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Australia to boost defense forces by nearly a third

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So spend all this money on killing people, when nobody is attacking you, and ignore the total devastation of massive parts of Australia from worsening floods and wildfires? People are in shelters. My friends houses are damaged. It’s serious.

how about to care for your mates in your country first.

they have to prepare for a massive tsunami along the east coastline.

don’t waste money on US/uK nuke subs.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

A minuscule increase in force size. That would still keep the Army under 50,000 troops which is one of the smallest Armies on the planet for an industrialized country and still the smallest in the G20 nations.

Doing this by 2040 will be too late anyway. Australia needs to have an armed force of regulars at least 150,000 strong plus the same in reserves. Just to be able to defend Australia for a limited time.

The increase in wages alone for these extra 18,500 troops is a huge cost. Equipping them will also cost. But it needs to be much better and faster. At least it is a start.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

So spend all this money on killing people, when nobody is attacking you, and ignore the total devastation of massive parts of Australia from worsening floods and wildfires? People are in shelters. My friends houses are damaged. It’s serious.

how about to care for your mates in your country first.

they have to prepare for a massive tsunami along the east coastline.

don’t waste money on US/uK nuke subs.

Cant ignore China's huge increase in Military spending as they often threaten Australia these days.

How about you spend time trying to convince China not to keep growing its military which is 3 million strong before you tell Australia not to increase its tiny armed forces by a piddly 18,500 people. They dont often kill people but they are gainfully employed and can support their families while supporting their nation.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

My friends houses are damaged. It’s serious.

I'm starting to detect a theme

3 ( +4 / -1 )

AUS gov is a big fail.

first covid situation handling.

now flooding issues handling.

let me ask one question-who is going to attack Australia?

Papua?Fiji?

or ...Nauru?

AUS gov is out of touch with reality and have no idea about real needs of australian citizens at all!

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

Pointless. Only local threat this deters is the Kiwis. Think China will blink at 18,500 more troops?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Over a 18 year period !

Too slow and too late !

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

how about to care for your mates in your country first.

Thie above sounds like the anti-democracy/pro-authoritarians latest message to democracies, don't try to defend your nation, China and Russia want to take your country away without suffering any losses to their forces. Russia is watching its forces in Ukraine getting bloodied and bruised, but Putin remains safe and has shown he couldn't care less about sacrificing Russian serfs as long as he can stay in charge and live his life protected in one of his palaces.

I'm anti-defense spending in the US, given the size of its current nuclear arsenal it does not need to spend trillions on more nukes and other weapons.

Australia's threats from global climate change are real, both China and Russia have contributed to those problems, as have those who want to continue burning huge amounts of fossil fuel, and maintain the fossil economy. Long passed time to develop clean renewable ways to generate electricity and power vehicles. No more wars for oil and empires.

https://www.bridgestone.com/bwsc/stories/article/2019/11/13-2.html

 pole-shaped wind turbine, Vortex Bladeless, generates power by shaking.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Waste of time and money again, by the inept Australian government. The only thing preventing China from overtly attacking Australia is the alliance with the US and other countries. China will continue its covert operations to take over the country through the purchase of real estate, strategic facilities, etc. and influence in Australian universities.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

AUS gov is out of touch with reality and have no idea about real needs of australian citizens at all!

Curious what non-Australians think Australia needs, It's rated as one of the freest countries on the planet, that must make those from authoritarian states envious. Or would you like to see them dragged down to Russia/China/Iran level.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

That’s about 1.45mio US$ per one of the new planned additional personal. It would be better by all logic and considerations, to get that sum in cash for oneself, so you not only can become rich and buy enormous and better defense equipment by yourself but also go into other much nicer and more peace oriented parts of the globe, instead of being employed there as a soldier for some pocket money by those crazy warmongering bosses and be endangered and life threatened already while in training, maneuvers or latest if in real combat situations.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

18 years later, China has an armada of stealth bombers flying over the west Pacific!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Meanwhile, the actual citizens of Australia have been left to handle the flood catastrophe on their own. Shame on ScuMo and the Liberal Nationals Coalition.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Yes Despots and Autocrats do not want better defended democracies they want less defended democracies so they can take them over without damage or losses.

Australia needs to develop conventional armed long range ballistic missiles like the other nations either have done or plan to do. If we get hit, we hit back. Would rather be a hard target than an easy mark.

China is preparing for war, as Russia did. It is no secret they have already threatened to attack the Australian mainland. We need to be able to hit back without risking valuable people and assets just to get close enough to do so. Cant beat them but can destroy many targets of their massive military.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

This is where a nuclear arsenal might come in handy. It seems nobody attacks those countries...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@Rodney: Don't waste money on US/UK nuke subs...

My friend, I can tell you the Aussie shall NEVER get any nuke subs(SSN) at the end!

Non nuclear armed country acquiring nuclear submarines was nothing new, CANADA ! The Canadians attempted to buy 12 S.S.N either from France or UK in late 1980s but after feasibility study, the plan was dropped in 1993. One reason : Too expensive! The price tag was just too expensive, it was not just the boats but the supporting nuclear facilities to make them operational. CANADA is a G7 member,a rather wealthy country and she has some level of nuclear industry although not much. The Aussie has NONE and the Australian economy cannot sustain this program, they plan to get their first of 8 S.S.Ns in 20 years, well you can imagine the massive cost overrun and the heavy burden to their nation is a political time bomb!

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

And I should clarify - I don't mean border skirmishes like India/China/Pakistan, I mean invasions of conquest.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

One thing forgotten to mention about Canada's submarine program.

The Canadians acquired 4 used "Upholders" SS Diesel submarine from UK to replace their "Oberon"(British submarine). This is likely to happen if the Labour party came to power: the Aussie will buy some used diesel submarines from other countries, maybe from Japan!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

CANADA is a G7 member,a rather wealthy country and she has some level of nuclear industry although not much. The Aussie has NONE and the Australian economy cannot sustain this program, they plan to get their first of 8 S.S.Ns in 20 years, well you can imagine the massive cost overrun and the heavy burden to their nation is a political time bomb!

Australia is also a fairly wealthy nation and has been running a Nuclear reactor in Sydney for many decades. We dont have an established industry around that but are capable of making one.

This is a defense necessity for our times unfortunately and it would be much cheaper to simply develop our own limited nuclear arsenal. But we dont want WMD, we just want an ability to better defend ourselves and our allies. The price of freedom is steep, just ask Ukraine. Cheaper to have 8 SSN's than to have to rebuild cities and downs.

The world would be much better off at peace and staying that way but with China, Russia, US and others increasing their military budget and size, everyone must follow suit to some degree or risk losing freedom like Ukraine risks now.

Something better than a toothless UN with selective veto's is desperately needed.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

We were all moving toward peace. Now, looks like war will be with us for a bit. Terrible.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Curious what non-Australians think Australia needs, It's rated as one of the freest countries on the planet

I think the draconian lockdowns and such implemented last year kinda of ruined that reputation.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

let me ask one question-who is going to attack Australia?

China, perhaps? You could ask the same of any country anywhere.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I think the draconian lockdowns and such implemented last year kinda of ruined that reputation.

Nope, not at all. It still remains one of the freest nations and one of the best places on the planet to live. Severe climate events not withstanding.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Forged at a time of growing Chinese influence in the Pacific region, the AUKUS alliance would make Australia the only non-nuclear weapons power with nuclear-powered submarines, capable of traveling long distances without surfacing.

This is not true.

Brazil in a number of years into the construction of it's first nuclear powered attack submarine and it also has no weapons of mass destruction. Australia will be the eighth nation to acquire submarines with nuclear propulsion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_submarine_Álvaro_Alberto

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I think the draconian lockdowns and such implemented last year kinda of ruined that reputation.

Curious how many Chinese, Russian and Iranian people would leave their homelands and move to Australia, knowing in Australia they'd have freedoms probably none of their ancestors ever had. I get it that the Aboriginal peoples have had a rough go, like most orignal people in countries conquered by Europeans, but I think they are still freer than all but the wealthiest and most politically connected currently living in Russia, China or Iran. Russians, Chinese and Iranian posters using social media in attempts to undermine democracies are a scourge, but in the west are still free to post their opinions which might differ from those of democratic governments. Can they do that without fear of reprisal in Russia, China, or Iran, and I'll add in other authoritarian states like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE, or Brunei. In those countries can anyone start a publication that is critical of their government and expect to stay in business. Look at Hong Kong and publications there, for a recent nearby example.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The CCP is never anything good. But saying they are going to threaten Australia in a military way? Well. In the mean time Australian mining companies are selling tons and tons of iron ore and other commodities to China. I bet none of them are being used to build the aircraft carriers or another other military hardware.

By the way, if you know the incredible track record of Australia's submarine fleet, you will not have a lot of hope in the new nuclear sub.

There are many things these money should go to but it is big federal election time again! ScoMo is just pulling out anything, no matter how outrageous it is, to try to get elected again.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

That should hold up the Chinese for about half an hour..

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Australia has trouble recruiting police, never mind soldiers.

The last time the Aussies rolled out a sub program it was a disaster for years. These new SSN's are magnitudes more complex and require a complete new infrastructure setup to support them. Of which Aussie has none and consequently no experience. I doubt the Chinese or Russians have much to fear for at least the next 30-40 years.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"If people think that the ambitions within the Indo-Pacific are restricted just to Taiwan and there won't be knock-on impacts if we don't provide a deterrent effect and work closely with our colleagues and with our allies, then they don't understand the lessons of history," Dutton said.

We need to spend more money bribing our Pacific island neighbors so they will not fall under the Chinese and let them build a navy base there.

The Chinese has already had weapons capable of threatening many countries around them for a long time. Its Dongfeng missiles.

Therefore, if we need a deterrent that is effective against China, we need to buy or borrow some ICBM nuclear missiles from our allies instead of building a few submarines that may not even be built. Problem solved. But whether they are willing to sell or lend them to us is another matter.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Well. In the mean time Australian mining companies are selling tons and tons of iron ore and other commodities to China. I bet none of them are being used to build the aircraft carriers or another other military hardware.

Yes, but how much better to be able to acquire those commodities from a captive, vassal state.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Rodney You wrote "don’t waste money on US/uK nuke subs". You have a good example, look at Ukraine they are asking for airplanes if they had the money and the equipment I bet it wouldn't be a waste!!! Now they are asking for airplanes and weapons!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Finland has a population of 5.5 million and shares a long land border with Russia. In time of war with their reserves can muster a land army of 230,000 officers and soldiers. Their army has 239 modern tanks Leopard 2A4s), 212 infantry fighting vehicles and some 860 armored personnel carriers. Australia last time I looked had about 55 tanks. Their air force is replacing their 55 active F/A-18s and 7 F/A-18D trainers with 64 F-35As. Their navy is smaller than Australia's.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Brazil in a number of years into the construction of it's first nuclear powered attack submarine and it also has no weapons of mass destruction. 

i don't think anyone in the intel, military or foreign affairs professions wants to go so far as to say Brazil has no active nuclear weapons programs underway. Nobody outside of a small circle of individuals in Brazil knows with certainty but Brazil certainly has many of the necessary technologies mastered. Remember nobody even suspected that Sweden had an active nuclear weapons program until their PM made a public announcement claiming Sweden was ending their nuclear weapons program. They conducted perhaps ten underground tests without being caught then, or so they claim, voluntarily swore them off.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Rodney

So spend all this money on killing people, when nobody is attacking you, 

If you wait to spend the money on military until the time that people are attacking you, you will be too late.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Nope, not at all. It still remains one of the freest nations and one of the best places on the planet to live

Totally free - as long as you don't have the gall to try to drink a beer standing up. https://twitter.com/PeterJohnLaw/status/1502045240953552898?t=TxKeFvTjlGH6m1WDKSFTqA&s=19

Joke of a nanny state. It's really quite a horrible place to exist.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

China is not threatening Australia. The bombastic, aggressive comments from Australia's far-right Defence Minister are not conducive to good relations.

China is Australia's biggest trading partner. The US is Australia's greatest trade rival. Any trade Australia has lost by this and similar comments by the PM (who is totally ignorant on foreign affairs) has been snapped up by the US, who must be laughing at this.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The one good idea the inept former PM of Australia, Abbott, had was to push for the country to purchase Sōryū submarines. They're already proven, conventional vessels, more suited to defence of Australia than the nuclear-powered ones from the US or UIK which may be delivered in 20 years - obsolete.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Australia is a little better than a third world country once if China found iron ore elsewelsewhere and decouple with RioTinto!

NUclear submarine is a very expensive military hardware, not IS can afford even one!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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