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Australian PM rejects Chinese criticism of nuclear sub deal

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By ROD McGUIRK

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44 Comments

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Who care Chinese Government whining? Just ignore mate.

19 ( +27 / -8 )

With all the destabilizing and militarizing that China has done in the region over the past decade, it is pretty rich for them to point a finger at anyone else.

Unlike China, Australia is not looking to expand it's territories or take from others.

France is understandably upset at losing a lucrative contract, but at the end of the day they have been earning very good money over the four years the contract ran, for essentially producing nothing. Some estimates put the figure over two billion dollars.

That Australia will eventually have a minimum of eight nuclear subs and perhaps more will serve the region well. The UK only maintains seven nuclear attack subs themselves plus their four ballistic missile subs that house their nuclear deterrent. This should mean a minimum of two with possibly a surge of four on active patrol at any given time during a conflict. A good move for Australia if they can get them in the water in a suitable time frame.

16 ( +23 / -7 )

Are sovereign states going to be forced to choose which empire they want to side with?

Beyond lots of good poetry being written, and the testing of new forms of weaponry and new warfare tactics. How did empire fighting empire turn out in the 1920's during what some call the Great War, others WW1?

In WW1 the following nations remained neutral: Norway, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Switzerland and Spain; in South America: Mexico, Chile and Argentina

Hopefully even more nations will decide not to side with any of the empires if another big war looks possible. US remain satisfied with your own territories, same with China and its Belt and Road, and Russia with its Eurasian Economic Union. Lots of problems to be dealt with in each of those places.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

Of course Biden forgot his name. That bumbling mess can barely push out a coherent sentence.

-6 ( +18 / -24 )

That is the truth. Biden forgot the name of the Prime Minister.

-5 ( +13 / -18 )

Australian PM rejects Chinese criticism of nuclear sub deal

I'm sure he does.

I don't agree with the Chinese but i do agree with the question: what good would nuke submarines do when you can launch them pretty much from anywhere.

Oh wait, from space? So this is about atmospherical weapons?

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

China's default mode is rhetoric

12 ( +17 / -5 )

Poor China, angry that people around the world don't like their asinine and self-isolating "Lone Wolf" form of foreign policy? Poor China, upset that people around the world no longer even pretend to believe Beijing's incessant lies and false promises about literally everything?

You mean to tell me that China's economic aggression, militarized intimidation and open cyber attacks on anyone who challenges its so-called "Peaceful Rise" actually creates conditions for sane countries to seek adequate checks on the bullies' power projection? Who woulda thunk it?! lol.

Deal with it, China (using what, that former Ukrainian-casino-cum-aircraft-carrier of yours that doesn't even have its own battle group yet, perhaps? Sure sure....)

Face it: China's actions only INCREASE the liklihood that the country will be contained to its traditional sphere of influence, the exact opposite of China's actual goals! You reap what you sow, King Xi, whether its famine like the Great Leap, catastophes like the Cultural Revolution or the modern Prison State of Isolation even now still outrageously referred to as the "People's Republic!"

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Why can’t anyone just be honest. The UK , US and Australia when asked should say, this new submarine group is being formed to combat China aggression.

And then if asked,

do you think a war with China is possible over Taiwan ?

yes , if they attack Taiwan or continue to impinge on their airspace

how about the East China Sea?

well those islands they have built military bases are not theirs, so if they continue to do so we will take action too,

there, easy.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

FizzBitToday  02:54 pm JST

Australian PM rejects Chinese criticism of nuclear sub deal

I don't agree with the Chinese but i do agree with the question: what good would nuke submarines do when you can launch them pretty much from anywhere.

Nuclear powered submarines are quiter and can stay submerged for much longer periods, operate at maximum speeds for longer periods and can operate without the need for refueling for years. All of which makes it harder for the Chinese PLA Navy to track. Which is why they are whining.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Scott Morrison is my new hero! I

6 ( +12 / -6 )

China reacted angrily when Biden, Morrison and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson used a virtual news conference this week to announce a trilateral defense alliance that will provide Australia with a fleet of at least eight nuclear-powered submarines.

Funny how those MUPPETS always lecture others about interfering in Chinese affairs and then proceed to do exactly what they complain others are doing to them.

Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Zhao Lijian said it was “highly irresponsible” for the U.S. and Britain to export the nuclear technology.

Zhao Lijian is a PUNK who needs to be deemed persona non grata by the west and its allies. THAT would send a real serious message to China

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Nuclear powered submarines are quiter and can stay submerged for much longer periods, operate at maximum speeds for longer periods and can operate without the need for refueling for years. All of which makes it harder for the Chinese PLA Navy to track. Which is why they are whining.

Gee thanks.

By the way, if nukes are deployed and fired, there will be no life on earth. just sayin

-17 ( +0 / -17 )

Biden aside, as no one is surprised he can't remember the name of one of the TWO guys that he is making this historical trilateral move with, any time you draw a tantrum reaction from the Chinese is always a good sign that you are on track. The two worlds are forming.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

They won’t be nuclear armed subs.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

FizzBitToday  03:31 pm JST

Nuclear powered submarines are quiter and can stay submerged for much longer periods, operate at maximum speeds for longer periods and can operate without the need for refueling for years. All of which makes it harder for the Chinese PLA Navy to track. Which is why they are whining.

Gee thanks.

By the way, if nukes are deployed and fired, there will be no life on earth. just sayin

Your welcome. By the way, whether any life remains on earth if nuclear weapons are deployed depends entirely on the type, number and locations involved.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

BlacklabelToday  02:39 pm JST

That is the truth. Biden forgot the name of the Prime Minister.

“Usually when we speak privately, he refers to me as ‘pal,’” Morrison told the Seven Network.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

That is the truth. Biden forgot the name of the Prime Minister.

I don't know much about american politics, but are you guys sure that Biden was the better choice compare to Trump?

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

Nuclear powered, not nuclear armed, there is a very big difference

By the way, if nukes are deployed and fired, there will be no life on earth. just sayin

9 ( +9 / -0 )

They are pretty much obsolete for anything other than SLBM launch platforms. The new attack subs in Chinese and Russian fleets are all diesel. Far quieter and harder to detect. USA still needs some nuclear powered attack subs because they have to go across the Pacific and/or Atlantic to reach major conflict zones but that leaves them at a disadvantage when up against diesel subs.

Not sure what Australia plans to do with nuclear powered subs. Obviously offensive operations are being planned but against who? Australia is going to launch a offensive military operations against China? I don't think that idea has been perfectly thought through.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

What happened to the massively upvoted posters from two days ago proclaiming Australia a "Communist Chinese vassal state" or some such nonsense, due to the Covid response?!

Now its all a big love-in for us!

No shock China is throwing a mini tantrum. Interesting to see how this plays out. We are talking long term here until the subs are launched. Sorry to say but we dont have a stellar record of building our subs here. There is still no known design and no contract in place for these subs. The French-designed ones were supposed to be launched in the early 2030s, so the earliest for the nuclear-powered ones will be mid to late 2030s.

Of course Biden forgot his name. That bumbling mess can barely push out a coherent sentence.

Bit harsh on Biden. Scotty isnt super memorable, to be fair.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Nuclear powered submarines are quiter

Utter nonsense.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/russia-launches-what-it-claims-will-be-the-quietest-submarine-in-the-world

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

This is an arms race among US allies with Australia eagerly spending tens of billions buying weapons. Do you really need Australia with nuclear subs? The U.S. military is already supreme, and it has the second largest navy in the world according to the US Department of Defense.

American nuclear subs already dominate the seas with no competition; it doesn’t need more Australian subs to help, except that is a lot of money for the U.S. military industrial complex. Follow the money. Australia's total wine exports to China drops 10%; the US conveniently fills the void. Australia is a good pal alright.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

IngvarToday  04:29 pm JST

> Utter nonsense.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/russia-launches-what-it-claims-will-be-the-quietest-submarine-in-the-world

Well, if Russia makes a claim, we know it’s true!

3 ( +8 / -5 )

It is planned that the first nuclear submarine could be in the fleet in 2040. If So Australia will be the eighth nation to operate nuclear submarines after US, Russia, China, UK, France, India and Brazil who have already begun construction on their first nuclear sub.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braziliansubmarine%C3%81lvaro_Alberto

For those who say Australia is not nuclear they overlook the nuclear reactor at Lucas heights in NSW.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Flux_Australian_Reactor

https://www.ansto.gov.au/research/facilities/opal-multi-purpose-reactor

A new one is now in operation after the old one was decommissioned. Australia has operated a nuclear reactor for decades since 1958. It will acquire new purpose built mini reactors for its submarines but it remains nuclear technology.

Since Australia is not in the habit of instigating military attacks on anyone, it should bother no peace loving nation in the region. Australia has a habit of assisting allies fight for freedom in far away places like Europe in WWI and WWII, in Korea and where our allies need us. Hence our small blue water navy that can support our allies anywhere in the world. Nuclear propelled submarines extend that capacity and enhance it. It also means that any belligerent nation that attacks Australia can expect retaliation rather than a zero response.

The extremely small size of the Australian Army shows it has no plans to invade anyone or instigate hostilities.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Well, if Russia makes a claim, we know it’s true!

If they make the claim and a rapidly far right-wing American publication run by the military and secret police doesn't attempt to contradict it, do you think there is some truth to it?

Either way, @Ingvar is right. Diesel electric subs are quieter, harder to detect. Infinitely shorther range and can't dive as deep. Smaller so unable to carry the same amount of offensive ordinance but definitely quieter.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

RobToday  05:13 pm JST

> Either way, @Ingvar is right. Diesel electric subs are quieter, harder to detect. Infinitely shorther range and can't dive as deep. Smaller so unable to carry the same amount of offensive ordinance but definitely quieter.

Diesel electric subs are only quieted than nuclear when the subs are running on electricity.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

It is planned that the first nuclear submarine could be in the fleet in 2040. If So Australia will be the eighth nation to operate nuclear submarines after US, Russia, China, UK, France, India and Brazil who have already begun construction on their first nuclear sub.

@ Peter14 - Wow - 2040. Thats longer than I thought!

The media here reported South Korea has a nuclear sub programme in the works so we will likely be behind them at least? Clearly its an enormous and time-consuming national project.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@ Peter14 - Wow - 2040. Thats longer than I thought!

The media here reported South Korea has a nuclear sub programme in the works so we will likely be behind them at least?

It takes the UK around ten years from beginning construction to commissioning for one of their current Astute class subs. Australia will take even longer with their first, and they must get a design and tool up, so yes it will take a long time to get the first one in the fleet unless the first is built in the US.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Diesel electric subs are only quieted than nuclear when the subs are running on electricity.

Hmmmm ok. They use diesel to generate electricity which powers the vessel. Unless they are resting on the sea floor, they are always running on electricity generated by diesel.

Regardless, what does Australia want to do with nuclear powered subs?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Regardless, what does Australia want to do with nuclear powered subs?

Submarines are just expensive toys to play hide and seek. I'm sure the Japanese are wondering when they can get their nuclear-powered sub, the Fukushima-Maru.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Regardless, what does Australia want to do with nuclear powered subs?

The same as any other nation that has them or is getting them. To protect itself and its allies anywhere it is needed, anywhere in the world. To have more options and more deterrent.

It has as much right as any other nation to utilize such military hardware. It is an Island nation with no land borders to trade through.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Australian economy is doomed as it has kept offending its major trading partner China for the past year. The US, UK and their allies including Japan will never buy Australian imports in the same quantity as China used to due to the population size and the fact that what Australia sold was readily available in the US. Wine, beef and barley industries in Australia are on the brick of collapse as China put a ban on these imports from Australia. China has been getting these products easily from other countries and no one has been buying these from Australia especially the wine which is below standard compared to French / Italian / Chile and even Californian wine. The US, South American countries and even EU has seen an increase in their beef sales to China in 2020 and 2021 because of the ban on Australian imports. So stupid of Australia to bite the hand that fed them and now they’ll suffer the consequences.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Australian economy is doomed as it has kept offending its major trading partner China for the past year

Nah, they are pretty much reliant on Australian iron ore.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

The same as any other nation that has them or is getting them.

Only Russia, China, USA have a significant number. UK and France have a few, largely reliant on US parts. They use them for nukes as UK and France are too small, geographically speaking, too make them safe from a first strike.

Is Australia also going to arm itself with nukes and SLBMs?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Just what the world needs. Another fleet of nuclear submarines. As if that will in any way make the world 'safer'. The USA, a dwindling Empire causing planetary havoc.

Everyone has a right to be armed with nuclear submarines? That is moronic. A world of rising seas, wildfire and plagues. And resources are wasted on nuclear submarines against an illusory Chinese threat.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

@Peter14

The extremely small size of the Australian Army shows it has no plans to invade anyone or instigate hostilities

To invade on its own - yes, too small. To take part in other's invasions, just like a foreign legion of sorts - big enough. The Australian army already did that in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

Just to defend one's waters diesel subs are better, they are much cheaper and easy to maintain. Something like the French order to replace the Collins class subs was a reasonable option. Nuclear subs, particularly a fleet of them, is a sure sign of offensive operations planned for the future.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

...against an illusory Chinese threat.

That belief is filled with peril.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Zhao Lijian, the quintessential spokesman, reading what is written for him, refusing to answer any questions deemed to be critical and with the oratory skills of a lump of granite. A ladder climber in the true sense of Chinese characteristics.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

RobToday  05:37 pm JST

> Hmmmm ok. They use diesel to generate electricity which powers the vessel. Unless they are resting on the sea floor, they are always running on electricity generated by diesel. 

When diesel electric submarines are submerged, they are running off electricity generated by the diesel engine and stored in batteries.

When the boats are surfaced or at snorkel depth, they run on the diesel engine. When the Diesel engine is running, it is charging the batteries.

This is was all covered in the article to which I linked.

Regardless, what does Australia want to do with nuclear powered subs?

Protect itself.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Damn it! Forgot to include the link in the original post; apologies!

https://navalpost.com/nuclear-submarines-diesel-electric-submarines-noise-level/

2 ( +2 / -0 )

China has nuclear-powered and likely nuclear-armed submarines!!!

Yet they're complaining that Australia is building nuclear-powered (but NOT nuclear-armed) submarines?!?!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Protect itself.

Nuclear powered subs are quite obviously offensive vessels. Is Australia going to attack China? If not, who? NZ?

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Your welcome. By the way, whether any life remains on earth if nuclear weapons are deployed depends entirely on the type, number and locations involved.

Oh really. That’s so strategic. I’m sure, as you believe, the countries will only launch 1 nuclear warhead and call it a win.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

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