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Australia seeks to ban schools from expelling gay students

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Being gay is nothing to do with being left or right, religion or the color of your skin. It's a shame in this day and age where discrimination still can occur under the guise of religion.

Segregating children on the basis of religion is such a stupid idea in the first place.

Sure is. Just look at NI/6 counties to see how that's turned out.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The problem with this is then you'll have privileged gay students claiming the reason for their expulsion was because of their sexuality, not because of the actually offense(s).

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

“...no student of a non-state school should be expelled on the basis of their sexuality,”

What is the word “sexuality “ meant here? Does it refer to students with same-sex attraction who do not act on such attraction? Does it refer to pupils who sometimes engage in same-sex acts but do not identify with the gay lifestyle? Or does it refer to those who do actively live and identify as gay?

Without clear definitions, there cannot be a clear dialogue.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

This is such a non-story, I'm kind of disappointed that it's appeared in the international media at all. This isn't a practice that's done by religious schools, this story hasn't come to the media's attention because any school has done this, it's only come to attention recently because the loop-hole in the law was discovered, and will be fixed with full support of both sides of politics, left and right, and rightfully so. That's how a functioning government works. If you find a problem, fix it. For some people, though, this is just a platform to scream "bigotry" despite the fact that nothing has actually happened.

A problem in the law was found, all sides of government, and religious schools as well, agree that it should be fixed. It's getting fixed. But don't let that get in the way of any outrage...

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Why won't any other sexual preferences be given equal legal protection under this law? 

M3M3M3 - perhaps they should be, but the problem they are trying to stop is gay children being expelled from catholic schools.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

By this standard, it could be argued that govt telling religious schools (ie church-schools) to not ban gays is imposing on their religious observance and prohibiting their free exercise

It is a difficult point. Religious freedom is essential in a civilised country like Australia. Unfortunately, bigotry is often regarded as acceptable by some if it is cloaked in religion.

My own take is not to ban religious schools and the bigotry some of them see as devine. We should just regard it as bigotry and not accept religion as an excuse for it in the same way we don’t make excuses for racism.

Just a suggestion.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Also, I know my views may not be in line with the moderators, but I do hope they will try to refrain from deleting my comments. I do try to provide cogent arguments, devil's advocacy, or sarcasm to prove a point. Not everyone has the same point of view, but there is nothing wrong with civil discourse - it should be encouraged. Thank you for your consideration.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Just a thought, but Australia has freedom religion and separation of church & state enshrined in the constitution. Section 116 states: "the commonwealth shall make no law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion..."

By this standard, it could be argued that govt telling religious schools (ie church-schools) to not ban gays is imposing on their religious observance and prohibiting their free exercise.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

To those talking of equality: do you tolerate the govt allowed segregation of sports and schools, based on gender? Where is the outrage of male-only teams? Female-only teams? Desegregate, this is the 21st century, not the dark ages. ;)=

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Good. A law that should've been changed a long time ago, but only highlighted now to gain political points in the debate over personal rights ahead of a by-election. The law, as it stands, isn't commonly supported (even by the Christian schools themselves) and, as the absence of past examples in the article suggests, has rarely (never?) been claimed as grounds for expulsion for decades.

Religious schools can still fire gay teachers though, but again, its state based, so not in every state.

Neither the LNP or the Labor party plan on changing it because its a bridge too far on religious freedom grounds. My position is that unless they are caught teaching moral lessons against generally accept Christian ethics or leftist crap on gender and other nonsensical gibberish, then even if gay, they should not be fired.

It should be about how you operate in the school. What your actions are. Get away from the identity politics of oh this person is gay so they can't teach in our religious school.

This announcement by Morrison is only in relation to students.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Good. A law that should've been changed a long time ago, but only highlighted now to gain political points in the debate over personal rights ahead of a by-election. The law, as it stands, isn't commonly supported (even by the Christian schools themselves) and, as the absence of past examples in the article suggests, has rarely (never?) been claimed as grounds for expulsion for decades.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If you were to go into some of the ethnic and religious private schools in Australia, I suspect you would find alot of pressure for students to choose a partner from within their own race or ethnicity.

Absolutely. Its obvious that for the most part, white Australians can get together in a relationship with whoever they like, but Chinese, Indian etc? no no no. There exceptions, but the fact is these cultures are very much racist towards "others". The left, never, ever admits this, but you go to Australia and many other countries and its just a known. Gradually those barriers will break down, but traditional attitudes are very strong in those communities.

I want to see the left recognize this truth. See if they have the guts.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

I’m not totally comfortable with the idea of banning religious schools, although I think not a single penny of taxpayer money should be used to fund them.

Why should the taxpayer be on the hook for this?

If you don't fund religious and private schools, you get two problems

1) You cut down on choice and competition. Private and religious schools often achieve better academic results than public schools. That isn't always about the quality of the teaching. The buy-in from parents is also a whole other level. It costs a fortune so parents are far more interested and involved in their kids education in general and also, obviously, come from wealthier backgrounds and often highly educated themselves.

2) People will argue you need to provide tax rebates to those that do send their kids to private schools if you defund them because why should they be taxed for public schools they won't use? That could get complicated but I think that argument would be made. If you had kids of school age, that had to go to some sort of school, you could make that argument.

By extension you can also make the argument that until you have kids of school age maybe you should receive a tax rebate at the end of the financial year on like a percentage basis based on what government spends on schools. Again its complicated in Australia because a lot of it is paid for by state governments, not federal. Can make this argument with a lot of stuff. User pays argument.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

I think that Catholicism and Christian faiths in general have turned the corner on discrimination against gay people in their doctrines some time ago. Given the declining numbers of Christians in the Western world, although not in the developing world, they should ask themselves if its wise to block out a reasonable size minority of people from attending Christian services and benefiting from a traditional education etc.

Surely, it is much better to expand the flock and the church and teach the fundamentals in terms of morality that if genuinely adhered too set you up for a pretty good life, certainly not a life in conflict with the law.

Happy to see that gay kids aren't banned from private and/or religions schools, but when it comes to religious schools, the ability to hire and fire should be retained for those that deliberately teach material or morality in conflict with the faith, just like you would be fired if you consistently taught material not in line with a curriculum.

If I kids of school age, I would send them to Anglican school here in Australia for sure, especially if it helps me avoid the more wacky leftist gender theory anti-biology nonsense.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

I am confused. In my school years and in college I was never asked once my sexuality. How and why would the school even know?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

And I agree with Jimzo, religious segregation in schools should be banned.

I’m not totally comfortable with the idea of banning religious schools, although I think not a single penny of taxpayer money should be used to fund them.

Why should the taxpayer be on the hook for this?

Anyway, if the leaders of religious schools are sincere in their claims that they are not brainwashing or preaching sectarianism, there should be no need for religious schools in the first place. Surely children can be trusted to find their supposedly ‘self-evident’ claims without prompting.

Oh, and stop giving gays a hard time. It isn’t civilised.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Did you actually read the article or just the sensationalised headline? This only applies to Catholic private schools.

Oh, have a day off. Yes, I did read the article. Yes, it only applies to Catholic schools, but I still can't understand how this is legal. A school, religious or otherwise, should be subject to the same laws as every other school.

And I agree with Jimzo, religious segregation in schools should be banned.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Segregating children on the basis of religion is such a stupid idea in the first place.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

If the catholics in Oz cant get this right their schools should be shut down, there done!

1 ( +7 / -6 )

@Luddite - You can expel kids because they are gay? That's legal? Australia has a lot of catching up to do.

Did you actually read the article or just the sensationalised headline? This only applies to Catholic private schools. There has been a few recent cases of students being removed from Catholic schools due to their sexuality. State schools do not have such regulations. It is the Catholic church who has some catching up to do. I guess you've never been to Australia or heard of the Sydney gay Mardi Gras, which has been running for decades and is the biggest celebration of gayness in the world.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Why won't any other sexual preferences be given equal legal protection under this law? Why is it limited only to sexual preferences based only on gender? Why not protect every other sexual preference? Or at the very least, why not preferences for other protected characteristics such as race, ethnicity or religion? Or other immutable characteristics like height or eye and hair colour?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

You can expel kids because they are gay? That's legal? Australia has a lot of catching up to do.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

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