world

Australian officials move to block Black Lives Matter protest in Sydney due to COVID-19 threat

96 Comments
By Colin Packham and Byron Kaye

Australian authorities moved on Friday to scupper protests inspired by the death of black American man George Floyd, saying large gatherings risk new coronavirus infections and banning the biggest rally planned for Sydney.

Around 50,000 Australians had been expected at nationwide events on Saturday as anger over Floyd's death in Minneapolis - where a white policeman knelt on his neck - also focuses attention on mistreatment of indigenous Australians.

Health Minister Greg Hunt said people had the right to express themselves, but should the COVID-19 disease spread at protests, it would be impossible to trace all participants.

"Any mass gathering at this time is a lottery with peoples' lives," he told reporters in Melbourne.

Authorities in Australia's most populous state of New South Wales (NSW) secured a Supreme Court injunction to prevent the largest rally planned for Sydney.

Judge Desmond Fagan said a gathering of thousands was "an unreasonable proposition" given state directives for no more than 10 people to gather.

"It is self-evident that the social distancing measures ... have been the key element in minimizing the spread of this disease," he said, adding that the right to free expression was being "deferred" until a safer time.

Some protesters, however, said they would carry on.

"I never lose my decision to fight for what is true," rally organizer Raul Bassi said after the court decision.

Australia has avoided the high infections and casualties of other nations, with only 102 deaths, because of border closures and social distancing since March.

NSW police had originally approved the Sydney protest, on the understanding there would be fewer than 500 participants, but far more had been planning to attend.

"The New South Wales government would never, ever give the green light to thousands of people flagrantly disregarding the health orders," NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian told reporters.

In Victoria state, where gatherings of more than 20 people are banned, police threatened fines for protest organizers and people breaking social distancing rules. Queensland and Western Australia states also urged people not to attend rallies.

"Let's find a better way and another way to express these sentiments," urged Prime Minister Scott Morrison. "Let's exercise our liberties responsibly.

© Thomson Reuters 2020.

©2020 GPlusMedia Inc.

96 Comments

Comments have been disabled You can no longer respond to this thread.

Crazy move. I sympathise with the overall cause but not the timing. There's no particular case in Australia that necessitates this demo at this time - the case in NSW with the cop tackling the 16 year-old is hardly in the George Floyd league - and if there is a spike in infections that gets traced back to this, zero sympathy from the rest of the country.

13 ( +20 / -7 )

Australians are smart enough to not buy into nonsense. Apart from a few fringe groups. The march in Sydney organized by the Australian communist party. Says it all. Comrades, bugger off. We have just got the upper hand on the virus, it’s a no brainer.

14 ( +21 / -7 )

Really, really bad timing to joining protests at the moment. Just saw a meme that reads "Everyone: Soooo, we're not doing Covid19 anymore?"

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Having worked in many remote areas of Australia I can tell you that the police don't even both charging Aboriginals because they will only be let off they are treated very leniently. The root causes of most problems is alcohol. Sex abuse of children is a huge problem as is domestic violence.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

Dear Australians,

I'll stand with you so long as you stand 6'/2m apart.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Why should anyone join a protest about something that happened in a country 10,000 km away? Height of idiotic virtue signalling. Even without the looming virus panic. Oz has enough of its own problems to deal with already.

Plus the whole BLM movement was started based on a lie, that a young boy was murdered by the police. A thorough and unbiased investigation proved that the kid was trying to attack a police officer when he was shot. Hardly an innocent victim, unlike George Floyd.

9 ( +17 / -8 )

the whole BLM movement was started based on a lie, that a young boy was murdered by the police. A thorough and unbiased investigation proved that the kid was trying to attack a police officer when he was shot. 

So the rest of their concerns can be disregarded?

0 ( +11 / -11 )

Racism, even in Australia is ugly and hateful and must be changed.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

For the most part systemic racism doesn't exist in western countries.

12 ( +20 / -8 )

If anything positive that could come from the riots, it’s that COVID-19 is a farce, none of those rioters and looters practiced safe distancing and they’re all fine, so that’s the cure, let these people protest, they’ll all be fine our rioters and looters are.

-13 ( +7 / -20 )

Prior to May 26th, COVID19 dominated every second of the news and media was acting as though the entire planet was going to die from the virus. One day later, COVID19 is back page news and everyone be killed by the police. If you are black, the police will kill you twice. Maybe once all the civilians are murdered and all that remain are the police, we'll see the COVID19 news come back to the spotlight?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

At least it seems everyone is ok with Australia saying dont protest because of coronavirus.

A consistent message, unlike other places where COVID just disappeared to support protesting, but only for a specific politically tinged cause.

Stay home.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Apparently they aren't all fine Bass.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

none of those rioters and looters practiced safe distancing and they’re all fine

How do you know they're 'all fine'? It takes up to two weeks for symptoms to show.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

All lives matter. Stay safe. Stay home.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Aussies aren't as silly and irresponsible as Americans, the same failed state conditions won't occur anywhere in Australia. Keep American failures in America where they came from

9 ( +14 / -5 )

Are black Austrailians disproportionately victims of the coronavirus, too?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

If anything positive that could come from the riots, it’s that COVID-19 is a farce, none of those rioters and looters practiced safe distancing and they’re all fine, so that’s the cure, let these people protest, they’ll all be fine our rioters and looters are.

Give it a week or two.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The cost to contain the spread of Covid-19 in Australia is huge. We have our first recession in 29 years, unemployment is riding and it is predicted the worst is yet to come. It will take years or even longer to recover. Also we are not out of the woods yet. It is very disappointed that so many people are putting public health safety aside for their own political agenda.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

How do you know they're 'all fine'? It takes up to two weeks for symptoms to show

Yeah, I’m starting to believe this was way overhyped....

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Black lives matter but don't turn one thing into another by spreading the virus.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

This is why Australian police will again be equated with American police if they try and enforce this. From everything I have heard, Australia is hugely winning against Covid 19 and it is not yet winter in Australia. Let them protest or its fascism.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Socialist premier and pro-CCP lackey, premier of Victoria "Chairman" Dan Andrews said he wouldn't be attending he protests himself but supported them in principle. This is the same premier who had Australia's strictest lockdown where still only a handful of people are supposed to gather.

But I guess because he supports the far-left rabble rousers running this protest, they get a free pass.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Australia has a long and terrible history of racism including a time when children were removed from their families because they were indigenous natives.

Yeah, I’m starting to believe this was way overhyped.

How does that compare with 6,500,000 infected people, 400,000 deaths?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Australia has a long and terrible history of racism including a time when children were removed from their families because they were indigenous natives.

That is why all of the non-Americans here are getting a kick out of what is happening in the U.S. Americans are more vocal about racism than most other countries so they get front page news and everyone comes up with the bright idea that the U.S. is the most racist country on the planet. Talk to any white Australian in Australia what they think about Aboriginals, Lebanese/Muslim or Chinese people and you won't get a pretty answer. I love Australian people just like to avoid certain topics with some of them.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

The march will be by the ratbag fringe - left wing groups, anarchists.

Its an American incident, it was hardcore arrest that went wrong - George Floyd wasn't the innocent guy that the "mob" has made him out to be, apparently he has been to prison five times and was an absent father.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

It was an American murder in the US (and it was murder). Stop stressing police manpower at this time of Covid-19.

The same in London. Why are the black community outraged against the British police for something that happened in the US?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

George Floyd wasn't the innocent guy that the "mob" has made him out to be, apparently he has been to prison five times and was an absent father.

What's your point? None of this is relevant, unless you believe that being an absentee father and having been to prison a handful of times is punishable by execution by a state official without trial.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Talk to any white Australian in Australia what they think about Aboriginals, Lebanese/Muslim or Chinese people and you won't get a pretty answer.

Any Australian? You must have a real narrow circle of the wrong kind of people.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

None of this is relevant, unless you believe that being an absentee father and having been to prison a handful of times is punishable by execution by a state official without trial.

No. But the fact that he broke into a black pregnant woman's home, robbed her and beat her, in addition to pushing a gun against her stomach threatening the unborn child, showed how little he cared about black lives.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Any Australian? You must have a real narrow circle of the wrong kind of people

Hey, now you understand when people call white Americans anti-black and all cops are racist.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I wanted to support BLM until I read that they want reparations for slavery. So, they're on their own, as far as I'm concerned.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Hey, now you understand when people call white Americans anti-black and all cops are racist.

Hey, pal, I've always understood that, which is why I don't make posts like that. Some Americans are racist, some aren't. Some American cops are racist, some aren't. Likewise some Australians are racist, and some aren't. So It would be good, and more accurate, if you amended your statement about all Australians being racist, because it sure doesn't accord with my reality living here in Australia, and neither is it an acceptable description of myself or most people I know.

So how about it? Change your comment to "talk to some white Australians in Australia about Aboriginals, Lebanese and Chinese, and not all white Australians"? You prepared to do that? Or are you going to stick to what is, when you get right down to it, a pretty racist statement in itself about Australians?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

No. But the fact that he broke into a black pregnant woman's home, robbed her and beat her, in addition to pushing a gun against her stomach threatening the unborn child, showed how little he cared about black lives.

Weird that there are no court records to confirm this, and only a handful of rumors on far-right websites. But carry on trying to excuse someone being murdered in the street for no crime.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Nobody is born racist.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

500 or thousands, what’s the difference when you’re outdoors? I still don’t get the logic. Tell me there’s an extremist problem, I’ll accept but don’t use the COVID-19 excuse.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Sneezy

What's your point? None of this is relevant, unless you believe that being an absentee father and having been to prison a handful of times is punishable by execution by a state official without trial.

Floyd wasn't "executed" in response to his past crimes. I want to see the cop convicted of murder as he did not exhibit a reasonable respect for life in that situation. Floyd could have avoid the situation completely had he led a less-criminal lifestyle and reacted to his life's challenges in a way that was not counter-productive. This human drama and tragedy has been playing out for thousands of years. To suggest it's a unique situation for a particular racial demographic in our current times is deceitful and utterly false.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Well, the Black Lives Matter protests in Sydney for tomorrow have just been declared illegal by the Supreme Court. I'm guessing some people will defy the ruling and still gather to protest - most likely the indigenous community. Not a good look for NSW if some of these get arrested and dragged away by cops.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

George Floyd's last criminal conviction was 13 years ago in 2007. His criminal convictions does not justify his death by the cops.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Weird that there are no court records to confirm this

https://twitter.com/GoldenedGirl/status/1266632452572942337

You can keep deleting my comment if you want, but if you don't delete the equally "off-topic" post that I'm replying to, you're kind of showing your bias.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Cool, note that there was nothing that confirmed what you said in those records, merely a quote from the U.K. Daily Mail - a far right paper known for being inaccurate! Good effort, but stick to what you’re good at: making excuses for racist murderers.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Floyd could have avoid the situation completely had he led a less-criminal lifestyle and reacted to his life's challenges in a way that was not counter-productive.

Wrong!

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I'm not excusing anyone. Just pointing out that Floyd wasn't a saint.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Why? What does it matter that someone wasn’t a saint? The implication is that his murder isn’t a tragedy because “he was no angel”. Just a load of BS to excuse murders committed by racist cops.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

You're strawmanning. No one is saying what your implying.

He threatened a black woman with a gun. He threatened an unborn child. Using him for the protest is distasteful.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

He threatened a black woman with a gun. He threatened an unborn child. Using him for the protest is distasteful.

Floyd served all convictions and the last one was 13 years ago in 2007. The protests are about the violent death of a black person by the cops when he was shackled and on the ground. The same would apply if the victim was white. Police brutality must end.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

You are trying to veer aware from the fact that he did terrible things.

Doesn't matter if it was in 1995, he demonstrated that he didn't value the lives of fellow blacks, or even unborn children. That is the point.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

You are trying to veer aware from the fact that he did terrible things.

And you are failing to mention the fact that some of the things he did were not terrible at all but he was thrown in jail for them nonetheless. Do you have any idea what being thrown into the world's largest prison system does to minor criminals?? It makes them major criminals! The American system has forgotten all about what reform is. In the process they have destroyed families and childhoods. First the police, laws and courts set them up, then they knock them down. They created George Floyd, and then they killed him after he became a much better person on his own.

if it was in 1995, he demonstrated that he didn't value the lives of fellow blacks, or even unborn children. 

False on two counts. For one, he never killed anyone. For two that was 2009.

But of course a much more important point is that the cops who murdered him knew nothing of this. They also did not know if he was guilty of passing a counterfeit. For all they knew, he could have been as innocent as a a lamb. For all they knew, he could have been you or me.

And the most important point of all is that George Floyd is just one of the multitude murdered by American cops. This is not about George Floyd alone. This is about decades of police abuse, violence, murder and impunity for it all.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

False on two counts. For one, he never killed anyone. For two that was 2009.

erm, I didn't say either of those.

I said 'It doesn't matter IF it was 1995'

Also, I didn't say he killed anyone.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@Tangerine2000

Surely the issue of what happened in the incident which led to Floyd’s death is the most important thing here.

Did the officer who had his knee on Floyd’s neck know the ins and outs of his past?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The officer who killed Floyd has 10 serious complaints against him over 19 years. Even his wife is divorcing him over the violence.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Did the officer who had his knee on Floyd’s neck know the ins and outs of his past?

I believe he actually did as they worked together as bouncers at the same venue years before.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

It would be great if there was a way to identify all the people who don't wear the mask in crowds and don't practice social distancing. The damage caused by asymptomatic carriers can't be traced back to them, and they know it. With a list of known, ignorant non-compliant people, it would make it easier to decide who gets medical treatment first in the event of another worldwide spike.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I believe he actually did as they worked together as bouncers at the same venue years before.

Speculative. We’ve all worked with people without knowing much about them.

The issue what you should be focusing on here is what happened in this particular incident. Floyd certainly wasn’t a saint, but that has no bearing on the disgusting conduct of the officer in this particular incident.

You are not arguing for the idea of he got what was coming to him, are you?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

No. I am not.

I'm not sensing any clear condemnation of the things he did from you, though. Do you condemn them?

I also think it's best if I decide what to focus on, thank you.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

I'm not sensing any clear condemnation of the things he did from you, though. Do you condemn them?

Of course I do. What decent person wouldn’t? I, like you, don’t know what kind of person emerged from his past convictions.

Where are you in this debate? I’m on the side of police officers shouldn’t leave their knee on the neck of anyone who is saying he or she couldn’t breathe regardless of their past.

Are you saying this isn’t what we should be focusing on? If not, what should we be focusing on?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I'm saying that I would like to choose what I focus on for myself, in reply to your 'what you should be focusing on is' comment.

The police officer used excessive force and should be punished.

I think it's quite interesting that people are completely ignoring the vile things Floyd did himself.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Someone without a conviction for 13 years sounds like he at least made some personal life changes.

But nothing should distract from how he was killed by the cops.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

But nothing should distract from how he was killed by the cops

You seem to want a narrative where Floyd was a person without agency. I think it is entirely reasonable to take his past behaviour into account as it is relevant to how he is perceived.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

BLM instructions to white people for the protests:

FOLLOW DIRECTIONS. If a black person tells you to do something, you do it immediately without question. You respect the authority and decisions of the black protestors at all times.”

White people are also not allowed to lead chants and will be required to stay at the back of the protest until they are called forward, with the guide telling them, “WHEN YOU ARE AT THE FRONT, YOU ARE SILENT.”

When you are at the front, be silent. Your job is to be body.

That will be fun to watch. Lets see how brainwashed young Aussies are.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

I think it's quite interesting that people are completely ignoring the vile things Floyd did himself

He did vile things but you nor I know what kind of person emerged from his past.

Your focus is on Floyd as a bad man.

I can’t help getting a sense that you think he got what he deserved.

There is no hint of this, is there?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I can’t help getting a sense that you think he got what he deserved.

It's very simple. Policeman bad. Floyd man with criminal history.

It was wrong of the officer to use such excessive force that resulted in his death. The officer should be punished.

Are you not in agreement with that?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I believe he actually did as they worked together as bouncers at the same venue years before.

This is equivalent to religious belief, in that it's based entirely on belief and extrapolation of real world events, rather than on any kind of facts.

There has been nothing to say they were ever even in the same building together when they worked.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It was wrong of the officer to use such excessive force that resulted in his death. The officer should be punished.

Are you not in agreement with that?

I am. What I don't understand is why people keep bringing up his past. See how there is nothing about his past in the above statement?

So the question becomes why are people bringing up his past? If it's irrelevant to his murder, then it's either people trying to paint him as deserving of murder, or else people who aren't intelligent enough to realize that bringing up his past comes off as trying to paint him as deserving of murder. Either way these comments do nothing to further the conversation, and everything to muddy it up. These comments are irresponsible.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

BLM instructions to white people for the protests:

Sounds like something a BLM-hating white person made up as a false-flag.

I hope you don't think your random comments amount to any kind of evidence or fact.

No, as random comments, they also just muddy the conversation.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

You seem to want a narrative where Floyd was a person without agency. I think it is entirely reasonable to take his past behaviour into account as it is relevant to how he is perceived.

So now we're at 'he was a person of agency' and that his murder was justified due to 'how he was perceived'.

Rather than based on his actual actions. Which were being incapacitated on the ground, being held down by two grown men with another kneeling on his neck until he died.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So now we're at 'he was a person of agency' and that his murder was justified due to 'how he was perceived'.

IS perceived, not was perceived.

And please stop strawmanning. Absolutely nobody in this thread has said his murder was justified. Very unhelpful when you do that.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

IS perceived, not was perceived.

He's dead. There is no more "is".

And please stop strawmanning. Absolutely nobody in this thread has said his murder was justified.

And again, bringing up his past, which the officer wouldn't know, is either an attempt to justify his murder, or not being intelligent enough to see how bringing in irrelevant information muddies the conversation by making it look as if the murder was justified.

Either way, your comments don't serve the conversation at all.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

You know it's possible for someone's reputation to be perceived after they've died, don't you?

And again, bringing up his past, which the officer wouldn't know, is either an attempt to justify his murder, or not being intelligent enough to see how bringing in irrelevant information muddies the conversation by making it look as if the murder was justified.

That's a long way of saying "I don't like what you are saying".

Either way, your comments don't serve the conversation at all.

Then please feel free to scroll past them. You are not obliged to read them.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

You know it's possible for someone's reputation to be perceived after they've died, don't you?

I know that his reputation didn't matter when they held him down, choking him until he died, as they could have (and should have) cuffed/immobilized him at any time after they pinned him down and incapacitated him.

Your "perception" has no relevance, unless to try to justify his murder by the police. Unless you're trying to say that anyone should be allowed to be summarily executed by the police based on their past record, regardless of whether they've already served their debt to society.

I mean, I personally wouldn't bring up such a point, as it comes across as trying to justify Floyd's murder by the police, as if it were justified based on his race. But I guess some people don't mind bringing up irrelevant information that makes them look like they're trying to justify his murder.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Police brutality continues

Police Push 75-Year-Old Man To Ground, Injuring Him During Buffalo Protests

Smashed the back of his into the ground and left him there bleeding.

The video contains vulgarity and disturbing images.

https://t.co/A2Q92yP65q pic.twitter.com/DXq54eDZN8

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Policing in America is broken.

This is what happens when you turn your police - who should de-escalate situations - into military - who escalate situations.

Protect and serve in America has very often become protect your ass, and serve your personal interests.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Black lives only matter when they are killed by whites.

When they are killed by other blacks, who cares.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

When they are killed by other blacks, who cares.

Um, lots of people.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I don't know what the statistics are like for Aboriginals in Australia, but since this is BLM which started in the US, the stats don't support the idea that blacks are being targeted for abuse by the police in America.

I refer you to a black man who is on the US Civil Rights Commission.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/flames-from-false-narratives/

Here are the numbers:

In 2016, 466 whites were killed by police; 233 blacks were killed by police.

Whites are 76.5 percent of the U.S. population (including Hispanics); blacks are 13.4 percent of the U.S. population.

Whites commit 59 percent of violent crimes (defined as murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, aggravated assault); blacks commit 37.5 percent of violent crimes.

In 2016, 66 cops were killed in the line of duty; 32 whites and 15 blacks were identified as the killers.

* More than twice as many blacks (533) murdered whites in 2016 than whites (243) murdered blacks.

Black males are 6 percent of the U.S. population. Black males are responsible for 42 percent of cop killings in the last decade.

* In 2016, 222 black males were killed by police. 16 were unarmed. 445 white males were killed by police. 20 were unarmed.

It's no secret that Black Lives Matter was created in response to a lie - that Michael Brown was killed in cold blood by a racist Ferguson police officer. Remember this happened under Obama and his wing man Attorney General admitted that it was self defense.

The mainstream media and the American Left will make it seem like there is a race war against black Americans - but this is not supported by facts. It does however suit the political goals of those making this claim. This isn't to excuse the murder of George Floyd by a white policemen. I also do not excuse the murder of white people by the police either. It's just that when a mere 6% of the US population is committing a hugely disproportionate among of violent crime, something is going on that is bigger than the relatively smaller number of police shootings of blacks relative to whites based on the racial breakdown of those involved in violent crime.

I guess you could argue that the stats are wrong. If they are, then it needs to be shown how that is so. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that blacks are having a hard time with the police in America - but if that is what the media is preoccupied with then it's hard to say this is a true picture of the situation.

I need to do more research. I am interested in comparable stats in Australia.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The majority of black people are murdered by other black people. The majority of white people are murdered by other white people.

Both blacks and whites experience police brutality, blacks at a higher per capita rate.

Both whites and blacks are given prison sentences.

The black community is 14% of the general population but 45% of the prison one.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@zichi

Link doesn't work, for me at least. Try this one.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/04/buffalo-police-officers-suspended-shoving-man-ground/3151434001/

Pretty nasty, the old chap was bleeding from his inner ear onto the pavement. Seems like he was just trying to return a riot cop helmet to them. Cops obviously pretty tense and twitchy, reminds me of the miners' strike in '84

3 ( +3 / -0 )

unless you that perception would justifiy his murder.

Sorry, you're going to have to type that again, please. I can't quite understand what you are trying to say. Typo maybe?

Nevertheless, that's exactly the message your posts are conveying.

How so?

show how your posts convey the idea that you are trying to justify his murder by the police.

I think that's about the tenth time you've typed "justify his murder". I would give it a rest, lad.

Repeating the same phrase as a mantra because you believe that's what the other person thinks doesn't make it so.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Sorry, you're going to have to type that again, please. I can't quite understand what you are trying to say. Typo maybe?

"unless you are of the opinion that perception would justifiy his murder."

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

How so?

I've already explained multiple times.

I'm sorry, if you are not able to get it from those explanations, then it's a problem of you not being able to get it, or not wanting to. Further explanations by my part are not going to help you, and anyone else will see how my arguments make sense.

I think that's about the tenth time you've typed "justify his murder". I would give it a rest, lad.

I'll give it up when people stop trying to justify his murder.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

unless you are of the opinion that perception would justifiy his murder."

Ah. I see. We'll be going round in circles then. As I said, I have not said that, no one has said that. You are trying your best to make out that I/someone has.

Further explanations by my part are not going to help you, and anyone else will see how my arguments make sense.

Goodo.

I'll give it up when people stop trying to justify his murder.

11! Well, 12 if we include the re-typed sentence.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Donald Trump calls massive fall in unemployment a 'great day' for murdered George Floyd in bizarre White House address saying: 'Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying, 'This is a great day for our country.' This is a great day for him.'

The US jobless rate dropped to 13.3% in May from 14.7% in April, according to a Labor Department report on Friday.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Donald Trump calls massive fall in unemployment a 'great day' for murdered George Floyd in bizarre White House address saying: 'Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying, 'This is a great day for our country.' This is a great day for him.'

Very presidential.

And the extremist right won't even admit the possibility that he's anything less than a perfect president.

This unreasonable stance has created a toxic political environment where nothing can be improved, because they won't even admit there's a problem.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If it's not to justify his murder,

then why would his past have any relevance at all?

Because if he had no history of crime, people would have a different perception of how he is being used as symbol for the protests. Commiting a crime in the past does not give grounds (there's a different expression you could use) for the lethal force he received when being arrested, though.

Then what is the relevance of your comment?

Which one?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

ClippetyClop

@zichi

Link doesn't work, for me at least. Try this one.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/04/buffalo-police-officers-suspended-shoving-man-ground/3151434001/

Pretty nasty, the old chap was bleeding from his inner ear onto the pavement. Seems like he was just trying to return a riot cop helmet to them. Cops obviously pretty tense and twitchy, reminds me of the miners' strike in '84

This works

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1268760744977477633

2 ( +2 / -0 )

if he had no history of crime, people would have a different perception of how he is being used as symbol for the protests.

The protests are about a person who was incapacitated You're trying to say his past would change the perception of his being used as a symbol - how? In what way?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Which one?

All your comments that come across as trying to paint his murder as justified by bringing up his irrelevant past of course.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

All your comments that come across as trying to paint his murder as justified by bringing up his irrelevant past of course.

I think it is quite hypocritical for people to try use him as a symbol because he himself had no problem threatening other black people, including unborn children, with a gun. That past behaviour is relevant to the theme of the protest.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I think it is quite hypocritical for people to try use him as a symbol because he himself had no problem threatening other black people

Why? I'm not seeing how his having (allegedly) threatened other people would make people feel less angry about him having been restrained beyond any point of reason, until he is dead.

Now that said, I'm trying to see this through with you. So how would his (alleged) threats make people feel less angry about his being restrained until he was dead?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I'm not seeing how his having (allegedly) threatened other people would make people feel less angry about him having been restrained beyond any point of reason, until he is dead.

It's like someone who has a history of kicking cats being used as the symbol of an animal rights demonstration.

Now that said, I'm trying to see this through with you

Don't worry, you don't have to. I think you are solely focussing on the arrest. I am pointing out that if people are going to protest with the message of black lives matter, it isn't wise to have someone who has a history of threatening other blacks at the forefront.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

It's like someone who has a history of kicking cats being used as the symbol of an animal rights demonstration.

No that analogy doesn't work.

The protest here is that a man was choked after being rendered incapacitated, until he died. This is wrong, regardless of his past.

If the person who was kicking cats had saved someone's life from a murderer, at risk to their own life, I'd praise them for it, regardless of their past.

Now, you tried to give an analogy, but it wasn't accurate, because I'm still not getting it.

I mean, the only thing that would make me feel better about it, is if he were a serial killer or a serial rapist, and even then I wouldn't find the police actions justified, I'd just feel less bad about such a person being dead.

I am pointing out that if people are going to protest with the message of black lives matter, it isn't wise to have someone who has a history of threatening other blacks at the forefront.

So wait, you're saying that if people knew who he was, they wouldn't be as angry about what happened to him. In other words, people would feel that it was a little more ok that the police murdered him, and therefore would see no need to protest.

And fi people feel that it was a little more ok, that would mean they feel it's a little more justified.

Which, is the logic I was using when I pointed out that bringing up his past came across as trying to justify his murder, and your last comment seems to confirm that for me again.

But, you have said that's not the case. So rather than an analogy, can you please explain in plain English how the knowledge that he was a despicable person would make people less enraged that he was held down and choked until he died, and how that being less enraged would come about by any other means than thinking his death was somewhat justified due to additional knowledge about his past?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@zichi: The majority of black people are murdered by other black people. The majority of white people are murdered by other white people.

But for whatever reason,  more than twice as many blacks (533) murdered whites in 2016 than whites (243) murdered blacks. Given that blacks are such a small portion of the overall population the per capita rate make these numbers is much much worse.

Whites are 76.5 percent of the U.S. population (including Hispanics); blacks are 13.4 percent of the U.S. population. Whites commit 59 percent of violent crimes (defined as murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, aggravated assault); blacks commit 37.5 percent of violent crimes.

What these statistics tells us is that though most black and white people are decent law abiding citizens, the level of violent crime is much higher among black Americans. What's more is that most of the violent crime among blacks is by black men (6% of population). There are of course many reasons behind this with some of that due to the harsh treatment they have received over an extended period of time. Regardless of the many variables involved in brining about this reality, these are facts. Past racism in the form of slavery and Jim Crow are facts. Current very high levels of violent crime among black males is also a fact. This is why whenever someone points out that blacks make up a disproportionate number of prisoners it must also be noted that there is a very good reason for it above and beyond harsh treatment in the criminal justice system. But again, the vast majority of young black males are very good people - but the stats are the stats and they must be faced and acknowledged in order to deal with the problem.

As we have seen with most leaders today dealing with this problem head on is not at all possible. Any attempts to face the sorry state of the black community is immediately shut down by cries of racism. If a community and a nation cannot even talk about their problems they will never be able to solve them. It's why even in Progressive cities blacks are extremely frustrated and periodically explode in anger at the failure of their communities to deal with social problems. So the sad truth is that 60 years after the civil rights era, nothing has changed. In fact, they are much worse. Marriage among blacks has plummeted leaving many women leading single parent families with no prospects for achieving financial independence. Substance abuse is high, joblessness is high and as a result health outcomes lag. Numerous social programs of various kinds have been tried but they all fail. But I guarantee you that the same old solutions will be tried over and over again with the hope of a different result. It's sad to see the hope of the civil rights era destroyed by the failures of the political Left to satisfy the needs of their most ardent supporters. So many seemed trapped in a Stockholm Syndrome relationship with Progressives - unable to break free of their bleak circumstances.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Is there really a place on earth.... that is racism-free of any kind?

Just asking.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Is there really a place on earth.... that is racism-free of any kind?

Would the answer to that change whether or not we should be aiming for an earth free of racism?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

If a community and a nation cannot even talk about their problems they will never be able to solve them.

I agree, but trying to get the white community to talk usually ends up with deflection and a refusal to acknowledge their problems.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

"is there really a place on earth.... that is racism-free of any kind?"

If not strictly defined racism, then discrimination, oppression, sectarianism, tribalism, or whatever you want to call it. It's almost everywhere in the world and it can be extremely nasty.

Societies in West are generally the world's most tolerant societies in that regard. If they weren't, the record-high migration now taking place wouldn't be an overwhelmingly one-way street: from intolerant non-Western societies to tolerant Western societies.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites