;-)

The fundamental problem with illegal immigration has a lot in common with the free market system. The market determines supply and demand. As long as there's work to be had across on this side of the border, people will continue to cross that border. There are countless agricultural businesses all across Southwest that employ large numbers of illegals. And the American owners continue to utilize illegal labor with impugnity.

"But no, we can't punish our own now, can we? That would be un-American. So we'll turn our wrath on the defenseless."

If there are jobs, the workers will come. If the locals worker won't do those jobs, then others with the intestinal fortitude to work hard will. Simple as that. When Americans reach a point where they no longer believe they're too precious for manual labor, or, god forbid, agricultural work, then maybe we'll see a drop in illegal immigration from the south.

But until then, as long as the laws continue to skirt the real issues, this problem will continue. No fence is going to stop it. No half-baked "Minute Man" idiocy is going to stop it. And no law giving state police sweeping new powers to infringe on the privacy rights of U.S. citizens is going to help it.

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The fundamental problem with illegal immigration has a lot in common with the free market system. The market determines supply and demand.

Save the lecture, tnx. Arizona Gov Jan Brewer you're my new hero!!

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Good job, Arizona

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This could get wild. Cops doing their normal jobs and finding illegals. Everybody who starts calling the cops to turn in illegals.

Then the lawsuits.

Arizona is flat broke. I don't understand where they will find the funds for more cops and fight the law suit. But that's their business. < :-)

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White people came to America illegally; would be hypocritical to turn these people away. What US needs to to is allow majority of these illegals to become legal workers; at least this way they would pay taxes. Mexicans will come to US no matter what is happening cause of a simple fact; for a lot of them life in US jail is better than what it is back home (like not having food to eat). While I am against illegal immigration, the amount of effort that it will take to keep these people away will be much grater than the disadvantages associated with illegal immigration. Plus, it WILL create human rights abuses; cops WILL pull over and harass millions of legal hispanic-looking US citizens to enforce these kinds of laws.

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Good start Arizona.

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The problem must be sooo HUGE that Arizona must have this law, after years of waiting. If Obama is serious , he should also look at way of "distribution" of immigrants throughout USA, or give Arizona tons of money to please the state's citizens.

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State's Rights here. It's Arizona's cost. < :-)

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jruaustralia,

Apparently you think this new law will magically solve the problem. Care to explain how?

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I disagree with this legislation on a personal level--I remember being stopped and questioned by the police in Japan while my white friends, Americans like myself, were greeted by the same police with a smile and a wave. This legislation sets a up a de facto system where anyone vaguely brown can be stopped and harassed by the police.

That said, had the federal government taken a firm stance on illegal immigration (other than firmly ignoring the issue) years ago, this legislation would have never reached the governor's desk.

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"had the federal government taken a firm stance on illegal immigration (other than firmly ignoring the issue) years ago, this legislation would have never reached the governor's desk."

Couldn't agree more. Thing is, there's no collective national consensus, much less will to address the underlying problem. The mixed message being broadcast loud and clear to Mexican nationals is: "Stay out! . . . UNLESS you're willing to pick my fruits and vegetables, clean my yard, and raise my kids for pennies on the dollar. In which case I won't tell if you don't. But if Immigration rolls around, you're on your own. Besides, I can just get a new one of you tomorrow if you get deported."*

But no matter how many laws you pass, no matter how many Minute Men you put on the border, no matter how big a wall you erect, as long as there are Americans willing to hire these people, they will come.

It's seems the climate of blame-the-other-guy is firmly entrenched even in something like immigrants crossing a boarder to fill jobs that can't be filled locally. The onus to change things falls squarely on the shoulders of the cheap, tight-wad, self-important AMERICANS who hire illegal immigrants, and the whole of American society that turns a blind eye as long as prices are kept down.

(Sorry if that's too lecture-ish for you, jruaustralia, but I've got plenty more to add . . . )

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Although rather partial to the plight of the socially downtrodden, I must say that in all first world countries there need to be steps taken against the problem of blatant illegal immigration. At the same time, however, this new law in Arizona is asking for trouble. It will just be a matter of time before some overzealous police officers either start blatant racial profiling (with Hispanics being the target) or somebody who is an American citizen gets accidentally deported. Indeed, it is just a matter of time before there are lawsuits resulting from this little statute.

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It is more than apparent that the AZ law is symptomatic of the fully blown frustration and intolerance American have over illegal immigrants working and living in the U.S. A wake-up call to Congress to get off their duffs and implement an immigration bill we all want. It's a clear message that more States will soon follow to do the job for them. It is reported today that Utah is now introducing a similar bill as they fear illegal immigrants will flock to their state from AZ when their law takes effect after 60 days. It will have a snowballing effect among most states. Can Obama mobilize his troops to legislate a federal immigration bill as he did with HC? I doubt it; not this year. Too much at stake for the incumbants before the mid-term elections. It is clear that Congress will defer taking action until next year.

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Funnily, in America, it's typically the white descendants of immigrants who are against immigration.

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adaydream - This could get wild. Cops doing their normal jobs and finding illegals. Everybody who starts calling the cops to turn in illegals.

Nope, can't, and won't happen. At least not under this law. Saying this only makes it apparent you haven't read it.

motogaijin - This legislation sets a up a de facto system where anyone vaguely brown can be stopped and harassed by the police.

Er, again no. You obviously haven't got a clue what you're talking about. You're forgetting 2 very simple words. Probable cause. As in Police need it. They can't simply stop you, pull you over for being hispanic. That wouldn't work, wouldn't pass constitutional muster. The law is written better then that.

LFRAgain - The mixed message being broadcast loud and clear to Mexican nationals is: "Stay out! . . . UNLESS you're willing to pick my fruits and vegetables, clean my yard, and raise my kids for pennies on the dollar.

Actually I believe the message being sent is, get your damn green card, then you're welcome. Hoping the fence, just stay home.

timorborder - At the same time, however, this new law in Arizona is asking for trouble. It will just be a matter of time before some overzealous police officers either start blatant racial profiling (with Hispanics being the target) or somebody who is an American citizen gets accidentally deported.

Again, not going to happen. Go read the law. Seriously.

SushiSake3 - Funnily, in America, it's typically the white descendants of immigrants who are against immigration.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that theres a difference between immigration, and illegal immigration. I'd say 95% of Americans have no problem with people who come to the states legally. None. But our basic idea of fairness comes into play when we see millions of people sneaking in the back door and demanding equal rights with those who stood at the front door, and politely rang the doorbell. Its almost everyone who has an issue with illegal immigration. Even most hispanics don't like it.

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Good on AZ.

Pearce said the legislation would remove “political handcuffs” from police and help drive illegal immigrants from the state.

Wha this means is if a person is apprehended as a suspect, the police can ask if they are legal or not, not like it is in places where there are "sanctuary cities." And by definition of the word, those cities are in effect saying that they are breaking laws by not asking if that person is in the country legally.

As far as the argument that some have said to make them legal resident aliens and then they will pay taxes, that will not work either. The whole reason why buisness go for illegal labor is to not have to pay a fair wage. Make them legal and they will not get that and will be working on minimum wage, and thus be able for other government services for the poor. The end result would be still taxing on the government services because the costs of giving them food stamps, medical, free education would outweigh what they bring in, and if they were not here that would be less (I understand not a way to solve the problem of state revenue disbursement) of a problem and then they can work on getting their state budgets in order.

I was on a trolley in San Diego and just happened to go through an illegal sweep by the border patrol. They asked if I was a citizent, and I pulled out my ID and they moved on. For the record, I am a Black man, so they at least asked everyone on the train and were not profiling.

Good job AZ, and if other border states had any backbones they should do the same.

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This is the best thing we can do for Mexico to show some responsibility for their populace. Obama feels that he just lost millions of illegal votes.

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A better idea would have been to crack down on those that hire illegal aliens illegally. Make it mandatory to pay all workers the minimum wage and you take away the incentive to hire illegals. But guess who that affects so it will never happen.

Taka

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A wake-up call to Congress to get off their duffs and implement an immigration bill we all want. It's a clear message that more States will soon follow to do the job for them.

The immigration law is not broken. But it seems United States' border protection is. Proponents of a new Amnesty Bill (ala Reagan's failed '86 version) are wishful-thinking that this would solve the systematic abuse of America's immigration intake.

Wrong. It'll penalize those who want to come to America legally-- genuine refugees included. It'll give more incentives for businesses (AZ hospitality industry for ex.) to hire illegal aliens v US workers. It'll create a lucrative blackmarket for counterfeit documents-- which I'm sure even pro-amnesty advocates would agree.

AZ Gov Brewer is just showing pragmatism when it comes to this highly charge debate. For this, I applaud the governor.

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I, as a hispanic, will support this bill if:

They start rounding up illegal Irish and Russians on the east coast. I know, there are a lot of Latino gangs, but come on, they ain't got nothing on the heartless Irish and Russian criminals. Mexican government stays out of the picture. Yes, I'll accuse them of sticking their hands into the businesses that profit out of illegal immigration. employers who have basically been the reason many have entered the country are prosecuted. A clear public notice that if you are sick, you need not be afraid to get medical attention. Kids already attending school are no removed. Some form of consultation on how to become legal. Believe it or not, many still work on hearsay method of news. Since the Obama admin is so hyped on setting up a bigger government, I would like for them to setup an extension that would put Hispanics under the same category as Native Americans. I really want the sanctuaries, holding up Latino gang members from police, to stop.
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The whole reason why buisness go for illegal labor is to not have to pay a fair wage. Make them legal and they will not get that and will be working on minimum wage, and thus be able for other government services for the poor.

Dishonest businesses that go for illegal labor (roughly 10 mil in the US) don't want to pay for bonuses and penalty rates. In fact you can exceed the ave. weekly hours and still be payed flat rate.

They don't want to face stiff penalties whenever the law's broken. Illegal workers are susceptible to blackmail after all-- so why should that dodgy employer be afraid of violating the law when it comes to employment contract?

These are all just common facts. And the truth when it comes to illegal immigration is that some experiences are even worse off than others.

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Molenir, I think you're incorrect. I think I'm correct about the actions of the people. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

But this will help to break the Arizona state budget. < :-)

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Who knows how this is going to end. Maybe the law won't hold up and something new will take it's place, or maybe it will be effective, or maybe it will be abused and scrapped, we really don't know since it's new territory.

My guess is that there are quite a few cops in AZ who come from Hispanic backgrounds so I'm not really imagining the all-white terrorizing police force pulling over anyone with dark skin. And let's be real, the bad apple cops are going to pull anyone over and harass them if that's what they do. They didn't need a reason before and they still don't need one now.

Who knows about the impact on business. Maybe prices will go up. Maybe the cost of the enforcement will negatively impact the state. Or maybe there will be cost savings in health care and education that outweigh the increases. No one really knows yet.

LFRAgain: But no matter how many laws you pass, no matter how many Minute Men you put on the border, no matter how big a wall you erect, as long as there are Americans willing to hire these people, they will come.

My guess is that fewer will come with the new laws. I believe that AZ has also recently passed some tough laws on hiring illegals over the past couple of years. You'll never be able to keep everyone out, but overall the risk of being illegal or working with illegals has increased and I think you will see illegal immigration decrease to some extent. I guess some Americans are getting a bit fed up with other Americans abusing the system and they're trying to do something about it.

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Molenir, here's the bill. I read it.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Where does it say that citizens can't call in their neighbors for being in the country illegally? And since Arizona is going to take a stiffer stand against illegals, you'll have people who can't get jobs calling in employers who use illegals vice American employees. You'll have spiteful calls also.

It calls for up to 6 months in jail plus fine. Arizona's going to run out of jail space.

This bill will cost millions to enforce and it'll take more resources then the state of Arizona has in it's treasury. < :-)

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This Arizona law is going to effect in another way people think.

For starters, it would not get a chance to be enforced because a federal court would immediately place an injunction on it as soon as it takes effect in the summer - not because of what's in the law but rather the nature of the law itself. There's this thing called pre-emption in the US Constitution: a state cannot pre-empt an authority given to the federal government - and that includes the issue of immigration. It's just not in the state's power.

Now, there's 2 ways that can be resolved: (1) the federal courts' injunctions go all the way to the US Supreme Court, then the US SC declares it constitutional (not likely but ya never know with the Supreme Court), or (2) the federal government enacts a similar national law.

2 is the most likely effect of this Arizona law, which could finally kick Washington DC into moving for immigration reform.
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White people came to America illegally;

No actually they didn't as there were no immigration laws at that time.

When Americans reach a point where they no longer believe they're too precious for manual labor, or, god forbid, agricultural work, then maybe we'll see a drop in illegal immigration from the south.

Well as long as they keep paying an illegal wage Americans will not do those jobs, it is illegal to paid less than minimum wage unless it is supplemented by tips, those employers pay less than minimum wage dude, which american would work for less than minimum wage? Those labor jobs are not as long as they pay a decent wage, I worked in a steel mill that paid me $15 an hour, they had no problem getting Americans to do that type of manual labor, and keep in mind those steel mills are hot.

self-important AMERICANS who hire illegal immigrants, and the whole of American society that turns a blind eye as long as prices are kept down.

Really? Is that why this same law just passed also specifically goes after people who hire illegals?

A better idea would have been to crack down on those that hire illegal aliens illegally.

Guess what they are, did you actually read the bill? They plan on cracking down on those hiring them illegally. This bill goes after all of them, the companies and the people who help illegals and the illegals themselves.

They start rounding up illegal Irish and Russians on the east coast. I know, there are a lot of Latino gangs, but come on, they ain't got nothing on the heartless Irish and Russian criminals.

Well that is going to be difficult as this is an Arizona state only law, this law doesn't effect any other state except Arizona. But if there are illegal Europeans in Arizona they will be rounded up.

here's this thing called pre-emption in the US Constitution: a state cannot pre-empt an authority given to the federal government - and that includes the issue of immigration. It's just not in the state's power.

That is only true at the border itself, once they pass the border and are in the US then it is both a state and federal issue or another way to put it both under state and federal jurisdiction meaning either can create and enforce it.

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Taka - A better idea would have been to crack down on those that hire illegal aliens illegally. Make it mandatory to pay all workers the minimum wage and you take away the incentive to hire illegals. But guess who that affects so it will never happen.

Already done. There is a law on Arizonas books, that basically means if a business is caught knowingly hiring and employing illegals, they can lose their license.

Where does it say that citizens can't call in their neighbors for being in the country illegally? And since Arizona is going to take a stiffer stand against illegals, you'll have people who can't get jobs calling in employers who use illegals vice American employees. You'll have spiteful calls also.

adaydream - Where does it say that citizens can't call in their neighbors for being in the country illegally? And since Arizona is going to take a stiffer stand against illegals, you'll have people who can't get jobs calling in employers who use illegals vice American employees. You'll have spiteful calls also.

This bill does not say police must respond to this. It is classified as a misdemeanor. Cops must determine whether or not a person is an illegal, and they must have some other reason for being there. In other words, you can't just call the cops and say, hey, my neighbors an illegal, come an deport him. Thats not the way this works. If a cop pulls you over, it must be because of some other reason, and then they can ask. They can't just stop you cause they don't like the color of your skin.

Basically, this law is nothing more then a tool that police can use.

adaydream - It calls for up to 6 months in jail plus fine. Arizona's going to run out of jail space.

I honestly doubt this will happen. Simply because its going to be awhile before the law actually gets enforced. Its going to be held up in the courts for awhile, and federal immigration law may change again, superseding this. Not only that, but you have to keep in mind, that Arizonas prisons already house huge numbers of illegals. By encouraging these people to move out of the state, the population will shift away from this, basically freeing up bed space. Of course thats over the long term, assuming federal law doesn't change, its upheld on appeal, and neighboring states don't change their own laws to follow suit.

lostrune2 - There's this thing called pre-emption in the US Constitution: a state cannot pre-empt an authority given to the federal government - and that includes the issue of immigration. It's just not in the state's power.

Yes and no. The state can decide to make anything a crime, so long as it meets certain guidelines. Obviously it can't make printing a newspaper illegal, however it can make it a crime to pee on the grass. See the difference? What Arizona is doing, is making not being a citizen, or being in the country legally, a state crime. There is nothing in the constitution to stop this. You are correct of course that it will go to the supreme court, but it is unlikely it will be overturned on the basis of pre-emption. Now possible civil rights issues might get it overturned, but we'll see. There is also a strong possibility that Obama will push for reform now. Amnesty almost certainly won't pass. If Obama wants to have even a prayer of holding the Senate, he won't even consider it. Not only that, they don't have much time to get it done, and Republicans sensing blood in the water, will fight it tooth and nail.

Well that is going to be difficult as this is an Arizona state only law, this law doesn't effect any other state except Arizona. But if there are illegal Europeans in Arizona they will be rounded up.

This is true. The law doesn't differentiate between races. That would be unconstitutional. If a person is in Arizona illegally from Kenya, or England, or China, then they will be treated the same as if they're from Mexico. Thats why this bill has a shot at being upheld.

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Arizona's going to run out of jail space.

Arizona uses tents outside in the heat, with pink underwear and pink sheets.

This is a reaction to the drug kidnappings and violence infesting Arizona from across the border.

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Molenir "even most Hispanics". Hay dude, you mean even the guys from south of the border agree with you? Awesome!!!

Hey buddy, those coips sure never break ruls and profile do they? No way. All those who may look "foreign" must take constant stops for possibly breaking laws, as the police may suspect they are illegals due to appearance thus justifying the stop.

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There's this thing called pre-emption in the US Constitution: a state cannot pre-empt an authority given to the federal government

Arizona is taking back its' right it allowed the Federal Gov, because the Federal Gov was not doing its' job in regards to immigration in Arizona. I know this screws up the globalist agenda -but too bad.

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Arizona cannot take back a right it never had in the first place. The Constitution immigration issue was long established before Arizona became a state (1912).

Look, what this also means is that a state, say New York, cannot also just say it will allow every immigrant across its state borders. It goes both ways. It also doesn't have that right.

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Arizona is taking back its' right it allowed the Federal Gov, because the Federal Gov was not doing its' job in regards to immigration in Arizona.

Indeed, the President won't be able to concentrate on the issue of illegal immigration this year. With the the midterm election and the focus on a broader financial reform the Prez' hands are tied. What states can really expect are just bare promises and recycled policies.

Expect much tussle and brawl from both sides of the debate BUT Jan BREWER showed pragmatism this week. AZ have been patient enough and now the state has to act on its own.

self-important AMERICANS who hire illegal immigrants, and the whole of American society that turns a blind eye as long as prices are kept down

You're confused... and should really check your facts. During the late 80s there was a targeted amnesty provision over illegal labor working in the agricultural sector. This after an extensive Amnesty bill, proposed in '86, failed because of its sketchy details. (It was so sketchy that not even the late Ted Kennedy supported the bill)

Now, in AZ the majority of illegal labor works in the hospitality industry (mainly casinos). Do you honestly think the entire casino industry is under surmountable amount of stress, that the Fed government should call for another amnesty program just for them?!

(This) could finally kick Washington DC into moving for immigration reform.

Care to tell us what'd you expect to see in a fresh immigration reform and why you think immigration laws in the US, not immigration enforcement, are broken?

This is a reaction to the drug kidnappings and violence infesting Arizona from across the border.

Hah!

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lostrune2 - Look, what this also means is that a state, say New York, cannot also just say it will allow every immigrant across its state borders. It goes both ways. It also doesn't have that right.

Apples and Oranges here. The state legislature can decide anything is a crime, as long as falls within the bounds of the constitution. Just as the federal government can. The legislature made it a state crime to be in the state if you're in the country illegally. They can do that. Just as they could say, its illegal to drive more then 45 mph on any road in the state. They have that right and authority. The only question in this matter is, whether or not it will be upheld on constitutional grounds, as potentially violating peoples civil rights.

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Most Hispanic citizens in the state of Arizona are in favor of it." I don't know where you got your stats from, but in hearing from my relatives, we are somewhat in support of it. Again, I will say the reason why a lot of hispanics are in support of it is that for too long, too many criminals have come over the border with no sight being prosecuted, as they are usually just deported only to return. These criminals wreck havoc on our communities - not liberal white gated communities.

I disagree that the big flow is due to jobs, I believe its just a good move to a better location but its what is coming along. Besides, I would prefer we halt all immigration until we get the country on track and get current citizens working, fed and sheltered. Are we really in a position to have such mass immigration at the moment?

However, I do hope this is a short bill and does not prevent PROPER immigration in the future. Another reason why I am support of this as I would like to see this happen in NYC, I lived in Queens for a short time, and the amount of crime coming from Russian mafia is big.

And in all honestly, I don't like this bill. I don't think its meant to be liked, but should we just open the borders up completely.

One note, and I'll say this as a Hispanic, have you checked the immigration laws of Mexico? Much of them are harsher than this bill is.

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Noliving, good post. You answered well.

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A few statistics which should help clarify - -

83% of warrants for murder issued in Phoenix and 85% in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.

53% of all reported burglaries in California, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.

58% of all welfare payments in the United States are issued to illegal aliens.

Less than 2% of illegal aliens are "picking crops" but 41% are on welfare.

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