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Behind the support for Brexit and Trump: Economic resentment

46 Comments
By CHRISTOPHER S. RUGABER

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"Yet many economists say U.K. companies may face new barriers to their exports in Europe after they leave. . . . Many companies, particularly international banks, which have a huge presence in London, could shift thousands of employees from London to Paris or other cities on the continent." - article

When's the bright tomorrow begin? Tomorrow?

and tomorrow, creeps at this petty pace . . .

0 ( +5 / -5 )

For all the tribalists who want to break whatever system you think is holding you and your fellow tribe members back, but have zero idea what to do next, have no clue what system should replace the one you want broken, here's a song for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Mg6Gfh9Co

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@PTownsend

Never been big on musicals, so I've never actually sat down an watched that one. Maybe I should; that was positively bone-chilling.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Bob Johnson, 70, discussed the vote Friday at a pub in Maybole, Scotland. Unlike most Scots, he supported Brexit.

“For a lot of folks this was a protest vote,” he said. “Protesting being taken for granted, protesting not having their voices heard.”

Which is what should happen in a democracy.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

The educated business/financial class will now emigrate from England so they can continue to take advantage of the world economy. England may be able to keep people out, but they will not be able to keep people in. England will now have a brain-drain and the financial industry will move abroad.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

The educated business/financial class will now emigrate from England so they can continue to take advantage of the world economy.

The English are a pretty proud folk - I would imagine that few of them would go into self-exile for business reasons.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Most if not all of these financial entities are in "the City of London" which is separate from London and not under control of Parliment. So the real question is -"Will the City of London stay with the EU.?"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/oct/31/corporation-london-city-medieval

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The EU is comparable to the Titanic, the Brits just got off on the first lifeboat, they had to leave their valuables on the sinking ship, but they escaped with their lives.

England will have the same relationship with the EU as Switzerland. The Swiss have never joined the EU and enjoy a higher standard of living than any of its member states.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

PT - good video, and Cabaret is a great movie - but I think you've misplaced the zeitgeist. Rural areas of England do not want to become Deutschland über alles - they want to become Norway: to be left the hell alone. That is their right, of course, but the accompanied economic decline will require the country to make certain changes, including drastically reduce military expenditures, and again, that is their prerogative, but it is the opposite of what your clip suggests - and also contrary to what Trump has demanded of the continent: that they shoulder a greater burden. (Trump is not very good at the "thinking" part.) I'd suggest they start with scrapping their submarine arm.

A better clip might be this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbWJoZAsCs

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

, “I could have shut my eyes and altered the accents, and I would have thought they were talking about the American election,” he said.

Yep the Brits have only expressed what many other nations have through different elections in the last couple of decades. Only difference is that this time around there was no 2nd round nor proportional representation it was a yes/no first past the post vote. All elections these days are about class/income rather than ideology, party etc. If you are on a pittance and struggle chances are you are going to say NO to anything and want 'big changes' as lets face it nothing can get any worse for you or so you think.

Thats why many 'poor' former or current labor/communists etc have today more in common with their poor/middle class far right counterparts than with wealthy leftists and believe Farage when he says 'we will give you back (via pay/pension rise, NHS, more jobs etc the money we currently send to EU bureaucrats, corrida lovers based in Brussels etc'.

And when you have nothing or not much you tend to believe whats written on a bus cause if you dont there is nothing left on this planet to enjoy with your remaining few pounds/dollars/euros.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

FREE as a people. Can't get much better than that. Stay close to God and all will be fine. I think Trump can keep the US united. Clinton will create a TEXIT. Texas was a nation for 9 years and I do believe they have that right.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@CrazyJoe

England may be able to keep people out, but they will not be able to keep people in.

That's a good point. Another thing to keep in mind is how valuable dual UK/EU citizenship will become if free movement stops. It will be very attractive to international employers who are used to sending employees all across Europe without the hassle of applying for sponsored employment visas. Almost all of the children born to Europeans living in the UK will be able to become dual nationals by virtue of their parent's citizenship. Britons who only hold UK citizenship may end up becoming a disadvantaged underclass when it comes to finding jobs at multinational companies. I think there will be many unexpected consequences like this that we can't even predict yet.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

All elections these days are about class/income rather than ideology, party etc.

_______________________________________________ I know Hitchens doesn't support the ‘social and moral liberal’ Farage and believes the UK is having a moral disaster without knowledge of what they will do with power when they get it but I still thought this analysis interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3660282/Boston-Lincolngrad-saw-seething-resentment-time-finish-revolution-says-PETER-HITCHENS.html

Of course, it’s not just about immigration. A wonderful alliance, which I have long hoped for, has been forged in this campaign.

It has brought together two groups who had never really met before. The first group are the social and moral conservatives, whose views the Blairised Tory Party despised, while it still relied on their money and their votes. The second are the working-class families whose votes the Blairised Labour Party relied on, while it dismissed and ignored their concerns.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

“Why would you locate in the UK?” asked Desmond Lachman, resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and former IMF official. “You don’t know what kind of access you’ll have to the (EU). Why not just wait?”

Mr Lachman a former member of the IMF, an organization responsible for the imposition of draconian conditions on poor countries , cannota be relied on to give an impartial view on this matter.......

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Vote might as well had been labelled "Slap London in the face? Y/N?"

The banks that will leave were never going to support or help the rest of the country anyway and London has a much higher immigration rate, so in a way everyone gets their wish of a new start. Don't like the racism, but the rural people had been steamrolled for decades, nothing was ever going to change, and something had to give.

The kids though will have to realize at some point that unemployment of their elders and ageism against them in general was and is not okay and if they wanted to abandon them then they didn't need to hide behind the EU.

Meanwhile trade agreements with the UK will rise, and notions of mobility will ease. If the youth learn to help their neighbours instead of deriding them maybe even some local opportunities can present themselves.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"Economists have raised similar concerns about Trump, who has threatened to slap huge tariffs on imports from China and Mexico. Those tariffs would likely raise costs for U.S. consumers,"

Yeah, we Americans like all this cheap stuff from China and Mexico, and we hate factory jobs, lol

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"Britons who only hold UK citizenship may end up becoming a disadvantaged underclass when it comes to finding jobs at multinational companies"

Just like Canadians. They cant work anywhere, except in their own limited economy -- way smaller than Britain's! -- without a visa -- not even in their next-door neighbour! And they're really a disadvantaged underclass.

Well, apart from having one of the world's highest living standards.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

The banks that will leave were never going to support or help the rest of the country anyway

Except, you know, though paying taxes. Financial services was, what 12% of GDP? Oops.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

TRUMP PREY's EVERY DAY. Today he Preys on the Fear of Immigrants. Tommorrow he will Prey on the Fear of Muslims. Monday he will Prey on the Mexican Catholics who are all Rapists and Drug Dealers. On Tuesday, He will Prey on the all the people who lost 1.6 TRILLION dollars and buy up their properties. Trump even PREYED on wannabe PREYERS of TRUMP University. I now understand why all the Christian Right Leaders in the U.S. are saying he is their man and we should support his PREYING.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"It has brought together two groups who had never really met before. The first group are the social and moral conservatives, whose views the Blairised Tory Party despised, while it still relied on their money and their votes. The second are the working-class families whose votes the Blairised Labour Party relied on, while it dismissed and ignored their concerns."

There is some truth in that and many of those disaffected people turned to UKIP. I'm from a red-hot Labour area of the UK completely ignored by Blair's Labour Party while taking their votes and as you'd expect, the Tories were also quite happy to see rot. Labour lost in 2010 partly because the working-class didn't bother voting.

What could be interesting is what happens to UKIP now that they've got their 'independence'.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@JeffLee

Just like Canadians. They cant work anywhere, except in their own limited economy -- way smaller than Britain's! -- without a visa -- not even in their next-door neighbour! And they're really a disadvantaged underclass. Well, apart from having one of the world's highest living standards

Canada is not post-Brexit Europe for fairly obvious reasons. Canadians are free to work in every province and employers have absolutely not expectation that you can legally work in the America. Dual Canadian/US citizenship is rare and a single labour market between the two countries has never existed.

If you really want to compare the two, just imagine that Quebec became a separate country and that Quebecers had to apply for a work visa in each individual province (not just one visa for all of Canada). Now imagine that a sizeable portion of Quebecers actually had both Canadian and Quebec dual citizenship. Wouldn't you agree that those who don't have dual nationality are at a significantly disadvantage in the job market? This is the situation that those who only hold British citizenship will be in if freedom of movement comes to an end.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

If half a dozen countries line up for trade agreements with Quebec not available in the rest of Canada then that sense of mobility loss is reduced as new opportunities arise. Thus creating pressure like an European Economic Area for Canada.

The analogy dies though because UK is an island, had been a separate power before, and at least has living memory left of standing up for itself that a younger generation has clearly no idea about.

Stricter visa control reduces terrorism perception except for the home grown crazies but also slows down the acquisition of foreign employees. Thus providing a local incentive to hire locally first, then if no success, then hire abroad.

If there's no cost to employees then there's no such thing as a country and people just drift between corporations. Asserting value of people and nation over corporations is always a good day.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Typical example of people blaming everyone else but themselves, instead of taking any responsibility and learning from their own failures.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

@Triumvere

Except, you know, though paying taxes. Financial services was, what 12% of GDP? Oops.

Precisely how out of whack UK had become. Still didn't help people and all that? Disgraceful.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The Swiss have never joined the EU and enjoy a higher standard of living than any of its member states.

CH is a tiny country that does not promote let alone desire immigration.

Gaijin living in Japan think they are discriminated against? It is nothing compared to what non-whites face living in CH.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@sf2k,

Precisely how out of whack UK had become. Still didn't help people and all that? Disgraceful.

I'm afraid I didn't parse that one properly. What were you trying to say?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

What could be interesting is what happens to UKIP now that they've got their 'independence'.

Indeed. Will they kindly Foxtrot Oscar, or what will their next headline single-issue be?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

How does the economy become cripple like the article say? I think the special needs in better for economy than cripple. when speaking so people are caring for feelings. Does the economy of the Trump become rich because he is rich family father?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

In the end, it may make the core countries of the E.U stronger. If large companies and the banks get out of London and move to Paris of Frankfurt. It could actually be a great thing for France and Germany and therefore solidify the E.U....providing the National Front doesn't take over France.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

This stems from the austerity programs of the Conservative Party, echoed in the republican party in the USA, to basically screw over the working class in favor of corporate greed. The perverse thing is that the screwed over population cannot connect the dots and see it is the bankers and their slaves in government who have made their lives horrible, not immigrants. It is a bait and switch operation that the undereducated (Trump loves them) cannot figure out. So they vote to make their lives worse under racist immoral leadership instant of corrupt and and greedy leadership. Bernie of course is the exception to this in that he does identify who the villains are, not some mechanic from Poland or a Mexican picking lettuce. Most of the rightwing nuts who post on this board will not understand my post at all which will just prove my point.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Well, I'm no rightwing nut, and I think you're really off base with your opinion. I do agree with you...

it is the bankers and their slaves in government who have made their lives horrible

but disagree about...

the screwed over population cannot connect the dots

then you throw in the typical insult, undereducated along with the typical talking points abut Trump, immigrants and racism.

But you're wrong. Trump has been quite clear about his suspicions of the integrity of the Federal Reserve and open about how Wall Street controls DC.

Not immigrants! Illegal immigrants. There is a big difference. The illegal immigrant issue is a vote getter, I agree, but it is also an economic drain on our country, and Dems and Reps have done nothing really to stop it. Why NOT use it. Smart politics if you ask me.

Furthermore, and most shocking of all, is bringing Bernie into this. He has now said he supports Hillary who is by far, a larger threat to the average American family as far as Wall Street and her warmongering ways than Trump is.

Trump is running on the Republican Party ticket, but he is not part of the Republican establishment and it makes you look desperate trying to make that connection, IMHO.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Bernie of course is the exception to this in that he does identify who the villains are

Bernie Sanders is as anti open border and bringing low-wage labor of all levels into this country as anyone. He would make the country in the image of the 10 poorest cities in the country that have all have Democratic mayors for 50 or 100+ years but not with unlimited illegal immigration.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I watch news in pT zone so following info may be too old. Three long time influential Republican conservative people announced that they will no longest being with republican Party because of Trump and supporting Hillary.

Sanders said he will work with his various agendas to Hillary.

Obama attack about Trump. He means well maybe, but I think he and Warren should let Hillary does Trump attack by herself. He is doing name calling Trump is bigotry. He hasn't said things we don't know.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The illegal immigrant issue is a vote getter, I agree, but it is also an economic drain on our country, and Dems and Reps have done nothing really to stop it.

That statement is patently false and is part of the rightwing anti-immigrant propaganda. The same stuff that was used in the UK this week The fact is that illegal immigrants in the USA are there because they are doing work that no Americans wants to do. A farm advertised for months for workers to pick lettuce in CA, not a single response. Cleaning pools and doing gardening, are you kidding me? And again the fact is that these people have taxes withheld from their salaries and get zero benefit. So they are subsidising USA citizens. Again, they would not be in the USA if USA companies did not give them jobs. And they give them jobs cause Americans do not want to do such difficult labor.

Trump is running on the Republican Party ticket, but he is not part of the Republican establishment and it makes you look desperate trying to make that connection, IMHO.

He ran as a republican and has won as a republican. He is going to the republican convention next month. What part of that sentence confuses you about his party identity. If he runs as a third party candidate then your point might make sense. He is running as a republican.

Bernie Sanders is as anti open border and bringing low-wage labor of all levels into this country as anyone.

This is factually wrong as well, Bernie supports a path to citizenship for long term immigrants. Do some homework on the man. Hs is 100% opposed to Trump and his racist ways. He is Jewish, not a WASP like Trump who hates others.

He would make the country in the image of the 10 poorest cities in the country that have all have Democratic mayors for 50 or 100+ years but not with unlimited illegal immigration.

Like San Francisco? Or New York? Or LA? At a state level the bottom ten out ten poorest states are republican dominated states. Another fact, I know conservatives hate them, for you to deal with.

Shooting down republican talking points is so easy, so remarkably easy. What amazes me is they somehow get used to being wrong all the time.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

This is factually wrong as well, Bernie supports a path to citizenship for long term immigrants. Do some homework on the man. Hs is 100% opposed to Trump and his racist ways. He is Jewish, not a WASP like Trump who hates others.

He is for amnesty but supports the idea that immigrants coming to the U.S. are taking jobs and hurting the economy and is not for letting more illegals in.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The straw that broke the camel back for the voting public in UK was 100,000 immigrants per year and Jihadist terrorism related threats in Europe. If EU especially Merkel stopped and reversed the Middle East immigrant policy, UK voters would had voted Stay. Likewise this applies for the rest of EU nations. The world had lived with other globalization factors for many years.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The straw that broke the camel back for the voting public in UK was ...

From everything I've read, there was no single straw that broke the camels back. Some voted because of migrants, some voted because of economics, and some voted simply because they don't like the EU

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Like San Francisco? Or New York? Or LA?

I don't know about San Francisco but New York and Los Angeles have had Republican mayors in the last 10 to 15 years.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

For once in their lives the economically disenfranchised were able to taste the sweet smell of power having been allowed a counterfeit vote to put a make-believe end to their years of pain and suffering while wallowing in nostalgia for a mythical ye olde England before the arrival of the immigrant hordes. They were made to believe by the right-wing gutter press that their hurt could be avenged by pulling the plug on the educated and moneyed elites who had looked down on them and mocked them from the stinking dunghill of class privilege. Their exhilaration as they stuck it to their "betters" was palpable, but the back-to-the-future Brexit vote has apparently left some with a bad taste in the mouth, a big "Bregret", the political equivalent of post-coital tristesse. Like Samson they have brought down the "Faulty Towers" of the UK's crumbling social contract onto the heads of the whole rotten political establishment who are running around like Chicken Little in a panic. But as the French are wont to say, "plus ca change", and so I have always believed that the ruling classes will soon recover their senses and end the charade of this referendum by smoothing the ruffled feathers of their EU chums and returning to business as usual. The question remains, though: have they let the genie out of the bottle? Can the duped electorate be "rebottled", or is the path open to an unprecedented upheaval of the social order?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Believe me, if this Brexit turned out to be worse for the UK (most likely if guys like Farange leads the country), then the ones who voted to leave are going to blame the rest of Europe for something like "They're shunning us......that's why" or some other bogus thing like. If they don't learn and take responsibilities, then they'll never fix the REAL problem.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

From everything I've read, there was no single straw that broke the camels back. Some voted because of migrants, some voted because of economics, and some voted simply because they don't like the EU

Some voted out of respect for the Queen, while others simply don't like to be told what to do.

"The Queen of England reportedly asked dinner guests earlier this week to give her three good reasons the U.K. should remain in the EU. “I still think lots of people listen to what she says,” said Carol Wyce, turning to her daughter. “Her saying that is going to sway a lot of England, isn’t it?”

"Barack Obama’s April visit to the U.K. was “really, really bad for the Remain side around here,” said Richard Everett, a local government official for the UKIP. Mr. Obama, who warned Britons against voting against EU membership, “was our trump card,” said Mr. Everett, 57, who is a self-employed handyman. “The British don’t like being told what to do. Never have, never will.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/town-at-the-heart-of-u-k-euroskepticism-celebrates-brexit-result-1466855589

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Congrats to the UK for registering their independence.

Remember back when the EU was called the EEC, it was a simple economic partnership, based on trade and business. It has since mutated into a multiheaded monster which demands social conformity and is bent on eliminating the unique culture of its members. The Brits don't want to be European. They want to do business, but also maintain their identity.

As for the argument about illegal immigration being good for an economy, that is nonsense. It drives down wages, and also hurts the lower classes of the host country. Illegals compete for jobs and win because they are willing to accept substandard wages. Remove them, and the subsequent tightening of the labour market would create opportunities for legal residents. It may force businesses to offer higher wages for crap jobs, but there is nothing wrong with that.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The fact is that illegal immigrants in the USA are there because they are doing work that no Americans wants to do.

Wrong again. Legal immigrants working in the US get Green cards. This gives them every right a citizen has, except to vote. Companies that hire them pay taxes and so do the holders, but they have rights, and can also collect Social Security after 10 years of work. Illegal immigrants are paid in cash, no taxes, but still get a lot of free medical benefits, this is a needless drain on our economy. And with all the ETB card free money, I'm not surprised the farmers can't find any workers.

What part of that sentence confuses you about his party identity.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Watch some of his speeches, and stop relying on the corporate MSM for you're opinions, because his words totally contradicts your opinion. You do know the meaning of the "establishment" right?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

"You have no idea what you're talking about. Watch some of his speeches, and stop relying on the corporate MSM for you're opinions, because his words totally contradicts your opinion." - comments

Strange, with Donald J. Trump saying so many interesting things about everything that isn't his concern, who can provide any quote of Mr. Trump's genius?

The tactic that Trump is a brilliant loser no one listens to is pure comedy.

Have one of these assumed brilliant ideas ever been heard by anyone except the Trump-aholic?

Why not simply offer a Trump genius quote with attribution.

Hearing how smart Trump is, is like listening to Trump tell an audience how smart he is.

Provide a quote, provide an attribution and what is so great about it?

Not too much to ask of the true believer so concerned with how Trump can save America with a little racism and prejudice as a kicker.

Somehow the down trodden, Trump is trying so valiantly to con, haven't a list of Trump's great ideas handy?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"Dump Trump"

But that would mean nominating the Republican candidate with by far the mosr delegates after Trump, Ted Cruz, lol.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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