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Battle rages for Ukraine railway hub, despite peace deal

17 Comments
By PETR JOSEK

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Got to hand it to those government forces in Debaltseve: they are holding out depite the best wishes of Moscow.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Looks like the puppet king au chocolat got the orders from the U.S. to sacrifice the regime's inept troops in the cauldron of Debaltseve. The federalist freedom fighters have offered to let these troops go free if only they lay down their weapons and walk out. Is Kiev really going to let a quarter of its front line troops perish? Meanwhile, the Nazis wing of the junta is openly mocking the ceasefire by attacking Donetsk troops in Shirokino. Looks like Germany and France have been trumped by the U.S. desperate to turn the area into a Fallujah. Very sad!

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Why is so that every reported discussion with the preferred side of the story is always ending with: "The official spoke anonymously because they were not allowed to speak publicly." Every day one will spot this phrase in at least half a dozen stories on different subjects.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Tanks, if Ukrainian* forces, are probably T-84s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-84

(* I'll assume by the patch worn by the soldier in the last photo that this is the case)

Also some photos appear to be variants of BMPs(?) I'd guess a BMP-2 but the main gun kind of throws me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP-2

Armored car looks like a BRDM-2 variant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRDM-2

Rocket launcher...BM-27 Uragan? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-27_Uragan

No idea about the crane.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Looks like the puppet king au chocolat got the orders from the U.S. to sacrifice the regime's inept troops in the cauldron of Debaltseve. The federalist freedom fighters have offered to let these troops go free if only they lay down their weapons and walk out.

Ceasefire means everybody stops firing and stand on the lands they occupy. That means Eastern troops keep their lands and Ukraine troops keep their lands. So there's no danger of a town being taken over unless one side violates the ceasefire first, not the other way around (take over a town, then have a ceasefire).

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Ceasefire means everybody stops firing and stand on the lands they occupy. That means Eastern troops keep their lands and Ukraine troops keep their lands. So there's no danger of a town being taken over unless one side violates the ceasefire first, not the other way around (take over a town, then have a ceasefire).

Ukrainian troops in salient. So they're trying to escape from salient(Debaltsevo) with their vehicles, armor and guns. Eastern troops suggested to ukraininans get out from salient unarmed. This condition seems like reasonable, but ukrainians try to continue fight.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I guess it's hard to have a ceasefire when they just keep putin' more troops and weapons in there...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ceasefire means everybody stops firing and stand on the lands they occupy. That means Eastern troops keep their lands and Ukraine troops keep their lands. So there's no danger of a town being taken over unless one side violates the ceasefire first, not the other way around (take over a town, then have a ceasefire).

Ukrainian troops in salient. So they're trying to escape from salient(Debaltsevo) with their vehicles, armor and guns. Eastern troops suggested to ukraininans get out from salient unarmed. This condition seems like reasonable, but ukrainians try to continue fight.

They don't have to fight. They just have to stay and cease fire. That's abiding by the ceasefire conditions. They're fine as long as the Eastern troops also abide by the ceasefire on their side.

The ceasefire also calls for withdrawing of heavy equipment off the front lines. But if the Eastern troops won't allow the Ukraine troops to withdraw with their heavy equipment, then that's on the Eastern troops. The ceasefire doesn't call for leaving heavy equipment - just to take them with you.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

lostrune2 The ceasefire also calls for withdrawing of heavy equipment off the front lines. But if the Eastern troops won't allow the Ukraine troops to withdraw with their heavy equipment, then that's on the Eastern troops. The ceasefire doesn't call for leaving heavy equipment - just to take them with you.

Sorry - without problem - according to Minsk - you can and should take any heavy artillery from line of contact

In Minsk Putin ask Mr Poroshenko - " And what about Debaltsevo pocket ?"

"It is no such thing!" - was honest answer from Mr Poroshenko

So Mr Poroshenko has sold his soldiers in Debltsevo

They should surrender or be destroyed.

And being destroyed they can keep their heavy equipment ....

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Everyone knew the cease fire would not last. The Right Sector declared they would not honor it before the ink was dry. Beating a dead horse here.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Got to hand it to those government forces in Debaltseve: they are holding out

It would be more accurate to say that they lost every battle they faced, retreated into the town and took refuge inside homes and schools so they could use local civilians as human shields.

They are surrounded and hence inside DPR territory.

They should surrender their arms and go home, as per the ceasefire agreement, otherwise they'll face arrest by DPR security forces because they're bearing arms without authorization inside DPR territory.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

If they want to attack Debaltseve, then let them attack Debaltseve, and we'll see how the ceasefire lasts.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

lostrune2 If they want to attack Debaltseve, then let them attack Debaltseve, and we'll see how the ceasefire lasts.

Sorry guys - the game in Debaltsevo is over.

Russian Militia, finishing off the remains of the Ukrainian garrison

The order from Kiev come at last - leave positions in small groups...

But it is tooo late!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Here is a fact. Right Sector's troops, which are official government troops, stated on the onset that they would not honor the ceasefire. Not a word on that. And, of course, no sanctions.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

which are official government troops, stated on the onset that they would not honor the ceasefire

Well then they don't sound very official to me.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well then they (the Right Sector troops) don't sound very official to me.

Then why doesn't Kiev revoke their charter and order them to disband and turn in their weapons?

Oh and those videos of supposed Russian tanks entering Ukraine that NATO keeps harping on about.

The video is fake, it's from the 2008 Georgian war.

http://israelforeignaffairs.com/1368118/rt-%E2%80%8Bgerman-tv-channel-under-fire-over-fake-russian-tanks-in-ukraine-footage/

BUSTED!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

According to the OSCE, Debaltseve is part of the Minsk agreement:

http://www.oscepa.org/news-a-media/press-releases/2099-osce-pa-president-calls-for-strict-adherence-to-ukraine-ceasefire-deplores-debaltseve-fighting

COPENHAGEN, 16 February 2015 – OSCE Parliamentary Assembly President Ilkka Kanerva (MP, Finland) today urged all sides in the Ukraine conflict to adhere strictly to the ceasefire and expressed deep concern about the continuation of fighting in areas of eastern Ukraine, particularly around the town of Debaltseve.

“These early days following the agreement of the ceasefire will be critical as to whether or not it will hold. I welcome the news that it has largely held so far, while I deplore the illegal separatists’ false and counterproductive insistence that the deal does not apply to Debaltseve, a government-held town. I call on all sides to fully respect the deal reached in Minsk and not squander this opportunity for peace that took so much effort to reach,” Kanerva said.

Seems the ceasefire will not hold and Merkel's diplomacy won't work; all options back on the table.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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