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Australian police arrest 2 after Captain Cook statue defaced; thousands protest in NZ

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These young hooligans would, I guess, have found themselves quite at home in China during the Cultural Revolution.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Don’t deface statuses, deface racist textbooks

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Historical ignorance = mob rule.

Red Guards = Taliban blowing up the Buddha statues at Bamiyan.

There's no difference between any of these that I can see.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

I am worried that a just and appropiate protest for equal civil rights is turning into an excuse for riots and violence. Your level of outrage and emotion do not justify property damage or any other actions against the law.

It is important to review our history in a critical way, especially in regard to prominent historical figures, whose contributions and/or crimes are often unknown to the large public. However, I would choose education in e.g. explanations right next to such statues, over mob violence.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Taliban blowing up the Buddha statues at Bamiyan. There's no difference between any of these that I can see.

Huge difference, the Taliban's acts are based upon some misguided belief in some god.

These people are protesting against historical (factual) people in history who treated people of color like guano!

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

MableToday 03:05 pm JST

I am worried that a just and appropiate protest for equal civil rights is turning into an excuse for riots and violence. Your level of outrage and emotion do not justify property damage or any other actions against the law.

Drunken English Defence League thugs attack the police in London yesterday 1:

https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1271800253419831297

Drunken English Defence League thugs attack the police in London yesterday 2:

https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1271804427733778434

Drunken English Defence League thug urinates on plaque commemorating policeman stabbed to death by a knife-wielding terrorist.

https://twitter.com/doctor_oxford/status/1271830891900395520/photo/1

A bit of paint on a statue seems mild in comparison.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

@Alfie Noakes

I agree with you, but please do not try to claim that violence, property damage, uncivilized behaviour, etc is only instigated by some right-wing idiots.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Yubaru:

Huge difference, the Taliban's acts are based upon some misguided belief in some god. These people are protesting against historical (factual) people in history who treated people of color like guano!

I think the thing they all have in common is that whatever it is they disagree with, they want to demonstrate their disagreement by obliterating it. And there's no reasoning with them because there's no awareness, no nuance, no historical perspective.

Captain Cook, for example, did not "treat people like guano". Others used what he did to do so, but he did not. He was a sailor, doing a job for his government. By the standards of the time, he was an enlightened man, and during his voyages tried to avoid conflict with native populations wherever possible, as evidenced in his diary. He could not have foreseen or imagined the damage that would have been inflicted on the Aboriginal populations of Australia during the 19th century. He died in 1779, nine years before the arrival in Botany Bay of the First Fleet.

On the other hand, King Leopold of the Belgians was a greedy amoral capitalist who would have been pretty much a Grade A War Criminal if such a thing had existed in his time, whereas Winston Churchill (not mentioned in this article, but his statues haves also been defaced) was a great leader for British people who lived through the war and was a hero, maybe even the hero, of the fight against Fascism, but he was also an old Empire man of his times who didn't believe in Indian independence or in the rights of the Irish to govern their own country. In other words, he was a mixture of good and bad, like most politicians and powerful people.

These people destroying statues imagine that if they'd lived in Cook's time or even Columbus's, they themselves would have been just like they are today, enlightened beings of the 21st century, superior (as they see it) to those who came before. They would not.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Yubaru:

Huge difference, the Taliban's acts are based upon some misguided belief in some god. These people are protesting against historical (factual) people in history who treated people of color like guano!

Actually, these mobs on the street exhibit all the signs of misguided individuals in thrall to a new cult. Theyre very much like the Taliban, or the red guards.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Statues are inert objects incapable of harm-people are thick!

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@BigYen

Very good comment

I am glad you mentioned Churchill. He is a good example for a historical figure to be considered in a more reflective way. Yes, he was powerful and strong leader, but he also held views that are not comprehensible nowadays. Instead of defacing his monuments and throw out ahistorical claims, we should analyse his character, political views and actions in a critical and objective manner to gain historical and social understanding and perspective.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Mobs are mobs regardless of their political stripe: brainless, irrational and dangerous. I pride myself of never being a member of a mob at any point in my life.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

So what's the answer? How do you deal with these "hooligans" and stop them from vandalizing more historical statues?

Don't interfere, for fear of being accused of "police brutality, racism and oppression?"

Dialog won't work as BigYen pointed out, there's no reasoning with them.

And the vandalism, defacing and destruction, etc., continues.......

3 ( +7 / -4 )

So the protestors and demonstrators in Hong Kong are "mob rule".

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Calls are now being made to remove Ghandi's statue in the UK because of his racist views:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53025407

With Ghandi's statue being targeted, we are now almost at the end of the statue toppling stage. The scarier stage is soon to follow.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Big Yen

Cook died in 1779 you write. Yes, indeed, but you failed to mention how he died. He was hit on the head and then stabbed to death while trying to kidnap the King of Hawaii! Not exactly Captain Peaceful.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

zichi:

So the protestors and demonstrators in Hong Kong are "mob rule".

No. We know what the demonstrators in Hong Kong are demonstrating against. They're demonstrating against the threat of having their democratic freedoms, supposed to be guaranteed until 2049, taken away by an autocratic regime that doesn't respect them. Protest for those reasons is sacred, a right enjoyed in every democratic country. These protests, on the other hand, stand for nothing coherent. I'm sure the protesters barely know who some of these people were or what they stood for. I've been a leftie all my life, and I'm embarrassed by and angry with these protesters. I feel they let us all down.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

serendipitous1Today 08:01 pm JST

Cook died in 1779 you write. Yes, indeed, but you failed to mention how he died. He was hit on the head and then stabbed to death while trying to kidnap the King of Hawaii! Not exactly Captain Peaceful.

In response for having one of his boats stolen by the Hawaiians and in an attempt to recover it. Despite that:

The esteem which the islanders nevertheless held for Cook caused them to retain his body. Following their practice of the time, they prepared his body with funerary rituals usually reserved for the chiefs and highest elders of the society. The body was disembowelled, baked to facilitate removal of the flesh, and the bones were carefully cleaned for preservation as religious icons in a fashion somewhat reminiscent of the treatment of European saints in the Middle Ages. Some of Cook's remains, thus preserved, were eventually returned to his crew for a formal burial at sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cook

Obviously to the Hawaiians not exactly Captain Bad Guy, either.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

BigYen

there are no countries which are free of racism. Those with native communities like Australia, Canada have so many decades of oppression against those native peoples.

Australian natives had their children taken away and given to white families or put in care homes to convert them to being white.

The problems of racism have not been resolved in all of the major countries.

If you are white you always wake up white.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Well we cannot exactly make universal deals with everyone on which of the million statues in the world should be honored and which not. Either its open season on all of them or none of them. I say none of them. The only way I see forward is to change the plaques to reflect the truth as best as a democratic vote on said plaques could offer.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

zichi

You will get no argument from me on any of those points. I’d just say that if we’re going to take to the streets to express our point of view, it has to be focused and informed and have a clear objective. It also has to avoid giving ammunition to those who oppose our point of view. In my opinion these demonstrations fail to meet some or all of those criteria.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Ignorance knows no borders.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

BigYen

but you also need to accept people have had decades of daily experience of oppression and in the end an event like the killing of George Floyd becomes a firework which explodes.

I myself have two adult black daughters so I fight against every aspect of racism has I have done for more than 50 years. My father also raised me to fight against racism.

But after 50 years I see very few real changes. I don’t have hope to see it in the future.

You also seem to be grouping all the protestors and demonstrators into one group. There have been many peaceful protests.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Statues are erected by governments rarely by the consent of the people. There is a need to involve the communities when deciding to honour someone.

Kings, queens racist leaders. We the people should get to decide.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

But after 50 years I see very few real changes. I don’t have hope to see it in the future.

What exact changes arw you looking for? Utopia doesn't exist. Racism is endemic to the human condition. You can't legislate it out. All you can do is decide not to be a victim and take control of your own life. All western countries have laws preventing discrimination in terms of housing and employment. What else do you want? Laws that force us to hold hands in a circle and sing kumbayaa? Teaching you kids to fight racism is guess what? Teaching them racism. Morgan Freeman said stop talking about it. Imagine if all the kids didn't hear about it?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Morgan Freeman said stop talking about it. Imagine if all the kids didn't hear about it?

But in reality it’s not like that. When they walk out into the street the racism hits then right in the face.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

You don't represent the people. You are part of an loud, aggresive, intolerant minority.

these days I’m in the majority.

The whole British honours system shrinks like Cow BS, Like the medal of the empire. I look forward to the day the monarch system is abolished. The unelected House of Lords gone. Statues of former leaders all gone.

on this forum I have a voice

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

But in reality it’s not like that. When they walk out into the street the racism hits then right in the face.

No it doesn't. That's your perception and it naturally leads to confirmation bias. People with this mind set are the actual ones perpetuating racism. Great job of keeping racism alive for another generation.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

How many CEO’s of the Fortune 500 are from the ethnic minorities?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

these days I’m in the majority.

You aren't.

Most people want to be left alone. Most people don't want this type of activism thrown in their face.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

No it doesn't. That's your perception and it naturally leads to confirmation bias. People with this mind set are the actual ones perpetuating racism. Great job of keeping racism alive for another generation.

so when my black daughters hit the streets and are confronted by racism they are suppose to just ignore it because according to you that’s only a perception. When they are denied opportunities because of the color of their skin they should ignore that because that’s only a perception.

When people mouth off and call them names they should just ignore that.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

so when my black daughters hit the streets and are confronted by racism they are suppose to just ignore it because according to you that’s only a perception. When they are denied opportunities because of the color of their skin they should ignore that because that’s only a perception..

Give concrete examples of your daughters hit with racism and being denied opportunities.

When people mouth off and call them names they should just ignore that.

Yeah.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

All you can do is decide not to be a victim and take control of your own life. All western countries have laws preventing discrimination in terms of housing and employment. 

> Look what happened to George Lloyd when he was taking control of his own life.

>

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Look what happened to George Lloyd when he was taking control of his own life

People of all races are killed by the police. Look it up if you dare face facts. You have know way of knowing what was in Chauvin's mind. You're the one seeing a white guy kill a black guy. Some of us saw a police officer abuse his power. Was it racially motivated? I don't know; it yet remains to be proven. Was it a clear case of police brutality? Absolutely. Meanwhile, go ahead and inject racism into every interaction between whites and blacks. Were the black cops in Atlanta who assaulted the students racist? Were the latino cops who brutally murdered kelly Thomas racist? Maybe. Were the white cops who killed Tony Timpa in the same fashion as George Floyd racist? Who knows.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Give concrete examples of your daughters hit with racism and being denied opportunities.

I guess you must be a sleep in a cupboard somewhere that you need to request examples. There are thousands every single day. The media is full of them.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

I guess you must be a sleep in a cupboard somewhere that you need to request examples. There are thousands every single day. The media is full of them.

Uh uh.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I guess you must be a sleep in a cupboard somewhere that you need to request examples. There are thousands every single day. The media is full of them.

That means you can't provide any.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

And again, you are completely choosing to ignore the fact that you posted misinformation.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

That means you can't provide any.

No it does not. I don’t need to because everyday there are thousands of racist examples found in the daily media.

no one answered my question how many CEO in the Fortune 500 are from ethnic minorities.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

So what's the answer? How do you deal with these "hooligans" and stop them from vandalizing more historical statues? 

Don't interfere, for fear of being accused of "police brutality, racism and oppression?" 

Dialog won't work as BigYen pointed out, there's no reasoning with them.

And the vandalism, defacing and destruction, etc., continues.......

Its a problem. The left outright lies, twists the facts and default hobbles any opposing opinion with accusations of racism, bigotry, fascism, etc etc. We all know the score. And a ton of projection is involved - what they accuse others of is exactly what they themselves are - just look at Antifa. They make Hitler’s SA look like Sunday picnickers. And as for the racism accusations, all you have to do is be black and disagree with their leftism and you’ll be inundated with racial slurs and abuse. But this is all the leftist playbook - accuse your enemies of exactly what you do.

People are waking up though now. The latest leftist insanity is just too crazy to ignore. Mental illness.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Protesters in Auckland carried Black Lives Matter signs and marched through the city's central district towards the U.S. consulate, chanting "Shame"

It’s a shame there are people insisting that it’s necessary to raise some people over others. Supremacy doesn’t promote the cause of equality under the law.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

How Much Racism Do You Face Every Day?

Collectively, the 101 black teens participating in the study reported more than 5,600 experiences of racial discrimination over two weeks. That boils down to an average of more than five instances per day for each teenager. That’s more than 70 over two weeks.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/racism-african-americans-quiz.html

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Collectively, the 101 black teens participating in the study reported more than 5,600 experiences of racial discrimination over two weeks. That boils down to an average of more than five instances per day for each teenager. That’s more than 70 over two weeks.

This does not provide any details of the racism you claimed your daughters face as soon as they leave the door. It also states that it is data related to African-Americans, so the US, not the UK.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

My post at 9:20pm was a reply to BigYen.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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