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Baby-faced dad, 13, raises 'broken Britain' fears

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Alfie’s daughter Maisie was reportedly conceived when he was 12. Chantelle’s parents let the lad spend the night with their daughter, 14 at the time, at their public housing unit near Eastbourne, 70 miles southeast of London.

Bad idea. The whole sorry tale reminds me of the scene in My Left Foot where the family matriarch informs her husband their daughter will be gettin' married over the weekend. "Why so quickly?" he naturally inquires. "Well, you know" she doesn't belabor the obvious. He ends the exchange by saying, "Aren't you two a fine pair. The old woman who lived in a shoe and her daughter who couldn't keep her knickers up."

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Sounds like my hometown in Canada.

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Such a shame that this child is now a father. He's responsible, but he's still the responsibility of his parents.

Is this what we're coming to? < :-)

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Yes, Britain is 'broken' socially. The stats speak for themselves. But, those in high positions haven't exactly set an example, have they? The British Royal family is broken. Three out of four of the royal siblings are divorced. Diana and Charles set a bad example of family, married life. Thatcher's son was arrested in Africa and has been barred from entering the USA. Her daughter, Carol Thatcher, recently referred to a black tennis player, insultingly, as a GolliWOG. Tony Blair's 'middle way' also set the tone for the present social mess. He called it 'Cool Britania.' Oh, yes, he managed to collect a nice property portfolio while he was PM.

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You left out Mick Jagger, who was knighted by the Queen. He's fathered seven children with four different women, only two of whom he married.

Whether teenagers mimic the behavior of celebrities, ignoring the difference in financial situation, is a matter of debate. But these are troubling trends.

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Is anyone surprised at this? There was a mother at 11 in the UK a few years back. And does this Duncan Lees have any relation to the story, or is he just some randome they found on the street who'd provide a soundbite?

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Is this really something new for Britain's lower classes?

My impression is that Britain's power comes from NOT being a bunch of cookie-cutter bland hoity-toities, but rather a people who explores every facet of life and leaves no stone unturned. I am inclined to believe this is more of the same rather than some devastating new course. That would be hard to see if you bought the whitewashing of the Victorian past, an era that was essentially ABOUT whitewashing, or all the other eras that got whitewashed as well.

I am also inclined to believe this little chap is not the real father, but a patsy for someone who would get nailed for statutory rape if not for the sly cover.

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The above article may have been written in a simplistically melodramatic style, but in truth it hardly touches on the reality of Britain today. City centres are becoming no go areas at night for all but the young drunks. Some public housing areas are no go zones even to the police at any time of the day or night. To make a single arrest they go in as a group of ten or twenty cars & riot vans, including armed units.

Alfie very probably isn’t the father, though what difference that really makes given that he has obviously had sex with Chantelle along with a number of others. The parents are guilty of child neglect & yet they will not be taken to court to answer for that neglect. Six people (4 in London) were stabbed to death in a single day about 4 or 5 months ago. All the killers will be found & sent to prison, but only for a short time. All this is a snap shot of what is happening to that country. I lived there for 25 years, London, Oxford, Leeds & Manchester. 5 years ago I went back for a one week visit, after 3 days I wanted to change my ticket & get out. The level of aggression even when just shopping in the city centres is incredible. Friends tell me that they have developed a kind of radar for when they are on the street to spot the criminals. Alfie is nothing by comparison to all that is happening. I predict civil unrest within the next five years.

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I think its great he had a kid so young, when the kid gets older they can do stuff together like they were pals. In the wild animals have young ones at 1 or 2 years old, remember people we are nothing but animals.

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With all the other claims to fatherhood coming in - at least three, it sounds like Alfie was just riding the village bicycle. There was always one girl in town who let the boys go 'all the way', usually physically well-developed but mentally a little slow, but they were usually on the pill. This one apparently forgot to take her tablets...

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wanderlust: There was always one girl in town who let the boys go 'all the way', usually physically well-developed but mentally a little slow

Boys often take that view. I guess it makes them feel superior to not only crawl upon her to crow, but also think they tricked her or something? Meanwhile, that girl is enjoying viewing their excitement while simultaneously enjoying knowing who really is the puppeteer.

I noted in the interview that I saw of these two that she knew what financially meant. He didn't. The town bicycles are often more clever than you think. They just are not focused on "boy" knowledge, like what the rules of soccer are, or how a remote control car works.

Another thing to consider is that, for at least a few days, she had most of the world believing baby face was a dada, and many still accept it without question. Nope, she is not dumb, she is just focused on social matters, like most females.

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grafton: I'm an old man and i aint scared of walking the streets.

Strewth, i lived through a world war and thugs like this little git and his tart won't bother me. I give as good as i get, too bleeding right.

The problem is too much benefits given to people when they have kids, and free social workers and that. I paid taxes all my life for people like this, but let me tall you all somethink. It were worse before. 30-35 years ago there was massive race riots, demonstration and civil unrest.

This is somethink that we have dealt with before, the grocers daughter Thatcher sorted it last time, now we need another leader, like Winny to put the country in the right direction.

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Haha, Chantelle's a slapper.

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I'm an old man and i aint scared of walking the streets.

I'm sure the manager down at the Pig and Whistle is reassured to know this!

But I don't think these teenagers, particularly young Alfie, are so calculating that they see a child as a meal ticket for life-long government benefits.

It's more likely they know not a soul who's moved out of the projects, or council houses as they are known in the UK, who would offer any sort of alternative role model demonstrating the benefits of hitting the books hard.

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This story doesn't really surprise me to the say the least. Growing up in the UK during the 90's, I knew of a few girls dropping out of school due to have children at a young age. They also got splashed over the tabloids on a regular basis when of special note came to light.

I think the most shocking thing is that as a UK citizen, who left the British Isles some 6 years ago, I do not wish to go back to what I would consider a lower standard of life. There seems to be a real exodus of Brits at the moment, and on the par of most Brits I have spoken to about it, the whole country seems to be folding. If its not under-age pregnancies, its youth crime or some other nuance.

God Save the Queen....God save our country!!!

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but the mother of the baby really looks three times older than the father...

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I love british men except their drinking habits but come on this is a child, he is not a man how can anybody be sexually attracted to him and get pregnant???

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Whitepocky, Agreed - I left the UK in 1992, have lived in Asia since - mainly in Japan. As part of my employment contract, I have a home leave every 2 years but after the first time returning there, I lost all desire to go back. I'm still in regular contact with more than 50 friends and family members and over the last 17 years since I left - WITHOUT EXCEPTION - every one of them has at some time been a victim of crime including murder, street violence, mugging, burglary, car theft or vandalism.

When I was at school back in the mid 70's I had an old crusty teacher whose favorite phrase was, "The damn country is going to the dogs!". I never did understand what he was talking about until after I moved overseas then returned for home leave.

The country is absolutely falling apart and one day, if I ever end up leaving Japan, I'll be making sure that I do not return there. I find it truly sad that I have to say this about my country of birth.

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Is anyone else holding out the possibility that this is a hoax?

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A hoax? In The Sun? Give me a break!

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Britain has always been "broken", if we are talking about ideals and concepts of what is normal and good. 13 is quite young for a male to father a child, as humans are born quite pre-mature and many male humans are still developing at that age. So social controls are necessary, because being pysically able to "ride the village bicycle" means the that accidents will happen.

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I bet this kid has a second kid before he starts growing facial hair.

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Well, if Chantelle slept with more than one boy she probably wouldn't know who the father is; several other candidates have stepped forward. Their motivation is not to assume responsibility but to enjoy the notoriety (and whatever lucrative "tell all" opportunities it might bring).

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Apparently the wee man is going to have a paternity test to prove he's the father...this is classic Jerry Springer stuff!

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Well.., if it all goes wrong and young Alfie has to join Father's For Justice, at least he'll be able to find a Spiderman costume that fits!

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If you watch Pat Condell you would see Britian is more than just broken. It has America's morals with Holland's tolerance to religous fanatics...

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Horny tarts getting pregnant, Binge drinking teens, Pub fights? I guess since the break up of the Empire Britain has been on a self destruct path turning its violence toward many a native of foreign lands upon itself. Pretty Sad.

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Strewth, these two little tearaways should be sent to refrom school, with corporal punishment and no answering back or swearing allowed, that would learn them.

Their parents should be locked up for abuse and neglect. The parents of the little boy represent all that is wrong with Britain, all they want is to make easy money out of their disgusting little child, the devils.

And they have the cheek to call him by my name!!!

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It's just been reported in the British press that she slept with eight other guys so the father could be anyone.

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Alf,

If you really are in the UK I challenge you to go out one night for a drink in Blackbird Leys or Moss Side. How about the middle of Manchester or Leeds at 12 at night. I have travelled through some seriously bad countries but I am not stupid enough to take risks I really don’t need to take.

As for your namesake, little Alfie, I have got to the point that I’m 100% sure he will turn out to be the dupe who thought he was the father. Having seen pictures now of most of these two families all I can say is I wouldn’t want them living next door to me, what a tribe of rats.

There will come a point when this army of do nothing scum out breed the tax payers, where then will be money come from to support them?

I’m sure you have an answer Alf, but is it too late?

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grafton: I aint going for a drink to them dumps. I go to Wetherspoons now, where they ban under 18's music and taht. You can drink in peace and quiet. Them other pubs let in kids to drink them alcopop things and the old bill do nothink!!!

These kids and their mental case parents are like a disease, but they is a minority. This minority must be stamped down, forced to sweep the streets for their benefits, have their benefits cut if their kids misbehave. The silent majority, who behave proper, should petition the government to bring back corporal punishment, the birch and the stocks for idiot parents like these kids have!

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Hey ALFGARNETT love your posts man! You are a guy who talks absolute sense and I respect that.

What can be done with Britain now?? Nothing, the malaise is too deep and it's too late.

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Streuth and hells bells, we've got a couple of wonderful families here.

Get this -

Alfie's Dad is boasting 'I have to make the most of it. I’m going to make as much money as I can... I’ve heard people can get us loads of money for Alfie’s story.’ Alfie's Mum is narked that Dad is trying to make a deal without consulting her, and has started negotiations of her own.

This Dad has 9 children, three with his ex-wife and another from a previous relationship. No mention where the others came from. Mum and Dad split two years ago when she found him having an affair with a 19-year-old. Mum has a daughter from a previous relationship who is said to have had a child at age 13.

Word has it that Chantelle has been allowed to have three boys staying overnight with her at her parents' house in the past few months.

They couldn't make this stuff up.

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archiebald: whereabouts in the UK are/were you from then? Your experience is extreme.

Bushlover: don't start on that Hollywood Victorian Evil Empire rubbish. Do all Americans get their 'history' from Hollywood? The UK never had a military capable of establishing an empire; it was mostly achieved by exploration, bravado and wide-boy wheeler-dealing. And even at the height of Empire in the Victorian age, most of Britain (including the 'rich' SE of England) languished in squalid poverty, and crime was far worse than it is now. But the politicians, landed gentry and rich industrialists didn't care because the poor didn't matter. Now, the main problem is that the only thing that matters to politicians is toxic political correctness. There are signs that things are changing. I predict a landslide for the Tories at the next election. I used to loathe the Tories, but Labour has totally disappeared up its own rear end, dragging much of Britain with it, in its zeal to be politically correct no matter what the cost. And the cost has become unbearable.

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taiko666,

I spent most of my time in Suffolk and the last couple of years of my time in the UK was in Peterborough. Not exactly well known hotspots of crime but I've got friends all over the UK. It doesn't really matter where you go - crime in the UK is everywhere.

Murder took place in Dunblane (yes - the infamous school shooting), my friend's 5 year old son. The muggings happened in the midlands, burglaries happened near Blackburn and in Lowestoft. My Mother was burgled in Suffolk, my brother's business was broken into in the same town, three of my friends had cars stolen, I forget how many times friends have reported car windows being smashed, my wife's rental car was stolen in the Lake District when she visited by herself one time, my rental car was keyed on two separate occasions in different locations during one visit.....

Need I go on...??

There are ratbag families like those in the story that live in the same street as my Mother in Law, she caught 5 and 6 year olds from one particular family from hell breaking into her house on two occasions.

The country HAS gone to the dogs and the blame is on the Nanny State and liberal do-gooders.

They should bring back hanging, the birch, national service and let the police and school teachers crack some heads.

Japan's crime rate may be increasing and the morality decreasing, but I don't think it will ever get as bad as the UK within my life-time.

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I've recently read that there is an increasing criminality in the British youth, and specially in girls (!)

Having a child at 13 is not a crime, but is a big sign of dissorientation.

This makes me feel sad, I spent 5 days in London last year and I really loved it. I thought it would be a nice place to live. I walked around the pubs south of Soho square and I did not feel a great danger as it was really crowded (in Soho square, however, I noticed the posts warning of thieves).

My hotel was in Southwark, which I had read is very dangerous, but it looked safe to me. And nothing happened.

Now I think I have just been lucky.

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It's amazing Terence Davies has stopped by to post!

I recently saw his documentary Time and a City which focuses on his hometown, Liverpool. While it is a personal rather than a political film, he is quoted in the NYT's as saying:

“Liverpool is the country in embryo,” he said recently, speaking on the phone from his home on the Essex coast. “We are just becoming more and more Neanderthal and uncivilized, and perhaps that’s the fate of all post-imperial powers. I see it all getting worse, and I just hope I’m dead before it gets really bad.”

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The Ironic thing about this story is that the headline includes the story from The Sun newsp... no scratch that, The Sun toilet paper which has probably done more to destroy morality in the UK over the last 30 years.

By paying ridiculous sums of money for this story, they are demonstrating that being anti-social pays dividends.

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I meant it's amazing Terence Davies hasn't stopped by to post, so I took the liberty of adding his opinion to this discussion.

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If they get all this dosh from the scummy Sun, will they stop claiming beenfits until they spend it all or start up a business with it?

You bet they won't , the swines. Britain aint no more broken than late sixties to early eighties. There was real strife then, but it were by adults, kids behaved better or borstal, where they would gdet beaten for any midameanor. I guarantee these kids will get money from the government, because they are too young and too bleeding thick to support themselves. The parents who let them sleep over and that, should be locked up as a detterent to other ignorants who might do the same.

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I guarantee these kids will get money from the government, because they are too young and too bleeding thick to support themselves.

Alf,

That's always been my view of where teenage parenthood takes ya. But in the US we confront an aggressive push back from a vocal "they chose life" crowd who celebrate the decision while dismissing the context in which it occurs. I have yet to see anyone reconcile the two.

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Spanishwoman: I lived in London till I was 19, and then off and on for the next 20 years until I came to Japan, and I've never even seen a so much as a bar punch-up, let alone been the victim of violence. In fact, I've never felt in the least threatened in London, even in the more down-to-earth non-touristy places.

However, I've had a car stolen in London, a motorcycle stolen in Essex, another one in Stoke, and my parents had their car stolen and used in a ram-raid in Leeds. Ah, and my brother-in-law had his motorcycle stolen.

These sorts of opportuninst crimes have long gone unpunished in PC-at-all costs Britain, so the chav cancer has grown.

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Irrespective of whether the boy is the true father or not, the whole sorry affair is symptomatic of the sickness that now ails the UK. As a Brit exile in Japan for half my life (I'm now in mid 50s), it's sad to see what's happened to my country. I still go back there regularly, but I've been appalled at some of the social deterioration that's occurred in the last 10-15 years, and I believe much of the blame is to be laid at the door of New Labour for the fool's paradise they've constructed over the last 12 years, and which is now unravelling big time. Now that the UK economy is in shreds, we can expect to see things getting a great deal worse, and I agree with a previous poster that civil unrest is a distinct possibility. Far from the dizzy standards of UK education widely trumpeted by the government, the population is now one of the most ignorant in Europe, fed trashy reality TV shows, American soaps, and even trashier domestic products such as "Hollyoaks". There is now a pervading trend for gross misbehaviour to be regarded as "cool", and for people who are academically diligent as being "geeks". People reap huge financial rewards from setting bad examples, as exemplified recently by those crass non-talents "Jonafan Woss" and Russell Brand. There are now no longer any reliable yardsticks of what constitutes acceptable behaviour, and the law has been weakened to such an extent that no reliable deterrents exist to prevent things such as the current wave of knife crime. The phrase "dumbing down" has been used, and I think that is what has happened in the UK. It now seems doubtful whether the country can recover, but I think that if there is any hope, then it will have to come from re-education, so that people acquire enough brain cells to see the path ahead, and to become capable of making judgments about what constitutes good taste and is morally and socially correct: not just chanting some "PC mantra" that has been foisted upon them by an incompetent and weak government.

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I don't understand what the big deal here is. No it isn't right for them to have babies at such a young age, but come on, at 13 who isn't between the sheets. You can't always blame the parents; although, in this case you can. In most cases the parents can watch their children all the time, but still teens will find a way to get that nookie. The only thing that can be done is preach safe sex, and anyone who disagrees with that is for sure living in a different era.

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Takeda: when schools started to ban competitive sport and introduce 'child centred learning' in the 80s I thought it was the beginning of the end. Now those kids have grown into chavs and chav parents. For my sins, I was a primary school teacher for around 6 months 18 years ago (I couldn't stand it and baled out.) One of my most vivid memories of that time was a young, trendy female teacher yelling literally as hard as she could with a crimson, contorted face at some poor 10 year-old boy who'd been 'evil' enough to hold the door open for a girl and say "ladies first." I never saw the kid smile again.

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there are scum in the uk,no question,and there were plenty of scum who used to live there but now live elsewhere, but the majority of these na'e do wells come from the old mining communities which were ,with one vindictive swipe of the blue pen, obliterated by the root cause of this current crime wave..Margaret Thatcher.The lifestyle in these places broke down, no longer did son follow father down the pit..where they worked so hard there was never any energy left for crime.Now these places are a hotbed of drug abuse and the related crime committed to fuel the addiction. Thatcher you are the true scum..as exemplified perfectly by the fruit of your own loins. It was she who propounded the greed is good mantra"there is no such thing as society" which has recently imploded. To see her idiot ex press secretary (i can never accept that my lord and mistress ever made a mistake for it was i who assisted her in her actions)attempting to be at a loss for an explanation is simply pathetic. Re education..cambodia style?You think its cool to mock those with speech impediments?is that a measure of the good taste and morally acceptable standards you are advocating.. My start to raising the level of behaviour in the UK..1.Ban the tabloid press...

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"My start to raising the level of behaviour in the UK..1.Ban the tabloid press..."

It's far too late for that. The simple statistic of 3 million people a day buying The Sun is enough to know what level of intellect these people are at.

The gutter press are simply providing their daily juju.

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its never too late

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"its never too late"

No, the borders are still open! If anybody has any money left in the UK they should be leaving the island before it sinks ;)

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Loss of community, loss of job, loss of self-worth and it is, as other posters have commented, going to get worse.

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Bento: I agree with you entirely about what Thatcher did to Britain. In fact that was the time I upped stakes and came to Japan. I had lived in Durham for 8 years, and loss of the rich culture associated with the mining communities, and its catastrophic effect on society there, saddened me greatly. As to Mr Woss, your attitude seems typical of the PC brainwashing that has been going on in the UK for the last decade and a half. I still reserve the right to bring someone down a peg or two if I think they deserve it, and as the person in question has been laughing all the way to the bank, I doubt very much whether his speech impediment has been much of a worry to him.

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The lifestyle in these places broke down, no longer did son follow father down the pit..where they worked so hard there was never any energy left for crime.

I come from a very long line of miners. I cannot imagine any of them would not be glad the pits are a thing of the past. Backbreaking, demoralising, dead-end work for a pittance, never seeing the light of day, the constant threat of death or injury through a cave-in or gas explosion, if nothing else gets you the coal dust destroys your lungs and makes you breathless at forty.....when my Dad managed to get out (through study and sheer bloody-mindedness), he declared they would never get him down the pit again, even if they paid him in fistfuls of diamonds.

Granted, taking away a culture and means of livelihood and putting nothing in its place is a recipe for social disintegration, but let's not wish the pits back. Those were not the Good Old Days.

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"Those were not the Good Old Days."

It is true that the miners plight was shocking, and I'm from up north too.

The working class people however, really were the working class. It was a disgrace to be living on welfare. These people had the crucial work ethic engraved in their DNA.

Now, the "working" class, well...they don't work. And rather than being ashamed of being spongers, we have a third generation of people who have not only never done an honest days work in their lives, but who are actually quite proud of living on benefits.

On I recent trip I even over-heard a spotty fat girl in the supermarket looking forward to receiving her "bennies" as soon as she was old enough.

Getting these millions back to work should be a priority.

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cleo: I'm not trying to glamorize the pits. I went down one in the 70s and that one time was enough to etch forever in my mind what kind of working environment the miners had. What I'm really getting at is the way that Britain's traditions and values have been vanishing, until now almost nothing remains. The Durham Gala was a fantastic event, which I always attended, and despite the fact that the miners had hard lives, they had a solid identity. UK "culture" and society now are like one of those western film sets with tumbleweed blowing down the main street.

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Madverts: I am working class, and never had a day on benefits, until i got me pension. Now they leave school,don't matter if you can read or write because you will get dole and a council flat for free because of housing benefit.

The Sun and the Mirror groups of papers is to blame for putting rubbish into peoples heads, but they was around for decades and kids were behaved proper then.

Nowadays it isn'T a shame on the family if a girl becomes pregnant. They even think it's alright and alright to sign on all your life innit!

Every time ther is a Labour government the country is in chaos and morals is eroded. Look at last time they was in power in the '70 s, the country was almost bankrupt, 3 day week , riots, power cuts, and more. Just wait, there will be riots, football hooliganism (whcih has already started to re surface) and mass unemployment at its highest ever levels. Millions is scared of losing their homes. The blooming country is living in fear, yet a minority live for free off others for all their lives.

We need a proper government to take control with an iron fist to cure us. A new leader in the mould of Winny is needed. I reckon Cameron is too weak, Hague would do better, he was from council house and brought himself up through hard graft.

Let's put the Great back into Britain.

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Let's see, that's one out of how many millions? Leave it to the press to create hysteria over the out of wedlock birth of one child. This is not a big deal. Move on people, nothing to see here.

Alf, remember what moved Churchill into the PM office - war with Germany. Sure, you can blame a lot on sloth but do you really want to risk the old fashioned cure?

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"Sure, you can blame a lot on sloth but do you really want to risk the old fashioned cure?"

And that is damned fine point.

War or anarchy.....or continue paying the slobs every month that are out-breeding us.

Heh, that is the "big deal" though, cat. Many of us are sick of it.

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I agree with Madverts. If I were British, I would be FURIOUS that these people will live off my taxes.

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Alf,

Wetherspoons? Plastic pubs with nylon carpets (watch out for the static shocks). Alf, really, I thought better of you than that. By the way Blackbird Leys & Moss Side are two of the worst council estates you could imagine, one white the other black.

“but they is a minority.” Maybe ten years ago you could have said that, not today, their numbers are growing so fast. Which was my point about who is going to be paying the taxes needed to pay for their support? They have come to expect & in some instances demand their life style, so what happens when government can longer provide it? That is where I see the civil unrest coming from. It will start by focusing on the large numbers of immigrants, always an easy option when a society have committed social suicide & needs to blame somebody. But what about the children’s children of immigrants? They are just as “British”.

Pointing the finger at Thatcher is only half an answer, saying the mining communities were so badly damaged they turned bad is only a detail in a much bigger picture. New Labour’s reaction to Thatcher was to be so politically correct that nobody could be accused of being “unfair” to anybody else. It was (is) liberalism gone mad. With a 4/5 year cycle between elections there is also this political need to keep voters sweet at any price, but the time frame is too small to achieve anything worth while, but is more than long enough to cause problems when the country’s direction is in the hands of small minded politicos that think more about their own survival that the greater good of the country. The scum that live on benefits vote Labour because Labour will go on paying the benefits. The Conservatists talk about change but are not trusted by the bulk of the voters & Thatcher can be thanked for that. The Liberals have so many nice ideas that nobody takes them seriously. It truth there are no strong politicians in the country. The slide started a long time back & I think it is too late to reverse without some extremely painful measures & no politician is going to risk their job to put such measure through.

Aside from Garsington outside Oxford I only know the large cities in England & in those places families like Afle’s are becoming the norm. An unmarried woman with 3,4 or 5 children by different fathers is not unusual. The cross relationships on council estates must be almost impossible to unravel. It has got to the point that only an iron fisted dictatorship would be strong enough to turn this situation around & no, I am not advocating such a thing. I will just (like so many others here) keep my distance & watch the anarchy unfold.

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Stories like this serve as a reminder that people vastly overestimate what it would take for an organized society to regress into a bunch of savages.

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grafton: If you was in Britain , then you would know Whetherspoons is an oasis away from the troublemakers, no music, cheap real ale 1.50 a pint and cheap grub with big portions. Ideal for an oap with a small income like. The reason pubs like this are becoming popiular is, the normal pub was were the community went to left off steam and have a knees up, now they are full of kids, blaring music and yobbos having punch ups.

We need companies to ban these people, make them like lepers, make them feel unwanted and the feel like the dregs they is.

Strewth, i brung up me wife and daughter on pittance, but my daughter never grew up bad and nor did her mates, whos fathers also was poor.

Everytime Labour are in power for a long time, there is chaos. It's this wishy washy liberal rubbish poliicies , that help the useless not the real needy like old boys like me. This government, spends more on welfare every year, but my home help has been cut from 5 to 3 days a week because of cuts, and i paid taxes for forty years. I reckon i've been ripped off, and done up like a bleeding kipper.

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That kid doesn't look 13 more like 10 is right. Anyway, this stuff happens all over the world. The truth is Britain is broken and so is the U.S., Japan and the rest of the 1st world. This is what happens in developed economies when the gap between rich and poor, educated and not is so great. Depressing but nothing new here by a long shot.

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We've all morphed into consumption-oriented societies. For those who are unable to partake of it on their on steam, that leaves the dole and debt as the avenues to some level of comfort.

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This story is proof of Britain being a welfare state. No wonder Australia has become what it is being modelled off of the British system and no wonder the country needed help in 2 world wars to defend herself. Welfare needed all around. What will become of the future of Britain with welfare on the increase?

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"What will become of the future of Britain with welfare on the increase?"

They'll end up electing the national front.

No solution either, sadly.

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bushlover: Both Britain and Aussies have lower teenage pregnancys and murders than USA. Americans have nothing to preach about, like.

Britain, may be broken but we can be fixed. We is strong and will revolt against them what is idle and useless. A new government, will knock them back into order mark my words.

At least we aint sunk to the depths of the USA and Japan where this kind of thing are hidden and abortions is rife.

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bushlover: When we had 2 world wars we didn'T have welfare state sonny JIm.

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Madverts: How long you been out of Britain, it are the BNP now who is getting the votes. They won't win , the Tories will be in control soon and all them scroungers are gonna get a good kick up the backside.

Little Alfie is going to reep what he sows, mark my words!!

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DNA?

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Alf, or perhaps I should address you as "Big Alfie," you are on top or your facts:

These are a few of the facts:

• Teen pregnancy rates are much higher in the United States than in many other developed countries-twice as high as in England and Wales or Canada, and eight times as high as in the Netherlands or Japan.

• About 1 million teenagers become pregnant each year; 95% of those pregnancies are unintended, and almost one third end in abortion.

• Public costs from teenage childbearing totaled $120 billion from 1985 -- 1990; $48 billion could have been saved if each birth had been postponed until the mother was at least 20 years old.

http://www.free-press-release.com/news/200804/1207250874.html

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The amazing part about all the posts from the peanut gallery is how brits blame everyone else except themselves...the individual. It's always the governments fault isn't it? Do you people rely on your government to tell you how to live your life or something? Apparently so!

Either that or you clowns go on about how it's America or Europe's fault...showing an amazing lack of responsibility and ownership of your own lives.

Worse still is that so many brits don't have the guts to stay home and make England a better place, and, instead, flee to far off countries and ...you guessed it...blame the British government...americans..europeans any chance they get.

Oh and 'Taiko666' england DID terrorize the planet and screw a lot of other cultures over with their military 'might'. A musket is still more power than a spear. Just accept it you chav coward.

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Cat5: if you knew anythink about Britain, you would know the government can change society very quickly in Britain, for better or worse. The last 11 years of Labour Mis rule have alowed feral kids to behave like this with impunity and that.

No-one are blaming the Yanks, just mentioning their society has far more problems.

Civil disobedience is going tto change things this year in Britain, mark my words. The hated poll tax was taken off the books due to civil disobedience.

British aint clowns, we is the most civilised, but some take advantage of our generous welfare laws. That is the change that are needed.

I lived in Britain all me life , man and boy, and served my country against tyranny, and i don't need some little kid talking down to me like!!!!

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"The last 11 years of Labour Mis rule have alowed feral kids to behave like this with impunity and that."

LOL, WRONG! There you go blaming the state for not raising your kids properly. There is no mention of the parents part in the child's upbringing.

Who the hell relies on their government to raise children the 'right way'? Give your head a shake.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

This government, spends more on welfare every year, but my home help has been cut from 5 to 3 days a week because of cuts, and i paid taxes for forty years. I reckon i've been ripped off, and done up like a bleeding kipper.

It isn't fair. You're left to fend for yourself while the government is underwritin' all the Young Alfies and their spawn.

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Cat5: You is either daft or cannot read what i wrote proper.

I didn'T say about my kids did i. I have 1 daughter brung up proper. The state is responsible to make parents lokk after they kids proper or lock them up.

The government makes the law of the land, if they encouraged anarchy then people couuld do anythink. The government should make laws , so it is illegal for a boy and girl like this to spend a night together unattended, and issue harsh punishments to those who break them laws.

The parents actually Cat5are on benefits, ie professional welfare claimants, who with every kid get more money every week to spend on booze and fags. That is the problem. The government has to have certain responsibility , or we may as wellhave no laws like. I worked hard for these buggers, and they should work for their benefits and pay for letting their kids get up to these things. Disgusting!!!

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Britain will be mended. A strong Tory government shall ensure normality returns to our once great nation. Children shall become children again, behave with respect or suffer harsh punishments. The pareents shall behave decently or face imprisonment. If they cannot look after their bleeding offsprings they must be taken away by social services and brung up proper and decent and to show respsct to their elders.

The benefit culture must die, and it will, when we vote in a strong right wing government with old fashioned ideas of decency.

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Cat5

I am British (sort of) & I have never blamed America or Europe for the stupidity that is Britain today. I do however have no choice but to hold the government responsible for a great deal of what is happening. The current government have created laws that can have a person sent to prison for stating the obvious, if the obvious just happens to involve the word “Muslin”. Immigration is killing the country but is defended by that same government. Benefits were originally designed to help people through difficult times in their lives, they were never meant to be life style choices. Nor were they meant to be so large & so easy to get & keep getting. “If you give a person a crutch the will limp” was that Bertolt Brecht? Who ever, it’s true of the British under class. There is every good reason to blame the British government.

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I agree with bishmonten because he are stating the obvious. Government is to govern, if it does it bad, the country turns sour.

I want me old Britain back, it aint hard. Just show some respect, kids act like kids, parents act responsibly and those on benefits must genuinally need them and all that.

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I agree with Cat5 on how Brits always blame others but can't take responsibility for themselves.

They are hardly alone there, eh? "Personal Responsibility" always seems to apply to the other guy.

And a comparison with the US is necessary to test your contention that "This story is proof of Britain being a welfare state." Ah, but if the teen pregnancy rate is higher in the US, with its more minimal set of welfare entitlements, it calls into question whether the welfare state is in fact responsible for out of wedlock teen births.

Besides, if this were so commonplace in the UK, nobody would be making money off sharing the details.

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“Personal Responsibility" is all well & good when you are given the freedom to use it, but in Britain today you are not given that freedom. The state at both national & local level interferes with every aspect of a person’s life. How a parent raises their child is limited by what the state now allows a parent to do, there are (not) accepted parameters that the state imposes & parents need to manoeuvre carefully to avoid the dreaded social workers. The front line enforcers of government control. Given the story of these two particular dysfunctional families you might that the social workers should have seen this one coming but failed. Half true, they saw it & thought nothing of it because it is too close to the norm.

Moderator: References to the U.S. are of course irrelevant.

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The state at both national & local level interferes with every aspect of a person’s life. How a parent raises their child is limited by what the state now allows a parent to do

Well these two dysfunctional families apparently were not interfered with enough. Or do you think these parents' child-raising efforts were limited by what the state allows a parent to do? Did the state force them to let a 14-year-old girl have multiple boyfriends over to stay the night?

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Cat5,

The amazing part about all the posts from the peanut gallery is how brits blame everyone else except themselves...the individual. It's always the governments fault isn't it? Do you people rely on your government to tell you how to live your life or something? Apparently so!

You obviously are not British and you don't understand the way the laws have changed over the last 30~40 years in the UK. Human nature means that people will always grab all they can get unless there is some form of control. In the case of social welfare and crime and punishment, successive governments in the UK have been totally inept. There are so many examples that I don't know where to begin. Here is just a taster;

1) The recent paltry sentence of 3 years given to a dangerous driving truck driver for killing a family of 6 is just a part of this. 2) The UK has a vast number of professional scroungers who contribute nothing to the system and take as much as they can. This is a failing of the government policy 3) Prisons are more akin to holiday camps. 4) As a result of 3) being no deterrent, prisons are overcrowded so the political solution has been to....wait for it.... reduce sentences. 5) Drug use is a well known cause of crime but what do we see in the UK? Drug traffickers face no consequences for their crimes and addicts are treated as patients with an illness rather than the criminals they are. 6) Teachers are not even allowed to verbally discipline rowdy pupils for fear that they will be taken to court for causing "emotional distress" to the little git. 7) There is no responsibility placed on the parents of children that run amok. The criminal age of responsibility is (or was) 12 years old so if a kid commits a crime, he gets off scott free. I have no problem with that, but the parents should be made responsible for the under age actions of their kids so that maybe they provide a more disciplined upbringing.

Oh, and by the way, some of this CAN be blamed on Europe - Ever heard of the European court of human rights? It interferes and can over-rule the law of the land.

Either that or you clowns go on about how it's America or Europe's fault...showing an amazing lack of responsibility and ownership of your own lives.

No-one here is blaming any other country, you made that up yourself to suit your own agenda. The problems in the UK that most ex-pat Brits complain about are home made.

Worse still is that so many brits don't have the guts to stay home and make England a better place, and, instead, flee to far off countries and ...you guessed it...blame the British government...americans..europeans any chance they get.

You are talking utter nonsense. The people commenting here, including myself have all gone overseas for various reasons, but not to run away. In my case the original plan was 3 years, but after being away for only 2 years, I was suddenly aware of all the things that had changed for the worse in my absence. Now, 17 years later, when I visit the UK I feel more foreign there than I do here in Japan. It is an alien culture that has gone from bad to worse. Why should I return to a country where me or my family are more likely to suffer from crime and where our tax money will go to wasters like the families in this story.

It saddens me to see what has become of my country but that does mean to say that I must make my family suffer by returning there out of some sort of duty to financially support idiotic government policies that allow the disintegration of British society.

Oh and 'Taiko666' england DID terrorize the planet and screw a lot of other cultures over with their military 'might'. A musket is still more power than a spear. Just accept it you chav coward.

Why are you hurling insults? Whatever the UK did in the past is not relevant to this situation.

Moderator: All readers, please keep the discussion civil.

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Well these two dysfunctional families apparently were not interfered with enough. Or do you think these parents' child-raising efforts were limited by what the state allows a parent to do? Did the state force them to let a 14-year-old girl have multiple boyfriends over to stay the night?

Indeed, it would seem there was not enough social worker oversight, far from being too much.

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archiebald: I can empathise with much of what you say, as probably our background circumstances are similar. I could perhaps also add that case of a father who was playing football in a park with his son, and was set upon by a gang of ferals aged 12-15 and stoned to death ! The "penalties" meted out in that case were certainly not going to discourage something similar happening again. Yes Japan has its nutters too, but can you imagine such a thing happening here?

Despite all of Britain's social ills, my wife and I still chose to send our kids there for education after age 12, because - like it or loathe it - the UK is half of their heritage, and we wanted them to experience life there at first hand so that they could choose their own path. I'm now beginning to wonder whether that was a good decision, and that they'd have been better served by education in a third country. Labour were so determined to create a level educational playing field that excellence now survives only in a precious handful of schools, whereas in the rest, utter mediocrity is praised and rewarded. The old two-tier system of education may have had its faults, but at that time people still had pride in vocational skills and craftsmanship. Labour have been trying to create a fantasy world in which everyone has a white-collar office job, with the result that good honest trades are no longer perceived as "fashionable". Kids who in reality should never have gone to university are now reading useless subjects like "American Studies" at what used to be Wessex Polytechnic, when they should have been encouraged to nurture vocational skills and offered jobs that rewarded them. Humans are diverse in their skills and intelligence: that's a biological fact. But UK education has homogenized everyone, and the result is now a soulless society.

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Britain may have problems with these areas of squalor like, but it still is the bestest place in the world to live.

I am happy. I hvae done me duty, now i can relax with me mates, and any kids bother me , i make sure they sod off. Them cocky kids get beatings here from adults who won't put up with their lip any longer.

We all need to take a stand against those who ruin our country and culture. Strewth, we will do it, mark my words. We've had problems worse than this in the past and always survived stronger in the end.

WE need to let the buggers know we wont take their behaviour, and bang them up for proper sentences in proper prisons, not ones like Butlins. Maybe the prison could learn them how to read or write and also learn what financially means, know what i mean like!!!

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This thread has been quite an illuminating read. It seems the consensus of the expat British community in Japan, as represented by JT posters, has identified a sole culprit for all that ails her: the Labour Party (monocausal explanations I am mighty familiar with on this side of the pond).

Yet one poster accused the government of being too weak:

The government has to have certain responsibility , or we may as wellhave no laws like.

While another claimed the problem was that it is too strong:

The state at both national and local level interferes with every aspect of a person’s life.

It seems Labour can't win for losing.

I visited the UK in 1992, when the Tories were still in power. There were thuggish young panhandlers at some tube stops. Much commercial real estate "To Let." Deindustrialization had made factory jobs a relic of the past. It was a country clearly in decline. But I don't think anyone has any ideas on how to arrest that process.

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The UK has a vast number of professional scroungers who contribute nothing to the system and take as much as they can.

WE need to let the buggers know we wont take their behaviour, and bang them up for proper sentences in proper prisons, not ones like Butlins.

was set upon by a gang of ferals aged 12-15 and stoned to death !

now [the pubs] are full of kids, blaring music and yobbos having punch ups.

I can appreciate where the impetus to impose sharia law in the UK is coming from, it's seen as the only means to impose order on ruffians and hooligans. Cut off a thief's hands and he'll think twice about pinching your stuff. That'll teach him a lesson all right.

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Let me tell you what are needed right now in Britain like. A strong leader like Winny and strong members of his cabinet like for instance Enoch Powell.

With leaders like that at the helm, we could beat anybody. These feral kids and their layabout parents would be quaking in their boots. They'd soon find work for them, digging up roads, sweeping up or down the pits.

A bit of strength, a real deterrent, that will stop the bone idle buggers. And we can become great again and proud of the country for Her Majesty.

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Just to lighten up a bit, I'm not sure if any non-Brits reading this know who the "real" Alf Garnett was. (try a Google search)

All I can say is, AlfGarnett, thanks for taking on that nickname whoever you are and keep up the excellent posts in the spirit of the original character. It takes me back to my childhood listening to your rants, what's more they work perfectly for this topic.

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cleo: re mining villages. I stayed with a Welsh friend in the ex-mining village of Resolven. It was one of the most depressing places I've ever been to, and the only place where I've seen a full-on bar-ruccus. When Maggie closed the mines and heavy industry all over the UK (including England) she should've put something else in place that would benefit more than just the champagne and red-braces brigade in the City.

Alf: I mostly agree. I used to loathe the Tories, and Maggie in particular. But I'd be happy for the Tories to win a landslide in the next election if they'd promise to begin to rollback toxic political correctness. If only the Tories had tackled crime and social depravation in 80s/90s with the same vigour that they applied to defeating the unions and closing down most of the UK's manufacturing.

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cleo at 09:27 AM JST - 17th February

I did write, “Given the story of these two particular dysfunctional families you might think that the social workers should have seen this one coming but failed. Half true, they saw it & thought nothing of it because it is too close to the norm.” I should also point out that JT did its usual trick of editing out what IT thought shouldn’t be there. The missing paragraph might have added a little more balance to what was left.

Betzee at 09:57 AM JST - 17th February

“Indeed, it would seem there was not enough social worker oversight, far from being too much.”

The social work system in the UK works on the principle of not being judgemental. A 15 year old girl having sex is not such a strange thing & it would be wrong in the eyes of the social worker to condemn her. Their job is (for example) to make sure she isn’t being forced to go to church. Social work is politically motivated, & the politics are not simply left wing, which would not be bad as such, but are idealistic left wing. All people are good people given the chance. So they are always given the chance, never condemned & never judged.

Betzee at 11:38 AM JST - 17th February

“While another claimed the problem was that it is too strong:” “The state at both national and local level interferes with every aspect of a person’s life.”

I never said that the government was strong, I said they interfere, which is not the same thing.

As for Alf’s comments you really need to realise who Alf is, yes the comments do have a serious element but they are written as a parody of an old British TV comedy. The content may be serious, the style is not. Those of us that have seen the original know what our Alf here is about. Others may not. Sorry Alf, I just know that you are going to take exception to that, but really you don’t give the uninitiated much chance.

For those that are only seeing the UK from the outside & that to some degree includes (some of) those of us who have been out of the country for a long time. We use the term dysfunctional from a past perspective, not as it might be used in the country today. To talk about social values in the UK today is make oneself sound like a right wing extremist, it is being judgemental. No action is being taken against either of these families in respect to neglect, yet obviously these children have been neglected otherwise they would not have been sleeping together & producing a child. The girl it now seems has had a number of “sexual encounters” & the boys that are saying they have had sex with her (& might be the true father of this child) are also not being investigated by the police.

There is an Alice in wonderland quality to much that is going on in the country, today for example a man has been sent prison because he went around to a drug dealers house & flushed the dealers drugs down the toilet. A drug addict that had come to buy drugs saw the confrontation & reported it to the police. No action is being taken against either the dealer or his unhappy customer. Yes there is a logic to this, the drug addict & dealer are sick people in need of protection from somebody that took the law into their own hands, he is obviously a danger to society. When I wrote that local & national government interfere I might have been better saying that they monitor society for its political correctness not its total lack of moral or social values & certainly not for its criminal behaviour.

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To echo archiebald: I used to have great faith in the "Great British Bloke" epitomized by Alf Garnett, but sadly his type are now an anachronism: a loveable one, but an anachronism nevertheless. It's going to take a lot more than tub-thumping over a pint of mild to put the UK to rights now. But never mind, eh Alf? Up the 'ammers !

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I never said that the government was strong, I said they interfere, which is not the same thing.

You cannot claim the state interferes too much but that it is non-judgmental. That's a contradiction in logic. In my experience, social workers carry far higher case loads than they can handle. In addition, "dysfunctional families" tend to a have a multitude of problems exacerbated by the fact they are often unstable and blended unions. Even if that is not the case, the level of conflict within the home tends to be high.

I don't know under what circumstances UK social workers have professional interaction with British families, but if someone was aware young Chantelle's parents allowed her to have overnight male guests and did nothing, I would say the person was remiss. It would not be a criminal matter, however, unless one of her partners was legally an adult.

But the larger problem with your post is its implication that liberal do-gooderism is at the root of all the UK's ills. This ignores certain other realities such as capitalism's structural need for some people to be unemployed. If that were not the case, workers could bid up their wages. (Hence businessmen who produce goods competitive on the basis of cost often favor high levels of immigration, legal or not, to guarantee a supply of new workers.)

The problem comes when it's one class of people who fill that slot and bequeath it to their children. Welfare, certainly, underwrites such a lifestyle. But some have argued such payments in fact represent a means to keep those who otherwise might be tempted to rebel quiet ("fat and lazy"). Civil unrest has a terribly negative impact on the economy (as anyone who's ever experienced it can attest).

I remember when the Tories came to power in 1979 and Margaret Thatcher became PM. It was after a garbage strike and people had had one too many. Brits I later worked with all expressed personal antipathy toward the woman but conceded something had to be done to reign in the unions, otherwise the UK's standard of living was going to approach that of East Germany. Thatcher did take on the unions. Yet once the factory jobs were gone, what alternatives were available to those who filled them? Not much. The job that Old Alf, lovable bloke that he is, did and kept his intact family fed, not to mention paying for all them nights at the pub, probably doesn't exist anymore. Nor, as his posts so colorfully detail, does the community.

One can debate how community dysfunction, as reflected in high levels of out of wedlock births and employment in the illicit economy ("hustling") is connected to loss of stable job opportunities, but the connection is hard to dispute. In my experience, when confronted with such behavior amongst their own, conservatives tend to become suddenly dismissive by claiming, "it happens in the best of families" forgetting they had previously insisted such socially undesirable outcomes were the result of the nanny state.

Now that outsourcing of jobs has extended to white collar professions filled by people who studied hard and "played by the rules," some have become more sympathetic to the costs imposed on those who find themselves in that situation. And they will acknowledge it's a lot more complicated than just blaming "liberalism."

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What does British colonialism have to do with the mores of a bunch of lowlifes?

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Heh....the boy is always ranting on about colonialism. He mostly gets ignored.

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people ranting on about the decline of britain on this thread are just buying into the kind of negative, rag flogging subtext that keeps the Sun flying off the shelves. oh how ironic that those foreigner-hating redtop papers are all owned by a foreigner themselves; rupert murdoch. i think a more crucial problem is allowing key media to be foreign owned my media barons with absolutely zero interest in the social effect of the trash they peddle. but then that's a fault with capitalism in general, is it not?

as for alfie, it is physically possible to father a child at that age and as such we should not be surprised that cases like this crop up, regardless of where and when. he certainly isn't the first 13year old father, in britain, bahrain or belgium. and he won't be the last. even if he is the father, which, given the sun's reputation for journalistic excellence, is doubtful

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Sorry if you've missed the point... which is, how can you promote the positive aspects of Britain in such a sordid and bizzare story ?

This story is about promoting the positive aspects of Britain??? Yes indeed, I did miss that point....

For gods sake stay home, beat upon yer own, and leave the rest of the civilized world in peace.

I could understand that rant if it were little Alfie and Chantelle, or their sad, pathetic parents, being forced out to 'rake(sic) havoc on the civilized world'. Sleep easy in your bed threetimes, they're very unlikely to be coming anywhere near you. Or, heaven be praised, near me.

I don't hear Hindus speaking German, nor Americans, nor South Africans, nor anyone else outside of Germany for that matter ! Ah, but the Queens English ?

lol In none of those places are you likely to hear the Queen's English.

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stiffdrink at 06:34 AM JST - 19th February

The whole story about Alfie the wonder dad (wonder if he did, wonder if didn’t, wonder if he even could!) is a pack of lies & most of us are expecting the DNA tests to prove that. The story itself is far more sordid than a 12 year old fathering a child, it’s a bit like sitting in your really nice garden having a picnic & then lifting a stone to find a whole host of creepy crawlies. The two families involved in & various supporting players are lowlifes of the worst kind, they are not indicative of the whole British population, sadly they are indicative of a growing number that have never worked & don’t want to work for a living. They simply don’t care any more, they have none of the normal feelings of shame that might be expected from someone who lives their entire life being supported by others. The British here are ashamed of these people, they feel that these creatures reflect on them & as far as you are concerned that might well be true. But you are not treating any of this in a balanced way, your have over reacted in a way that suggests that you come from one of the ex-colonies & hold Britain responsible for all that ails you. I might of course be wrong, you don’t say where you come from even though somebody did ask this of you. No, I am not asking, I really don’t care where you come from, but I am sure that it is not paradise & I am sure that there are some really evil people that share your nationality. Tell me, would you have me judge you by them?

Bt the way, I am not British & I could think of many reasons to dislike the British & the Empire, but I can’t see the point because all the guilty (& the innocent) are long dead & I see no reason to hold the people alive today responsible for what they had no hand in & wouldn’t (by today’s standards) want to be party to. The British “Empire” by the way was not the monster that you paint it, it’s military was never that big & it relied on a lot of local help to govern any country that it did take over, so maybe the aftermath that you solely blame the Brits for could also be shared with the ancestors of those that you believe are still damaged by what was done. I, however, do not blame you for anything that your country has ever done, or if it has never achieved anything I don’t blame you for that either, unless of course you were once the prime minister or president. Were you? Blind hate is called blind hate for a reason, but maybe you can’t see that.

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The author was trying to make some silly comment about how wonderful and great Britain was

Ah, now I see your difficulty. You scan the first short paragraph and assume it sets the tone for the whole article. Maybe you got tired of reading before you got to the reality of 2009: the highest teen pregnancy rate in western Europe, a binge drinking culture that leaves drunk teens splayed out in the streets and rising knife crime that has turned some pub fights into deadly affairs.

It's called irony, threetimes. As in, it's ironic that you complain of Americans being forced to speak English as opposed to -what? Apache? Choctaw? Navajo?

I for one respect and admire the People of India, Africa, Asia.

So do I, threetimes. But let's not try to pretend that they speak the Queen's English. Heck, most of the population of the UK don't speak it. I don't speak it. And sure as h3ll you don't speak it.

Moderator: Readers, please stay on topic.

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jonnyboy:

Point taken. Lowlifes are everywhere, and always have been. And incidentally, I don't regard the fact that this boy has a child at 13 as conclusive evidence that he's a lowlife at all. After all, if girl has a child at 13 she's regarded as more of a victim. But the rise of the chav/casual uncaring criminal does seem relentless, even to Guardian readers. At least rags like the Sun operate without the PC strait jacket that everybody else seems to be wearing.

That said, whenever I go back to England I love it (my vintage motorcycle having recently been stolen and burnt to a cinder in a local park notwithstanding...)

I'll be moving back soon! Just hope the government will have been changed by then.

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Grafton: please !

"The British “Empire” by the way was not the monster that you paint it, it’s military was never that big & it relied on a lot of local help to govern any country that it did take over, so maybe the aftermath that you solely blame the Brits for could also be shared with the ancestors of those that you believe are still damaged by what was done"

Well, if the british empire was so loved and adored... why has virtually every nation under it's control either kicked them out or have retaken sole posession without any obligation to the crown ? I don't see the Jamaicans singing praises to England. Australia ? Hong Kong ? India ? ZIMBABWE !!! Face your history and maybe you will understand why Chantelle at age 15 really doesn't know who the father of this child is. England has been broken for decades and the best it's citizens could do is whine about America or run away and live/pollute other nations like Japan. I for one sing the praises of my country every 4th of July as we celebrate our victory over England and ultimate seperation of anything those thugs stood for... including slavery ! Yep, 3.5 million slaves courtesy of England ! Shameful ! But then again it seems that even the author of this story gets it... how else can you explain that giant leap from "Shakespeare to the Beatles" ??? Typical Brits, like nothing happened between those time periods. I beg to differ... it all happened. And the Britain you see today, the broken Britain, in all its yobbish glory is a result.

Moderator: All readers, stay on topic please.

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Britain has always been awash in unsavory characters and people of poor morals and ethics. Chantelle and Alfie come from such households... and by the vast numbers of stories coming out in connection with this, it seems Britain continues down the road to hell.

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Britain is flat out morally and ethically BUSTED !

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Britain is cracked no broken. We are the pride of Europe , lest we forget, with a royal family adored in the commenwealth and worldwide.

Granted, there is too many people abusing the system, but mark my words, a new strong Tory government is going to hange things.

Alfie and his tart would be in reform school to learn decency , amnners and resopect and the parents would be locked up for neglect and abuse.

Britain will come back strong , we always does, after the war we was skint and in the '70s we were like 3rd world country because of red hand Labour party policies. We are positive people with a good democracy, and we will be back, with a better , safer and fairer society. It may take a littke time like, but blimey we can do it!

If we can beat Nazi tyranny, we can beat these dole scrounging lowlifes and bring some decency back into society!!

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But what about this

Young Alfie can't be a father AND a lager lout, at the same time!

No one thought of that, did they? No, only me. That's right. It's all a matter of looking to see the positive side of things. That's what I reckon.

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"the Queen's English. Heck, most of the population of the UK don't speak it. I don't speak it."

Stop the presses ! Alfgarnett speaks it,

"Alfie and his tart would be in reform school to learn decency , amnners and resopect and the parents would be locked up for neglect and abuse. Britain will come back strong , we always does"

Yep, ol "amners and resopect" Just like the Queen mum herself.

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one thing that living in japan has taught me is that you can't have your cake and eat it. all societies are basically different answers to the question of how people can live together in some form of a community;

the answer japan presents is an attempt to abrogate the inevitable differences between members of the community; after all, if everyone is the same (or at least thinks so) there can be no conflict. the flipside? people have to accept a compromised existence

the uk, on the other hand, approaches things from a different angle; people are permitted to be themselves and pursue that which they desire. the flipside? at times a great deal of conflict

the point is, a society like japan's successfully minimises these kinds of unfortunate happenings but at the cost of people's ability to fulfil their potential. the uk, on the other hand, is a place where it is possible to live a great deal more but there is always the chance your car will get stolen or your daughter will get pregnant at 15

the choice is yours!

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The betting firm Paddy Power are actually taking bets on who is the father of this child, is the angel-faced four foot tall Alfie, his elder brother or one of the many teenageers of Eastbourne who claim to have had their way with the town bicycle.

People often use the term "yo-yo knickers" for such girls, but this is clearly misnomer for Chantelle, as "yo-yo" implies that they would be up half the time. Quite clearly hers only have one setting: down.

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Binge drinking has produced a rise in liver disease among Britons in their 20s and the unpleasant reputation of British “lager louts” at holiday resorts across Europe.

Erm I believe this is called "English louts", another example of the ignorant international media getting England and what the British Isles are mixed up.

As for this teen pregnancy, girl should have been forced to have an abortion and the boy a sound thrashing. All this couldnt happen if the boy had some common sense and discipline drilled into him.

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or one of the many teenageers of Eastbourne who claim to have had their way with the town bicycle.

Town bicycle? Tell me, is there any similar clever insult for virgin boys who lie about sleeping with girls who rumor says did everybody else but them? How about tricycles, because they never get to ride the bicycle no matter how much they tri, tri, tri and they are bitter about it as only little boys who ride tricycles can be.

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likitis,

My impression is that Britain's power comes from NOT being a bunch of cookie-cutter bland hoity-toities, but rather a people who explores every facet of life and leaves no stone unturned.

In other words, they are the kind of people who would offer newborn babies to Satan. That's a potential facet of life. Your impression is just that: An impression, but hardly impressive. Brits must just love your impression of them right now.

Of course, you're right in suggesting the British are famed for thinking outside the box, but inadvertently praising a kid who couldn't isn't going to win you any gongs, mate.

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Erm I believe this is called "English louts", another example of the ignorant international media getting England and what the British Isles are mixed up.

Yeah, cuz there are only lout in England. Nowhere else in the British Isles.

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britain has been heading south since Thatcher wrecked the place. The years under Blair were just wasted, he was such a total fraud. The Arod of politics.

The question is will the whole country eventually implode?

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As JT seem unwilling to update this story, i,whist staying strictly on topic, have great pleasure in informing you that this boy, eventually by genetic testing, (results of which were ordered released by the uk courts two weeks ago),was proved not to have been the father.

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