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3 dead, 6 wounded in shooting at Michigan high school

67 Comments
By MIKE HOUSEHOLDER

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67 Comments

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I was reading that the NRA is pushing for a bill to allow responsible teens (must have at least 2.5 GPA) to carry just like adults. It's in the 2nd amendment shall not be infringed

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Obscene.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

There are already strict gun laws in place, they just need to be enforced, once that happens you will see a sharp decline in shootings.

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

There are already strict gun laws in place

No there aren't. Countries like Japan have strict gun laws. Americas are the most lax gun laws of any first-world nation, by far.

they just need to be enforced

Yeah? Which laws are not being enforced? I hope you don't think we're going to believe those lies just because you never bothered to fact check them when they were put forward as notes for your right-wing talking points.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

No there aren't.

Yes, there is.

https://keepgunssafe.com/do-you-have-to-register-a-handgun-in-michigan/

if you severely enforce the laws you can bring down a lot of unnecessary deaths.

Countries like Japan have strict gun laws.

Ok, that’s fine, but we’re not talking about Japan, we’re talking about the United States, we have the Second Amendment and Japan doesn’t and also Japan can do whatever it wants to do, it’s their country, but for Americans who were born with having the Second Amendment we have the absolute right to own them as long as you’re a law abiding citizen. And that is not going to change, no matter what the left once or tries.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

The US needs stricter federally mandated firearms laws.

The sale or transfer of a handgun to an under 18-year-old is federally prohibited. There is also the federal Gun-free School Zones Act of 1990.

Of course, without knowing how the shooter got hold of the gun, we can't really say what laws need to be tightened. Personally, I'd say all of them.

There are too many easily accessible firearms in the US.

There certainly are. How can they get rid of them, though?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Another day, another shooting … this nonsense has got to stop.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

It's just way too easy for a kid to get their hands on a gun in the U.S. And as long as that continues, these mass shootings will go on and on and on. Americans say that the gun is not the problem. OK, then if it's not the easy access to guns, then it must be that the people handling these weapons must be really psycho and have no value for human life.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Another senseless tragedy. If “rumblings” about potential trouble were happening, why weren’t school officials contacted and proactive, preventative measures taken with law enforcement ? Many unanswerable questions at this point.

- “investigators would be looking through social media posts for any evidence of a possible motive.

the parent of a 12th-grader, told AP that there had been rumblings of trouble at the school.

“He was not in school today. He just said that ‘Ma I don’t feel comfortable. None of the kids that we go to school with are going today,” -

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Just another day in the land of the 'free' and the home of the 'brave'. Nothing to see here.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

for Americans who were born with having the Second Amendment we have the absolute right to own them as long as you’re a law abiding citizen. And that is not going to change, no matter what the left once or tries.

This is the problem. Gun owners politicizing the issue and making it all about “they” want to take your guns. Parents of dead kids want to take away your guns. Doesn’t matter who they voted for.

At least Alex Jones won’t be stirring that pot anymore. Others should follow suit.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

The regular day in a sick country and its ridiculous nonsense love for guns..

I noticed in other posts of yours that everything that involves America you keep saying “what a sick country”

Let me clarify that I’m a EU citizen and not from the US.

And I’m also against the carrying rules of guns.

Saying that your comments are never constructive and only to bash everything that is American and praise whatever is Japanese.

Therefore such comments are toxic and malicious.

America has it’s problem yes,but so does Europe and believe or not even Japan.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

23 states that have lenient gun laws are New Hampshire, South Carolina, Georgia, Louisiana, Maine, Texas, Montana, West Virginia, Alabama, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alaska, Kansas, South Dakota, Arizona, Kentucky, Missouri, Idaho, Wyoming, and Mississippi.

And yet, 11 of the most largest cities have the most violent gun crimes and shootings are in Philly, Chicago, Oakland, Detroit, San Francisco, Miami, Baltimore, DC, Portland, Seattle, NYC.

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

And yet, 11 of the most largest cities have the most violent gun crimes and shootings are in Philly, Chicago, Oakland, Detroit, San Francisco, Miami, Baltimore, DC, Portland, Seattle, NYC.

Yup. The whole country is a gun-filled cesspit.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Yes @KY8:29am as you’ve stated before, your American country has its problems:

- “My country is so insecure, violent and dangerous, people there can be killed for nothing.” -

How will you vote and/or will you be running for office yourself now to unseat the unjust as and change the gun laws?

- “With pathetic conservatives in senate, there will never be strict laws with their beloved guns.” -

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If it's so difficult to take the guns from gun lovers' cold, dead hands, couldn't they make it more difficult to buy ammunition at least?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yes this is sad for the parents of the dead and wounded, but as the US public refuse to take any meaningful measures to rid the country of this plague of firearms I find I have waning sympathy for yet another eminently preventable school slaughter.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The 2nd amendment of 230 years ago was never intended to arm civilians 24/7 in their daily coming and goings.

The security of the fledgling states in that era necessitated a civil militia to come to aid.

Fast forward to 21st C and now a NRA backed agenda has warped the original text to suit it's own business prosperity.

So we get tragic scenarios like that in the article.

People are not always reliable.

Armed people are not always reliable with dire consequences.

US is sinking in it's mire of weapons and many can't see it.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns. Ever notice how many people in America kill people with guns as compared to other countries? America doesn't have a gun problem, America has an American people problem. They're just an extremely murder-oriented people. Look at their TV, it's glorified, and guns are idolized, in 90% of their media, breeding a nation of murderers.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

In many states including my own, one can open carry (just like the cowboys) without a permit. Not that I would ever do something so objectively antisocial and stupid.

No license necessary to openly carry a hand gun who’s very design is to kill people (nope, they aren’t for hunting and the ones carried around aren’t for target shooting. They are by design intended to put a lot of lead down range).

Not exactly “strict gun laws”...

7 ( +8 / -1 )

America has an American people problem. They're just an extremely murder-oriented people. Look at their TV, it's glorified, and guns are idolized, in 90% of their media, breeding a nation of murderers.

According to online sources, the US's murder rate per capita is about average. This one has it (5.3) between Greenland (5.31) and Argentina (5.1):

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/murder-rates-by-country.html

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

"I’m shocked."

Why would anyone be shocked? Mass shootings occur every day in the USA - an incredibly dangerous country to live in or visit. Gun obsessed people there do not love children. Its as simple as that.

Its a big shame the cowardly killer was not shot between the eyes by the police.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Unfortunate; they have the fundamental rights; fundamental rights to what: to kill. A fools paradise.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

They're just an extremely murder-oriented people.

No, the majority people don’t and aren’t.

Look at their TV, it's glorified, and guns are idolized, in 90% of their media, breeding a nation of murderers.

Turn the channel and watch more Disney movies, James Bond is extremely possible worldwide so there’s an appetite for guns and violence, that’s why these movies break box office records. The difference between murders in the US compared to other countries without guns, in the US I never have to worry about being a victim of violence.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

I forgot to mention what I usually make a point of mentioning: I am a gun owner in the U.S.

And this is just insane. The country has lost it's damn mind vis-a-vis guns.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

The difference between murders in the US compared to other countries without guns, in the US I never have to worry about being a victim of violence.

Laughable response.

In the incredibly violent U.S., you are far, far more likely to be a victim of violence than pretty much any advanced nation - and most developing nations.

Compare the violent US to peaceful Japan. There is no comparison.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

The only surprising thing is that the body count wasn’t higher than 3.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Its a big shame the cowardly killer was not shot between the eyes by the police.

No trial? Straight to execution?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

in the US I never have to worry about being a victim of violence.

Japan? You can't have a gun in Japan and how do you defend yourself (in Japan)? Also, what happened with Micah Xavier Johnson? Proof that guns can't really protect you. Also, in the Pulse nightclub in Orlando they hade armed guards and 50 people were still killed. Should teenagers be allowed to have handguns with CCP? It's in the 2A.

and yet, 11 of the most largest cities have the most violent gun crimes and shootings are in Philly, Chicago, Oakland, Detroit, San Francisco, Miami, Baltimore, DC, Portland, Seattle, NYC.

Dallas? Micah Xavier Johnson? Patrick Wood Crusius who is a Trump person who shot up the El Paso Walmart and killed over 20?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

It's so funny 2ANRATrump people talk about guns and freedom and then come to Japan with NO guns and they have to use government healthcare

in the US I never have to worry about being a victim of violence.

If someone is coming after you with an AR like Micah Xavier Johnson then there is no chance of survival. He killed five Dallas cops and they had to blow him up with a bomb.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

It's ridiculous to see grown adults say that their shouldn't be controls on guns. Other countries live perfectly peacefully without guns and enjoy the same "freedoms" that America keeps on crowing about......with a TINY percentage of gun deaths.....never mind gun deaths at school!! Scotland had 1 school shooting, where a weirdo member of a gun club went into a local primary school in Dunblane and killed a bunch of primary school kids and their teacher before shooting himself. The NEXT day, hand guns were declared illegal (rifles and shotguns for hunting are still legal but with a rigorous process to get a licence to hold one) and do you know how many gun deaths there have been in schools since then? None. It's a no-brainer.

That's not to say that there wouldn't be big problems during the transition phase if the US did the same. Right now there are simply a phenomenal amount of guns in circulation, both legal and illegal. Getting them all off the streets quickly and efficiently would be difficult and time consuming. But you got to start somewhere. America likes to hold itself up as the beacon of a nation to follow....of course most everyone else knows that the rest of the world simply rolls their eyes and sniggers when our friends from the 50 states roll this trope out...no one in the 1st world wants to copy the US

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Thanks @zichi @RiskyMosaic for clearing up to the otherwise, ‘pixelated’ generalizations & hyperbolic comments made here today by some other, hereby unnamed users and providing simple, inoffensive ‘facts’ about senseless gun violence in the U.S.- “Peace and Best Wishes to ALL”. -

*@8:59am**:“The F.B.I., tabulates crime numbers by almost 16K law enforcement agencies, showed that killings were more widespread, occurring in all regions of the U.S. and not limited to major cities.*

About 77% of reported homicides in 2020 were committed with a firearm, the highest share ever reported, - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/us/fbi-murders-2020-cities.html -

*@9:38am**: “According to online sources, the US's murder rate per capita is about average. This one has it (5.3) between Greenland (5.31) and Argentina (5.1):  https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/murder-rates-by-country.html ” -*

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Firearm Mortality by State

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

When you look at this website make sure to select 2019 in the filter. Then use the filters on the first column of data to arrange the states in order of fewest firearm fatalities per 100,000 residents to the most. You see Massachusetts has the lowest rate of death by firearms in the country followed, surprise, by New York at 3.4 and 3.9 respectively. California comes in at number 7 with 7.2 deaths per 100,000. By comparison Alaska has 24.4 deaths per 100,000 and Mississippi has 24.2. Texas has 12.7 and Michigan 12.1. Maybe gun laws in states like New York and California really do prevent a lot of deaths? Imagine that.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The difference between murders in the US compared to other countries without guns, in the US I never have to worry about being a victim of violence.

Laughable response.

I know. I have been shot twice while driving (not injured, just damage to the vehicle) and another time shot at while out jogging. I could have been armed to the teeth all three of these times and it would not have done me any good for the simple reason I didn't have the slightest idea who was shooting at me or from where. On one occasion I didn't even realize I had taken a round until I parked the car at home in my garage and saw the bullet hole. Between the stereo and road noise I never heard it hit.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Should teenagers be allowed to have handguns with CCP? It's in the 2A.

Is it? As I understand it, the issuing of a concealed carry permit is generally limited to 21 and over. This is definitely the case in Michigan. Although in some places, 18 to 20-year olds can concealed carry in limited circumstances, residence or fixed place of business, for example. For under 18-year-olds it's more limited than that.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The 2nd Amendment was written at a time when guns had to be reloaded through the barrel after each shot, first with gunpowder, then wadding and then a ball. It all had to be tamped down with a rod. Fire one shot, then repeat the process. Two rounds per minute maybe if you're good. Guns were crafted one at a time and each was unique and expensive. There was no such thing as interchangeable parts. Those along with mass production on assembly lines would not come along until the Civil War. The Winchester repeating rifle would not appear until the Civil War. There is no distinction in the 2nd Amendment between civil and military grade weapons because in that era there was no difference. One could read the 2nd Amendment to say Americans have a right to any kind of "arms", up to shoulder fired missiles, heavy machine guns, even mortars. The US Constitution doesn't define "arms". The courts seem to be ok requiring a Federal license to own a fully automatic rifle but give a pass to semi-automatic rifles of the same caliber with the same large capacity magazines and very nearly the same rate of fire. Often the only difference between a legal weapon and a prohibited one is that the legal one is semi-automatic and the illegal one is fully automatic. Why is that? One may still pull the trigger fast on that semi-auto weapon and spray a lot of bullets but the semi-auto weapon is legal. Strange if you ask me. It would be interesting to see how James Madison and John Adams would feel about the 2nd Amendment today in light of the capabilities of modern automatic and semi-automatic weapons and the high murder rate in the US. I just have this feeling they would have written that amendment a little bit tighter if they could have seen the future of firearms.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The perverse obsession with guns is a sickness.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

The 2nd Amendment was written at a time when guns had to be reloaded through the barrel after each shot, first with gunpowder, then wadding and then a ball. It all had to be tamped down with a rod. Fire one shot, then repeat the process.

Not entirely.

www.rockislandauction.com/riac-blog/assault-weapons-before-the-second-amendment

It would be interesting to see how James Madison and John Adams would feel about the 2nd Amendment today in light of the capabilities of modern automatic and semi-automatic weapons and the high murder rate in the US. 

I'd wonder the same about the First Amendment given smartphones, twitter and the amount of mis- and disinformation and hate speech floating around. My guess is that they would still stand by it.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

No there aren't. 

Yes, there is.

https://keepgunssafe.com/do-you-have-to-register-a-handgun-in-michigan/

This argument shows how well balanced a nation the US is (with intelligence at the opposite end).

2 ( +2 / -0 )

America has it’s problem yes,but so does Europe and believe or not even Japan.

The difference being that the problems Europe and Japan have tend not to have so many folk being killed by other folk.

Any problem is a bigger problem if there's a gun involved.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

That is a very misguided quote.

No, it’s not.

So no armed cop is ever killed? No armed civilian is ever killed?

Meaning on our farm, we really don’t have anything to worry about Except for feral hogs, coyotes, sometimes wild cats, the occasional skunk and wolves.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

The difference being that the problems Europe and Japan have tend not to have so many folk being killed by other folk.

Dunno, getting stabbed or beaten by thugs or in Japan’s case jumping in front of a train to me is nothing to boast about.

Any problem is a bigger problem if there's a gun involved.

If you’re on the receiving end of violence, it really doesn’t matter

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Dunno, getting stabbed or beaten by thugs or in Japan’s case jumping in front of a train to me is nothing to boast about.

Yes, being a victim anywhere is not good, and I'm sure you have plenty of personal anecdotes of being stabbed and beaten repeatedly by thugs in Europe and Japan, and unable to defend yourself coz you weren't allowed a gun; but look at the numbers. The US's problems kill a lot more people than either Europe's or Japan's problems.

Even suicide rates, which I expect you're considering a major Japanese problem, are more or less on a par; 14.7 per 100,000 in Japan, 14.5 in the US.

https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/suicide-rates.htm

Whether it's death by gun violence, refusing to get vaccinated and/or wear a mask, or simply dying younger than necessary due to lack of medical care, the US leads easily.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Yes, being a victim anywhere is not good, and I'm sure you have plenty of personal anecdotes of being stabbed and beaten repeatedly by thugs in Europe and Japan, and unable to defend yourself coz you weren't allowed a gun;

Relax, relax…..

but look at the numbers. The US's problems kill a lot more people than either Europe's or Japan's problems.

We have more people for start.

Even suicide rates, which I expect you're considering a major Japanese problem, are more or less on a par; 14.7 per 100,000 in Japan, 14.5 in the US.

It’s all relative for the population size, it’s extremely high in Japan

Whether it's death by gun violence, refusing to get vaccinated and/or wear a mask, or simply dying younger than necessary due to lack of medical care, the US leads easily.

And the people that work for the bigger corporations and independent companies have some of the best healthcare in the world.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

We have more people for start.

Wrong. There are more people in Europe that the US.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Wrong. There are more people in Europe that the US.

Probably not, Biden made up for that this year.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

We have more people for start.

Did you not learn about rate in school? The US has higher murder rates than either Europe or Japan, and a suicide rate roughly the same as Japan's.

It’s all relative for the population size

That's right. Relative to the population size, Japan and the US have similar suicide rates.

And the people that work for the bigger corporations and independent companies have some of the best healthcare in the world.

And what proportion of the total population do they represent?

Are you saying that it doesn't matter if poor people/self-employed people/poorly educated people die younger than they need to through lack of medical care? Poor Americans shouldn't really be counted as Americans?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

For under 18-year-olds it's more limited than that.

Then that's against 2A. Kids (yes under 18) have a right to protect themselves too. Can't they carry a semi auto Glock like adults? They should conceal carry in HS and I'm sure the NRA supports this. With this school shooting only a good kid with a gun could have defeated this person.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Did you not learn about rate in school? The US has higher murder rates than either Europe or Japan, and a suicide rate roughly the same as Japan's.

I did, but it’s the other way around. For the size of this nation for the population, if you look at the suicide rates in Japan it is essentially higher overall

Are you saying that it doesn't matter if poor people/self-employed people/poorly educated people die younger than they need to through lack of medical care?

Nope, never implied that, but you will always have the poor, it doesn’t matter how much money you throw at them, you will always have the poor, you can help them as much as you want, but you will always have the poor, they need medical care, so I think the government should focus on specifically those people that need care and leave the rest of us alone that are happy with our healthcare.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

leave the rest of us alone that are happy with our healthcare.

Japan? Everyone has the same insurance provider. You cannot choose your health insurance provider just like you cannot choose to have a gun in Japan. The poor and rich pretty much have the same healthcare in Japan.

 if you look at the suicide rates in Japan it is essentially higher overall

WRONG! It's a higher rate in the USA

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Then that's against 2A.

No, the Second Amendment has always restricted certain groups of people from gun ownership, such as minors, those convicted of felonies and certain misdemeanors, drug and controlled substance addicts, some mental health issues and others.

Kids (yes under 18) have a right to protect themselves too.

They do. See Kyle Rittenhouse. They are just not allowed to carry concealed handguns in public, for the most part.

And I see the rest of your post as sarcasm. I agree that those are silly arguments.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

No, the Second Amendment has always restricted certain groups of people from gun ownership,

WRONG!

Shall not be infringed

(2A)

It says nothing about age in 2A. In fact some kids under 18 fought in the American revolution. It is their right just like any kid is allowed to write his or her own blog (freedom of speech)

They are just not allowed to carry concealed handguns in public, for the most part.

Against 2A

See Kyle Rittenhouse.

So? But didn't work out well for Michael Dunn when he was threatened with loud music. Rittenhouse is now a Trump hero and will be a millionaire soon (He is going to sue CNN and other news outlets for real) and has appeared on Hannity and Tucker. He also met Trump. He's a 2A celebrity now. And he gets lots of girls now.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

WRONG!

Shall not be infringed

"2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court's opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller's holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those "in common use at the time" finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons."

Supreme Court v Heller, 2008. But if you want to ignore the most important ruling on the scope of the Second Amendment by the supreme court of the country, that's up to you.

So? But didn't work out well for Michael Dunn when he was threatened with loud music. Rittenhouse is now a Trump hero and will be a millionaire soon (He is going to sue CNN and other news outlets for real) and has appeared on Hannity and Tucker. He also met Trump. He's a 2A celebrity now. And he gets lots of girls now.

And? You're just ranting now. None of that proves that under 18 year olds don't have the right to defend themselves, as the Rittenhouse case showed.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

And I see the rest of your post as sarcasm. I agree that those are silly arguments.

Please be specific. Kids have a right to bear arms:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

(2A)

It says nothing about age. How else can kids defend themselves if no adult is around? Or are guns just toys for adults because they like having them [I suspect this is the case - and it's perfectly OK]

2 ( +2 / -0 )

if you look at the suicide rates in Japan it is essentially higher overall

I gave you the numbers; 14.7 per 100,000 in Japan, 14.5 per 100,000 in the US. A difference of 0.2, that's essentially the same, not 'higher overall'.

you can help them as much as you want

...unless that involves healthcare, in which case you've got yours covered so why should you pay for them, right? You don't see it as a problem that the US has a lower life expectancy than the rest of the developed world?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Except you do not. Population of America: 329.5 million (2020). Population of Europe: 746.4 million (2018)

A very big difference.

Not when it involves the suicide rates

40 million Americans can not afford basic healthcare. While all 746 million Europeans have Universal Healthcare.

A very big difference.

OK and I also have full coverage and your point?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

nishikat,

Does that mean underage kids cannot write blogs either?

The First Amendment is not unlimited, either. Anyway, has the Supreme Court ruled on that? Because they've ruled on the scope of the Second Amendment, and decided it has certain limitations.

How else can a kid protect himself at the park when there is no good adult with a gun around?

They can't CONCEALED carry. In many states, a minor's possession of a long gun is perfectly legal, although the exact statutes differ.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

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