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As death toll rises, no end seen to Israeli offensive

27 Comments
By JOSEF FEDERMAN

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27 Comments
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Stop this obscenity.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

I agree wholeheartedly. Hamas should stop indiscriminately firing rockets at Israeli population centers and putting their own people in harm’s way.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Israel had better be careful here. Those ISIS knuckle heads have nuclear material. The easiest location to use it is Israel. Unless they can smuggle it through Turkey into Europe.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Shame on Israel.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Shame on Israel.

Shame on Hamas. Hamas lines civilians up and hides behind them like the cowards they are. Hamas began firing hundreds of missiles after kidnapping and killing 3 Israeli boys, one of which was also an American. They bomb Israel relentlessly and cry when Israel says "Enough is enough" and fights back. Israel send warnings before they fire so that civilians can leave but Hamas forbids the civilians from leaving. Then there is the problem with the children there who are trained to fight and kill at the age of 3 years old. Just because they are not officially in an army does not make them civilians. Israel has the right to protect their land and their people. If Hamas would stop firing, the problem would be solved but how do you deal with a population who has made it clear that they want every living Jew annihilated from the face of the earth?

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Hamas is using civilians including women and children as human shields to boost the casualty rate (to make it look like Israel is bombing civilians at random).

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Hamas officials said the group is ready for a cease-fire, but only if it gets something in return

Hamas doesn't care about Palestinian civilians.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

It's not rocket science. If Hamas stopped firing indiscriminately at Israelis, Israel would have no need and no right to fight back. Does anyone really believe that Hamas cares about the Palestinian people? What has Hamas ever done to improve the lives of ordinary people living under them in Gaza?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Hamas lines civilians up and hides behind them like the cowards they are.

It is time to stop repeating Israeli falsehoods. Gaza is one of the most densely populated spots in the Middle East. (There is virtually no place that Hamas or anyone else could set up in Gaza that wouldn't be close to civilians.) On December 27, 2008, during the later part of the morning when school shifts were changing from morning to afternoon classes, Israel started a 20+ day carpet bombing of Gaza. In the first few hours alone, nearly 200 Palestinians were killed, many of them children.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/dec/27/israelandthepalestinians

There is a basic principle of justice called proportionality, which the Israeli defense forces do not practice. A rocket attack by Hamas which kills or injures no one is met by carpet bombing which kills hundreds.

See why one of the major Israeli generals turned against his country's policies, branding them as racist and terrorist, and dedicated himself to the rights of Palestinian Arabs. It is time for Americans to dispel themselves from Zionist half-truths and myths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Hamas did not start rocket attacks after the murder of the 3 Israeli boys. They started the day after Israel withdrew in 2005 and have not stopped since. For some reason, we only hear about these rocket attacks when Israel dares to respond.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

It is time to stop repeating Israeli falsehoods.

So even though Palestinians who are actually there say that civilians went TOWARDS a targeted building AFTER Israel warned them it was a target and they should leave, it is a falsehood? Why because yabits and the Palestinian apologists who aren't there says so? Sorry but I will believe the Palestinians who are there and actually admit that it is true.

There is a basic principle of justice called proportionality

There is a basic principle of common sense called reality, which says when someone is trying to kill you you do whatever is necessary to neutralize the threat. The fact that Hamas is ineffective in their attempts does not shield them from an effective response.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

yabits;

" It is time to stop repeating Israeli falsehoods. "

I would say it is time to stop repeating the islamist falsehoods being propagated here. What exactly do those who lambast Israel for finally responding to rocket attacks from Hamas want Israel to do? Let its entire population live in bombshelters indefinitely? Anything else? Maybe living in a town in southern Israel which under daily attack would sharpen their minds. Sitting ones butt in complete safety here in Japan is a quite strange position to lecture others on how to deal with terrorism.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

I'd like to take a moment to thank Tony Blair for all his tireless work as Middle East Peace Envoy. What a great job he's doing.

Worth every penny, that fellow.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

It's not rocket science. If Hamas stopped firing indiscriminately at Israelis, Israel would have no need and no right to fight back. Does anyone really believe that Hamas cares about the Palestinian people? What has Hamas ever done to improve the lives of ordinary people living under them in Gaza?

That is the most (and I mean this in a kind way) ignorant comment about Hamas I've ever read or heard.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Fizzbit, please explain what you mean. If Hamas stopped its terrorism against Israel, why on earth would Israel keep fighting back? What has Israel to gain? And please enlighten me as to what Hamas has done for the ordinary Palestinian to improve his lot since winning the legislative election in 2006 (no election held since by the way) and violently ousting Fatah in 2007.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

There is a basic principle of common sense called reality, which says when someone is trying to kill you you do whatever is necessary to neutralize the threat.

A minority in Israel and their cheerleaders salving a collective conscience, rationalizing massacre upon massacre upon massacre as the defensive measures of innocent victims.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/a-preventable-massacre.html?_r=0

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/10/03/israel.gaza.conviction/

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/15session/A.HRC.15.21_en.pdf

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

japonaise, I say this with sincere honesty, you really don't understand the issue from both sides.

If Hamas stopped its terrorism against Israel, why on earth would Israel keep fighting back?

You seem to think that Hamas is sending these rockets over just because they are evil. I'd like you to picture in your mind what an injured tiger would look like backed into a corner with no where to run. That is what the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have been living with for the last 66 years. And let me state my opinion please, Israel does not want peace. I recommend you take a look at a map of Israeli settlements in Palestine, not Israel. This was supposed to be Palestinian land 66 years ago. Pay attention to haw many settlements have been constructed on Palestinian land and how you would feel about it. There are hundreds of reports of these settlers destroying Palestinian Olive orchards to force the Palestinians out. The terror is coming from Israel 10 fold.

What has Hamas done? They have brought funding, schools, organization, food, and most of all, hope that one day they will not have to live in a prison called the Gaza Strip. It took me three minutes to write this, which means the US has just given 3 million dollars to Israel.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Fizzbit

Hamas is the worst thing that has happened to the Palestinians. In 2005 when Israel withdrew completely from Gaza, many Palestinians thought there was a chance to make things better, but the leaders chose more violence. If only ordinary people in Gaza were free enough to speak out against their leaders. Those that do end up dead. Those who try to talk to Israelis or make any movement towards peace end up dead. I could give you endless examples of how Hamas has made things worse for the Palestinians. But I'm afraid I can tell that I won't change your mind. I hope things improve for Palestinians, but I, and every Palestinian I know (or knew) says it will not happen under Hamas.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Sensenotsocommon:

" A minority in Israel and their cheerleaders salving a collective conscience, rationalizing massacre upon massacre upon massacre "

There is no "massacre", except in the world of Hamas propaganda. The IDF is very carefully trying to take out Hamas command centers and rocket sites. Which is made particularly difficult because Hamas loves to place their military installations close to civilians (talk about human shields!). Thus, the IDF actually telephones the residents of buildings before dropping bombs on them. When is the last time you heard Hamas or other radical islamist organizations do such a thing? In the event, Hamas has already promised more terrorist bombings against civilians in Israels.

If the IDF wanted to commit a "massacre", they could do that easily. But they obviously don´t. Keep some perspective, please.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I would say it is time to stop repeating the islamist falsehoods being propagated here

The material I am presenting comes from Israeli Jews. There is one thing about the Jewish faith I deeply respect, and I am talking about the true Jewish faith, and that is their propensity towards truth and justice. Chaim Potok chronicled the founding of modern Israel and its effects upon Jews in his novel The Chosen. In it, a very orthodox Jewish family is at odds with a Zionist Jewish family in America post WWII. The orthodox Jewish father said that the Zionists were worse than Hitler, because Hitler destroyed the Jewish body, but the Zionists would destroy the Jewish soul. And they would do it with lies.

Evidence for this comes from none other than former prime-minister Menahem Begin in 1982 after the saturation bombing of Lebanon and the Sabra-Shatila massacres. The war caused a terrible rift in Israeli society. Massive antiwar opposition erupted for the first time in Israel's history while a war was underway. In defending the actions of his government, Begin referred to the policies of David Ben-Gurion in 1948. Begin claimed that the only difference between them was that Ben-Gurion had resorted to subterfuge while he carried out his policies openly.

What was the subterfuge of Ben-Gurion and his "team?" The former leader of Israel's MAPAM party, Simha Flapan, details them in his book: The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities. It's time, for Americans at least, to get down to the truth of what has been happening, rather than swallowing Zionist propaganda and falsehoods.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

“People who make use of all their senses in trying times are no less patriotic than those whose restraint is lost, whose senses are dimmed and whose brains are washed. This is also the time for the patriot to say: Enough.”

Gideon Levy
0 ( +1 / -1 )

But I'm afraid I can tell that I won't change your mind.

Say what you want Japonaise, I'm open minded. Please know though, that since the US is giving Israel 1 million dollars a minute it's easy to buy Palestinians to spy for them. Knowing that the Gaza Strip is a prison, it's not so difficult to understand the need for loyalty. It is a war of independence IMO. It's been going on for a long time.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@WilliB

There is no "massacre", except in the world of Hamas propaganda.

In Sabra and Shatila, the slaughter of up to two thousand Palestinians (Israel claims eight hundred) in Beirut by Christian Phalangists, was personally facilitated by Ariel Sharon, the camp sealed off by, and its night skies illuminated by the flares of, the IDF, who observed the killing, and ignored US demands to halt their allies' murderous orgy. The UN General Assembly denounced the incident as genocide.

759 non-combatants, including 318 children, perished in Operation Cast Lead. A UN investigation found "hundreds" of instances of civilians used as human shields by the IDF, and willful killing of non-combatants.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7960824.stm

The attack on the aid ship MV Mavi Marmara in international waters, and the killing of ten Turkish activists by the IDF, was also found by the UN to be in breach of international law.

Though these incontrovertible and inconvenient FACTS might provide compelling fuel for it, they are not of themselves propaganda, and certainly NOT from Hamas. Is that sufficient enough perspective for you?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Some facts (not claims by one side, but facts established by international human rights groups, and the historic record)

The first rockets flew from Gaza while the Israeli regime was in total control of it. And the Israeli regime was bombing civilian targets and killing children with bombs and bullets before that first pitiful attempt to fight back against the bombardment happened. The militants who make up the Israeli forces use human shields (unarmed, unprotected, unwilling civilians forced to stand between armed and armoured fighters and those who would fight back) but none of the claims that the Hamas fighters do the same have ever been substantiated. The claim that Hamas places military targets in civilian areas is the use of human shields ignores that Israeli military targets are similarly placed in civilian areas, and the proven willingness of the Israeli regime to slaughter civilians to attack military targets.
0 ( +2 / -2 )

If the United States won't help the Palestinians survive another onslaught by the rapacious Israelis, the PRC needs to step up its game plan in the name of World Peace. China needs to deploy PLA peacekeepers (not Chinese UN peacekeepers) to stop the Israeli military from flying American helicopters into the Gaza Strip. China needs to declare a "no-fly zone" over Gaza, plain and simple. After that, watch the Arabs all across the Middle East, Northern Africa and the South China Sea flock to China's standard and away from the US-Japan alliance.

Be an honest broker of peace by stopping the Israelis from murdering innocent women and children in Palestine, and you will have taken a giant step in gaining "soft power" across the globe. In addition to a no-fly zone, the PLA peacekeepers should stop all American-built tanks and bulldozers from rampaging through Gaza, as well as blockade the border to keep Israeli ground troops out. As you may remember from these periodic incursions into Gaza, Israeli troops regard these forays as turkey shoots, with over a thousand Palestinian deaths in 2009 and only 13 Israelis killed, mostly through friendly fire, meaning the Israelis killed their own. In other words, the Palestinians are unarmed, unable to defend themselves against the invading Israelis; consequently, this is nothing short of murder.

This is how you enforce the peace and gain prestige. This is not a belligerent action by the PRC against the US, but it is filling a gap that the US is unable to fill because our senators and representatives are paid employees of Israel. This slaughter is not the will of the American people, and we are powerless to stop the carnage, which has already taken the lives of more than a hundred Palestinians, many of them innocent women and children. As such, this is the time and the place for the PRC to establish a meaningful presence as an equal superpower committed to World Peace...in the absence of US resolve for the same.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

“I will end it when our goals are realized. And the overriding goal is to restore the peace and quiet,” Netanyahu said.

Ok, so that is the war aim. Fair enough. Only not, in a way.

There is no peace to restore. There was only a pause.

So, I read this statement as " the overriding goal is pummel Hamas into submission." Which will never happen.

Hamas must be destroyed.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Why do these people have more problems then other groups in the world ? They should be ignored and allowed to resolve the problem on their own. Seriously, we should have a complete news blackout, and leave the drama out of the public conversation.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

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