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Australia bushfires renew anger over climate change

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By Holly ROBERTSON

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What does Climate Change have do with these fires?

Unprecedented bushfires in eastern Australia

Fact there have been far worse bush fires as little as 10 yrs ago, where over one hundred people died

But the scale of the bushfire crisis has made it more difficult for Morrison to dismiss his political foes as out-of-touch lefty city slickers.

It was in fact those out of touch lefty city slickers that reduced the number of controlled "burn offs" that authorities used to do on a regular basis to reduce the "fuel" accumulating in these forests. It was the same city slickers that banned or reduced the amount of undergrowth clearing that property owners could do that has also helped these fires burn with such intensity.

The government's own Bureau of Meteorology has acknowledged human-caused climate change is "influencing the frequency and severity of dangerous bushfire conditions".

The same Bureau has been caught falsely manipulating data to push an agenda.

-2 ( +11 / -13 )

This is so ridiculous. Even if you accept the polemical premise that climate-change is all man-made, the idea that whatever Australia with its 11 million people does would have any impact at all makes no sense from any perspective.

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

^^^ What?? You're saying the worlds largest exporter of coal has no impact what-so-ever on climate change?

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Australian electricity is 62% generated from coal. It also exports huge quantities of coal some of it supplies Japan. Only 15% is from renewable same as Japan.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Australia is the world's third-largest exporter of CO2 in fossil fuels, report finds

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-08-19/australia-co2-exports-third-highest-worldwide/11420654

10 ( +13 / -3 )

human activity has practically zero impact climate change, in spite of what little pig-tailed heroines would have us believe.

It’s what the consensus of climate scientists would have us believe.

Hmm..., a choice between the political ideology of a notoriously uneducated faction of right wing ( most notably the US right ) who are like sheep on this topic, or climate scientists. I think I’ll go with the latter if it’s all the same.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Australia with its 11 million people

If you make a mistake as bad as that, it devalues everything else that you might say.

gary

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Australia with its 11 million people

For crying out loud, get the basic knowledge right before speaking out on a topic as difficult as climate change.

It’s a failure of education and god knows what nonsense people read.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

A group of ex-fire chiefs on Thursday warned climate change is "supercharging" the bushfire problem

Whenever things go beyond logical comprehension the naive always hit the climate change button.

Drought in Australia is cyclic and has been going on for millennia.

European settlement has seen many rivers diverted, huge swaths of forests leveled and flood plains drained.

European settlement has also stopped the regular burning by the indigenous Australians who mostly lived along the east coast where these fires have occurred. The regular burning stopped the build up of leaf littler fuel.

Ther Greens movement have banned controlled burning and the cutting of fire breaks contributing greatly to the severity and uncontrollably of the wild fires

In the last decade there has been four days of record breaking temps. However, the records were only broken by 1’ or less.

The droughts and extreme temps in the 1930’s and the 1950’s were much worse and lasted much longer.

but, it’s easier to blame climate change, right?

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

Jimizo,

Come off it, there are thousands of scientist who know the man made climate narrative is bs.

I’m going with the vast consensus of climate scientists.

You are going with an item of the right wing political hymn sheet.

Don’t let your politics debauch your brain.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

As many as needed solar powered desalination plants to create enormous man-made lakes would create a micro climate that would not be conducive to allowing brush fires to propagate. While climate change is real there is never any mention of the Sun being the hottest its been for the past 50 years, even during this latest solar minimum. The simplest solution would be to use less today so there is more for tomorrow.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I'll make my first comment a fact check on misleading posts on this topic

1/The "Greens ?environmentalists stopping hazard reduction is bulldust

"These are tired and old conspiracy theories that get a run after every major bush fire " {Professor Ross Bradstock, Director Centre for Environmental Risk Management , Uni of Wollongong, researching bushfires for 40 years.

2/ Greens don't make bushfire reduction policy, greens are not in power in any State or Federal Government. Bushfire /hazard reduction policy in NSW, for example, is determined by the Rural Fire Service . Similar agencies exist in other states.

3/ @4 former Fire and Emergency heads are calling the current conditions unprecedented and a result of drought being driven by climate change.

4/The current drought in Australia is the worse on record.

5/Population of Australia is around 22 million

6/The current Liberal/National Party coalition is strongly connected to mining oligarchs through patronage and donations.

7/The claim the Bureau of Meterology adjusted figures to push a claim is rubbish.

8/Aboriginal Australians lived all over the continent, not just the East Coast.

9/ The climate change denial lobby is strong in Australia and driven in Murdoch media by opinion writers who lack any tertiary education {Andrew Bolt...didn't complete a BA degree even }

10/ I'm an Aussie but boy, I am shocked by the level of smugness Aussies show , the denial of science and the "she'll be right mate attitude on this.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Climate change? This is from Yahoo7 news Australia.

"70 to 80 per cent of the country is experiencing above-average temperatures, and is being blamed on something called an extremely positive Indian Ocean Dipole.

Westerly winds weaken along the equator and push warm water to shift towards Africa during a typical IOD.

The wind changes allow cool water to rise from the depths of the ocean in the east, causing a temperature difference across the tropical Indian Ocean, with unusually cooler water in the east and warmer in the west."

@Zichi - Only 15% is from renewable same as Japan.

I'm afraid this is incorrect. Australia has one of the world's largest hydroelectric schemes that supplies a third of the electricity for south-east Australia (half of the population). Australia also has some of the largest solar power generating plants in the world. However, just the hydroelectric system debunks the 15% renewables statistic.

It is true that Australia is 'one of' the world's largest coal exporters, most of which is exported to China. It's is exported to China to supply electricity for all the manufacturers of the Chinese made goods you have in front of you, in your hand or are wearing. Before anybody goes pointing fingers at Australia for exporting coal, you should think about all the commodities you use every day that have been made with Australian coal supplying electricity. It is quite naive to think otherwise. I'll bet you are all wearing underwear made in China with electricity generated from Australian coal.

Oh, and the population of Australia is 26.5 million and growing.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Frankly it is too late. We will use easy to drill and mine fossil fuels until they are depleted then move on. The best we can do is mitigate the damage. Keep in mind China is increasing its output of CO2 and I doubt in India they will accept not having cars like the rest of us...

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"The whole east coast is on fire," said Julie Jones, who almost lost her house in the Blue Mountains. "I think it's climate change."

That could have something to do with it. But whether burning fossil fuels has anything to do with it is questionable.

Morrison has made no secret of his support for the country's lucrative mining industry, which accounts for more than 70 percent of exports and was worth a record Aus$264 billion ($180 billion) in the last financial year.

His government insists Australia will meet its Paris climate agreement target of reducing emissions by 26-28 percent on 2005 levels by 2030.

That's a tall order. Meanwhile China and India keep increasing CO2 output. Maybe Morrison should pull Australia out of the Paris agreement like Trump did for America, as it is unfair to Australia too.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Australian power generation

62% from black and brown coal. Australia mines and exports uranium but does not have any nuclear power plants.

21% from LNG

15% from renewables including hydro

https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/analysis.php?iso=AUS

2 ( +2 / -0 )

In the UK most days coal fired plants are not used for power generation or low levels. They have achieved renewable levels exceeding 25% with wind power providing the greatest.

https://gridwatch.co.uk

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Several years ago, I read a prediction that Australia would be the first continent "lost" to climate change. Subsequent events would seem to be reinforcing that assertion. Unfortunately, the citizens continue to vote for candidates who promote policies that pretty much assure environmental collapse. We here in the US have also voted for scientific illiterates. We have been heavily propagandized by the fossil fuel interests, and unfortunately, the whole world is starting to pay the price.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

While China has taken a lot of flack, and even India took a hit, its worth noting that the U.S. produces FAR more CO2 per person than any county on Earth and is second in the world overall. And the U.S. keeps backing out of environmental agreements and as far as I know is the leader in pretty much every other pollutant category. The rest of the world would probably do well to just stop dealing with either country until they shape up.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

That could have something to do with it. But whether burning fossil fuels has anything to do with it is questionable.

It isn’t. The science is settled. Human activity, especially the use of fossil fuels, is the cause of this rapid climate disaster. Only idiots think otherwise.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The level of death and destruction caused by climate change has reached the point where the fantatists like Morrison who deny the truth can no longer be dismissed as uninformed, misinformed, or politically driven.

The word for people willing to see people die, and vast areas destroyed, for their personal gain, is EVIL.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Australian coverage: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-14/former-fire-chief-calls-out-pm-over-refusal-of-meeting/11705330

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Human activity, especially the use of fossil fuels, is the cause of this rapid climate disaster. Only idiots think otherwise.

Actually that would be anyone declaring a single cause. You have overlooked the CO2 output of volcanoes plus the Solar minimums and maximums regarding solar activity...and probably several other things this fellow idiot still does not know about. We are all idiots frankly. But perhaps we are not all equal in our idiocy. Anyway, no one with any knowledge is blaming human activity alone.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Australia, big beef producer, may among other things, . . . .may wish to research the effects of livestock grazing . . . https://www.thewildlifenews.com/2015/08/21/grazing-leads-to-blazing/

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Cows are a big producer of methane at both ends. Experiment in Australia feeding garlic to the them greatly reduces the levels.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Australia Population (LIVE)

25,313,705

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/australia-population/

Australian politicians need to take action on climate change. Currently they do nothing but business as usual.

Morrison fiddles while Australia burns. Having happened before in another time in Rome, we know the outcome.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Bush fires - climate change... let’s blame plastic bags and China while we’re at it.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Experiment in Australia feeding garlic to the them greatly reduces the levels.

If it reduces their emissions of methane, where do the carbon molecules go? Honest question. Do they get fatter, or eat less, or burp more rather than fart more?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

knicknackn9kker:

^^^ What?? You're saying the worlds largest exporter of coal has no impact what-so-ever on climate change?

Interesting argument. So you want Australia's economy to collapse? Yes, I guess that would make make difference for Australia's CO2 emissions, but not for the world, as other suppliers would step in and meet demand. As you surely know, coal is used by most power plants and by all steel manufacturers.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@garymalmgrenNov. 14 04:27 pm JST

Australia with its 11 million people

If you make a mistake as bad as that, it devalues everything else that you might say.

Why? Am I off? OK, make 20 million. 100 million. 200 million. It STILL does not make a difference in a world where India and China have are rapidly moving from 3rd world to 1st world level consumption and where Africa's population is going to quadruple within the next few decades. Get some perspective.

This Western hubris where even small Western countries feel the righteous need to save the world is exactly what the Chinese mean when say talk about Bai Zaou.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Interesting argument. So you want Australia's economy to collapse? Yes, I guess that would make make difference for Australia's CO2 emissions, but not for the world, as other suppliers would step in and meet demand. As you surely know, coal is used by most power plants and by all steel manufacturers.

This is a blatant dodge. Let me try to put the question to you more simply. The following question requires a yes or no answer:

Does Australia as the world's largest exporter of coal have an impact on climate change?

When answering, remember we are not talking about the effects on Australia's economy if shutting down coal production or whether another country will step in and fill the void; we are talking about whether Australia has an impact on climate change as the world's largest coal exporter.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Since Trump came to office and contrary to his campaign claim for the miners, 50 coal fired plants have been shut down because other fuels became cheaper.

Coal and oil are the number two fossil fuel needed to stop using.

Australia has many natural resources such as LNG and renewables and salt generators that its use of coal can be replaced.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"In an effort to make the animal feed industry more environmentally friendly, researchers in Australia are experimenting with feeding cattle seaweed. While the study is still ongoing, they believe that eating seaweed may reduce methane production in cows by up to 99%."

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

If it reduces their emissions of methane, where do the carbon molecules go?

Well, it could be CO2 or it could be in the solids and liquids, as in feces and urine. But CO2 is preferable to methane regardless but I think the more likely answer is its in the feces....as in the carbon containing solids they ate came out as solids and were never broken down.

Cows are a big producer of methane at both ends.

This is as true as its not true. The only reason cows are producing so much methane is because they are being feed an unnatural diet of pure grain. Their stomachs are made to digest grass. Most of them are not being fed grass anymore.

Experiment in Australia feeding garlic to the them greatly reduces the levels.

More tinkering. The simple solution is to feed them grass.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Chip Star:

This is a blatant dodge. Let me try to put the question to you more simply. The following question requires a yes or no answer:

Does Australia as the world's largest exporter of coal have an impact on climate change?

I answered that: No it does not. Coal importers buy coal because they need it. If Australia drops out as a coal exporter, production elsewhere will increase. As I pointed out, the only result would be economic collapse in Australia and possibly rising prices elsewhere. None of which has an effect on the climate, even if you accept the "climate change is 100% man made" hoax.

Just where is the mental block here?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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