Assad makes rare appearance as Syrians stage Eid protests

How free do you think Saudi Arabia is?

Is this issue based around the freedom of Saudi Arabia? No.

Why would they be so interested in "freeing" the Syrian people?

Because Saudi is 90% Sunni.

Yeah, some people continue to believe they have a real choice at elections

Wow, so now even democratic elections are a conspiracy as well? Dear me.

As for security forces killing those who object, you should not believe everything coming from the Observatory or the Damascus blogger.

The Damascus Blogger?! Again with the Damascus Blogger?! This is NeverSubmit's favourite football, and as I pointed out to him, the Damascus Blogger was proven to be false nearly 15 months ago, and was actually a guy pretending to be a lesbian who talked about the trials of being homosexual in Syria, and not much else. The Observatory is what it is - but for all your decrying of their credibility I've yet to see you guys post anything compelling to completely discredit them either. Apart from you just suggesting they aren't legit. Which, as you know, doesn't amount to much....

Tamarama,

How free do you think Saudi Arabia is? Why would they be so interested in "freeing" the Syrian people? Indeed, think about what you are endorsing.

But she still allows me to try to vote her out if I don't like her work and she doesn't send the Army or security forces in to kill me if I object.

Yeah, some people continue to believe they have a real choice at elections. As for security forces killing those who object, you should not believe everything coming from the Observatory or the Damascus blogger.

And as for this;

Syria is winning and NATO is losing. We were right about this foreign-back rebel invasion and you guys were wrong

Who is getting childish? Most posters here are reasonable enough to know that external parties will get involved in the affairs of state if and when the opportunity and the right set of circumstances prevail. This happens for all kinds of reasons. Some political, some religeous, some just humanitarian. Lot's of Syrians, for example, went in to fight the Americans in Iraq. But you have maintained, right from the beginning, that the rebellion is foreign led. That is simply not true. You have stuck your foot in your mouth many times in relation to points surrounding this and many posters have called you out on it. NATO are not involved at this point, but you confuse single countries as being representative of the whole organisation. They aren't 'losing' anything, and I'm more than happy to keep debating the point.

Iso Poika

You are using as reference the Index of Economic Freedom? From The Heritage Foundation!!!

I did. But if you prefer, the Press Freedom Index is far more damming of Syria, having them at 176 of 179, the Freedom in the World index lists them as "Not Free", the Democracy Index - 157 of 167. Should I keep going?

NeverSubmit

You probably should have read it because what it clearly says is that rebels are throwing the bodies of 3 slain government soldiers off a roof and that the Syrian people - you know, the ones that actually live there and bare witness to all of this, widely condemn the practice by saying things like;

No amount of torture & barbarism will bring back our dead, and heinous acts only make us JUST LIKE THE REGIME if we accept them.

FSA throwing security forces from the post building in Bab city in #Aleppo is a big shame & must be widely condemned.

But you are still just blindly throwing your support behind a killer;

Assad, like any leader is not perfect, and any leader of any county can easily be disparaged for faults in the country but the fact remains, Syria was a relatively stable country before the rebels came in from Turkey and Syria was a beacon of secularism in the region. Syria used to be where refugees from Palestine, Iraq or Lebanon would flee because it was a pillar in the region

My Prime Minister is not perfect. She makes mistakes. But she still allows me to try to vote her out if I don't like her work and she doesn't send the Army or security forces in to kill me if I object. Think about what you are endorsing.

The debate is over;

Foreign involvement in Syria is now an open secret.

The rebels have been shown to be a ruthless band of zealots.

Syria's staying power has outlived the tenacity of her detractors, even Hillary is running out of steam, and every speech she makes about Syria is more and more desperate and ridiculous.

Go ahead, hit the thumbs down, that's all you can do, vent your childish frustration with a click. Syria is winning and NATO is losing. We were right about this foreign-back rebel invasion and you guys were wrong.

The rebels are indeed a despicable bunch.

Assad, like any leader is not perfect, and any leader of any county can easily be disparaged for faults in the country but the fact remains, Syria was a relatively stable country before the rebels came in from Turkey and Syria was a beacon of secularism in the region. Syria used to be where refugees from Palestine, Iraq or Lebanon would flee because it was a pillar in the region.

Now, thanks the foreign-backed rebels and their destabilization campaign that has changed.

The Western media will try to paint Syria as a backward country controlled by one evil man and that only NATO intervention can save the Syrian people. Don't fall for it. The last thing Syrians want is NATO bombs landing on their homes and they definitely don't want a puppet government courtesy of the USA.

Tamarana,

You are using as reference the Index of Economic Freedom? From The Heritage Foundation!!!

He has not implemented reforms he promised or eased political repression. They have responded to anti-government protests with a brutal crackdown...The economy is characterised by crippling state bureaucracy, high unemployment, inflation and rising budget defecit. The rule of law is characterised by being fragile, inconsistent, corrupt and susceptible to political interference. Business is characterised by heavy state intervention.

Are you talking about Assad or Obama?

Do you have links for this? I'm genuinely interested to read them.

If you were able to find the above information, and if you are genuinely interested, I am sure you can find it. Many of the initial terrible crimes where entire families had their throats slit, were proven to be committed by the rebels; and this was documented by a UN or Arab League fact-finding mission. The rebels throwing people off the roofs, and many other crimes, were reported several times by Russia Today. Press TV also reports on similar executions, including the hanging of a small child.

Assad might not be an angle and its perfectly understandable that some people do not like him, but it is a 100% certainty that the rebels are not fighting for the Syrian people to have better lives and greater freedom.

As requested, here's the link for the video of the rebels throwing people off of the roof of a building, from the LA times

To be fair, I haven't watched the video as I don't have the stomach for such things.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/08/syria-rebels-video-bodies-thrown-off-roof.html

Iso Poika

The Syrian regime is totalitarian, all the decisions are taken by a few people, but it is nowhere as repressive as the major backers of the rebels. They have good education, women's rights, and they HAD a growing economy with no or very little debt. And they had peace

Wierd. I've seen a couple of pro - Assadists assert this on here. On the index of Economic freedom, Syria ranks 139 of 179. He has not implemented reforms he promised or eased political repression. They have responded to anti-government protests with a brutal crackdown entirely consistent with his, and his father's rule. The economy is characterised by crippling state bureaucracy, high unemployment, inflation and rising budget defecit. The rule of law is characterised by being fragile, inconsistent, corrupt and susceptible to political interference. Business is characterised by heavy state intervention. The didn't have peace, they had complete repression as you well know. There is no politcal freedom whatsoever. Anyone trying to pass it off as anything other than what it clearly is, is tripping.

Considering the atrocious acts committed by the rebels (including executing children and throwing people off roofs) I can't see how anyone can expect the repression to decrease if the rebels take over

Do you have links for this? I'm genuinely interested to read them.

In all, at least 56 people—including 22 civilians—were killed on the first day of Eid, the festival celebrated by Muslims to mark the end of the holy month of Ramadan, the Britain-based group said.

Is the above statement from the article a fact?

If so I have two questions:

Why is something based on what one special interest group claims a fact. Who did the killings? The rebels or the Syrian police?

＠Virtuoso

The only links posted in the comments on this article are mine, and they don't appear to be biased.

So what is your somewhat cryptic comment addressing? You ask a number of questions and offer no answers. Well, I don't think that all of the articles are biased, and even where there is a bias, it is something from which one can learn something about the author and news organization.

This JT article presents a somewhat more balanced selection of facts than most, pointing to both tragic civilian deaths which the Western media refers to as "collateral damage" when the West is the faction doing the bombing) as well as hostile acts of war being committed by foreign intelligence services.

Virtuoso,

I hope you do not expect us to provide links every time we post on a thread about Syria. Plenty of links have been provided already, look back at previous articles.

Readers of news from the middle east for decades now have been reading descriptions of Syria as having one of the most repressive governments in the region, a family-run system propped up by a huge security apparatus.

The Syrian regime is totalitarian, all the decisions are taken by a few people, but it is nowhere as repressive as the major backers of the rebels. They have good education, women's rights, and they HAD a growing economy with no or very little debt. And they had peace!

Considering the atrocious acts committed by the rebels (including executing children and throwing people off roofs) I can't see how anyone can expect the repression to decrease if the rebels take over.

The Jingle Bells thing is strange indeed. The media is definitely feeding us a fairy tale.

Yeah, the protest is probably choreographed by the west; a staged event just like the toppling of Saddam's statue.

It's interesting that the posters in here who attack the news articles about Syria as being biased haven't provided links to articles that are not biased. Could it be because there aren't any? And if most or all of the media takes an overwhelmingly negative slant toward the Assad government, what does that say about bias in the media? Readers of news from the middle east for decades now have been reading descriptions of Syria as having one of the most repressive governments in the region, a family-run system propped up by a huge security apparatus.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jSGDRU6U08b54Gdi3d5gcgd4PNcw?docId=59989a70a7994304963230ef3099fbf0

"Brahimi has an incredibly strong reputation around the U.N., but is also well-known for not taking orders from the big powers or worrying too much about media attention," Gowan said in an e-mail. "This may be just what is needed in Syria now: a hardened but independent mediator, who will stick with diplomatic efforts even if he faces a lot of criticism for failing to cut a deal fast." "Syrians must come together as a nation in the quest for a new formula," he said. "This is the only way to ensure that all Syrians can live together peacefully, in a society not based on fear of reprisal, but on tolerance.

The West cannot maintain its duplicitous disposition of calling for a political transition in the media while supplying material support for violence behind the scenes.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-08-18/middle-east/33261089_1_syria-envoy-arab-league-envoy-legitimate-aspirations

Speaking to The Associated Press by telephone from Paris, Brahimi said "I realize it's an extremely complicated and very, very difficult mission." He said he hopes military intervention isn't necessary, and that talking about a military option is akin to admitting diplomatic failure.

US secretary of state Hillary Clinton welcomed Brahimi's appointment, saying he "will continue the pursuit of an end to the conflict and a peaceful transition in Syria."

The American Secretary of State goes on to say:

"My message to special envoy Brahimi is simple: The United States stands ready to support you and secure a lasting peace that upholds the legitimate aspirations for a representative government of the people of Syria," Clinton said. "And to the Syrian people: you are not alone. The international community remains fully committed to a Syrian-led political transition leading to a pluralistic political system representing the will of the people."

I'm not sure what to make of her call for a "pluralistic political system representing the will of the people" here. A simple majoritarian model of popular democracy would bring about a Sunni dominated polity, not a "pluralistic political system".

The phrase "will of the people" is the touch point. Brahimi, on the other hand, has made tolerance the touchstone of his approach, which already seems to demonstrate a more balanced approach that takes the sectarian sentiment into consideration in advance.

Perhaps it will be able for Brahimi to press the US administration for some clearer statement of what it has in mind in terms of a "pluralistic political system", and then bring other powers concerned into the discussion, initially mediating the intellectual approach to reaching a solution.

It would seem that this may be the point on which the possibility of a peaceful political transition hinges.

Iso,

Some really nice points.

The bias in the article is blatant, and a lot of people simply buy into the simply dialectic that's presented to them.

The Jingle Bells thing is strange indeed. The media is definitely feeding us a fairy tale.

6 months ago when posters such as myself asserted the idea of foreign involvement we were derided as being tin foil hat guys. Now it's openly announced in Western Newspapers that NATO intelligence agencies are supporting and aiding the foreign rebels.

Funny how this article makes no mention of the support he gets from the Syrian population.

All we get is “Eid is here, Eid is here, God curse you, O Bashar,”

And they sang that to the tune of Jingle Bells!!! Doesn't seem like the protesters were typical Muslims.

And the article does give the false impression that all, or at least the majority, of the casualties are caused by the Syrian military.

Assad... has characterised the conflict as a battle against a foreign “terrorist” plot aided by the West and its allies in the region, led by Sunni powerhouse Saudi Arabia.

Assad is 100% correct.

Funny how this article makes no mention of the support he gets from the Syrian population.

All we get are “Eid is here, Eid is here, God curse you, O Bashar,”

And they sang that to the tune of Jingle Bells!!! Doesn't seem like the protesters were typical Muslims.

And the article does give the false impression that all, or at least the majority, of the casualties are caused by the Syrian military.

Assad... has characterised the conflict as a battle against a foreign “terrorist” plot aided by the West and its allies in the region, led by Sunni powerhouse Saudi Arabia.

Assad is 100% correct.

So, I guess the whole debate about whether or not there's NATO interference in Syria is over.

Where have you been? The debate has been over for months. Everybody knows that NATO and western nations have been supplying Syrian rebels with intelligence for over a year as well as limited material support. That is where the aid stops though as I've never seen any evidence of western nations sending soldiers or 'mercenaries' into the region.

The sad part is that it's the Syrian people who suffer as the rebels have become increasingly violent

You were trying to say, "Assad" and his regime are making the people suffer, there, I fixed it for you.

"We can be proud of the significant contribution we are making to the fall of the Assad regime," an official from Germany's BND foreign intelligence service told Bild am Sonntag newspaper.

Britain's Sunday Times said British intelligence was helping rebels launch successful attacks on government forces with information gathered from their listening posts in nearby Cyprus.

So, I guess the whole debate about whether or not there's NATO interference in Syria is over.

to the strategically vital Middle East state.

That says it all. This has been a Western instigated uprising from the beginning, because of they above. And the evidence of NATO plotting against Syria is now undeniable.

The sad part is that it's the Syrian people who suffer as the rebels have become increasingly violent and as they're rampaging through Syria with NATO supplied weapons like a band of brigands, but with a fundamentalist religious fever.

This Assad dares show his face in public, the man has NO shame whatsoever. Can't wait for the day to come just like when US forces got Saddam and they said " We got him" When that day comes when the rebels kick out Assad and his cohorts, that is a day when the people of Syria can have some semblance of hope.