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Asian coal plant drive threatens climate goals: report

29 Comments
By Sam Reeves

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29 Comments
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Nuclear is the only viable alternative.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

China, India, Indonesia, Japan and Vietnam are planning to build more than 600 coal plants

Its a disgrace that Japan appears in that list. Its the the only one that doesn't even have that "Hey we have a lot of extremely poor people that we want to provide with access to electricity for the first time and coal is the easiest shortcut to doing that right now" excuse.

Which isn't to say that is a valid excuse, especially given the cheap cost of renewables now, but for crying out loud what bloody excuse does Japan have to be on that list?

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Which isn't to say that is a valid excuse, especially given the cheap cost of renewables now, but for crying out loud what bloody excuse does Japan have to be on that list?

What renewables are you thinking about ? There's not many controllable renewable source at this point.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Nuclear is the only viable alternative.

The resident eco-nuts would disagree with you.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

What renewables are you thinking about ? 

The ones that are way cheaper than coal.

https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

1 ( +6 / -5 )

what bloody excuse does Japan have to be on that list?

Something about newer and more efficient plant designs to be added as "interim measures" to Japan's overall carbon free goals (whatever they are as of date). After all, didn't Shinjiro Koizumi say that the fight against climate change should be "sexy" and "fun"?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

As far as India is concerned, there is a huge lobby (also referred to as coal mafia) which profits from illegal mining, distribution, pilferage and sale of coal. The coal mafia is well entrenched in some of the coal rich states like Jharkhand and they have the resources to fix elections and topple state governments if anyone tries to harm their revenue stream.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_Raj

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

rainydayToday 02:05 pm JST

What renewables are you thinking about ? 

The ones that are way cheaper than coal.

https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

So you're saying wind and solar ? But how does that work when it's January, there's no wind, it's 10pm and millions of people go under their kotatsu or keep their bath water warn, or whatever electric appliance everyone use daily ?

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

So you're saying wind and solar ? But how does that work when it's January, there's no wind, it's 10pm and millions of people go under their kotatsu or keep their bath water warn, or whatever electric appliance everyone use daily ?

Yeah, they got a variety of ways of dealing with that problem, helpfully summarized in this Wikipedia entry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_storage

0 ( +4 / -4 )

rainyday

The ones that are way cheaper than coal.

https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

That article is misleading and does not mention at all the massive problems "renewables".

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

That article is misleading and does not mention at all the massive problems "renewables".

Pretending is funner than actually reading, isn't it?

The article actually does say:

"One of the downsides of renewable sources is their intermittent supply cycle. The sun doesn’t always shine and the wind doesn’t always blow."

And you can read the following text to see what the author's view on that problem is.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

rainydayToday 02:21 pm JST

So you're saying wind and solar ? But how does that work when it's January, there's no wind, it's 10pm and millions of people go under their kotatsu or keep their bath water warn, or whatever electric appliance everyone use daily ?

Yeah, they got a variety of ways of dealing with that problem, helpfully summarized in this Wikipedia entry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_storage

Except dams there's nothing really economically viable and usable at large scale today, I am curious of how many dams japan would need to deal with the issue.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

My understanding is that since last year here in Japan, many companies or investors including banks that provide funds retire from the coal market. I suppose the plan of 14 plants concern projects already decided or well advanced, not new projects

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Except dams there's nothing really economically viable and usable at large scale today, I am curious of how many dams japan would need to deal with the issue.

That is not true in the US:

https://www.eia.gov/analysis/studies/electricity/batterystorage/

Or Australia

https://www.energy-storage.news/news/worlds-biggest-battery-storage-project-announced-by-australian-renewables-f

Or the UK

https://www.energy-storage.news/news/uks-largest-battery-storage-project-at-320mw-gets-go-ahead-from-government

1 ( +5 / -4 )

You talking about renewable and battery storage ?!!

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Become carbon neutral by 2050 or 2060... bs

I think we all know those are just statements to satisfy the Paris agreeement goals.

In fact, Asian countries are acting as if they own the planet and not caring at all about carbon emissions. And it is disgusting.

All countries listed above have access to oceans, and at least in Japan's case they have pretty strong winds. I might be wrong. But they could at least, you know, try doing something????

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I'd be very interested to know why/how anyone would down-thumb comments supporting renewables, or indeed pointing out the existential threats continued addiction to fossil fuels pose for us all.

There should not even be any debate about this issue any more ....

And yes, Japan you should be ashamed of yourself for this continued support of coal.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

That article is misleading and does not mention at all the massive problems "renewables".

Then enlighten us. Don’t be coy.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

JT, "where everyone is an expert".

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Experts see phasing out coal, which produces greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, as key in battling a climate crisis whose impacts -- ranging from species extinction to unliveable heat

Well, humans have been burning coal for multiple millennia, the human body is perfectly adapted to this gas, and not to mention CO2 is a life sustaining gas, this gas has not caused any species extinction, now without this gas there will be mass scale species extinction as for one majority of the flora will go extinct.

Now the greenhouse gases which are key in battling climate crisis are Methane and Nitrous oxide, the Oil/Gas/Beef/Fertilizer lobby ensures that these gases are never mentioned by these so called experts.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Well, humans have been burning coal for multiple millennia

Multiple millenia ?! What in god's name are you talking about? Are you actually confusing the coal you get from a simple bonfire and industrial coal burning?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I am sure China is determined to burn all its coal as fast as possible and nothing will stop them. One thing can be done is if other countries can stop providing them with their natural resources and stop buying their products.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

mrtinjpToday  04:21 pm JST

> Well, humans have been burning coal for multiple millennia,

True, dating back before the birth of Christ.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Nukelar

1 ( +2 / -1 )

" even as Europe and the United States accelerate their transitions to cleaner energy."

Fracking isn't cleaner energy.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

It would be useful to know if these 600 power plants are replacing less efficient plants, and whether the net result will be an increase or reduction in CO2 emissions.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Fracking isn't cleaner energy.

The science says that natural gas is much “cleaner” and in many different aspects, not just with respect to CO2. Nuclear is the ultimate “clean” energy source but Progressives hate it. Just shows how anti-science the Left has become.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Just shows how anti-science the Left has become.

Not sure about whatever “the Left” is, but there are reasons to question reliance on nuclear power beyond blind anti-science hate (or whatever you think is driving it).

The fact that Japanese society will be paying the costs of cleaning up that radioactive mess in Fukushima for decades to come is certainly one of them.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

None of these countries will ever meet their agree-upon targets. Only the USA is making progress and has reduced its emissions level, even under Mr. Trump's administration. Some of it was due to increased natural gas use and decreased coal use, and some was due to increased renewable. The biggest driver was a cultural commitment by large swathes of the population to participate and use the power of market forces and societal pressure to change how energy was created.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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