Australians told restrictions must stay even as new virus infections slow

How do people feel about these apps? I want to trust the government and support the efforts, but it seems liek a little much to ask......If they say 40% need to use it, I think nearly 100% of people will just hope someone else agrees to make up that 40%.

Central to the government's strategy is a controversial new mobile phone app that will track users' movements to allow contact tracing in the event of an outbreak of coronavirus.

The government said it will need at least 40% of the country's population to be signed up to make it effective.

Unlike many countries, Australia took the attitude that any death from this virus is unacceptable. Ask anyone who has lost a family member or close friend if they think the "herd immunity " path is a good idea.

For starters, no-one can even say if there is even such a thing as immunity against this virus.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison last week said there would no easing of Australia's restrictions for at least four weeks, and several state premiers on Monday urged the public to keep to the social distancing rules.

Well stated Mr Prime Minister - you are obviously looking out for the health and welfare of your citizens...

It's unfortunate that some other leaders failed to take the pandemic seriously until tens of thousands of their countrymen had died - and continue today to play politics with the virus in a futile attempt to help their doomed re-election chances...

Unlike many countries, Australia took the attitude that any death from this virus is unacceptable. Ask anyone who has lost a family member or close friend if they think the "herd immunity " path is a good idea.

Millions of people die from communicable diseases every year. To say "no death is acceptable" is basically childlike and dishonest. We all die sooner or later. What matters is the quality of life - and too few people stop to consider that being deprived of basic human rights and economic shutdowns have costs themselves that go well beyond the cost of lives lost. Emotional appeals to not refute basic logic and principles.

the time lag is 14-21 days so yeah, you leave it in place. It's called the preparedness principle. It garners most governmental policies in real countries (not USA)

commanteer:

Unlike many countries, Australia took the attitude that any death from this virus is unacceptable.

If that is the case, that is sad. Because this is not an adult attitude, this is a childish one. There is no free lunch. Every action has consequences. Preventing some deaths by locking people in and damaging the economy must be weighed against the consequences of doing that. If you do not do that, you think like a child. I want candy now!

stewie:

For starters, no-one can even say if there is even such a thing as immunity against this virus.

If that is the case, we have to learn to live with it. And that means stopping the house arrests and returning to normal life.

We need a balanced approach.

Increased awareness and practice of high standards of sanitation, hygiene, hand washing, encouragement of social distancing especially from the vulnerable, isolation for people who are actually sick. Tighter restrictions for hot spot areas. Etc.

We cannot bring the economy and society to a standstill every flu season which kills 1/2 a million worldwide each year.

People and children are dying because they can’t get into a hospital unless they are suspected of having Corona.

https://japantoday.com/category/national/Hospitals-turning-away-sick-people-as-coronavirus-cases-surge

https://www.theage.com.au/national/nsw/doctors-fear-for-children-amid-pandemic-panic-20200419-p54l62

If you do not do that, you think like a child.

You would probably think differently if your parents, family or friends had died from this pandemic. Or if you were in the hospital on a ventilator fighting for your life.

stewie: - For starters, no-one can even say if there is even such a thing as immunity against this virus.

WilliB - If that is the case, we have to learn to live with it.

Immunity? Live with it? What are these posts about? A virus is an organism. It’s eats and poops. If it does not have a host, it can not survive. The only way to beat this virus is to stay away from each other and let it die out. No host = No virus!

Millions of people die from communicable diseases every year. 

Sure, lets do away with doctors altogether.

We all die sooner or later. 

No point in saving someone who finally will die someday, right??

Do these posters forgo medical treatment whenever they fall sick, do they not take time off when they are not well?

According to they apparent beliefs(heavily influenced by Donny , no doubt) medical treatment is useless because everyone will die sooner or later!!

Wow, the responses more or less confirm the comment above...

You would probably think differently if your parents, family or friends had died from this pandemic. Or if you were in the hospital on a ventilator fighting for your life.

No I wouldn't. No more than I would demand that all bees be exterminated if a family member died from a bee sting. That's just an appeal to emotion when we need to use logic and consider consequences.

Sure, lets do away with doctors altogether.

Another emotional reaction. Nobody is suggesting doing away with doctors, or even reducing doctors.

We all die sooner or later. 

No point in saving someone who finally will die someday, right??

Again, the same. Nobody suggests not saving lives where they can be saved. However, we should not take poorly thought out actions that cause more death than they prevent.

We need a balanced approach.

Absolutely right, and telling that anyone would vote that down.

According to they apparent beliefs(heavily influenced by Donny , no doubt) medical treatment is useless because everyone will die sooner or later!!

Back to that old song and dance.... Let's stay on topic shall we? People who are panicked and frightened are easily manipulated. Consider that.

Australia is doing a good job compared to most countries - whether that's because of the measures taken or just luck, I don't know. Cases increased by only 0.2% yesterday. But it's better to be safe than sorry. If a second wave starts, all that effort will be lost. Just hang on in there for a little bit longer.

Stoked to hear about the Aussies' fair dinkum progress in tackling Covid-19 Down Under. She'll be right, mate.

How do people feel about these apps? I want to trust the government and support the efforts, but it seems liek a little much to ask......

I completely agree, even if we are already highly tracked by private corporations. This is too easily abused by governments.

"Electronic Surveillance is the greatest leveler of human privacy ever known.“

Justice Douglas dissenting in US v. White, 401 U.S. 745 (1971).

If they say 40% need to use it, I think nearly 100% of people will just hope someone else agrees to make up that 40

I think this is highly likely.

@Chip Star

How do people feel about these apps? I want to trust the government and support the efforts, but it seems liek a little much to ask......

I completely agree, even if we are already highly tracked by private corporations. This is too easily abused by governments.

I also agree.

@serendipitous1

Stoked to hear about the Aussies' fair dinkum progress in tackling Covid-19 Down Under. She'll be right, mate.

While it's great that many precious lives of those mostly over 75's close to death anyway have been saved, the toll on the rest of society might outweigh the merit of such tough restrictions, as many experts are saying. Countries like Sweden are taking more balanced approaches for this reason.

Regarding having sympathy for potential victims. I do agree that this is a very emotional and difficult matter.

Bear in mind that the median age of the Covid-19 deaths in Australia is 79 years old. The average life expectancy for Australians is 82.5 years.

My very elderly mother would be at serious risk to her life if she got this or any other flu like virus. But my family cannot demand that the whole country be put on lock down, millions lose their jobs, the economy gets wrecked therefore jeopardizing the lives, health and well being of millions of others much younger with their whole lives ahead of them for her sake who has only a few months or years left at most.

We should protect the elderly and other vulnerable people with common sense social distancing, sanitation and hygiene and other measures, but don't wreck the rest of society in the process.

No one I know is downloading that app. Even the technologically incompetent can see that allowing the government free reign to harvest your data and track your movements isn't a smart move. There aren't any protections in place at home to stop the government doing whatever they want with that information.

Australians are smart people. As long as the govt follow smart advises, the risks can be reduced to minimal.

Rosalind Harris said "No one I know is downloading that app."

Is Prime Minister Scott Morrison your "No one" ?

Is Minister for Foreign Affairs Marise Payne your "No one" ?

No I wouldn't.

I assure you, you would. You can come back from an economic slump. You can come back from losing your job or your business, however important it is to you and however hard it might seem. Especially if the whole world is in the same situation and the government does what it has to do to help you come back from whatever difficulties were created by the pandemic.

What you can't come back from is dying from that same pandemic.

It's slowing because the government took decisive and effective action. When the rate of infections starts declining (even better if the decline is rapid) it means restrictions can be lifted so much sooner. Do right and the economy can get back up on its feet quickly. Do it wrong a country can be right back at square one and will have to implement restrictions again.

HonestDictator, do you have to teach smart people how to do the job properly ? Wrong audiences, as simple as that.

Worldwide average age of Covid-19 deaths: Over 75

75% of the dead had underlying health conditions such as diabetes, Lung Disease, Cancer, Immunodeficiency, Heart Disease, Hypertension, Asthma, Kidney Disease, and GI/Liver Disease

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

Concerned Citizen said "Worldwide average age of Covid-19 deaths: Over 75"

What is your concern ?

@Akie

Concerned Citizen said "Worldwide average age of Covid-19 deaths: Over 75"

What is your concern ?

Please read all my other comments on this thread. You will see my concerns there. Have a great evening.

@Concerned Citizen

Worldwide average age of Covid-19 deaths: Over 75

Were did you get this one and how was it calculated ? For one was it with or without triage in place ?

75% of the dead had underlying health conditions

You understand that that is pretty average underlying condition we are talking about ?

9,5% of the population suffer from diabetes : https://www.statista.com/statistics/271464/percentage-of-diabetics-worldwide/

In between 5 and 10% of the population suffer from asthma : https://www.medscape.com/answers/296301-7945/what-is-the-worldwide-prevalence-of-asthma

And so on.

Regarding economy, you understand that even the life of people old or people with health issue have a value ? For Australia, it is $182,000 per year (as of 2014) : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life#Australia

The inaction has also economical consequences : infected people will pop out, and having unhealthy and contagious people also has a cost.

The perception of the measure taken or not by authority and affiliate has a cost.

and so on ...

Perhaps you should consider the Australian government has a more global approach of the situation and its impact ; and not only regarding economic.

This virus has been around since September of last year. They first blamed it on vaping. I think the economy should open in stages. But, there is not way you will have zero deaths or illness.

Members of the 5 eyes are jumping at this opportunity to use the pandemic to decrease personal liberty.

tracking people’s movements, social interactions, online contacts and phone data will not stop the virus.

social distancing, hand washing and not touching your face don’t need apps.

apps that identify infected people could lead to which hunts.

Back to that old song and dance.... Let's stay on topic shall we? People who are panicked and frightened are easily manipulated. Consider that.

Ignorant people who reject facts are easily manipulated!!!!

@Flute

@Concerned Citizen

Worldwide average age of Covid-19 deaths: Over 75

Were did you get this one and how was it calculated ?

Here's the link.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

Here's another to show the median age of Corona deaths in Australia is 79.

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-at-a-glance

My point is that we should have a more balanced approach rather than whole countries be put on lock down, millions lose their jobs, economies get wrecked therefore jeopardizing the lives, health and well being of millions of others much younger with their whole lives ahead of them for sake of those who have only a few months or years left at most. We should protect the elderly and other vulnerable people with common sense social distancing, sanitation and hygiene and other measures, but don't wreck the rest of society in the process.

For what it is worth, I read in The Guardian, a few weeks ago, that the average age of those who died in Northern Italy to Covid-19 was 78.5.

Speaking as a senior citizen, I am glad that this pandemic is mostly sparing the young.

@Concerned Citizen

Your link is only about New York. That is not worldwide. And that do not state how it was calculated, as for example was triage in place or not.

As stated before, the underlying condition are pretty average so vulnerable people to protect will amount to a significant part of the population.

You seems to assume that the consequence of having the virus go free in something like half the population which is not to be protected will save economy ... were do you get that from ? Protecting will have a cost. Not protecting will have a cost.

Japan is not going for mass quarantine and declared state of emergency 2 weeks ago. I doesn't look like hat saved economy.

A society is not just about its economy. You can wreck one even if the economy is going well.

And is the actual dominant economic model so good that it need to be saved ? According to you, it seems that in order to save itself in time of crisis it will not hesitate to crush lot of people. Is not it already wrecked ?