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Australians stunned by Minneapolis police shooting of woman

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An the US further alienates itself and proves it is outright lunacy not to reign in guns and implement further gun control. Instead, you have these cops, who once again had body cams off for some reason, go trigger happy on the people who call them in, and just like with many other people they shoot and kill, they won't be charged. Hopefully this shuts down tourism and locals finally feel a bit of a pinch in the pockets.

And the police have released ZERO details on why the shooting occurred. Takes time to make up a story, I guess.

23 ( +28 / -5 )

You said it. Of course this time the officer is black so he'll probably get convicted, unlike all the white officers who did the same thing. Lock them all up imo.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

Not enough info to make an armchair expert opinion...

3 ( +8 / -5 )

An the US further alienates itself and proves it is outright lunacy not to reign in guns and implement further gun control.

We already have enough gun control laws in place.

Instead, you have these cops, who once again had body cams off for some reason, go trigger happy on the people who call them in, and just like with many other people they shoot and kill, they won't be charged. Hopefully this shuts down tourism and locals finally feel a bit of a pinch in the pockets. 

It won't, especially tourists coming out of Asia.

And the police have released ZERO details on why the shooting occurred. Takes time to make up a story, I guess.

Thats because they're still investigating we won't know for awhile, it would be seriously irresponsible of the police to come out with surmise and guesses. You want a full and detailed investigation to determine the exact cause of what happened.

-36 ( +5 / -41 )

We already have enough gun control laws in place.

The DATA proves otherwise. The right to kill overrides the right to live.

Shot dead for reporting a rape

31 ( +36 / -5 )

Tuesday's front-page headline in Damond's hometown Sydney newspaper summarized the reaction in blunt terms: "AMERICAN NIGHTMARE."

It takes the shooting of a white woman for the nightmare to finally frighten people. Horrific. On every level.

Once again, the trigger happy NRA fascists and their drooling adherents will insist that there isn't a problem but it's plain to see that the US is on tipping edge.

I am hopeful that travel boycotts take place to bring home the message of dismay the rest of the world feels.

Yes, that means the US will be further isolated but just maybe, some good might come out of it.

22 ( +25 / -3 )

Of course this time the officer is black so he'll probably get convicted, unlike all the white officers who did the same thing

Might want to check your facts there. Black police get off on shootings as well. Police getting away with shootings is not a racial thing.

25 ( +29 / -4 )

The officer is Muslim who has had complaints lodged against him by other women, so unfortunately for the left this incident will be more difficult for them to politicize.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

The officer is Muslim who has had complaints lodged against him by other women, so unfortunately for the left this incident will be more difficult for them to politicize.

The officer's skin pigmentation or religious leanings are not of importance.

This was yet another murder of an innocent in the US. Another lesson in the horrors of guns and those who adore them.

12 ( +18 / -6 )

Well, you go to America at your own risk. The risk of getting executed on the street like in some sort of chaotic warzone is well known

17 ( +20 / -3 )

Well, you go to America at your own risk. The risk of getting executed on the street like in some sort of chaotic warzone is well known

Agree dcog. Wish the Australian govt had the balls to issue official travel warnings aimed at citizens traveling to the us. Last year young aussie baseball player Chris Lane was the victim of a random drive-by shooting in Oklahoma. Might not please DT & NRA lobbyists but who cares.

Let's not beat around the bush, America's not safe. Nothing wrong with foreign govts warning their own citizens of the inherent risks of traveling to the us i.e drive-by/random shootings, trigger-happy coppers etc.

17 ( +19 / -2 )

It's not just US cops, everywhere in the world they're above the law and always do a "thorough" job of investigating themselves cough.

That said, I can't see this one being swept under the rug in light of her whiteness, his blackness and the general story we've read so far. If the shooter does go to gaol, expect the BLM movement to kick off violently.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

On the face of it, this incident sounds really, really bad. Perhaps a thorough investigation will reveal that there was a mitigating circumstance, but let's face it, that is not likely.

When I was in college there was a student shot and killed by police. The student was trying to stop violence by other students. When the local sheriffs drove up, one of them opened up with his firearm before finding out what was going on. The student trying to restore peace was, as I said, shot and killed. After a two year investigation, the officer who killed the student was invited to resign. He was not tried for murder, he was simply asked to go to work for some other law enforcement agency. Reminds me of how the Catholic priests who are found to have been abusing children get moved from one parish to another, without ever solving the problem.

19 ( +19 / -0 )

but what happened was not the everyday norm, not even close.

But gunshot deaths are the everyday norm!

21 ( +23 / -2 )

Reading more about this on other sites they quoted the driver as saying he was shocked when his partner opened fire across him, with a suggestion of multiple shots.

https://heavy.com/news/2017/07/mohamed-noor-justine-damond-ruszczyk-minneapolis-police-officer-somali-mohammed/

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I like guns and I love to hunt, you don't, I get it,

No bass, I don't think you do get it. You've told us before you have a passion for killing and that is why you like to hunt. This is not someone enjoying a recreational wildlife bloodbath, it's a supposedly trained member of the police force, supposedly charged with keeping the peace and protecting the public, supposedly armed to help him do that job. And he shot an unarmed, innocent woman dressed in pyjamas who was seeking his help.

But not the family of congressman Steve Scalise

And what if Justine Damond were a member of your immediate family? Would you still just shrug your shoulders and go off into the woods to enjoy shooting another Bambi?

but what happened was not the everyday norm

The Washington Post reported Damond is one of at least 524 people fatally shot by police in the US this year. Today 18th July is the 199th day of 2017; that's an average of over 2.6 police killings per day. Sounds pretty 'everyday' to me.

26 ( +28 / -2 )

If a loved one of mine were shot, that would not change my mind on the 2nd Amendment.

The cowboy mentality just won't go away. The right to bear arms, read: lethal weapons. A gun in every home. A civilized nation - huh? The citizens need them to defend themselves against reappearing militias from centuries ago. Killing a fellow citizen once in a while is OK in US logic. Law enforcement officers pulling the trigger on innocent people is OK too. Collateral damage. Shoot first, ask and answer questions later. Where are the answers being asked about this latest homicide by uniforms you wish you could trust? And all of this has nothing to do with b4f his right to bear arms. Yeah, right. Keep supporting the arms industry America - and shoot you bambis and crows or whatever and an occasional human. Never mind the victims that fall by the way - collateral damage.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

answers to questions

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Any chance of some details on the actual shooting, rather than just tabloidesque handwringing?

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Nothing will change as long as guns are loved and glorified. I remember watching a 'history' program on TV when I lived in the US about firearms. The gravel-voiced narrator was telling us about various firearms and their evolution in almost erotic terms. It was completely sickening.

When people are in love, it's hard to rationalize with them.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

So what about knives? Can a civilized nation carry knives and if we got rid of guns, the knife rate assaults would go up

how many can you kill with a fully automatic assault weapon compared with a knife. Would young children kill themselves or others with a knife compared to those deaths by gunshots?

Another poor argument from someone putting the right to kill before the right to live.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

I'm not sure this is a gun issue. The police in almost every country carry guns yet they somehow manage not to shoot the unarmed citizens who ask them for help.

I think it's more to do with the macho, superhero, military disciplinarian culture that American police seem to follow.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Around 1.4 million people have been killed using firearms in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011.

1,400,000 people.

That’s insane.

15 ( +17 / -2 )

One of the "worst most rediculous shootings" I have ever heard of! Why are these American Cops not trained better to avoid killing so many innocent people!

7 ( +7 / -0 )

More information has come out.  The officer was a Muslim Somali immigrant apparently hired to bring more diversity to the police department and represent the local Somali community on the police force.  In his short time on the force numerous complaints had been filed against him about his behavior and temperament, but he was still on duty.  Once again, we find that political correctness destroys lives.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

@zichi - I don't own firearms to defend myself any more than I have a baseball bat or large kitchen cleaver to defend myself. I've never seen a firearm "go off" without a human involved.

@ListenToTheTruth - America is a big place. I can quote stats about other ways that people here (or elsewhere die) too. 2,091,288 deaths were caused by vehicles in the USA since 1968 (1968-2016). In 2014 alone, 155,526 people in the USA died from lung cancer. According to the CDC, 610,000 people die in America due to heart disease yearly. That is just scary.

I'm not trying to say that deaths related to firearms aren't an issue in America. What I'm trying to point out is that there are more important problems there that should be tackled to have a greater impact.

I don't have any understanding how a 31 yr old Somali-American cop could shoot an unarmed Australian-American woman talking to his 25 yr old partner with both police officers sitting in their vehicle, in a nice neighborhood. Why would either cop even have their weapon out? Seems this is a terrible accident or the cop just went crazy.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I'm no fan of guns but what's the solution to the problem posed in this particular case? Not even the police should be allowed to carry guns?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I understand and I'm with you on that, but that has nothing to do with me or my rights to own and use a firearm, none!

You can't have a handgun in Japan. How can you protect yourself if you are a potential crime victim in Japan? What if someone attacks you with a knife or tries to run you down in a truck?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

This shooting will make people even less likely to call the police in the US for any reason.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

This story will be buried by the press in America because it doesn't fit the narrative. Despite the anti-gun angle the victim is white and the shooter is minority and especially because he is Muslim. Reminds me of the Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom murders in Tennessee. An incredibly horrific inter-racial murder that was largely ignored by the national press. Doesn't support the narrative so puff - it isn't important to look closely at the shooter.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

As an Aussie i think this copper was a bit trigger happy by the sounds of it. News said he "Discharged his pistol in the cabin of the police vehicle and past his mate." Anyone with gun training knows this is not the done thing. Hes also in trouble for some other un police like behavior. And im not going to pull the race or religious card out of the pack as i think he was just the wrong guy for the job by the sounds of it.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Can someone enlighten me please, how are gun laws even remotely connected to this shooting?

Police in nearly every nation carry guns.

America has a problem with bad police. The gun laws are not the issue. American police are trigger happy - this has been a problem since the early 1990's or so. They are increasingly militarized and increasingly breaking the law in order to enforce their own perception of justice regardless of what the law actually is.

Legal gun owners in the US are probably the safest most ethical people you will ever meet in your life. They will defend you if you're in danger, and they'll help you if you're in trouble. You will rarely find a legal gun owner in the US who acts like a criminal. Statistics prove this, but if that's not enough, take a trip to the southern states of the US and see what hospitality is like yourself. They'll treat you well.

I can't say the same for American police these days. There needs to be federal oversight and regulation on usage of firearms by police. The laws should be decided at a federal level - this will require a constitutional amendment. It is long overdue.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

paradoxboxToday 02:57 am JSTCan someone enlighten me please, how are gun laws even remotely connected to this shooting?

Police in nearly every nation carry guns.

America has a problem with bad police. The gun laws are not the issue

Finally an intelligent and accurate line of thought. We do have problems related to the police.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

don't have any understanding how a 31 yr old Somali-American cop could shoot an unarmed Australian-American woman talking to his 25 yr old partner with both police officers sitting in their vehicle, in a nice neighborhood. Why would either cop even have their weapon out? Seems this is a terrible accident or the cop just went crazy.

I agree, given the facts that you outlined, this situation is pretty hard to get a grip on. There is absolutely no evidence of any kind of altercation between the victim and the responding officers and no apparent reason for the police officer to fire his weapon. Another aspect of this shooting that is unusual is the fact that the shot that killed Justine Damond was fired from the passenger side of the vehicle, pass the officer in the driver's seat and through the driver side door before striking the victim in the abdomen. Honestly, this sounds like an unintentional discharge with tragic results ie. a terrible accident.

I'm not too strong on the crazy angle. If you look at the facts, as we know them, about Mohamed Noor he really doesn't seem to be a good candidate for the title of "crazed, cowboy, killer cop".

http://www.startribune.com/what-we-know-about-mohamed-noor-minneapolis-police-officer-who-fatally-shot-justine-damond/435018163/#1

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Due to police killings, Japan should issue a travel warning about going to the USA. The number stands at 543 for 2017. The wise person will avoid contact with American police at all costs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/

http://www.newsweek.com/how-many-americans-do-cops-kill-each-year-480712

4 ( +6 / -2 )

In his short time on the force numerous complaints had been filed against him about his behavior and temperament, but he was still on duty. 

I've read of three complaints against him, one resolved and two outstanding. Are there more?

I'm not sure we can read much into that. I don't know about Minneapolis, but in Chicago between 1967 and 2014, 125,000 complaints were made against 25,000 different police officers.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

You want to know the root of the problem here? You want to know why this doesn't happen in other modern societies? It all stems from the complete lack of gun control. In countries like the UK and Australia, police do not have in the back of their heads that every person has access to a gun. When you get stopped by police, they are under no assumption that there is a gun in the car. Now, in the US every idiot and their cousin has access to a gun. Every time a police officer is called out, they have to prepare themselves for the reality that a gun is accessible to everyone involved. Combine this with racial profiling, lack of training and fear and you have police shooting at everything that moves.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Hopefully this shuts down tourism and locals finally feel a bit of a pinch in the pockets.

Smith - By locals do you mean my fellow Minnesotans? Minneapolis and Saint Paul are not exactly known as tourist destinations. Duluth likes to think it is and Rochester knows that its Mayo Clinic is a good lure for health tourism...

In other words chances are any shut down in tourism from outside of Minnesota is going to be relatively small.

but it's plain to see that the US is on tipping edge.

Toasted - Tipping edge of what? I have seen a lot of hyperbolic statements from people who no longer live in the USA or have never lived in the USA about violence in our society.

*Around 1.4 million people have been killed using firearms in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011.*

1,400,000 people.

That’s insane.

ListenTheTruth - Not really, the USA averages around 2-3 million deaths per year from all causes combined.

One thing I can say as someone who lives near where this incident took place that the Mayor and Police Chief don't really have any way they can justify or explain why the officer did what he did. It has basically been a dear in the headlights situation for both of them since news of this incident broke.

Some additional information but the BCA, known as the bureau of criminal apprehension, is in charge of the investigation. They are separate of the Minneapolis police/law enforcement. They are meant to act as an independent investigation force. Because it is the BCA doing the investigation means that the Minneapolis Police force doesn't have any details or information about the incident according to the Mayor and the Police chief.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

US has some serious "NO GO ZONE" for civilian it seems , not because of terrorist or war but because of the police itself, seriously this must be addressed.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

And the reports of multiple shots, and no weapon recovered?

One scenario.

Bang. "Oops, I didn't mean to fire!"

"Well, you better finish the job. Do it good. Now get rid of the gun, and erase the cams."

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The Police killing this "innocent Woman" is absolutely disgusting!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The officer was a Muslim Somali immigrant.... Once again, we find that political correctness destroys lives.

"Political correctness" is a two-way street. Right-wingers will take solace in the racial background of the assailant while conveniently forgetting their own racial affinity to other officers who have or will commit similar acts.

Being a cop in America is tough. I am in no way excusing this incident, but the prevalence of guns requires that cops view any individual approaching them as an existential threat. But then, discussion of the ubiquity of guns in America broaches PC. How many politicians are discussing this? How many are diverting to "dangerous foreigners"?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

American police are trigger happy

....because they are afraid of afraid of trigger happy non police.

Legal gun owners in the US are probably the safest most ethical people

...they have the right mentality. But too many don't- like Michael Dunn and Curtis Reeves who are from the south.

The laws should be decided at a federal level

I agree on that part and have national registration of all guns and all sales be checked including person-to-person and gun shows to get rid of the loopholes. And ban semi autos since there is no practical use for them except mass murder (see Orlando and Dallas below).

They will defend you if you're in danger, and they'll help you if you're in trouble.

It often doesn't work out that way since look at what happened at the Orlando night club shooting (they had armed guards) and look at what happened with five very armed and very trained cops got gunned down in Dallas. Being armed to keep you safe is a myth in too many cases and ends up causing more problems. Gun control is the solution (including the ban on sales of new semi autos)

take a trip to the southern states of the US and see what hospitality is like yourself.

If you were in Orlando on June 12, 2016 or in Dallas on July 7, 2016 (both in the south). You would think different.

Most Americans who have handguns have them because they enjoy having them. One point of proof is when you talk to them and they talk about their "awesome" guns (back in the States) like it's their cool car they have stored in their garage and they can't wait to get back home to drive it.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

You want to know the root of the problem here? You want to know why this doesn't happen in other modern societies?

What is it you guys don't get? The US is modern just like any other country, but we value our 2nd amendment. That's not going to change, nor should it. All this notion that the US has to be like everyone else is ridiculous!

Now, in the US every idiot and their cousin has access to a gun.

Rather insulting. Not true, in the majority of States you need to have background checks and the process is not as simple as you think, I can't speak for all States, I'm not familiar with all the laws, but in California, it's a bit more tricky. It took me over 3 weeks to get mine with extensive background, physical and mental tests.

Every time a police officer is called out, they have to prepare themselves for the reality that a gun is accessible to everyone involved. Combine this with racial profiling, lack of training and fear and you have police shooting at everything that moves.

Here we go again, not even close to the truth. For the life of me, I don't know why the left spins this issue out of orbit every single time and to the extreme.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Right-wingers will take solace in the racial background of the assailant while conveniently forgetting their own racial affinity to other officers who have or will commit similar acts.

Cut down on the MSNBC and CNN. You are letting your extreme political bias overwhelm any semblance of common sense.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

any semblance of common sense

Please define common sense when it comes to gun issues

6 ( +7 / -1 )

What is it you guys don't get? The US is modern just like any other country, but we value our 2nd amendment.

You don't seem to get that those two statements are contradicctory.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

And that's a major problem. There needs to be a national registry.

Strange and why? You want a national registry for guns, but not when it comes to voter ID? You guys are too funny.

Cut down on the MSNBC and CNN. You are letting your extreme political bias overwhelm any semblance of common sense.

I think that is the main problem for all this hysteria. Fear overtakes rationality, which breeds prejudice, misunderstandings and intolerance.

But not Japan. There are no guns here.

Ok, so what's your point? I am registered by the State of California and Texas to hunt. Japan has nothing to do with this.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

It is so senseless, I am dumbfounded.

The facts coming out make no sense. An officer with three disciplinary actions against him shoots her from within the car. No cameras were on. She's in pajamas and made the call. She could not have looked threatening in her pajamas. How do you hide or carry a weapon with pajamas? The only thing that could make sense is suicide by cop, but that doesn't fit in any way. Just senseless.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The only thing that could make sense is suicide by cop, but that doesn't fit in any way. Just senseless.

Agree. I have three hypotheses, two possible, one ridiculous.

He was on prozac or antidepressants.

Recently divorced and angry at women, he reacted thinking this "white woman" was accusing a Somali.

He was some sort of Somalian Manchurian Candidate.
-5 ( +2 / -7 )

I don't want either, but I want a national registry of nutters who should not have guns. Maybe limit the sale of guns to authorized distributors.

I don't think that's an unreasonable request. I actually agree with you.

@Nishikat

 I am registered by the State of California and Texas to hunt. Japan has nothing to do with this?

What does this comment have to do with the topic of this article?

That when it comes to Gun registration, the left demands it, but when the right demands people registered for voter ID, the left give excuses or tries to justify why they shouldn't, hypocrites, that was the point for bringing it up. I just want fairness, nothing more.

This should be about the shooting of an innocent woman by police. It is not a gun rights/gun control issue or other partisan pet peeve offshoot.

We already expressed grief and sadness and said, how tragic this was and shouldn't have happened in the manner it did, so what else should we talk about?

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

I'm not sure this is a gun issue. The police in almost every country carry guns yet they somehow manage not to shoot the unarmed citizens who ask them for help.

I agree. Seems like the police hired some unqualified guy to add diversity. I don't know why everyone is talking about gun control other than that they just want to argue. Which is pointless, because people like bass4funk are never going to change their mind even if they have a million negative votes.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

How do you hide or carry a weapon with pajamas?

She had a cell phone.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

That's the risk you run in 3rd world countries.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

That's the risk you run in 3rd world countries.

More like 3rd world neighborhoods

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

America's reluctance to strengthen its gun regulations and its seemingly endless stream of shooting deaths have long confused and concerned Australians. In 1996, Australia instituted tough gun ownership laws following a deadly mass shooting. At the time, then-Prime Minister John Howard warned Australians against following America's lead on gun control.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the case at hand. A police officer shot an unarmed civilian--not the other way around.

And Australians can go jump off a cliff if they're confused and discomforted by America's gun laws. Two different countries with two different histories. The only thing they have in common is that they were both once colonies of the British Empire, and they both decimated their indigenous populations. Australia, where the population is mostly white, didn't have chattel slavery, jim crow, where blacks needed guns for uprisings and to avoid lynchings. They didn't have the civil rights movement where cases of police brutality against blacks dropped because the Black panthers were armed. Australian mothers don't have to walk from the supermarket through hordes of bloods and crips. Australia doesn't have generations of families living in the mountains and the Bayou who depend on guns for meat and survival. And with the police now shooting unarmed civilians left and right, it's best that the American citizenry be armed. All Australians know about America is what they're force-fed on tv. The news only broadcasts the rare cases of lone madmen or the shootouts between gangbangers. The news wants sensationalism, so they don't show the daily number of instances where Americans thwarted crime, protected themselves and their families, because they were armed. These cases far exceed the number of accidents and lone madmen. Look what happens when madmen get behind the wheel of a truck/lorry; look what happens when one gets a hold of a knife. Where are Australians' voices about banning vehicles and knives? There are obviously deeper issues at play. Gun control talk is just scratching the surface and peacocking.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

More like 3rd world neighborhoods

According to the Star Tribune Ms Damond lived in the 5000 block of Washburn Avenue S in the Fulton district of Minneapolis. Google shows this to be a rather nice neighbourhood, with homes selling in the $330,000 to $895,000 range.

If this is a third world neighbourhood, there's no hope at all for the cesspits Mr Noidall describes.

I don't know why everyone is talking about gun control

Because the fact that it's so easy to get guns means that the police have to expect that every citizen they encounter, whether it's a concerned lady in her pyjamas calling 911 on her cellphone or a little boy playing with a plastic toy or driver reaching into his pocket for his driving license, has the wherewithal and intent to shoot. Police in other countries, whether the police are armed as in Japan or unarmed as in the UK, don't have to cope with that fear.

in the majority of States you need to have background checks and the process is not as simple as you think

Still simple enough for there to be over 112 guns per 100 residents, enough for one each for every man, woman, child and idiot with plenty to spare. Australia has 21.7 per 100, Japan, 0.6.

No way this can be counted as gun control.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

According to the Star Tribune Ms Damond lived in the 5000 block of Washburn Avenue S in the Fulton district of Minneapolis. Google shows this to be a rather nice neighbourhood, with homes selling in the $330,000 to $895,000 range.

Another European telling us about America by simply googling it. This whole issue isn't about guns anyway. It's about the failed training of police officers, police in America becoming akin to the police forces in Brazil. This citizen was unarmed, but the this particular media outlet dangled the bait, and the Europeans, already primed with anti-Americanism, bit the hook, line, and sinker. Once again, this has nothing to do with America's gun laws. It's about the police killing civilians. If the same underlying problems were happening in the UK, we'd be hearing about cops billy clubbing blokes to death.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Still simple enough for there to be over 112 guns per 100 residents, enough for one each for every man, woman, child and idiot with plenty to spare. Australia has 21.7 per 100, Japan, 0.6

And compare that amount of guns to the actual accidental shootings, irresponsible gun owners, or whatever, you'll see that America's gun problem is blown (no pun intended) way out of proportion by the media and extreme left-wingers.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

this has nothing to do with America's gun laws. It's about the police killing civilians.

...who they have every reason to believe may well be armed to the teeth. It surely encourages a mentality of 'shoot before you get shot'.

If the same underlying problems were happening in the UK

...but they aren't. The bobbies in Britain do not face the same 'every encounter with a member of the public might be my last' situation.

the Europeans, already primed with anti-Americanism

What is 'anti-American' about wanting American friends and family to be safe?

compare that amount of guns to the actual accidental shootings

OK. I apologise for using quick-and-easy Wiki:

US: gun-related homicides, 3.43 per 100,000: suicides, 6.69: unintentional, 0.18: undetermined, 0.08

Australia: gun-related homicides, 0.16 per 100,000: suicides, 0.74: unintentional, 0.02: undetermined, 0.02

Japan: gun-related homicides, 0.00 per 100,000: suicides, 6.69: unintentional, 0.01: undetermined 0.01

So, nine times more accidental shootings than in Australia, 18 times more than in Japan. Though why focus on 'accidental' killings? It's surely the number of nutters ready to actually aim and fire with intent to maim or kill that bothers the cops. Over 21 times more likely to happen in the US than in Australia. Have to admit, I don't see your point. You seem to be agreeing with the rest of us that more guns directly equals more gun-related deaths.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

who they have every reason to believe may well be armed to the teeth

This is your subjective reasoning. There's no substantive evidence that cops believe every encounter with the public will be violent. Think about the number of encounters that don't end with violence compared to the ones that do. By your logic, every encounter would end with the cops killing people. Also, you're blaming the victim here and millions of innocent people in order satisfy your agenda. I'm not a right-winger, but it's because of this kind of liberal-trash thinking, that ignores the millions of responsible gun owners, groups them together with a few nut jobs, ignores hunting and land traditions, which are totally different than in England and Australia; your thinking is part of the reason we have Trump. Besides, do your history. The right for citizens to bear arms is deeply rooted in English tradition. Remember, the colonists were English. Also, the US has a bigger population than the countries you cited. I'm sure if you consider that and do the math, Americas gun statistics aren't as bad as you try to make them out to be.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Only the US police can turn OFF cameras, shoot to kill innocent people (unarmed) and not be arrested right away... only been placed on administrative leave, no wonder why it will never stop and continue for ever.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The US is modern just like any other country

Parts of it, certainly. Parts of it are not. Attitudes regarding guns, militias and people who appear "different" garner resentment, fear and hatred. One only has to look at the reaction to the Dem candidate in Arizona; even the Repub senator came to her defence, so shocking the hatred was.

Nobody wants to send UN forces in to keep the peace on American streets but this is a nation riven apart by domestic conflict, resulting in unnecessary deaths on a daily basis. Of course the BAME community are only too aware of the horror from so-called trained professionals. Professionals who are lauded whenever they kill black people. Until a white woman is murdered by a black American officer. Is he being lauded, now?

No, he is perceived as "other" and therefore the logic must be fashioned to reflect this; in order to maintain the sanctity of guns, the right to kill and the problem with anyone not of caucasian heritage.

In the Washington citadel, the President remains peculiarly quiet on this. He has exploited the great divide in order to get where he is but he may find his enabling of hatred causing a backfire eventually.

But then again; Trump is a symptom of the greater malaise. The corruption of the founding fathers' vision, over the last couple of centuries. This is the tragedy of modern America.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Still simple enough for there to be over 112 guns per 100 residents, enough for one each for every man, woman, child and idiot with plenty to spare. Australia has 21.7 per 100, Japan, 0.6.

Very interesting, I understand and whatever the laws are of these countries concerning gun law, I get it, but it has nothing to do with us or our 2nd amendment.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@Toasted Heretic

My god, what a bunch BS. Do you write that BS just to make your day fulfilling?

Attitudes regarding guns, militias and people who appear "different" garner resentment, fear and hatred.

Obviously you've never stepped foot in the good ole USA. Otherwise you would know that we all work together, everyday, 24 hours, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. This "resentment, fear and hatred" you speak of; go to any continent, country, city or town, and you will find it. Yes, you will find it more among multicultural inner city folk, not so much in Tokyo though. How many cars were burned in Paris on July 14th? I guess Europeans are new to the whole multicultural thing and don't have the equality mind set that we Americans have.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

There's no substantive evidence that cops believe every encounter with the public will be violent.

I never said they did believe that. I said they have every reason to believe it - more than one firearm out there for every man, woman and child.

By your logic, every encounter would end with the cops killing people

Not every encounter. But certainly far too many, as the figures show: an average of 2.6 police killings per day so far this year. (By your logic, since not everyone who drives after drinking causes an accident, let alone kills anyone, there should be no drink-driving laws and those who regularly crawl behind the wheel three sheets to the wind are merely observing their right to share the occasional glass of Christmas sherry with their maiden aunt.)

you're blaming the victim here

Absolutely not.

Hell, she wasn't even American, most likely cared twaddle for your precious Second Amendment rights.

the US has a bigger population than the countries you cited. I'm sure if you consider that and do the math, Americas gun statistics aren't as bad as you try to make them out to be

I don't try to make them out to be anything, I just quote the numbers. Do the maths yourself - numbers per 100,000 rule out the 'but we have more nutters than other countries anyway' argument.

If I wanted to 'make the statistics look bad', I would give the horrendous absolute numbers, not rates per 100,000.

US 3.43 per 100,000 = 11,000

Australia 0.16 per 100,000 = 38

Japan 0.00 per 100,000 = 0 (actually in the single figures, low enough to register 0 in terms of per 100,000)

Obviously you've never stepped foot in the good ole USA. Otherwise you would know that we all work together, everyday, 24 hours, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

That's not what my friend bass says, and he knows all about the US of A, he's spent all his life there apart from the times he was somewhere else. He's told us here about whole areas of the country full of (and I quote) 'gangs, druggies, shootings, filth', with 'large gang population, drugs and violence' that well-educated, law-abiding affluent Americans like himself make a point of never going to because they don't want to 'worry about safety'. Rather hard to work together everyday with people you are afraid of, isn't it?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

I'm stunned that the officer who fired the shots is not required to speak about his conduct at any kind of mandatory meeting. Instead, he lawyered up and clammed up.

I'm as right wing as they come, but I am really worried about the state of policing in the USA. The cops in general seem poorly trained, paranoid, and overly militarized.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

As this was a police office that shot her, gun restriction was not the issue. The issue is that a rabid gun culture lives in fear. Officer probably keeps his job too. USA continues to show the world it's broken

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The issue is that a rabid gun culture lives in fear. 

The issue is that a rabid gun culture lives in freedom.

There. Fixed it for you.

I wonder if the Germans or Swedes had a free gun culture, would they be the rape capitals of Europe?

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Notice the lack of Social Justice Warriors here. They don't have an answer for the common man, only BS and parroting of the MSM against Trump.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

My family and all my friends have NO fear of getting "shot".

I'm sure Ms Damond felt the same. Until she didn't.

Maybe if they take a trip into the multicultural inner city their odds go up

How do you square that remark with we all work together, everyday, 24 hours, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.? When you say we all, you mean just the nice Americans?

Ms Damond, by the way, did not live in the multicultural inner city.

You can twist the statistics of gun violence to your favor

Sadly, those statistics are to no one's favour.

I reccomend "Braveheart" by Mel Gibson

I just startled the dogs out of their nap by laughing out loud. If that's where you get your history from, Gawd 'elp yer, lad.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Yeah right. My family and all my friends have NO fear of getting "shot".

Well you can/they can have no fears while you remain in Japan and not something that requires even a second of thought.

But in America, maybe you/they have no fears but that does not mean you/they won't get shot and the chance of being shot is more than winning the state lottery. But I wouldn't recommend anyone in America not to have any fears but then not always being fearful either.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I wonder if the Germans or Swedes had a free gun culture, would they be the rape capitals of Europe?

Americans rape all over the globe. It's not a competition.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Clarification; some. Not all.

There are many Americans who regard the rest of the world as equal. The attack on democracies - Chile Sept 11th 1973 was CIA led. For one example. Many Americans realise the horror that occured there.

But then; the CIA was respected by the USA. Odd, eh?

The whole world is at odds with the rampant increase of gun adoring US adherents. That includes those who stand up to the NRA and its acolytes.

A divided nation will continue to kill indiscriminately. Where to from here?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Perhapse the solution would be to get rid of the police and make it mandatory that everyone over the age of 5 is armed at all times. The choice of semi or full automatic can be left up to them; we don't want to limit peoples choice!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Police getting away with shootings is not a racial thing.

For the shooter, no.

For the victim, yes,

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

-- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.ab2e4540d9ed

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It's a shame but the divide in America is noticeable with abberations like gated communities and whatnot. And then just watch almost any segment from Congress, the Senate or the White House. Elderly white men, for the main.

Wander down the social strata and then observe middle class, working class communities. Where is the mix? In the UK, you have the mix. It's evident on the streets where you live, your friends, colleagues, neighbours - rich and poor right in the same block. Gated communities are a rarity.

But back in the US; it sometimes feels like apartheid never went away. And the tensions just build and build and build. But the right wing comfortable folk will tell you that everything is fine in the good 'ole US. Whilst pointing to their firearm, or stocking up on ammunition.

In 1996, Australia instituted tough gun ownership laws following a deadly mass shooting.

It would be a start, wouldn't it? Heck only knows that there's been enough mass shootings in the US.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Silliness. Get back on topic, please.

Pity you can't see the silliness in your own 'guns is good' argument.

Good thing you guys don't have guns, you'd be more irresponsible than Americans.

Mmm. Sounds like you're saying more guns does mean more deaths. Who'da thunk it.

why don't you post the number of crimes thwarted because of guns

You mean the number of potential crimes by people carrying guns, thwarted by people carrying guns? Maybe fewer/no guns in the first place would mean fewer crimes needing to be thwarted?

Like others who try to defend having a society awash with guns, you end up slagging off your country, painting a picture of America as a country teeming with violent criminals who are kept under some approximate semblance of control only by the threat of death by bullet. And you accuse me of anti-Americanism!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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