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At least 120 killed in six Paris terror attacks; police hunt for accomplices

240 Comments
By ANGELA CHARLTON and LORI HINNANT

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240 Comments
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Horrific. It's still on-going.

If this is retaliation for the death of the masked coward from Daesh then the French anti-terror squads really dropped the ball. Or simply it's too easy for an Islamic nut with a grudge to get an AK in France. Tell me again why the state should be able listen in on my phone and read my emails again?

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Get used to it, Europe. It's only going to get worse.

All the security in the world can't prevent these attacks when for decades you've invited in huge numbers of people with rabid anti-Western beliefs, while your authorities dismiss the role of religion in religious-inspired violence.

And by the way, a big part of your tourism industry has been ruined, one of the biggest earners for a city like Paris. Get used to being poorer, while your at it.

18 ( +44 / -26 )

How Religion Poisons Everything: Christopher Hitchens ...

At Paris, it seems pretty clear the Religious Extreemists are executing innocent people one by one in a theater. When the morning light reveals the extent of this pointless slaughter the world will again face the waste and uselessness of Religion gone off the rails. How many children will these madmen kill this time?

18 ( +25 / -7 )

Thanks Jeff

We appreciate your support.

0 ( +16 / -16 )

Muslims mass killing innocent people in the name of Allah and Islam, yet again.

Charlie Hebdo was only a taste, a preview of much larger events to come. Even this event is a preview of what's to come.

There is no way to completely wipe out a worldwide network of zealots not only prepared to die for their beliefs but itching to do so.

Where I live in Sydney, it's become 'fasionable' or 'trendy' to dismiss any links between Islam and terrorism, citing examples of 'Christian terrorism' and pointing out the vast majority of Muslims live in peace, but when a muslim can turn into a Jihadi in a matter of months, a finger must be pointed at the religion itself.

There are people I went to school with, I worked in the same office with, and people I share buses and trains daily with who are plotting the death of me and my family in the name of Islam. And we are powerless to stop them.

13 ( +24 / -11 )

Nice one, JeffLee - let's all blame the victims so we can feel better about this.

We CANNOT let these terrorists, whoever they are and whichever group they come from, undermine our basic humanity. If they turn us against our fellow human beings, they will have won.

We cannot turn our backs on genuine refugees, especially those that these groups are deliberately trying to create, even if it means exposing ourselves to danger. Turning humanity against itself has been far too easy in the past, as the last century's two World Wars and the on-going state of war on this planet makes all too clear.

But we must learn to overcome that tendency, or we will destroy ourselves as a species.

THAT is exactly what these people want; they want to turn us against each other so that they can control us. We cannot let that happen.

6 ( +20 / -14 )

Yes, Jeff, in Europe we get killed by religious radicals.

In the US we get killed by Americans.

I don't see anyone winning at this atm.

1 ( +18 / -17 )

CNN saying more than 60 killed WTF?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Awful stuff, Rest in Peace to the poor, innocent victims.

Make no mistake: this will be the turning point where Europeans decide enough is enough, and start cracking down on those of a certain "religion" that are responsible for these outrageous attacks. And I really can't blame them. So many people of this "religion" absolutely hate the West, freedom, democracy and equality for women. They have just dug their own graves.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

Vive la France. Vive l'humanité.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

Just heard on FOX that there were 5 explosions and unrelated to the first initial attacks and now they are starting to kill hostages.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

People blaming the migrant situation for this might want to consider the migrants are running from the same sh*t.

At the same time, if it later turns out that the attackers got in disguised as migrants, Europe does need to tighten controls.

Europe now has to walk a very tight rope between pragmatism and idealism.

Stay safe people in Paris!

PS: Some reports suggest the attackers shouted...... you guessed it, Allahu Akbar. And yet we will be subjected to the same drivel that religion has nothing to do with it. These attacks are just a symptom, and the world quickly needs to focus on the problem rather than the symptom.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Heh, what's Merkel thinking now? Just a matter of time until the asylum seekers are granted asylum, settle down and wait to strike somewhere in Germany.

The US Dept. of Homeland Security all the way down to the beat Cop in small cities will have their work cut out for them too. Once Kerry starts letting in 200,000 islamic refugees within the next 2-3 years.

This exactly what ISIS wants.

0 ( +12 / -12 )

Europe lets all these muslims in and this is what you get. There's no going back now, Europe is totally screwed. If Japan lets refugees in, they'll get the same.

10 ( +24 / -14 )

People blaming the migrant situation for this might want to consider the migrants are running from the same sh*t.

True, but ironically some of those migrants fleeing terrorism will become the very terrorists they are fleeing from. Migrants settle into a new society, grow up in low socioeconomic communities, harbour anger against authorities, and next thing you know they are plotting to execute you and I because we don't believe in their Allah.

The man behind the recent Sydney siege was an Iranian who had fled and resettled in Australia, and collected welfare benefits before killing two Sydneysiders whose taxes paid for his food and shelter.

9 ( +16 / -7 )

"Some people, just want to watch the world burn"

4 ( +6 / -2 )

A large disaffected Muslim population and unmitigated flow of immigrants do have a lot to do with this. No question.

How France and the rest of Europe deal with this is the question.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

Horrible. I expected France to have better security, especially after the Charlie Hebdo attack. Are we still going to ignore the big elephant in the room? One other problem is how these type of violence tend to go on a vicious cycle. I think the immediate way to prevent this in the near future is to tighten the borders, at least until the countries where these attackers came from have left the dark ages and have joined the rest of the world. But I'm the bad guy for saying this I guess.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Ah, the religion of peace kills again! I know there is no easy answer to this problem, but it is getting worse and worse year by year. The refugee problem is way out of control. Most of the refugees are men in the mid-30's. They leave their families in the dust bowl they are escaping and bring all their troubles and ideals with them. Sadly, the world has to stop accepting these refugees and focus on wiping out the extremist groups at their source. I'm sure we are going to see many legislation changes as a result of these attacks and not just in France. Countries like, England, Australia and many other European countries have been too lenient with accepting Muslim refugees and immigrants. I know they have not integrated into Australian society and expect to have their own laws. This is not immigration! It is invasion! It's time for the western world to band together and stop this! Put the money into wiping out the source instead of paying for the victims.

Stay strong France!

7 ( +13 / -6 )

The army on the streets would seem to be the how France is dealing with it right now. Sending in the troops was probably the right call but I can't remember seeing that in the eighteen years I've lived here, this is going to be a bad one, cowards they are whoever it is

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Anyone that thinks that the Muslim world doesn't have a problem with the west or should I say, radical Islam definitely has a problem with the west and if anyone thinks that leaving the ME will minimize these attacks is NOT dealing with a full deck and now it's all coming to fruition and I believe this is just the beginning of what is going to come.

3 ( +12 / -9 )

Let's not forget one of the world's first experiences of inner-city mass terrorism was in Japan by a Japan-born terrorist group so can't simply blame immigration for this.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Attack after attack by the same group of people, relatives, friends or countrymen of the very people who storm your borders and demand they be sheltered, demand they get rights and demand and demand and demand.

Aren't Western governments sick and tired of this crap? Sick and tired of trying to toss money at this problem by training locals to fight terrorists?

How many of these attacks will it take for Russia and the West to unite and systematically sweep through the Middle East and wipe them out, from the left and from the right.

If refugees are angry the West won't take them in, blame your own people, unite against the threats within your religion.

Merkel, your support just turned into an angry mob.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

"I expected France to have better security"

They do. They have among the best security, that's the depressing thing.

For example, nearly all of France's Jewish institutions, including kindergartens and elementary schools, are under 24/7 state security surveillance. It's been that way since the 90s, when a Muslim guy slaughtered some Jewish children, and another Islamist planted a bomb outside an elementary school. Lovely, eh?

The problem is they're French citizens living in a vast open border region, with no passport, visa or other checks. And in France, it's illegal to note religion in census, crime and other official stats. The security forces are extensive but forced to operate in a very, very hamstrung environment, thanks to their politicians and civil servants.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Bollocks to the politics it's been a massacre

0 ( +4 / -4 )

People blaming the migrant situation for this might want to consider the migrants are running from the same sh*t.

Very true, and on both sides, many innocent lives are affected (many more on their side). And one might want to consider who started all this sh*t. When you have world powers starting and fueling conflicts in countries, you are bound to have some people wanting to return the favor. If people don't want these things to happen in their country, they better learn about what their leaders are doing in their name, and do something about it.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

Make no mistake: this will be the turning point where Europeans decide enough is enough, and start cracking down on those of a certain "religion" that are responsible for these outrageous attacks. And I really can't blame them. So many people of this "religion" absolutely hate the West, freedom, democracy and equality for women. They have just dug their own graves.

Unfortunately, I very much doubt this. In the aftermath of this attack, prepare to see every mainstream French politician deploy the 'no true scotsman' fallacy and 'Islam is a religion of peace' trite. This attack will be said to be due to racism and discrimination the terrorists experienced, and only when France is a truly multicultural society free of hate will these kinds of events stop. More refugees will be let in, and to top it all off the government will use this event as an excuse to increase the security state. You'll get the worst of all worlds - more civil unrest, more attacks, and more state spying on the citizenry.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

At the same time, if it later turns out that the attackers got in disguised as migrants, Europe does need to tighten controls.

As someone who used to live in France, let me tell you exactly how they got in because it's a very common story. They came to France in the 50s and 60s with dreams of a better life as genuine immigrants from former French colonies in North Africa or places like Lebanon, they worked extremely hard and did their best to integrate into French culture. They lived on very modest means without many luxuries, but even so, they were always thankful for everything France had done for them.

But then they had children and now grandchildren..., and it's those offspring born in France who are suffering an identity crisis. They feel like they don't belong in France and that French society is the cause of all of their problems. They are the ones turning to radical Islam and killing people.

This problem has been a ticking timebomb, decades in the making. Germany will discover this in 20 years.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

This is terrible news, and I'm happy to stand in solidarity with the French people, and especially the French military and counter-terror forces who I'm sure will work overtime to put the hurt on those responsible.

As an immigrant in Japan, life is sometimes frustrating here but I definitely understand the Japanese approach: a small trickle of foreigners is easily managed, monitored, and assimilated into Japanese culture. Mass immigration only worked in the Western hemisphere because the bulk of immigrants were Christian and the religion had already gotten the sectarian violence out of its system. Plus the economy was growing. Now the global economy is in recession or stagnant nearly everywhere.

An influx of young poor people, with a potentially very violent ideology is just asking for trouble. The Sunnis and Shiites are currently fighting the Islamic equivalent of Europe's Thirty Years War. Until it is resolved, and hopefully in favor of the minority Shia (the more moderate of the two factions IMO), expect violence against any and all parties that might be "oppressors".

I'm trying to resist the temptation to make a quip about France's strict gun laws too... "Where there's a will, there's a way." And clearly the willingness of these disaffected Muslims to perpetrate acts of extreme slaughter and terror cannot be ignored. Trying to restrict access to the tools necessary to ply their "trade" clearly hasn't worked.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Reading the comments on this page, seeing the fear mongering and anti-islam hatred, just shows the terrorists have won again. For them a the killings are a means to an end, the true goal is to increase hatred, so as to force a war between Islam and the West. Now more Westerners will kill more Muslims, causing more Muslims to become extremists, so that they support the terrorists.

Blood begets blood, killing begets killing, hatred begets hatred. It's only until someone takes the higher ground and doesn't react in anger and hatred, that the cycle can stop.

-9 ( +12 / -21 )

Reading the comments on this page, seeing the fear mongering and anti-islam hatred, just shows the terrorists have won again. For them a the killings are a means to an end, the true goal is to increase hatred, so as to force a war between Islam and the West. Now more Westerners will kill more Muslims, causing more Muslims to become extremists, so that they support the terrorists.

I don't want the West to kill more Muslims, I just want the West to stop allowing hundreds of thousands of them into our countries every year. I have nothing against the people of the ME or their religions, and would be happy to see the West stop interfering in their affairs. But if I wanted Muslim neighbors I would go live in a Muslim country, not import them as immigrants.

9 ( +17 / -8 )

I am Paris.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Now more Westerners will kill more Muslims, causing more Muslims to become extremists, so that they support the terrorists.

That is exactly what some people want. And next week, France's only aircraft carrier will leave for the Persian Gulf to "fight IS".

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

All the security in the world can't prevent these attacks when for decades you've invited in huge numbers of people with rabid anti-Western beliefs, while your authorities dismiss the role of religion in religious-inspired violence.

But we're just fulfilling our moral responsibility. We're just trying to be good humanitarians. Welcoming these people with open arms and the hum of kumbaya between our ears is only the right thing to do. Remember we're not racists, bigots, islamophobic, or that sort of stuff.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I'm sorry to say that Europe as we know it is in the process of committing suicide. There is simply a refusal to accept the reality that Islam is incompatible with and in bloody opposition to western society and values. This living in denial is at this point bordering on mental illness. Islam is not a religion of peace - you only need to look at its history. And while the politicians and media will feed the usual lies to the public you can be sure that all over the Islamic world "ordinary peace loving Muslims" including the ones currently inundating Germany are privately or openly celebrating right now.

And this horrific event will pale into insignificance compared with what is coming.

18 ( +25 / -7 )

No more apologies no more skirting around the obvious, religion is dangerous.

Belief, and the idea that there is any justification, or even reward, for these disgusting inhumane attacks takes the kind of mind twisting delusional non-sense that religion provides in spades.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Reading the comments on this page, seeing the fear mongering and anti-islam hatred, just shows the terrorists have won again. For them a the killings are a means to an end, the true goal is to increase hatred, so as to force a war between Islam and the West. Now more Westerners will kill more Muslims, causing more Muslims to become extremists, so that they support the terrorists.Blood begets blood, killing begets killing, hatred begets hatred. It's only until someone takes the higher ground and doesn't react in anger and hatred, that the cycle can stop.

Please read ohara's comments. When you're done, please read it again. Especially the part about denial.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Please read ohara's comments. When you're done, please read it again.

Done. I guess after reading ohara's comments, all I can really say is this:

Reading the comments on this page, seeing the fear mongering and anti-islam hatred, just shows the terrorists have won again. For them a the killings are a means to an end, the true goal is to increase hatred, so as to force a war between Islam and the West. Now more Westerners will kill more Muslims, causing more Muslims to become extremists, so that they support the terrorists.

Blood begets blood, killing begets killing, hatred begets hatred. It's only until someone takes the higher ground and doesn't react in anger and hatred, that the cycle can stop.

-7 ( +13 / -20 )

Here's a twist on most of the posters here. How about selling your cars. Most of this violence is a direct result of the US debt and the petrodollar/Saudi Treasury Bond scheme. To keep the US dollar as the #1 currency, these psychopaths have created this situation in order to send ME oil and gas to Europe via Syria. Syria said no, and then this happened. Everyone else who has has tried to sell their resources in a different currency has either been eliminated, Gaddafi, Saddam, or are making deals to join the club, Iran. Most are aware by now that some ME nations, the EU and the US are funding these Jihadists, unfortunately the MSM won't tell you why except for the reliable 70 year old line that they always use, "cuz he's a BAD GUY!" Buy it if you want, I don't.

It's called BLOWBACK folks. Get the BIG PICTURE? Stop reacting like children in a sandbox and take responsibility for Western civilizations wars for profit and control. Put blame on Paris where it belongs, on all of us for letting these criminals/bankers/the MIC/ the MSM control our future.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

140 dead now. 100 at the concert venue. They were throwing bombs into the crowd and yelling it was for Syria. Something wrong here. Why don't they send them all back to Syria if they love it so much?

12 ( +16 / -4 )

I hope a wave of punishment comes down on these inhuman destroyers. I can't believe such people live on this planet. I believe the meek shall inherent the earth and wicked will be up rooted from it.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

RIP.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Because we have become such a liberal and accepting world. No more boundaries. laws no longer respected. Human life means nothing if used to promote your own cause. Cultural homogenizing which clearly doesn't mix with radical Islam.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

So GWB, how's your democracy in the ME going? This can be laid firmly at your feet. You invaded and inflamed a region that comparatively, was stable. You created terrorist where none existed and have brought their anger, violence and terror to the Western world. Well done George. And what was it you said? You would have never done anything different? The irony is that France was GWB's greatest critic.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Death count is over 140 now. The "war on terror" has taken a scary new turn.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Stunned. Just totally stunned by this heinous act of terrorism against innocent citizens and the amount of victims. My deepest thoughts are with those who were killed, their families and the whole of France. I feel sick to my stomach right now.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

What I find astounding is that there are some people who are surprised at these events. This & more attacks are coming to Western countries.

Its absolutely terrible but not a surprise.

Sending my best to the people of France.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

This is just terrible, absolutely terrible. My heart goes out to the victims and to the families.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

European Union could read all the comments across Internet, people told you don't open borders, don't accept refugees you don't know what kind of background they had, you will only make Europe unsafe. People told you but you don't listen! I feel sad the citizens they have "clowns" as governments. This is just the beginning of the end of Europe you accept more of 3 millions of refugees. You don't even know what kind of people enter in your countries. Like I say in other comments terrorist groups can be infiltrated in this group of "refugees" and hide in the populations. This is a sad day......

5 ( +7 / -2 )

EUROPE FOR THE EUROPEANS!!

2 ( +11 / -9 )

This might persuade the EU to start policing its borders, instead of allowing millions of invaders to walk in unchallenged. EU countries must start defending themselves, or their people will be slaughtered.

13 ( +16 / -3 )

Sure you guys will not like what I have to say but here goes nothing. There will be a short war in France against terrorist and it just began sadly.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

European governments have actively encouraged the mass immigration of people who believe in a God we don't believe in and an ideology we consider backward. A very small percentage are extremists, but a significant minority tacitly support the kind of events unfolding in Paris. Too many muslims have grown up learning to despise us and this is what we get. We must ban faith schools as they are deliberately divisive and we must stop allowing our cities to be taken over by the zealots of any faith. It's not too late to eradicate this problem, but it will all get worse before it gets better. If we do nothing other than re-state Islam as the religion of peace and the need for more counter-narratives, we are finished. Extremists are not interested in our counter narratives. Those who leave our shores to go to madrasas or join extremist groups should never be allowed back into our countries. Jihadi John is not British. He was born in Kuwait and was raised a muslim. He then went off and joined a terrorist group that murders innocent civilians. Unfortunately there are now plenty like him in France, UK and elsewhere and we need to stop importing and nurturing this type of person or we will see attacks like this one on a regular basis.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Religious extremism is a form of mental illness. RIP victims. My heart is out to the families and friends of the victims, and to the French people. May the terrorists suffer on earth then die painfully.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

There will be a short war in France against terrorist and it just began sadly.

The president of France stated that these attacks were the worst thing that have happened in France since WW2.

Short war? Could be in for the long haul Throw Germany on that list too.

Further, incidents like these only show countries like Australia and Japan are doing the right thing by turning away boat people and islamic refugees knowcking on the door.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

The root cause of this that won't end soon or even in centuries is the ideology behind that believers worship. I can only see changing the ideology/text as the only solution, but it is just impossible to see that to happen.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@shonanbb

They were throwing bombs into the crowd and yelling it was for Syria. Something wrong here. Why don't they send >them all back to Syria if they love it so much?

That's what irritates me about these "refugees" and "migrants": seems to be a LOT of military-age men amongst their ranks. Why aren't they fighting to make their motherland a better place? If you are going to relocate to greener pastures...don't bring your problems with you. I've decided I can't fix America so I plan to settle here in Japan, but you don't see me running around shouting "Black lives matter! Stop police brutality! Long live Edward Snowden!"...and then shooting/blowing up Japanese people to send a message. It's totally misguided.

@Kansaicoon

I believe the meek shall inherent the earth

The meek will inherent the earth....after the strong have finished raping it and discarded it as refuse. But not before.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

EUROPE FOR THE EUROPEANS!!

I've never heard/read of any terrorist attacks in Europe by immigrants of East Asian descent, though. Almost all are law-abiding citizens who contribute to society.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

rather than put aside politics & focus on eradicating muslim extremists,the E.U welcomes the usurpers with open arms,foolishly hoping the muslims will assimilate.this has just been a taste of their version & understanding of that concept. - Mr. Kerry!- No More Muslims in the U.S.!

5 ( +7 / -2 )

i feel sorry for the people in paris cos their politicians didnt protect them. japan is the only country who understands this, stay a mono culture, mono language and mono race and you can protect ur citizen from such fears of being attacked.

there is no safer place than japan. i think this is just the beginning of a war in europe.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Maybe this will finally convince the West of the serious threat that ISIS represents.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Well, you guys blaming US governments for opening borders, should remember that most countries were against receiving muslim refugees. But in countries like France and Germany, citizens took the streets demanding their governments to open borders.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I feel very sorry for France, but I also can't wait to leave Canada because I know it's coming here. It's just the beginning like Charlie Hebdo this is not the end. Here in Canada, our new pm want to take 25 000 Syrians before the new year. It's good to help other people, but you have to make sure they can fit in your country or what happened in France today will become ''normal''.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Hope japan stays strong and keeps these people out we do not need that here.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

"Though who was responsible for Friday night’s violence remained a mystery"

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Because we have become such a liberal and accepting world. No more boundaries. laws no longer respected. Human life means nothing if used to promote your own cause. Cultural homogenizing which clearly doesn't mix with radical Islam.

If we truly were a more liberal and accepting world there wouldn't be religious dogma in the first place.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

I just read a report that French people are attacking and burning refugee camps. It seems the war has begun.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

The problem is that they believe they are right, and therefore superior, even though they worship the same God as the Sunni Muslims, the Christians and the Jews. An absurdity of logic.

They are actually breaking the first law of their own religion. There is no God but God.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

JeffLeeNOV. 14, 2015 - 07:58AM JST Get used to it, Europe. It's only going to get worse. All the security in the world can't prevent these attacks when for decades you've invited in huge numbers of people with rabid anti-Western beliefs, while your authorities dismiss the role of religion in religious-inspired violence. And by the way, a big part of your tourism industry has been ruined, one of the biggest earners for a city like Paris. Get used to being poorer, while your at it.

Wow, why people support such cold hearted responses like this astounds me.

Let's not start blaming the Europeans for this, they are just living there lives people everywhere else. Nobody deserves this kind of attack. Don't blame the attacked for attacks - the blame lies squarely on these murdering thugs.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

I wonder if the French feel like they live in Utopia now? That was the general belief when allowing so many Muslim immigrants to live in France. Germany is next. Europeans will eventually learn when their way of life has been taken away from them by foreigners

This is a prime example of why the Japanese government will never allow large scale immigration of foreign nationals. Even if the economy shrinks to African levels. Fear of terrorism incidents like this create fear on top of deeply held beliefs not to accept foreigners.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Mr. Kerry!- No More Muslims in the U.S.!

Would this comment be tolerated if it referred to any other group?

We still don't know who is responsible for the attack. Who provided the weapons and explosives?

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Now 140 innocent peoples are gone. The more Muslims you have received in your country the more problems are created. I don't say Muslims are terrorists but they do not share our view of civilization and our belief. If we can draw clear line between Muslims and other world societies and then the world will be peaceful and peoples can live happily and enjoy their lives. Those Islamist terrorists are descendants of migrants or refugees or refugees themselves. France was one of a few countries which generously resettled those Muslim migrants and Muslim refugees in its land and now those Muslim terrorists are mercilessly killing their innocent hosts for name of Allah. If your country does not have Muslim populations and then do not take Muslims into your country and ignore UN, International amnesty and refugee organization because no one come to defend you when Muslims turn on you.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

"Don't blame the attacked for attacks"

I'm doing no such thing. I'm pointing at policy and blaming that.... and the authorities who created it, who are not average citizens.

"Wow, why people support such cold hearted responses like this astounds me."

Criticizing bad policy has nothing to do with being "cold-hearted" or "warm hearted."

7 ( +10 / -3 )

JeffLee: "All the security in the world can't prevent these attacks when for decades you've invited in huge numbers of people with rabid anti-Western beliefs, while your authorities dismiss the role of religion in religious-inspired violence. "

Hogwash. France is one of the strictest nations when it comes to fighting 'terrorism', banning head veils citing safety reasons, being incredibly strict about screening, etc. If what you were saying is true Germany would be experiencing this daily, as well as other nations that have let in Muslims. France is also doing a lot of bombing, lest you forget. You're lumping everyone together in a way that YOU would be persecuted if it were another religion, whether you believed in it or not, simply because of where you are from. If you launch a fight against all of Islam over this then they have already won, and you have lost.

Why don't we wait for the specifics before denouncing immigration in general or blaming an entire belief system.

Doo-Bop: "Would this comment be tolerated if it referred to any other group?"

Exactly! Whenever it's a Christian that does something many assume, which is wrong in itself, was committed by a Muslim, they suddenly become quiet and claim that you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

In any case, absolutely shocking to read about this... I hope they find who is responsible quickly.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

Let's not start blaming the Europeans for this, they are just living there lives people everywhere else. Nobody deserves this kind of attack. Don't blame the attacked for attacks - the blame lies squarely on these murdering thugs.

I don't think it's about blaming Europeans, its about blaming European legislative ideology. Expecting every migrant Abad, Shibad, and Kibab to become upstanding citizens to their host country and then becoming shocked when one gets stabbed in the back with such extremely naïve ideals is a problem. Not saying to give up being humanitarian, but the EU govs must learn when to open their arms and when to close them. Learn to use discretion.

As I mentioned quite a while ago, Islamic extremism is going to eventually run out tolerance towards it's "ideals". It's already been working on the citizen/individual level, and its only going to get worse from there. And I'm predicting there will eventually be a reverse holocaust of sorts towards Muslims in general such as "internment camps" and kicking any individual that follows Islam out of the country. I still can't get over the fact that Germany was dumb enough to allow Islamic "court" decisions to over-ride their own country's LAWS in order to "feel" they were being progressive.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Reading the comments on this page, seeing the fear mongering and anti-islam hatred

You're the one who is stirring things up and contributing to the creation of a toxic atmosphere by using phrases like "anti-islam hatred".

It seems that you are falling in with the terrorists' attempts to poison people's thinking.

Let's be quite clear, being anti-islam does not mean "hatred".

It is OK to be anti-islam.

And islam is causing many problems for itself by the preference of many of it's followers to carve out a separate, almost parallel, existence for themselves in the Western societies they have emigrated to.

Many muslims want as little to do with non-muslims as possible. "Multi-culture" has very little meaning for them.

Here is a link to a documentary by the respected BBC Panorama team, highlighting how muslims are carving separate enclaves and separate existences for themselves in the UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/6631541.stm

8 ( +16 / -8 )

It's times like this I feel lucky to have an ocean's worth of distance.

Sad, but not surprised. The key is what we do next. And I have no idea what that should be.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

It was said that it was only a matter of time before internal attacks started taking place, and now it has happened. And it will clearly happen again. This should be a huge wake up call for Europe.

And as for this:

Copyright 2015 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Bite me. It's AP - you can get the story from a thousand sites worldwide and I'll be pasting the entire story on one of my news blogs just like everyone else.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I was going to comment, but JeffLee put it perfectly.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

'EUROPE FOR THE EUROPEANS!!'

No. Europe for the civilised. Massive influxes of people from places where savage Bronze Age beliefs are widespread isn't the way forward. I hope decent, civilised people will always be welcome in Europe.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

This has all the hallmarks of having been orchestrated by a central planning body. You do not find large numbers of suicide volunteers all suddenly getting the same home-grown idea off the net. As Mumbai was orchestrated in Pakistan, I am guessing that this was planned months back from somewhere like Raqqa in Syria. A ready and welcome hosting community within France, and specific hostile movements such as the French aircraft carrier off the coast of Syria, must have provided opportunity and excuse, and made France an attractive target.

No-one in the press has yet pointed out the date as far as I am aware, but it was Friday the 13th. IS, and al Qaida before them, really love these symbolic dates. Not very spiritual, I agree, but politically very cunning.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I love Paris and have many friends there. My heart goes out to all the victims of this disgusting mass murder. I must extend my sympathies to any innocent people who will be hurt by this horrid act. Be strong, Paris.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Reading those comments makes me sad as well. I see plenty of hatred, fear and victim-blaming and the voice of reason represented by Strangerland, igloobuyer, Doo-Bop and Smithinjapan is all but drowned out. Whenever I 'like' a comment it has already gathered so many 'dislikes' it makes me think I hit the wrong button...

This vicious and unprecedented attack in Paris is quite obviously a retaliation for the French involvement in Syria. But the purpose is not only revenge, it is also aimed at the friendly position many European nations have adopted towards the refugees who have been already victimized by the IS, causing them to leave their country to seek safety and a future far away from home. Send them back and they might think, "Allright, maybe the IS is right about those 'infidels'." More cannon-fodder for the IS!

And no, to me it's not okay to be "anti-Islam". Be "anti-religious" or "anti-extremist", but to single out one religion from a world of bigotry is simply not fair.

My heart goes out to my friends in France and I am worried about my gentle and loving Sufi friends and Kurdish neighbours over here. Stay safe, everybody. I'm bracing myself for the thumbs-downs...

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

@Joshua Degreiff "don't accept refugees you don't know what kind of background they had...People told you but you don't listen!"

You are totally right.

@SuperLib"Sad, but not surprised"

Indeed. You used to ask why some countries didn't open their borders and host so-called "refugees".

6 ( +9 / -3 )

I don't think we should blame Europe for welcoming people fleeing, rather we should blame the ones funding extremist and all organized terrorism for vested interest.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Hold on and be strong, Paris!

My entire family's thoughts and sympathies are with you.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It's really quite absurd.

Unleash 25,000 of your own troops in your own city after the attack. The terrorists already beat you. They strike when life is normal, when our short attention spans have already gotten over the last attack and the government makes you believe we have you protected, which is crazy.

You can't have armed soldiers at every one of your cafes, every stadium, museum, or street corner. You can't arm your citizens either.

You have to go after them, to the heart of the beast, the root of this poisonous infestation. Go to the Middle East with each country who is willing to fight this head on. Eliminate these extremists in the their homes, then those splinter cells will be weakened and easier to find.

Make all these fleeing Syrians believe that there is hope in staying in Syria and fighting for the country. They must stay and fight and we can't just arm our own cities and believe we're safe when everyone knows these monsters are still out there.

I'm so sick of saying we gave billions of dollars to locals to fight IS or we provided logistical support to locals escaping IS or we will put armed guards at our subways.

If we as a civilized world attack this beast side by side, it'll be a victory for those escaping Syria and those of us attacked by IS and refugees can stay home and rebuild their home.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Reading those comments makes me sad as well. I see plenty of hatred, fear and victim-blaming

What made me sad when I read this page was the brutal murders of dozens of innocent people in Paris.

In my mind, I saw plenty of hatred too... on the faces of the terrorists who murdered them.

I saw fear too... on the faces of the victims as they were murdered.

There will be more sadness... from the family members who have lost loved ones.

These were the thoughts that were uppermost in my mind when I read this page.

You had a different take on it obviously.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

The French are really good at picking up terrorist intel. But nothing prior was pick up. So this suggest to me that terrorist have started to use a different way of communicating and planing their attacks. Electronic means are being avoided. So Governments will develop new Stadligies. I can see Government microchiping people who they wished to be tagged. I can seeing the public agreeing to this because Government Can do what wish when it came to National Security. I can even see Government interning all Muslims like they intern people of Germany and Japan dissident during the war. This is what I can see what will happen. I am not saying that I agree but I would not object if the Government made it law.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

IS is enacting a "Religious Cleansing". They're a modern day Nazi party raping, murdering, torturing innocent people in the most disgusting ways.

Why are so afraid to fight them the way we did when we fought Nazi Germany?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

The truth is that these kind of problems comes from the conflicts that the west itself have promoted in Middle East, because of western economic interests.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Thoughts and prayers for the victims and the wounded, and to all French people. #PrayForParis

3 ( +3 / -0 )

You have to go after them, to the heart of the beast, the root of this poisonous infestation. Go to the Middle East ....

If we as a civilized world attack this beast side by side...

In principle, yes. But so few seem to understand where the heart(s) of the beast is. It might not be all that far from home.

The French are really good at picking up terrorist intel. But nothing prior was pick up. So this suggest to me that terrorist have started to use a different way of communicating and planing their attacks.

Yes, quite interesting, that. To me it suggests something quite different.

I can see Government microchiping people who they wished to be tagged. I can seeing the public agreeing to this because Government Can do what wish when it came to National Security. I can even see Government interning all Muslims like they intern people of Germany and Japan dissident during the war. This is what I can see what will happen. I am not saying that I agree but I would not object if the Government made it law.

Oh no, I would never agree to that. That might be exactly what the planners of this terrorist act had in mind. Anyway, I think it doesn't make sense to take away freedoms, as a response to an attack by people who allegedly "hate our freedoms". Plus, why this talk about interning all Muslims? We still do not know who the attackers are, and even less who their backers are.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

It's only going to get worse. Europe has opened the floodgates to immigration from these Muslim countries for years now, and we're starting to see how incompatible their religion and culture is with Europe's. That's what happens when your country has a loose immigration policy. Germany and other countries who freely took in all these immigrants will understand this soon enough.

My prayers go out to the victims of this horrific incident. R.I.P.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

And while the politicians and media will feed the usual lies to the public you can be sure that all over the Islamic world "ordinary peace loving Muslims" including the ones currently inundating Germany are privately or openly celebrating right now.

(ohara @ 09:35AM JST)

What exactly do you want to say with such an obscure generalization? Do you want people to start looking out for "ordinary peace loving Muslims" in their neighborhood and monitor them?

I know many muslim people and they are obviously shocked by this heinous terror.

I believe with this kind of unspecified accusations of people of a certain belief one is sowing the seeds of discord and hatred.

Being in shock and agony about what is happening in Paris it is hard to engage in a meaningful discussion here, but I feel it is important to not play the hate game that this terrorist obviously are trying to get us into.

It would be respectful towards the victims to allow for a time of mourning and not use this stage for any kind of agitation.

The victims, their relatives and the people in Paris deserve our sympathy and support.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Has anybody noticed that Hollande has declared he will close France`s borders, at least temporary. Well, what one say! Finally an admission that borders actually work and are necessary? And is Angela Merkel paying attention? Or is she already lambasting Holland for stopping the open flow of people?

Of course it is a question of time, until the same happens in Germany and Sweden too.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

'And no, to me it's not okay to be "anti-Islam". Be "anti-religious" or "anti-extremist", but to single out one religion from a world of bigotry is simply not fair'.

Let's be brutally honest here. At this moment in time, Islam poses threats to European societies which is quite different to those posed by other religions. We've had innocent people blown to pieces in large scale Islamic terrorist attacks in Madrid and London. We've had attempts to attack freedom of speech by slaughtering filmmakers in broad daylight and Islamic extremists mowing down cartoonists in their offices with assault weapons. In my own country, people marched in the streets calling for the murder of a man for writing a novel and the leader of the Muslim Council of Britain said that 'death was too good for him'. We also had a soldier butchered in broad daylight by an extremist.

I'm an atheist with no time for any religion, but I just don't see the followers of other faiths behaving in this murderous and threatening manner in modern Europe.

I'm sorry. There is something which needs to be said here. There is a tendency for Muslims to close ranks or start talking about being victimized rather than comprehensive, unequivocal and loud condemnations of this kind of behaviour. Thankfully, there are Muslims who see this themselves and do speak out ( some of them facing the very real threat of violence for doing so - a Muslim cleric in the UK found himself in receipt of death threats for believing in evolution ). Yes, the vast majority of Muslims are decent people but this particular religion is causing problems in Europe in a way no other comes close to. The sooner everyone sees and admits this the better.

18 ( +19 / -1 )

ISIS has been bragging about coming attacks in Europe for some time, this is only one of many that will come. The simple numbers demand it. Assume that among the million "refugees" that Angela Merkel is allowing into Germany this year alone, there are 3% ISIS sympathizers. That is a low and reasonable assumption, but that alone means 3000 rabid jihadists with terror experience. It would insane to assume that they do nothing.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Cowards. To walk into crowds of innocent, unsuspecting, unarmed people in leisure time and kill them with guns and bombs is the absolute epitome of cowardice to me. No honour, no glory, just eternal shame.

In France's case, how many of the attacks, even in the last year are perpetrated by home grown terrorists - the sons of migrants? Because I just caught a news clip that suggested it was most of them.

What a way to be thanked for allowing people to starts a new life in your country.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Tamarama:

" What a way to be thanked for allowing people to starts a new life in your country. "

That is irrelevant from the salafist perspective. What is important from their point of view is to submit the disbelievers under their religious rule. You should read up on what is taught in radical (oftenn Saudi financed) mosques all over Europe. "Their country" is simply the "dar al Harb" which must be conquered. Notice also how young French immigrant kids give their nationality as "muslim" instead of a "French".

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Thank you to all the people who support Europe!! I'm really grateful for your support comments. But I'm really astonished when I read other comments and let me tell you this. I'm European and it's seriously not my fault that some crazy pervs are attacking our countries so STOP saying that it's our fault, that we let them in our country because seriously you don't know anything about our politics and how our people think about them. We HATE them and we want them out of our country but we can't do anything about it. You don't have a clue what's going on in our countries, you don't even know what it means if we vote against the migrants. Then let me clarify it to you ... It means that the people who are for the separation of some countries and who are for the nazism are going to get power. That's exactly what it means. Blaming other countries is easy. But what you're doing right now is just blaming the victims and letting those crazy pervs win.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Cowards. To walk into crowds of innocent, unsuspecting, unarmed people in leisure time and kill them with guns and bombs is the absolute epitome of cowardice to me. No honour, no glory, just eternal shame.

True, but I would say that even more cowardice is shown by those who who fly drones or drop bombs from the air on innocent, unsuspecting, unarmed people in leisure time or enjoying a wedding. What Paris is going through now, many ME countries have been going through on a daily basis for years, because of lies from western leaders. I do feel bad for what the French people are going through now, but I must say that I have been feeling equally bad on a daily basis for many years for what the west has been doing in the ME.

Let's be brutally honest here. At this moment in time, Islam poses threats to European societies which is quite different to those posed by other religions. We've had innocent people blown to pieces in large scale Islamic terrorist attacks in Madrid and London.

Oh, I don't think Islam was behind the Madrid and London attacks. That is why I am very hesitant to implicate Muslims in this latest Paris attack, just because someone is alleged to have said Allahu Akbar.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

Time to start terorising the terorists? How about a nuke on an IS stronghold. (Well it makes one feel that way!)

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Tamarama:

" Cowards. "

Nope, certainly not cowards. Someone who blows himself up on behalf of his belief is not a "coward". A fanatic, yes. Misguided, yes. Brainwashed, yes. But the people who are happy to die for their radical belief are not "cowards".

0 ( +7 / -7 )

It's way past time worldwide Muslim leaders reformed their religion and spoke out against this barbaric variant in the name of their religion. Where is the outrage from leaders of a civilized version of Islam?! Unless they do something to preserve and protect some legitimate, civil interpretation of their religion, this will be the dominant "war" for the next few centuries -- and will inevitably foster a huge violent backlash from western vigilantes.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

It's way past time worldwide Muslim leaders reformed their religion and spoke out against this barbaric variant in the name of their religion. Where is the outrage from leaders of a civilized version of Islam?!

They constantly are speaking out against these acts. But those who seek a "huge backlash from western vigilantes" are working hard so that you never get to hear those protests.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

The Jihadists have hijacked Islam the changes need to come from within.

Anyone remember how Christianity was hijacked and how protestant and Catholics wnt to war over centuries?

look at history and check the crimes by Christians vs Christian and to a certain extend against other religions.

I don't approve of the attacks at all.NMRK.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Well after some sleep I woke up realizing it wasn't just a bad dream. I'm not sure how Hollande's government will respond to this but I'm hoping they aren't planning to remove more civil liberties - they clearly cannot protect us from the lone wolf Islamic nutjobs despite monitoring every single one of us by 'phone and email around the clock.

There was always a prospect of the national front sweeping to power in 2017. Now I would say it's a certainty. Time to brace for the nutters in power as well as the nutters hiding amongst civilians. What a sad state of affairs. Madness.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Itsme:

" The Jihadists have hijacked Islam the changes need to come from within. "

Nope, they have not "hijacked" anything; everything the jihadis do you can find described in the Sunna and the Haddiths. But you are correct, the changes need to come from within. Al Sisi said as much in his speech at Al Anzar University this year.

However, I do not see any sign for this happening, and the Western collective denial of the problem does not help.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

'Oh, I don't think Islam was behind the Madrid and London attacks. That is why I am very hesitant to implicate Muslims in this latest Paris attack, just because someone is alleged to have said Allahu Akbar.'

Really? Who was behind the Madrid and London attacks? By the way, could you post that link I asked for in response to your claim that the captured leaders of IS were not Muslims? I'm genuinely interested.

Do you also think that the gunmen who massacred the Charlie Hebdo staff, the Leader of the Muslim Council of Britain and the people marching and screaming for the death of Salman Rushdie, the man who murdered Theo Van Gogh and the man who slaughtered a soldier on a London street were also not Muslims?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Seriously then Willi, what's the solution? There's six million muslims or more in France, what would you do with them if you could remove "the Western collective denial of the problem"?

Everyone knows manipulative people can pick up the losers in society and brainwash them with the insane version of a 1600 year old fairy tale,

Give me your plan, and be honest please.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

You forget that !multiple interpretations and values assigned to the Sunna and Haddiths.

Which reflects the orthodox, Catholic and Protestant interpretations of the Christian Scriptures.(many which are shared with Jewish and Islamic faiths).

A hornets nest for sure.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Radical Muslims are the snakes and Moderate Muslims are the grass.

But we should not be surprised by this letting thousends of "refugees" walk all over your laws and immegration laws is just asking for trouble I hope the Europeans finally realize that Islam does not mix with western ideals. But i can hear the apologists coming already with their excuses and other muslims blaming it on Israel.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

True, but I would say that even more cowardice is shown by those who who fly drones or drop bombs from the air on innocent, unsuspecting, unarmed people

I do feel bad for what the French people are going through now, but...

, I don't think Islam was behind the Madrid and London attacks. That is why I am very hesitant to implicate Muslims in this latest Paris attack,

This type of view is surprisingly common among Muslims, including those who would normally be seen as moderate and Westernised. No one is saying that they would necessarily support terrorism, but they are quick to explain away terrorist acts or provide some justification. Doo-Bop both links it to the middle east and then in the next breath denies it is an islamist attack, despite evidence to the contrary and all common sense suggesting it is.

From there, it is s quick step to actually supporting the attacks and from there to another quick step to joining IS. This explains why so many seem willing to join IS despite the evilness of it.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Well said Ah_so.

The apologists are terrorist supporters. There is no other way to describe their scum. They are one with the enemy.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

@It'S ME I agree. Islam is not the only religion with a history of violence. However, at this point in time in Europe it is the most menacing one. Most if not nearly all religions have been guilty of bigotry, violence and murder to different degrees. Oh, and not just the Abrahamic faiths.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Madverts:

" Seriously then Willi, what's the solution? There's six million muslims or more in France, what would you do with them if you could remove "the Western collective denial of the problem"?Seriously then Willi, what's the solution? There's six million muslims or more in France, what would you do with them if you could remove "the Western collective denial of the problem"? "

I completely agree that it is a difficult problem. But first things first: FIRST we need to recognize that the problem exists, instead of denying that it exists.

You seem to argue that we can not address the problem, because we don´t have a simply solution. Well, that is not valid.

About "what to do with them" --- I would say "nothing". The issue is not "them", the issue is the ideology. After WW2, Germany had millions of Nazi party members. What did it do with "them"? Well, nothing personal, but it addressed ideology, starting by openly discussing it and outlawing its application and symbols.

NB: Did you read Al Sisis speech?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Jimzo, well said. Exactly.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Jimizo.

I disagree Islamic faith is NOT new to europe erho moors, Ottoman they have been among us for over 2 millennia.

Current politics and stereotyping are the real problem as forcing them to follow Ow rules and laws they never had too before.

As for a religions most got the same problems may it be Jewish, Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, Mayan or whatever when some people start to twist religion for their own en and goals.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Willi,

You seem to argue that we can not address the problem, because we don´t have a simply solution. Well, that is not valid.

Hold on. I ask you for your take on how France should address the problem and you're talking about me and things I haven't even said?

About "what to do with them" --- I would say "nothing". The issue is not "them", the issue is the ideology

But the issue certainly is "them". They are a disaffected large minority and in some ways have legitimate grievances against the way the state has blissfully denied the slow rot in les banlieues.

After WW2, Germany had millions of Nazi party members. What did it do with "them"? Well, nothing personal, but it addressed ideology, starting by openly discussing it and outlawing its application and symbols.

The Allies interned just about everyone. I'm glad you said this because I think this is the kind of strategy you yourself would support for Muslims but dare not actually come out with it. You know you have a right to be pissed off with that religion I think everyone is slowly getting there, but unless there is intelligent discourse and an actual concrete plan to move forward simply criticizing from the sidelines means you are not helping at all. It only serves to ratchet up the mistrust between everyone. 6 million people is a lot.

Also, Nazism was not a religion. They actually rejected "God". And they were bloody good at making things as well as destroying them.

NB: Did you read Al Sisis speech?

No. Link it I'll have a butchers.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

But in general I am with Jimixo. Just the PLO, ETA, etc attacks/hijackings are way too fresh in my mnds of my youth.

Same time thing with the Rome and Vienna airport attacks and much more.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

'I disagree Islamic faith is NOT new to europe erho moors, Ottoman they have been among us for over 2 millennia.'

I didn't say it was new to Europe. I said Islam is the most menacing faith in Europe at this moment in time. Europe has been fighting bloody battles for centuries over divisive and dangerous ideas like religion and nationalism but has tamed them to a reasonably civilised level. It is tragic to see this shattered and religion wreaking violence again in civilised, secular, 21st century Europe.

I'm not convinced about the idea of 'twisting' faiths. Injunctions to commit revolting acts are often set down as clear as day on the pages of holy scriptures.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Jimizo. Read my post about the European problem on the S.Korea threat.

A disgruntled populace is easily swayed by the spin doctors.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Madverts:

" But the issue certainly is "them". They are a disaffected large minority and in some ways have legitimate grievances against the way the state has blissfully denied the slow rot in les banlieues. "

You try the old apologist meme to explain islamist radicalism as an economic issue, but it is not. This is what I mean by refusing to address the issue. Thanks for the demonstration. Did you read Al Sisis speech? Don´t you think the muslim president of muslim country knows a tad about the issue?

" The Allies interned just about everyone. "

The Allies interviewed just about everyone, but they did not "intern" millions of people. And hard-core Nazis were banned from occupation where they had power over society. Which is exactly what we should do with islamist hate preachers. Do you think the Allies were wrong? Do think de-nazification was a mistake?

" I'm glad you said this because I think this is the kind of strategy you yourself would support for Muslims but dare not actually come out with it. " Yes, I do support addressing the ideology. Which is what Al Sisi said too. What is your problem with that?

" Also, Nazism was not a religion. " And political islam is not religion either, at least not in the way we understand religion (a purely personal belief system). It comes with laws and political demands, and demands them to be superior to the secular lat. And that is the issue. Thanks for finally getting there!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Like I said the issue is more us than them.

Few countries like my own tried to integrate them by building mosques with them, etc.

But a vast majority rejected them add in the ME and North African conflicts understandable the backlash which also happened with Kosovo.

Now to find a way to move forward together and it will take a huge effort from all sides.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

they have been among us for over 2 millennia.

Petty point, but Islam was founded in the 600's.

Also, Nazism was not a religion True, but their cultural extremists were as evil as the Russian Communist extremists as were the Mao-led Chinese cultural extremists as the Catholic Crusaders or the Jihadists of today. Extremists of any sort are the scourge of the planet, particularly when they're being manipulated by a power wanting control of resources.

People who aren't familiar with Islam should try to understand the Islamic sense of 'umaah', the people. There are 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet, 20% of the world's population, and devout Muslims see themselves as belonging to the umaah, not to the country they live in, making full integration possible only for the secular Muslims, who tend to remain aloof and remove themselves from religious issues.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I think the Nazi's have sod all to do with what we are talking about.

I asked you what you would honestly do and so far you've given me nothing. Zilch. Zip.

Well, apart from skirt around your real position which is interning 6 million Muslims?

Would a religious war give you some perverse pleasure in your pursuit to criticize Muslims?

Like I said, without any serious, humane suggestion of what to do about the problem means that you yourself are part of that problem. Hate creates more hate and so-forth. Discourse about how bad a religion Islam is will not change the fact that they make up a tenth of the population and I'm willing to bet all these cowardly bastards were home-grown.

Sorry Willi but this epic fail right here for you. It's like the Republicans opposing everything Obama does with out one single idea or plan of their own. It's why you can't be taken seriously. From my experience here I know the French police are now going to crack skulls and make things worse to appear to be doing something. And I know that Marine Le Pen will probably get elected on the back of this massacre.

So be careful what you wish for.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

@It'S ME

I don't doubt there are those who try to brainwash people. I'm just pointing out that it isn't too difficult for people to convince others their faith preaches violent action when it's written as clear as day many times on many pages of the holy book. It's a little more difficult to convince people the literature of Jainism contains injunctions to massacre people who disagree with you.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Jimizo.

Read the full abrahamic Sctiptures on which the Jewish, Christian and Islamic faith are based.

Same God is worshipped and he is NOT gentle or forgiving. So he might be called Allah, Jehovah or Christ still the same got/entity.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

The ISIS cancer is spreading undoubtedly. They came in as disguised immigrants. This is not home grown. Crazy dogmatic religious freaks are to blame. France is also going to Syria next week to fight so what do we expect.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Madverts:

" I think the Nazi's have sod all to do with what we are talking about. I asked you what you would honestly do and so far you've given me nothing. Zilch. Zip. Well, apart from skirt around your real position which is interning 6 million Muslims? "

Tried to read before commenting. I did say we have to address the ideology, just like we addressed the ideology of Nazism, so yes this absolutely relevant to the issue. (Not even mentioning that there are cross-connections between the two, read up on Amin Al Husseini...) And I said nothing about "interning 6 million muslims", stop making things up.

Did you read Al Sisis speech?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Readers, the Nazis are not relevant to this discussion.

I'm English and really worry about my family living in England. I've always believed that Enoch Powells "rivers of blood speech" could very well become a reality in the UK and Europe too but most people dismissed him as a lunatic and racist! But as time goes by I've noticed more and more anti-islam fulled comments on Japan today, but If we left comments such as my own and many of the abovecomments just a few months ago we'd be labelled as mad and racist too! All those leftwing people and politicians out there have aloud this problem in Europe to grow at an alarming pace due to them being too scared of being labelled racists if they say anything which slightly opposes Islam or just because they are too scared and stubborn to admit the truth to themselves because they can't believe that this is actually happening but deep down they know it is.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

just live your life, be yoursel and good neighbours.

From someone that lived in hostile neighbourhoods, etc.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Now that Japan (Abe) has decided to follow in the footsteps of assisting US and other western powers by making changes in the constitution Japan can be sure that enemies will come to its shores someday. Japan will no longer be safe either.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

What I find disturbing with Islam is the percentage of them who emigrated support sharia law! Also I recal after 9/11 how many camera views in Islamic nations who were celebrating. No doubt an unknown percentage are celebrating today and I hope it is less since 9/11.

The global intelligence community needs to come together and halt ISIS and others from ever committing such a brutal attack of humanity.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

So only islamists who agree to with your views should emigrate?

Kinda selfish and elitist, IMHO.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

No if you emigrate from a nation who supports sharia law you don't take it with you to a host nation which does not support sharia law. Europe is no place for sharia law! Not selfish at all.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Also I recal after 9/11 how many camera views in Islamic nations who were celebrating.

Yes, I remember those images of Palestinians celebrating after 9/11... which turned out to be older footage of them celebrating something completely unrelated, such as a sports victory. So I wouldn't be surprised if similar footage will appear with commentators saying they're celebrating this latest attack. People should ask themselves who and why some would want to deceive the public in this way, and frame the Muslims.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

@MarkG I can't understand why people have thumbed down your comment mate! After 9/11 I watched the news in my home city of Manchester and it showed thousands of Muslims who live in Manchester paving the streets in celebration! All cheering and laughing! And then it showed the same in many other areas across the UK! Why on earth have people thumbed down your comment! Beggars belief!

4 ( +8 / -4 )

After 9/11 I watched the news in my home city of Manchester and it showed thousands of Muslims who live in Manchester paving the streets in celebration!

I wonder if that's true. What I do remember, and I'm sure the videos are still out there, was immediately after 9/11, Arafat offering his condolences and condemning the attacks; and we also saw Netanyahu saying the attack was very good for Israel.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Merkel is to blame for this. She's responsible for the "welcome culture". Everyone who died in France that day, died because of Merkel's "we can do it" mentality. Let this be a reminder that the "tolerance" of the west is to blame for this.

When this happens in Germany, she will be officially a traitor to her own people.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

No, Rick Shinjujuku - you're wrong. What you saw on TV was actually old footage of Muslims coming out in happy celebration of the 1952 World Cup. Right, Doo-Bop?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@ohara No, because I actually drove through an area in Manchester called Rusholme to see it with my own eyes, and surely enough it was true! And I was utterly disgusted! Btw, I'm not so stupid, I can easily recognise the difference in footage from 1952 Manchester and 9/11 Manchester from things like fashion, architecture, etc

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@ohara gomen oharasan! I just realised after I posted my last message that you were being sarcastic to Doo-Bop, but I know there's people on here that would actually believe your post! so I automatically thought you were one of them lol gomenasai -_^

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Furan right on.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Btw, I'm not so stupid, I can easily recognise the difference in footage from 1952 Manchester and 9/11 Manchester from things like fashion, architecture, etc

Rick, I think ohara was being sarcastic, making fun of the apologist Doo-Bop.

The interesting thing about Doo-Bop is that he increasingly represents the default Muslim view from my personal experience. The attacks are always explicable with the use of some whataboutery, usually involving Palestine or some other part off the world that they have no direct connection with. However, a connection is perceived through the binding power of Islam and a shared sense of victimhood.

With this as the default view, it is hardly surprising that terrorists are able to flourish in these communities and school girls run of to join ISIS.

I also know Rusholme very well - I lived there for three years. Manchester's own little Pakistan.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Reading the comments on this page, seeing the fear mongering and anti-islam hatred,

Apparently, you didn't witness or realized what just happened earlier. I think everyone has a right to hate the perpetrators and the radical jihadist that did this happen inexcusable act.

just shows the terrorists have won again.

158 dead and over 200 injured, so what would you call that? Who is installing fear in whom?

For them a the killings are a means to an end, the true goal is to increase hatred, so as to force a war between Islam and the West.

Which is underway. 2 weeks ago, a Russian plane blew up in the sky, isolated incident, absolutely NOT!

Now more Westerners will kill more Muslims, causing more Muslims to become extremists, so that they support the terrorists.

Just target the perpetrators that are responsible for this, that's all. By the way, where are the moderate Muslims, why are we not hearing them more on condemning this heinous act?

Blood begets blood, killing begets killing, hatred begets hatred. It's only until someone takes the higher ground and doesn't react in anger and hatred, that the cycle can stop.

That'll never happen, doesn't matter what we do in the West, the radical Islamists want us to summit to Sharia or die, France didn't want to get involved in any conflict and guess what, they are now pulled in and this won't stop and anyone that thinks walking away, the jihadist will take a hint is completely delusional. They will never stop and we need to do anything and everything possible so that this kind of horrific tragedy doesn't happen again or at least minimize the threat considerably.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

@doo bop: Oh, I don't think Islam was behind the Madrid and London attacks. That is why I am very hesitant to implicate Muslims in this latest Paris attack, just because someone is alleged to have said Allahu Akbar.

Wow. The above statement has taken "denial" to an entire new level.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Would there be as much coverage by the world press if this had taken place in Baghdad or Islamabad?

Western leaders and the world media tend to blow off horrific events like this in the Islamic world while going crazy about it in the West. Gotta ask yourself if you think the Islamic world resents this a bit? As if their lives matter less?

Perhaps if Western leaders and world media cared as much for the lives of Middle Easterners as their own, maybe people in that part of the world wouldn't be open to Jihadist propaganda.

Was not at this web site back then, but there was a shopping mall in the capital of Nigeria in 2013 that was attacked by Islamist terrorists where at least 67 were killed and scores of others injured. How much time did the world media machine devote to it? A scant fraction of what we are about to expect with what just happened in Paris. Where was the hue and cry from Western leaders and the Western media to incite Islamophobia in the Nigeria incident as they're starting to with this one in France?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

if anyone thinks that leaving the ME will minimize these attacks is (sic) NOT dealing with a full deck

keep kicking that hornet's nest

and now it's all coming to fruition

The rapture? Is that what's behind the feverish posts?

France didn't want to get involved in any conflict and guess what, they are now pulled in

Damn! The Pulitzer slips further and further away: apart from Hollande playing Globoflic in Africa, French jets started bombing ISIS in Iraq 14 months ago, and in Syria last month.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I am surprised that the French anti terrorist security agencies did not pick up any traces that something was going to happen in Paris. This was a massacre of innocent people by cowards. I think everyone needs to be observant of the activities of people from that religion who dealt yet another blow to western society and report anything that seems unusual to the proper authorities.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

"I'm English and really worry about my family living in England. I've always believed that Enoch Powells "rivers of blood speech" could very well become a reality in the UK and Europe too but most people dismissed him as a lunatic and racist!"

If you'd bothered to read a transcript of Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech you'd know it was based on race rather than religion. Also, Powell wasn't dismissed as a lunatic or a racist by the public. He was one of the most popular politicians in the country at the time after Heath sacked him. Powell was also making a play for the Tory leadership. Thankfully, modern Britain generally wouldn't accept the racist nastiness Powell was spouting apart from some Daily Mail/Express readers or UKIP idiots.

Don't try to put Powell's racism alongside a rejection of fundamentalist religion.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Furan:

" This is what you get when you bring the enemy to your doorstep. "

In this vein, isn´t interesting that they found a Syrian passport on one of the dead terrorists. I wonder Angela Merkel says about that... not. Also, German news report that they found another Syrian refugee driving a car chock-full of explosives and guns.... with Paris entered in the navi.

European politicians made their bed, now they sleep in it.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Before anyone goes out trying to defend these ISIS idiots... do you know what they want? Read this: https://www.quora.com/What-is-ISIS-and-what-they-want Its not like they'll be happy with a nice little nation of their own. Their goals are quite lofty and ultimately include the destruction of Christianity. And... and... in addition they plan to kill every Non-Muslim in the world. So if you're not (Sunni) Muslim that means you too. So if you think its because France is an ally to the USA that they were targeted, your simplistic view and mind is sadly mistaken. Now if you feel the world is vastly overpopulated you might convert to Sunni Muslim.... join them and become a mass murderer.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

. Their goals are quite lofty and ultimately include the destruction of Christianity. And... and... in addition they plan to kill every Non-Muslim in the world. So if you're not (Sunni) Muslim that means you too. So if you think its because France is an ally to the USA that they were targeted, your simplistic view and mind is sadly mistaken. Now if you feel the world is vastly overpopulated you might convert to Sunni Muslim.... join them and become a mass murderer.

This is the point a lot of people miss or ignore. Its not about Syria, or Israel or etc etc. A "political solution" in the middle east is not going to make any difference at all. Islam is in deadly opposition to everyone it considers non-muslim whether they follow a different religion or are atheists. Its in the koran and the hadith. Muhammad killed people with sword in hand (lots of them). And he had a lot of others killed. He and his followers were ISIS on horseback.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

My God is Jehovah. According to the false prophet muhammad, his god is allah. And if eliminating a billion potential enemies means they have "already won", then I say let them "win".And quit blaming the failed ME policy on Bush. Look no further than 1600 Pennsylvania Ave for accomplices.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Their goals are quite lofty and ultimately include the destruction of Christianity. And... and... in addition they plan to kill every Non-Muslim in the world.

That's interesting. Makes you wonder why they put so much energy fighting Syrians and Iraqis. And makes you wonder why Syria, Iraq, Hezbollah, Iran, and Russia seem to be the only ones to seriously fight them. Odd, that!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Sorry Willi but this epic fail right here for you. It's like the Republicans opposing everything Obama does with out one single idea or plan of their own.

Excuse me Madverts but Obama thinks ISIS is the "jayvee" team. Yesterday morning, just hour before the latest ISIS terrorists operation in Paris, he made the idiotic statement that ISIS is "contained". No one believes that yet there he was on national television making a fool of himself. It's no wonder Republicans oppose him so much - his worldview is based not on the real world but solely on his Leftist ideology. His foreign policy has been an epic fail! He has cemented his status as worst president in American history.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@Jimizo

Most if not nearly all religions have been guilty of bigotry, violence and murder to different degrees. Oh, and not just the >Abrahamic faiths.

While I largely agree with the crux of your argument that all religions and ideologies have blood on their hands.....I suspect if we look at the past 3 millennia of recorded history, the overwhelming balance of religious violence would be tallied under the "Abrahamic faith" column. Monotheism is a fundamentally un-sound basis for tolerance of other people and their viewpoints.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The attacks had “nothing to do with religion,” a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee just told CNN. Are we supposed to laugh or cry at this? How clueless are our authorities?!?. I have some good well-researched books for this moron to read.

"I am surprised that the French anti terrorist security agencies did not pick up any traces that something was going to happen in Paris".

I am not surprised. Same with Charlie Hebdo killers. Thousands of Jihadis live in France with French passports.Western Europeans governments simply don't have the resources , unless they are willing to become an East German style police state.

Kudos to Hungary, which developed security risk assessments in line with reality at the outset. Our leaders were too stupid or arrogant to do the same.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Jimizo Ofcourse I know Powell was referring to race, but from what I've seen in my 35 years on this planet is that about 99.9% of Islamic terrorists in Europe are a different race to us whites, unless I'm colour blind Ofcourse.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Those European politicians that allowed unfettered immigration from Islamic countries are now reaping what they sow.

They have done the indigenous populations of Europe a terrible disservice.

Indigenous Europeans need to wake up to the demographic disaster that is staring them in the face and have more babies. Promote family life more and emphasise things like gay rights less.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

a different race to us whites

we are a big fan of Powell, aren't we?

unless I'm colour blind

no risk of that

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Who is ISIS, al Qaeda in Iraq. Did it exist before bush invaded Iraq? No. Bush created ISIS by invading Iraq, destroying a country and creating the conditions for ISIS to form there. All of us smart folks knew the invasion was a disaster, now maybe even you right wing types who cheered on the invasion have learned how terrible that decision was for us and for France now as well (France knew it was stupid then). It all stems back to the stupid invasion and millions knew was wrong but millions unfortunately did not. Any who voted for bush should just shut up as you were totally wrong. This is called blow back and the longer the west screws around in the ME it will just continue. That is what ISIS wants, that is what OBL wanted too, and the dumb bush neocon crew fell right into the trap. This has nothing to do with immigration, that is just crazy right wing lies to cover for their racism.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Who is ISIS, al Qaeda in Iraq. Did it exist before bush invaded Iraq? No. Bush created ISIS by invading Iraq, destroying a country and creating the conditions for ISIS to form there.

If you really want to go back, then you have to blame Clinton who chickened out of offing OBL in 1998, but if you seriously and honestly want to blame the real culprits for the ultimate creation of radical Islam, then you need to blame the Brits and the French for creating the Sykes/Picot agreement. Putting all partisanship aside.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

If you really want to go back, then you have to blame Clinton who chickened out of offing OBL in 1998

You have to go back to Clinton to make unrelated comparisons? Why? You can make unrelated comparisons at any time.

In case you never heard it in the bubble, OBL had nothing to do with Iraq or Saddam Hussein. Those were all lies made up by Bush, Rumsfeld and crew. Iraq wasn't harboring terrorists before the invasion, but it most definitely is now.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

OBL had nothing to do with Iraq or Saddam Hussein

Doesn't matter. When the Twin Towers collapsed, Saddam & his people (Palestinians too) took to streets to cheer and celebrate.

Those were all lies made up by Bush, Rumsfeld and crew.

Doesn't matter. After 9/11 Americans were willing to go to war.

At least 120 killed in six Paris terror attacks

Now the French are willing to go to war. These wars just sells themselves though. No need to lie anymore.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

"then you need to blame the Brits and the French for creating the Sykes/Picot agreement."

Wrong again. Blame the Ottomans and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in WW1. The Muslim Ottomans had instigated a number of genocides in their territories, and the Europeans had to go in to help their Arab allies with their anti-Ottoman rebellion so that the Arabs wouldn't be the next genocide victims. Think Lawrence of Arabia. It would have work a lot better, if the bigoted imams in the mountains had issued a fatwa against their European protectors, whom they merely saw as infidels.

Mind you, the Jordanians were more peaceful and pragmatic, and now that country, an "artificial" creation of the British, is one of the few shining stars of the Arab world.

After the the dust of the dead Ottoman empire settled, the Europeans were more than happy to get out. And they should have stayed out, in my opinion, since their presence during this short period has created this utterly false narrative the West is to blame.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Doesn't matter. When the Twin Towers collapsed, Saddam & his people (Palestinians too) took to streets to cheer and celebrate.

If dislike of the US was enough to kill people, you'd have to kill off a significant portion of the world, and not just Muslims. The above comment is just ridiculous, and that's if it is even true.

After 9/11 Americans were willing to go to war.

Yep, and that directly led to what we are seeing now. It destabilized the middle east, and created a haven for terrorists - the very terrorists who just attacked France (the irony being that France didn't even support the US in their invasion of Iraq). If the West was smart enough to learn from our mistakes, we would see that panicked, hysterical responses to terrorist attacks only leads to more terrorist attacks.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

'@Jimizo Ofcourse I know Powell was referring to race, but from what I've seen in my 35 years on this planet is that about 99.9% of Islamic terrorists in Europe are a different race to us whites, unless I'm colour blind'

'Us whites' isn't the way I look at my friends in the UK whose parents came from other countries. Keep the focus on those who espouse vicious religious fundamentalism rather than skin colour. 'Us whites' stinks of BNP idiots, The Daily Mail and brain dead kippers.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

You have to go back to Clinton to make unrelated comparisons? Why?

Wait a minute. Clinton said, he wanted to kill OBL, but he didn't. He admitted that. That means, had Clinton followed through with killing OBL, 911 most likely wouldn't have happened. Therefore, one must conclude beyond a shadow of a doubt, the blame can most definitely be parked on the lap of Bill Clinton.

You can make unrelated comparisons at any time.

Just throwing the truth out there. Save the hate.

In case you never heard it in the bubble,

The liberal bubble, I don't reside in, but please continue.....

OBL had nothing to do with Iraq or Saddam Hussein. Those were all lies made up by Bush, Rumsfeld and crew. Iraq wasn't harboring terrorists before the invasion, but it most definitely is now.

Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney are long gone, long retired. So who has been the president for the last 7 years? And in the 7 years, what has Obama done to combat ISIS?

Crickets. Oh....look what happened in France the other day, Obama has some explaining to do.

Wrong again. Blame the Ottomans and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in WW1. The Muslim Ottomans had instigated a number of genocides in their territories, and the Europeans had to go in to help their Arab allies with their anti-Ottoman rebellion so that the Arabs wouldn't be the next genocide victims. Think Lawrence of Arabia. It would have work a lot better, if the bigoted imams in the mountains had issued a fatwa against their European protectors, whom they merely saw as infidels.

Ok, so we shall blame the Ottomans. Now that means, it all started with them! Scoundrels!!!

The above comment is just ridiculous, and that's if it is even true.

It's true, there is enough video all over the net and I watched it live as the Palestinians were dancing in the streets and other Arab nations.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

dislike of the US was enough to kill people, you'd have to kill off a significant portion of the world

Like Bass says, Haters gona hate. That's fine, they can hate us all they want. But once they fly commercial airliners into our skyscrapers, they better expect a reaction.

I hope the French retaliate & retaliate big time.

It destabilized the middle east, and created a haven for terrorists - the very terrorists who just attacked France

Obama should not have pulled out when he took office then. He shouldn't have let the Russians take away the initiative.

And all this comforting / condolence talk he's giving the French is just more mubo jumbo. Deep down inside, he doesn't give a crap. This is why he's allowing syrian refugees into the US. Its nonsene.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Japan is lucky country because Islamic terrorists can't just walk in and do bad things but in Europe Jihadists walk all the way from Greece to Paris and commit despicable crimes.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

once they fly commercial airliners into our skyscrapers, they better expect a reaction.

You don't seem to realize that the twin towers were their reaction to atrocities committed in the Middle East against their people. So they attacked America. Then America reacted and attacked Iraq. That led to the destabilization of the region which has led to more attacks against the west. A never ending cycle of violence and hatred where both sides blame the other and don't realize they are just as much at fault themselves.

I hope the French retaliate & retaliate big time.

They probably will. Which will lead to more violence against the west. Which will lead to more violence against the Middle East. Which will lead to more violence against the west. And on and on ad infinitum.

Obama should not have pulled out when he took office then.

He should have pulled out altogether - the way Bush set it up before leaving office. And he never should have gone back in to fight ISIS, dragging the French into the cesspit with the Americans. Those actions are what led to this terrorist attack.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

You don't seem to realize that the twin towers were their reaction to atrocities committed in the Middle East against their people. So they attacked America. Then America reacted and attacked Iraq. That led to the destabilization of the region which has led to more attacks against the west. A never ending cycle of violence and hatred where both sides blame the other and don't realize they are just as much at fault themselves.

Well, we did it Obama's way and it just made things worse, look what happened yesterday as a result of Obama's foreign policy of leading from behind.

They probably will. Which will lead to more violence against the west. Which will lead to more violence against the Middle East. Which will lead to more violence against the west. And on and on ad infinitum.

Perhaps or until there are No radical ISIS Islamists left.

He should have pulled out altogether - the way Bush set it up before leaving office.

And Obama should have stayed in and snuffed out ISIS while he had the chance and perfect opportunity.

And he never should have gone back in to fight ISIS, dragging the French into the cesspit with the Americans. Those actions are what led to this terrorist attack.

Hogwash.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Since Muslims believe that their Muslim countries should be only for Muslims and Jews believe that Israel should be strictly a Jewish state than send everyone from this countries back there. They can enjoy their purity and rest of the world can enjoy its own purity. If Europe and America want the cheep labor there are millions of civilized candidates from Latin and east Asian countries available.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Their goals are quite lofty and ultimately include the destruction of Christianity. And... and... in addition they plan to kill every Non-Muslim in the world.

That's interesting. Makes you wonder why they put so much energy fighting Syrians and Iraqis. And makes you wonder why Syria, Iraq, Hezbollah, Iran, and Russia seem to be the only ones to seriously fight them. Odd, that!

Well you see Doo-Bop, its because ISIS considers Syria, Iraq, and Iran to be governed and populated largely by "apostates". The shiites and other muslim minorities are Enemy number 1 for ISIS. They want to slaughter all of them. Hezbollah is shiite and allied to Iran. It is complicated but the bottom line is there is never going to be a solution with ISIS. They hate (and intend to kill) everyone that doesn't fit into their narrow little islamic view. Russia knows this. Btw, ISIS has lots of sympathisers and admirers among the "immigrants" flooding Europe. Stay tuned for further bloodbaths.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Those were all lies made up by Bush, Rumsfeld and crew.

Doesn't matter. After 9/11 Americans were willing to go to war.

We didn't know you were a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, WC.

once they fly commercial airliners into our skyscrapers, they better expect a reaction.

Doesn't matter a damn that they were mostly Saudis (not one Iraqi), and Saddam Hussein hated Al Qaeda. Any they will do.  

0 ( +3 / -3 )

'Well, we did it Obama's way and it just made things worse, look what happened yesterday as a result of Obama's foreign policy'

Yesterday's attacks in Paris were a result of Obama's weakness? Were the 2004 Madrid and 2005 London bombings a result of Bush's strength? I'm just making sure there's no hypocrisy here.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

in Europe Jihadists walk all the way from Greece to Paris and commit despicable crimes.

Do you have a link for this fundraiser?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Jimizo:

" Yesterday's attacks in Paris were a result of Obama's weakness? Were the 2004 Madrid and 2005 London bombings a result of Bush's strength? I'm just making sure there's no hypocrisy here. "

Both Bush and Obama have demonstrated complete ignorance in regard to the islamic world. It is really disheartening to see American political fanatics to turn this into a party debate. As if one party was alternative to the other!

That said, it is Obamas illegal war in Libya and his stupid sanction against Assad in Syria which have directly created ISIS. (In Iraq alone, it could have been contained.)

So yes, Bush has his list of mistakes, the ISIS problem is directly owned by Obama. It takes party political tunnel vision to deny that.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

'Both Bush and Obama have demonstrated complete ignorance in regard to the islamic world. It is really disheartening to see American political fanatics to turn this into a party debate. As if one party was alternative to the other'

I agree. I advocate the west getting out and staying out of the Middle East completely.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@Jimizo So your too politically correct to admit that the Islamic terrorists are a different race to European white people? Some of the closest people to me in the world are a different race to me but there's no denying that 99.9% of terrorists in Europe are a different race to the natives, and that obviously has a connection with what Powell was saying. Only independent/The socialist/Tribune news reading, brain dead sardines wouldn't realise that.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Rick Shinjuku:

" So your too politically correct to admit that the Islamic terrorists are a different race to European white people? Some of the closest people to me in the world are a different race to me but there's no denying that 99.9% of terrorists in Europe are a different race to the natives "

Don´t know about Jimizu, but I certainly deny that. Islam is not a race. The Chechen jihadis in ISIS that Putin has in his cross-hairs are as lily-white as you are (I assume), and so are the Bosnian and Albanian ISIS members. Not to speak of all Western muslim converts, from Jihad Jane (google her) to the American Al Quaeda commander Adam Gadahn. Or the German self-declared "Caliph of Cologne" Metin Kaplan or the famous "Ayatollha" Paul-Gerhard Hübsch. And yes, the overwhelming number of current illegal immigrants are Arabs, but since when are Arabs a "race"?

It is really, really silly to try to turn this into a race issue. Just my 1 yen.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Rick Shinjuku

I took exception to your phrase 'Us whites'. I'm talking about people with vicious religious ideas and I'm not concerned about their 'race'. This is the kind of ignorant stupidity which sees decent peope called terrorists ( some Muslim some not ) because of their skin colour. I'm sure you're aware of ignorant scum calling Indian Hindus Islamic terrorists and telling them to eff off back to Pakistan.

Let's focus on what people believe rather than what colour they are. If people start talking about Sharia for the UK, teach junk-science in schools or incite or carry out violence, I'll be the first to shout it down.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Those actions are what led to this terrorist attack.

Negative. Terrorist tried to blow up the World Trade Center from the basement with explosives. This was in '93 (way before). Islamic Extremist (a term Obama himself refuses to recognize) have been targeting America since the USMC Beirut bombings. Or since the '79 US Embassy invasion by iran.

@strangerland. The French are one of Americas' oldest ally.

And he never should have gone back in to fight ISIS, dragging the French into the cesspit with the Americans.

The Islamic Extremists are the ones calling for more beheadings, war and bloodshed. Not America & France. Blood begets blood? The cesspit lies in those barren, savage controlled lands ISIS occupies. Not the West.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

See, every one of your points is about how it's them them them, and no taking any responsibility whatsoever for us us us. And if you were to go ask them whose fault it is, they would say 'them them them', without taking any responsibility for 'us us us'.

It's a never ending cycle until someone decides to let it end. Blood begets blood, violence begets violence, hatred begets hatred.

Get out of the Middle East altogether. Let them sort out their own problems.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Wc626:

" Islamic Extremist (a term Obama himself refuses to recognize) have been targeting America since the USMC Beirut bombings. Or since the '79 US Embassy invasion by iran. "

You seem to forget that that the first war that the US Navy fought was against the islamic extremists of the Barbary states in 1801, This conflict goes back way longer than any current event, and it is based in ideology. To claim that islamic extremism is recent phenomenon is simply ignorant.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@ Yeah, I know. When I was a very young Lance Corporal, my superiors carried the sword (part of the uniform) to commemorate that campaign - Barbary Pirates.

Tell me something I don't know.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

there's no denying that 99.9% of terrorists in Europe are a different race to the natives

Given that the equivalent of the population of London identified themselves as non-white in the 2011 UK census, how would you define 'native?'

In the same way as the neo-Nazis who have murdered over 100 people in Europe since 2000?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It is the extremists that is the problem not anybody else. Until the west realize this the problem will not be solved. Neither Bush nor Obama created the terrorists. Some people still live in lala land. There are bad guys on this planet and they are neither liberals nor conservatives.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@SenseNotSoCommon... I'm obviously talking about the UK as a whole, not 1 city. You need some common sense

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I'm obviously talking about the UK as a whole, not 1 city

Which is precisely what

Given that the equivalent of the population of London identified themselves as non-white in the 2011 UK census

refers to.

Anything else I can help you with, Richard?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

See, every one of your points is about how it's them them them, and no taking any responsibility whatsoever for us us us.

That would be to kill them all, that's the best solution to the problem of ISIS.

And if you were to go ask them whose fault it is, they would say 'them them them', without taking any responsibility for 'us us us'.

It's a never ending cycle until someone decides to let it end. Blood begets blood, violence begets violence, hatred begets hatred.

Get out of the Middle East altogether. Let them sort out their own problems.

If they could do it by themselves that would be a huge relief and blessing, but they can't and won't, so we need to do it for them!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Bass4funk:

" If they could do it by themselves that would be a huge relief and blessing, but they can't and won't, so we need to do it for them! "

So you have not noticed at all that the places which are messed up and crawling with Jihadis are precisely those where we intervened and brought them "democracy"? Seriously?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I wasn't talking about bringing them democracy. I was referring to eradicating them.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

You may as well talk about unicorns and tooth fairies, because they are more realistic than being able to eradicate terrorists. All it takes is for a new person to pick up the mantle, and we have new terrorists. Kill them all and you create enough anger that someone else is going to pick up that mantle.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Negative. Terrorist tried to blow up the World Trade Center from the basement with explosives. This was in '93 (way before). Islamic Extremist (a term Obama himself refuses to recognize) have been targeting America since the USMC Beirut bombings. Or since the '79 US Embassy invasion by iran.

Going back further to what Wc626 said earlier, what about the first World Trade Center bombing, the USS Cole and the Kenyan Embassy Bombing, during those times, there wasn't a US war or even a heavy presence in the MidEast. As for funding the Saudis, don't like it much, but without us, The Saud family would be slaughtered in a matter of days, not to mention if ISIS were to get Their hands on their oil, it would be beyond disastrous, they would hold the world hostage literally, not to mention have billions of $$$ to buy ANY weapon, even enough to have nukes built for them. And since the liberals are making it harder for us to use coal, use gas, drill for our own oil, we are really getting ourselves in a bad situation. You need to once and for all stomp these people out.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Going back further to what Wc626 said earlier, what about the first World Trade Center bombing, the USS Cole and the Kenyan Embassy Bombing, during those times, there wasn't a US war or even a heavy presence in the MidEast.

But there was a presence. Any presence gives the 'bad guys' a focus to point evil intentions at.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Bass4funk:

" I wasn't talking about bringing them democracy. I was referring to eradicating them. "

I don´t get it. You want to "eradicate" Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Tunesia, Syria and a couple of other countries? Seriously?

Strangerland:

"Kill them all and you create enough anger that someone else is going to pick up that mantle. "

Your ideas are a strange as Bass4funks. You seriously suggest that islamic jihadism is the result of simply "anger"? No ideology behind it at all? Have you ever done a reality check before posting these slogans?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I don´t get it. You want to "eradicate" Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Tunesia, Syria and a couple of other countries? Seriously?

No, I'm not talking about eradicating the countries! I'm talking about ISIS and the other radical Jihadists ONLY! Of you build a coalition, a real coalition of nations, of course it can be done, if it is properly planned, mapped out and executed with surgical precession, it can be done. You do methodically and calculative. If these cowards can coordinate an attack with a few guys and hold a city like Paris hostage, imagine if you have highly trained special ops from various countries working together to get the most valued targets.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

You seriously suggest that islamic jihadism is the result of simply "anger"?

Yes and no. Of course there will be fundamentalists no matter what. Look at the Westboro Baptist Church in the US, who are essentially fundamentalist Christians. Groups like this will always exist.

Now look at the increase of hatred in the US against Muslims after 9-11. Before 9-11 there were people who hated Muslims, but after there was much, much more hatred. Some Sikhs and Hindus were attacked and beat up in the streets for sharing a skin color. Now imagine if terrorist attacks by Muslims had continued regularly in the US after 9-11. Imagine if Muslims were flying fighter jets over the US and bombing hospitals and weddings, killing good Americans who had done nothing. And imagine if this kept happening year after year.

Now imagine if there were fundamentalist Christian groups saying 'lets kill all those brown people', and putting together attack plans on how to do it. Do you really think that these groups wouldn't swell in numbers? Of course they would, because people would be angry about their people getting killed, their country being bombed. And do you imagine that doing their fighting in the name of fundamentalist Christian groups, they wouldn't say things like 'you will die in the name of our lord' and stuff like this?

So no, I don't suggest that fundamental Islam is simply a result of anger, but I'm saying straight out that anger plays a roles in the increase in membership of these groups.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Now look at the increase of hatred in the US against Muslims after 9-11. Before 9-11 there were people who hated Muslims, but after there was much, much more hatred. Some Sikhs and Hindus were attacked and beat up in the streets for sharing a skin color. Now imagine if terrorist attacks by Muslims had continued regularly in the US after 9-11. Imagine if Muslims were flying fighter jets over the US and bombing hospitals and weddings, killing good Americans who had done nothing. And imagine if this kept happening year after year.

One problem with your argument...The West or Westerners or even Christians and Jews for that matter didn't wage a war on Islam or are the streets yelling "in the name of Jesus" let us kill EVERY non-believer and if they don't convert to Christianity, behead them, tax them, kill all the men and rape their women, that hasn't happened, but it's happening in the Muslim world. What about all the innocent Christians that were taken on the beach in Lybia a few months ago and were beheaded? They did nothing wrong, the Yazizdis did nothing wrong. They want to be far from any conflict and yet, they were being slaughtered.

Now imagine if there were fundamentalist Christian groups saying 'lets kill all those brown people', and putting together attack plans on how to do it. Do you really think that these groups wouldn't swell in numbers? Of course they would, because people would be angry about their people getting killed, their country being bombed. And do you imagine that doing their fighting in the name of fundamentalist Christian groups, they wouldn't say things like 'you will die in the name of our lord' and stuff like this?

I'm not buying that illogical argument. Also, Christianity teaches life is precious and in Islam, it's the exact opposite, so I doubt that most Westerners would desire a death wish in the name of religion.

@WilliB

Yes, I'm beyond angry, but it's not blind anger or even emotional, it's very focused and I'm saying, the world whatever happens here on out and whatever they decide and if they do make a coalition in the near future, they should never attack any country out of blind emotional rage, but with calm and exact planning. And NO, I'm not asking or wanting boots on the ground, not unless it's absolutely necessay, but I do want an increase of Special Ops to go in for sure.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

One problem with your argument...The West or Westerners or even Christians and Jews for that matter didn't wage a war on Islam or are the streets yelling "in the name of Jesus" let us kill EVERY non-believer and if they don't convert to Christianity, behead them, tax them, kill all the men and rape their women, that hasn't happened, but it's happening in the Muslim world.

Did you not read my argument? I described how the west would react the same way if it were on the receiving end of things the same way the middle east has been on the receiving end of attacks from the west. The west has never had any kind of invasion like this from the ME or from Muslims. We freak out over an occasional bombing. The ME gets bombed the the west every single day. America took out a hospital that had no militants in it recently. Weddings parties get bombed to hell periodically. Innocents are killed regularly.

I'm not buying that illogical argument. Also, Christianity teaches life is precious and in Islam, it's the exact opposite

Really? “Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32)

I doubt that most Westerners would desire a death wish in the name of religion.

You're kidding yourself if you think that thousands of American rednecks wouldn't march against Islam in the name of god if the Muslims were attacking the hell out of America.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@SenseNotSoCommon "In the same way the neo-nazis have murdered over 100 people in Europe since 2011"

Islamic terrorists have committed more murders than that within a few hours. There's no comparison as to which is a bigger and more deadly threat to everybody. Only people with no common sense wouldn't think so...

"Is there anything else I can help you with, Richard?"

Ohh thanks, I've got a sink full of dishes that needs doing! Can you get here for 6am tomorrow morning to get it sorted? You are so kind!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Richard, Richard,

There's no comparison as to which is a bigger and more deadly threat to everybody. Only people with no common sense wouldn't think so...

You're much too intelligent to read that I suggested neo-nazis were a bigger threat in 21C Europe than jihadis. I do trust that you wouldn't for a moment be defending them.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Strangerland:

" Really? “Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32) "

Ah, the classic Koran line always quoted by islamic apologists. Strangely, they always only quote the snippet you posted (and probably copied from a typical site...). They never quote the complete Sura. Because if they did, you would see that this is addressed not to muslims but to the "Children of Israel", aka the Jews. Fundamentally, it is a warning not to fight back against the muslims, or else.

What you have just demonstrated is that you have done no reading on your own, but simply repeat apologist polemic. I´d recommend to inform yourself better, to avoid such own-goals.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The Democratic party response comes from a different planet than Republican one. This planet—let’s call it “Earth”—is not just a dangerous place, it’s a complicated one.

Republicans like to talk big. Perhaps they should think big as well. Perhaps they should consider that the only way ISIS is going to be destroyed is with the help of all those other Muslims in the Middle East. And that means no trying to answer every challenge with bombs.

Furthermore, the Republican party must be destroyed.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

bass4funk:

" No, I'm not talking about eradicating the countries! I'm talking about ISIS and the other radical Jihadists ONLY! Of you build a coalition, a real coalition of nations, of course it can be done, if it is properly planned, mapped out and executed with surgical precession, it can be done. "

Sorry, but that is naive. This wishful approach has been tried before, and it has resulted in disasters every time. Do you want another failed country to babysit forever? ISIS is not alien to Eastern Iraq and Western Syria; they are a radical Sunni movement, supported by many Sunnis who live there. What you need is a local authoritarian regime which lives there, belongs to the scene, and keeps a lid on the Wahabis. And not another Afghanistan. Get real.

Black Sabbath:

" Republicans like to talk big. Perhaps they should think big as well. Perhaps they should consider that the only way ISIS is going to be destroyed is with the help of all those other Muslims in the Middle East. "

Which "muslims"? The ones who support ISIS, such as the Wahabi regimes of Saudi Arabia and Qatar? And, by the way, it was Obama who helped ISIS with his destruction of Libya and the sanctions against Assad. Try to look beyond your US party political tunnel vision.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

bass4funk:

" No, I'm not talking about eradicating the countries! I'm talking about ISIS and the other radical Jihadists ONLY! Of you build a coalition, a real coalition of nations, of course it can be done, if it is properly planned, mapped out and executed with surgical precession, it can be done. "

Sorry, but that is naive. This wishful approach has been tried before, and it has resulted in disasters every time. Do you want another failed country to babysit forever? ISIS is not alien to Eastern Iraq and Western Syria; they are a radical Sunni movement, supported by many Sunnis who live there. What you need is a local authoritarian regime which lives there, belongs to the scene, and keeps a lid on the Wahabis. And not another Afghanistan. Get real.

Black Sabbath:

" Republicans like to talk big. Perhaps they should think big as well. Perhaps they should consider that the only way ISIS is going to be destroyed is with the help of all those other Muslims in the Middle East. "

Which "muslims"? The ones who support ISIS, such as the Wahabi regimes of Saudi Arabia and Qatar? And, by the way, it was Obama who helped ISIS with his destruction of Libya and the sanctions against Assad. Try to look beyond your US party political tunnel vision.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Did you not read my argument? I described how the west would react the same way if it were on the receiving end of things the same way the middle east has been on the receiving end of attacks from the west. The west has never had any kind of invasion like this from the ME or from Muslims.

This is very true and at the same time, we NEVER had a president that is unwilling to engage the enemy or even call it radical Jihadism.

We freak out over an occasional bombing.

You call what happened in France this past year a bit of the "occasional freak out???" Seriously??!

The ME gets bombed the the west every single day.

That's the problem when you have a president that doesn't want to look weak to the world, but doesn't have a very clear and precise targeted daily strategy instead of planning, lessoning the Rules of Engagement, of course, you won't achieve anything.

America took out a hospital that had no militants in it recently. Weddings parties get bombed to hell periodically. Innocents are killed regularly.

Sad, I agree, but that is the face of war. These tragedies will sadly, mistakenly happen, especially if these facilities are in the areas where terrorists reside.

You're kidding yourself if you think that thousands of American rednecks wouldn't march against Islam in the name of god if the Muslims were attacking the hell out of America.

Has nothing to do with being a redneck or not, it has to do with being a victim or not, race has nothing to do with it and I know a lot of Americans, NON-White that would attack these guys in a minute and rightfully so.

Sorry, but that is naive. This wishful approach has been tried before, and it has resulted in disasters every time.

Please, don't give me that. Obama has completely lost control of this and it showed by his comments yesterday, won't acknowledge radical Jihadism for what it is, thinks the 10 little sorties might make some impact, it won't and has been totally a waste and ineffective. He is tap dancing around this issue and he is doing the obvious of kicking this can down the road and hoping that nothing will happen until next year, just hold out until he's out of office and let the next president deal with it. Again, he is being asked, begged and advised from top senior advisors here AND abroad and what does he do? Give excuses after excuses and gets annoyed when you question his beyond jaw-dropping bizarre decision.

Do you want another failed country to babysit forever?

Worked out well for Germany and South Korea and Japan. If that's what it takes.

ISIS is not alien to Eastern Iraq and Western Syria; they are a radical Sunni movement, supported by many Sunnis who live there. What you need is a local authoritarian regime which lives there, belongs to the scene, and keeps a lid on the Wahabis. And not another Afghanistan. Get real.

Get real? I think anyone that believes in capitulation is not dealing with reality. What you said made absolutely NO sense. How on Earth will they get a local authoritarian leader to rule and takeover that isn't a radical. From Gates to Panetta, all of them think the way this president is handling this crisis mind-blowing! Either way, this is not going to stop and increasingly, more and more countries are waking up and I pray that the leaders of the free world come together to figure a closely monitored and precise strategic way to target and neutralize these people. ISIS is getting stronger and we as a nation under Obama, the most powerful man on the planet is getting weaker, which ISIS loves and prays for!

The Democratic party response comes from a different planet than Republican one. This planet—let’s call it “Earth”—is not just a dangerous place, it’s a complicated one.

That liberals and Dems want to touch with a 10 ft. poll.

Republicans like to talk big.

And Dems don't talk at all. Oh, they do, but it's usually hollow talk.

Perhaps they should think big as well. Perhaps they should consider that the only way ISIS is going to be destroyed is with the help of all those other Muslims in the Middle East.

I keep forgetting, Democrats are the epitome of a true Homo Sapian Mortal, now let's deal with reality now. the Democrats strategy over the last 7 years has not only been a waste, but it's increased the recruits of ISIS. Democrats believe in offering unicorns and reefers to hopefully pacify the enemy.

And that means no trying to answer every challenge with bombs.

But talking BS from a podium defending a strategy that EVERYONE, including many Europeans think at this point and time is a complete joke.

Furthermore, the Republican party must be destroyed.

Right along with the Democrats, but they should take the lead.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

America took out a hospital that had no militants in it recently. Weddings parties get bombed to hell periodically. Innocents are killed regularly.

Sad, I agree, but that is the face of war. These tragedies will sadly, mistakenly happen, especially if these facilities are in the areas where terrorists reside.

Spare us the crocodile tears. It's only Collateral Damage, no-one important.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Nice try, but failed correlation analogy.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

"I am surprised that the French anti terrorist security agencies did not pick up any traces that something was going to happen in Paris".

I am not surprised. Same with Charlie Hebdo killers. Thousands of Jihadis live in France with French passports.Western Europeans governments simply don't have the resources , unless they are willing to become an East German style police state.

Kudos to Hungary, which developed security risk assessments in line with reality at the outset. Our leaders were too stupid or arrogant to do the same.

French intelligence is currently monitoring 11000 (yes, you read it right) radical islamists in France. They're already stretched beyond the limit but why not give them thousands more to monitor? Thanks, Merkel. As for Germany, I leave that to your imagination. Its truly game over.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

A refreshing perspective from (Australian) Channel 10's Waleed Aly:

“I am angry at these terrorists. I’m sickened by the violence and I’m crushed for the families that have been left behind. But you know what, I won’t be manipulated. We all need to come together.

“It’s exactly what Isil doesn’t want. So if you’re a member of parliament, or a has-been member of parliament preaching hate at a time when what we actually need is more love, you’re helping Isil.

“I’m pretty sure that right now, none of us wants to help these bastards.”

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

So Waleed Aly feeds us the usual Islamic apologist line at times like these. Suddenly, "Lets all love one another".

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

So Waleed Aly feeds us the usual Islamic apologist line at times like these

Way to ignore everything he said.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

So Waleed Aly feeds us the usual Islamic apologist line at times like these. Suddenly, "Lets all love one another"

Should we hate him for being a voice for tolerance? A role model in Islam? An author? A journalist and newspaper columnist? A radio and television presenter? A lawyer? For being an academic at Monash University's Global Terrorism Research Centre?

This isn't a movie, @ohara. Hasn't enough blood and treasure has been wasted already?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The point is easy. The real sources of terrorism have been the economic and strategic interests of the western elites that have ended up sowing violence and destabilizing the Middle East. The real solution for this problem, though some people don’t want to see it, is leave Middle East alone and control the migration. In deed it would be one million of times better for everyone that the West stop attacking Middle East than the West continue receiving refugees or continue giving “humanitarian help” in Middle East. But unfortunately the true is that it won’t happen because what is moving the western elites are the same interests that generated the wars in Middle East since the beginning, and for them the dead of innocent people is not a priority.

We would have the capacity to protect our own territories from Muslims if we stop pushing them to hate us to that extreme; something that we could do if we stop bombing them, stop making their lives miserable and stop intervening in their own problems. The only thing that we really need to do is protect is our own territories. But as I say before, due that the peace is not the objective of western leaders they won’t stop, but they will do all the possible to manipulate people to make them support their wars, and I can see here that they have done a good job in many of you.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

But it isnt a refreshing perspective. Its the usual sanctimoniousness that people like him wheel out in circumstances such as this. 'We need more love',' We all need to come together', yes yes very nice. And directed at societies whose tolerance levels are truly astounding.

Now, if he hopped a plane and went and preached it to ISIS - where it really needs to be heard - Id give him some points. But he isnt going to do that - we can all agree on that.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

ohara:

" So Waleed Aly feeds us the usual Islamic apologist line at times like these. Suddenly, "Lets all love one another". "

I don´t know the guy, but if is a typical islamopologist, he will soon try to turn the discussion around and start blaming the West. Along the lines of "yes, this terrible, but...." and after the "but" comes the usual litany of blaming Israel, blaming the US, blaming mistreatment of the poor muslim in the West, etc etc. We have seen that so many times, it is like a standard routine. The moment you hear the "but", you know what is coming. Does that fit him?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Willi, he looks to be of that ilk. I was able to find this after some quick research: he was spokesman for the Islamic Council of Victoria when it voted to make extremist Sheik Hilali the mufti of Australia.

And journalist Andrew Bolt commented on Aly's latest sanctimony, " Anything that suggests we can fight ISIS with a few hugs and hashtags, plus a bucket of sand in which to bury our heads, is just what they ( ISIS ) want to hear."

In fact I do believe that ISIS is counting on exactly this kneejerk response that western societys have been programming themselves with for decades, ie,' tolerance', peace, love denial of reality etc.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

ohara:

" In fact I do believe that ISIS is counting on exactly this kneejerk response that western societys have been programming themselves with for decades, ie,' tolerance', peace, love denial of reality etc. "

Yes. This was already addressed by Bin Ladin, who said: "When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature, they will like the strong horse." ISIS represents the strong horse, and touts its strength to gain followers. The meek Western PC response of endless appeasing and tolerating represents weakness, and that really does not fly in the islamic mindset.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Exactly. And when it comes to Islam Waleed Aly votes fotr the most radical leader on the ticket. When it comes to the west's response to ISIS barbarism its lets all come together in love.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

he was spokesman for the Islamic Council of Victoria when it voted to make extremist Sheik Hilali the mufti of Australia

Don't let facts get in the way of good gossip, ladies.

Hilali was appointed Mufti in either 1988 or '92, according to Wikipedia. As Waleed Aly was born in 1978, that would make him very precocious indeed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_El-Din_Hilaly

And journalist Andrew Bolt commented on Aly's latest sanctimony

Par for the course for this Newscorp hack, it seems. Readers can read about Bolt's background here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Bolt

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

well, which is it - 1988 or 1992? Your "facts" source seems somewhat unreliable, doesnt i?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

well, which is it - 1988 or 1992? Your "facts" source seems somewhat unreliable, doesnt i?

Oh dear. Is the questioner the same age Waleed Aly was in 1992?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

**Aly also assured 3AW the then Mufti of Australia, Sheik Taj el-Din el-Hilali, was not a worry even though he’d praised suicide bombers as “heroes” and called the September 11 attacks “God’s work against oppressors”.

Aly said he had no idea who had made Hilali mufti and he represented no one. In fact, Aly’s own Islamic Council of Victoria had voted with other members of the Federation of Islamic Councils of Australia for Hilali to represent their faith.**

Whoa, I encourage all to research Mr Aly. He's your prototypical apologist for Islam, and quite the dissembler. Hes also far too intelligent to have not been aware about his Islamic Coiuncil's support of radical Islamist Sheik Hilali.

I realize (and so does he) that he says things that many well-meaning western non-muslims desperately want to believe. Unfortunately, its just not true.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

bass4funk:

(about babysitting a country forever=

" Worked out well for Germany and South Korea and Japan. If that's what it takes. "

You are comparing Germany, South Korea, and Japan with Arab muslim tribal societies?? Seriously???

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"You are comparing Germany, South Korea, and Japan with Arab muslim tribal societies?? Seriously???" Besides in the case of Germany, South Korea, and Japan Western nations invested tons of money in develop these countries making them wealthy partners of West, it clearly lead to consume the hate generated in the beginning.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Miguel Lozano:

" Besides in the case of Germany, South Korea, and Japan Western nations invested tons of money in develop these countries making them wealthy partners of West, it clearly lead to consume the hate generated in the beginning. "

No. Money is not the issue. I am sure by now the West has sent more money down the drain of failed states in the Middle east than ever spent on Germany and Japan. The difference is that the virulent ideologies were addressed and dealt with. Instead of being ignored as "religions".

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@WilliB, The ideology is very important, but what Im talking about is that no matter the reason they ended up being weathy nations playing the western rules, and this fact makes a big difference combating any possible resentment.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Miguel Lozano:

" The ideology is very important, but what Im talking about is that no matter the reason they ended up being weathy nations playing the western rules, and this fact makes a big difference combating any possible resentment. "

1) If it is about "getting wealthy" by "playing by Western rules", then why does not everybody do that, and get wealthy?

2) If this is about "resentment" against "Western rules", then how do you explain that you have islamist terrorism in Thailand, China, the Philippines, Indonesia, Nigeria, Russia, India.... I could continue. All these countries are "wealthy" and got so by "playing by Western rules"?

Make a reality check please.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@WillIiB, well, I was talking about the context of the countries where ISIS is stronger; poverty and violence makes a fertile soil to make grow armed groups against whatever. Anyway, like I have said before the real interests behind the ISIS’s problem have not to do with western elite desire of peace, because it is the last of their priorities. What western leaders really want is to be them who put the rules in Middle East, but as they can’t say it openly, they have been doing campaigns to convince people that ISIS will destroy west if they don’t do something.

It is true that ISIS is out of control, but ISIS is fruit of western attempts to support rebel groups against local governments, and the main source of energy that is strengthening ISIS today is the continuous western interventions that are feeding Muslim’s hate and making them feel corral. Besides, something very important it’s that was the West who turned it into a cultural war, because even it’s not true that there is a real risk that West end up under sharia law, Western elites that want to control Middle East are attacking their culture and naturally it is creating hate toward west that increase the ISIS influence.

There is not solution to the problem because neither US and its allies, nor Russia, will give up to its interests in Middle East. And the problem is that big now that there is no way that peace come soon, but as I said before, if peace were what we are looking for instead of control, the policies respect Middle East would be entirely different.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Miguel L:

You just repeated your claim, but again, you did not answer the question:

If this is about "resentment" against the West, how do you explain that you have islamist terrorism in Thailand, China, the Philippines, Indonesia, Nigeria, Russia, India.... ?

Jihadist terrorism exists in countries where "the West" has not meddled (just yesterday Nigeria again got a dose of that), so how do you explain that?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@WilliB;

Well, you have a point; I think that what I said explain the origin and the most important part of the problem, but you are right about it doesn’t explain all. Excluding the nations that have participated in strike ISIS, I think the reason for what you say may not be complicated. Maybe it’s only that there are Muslim people around the word that is looking for an identity which they could be proud, Muslim people that feel alienated and discriminated in the countries where they live, Muslim people that could feel that the local laws go against their own ideals and culture, Muslim people that would like to live in country where the other people thought like them. If in this context show up ISIS it wouldn’t be strange that many of these people find in ISIS the answer for their own dissatisfactions.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Miguel Lozano:

" Well, you have a point; I think that what I said explain the origin and the most important part of the problem, but you are right about it doesn’t explain all. "

Not only do I have a point; my question defeats your whole argument, don´t you see that? If you claim A causes B and I show you that in fact B also exists where there is no A, you have to go back and think again.

And yes, this is an islamic issue, as you correctly see. And yes, so very softly and vaguely you admit that there is one common underlying cause: "Muslim people that could feel that the local laws go against their own ideals and culture" ---- well exactly.

What the islamists all over the world have in common is that they want to submit the world under Shariah. And terrorism is simply one of many ways to help achieve that goal. Now what is so hard about addressing this issue?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@WilliB

"If you claim A causes B and I show you that in fact B also exists where there is no A, you have to go back and think again" It means that you can’t say that A implies B, but it doesn't mean that it could not be the case that A makes much more probable B.

I forgot to say in my last comment that maybe other reason is the solidarity of ones Muslim with others Muslim that are being attacked.

“What the islamists all over the world have in common is that they want to submit the world under their Shariah. And terrorism is simply one of many ways to help achieve that goal. Now what is so hard about addressing this issue?” Certainly Muslim have not right to impose their Shariah in our countries, and must obey the local laws. But I think that it would be easier for them to accept it if there were peace in Middle East and territories where they could come to live under Sharia, or am I mistaken?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Miguel Lozano:

" Certainly Muslim have not right to impose their Shariah in our countries, and must obey the local laws. But I think that it would be easier for them to accept it if there were peace in Middle East and territories where they could come to live under Sharia, or am I mistaken? "

You are mistaken.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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