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Beijing in lockdown for 25th anniversary of Tiananmen crackdown

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Should be fun.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Right - you know what is great ,though - pro-democracy advocates, survivors of Tiananmen massacre and othesr will continue to - fearlessly, courageously, at great risk to their safety - raise their voices inside China , in Hong Kong and elsewhere.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It's a pity the unelected Chinese dictatorship do not have a correct understanding of the historical facts, preferring instead to spread lies whilst they fill their bank accounts with the proceeds of corruption.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

PRC will now try to lecture the world about "correctness of history".

/grab popcorn and sits back

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Wikipedia says:

A declassified NSA cable filed on the same day estimated 180-500 deaths up to the morning of June 4. Amnesty International's estimates puts the number of deaths at several hundred to close to 1,000, while a Western diplomat that compiled estimates put the number at 300 to 1,000.

Note that the vast majority of these were Beijing college students, the cream of their generation. If this is not cause for "being very emotional," I don't know what is.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Doesn't seem many are interested in this story despite it's importance.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Maybe because this site is japantoday basher, not chinatoday. We already get too much news about china and Korea in Japan as it is.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I still remember watching the footage. It gave me chills then, and still does today. One guy, having a standoff with a line of tanks. It was unthinkable then. Looking back, I'm amazed the footage made it out of China in the first place. This was long before mobile phones, internet, instant news, etc.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Maybe because this site is japantoday basher, not chinatoday. We already get too much news about china and Korea in Japan as it is.

But Japan Today has a "World" section. Also, China's state of affairs influence Japan.

And the rest of humanity if we're talking about a change in politics there, even if it still appears some way off.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

25 years have passed and China still can't face up to it's own history. The world should remember this every-time China whinges at Japan about it's historical deeds.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

'25 years have passed and China still can't face up to it's own history. The world should remember this every-time China whinges at Japan about it's historical deeds.'

I think most reasonable people would agree that whitewashing and obfuscation should be below any nation.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I still remember watching the footage. It gave me chills then, and still does today. One guy, having a standoff with a line of tanks. It was unthinkable then.

Do you think Tiananmen could happen again today?

I get the impression that young people in China today might just say "meh.." if they learned about Tiananmen. They seem much more nationalistic, proud, greedy and inward looking as compared to the idealistic Tiananmen students.

If it happend again today, I think 'tank man' would be squashed like a bug without any hesitation by the driver, and it would be cheered by the ordinary people.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

OldHawkJun. 04, 2014 - 04:12PM JST

I still remember watching the footage. It gave me chills then, and still does today. One guy, having a standoff with a line of tanks. It was unthinkable then. Looking back, I'm amazed the footage made it out of China in the first place. This was long before mobile phones, internet, instant news, etc.

Tank man with his twin shopping bags staring down a tank platoon is still one of the most powerful images that annoys the CCP even today. And so it should. I wonder what happened to him, though.

'25 years have passed and China still can't face up to it's own history. The world should remember this every-time China whinges at Japan about it's historical deeds.' I think most reasonable people would agree that whitewashing and obfuscation should be below any nation.

Amen to that. Let it be a remembrance to everyone to have the courage to face the truth, no matter how unpleasant it is.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Yes indeed, but the hypocrisy of the Chinese government annoys me immensely, especially given the fact that their misdeeds happened in my generation, and their government remains in power to this day.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

fxgai, I know what you mean. I find it personally offensive, especially when my extended family keeps on going on about nonsense about how 6/4 was "justified", and that it was all a plot hatched by "foreign forces".. LOL.

I've been called a traitor, hanjian etc because I didn't tow the line, but I don't really care :-) Anything the CCP says that is banned, I do, read, act etc.

There's no excuse for a loss of life because of a difference in political views. I don't buy the crap about how the US has done this or that, that has no bearing on what went on in China that day.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Time for the young Chinese to rise up and start another Tiananmen event. Topple the aggressive and corrupted regime to join the free world of peace and prosperity...

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If it happend again today, I think 'tank man' would be squashed like a bug without any hesitation by the driver, and it would be cheered by the ordinary people.

There's no way to know, for now, as that man remains unidentified, and we haven't heard from soldiers who were in the tank column either, why the tanks stopped instead of just proceeding. But it's naive to think there's much of a difference between how this would be handled today and how such things were handled then. People were crushed by tanks and APCs. People were also shot in broad daylight after the night the square was cleared. It was filmed, and those of us who saw this on the news at the time aren't going to forget those scenes. It's covered in this documentary, from about the 30 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNtA8RZ1FAA

At the very least, hundreds of people were killed in Beijing. One guy standing in front of a tank is spared - whether on a whim, on orders given to the tank crews about how to behave before they moved in, suddenly faced with an unexpected situation and uncertain about what the orders were, or for some other reason doesn't really matter. The context in which it occurred was a night and a day of slaughter.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

'Time for the young Chinese to rise up and start another Tiananmen event. Topple the aggressive and corrupted regime to join the free world of peace and prosperity...'

Those who do rise up tend to get locked up or shot. Those drumming out the sub-Hollywood lines of breathing the free air of democracy lines need to spend a little time in China. There are many dissidents which the western press loves to highlight but the majority of Chinese are prepared to tolerate the corrupt cronies at the CCP as long as they provide the two things the vast majority of Chinese people want - increasing prosperity and unity. Of course the majority of Chinese want greater freedom but an uprising of the scale you're talking about will most likely come from an economic collapse or further increasing wage disparity ( maybe western countries of peace and prosperity should take note ) rather than increased rights.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Beijing in lockdown for 25th anniversary of Tiananmen crackdown

The Communist Party fears the people. The Communist Party can only press their jackboot across the people's neck for so long before they try and push you off.

Only a matter of time, only a matter of time....

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I sometimes wonder if there are any Chinese youth reading news of this sort outside their country and I wonder what they are thinking. I bet they don't want to go back to China. Lots of them are here in Japan and I heard from one of them that he would try to stay in Japan and seek permanent status and bring his parents over here if he could.

Do these young kids really understand how lucky they are to be outside China? Do they realize that their communist government is keeping all this news on Tiananmen away from them? Most of them come here to Japan and hear about it.

I've always wondered why these Chinese abroad could never muster forces and organize like the Cubans did in Miami when Castro took over Cuba. They combined forces to lobby the US to pass economic sanctions against their "homeland" hoping to overthrow Castro. Why can't the Chinese in Japan and the US do something similar?

Answer: They like to leave these political agenda up to others while they make concentrate on making as much money as they can. Even abroad they are Chinese first.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Only a matter of time, only a matter of time....

You're right Joe.

Nothing, good or bad, lasts forever. Remember the Soviets? They went away. (Well, Putin is trying to change things back to the bad old days, but let's see how that turns out for him).

Looking back, it all seemed so sudden. Even though it took a few years, it really happened. The CCP's day will come too like you say.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Beijing in lockdown for 25th anniversary of Tiananmen crackdown

Human basic desire to the freedom (human rights) cannot be killed. Beijing is the last one to know this simple truth. Just stupid.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

When I was growing up here in the U.S. my Chinese friends had parents who were either from Taiwan or Hong Kong, or had otherwise managed to escape from the mainland. They had nothing but horrible things to say about the "communists" who took so many lives and the property of so many. Today there are generations of Americans of Chinese descent who are oblivious to this history, even as recent as June 4, 1989. Some of them support China with a misguided sense of ethnic pride without realizing how much their forefathers suffered, or how many patriotic Chinese are still suffering today at the hands of the CCP one party dictatorship. They buy the CCP propaganda and post anti-Jpn comments on internet news forums.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

RIP to all the souls who had the courage to stand up to China and its useless system of governance 25 years ago! To those who were murdered and whose perpetrators still do not face justice. To those who raised awareness around the world to effect the downfall of a country whose doctrine and ideas are fading and dying year by year. A country with a disgusting human rights record which still tries to poison the world with its lies, pollution and failures. China can have a hissy fit all it likes but no amount of lying or money can change the fact that China is one of the most despised countries in the world. As it fails to eradicate the memory of its crimes 25 years ago, China is one of a handful of countries still clinging to communism while it collapses around it. As China pollutes itself to death, it will also become the latest victim of its own internal struggle, thanks largely in part to the Internet. China, once great has become a member of the few countries who are least respected in the world. If they think they are so great, why do all their so-called elite send their children to British and American schools? Why do they drive German cars? Why do they come to Japan in droves buying baby Pampers and Japanese brands that are available in Beijing and Shanghai? Why do they have huge political and territorial disputes with all their neighbors. (North Korea excepted because they feed it and need it to prevent democratic change on their doorstep). When you die China, if you expect any sympathy from anyone, hadn't you better change your tune first?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The main reason the CCP is tolerated in China is economic. Many of my Chinese friends in and outside China often tell me that a single-party system with a long term economic strategy is better suited to a developing economy rather than one which is constantly changing direction and the stat that the CCP lifted 800 million out of poverty is often cited ( the millions slaughtered under Mao doesn't often warrant a mention). They also remind me that the US and UK achieved their economic take-off at a time of very limited voting rights ( they also tell me that China didn't use slaves to help with this take-off ). I certainly don't buy all these arguments but the image of a government universally despised by the Chinese people doesn't hold water. As I mentioned before, the CCP is delivering economic growth and rising living standards but if it stops delivering, then we'll see something dramatic.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

For communist China, many things are under the carpet by putting forward a fake smiling face. One day, Chinese will understand and taste "FREEDOM ", but the path will be paved with many sacrifices; can they?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

the image of a government universally despised by the Chinese people doesn't hold water

The contempt for the government is growing. Of course, there's no statistics to prove this because... communism.

But you can read what's being posted on forums. Not only people are upset, they're brave enough and smart enough to get their message across, despite the best efforts of the government and the potential, and very real, penalties that are a fact of life there for dissension. Why not participate in the forums and tell the folk that actually live there such nonsense?

Are you suggesting the people of Tibet and Uighur are happy campers too? Go there in person and waffle on. Let's see how the locals react.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Reformedbasher Which part of 'not universally despised' don't you understand? Yes, there are many who want rid of the government in China and there are many who don't. Are you arguing otherwise? I was speaking of my experience in China, about 18 months all-in-all, and my reading about the country. The picture I get from very many is hardly love of the CCP but tolerance as long as they deliver economic growth and unity. I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Jimizo

Which part of 'not universally despised' don't you understand?

Let me answer your question with your own words.

The picture I get from very many is hardly love of the CCP but tolerance as long as they deliver economic growth and unity.

I think we can agree that tolerance is hardly admiration or even satisfaction.

As for economic growth and unity, China may be an economic "powerhouse" at the moment but a) they're not making many friends, aside from Mr. Putin, and this will have a major impact and b) you must have walked around with your eyes closed not to notice those who didn't "benefit", and as for c), you didn't mention Tibet or Uighur, 2 glaring and hardly inconsequential examples of non-conformity.

Regions trying to breakaway (that should never have been part of China in the first place). Incidences of protests and terrorism that are not going to go away.

Desperately poor people who try all kinds of scam just to survive.

"Chengguan" universally loathed, bullying locals and occasionally getting killed for their trouble.

According to the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (which is in China by the way, an official government body who can survey the entire country, and whom I'm going to believe before I listen to a temporary visitor)...

http://shanghaiist.com/2014/06/02/chengguan-chinas-most-unpopular-public-officials.php

Hardly a rose garden. Maybe that's why people risk their lives to emigrate or protest or both.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

OssanAmericaJun. 04, 2014 - 11:43PM JST

When I was growing up here in the U.S. my Chinese friends had parents who were either from Taiwan or Hong Kong, or had otherwise managed to escape from the mainland. They had nothing but horrible things to say about the "communists" who took so many lives and the property of so many. Today there are generations of Americans of Chinese descent who are oblivious to this history, even as recent as June 4, 1989. Some of them support China with a misguided sense of ethnic pride without realizing how much their forefathers suffered, or how many patriotic Chinese are still suffering today at the hands of the CCP one party dictatorship. They buy the CCP propaganda and post anti-Jpn comments on internet news forums.

And some of them are truly sucked in. They bought the CCP propaganda and gave up their high paying jobs here in US and went back to China. They have not came back to the States. Pathetic!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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