Autocracy is 'evil', Taiwan president says after China threatens death for separatism

The government in Taipei says Taiwan is already an independent country, the Republic of China.

I totally agree!!

The CCP has never ever ruled Taiwan.

But, my understanding is that of the two major parties in Taiwan, one wants reunification, one does not.

And the reunification party claims around 40 to 50 % of the vote.

Not cut and dried.

I wouldnt want my country to go to war on an issue where 50% of the population is not onboard.

Autocracy is 'evil'

Absolutely right.

Taiwan independence separatists.

The CCP has never controlled Taiwan. Therefore, its people and their democratically elected government cannot "separate" from the PRC.

China, which views Taiwan as its own territory

With absolutely zero basis. Just like China's claims in the South China Sea, East China Sea, Indian border etc. etc. etc.

"I also want to call on China to face up to the existence of the Republic of China and have exchanges and dialogue with Taiwan's democratically elected, legitimate government," he said, using Taiwan's formal name.

Yes, this is obviously the decent, correct, and natural course of action.

Unfortunately, Xi is a dictator who does not live in the real world, and who thinks he can just steal whatever he likes. He's wrong.

The exchanges and dialog will happen after the CCP falls.

China threatened to impose the death penalty in extreme cases for "diehard" Taiwan independence separatists.

Is that because Taiwanese independence separatists have minds of their own, and beliefs different from those of the all powerful CCP, and if so does having those beliefs 'hurt the feelings of the CCP Chinese. '

A Death penalty seems a little extreme to me but then the CCP under Xi are an extremist nation. See Xinpiang, Hong Kong, and Tibet for further examples of extremism, see also the extremist states the CCP align themselves with, those states, e.g Russia, North Korea and Iran tend to be places where opposition, including those holding beliefs different from the beliefs of the ruling caste are killed, too.

Important to observe that Taiwan lacks UN recognition and is not an independent country by any legitimate measure.

Important to observe that Taiwan lacks UN recognition and is not an independent country by any legitimate measure.

Very authoritarian, Russian-like position to take on the matter.

Negative, nothing-like or a position.

Taiwan lacking UN recognition as a sovereign state is a provable fact.

Taiwan lacking UN recognition as a sovereign state is a provable fact.

Taiwan is a sovereign state.

Russians have a bit of a problem accepting sovereignty.

Important to observe that Taiwan's people elect their own leaders. It's something independent states, or at least democratic ones, do. I think you said Taiwan was a state yesterday. Sounds like you're a bit confused. It's alright!

Important to observe that Taiwan lacks UN recognition and is not an independent country by any legitimate measure.

760 UN Plaza, Manhattan, NY, US - can't see a certain flag with all the other sovereign states there.

Important to observe that Taiwan lacks UN recognition and is not an independent country by any legitimate measure.

Ah good to hear that coming from you. The UN also recognizes Ukrainian soveriengty over all of its land currently occupied by Russia. Since that is the measure of legitimacy to you, you must also agree that Ukraine's internationally recognized borders of 1991 are legitimate.

760 UN Plaza, Manhattan, NY, US - can't see a certain flag with all the other sovereign states there.

And yet, they elect their own government.

JJEToday 12:44 pm JST

Important to observe that Taiwan lacks UN recognition

And why is this? Because the autocratic monster next door will invade if Taiwan declares "formal" independence, so everyone just plays along with the "status quo."

China's stance in this regard is part of the very "evil" that Lai speaks of.

and is not an independent country by any legitimate measure.

Yes, it is. It has its own government, laws, currency, territory, armed forces, foreign relations, domiciled companies, and many other facets of an independent country. The only "official" things it lacks are purely due to the Chinese threat.

As ever, the problem is here is China, not Taiwan.

Important to observe that Taiwan lacks UN recognition

No, that is not important at all.

and is not an independent country by any legitimate measure.

Incorrect again. most of the 24 million citizens of Taiwan agree that their country is independant, and they operate daily as an independant nation, just like the members of the UN. Only fear of China, stops others from "officially" recognizing this reality.

Recent research shows that whilst the percentage of people that want independence has dropped the percentage of people that want to maintain the status quo is more than 80% of the Taiwanese population included in the study. So although it's not cut and dried on the question of an Independence declaration it is pretty much so when it comes to maintaining the status quo with the criminals in Beijing. Meanwhile the Chinese government are continuing their propaganda campaign on the mainland, promoting the idea that the ordinary Taiwanese people feel trapped and need to be rescued by China. That's exactly what my lodger from the mainland told me several nights ago when he raised the question of Taiwan with me. I avoid talking politics Swiss the students host from China but we were watching the news on TV and something came up about Taiwan and he told me that social media in China has many posts from people in Taiwan begging China to rescue them from the regime in Taiwan.

Ah good to hear that coming from you. The UN also recognizes Ukrainian soveriengty over all of its land currently occupied by Russia. Since that is the measure of legitimacy to you, you must also agree that Ukraine's internationally recognized borders of 1991 are legitimate.

Well this is awkward for the Russians. Disagree with you, and continue to state that the UN knows what they're talking about, proving Russia is wrong on invading Ukraine, or agree with you that Taiwan is an independent nation, angering their overlords the CCP.

Ahhh... they elect their own government in other breakaway/separatist regions of the world. There seems to be a lack of consistency with regards to these issues.

Meaning, if Taiwan can he shaved off China, why can't the same happen elsewhere...

It wasn't a part of China.

JJEToday 01:02 pm JST

Ahhh... they elect their own government in other breakaway/separatist regions of the world.

I presume you're talking about Eastern Ukraine here. If so, such "elections" don't count when an invading Russian force has a gun to your head, or simply stuffs the ballot "on your behalf."

Taiwan's elections are, in contrast, free, fair, and transparent.

If Taiwan wasn't a part of China, what on earth was it part of then?

He's right of course. The CCP belongs on the ashheap of history.

JJEToday 12:44 pm JST

Important to observe that Taiwan lacks UN recognition and is not an independent country by any legitimate measure.

Important to observe that that matters f all and will be rectified eventually.

GuruMickToday 12:40 pm JST

But, my understanding is that of the two major parties in Taiwan, one wants reunification, one does not.

And the reunification party claims around 40 to 50 % of the vote.

Not cut and dried.

I wouldnt want my country to go to war on an issue where 50% of the population is not onboard.

Do you honestly believe the KMT would push for reunification? Maybe restart the unification council if the children in Peking demand it but that is as far as it will go.

I propose Taiwan doesn’t have a referendum on independence but actually flip it and have a referendum on JOINING CHINA. That way, it’s a clear option to keep the status quo. It would send a clear message to the CCP. But a referendum has its problems too.

JJEToday  01:11 pm JST

If Taiwan wasn't a part of China, what on earth was it part of then?

you need to go back further in time. But then again. Latvia, Estonia,Lithuania, Ukraine, Belarus, you can add to the list, all wanted to leave the USSR. The best thing the UN ever did as a charter was for every country to be a member of the UN, it had to settle its borders. Biggest mistake by the US was to accept the one China policy. Just imagine th rage if Russia said they wanted Alaska back cause they got done over.

GuruMickToday 12:40 pm JST

But, my understanding is that of the two major parties in Taiwan, one wants reunification, one does not.

And the reunification party claims around 40 to 50 % of the vote.

That's a huge oversimplification. It's not correct to say that all KMT voters support "unification" ("re-"unification is a CCP propaganda term) with the PRC, just as not all DPP voters support "independence."

For the KMT, they don't even support "One Country Two Systems" (the only thing on offer from Xi) as a policy. There are at least two reasons for this:

1) Almost none of the electorate supports One Country Two Systems, particularly since it was thoroughly discredited by Xi's Hong Kong crackdown. Were the KMT to campaign on this, very few people would vote for them

2) A majority of the electorate sees itself as "Taiwanese," not "Chinese," and has little-to-no affinity for the mainland. And those that still do are old and dying off. Again, "Chinese-ness" is a vote-loser for the KMT

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/01/16/most-people-in-taiwan-see-themselves-as-primarily-taiwanese-few-say-theyre-primarily-chinese/

JJEToday 01:11 pm JST

If Taiwan wasn't a part of China, what on earth was it part of then?

False logic.

Your (loaded) question assumes Taiwan was "part" of "something" to begin with, which is unnecessary.

KMT's prior policy was for reunification.

Current policy on reunification softened, now favours a reunification under a "one China, two systems " approach , through diplomacy .

Taiwanese people are not all in favour of independence , especially declarations of such.

Brookings Institute figures show a "status quo, ask me later " position for around 35% .

Taiwan doesnt want a war with China.

Behold the National Palace Museum, 4,000 years of "Taiwanese" art and culture. https://www.npm.gov.tw/?l=2

deanzaZZRToday 02:28 pm JST

Behold the National Palace Museum, 4,000 years of "Taiwanese" art and culture. https://www.npm.gov.tw/?l=2

At least it was taken care of and not smashed in the cultural revolution.

GuruMickToday 02:23 pm JST

KMT's prior policy was for reunification.

Current policy on reunification softened, now favours a reunification under a "one China, two systems " approach , through diplomacy .

Taiwanese people are not all in favour of independence , especially declarations of such.

Brookings Institute figures show a "status quo, ask me later " position for around 35% .

Taiwan doesnt want a war with China.

They fear being destroyed by the gorilla. That is different than not wanting to be free of the gorilla's ugly system.

GuruMickToday 02:23 pm JST

Current policy on reunification softened, now favours a reunification under a "one China, two systems " approach , through diplomacy .

It was "one country, two areas" at most and they never agreed on what the one country was. If the KMT ever proposed mainland thugs be allowed into Taiwan to rule, I will eat my hat.

So Isabelle, I can either believe you, or go on The Brookings Institute paper which list diagrams of Taiwanese people intentions and voting patterns over a few decades.

I dont have a position on reunification other than I would'nt go to war when even a third of Taiwan approves of reunification...under some autonomy.

And further reading reveals this country, has been under various colonial rule from Dutch, Spanish, Manchus,

Japanese and Chinese Nationalists., up until 1980's { If I remember right }

I'm afraid the world doesnt recognise Taiwan as an independent nation , and people will surmise that is because of China's influence.

If so, thats what big powers do...get their own way.

Isabelle, would you actually fight in Taiwan for its independence or does this only extend to online commentary

?

GuruMickToday 02:23 pm JST

KMT's prior policy was for reunification.

Yes, its prior policy. Not the current one.

Current policy on reunification softened, now favours a reunification under a "one China, two systems " approach , through diplomacy .

Please point me to the KMT policy document that states this. I can't find it.

The KMT's website says the below, which sounds nothing like One Country Two Systems to me:

https://www1.kmt.org.tw/english/page.aspx?type=para&mnum=105

The vision of the KMT is to establish the Republic of China (ROC) as a free, democratic, and dignified country with prosperity for all.

deanzaZZRToday 02:28 pm JST

Behold the National Palace Museum, 4,000 years of "Taiwanese" art and culture. https://www.npm.gov.tw/?l=2

Behold the Great Wall of China, Forbidden City, Terracotta Army - thousands of years of "PRC" culture.

All Chinese cultural products as are the treasures that can be found in Taipei's National Palace Museum. I do recommend you visit the museum sometime if you haven't already.

GuruMickToday 02:39 pm JST

a third of Taiwan approves of reunification

Where is this "third" exactly? Please provide concrete evidence for this number.

(And if you're talking about the percentage of people that identify as "both Taiwanese and Chinese" that's certainly not the same as supporting rule by Beijing.)

CCP and Taiwan situation is equivalent to North and South Korea. The only difference is that CCP successfully sold their population as a cheap labour for Western industry, while North Korea became isolated state.

GuruMickToday 02:39 pm JST

I dont have a position on reunification other than I would'nt go to war when even a third of Taiwan approves of reunification...under some autonomy.

You can't get 66% of people to agree on what day it is in a democracy but even more than that want to never see a mainland thug ruling over them.

And further reading reveals this country, has been under various colonial rule from Dutch, Spanish, Manchus,

Japanese and Chinese Nationalists., up until 1980's { If I remember right }

Sounds like an excellent argument for it not being part of China.

I'm afraid the world doesnt recognise Taiwan as an independent nation , and people will surmise that is because of China's influence.

If so, thats what big powers do...get their own way.

Then we won't hear one word from you about the big bad US. This is good.

they elect their own government in other breakaway/separatist regions of the world. There seems to be a lack of consistency with regards to these issues.

The government of the Republic of China was established before the breakaway Peoples Republic of China came into existance. You seem confused as to who broke away from whom. To clear that up for you, the PRC broke away from the established ROC. Not the other way around as you seem to think.

And as a breakaway government, PRC do not allow multi party national elections as they do in the other separatist/breakaway regions around the world.

If Taiwan wasn't a part of China, what on earth was it part of then?

Taiwan was part of the Republic of China and it remains so today. Nothing has changed for Taiwan. The Mainland broke away from ROC rule but the island of Taiwan remained in ROC.

KMT's prior policy was for reunification.

Reunification of the mainland to it's (KMT) rule, not to join the PRC. It was never a policy to give Taiwan to the communist forces or to be ruled by the communist CCP.

You jokester, you! haha The PRC is more than 250 times larger in size than the renegade province of Taiwan.

And as a breakaway government

There should be some honest consistency and not cherry picking.

Breakaway provinces/separatist regions everywhere are to be reunited in totality or not.

Breakaway provinces/separatist regions everywhere are to be reunited in totality or not.

So you would support mainland China reuniting with Taiwan under ROC rule if the people on the mainland spoke up for such a thing?

The CCP broke away from ROC, that fact cant be denied.

The PRC is more than 250 times larger in size than the renegade province of Taiwan.

Yes it is larger, so what does that have to do with anything? It has never been at issue.

Breakaway provinces/separatist regions everywhere are to be reunited in totality or not.

Great to hear that you support reuniting the Donbass and Crimea with Ukraine.

*The Republican government fled to Taiwan in 1949 after losing a civil war with Mao Zedong's Communists.*

Last sentence of the article makes it pretty clear despite some crude attempts at rewriting history.

Taiwan is and always has been part of China.

Fact is both ROC and PRC claim officially that mainland China and Taiwan as part of their respective territories.

The fact is Taiwan never surrendered, ROC never surrendered to CCP forces, so the PRC calling Taiwan a renegade province is nothing but spin. They want the reward without the effort. They want Taiwan/ROC without having to pay the price to get it.

Now that the world has helped China grow strong and prosper through decades of investment into China, it is ready and strong enough for a second war, to finish off ROC now, when they couldnt 75 years ago. They will never get Taiwan without a war, and the cost of that could be much higher than anyone in CCP realizes.

Forcing others to your will should have been relegated to the pages of history, but it is making a come back in a big way thanks to a handfull of despotic rulers. Taiwan being in the sights of one man who already controls 1.4 billion people. Still that is not enough for him. I dont think anything short of everyone everywhere, will satisfy his ambitions.