As anger rises, Muslims worldwide protest French cartoons

@strangerland, to my understanding drawing cartoons re their prophet would incite anger and violence from believers that's why you are advising people to be civil and stop doing such. Igarashi San didn't do such a thing yet he was murdered. It's not only about cartooning their prophet, anything and everything that they deem disrespectful to their religion or to their people is haram. Hence I'm one with @Fu and @stormcrow.

@strangerland, when a Japanese writer just wanted to earn a living and hence translated into Japanese the Satanic Verses, he was murdered. The writer was civil and the perpetrator was enjoying scholarship benefit from the Jgovt receiving monthly stipend of which he's not obliged to pay back not like some Jstudents who ask for govt education assistance and need to pay back the exact amount. And in return what did he do? There was never a drawing nor any kind of hatred the writer did. There are good Muslims as I've witnessed and worked with some before but like some I believe it's violent. Once a fatwa was raised, no one questions and they just have to follow. Not sure what happen to the killer though.

Sorry, what does this have to do with drawing cartoons?

There were Jihadist muslims attacks before the cartoon was published and they will continue even if the cartoon were stopped.

Ok, good for that.

In the meantime, we're talking about the cartoons. And you won't have people getting beheaded for drawing cartoons, if people don't draw those cartoons. Will stopping drawing the cartoons make peace on earth world wide for now and forever? Nope. But it will stop people from being beheaded for drawing cartoons.

The ideal is that there is no islamic violence. The reality is that there is. 

How did that all come about? Nothing to do with the CIA/MI6 coup d'état in Iran 1953. Unconnected with allowing Saudis to throw billions at proselytising extremist Wahhabism worldwide. Mutually exclusive of Uncle Sam grooming Osama Bin Laden. Coincidental to attacking OBL's arch-enemy in revenge for 9/11.

Muslims keep attacking innocent people again and again and they (in their thousands) call for war!

And no-one keeps attacking innocent muslims?

https://www.iraqbodycount.org

@strangerland, when a Japanese writer just wanted to earn a living and hence translated into Japanese the Satanic Verses, he was murdered. The writer was civil and the perpetrator was enjoying scholarship benefit from the Jgovt receiving monthly stipend of which he's not obliged to pay back not like some Jstudents who ask for govt education assistance and need to pay back the exact amount. And in return what did he do? There was never a drawing nor any kind of hatred the writer did. There are good Muslims as I've witnessed and worked with some before but like some I believe it's violent. Once a fatwa was raised, no one questions and they just have to follow. Not sure what happen to the killer though.

However, rather just modifying our behaviour in order to avoid islamic violence, should the reasonable reaction not to demand that said violence stops?

The default state of events is that one is not drawing their prophet. There is nothing that forces nor requires us to do so, therefore when one decides to do so, they are modifying their behavior to draw the images.

You are trying to phrase it as if drawing the images is something humans do by default.

I'm not saying anyone should modify their behavior to avoid the violence, I'm saying they should stop modifying their behavior, as everyone knows that the resulting consequence of said modification is that people will be subjected to violence.

Trying to say 'well it's not right that they get violent' is like saying that a bull shouldn't gouge you because you're a vegetarian. Like the cow cares.

The ideal is that there is no islamic violence. The reality is that there is. You people can live in your la-la land of binary hatred against the muslims. Or you could be civil, and stop drawing their prophet.

Mixing Religion and Politics messes things up big time... I hope people across the World get this into their thick heads and sort it out themselves !!!!

Being cross towards others is sad, but when they don't realize that their actions are not acceptable, and when they still promote the continuation of those actions amongst their communities against the rest of us... one has to feel a bit protectionist against their kind.

@Khuniri - I guess you are a Muslim, and that is fine, since you appear to be a decent person by your comments here. Sadly, you are being bundled up under the Islamic extremist banner - due to the Political / Religious sticky mess. In the UK we've seen this, and in France I guess the same is happening. Western Societies realized decades ago the dangers of Religious / Political Conflict and separated the two influencers by Law, I wonder if the same actions would help being enforced elsewhere in the World.... in order to bring a more stable Global Society rather than a return to something akin to the Crusades of past.

Religion and Politics should never mix. The problem with Muslim cultures, is that this is not the case - which leads to situations such as this, where their Religious leaders call for the beheading of all French, and their believers act upon it! Look at all the Protests Globally in the name of the name of their Religion... each of those protestors is a potential "Manchester Arena Bomber"!!!!

Sadly. I have to say that all Muslims need to be deported forthwith without question to a Country of their choice that is Muslim Friendly... hopefully not Japan!

Keep Religion and Politics separate. If you cant, then separation is necessary.

"Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets who were before you."

Some readers will recognize these words...Note that the speaker does not say: "Blessed are you when you feel dissed, because it'll be a great opportunity to behead those you hate."

France is un état laîque, a secular state. One can have reservations about the system, but not about freedom of speech. If someone makes fun of my religion, I shrug it off (or even laugh, if the joke is funny enough). If people really believe in the maker of us all, they won't claim to own Him.

Vive la France!

Desert Tortoise

I don't see the constant appeasement you speak of. As I see it, unlike the US and Canada, European Muslims face more discrimination and an absence of economic opportunities compared to non-immigrant European populations.

Well, I do see it, and so would you if you looked more carefully. The list of special accommodations for islamic demands is long and growing.

And (Western) Europe has been extremely accommodating to the migrants. I do not know how you want to combat jihadism with even more appeasement, and neither do you,

The saving grace of the US in particular is that Muslims can come to the US, find employment, reasonably comfortable accommodation and not be bothered about their faith. They can celebrate their holidays and nobody gives them grief about it.

Tell that to the victims of the Boston Bomber, the Fort Hood shooter, the Orlando disco shooter, shall I go on? The relatively lower rate of incidents in the US simply reflects the still very small demographics. To claim otherwise is wishful thinking.

Strangerland

Nevertheless, these are known and expected consequences of these actions. So if you do these actions, you should expect that consequence. And as it is a known consequence, and not drawing pictures of their prophet causes no problems in to the person who doesn't draw him,

Well, so you are arguing that islam is violent by defintion, and that can not be changed?

Strangely, I think you are probably right there.

However, rather just modifying our behaviour in order to avoid islamic violence, should the reasonable reaction not to demand that said violence stops?

So, violence and killing is acceptable for comedy/satire some wacko doesn't like?

Not at all. Neither is punching someone in the face for yelling the N-word in public.

Nevertheless, these are known and expected consequences of these actions. So if you do these actions, you should expect that consequence. And as it is a known consequence, and not drawing pictures of their prophet causes no problems in to the person who doesn't draw him, I can only think 'what did you expect' if/when someone gets their head cut off for drawing the prophet. Or punched in the face for yelling the n-word in public.

Is it an appropriate response? Nope.

Is this response going to happen whether it's appropriate or not? Yep.

Cold hard realities of life there.

I await the condemnation from binary thinkers who are unable to think in terms of nuance.

So, violence and killing is acceptable for comedy/satire some wacko doesn't like?

Can someone please make a complete list of everything where violence is acceptable between private people? I'll need to carry it around, since it seems to be pretty long for lots of people.

My list for where violence is acceptable between private people is pretty short. When I'm protecting myself or another life or my property. The level of acceptable violence is determined by the threat.

In places with free speech, violence isn't an acceptable response to speech, ever.

@the Fu, many political and religious refugees left their homelands and go the open arms of Europe to run away from persecution and violence. Yet they spread around the very violence they left behind. No gratitude at all for the countries and its people who accepted them as they are.

@Desert, nice observation between the US, Canada and Europe re immigrants. My son is a half Japanese half Filipino yet I understand he's still a gaijin in the eyes of the real locals and the same is true I think with some celebs here.

There are controlling religions and people who believe in them shld just stay put where they belong.

Which, alas, is the situation Europe is in, with its constant appeasement

I don't see the constant appeasement you speak of. As I see it, unlike the US and Canada, European Muslims face more discrimination and an absence of economic opportunities compared to non-immigrant European populations. You can be fourth generation German born of Turkish descent but to a German you are still a foreigner. Same thing for Arabs in France. The saving grace of the US in particular is that Muslims can come to the US, find employment, reasonably comfortable accommodation and not be bothered about their faith. They can celebrate their holidays and nobody gives them grief about it.

Completely agree. Holocaust denial should not be censored, and neither should be Mohammed cartoons

Take note gentle readers, this may be the only time Zaphod and I agree on something!

I do not notice any protests against beheadings of French people carried out by co-religionists 

You don't get it ? The Muslims that find that horrific (the attacks, not the cartoons) are trying to hide in bunkers. They fear that if they express opposition to the calls to hate and murder, the mad crowds will turn against them ASAP. How many minutes would you survive if you walked toward any of the groups in photo here and say "The killings are a shame ! I protest...".

Even here is France. The police and army are trying to protect all churchs/mosques/synagogues... and all schools. But there are still attacks. Now a Greek Orthodoxe Pope in Lyon. Next thing, you'll be beheaded for eating French fries.

If I saw my Muslim neighbors on their way to a demo I'd tell them : "No wait. Stay home. Stay safe. Thugs will come to burn your cars, they'll attack your kids when they go out of school... They'll be doubly violent." But they already know. Particularly those that are survivor of Islamist terror in countries they had to flee.

It's only if everybody else does a demo that they can join safely... maybe. That was the plan to do a special day to defend that teacher in all schools, with all the pupils. That had to be next Monday. But there is Covid, lockdown....

You don´t have to be a binary thinker to see the slippery slope there.

Um, the slippery slope argument IS binary thinking. The argument is 'we cannot allow that, because that only leads to extremism. Therefore we must absolutely prevent it'.

So while I agree that you don't have to be a binary thinker to see the argument (I can see it, I just don't agree with it), you do have to be a binary thinker to not be able to come up with a more nuanced solution.

You think that cartooning Mohammed is the only that gets the fundamentalist angry?

I think it's what's getting them angry this time. And I don't think cartooning their prophet is a sword worth dying on.

Think again. Short of full submission under Sharia, there is nothing that will appease them.

Except there is. The overwhelming majority of muslims in the world are peaceful people, and just want to go to work, spend time with their families, and go on vacation.

Submitting a little bi t under islamic blasphemy laws is similar to be a little bit pregnant.

Except that, and get this, it's not. I've lived my entire life " a bit under islamic blasphemy laws" by not ever having drawn the prophet. It's most definitely doable I assure you. You do this whole thing where when you pick up a pen, you don't draw their prophet, and you don't publish it in a newspaper.

Desert Tortoise

I have no patience for censorship of any kind. The best way to counter lies like holocaust denial is with facts and a well reasoned counter argument.

Completely agree. Holocaust denial should not be censored, and neither should be Mohammed cartoons.

Strangerland

So how about some people stop insulting their prophet, and then they can stop killing people for insulting their prophet. Don't think it's an insult? Well maybe keep your head to yourself by erring on the side of caution.

I await the condemnation from binary thinkers who are unable to think in terms of nuance.

You don´t have to be a binary thinker to see the slippery slope there. You think that cartooning Mohammed is the only that gets the fundamentalist angry? Think again. Short of full submission under Sharia, there is nothing that will appease them. Submitting a little bit under islamic blasphemy laws is similar to be a little bit pregnant.

Which, alas, is the situation Europe is in, with its constant appeasement.

Me thinks 2billion muslims then need to grow something that is called a spine & not be so easily offended, not holding out for much progress on this front

I agree. I also think that people who insult their prophet are asking for trouble, and shouldn't be at all surprised when it arrives.

It's like a white person going out in public and yelling the n-word, then with claiming freedom of speech.

That freedom of speech isn't going to stop him from getting punched in the face.

Nor is any law ever going to stop it.

Nor is any amount of whining about how he shouldn't have been punched in the face going to stop it.

So how about some people stop insulting their prophet, and then they can stop killing people for insulting their prophet. Don't think it's an insult? Well maybe keep your head to yourself by erring on the side of caution.

I await the condemnation from binary thinkers who are unable to think in terms of nuance.

I hope you're also against jailing "holocaust deniers"; that 's what they do in France and some other European countries.

I have no patience for censorship of any kind. The best way to counter lies like holocaust denial is with facts and a well reasoned counter argument. I hold the same applies to lies and rumors posted on internet forums. Demands to "clean up" the internet are nothing more than demands for censorship. It is to be condemned. Only those too weak to make up their own mind or who cannot compose a rational argument to support their position demand censorship of ideas they oppose.

 Drone attacked wedding parties.

"Wedding parties" that were attended exclusively by fit young men armed with automatic weapons and RPGs. No bride and groom to be found. No older or younger family members. Just fit young men armed to the teeth. There were no wedding parties attacked. Those attacks all require visual confirmation of whom is being attacked via optical systems on the UAS or attacking aircraft. No weapons are released until commanders in the US and DoD lawyers are satisfied the subjects of an attack are indeed combatants. If it is questionable there is no attack. You fell for Daesh propaganda. Not a thing to be proud of but lots of people have been chumped by Daesh and Al Qaeda propaganda.

If you don't want to see or hear something, don't look. Your religion shouldn't impact anyone else's legal right to enjoyment. If you want to live somewhere that religion controls the laws, move out of France.

These guys take their religion too seriously. And tell me why there are no mass protests against China which is imprisoning Uighurs and wiping away their culture in Xinjiang? Selective outrage at its best.

The Chinese have been busy throwing money and weapons at Muslim nations to curry favor with their governments, who in turn exercise tight control over their societies and suppress efforts to harass Chinese living there. But one has to wonder how long this can last.

Islamic rules applies to muslims. Christian rules for Christians. Jewish rules for Jews. They need to leave the rest of us alone.

No religion should ever rule any people. A government that derives its legitimate authority from the consent of the governed, elects it's own leaders who debate and pass the laws that will govern the people limited by individual rights guaranteed in writing to the people doesn't need any religion to dictate the terms of governance. Most of the worlds nations have citizens who adhere to many different religions. Allowing one to be the governing religion always becomes a religious tyranny for those who adhere to different, often competing religions. The nations of the world need to find some other premise upon which to base their laws than a particular religion.

Nasrallah said the concept of the freedom of expression should not include “violating the dignity of 2 billion Muslims.”

“No Muslim in this world can accept insulting his Prophet,” he said.

Me thinks 2billion muslims then need to grow something that is called a spine & not be so easily offended, not holding out for much progress on this front

I do not notice any protests against beheadings of French people carried out by co-religionists --- quite an imbalance.

Um, maybe because your premise is entirely silly. What exactly would protesting beheadings do? Protests are when the people have a problem with government, or some entity with a location they can go to protest. It's bringing a grievance public.

Shall they just go over to the local terrorists hall with signs and say 'um, can you kindly stop beheading us, we think you hadn't realized that we are against that as a society'. Or are you thinking the public doesn't realize that people don't like being beheaded, and so awareness needs to be brought to it?

Lots of enthusiasm for protesting against free speech and for blasphemy laws.... however I do not notice any protests against beheadings of French people carried out by co-religionists --- quite an imbalance.

Sad that so many people are still living in the Dark Ages.

When cartoons offend and cutting off heads doesn't, there must be something wrong with the religion, the society, the education or the family and friends (take your pick) that can mold, condition and poison the minds of our fellow humans. What sad, frightened and desperate creatures we can become when our make-believe fantasies and self-delusions are overwhelmed by the merciless demands of reality: existing, aging and dying. The roots of terrorism are to found buried deep in the unfathomable abyss of the human brain and in the crooked timber of the human animal.

This is correct, they build mosques and madrassas all over the world and fund the imams who favor Wahhabi doctrine.

Wahhabism is an appalling doctrine but intolerance of freedom of speech when it comes to Islam isn’t limited to this brand. It’s far too mainstream. Even the more ‘progressive’ Muslim majority countries don’t tolerate it.

The madrassa have been largely funded by the Saudis, which is particularly responsible for the spread of the philosophy of radical islam.

This is correct, they build mosques and madrassas all over the world and fund the imams who favor Wahhabi doctrine.

The average Pakistani has never been to France or met a French person. He was (poorly) educated in a madrassa where the religious leaders taught him how to think

The madrassa have been largely funded by the Saudis, which is particularly responsible for the spread of the philosophy of radical islam.

It is the imams and muftis that do this, that incite the faithful. The average Pakistani has never been to France or met a French person. He was (poorly) educated in a madrassa where the religious leaders taught him how to think, and diversity of thought was not part of the curriculum. So now when the same leaders wish to rabblerouse, the poor masses have no independent ability to discern right from wrong. So they stream out from the mosque after prayers ready to engage in violence against people they have never met. It is sad.

French Muslims should boycott the CAF and the RSA. Then we'll know they're sincere.

These guys take their religion too seriously. And tell me why there are no mass protests against China which is imprisoning Uighurs and wiping away their culture in Xinjiang? Selective outrage at its best.

I hope you're also against jailing "holocaust deniers"; that 's what they do in France and some other European countries.

I’m against jailing holocaust deniers. We should be allowed to dismantle the ideas of these cracked, and often sick, conspiracy theorists in the open.

Like i mentioned before, anyone is allowed to question what other's belief, political or religion, with proper argument and discussion, but when done in a way that is disrespectful, it is just rude.

One of the points of satire and ridicule is to deflate the arrogance of ideas like religion which have incredible power. It’s noticeable that autocrats and theocrats have no tolerance for being ridiculed. A healthy society should be encouraged to deflate the egos of those with power. Don’t allow any hairless ape to think he or she is anything more than that.

It’s called free speech, folks. Not what’s pop or acceptable to you.

I hope you're also against jailing "holocaust deniers"; that 's what they do in France and some other European countries.

Again, you are claiming religion should be treated with special care without telling us why this should be the case.

I have deeply held political ideas. Do you think attacking and ridiculing my political ideas is uncivilized? I like having them attacked and ridiculed. It makes me question if they are sound. I don’t start whining that I’m offended, throw tantrums, burn flags, make death threats or saw people’s heads off.

I guess it's just a gesture of respect for something one have believe from small. Like how we shouldn't go around mocking one's family, we also should not mock one's belief, even though we feel it is wrong.

Like i mentioned before, anyone is allowed to question what other's belief, political or religion, with proper argument and discussion, but when done in a way that is disrespectful, it is just rude.

Plus, we also need to understand that not everyone is raised in a culture or environment where questions is allowed towards what the society believes, so it is crucial that we consider that when raising that issue to that person.

Besides, we also need to culturally and historically view the society how they are seeing as acceptable type of protest. Because as you can see, the type of protest shown by the muslims in this case varied according to location and culture.

And finally, no matter kind of belief in this world, religious or political, there will always be a group that have extreme view due to lack of knowledge or ignorance or simply human greed while using one's belief as excuse.

And blaming everyone for such small group of people is ignorance at our side.

Mmm it seems the only way to stop them from killing each other is a common enemy.

Yes I agree, life is full of things that offends each other. If anyone offends me personally, I will talk it out and express my discontent with the person involved. Or simply ignore it. But it is different when someone do something that offends my family or my religion as it involved those I care and what I believe. 

Again, you are claiming religion should be treated with special care without telling us why this should be the case.

I have deeply held political ideas. Do you think attacking and ridiculing my political ideas is uncivilized? I like having them attacked and ridiculed. It makes me question if they are sound. I don’t start whining that I’m offended, throw tantrums, burn flags, make death threats or saw people’s heads off.

Precisely. So what if it offends people? Life is full of things that offend me. It's interesting that you are not offended by savages who cut off people's heads in the street.

Yes I agree, life is full of things that offends each other. If anyone offends me personally, I will talk it out and express my discontent with the person involved. Or simply ignore it. But it is different when someone do something that offends my family or my religion as it involved those I care and what I believe.

Anyone have the right to say what one's believe is wrong with proper arguments and discussion. But simply mocking is just bullying. And lack of action when being protested is just discrimination.

I am also disturbed by how this has turned out. Death is never ever something that we can take lightly.

But I am also sad and wondering how did this turn out this way. The beheading incidents are results that we can see sprouted from unsolved issues.

Blaming solely on a religion is ignorant because other countries are living well with majority of that religion.

If not, why don't we find out what happens there that influences it to occur.

If refugees are coming from certain countries, please research what happens in that country, did foreign influences causes it, which country conquered them in the past and what kind of things they have done to the country and what kind of influences it have to the present, etc.

Terrorism has no place in this world, the same as selective discrimination.

This has been an expected outcome. The French liberals could have known the ultimate consequences of their act. Now what, the supposedly satirical cartoons are unacceptable to the religious, indirectly warming up the hibernating extremists. No prize for guessing right what would come next..

A free and open society means to live and let live. If you don’t like it, then get the hell out or, better yet, don’t come in the first place.

No matter what religion you believe, or even none, there must be a value that you hold. Crossing that line is just showing how "civilized" you are.

Why should religion opinions be treated with particular care? It’s an opinion which should be treated like other opinions.

Not being adult or civilized enough to have your ideas scrutinized and satirized means you are probably not suited to free societies, where people from less civilized countries go to escape poverty, ignorance, repression and intolerance.

A big shout out to all the proud atheists out there!

Say no to Islamophobia

Nonsense word.

Say no to racism

Satirizing a religious figure is not racist.

Boycott French products

Your choice.

I have some ideas for signs which could improve your societies:

Stop FGM

Stop treating women as inferior

Educate our kids in 21st century ideas

Stop imprisoning, flogging or executing gay people.

Allow freedom of thought and speech

I’m pretty sure if you redirected your energies into these kinds of ideas, you and the rest of us would be better off.

It’s called free speech, folks. Not what’s pop or acceptable to you.

Then why would it need the backing of a president?

It's not 'just' free speech is it? Macron has tripped and turned it into pure politics.

It’s called free speech, folks. Not what’s pop or acceptable to you.

If you don’t like it, crawl back under your rock. See you in another hundred (make it a thousand if you want) years.

What exactly is freedom of speech?

Expressing what ever you want regardless of what the person involved feels about it?

No matter what religion you believe, or even none, there must be a value that you hold. Crossing that line is just showing how "civilized" you are.

What Charlie Hebdo drew was an attack to not just Muslim in France, but all around the world.

And Macron defending that cartoon is defending that attack too.

In respond to that, Muslims hold those protest and boycott with their limited power just so that the French Government can get the message of how unhappy the Muslims have been with Macron's responses as a leader of a country.

Why does any deity of any religion not strike down the unbelievers? Why are these deities so powerless they need mere humans to impose punishments?

Time to buy something from France.

And people are worried about Covid-19? Islamic extremism is the most dangerous plague we face. Its origin is not a wet market in Wuhan but the mosques and religious schools in Saudi and Pakistan.

Muslims keep attacking innocent people again and again and they (in their thousands) call for war!

Islam is definitely NOT a peaceful religion then..

It definitely isn’t.

I would say it is more an ideology of control.

The free world and the all other religion should wake up against this kind of middle age rules and practices. We need a world we can live as we want. Not as Muslims directs. I want to see the urge of the world against those people.

Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the leader of Hezb-i-Islami, an Islamist party, warned Macron that if he doesn’t “control the situation, we are going to a third world war and Europe will be responsible.”

Muslims keep attacking innocent people again and again and they (in their thousands) call for war!

Islam is definitely NOT a peaceful religion then..

IMHO, Macron has to defend freedom, but he doesn't have to defend the goose tgat is Charlie Hebdo. There is a distinct difference, and Macron tripped.

Other Muslim leaders have condemned the killings as not Islam, this is leadership. Macron has condoned bigotry and framing it as freedom.

A free society embraces all religions.

“There’s only one punishment for blasphemy,”

Scary.

Keep them out.