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Biden condemns new Israeli settlement plan

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Just stop bankrolling them to the tune of $60 billion a year and use the money to bail out California. After all, has California ever caused you to go to war? Has California ever sent assassins into your country? No??? Well stop being pro-zionist America.

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Hmmm, the Israelis have been sticking two fingers up at America since before Bush got dumped. It would seem they know they've got enough nukes and other weaponry to be untouchable now, so they no longer need to kowtow to the US in exchange for technology and weapons.

America, please learn from this and all the other US-sponsored disasters, it's a really bad idea to arm a nation in the belief that they'll help you keep another nation or nations under control. The pet dog sometimes bites you.

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Nothing new with this. Israel is led by a bunch of liars. Everybody who has two brain cells could have expected this action. < :-)

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Over the years I have met many people of Jewish heritage who are anti-zionist. And I think it is very important to separate Jewish heritage and Israeli Zionism. They are not one in the same.

For too long Israel has claimed anti-semitism against anyone who disagrees with their middle east policies. But the facts are that Israel and their political policies do not represent Judaism or the Jewish people beyond those who hold its nationality.

This new policy is indeed contrary to peace efforts. As have most of their policies over the years. As long as these policies continue, people will die in that region. Plain and simple.

The US should withdraw all support from Israel and end our pro-Zionist position. We should leave Israel to fend for itself and more actively work with other nations in the region to find solutions to problems. Perhaps this will teach the clearly fascist leaders of Israel that they should cooperate for peace of face consequences.

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U.S. Vice President Joe Biden condemned an Israeli plan to build hundreds of homes in disputed east Jerusalem

Get a clue, Joe. Jerusalem is part of Israel now. Israel is not going back to having East Jerusalem controlled by the Muslim Arabs, who denied Jews access to their holy sites. Israel would be better off not accepting U.S. aid so they wouldn't have to listen to buffoons like Joe Biden.

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I agree with a poster above; until you stop giving them so much money and weapons every year, 'condemning' them won't mean a thing. They'll just whine about racism and keep doing what they are doing.

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About time someone in the US government stands up to Israel.

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Helter, OMG, they denied Jews access to holy sites?! That's terrible! How did the Israelis manage to get by? Why now I see it! The Palestinians deserve to be totally disenfranchised for such a crime against humanity! Bring on the white phosphorus, the jet planes, the tanks and the bombs! No Palestinian child could possibly suffer as much as an Israeli denied access to a holy site!

Biden is there to patch up ties? I think he should cut the umbilical cord!

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Just stop bankrolling them to the tune of $60 billion a year and use the money to bail out California

This is good advice. I agree.

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We've given Israel since 1948 over 104 trillion dollars.They also receive in grant form, annually, $1400.00 for every man,woman,& child.A US Regulation also prohibits providing aid to a country that has Nuclear weapons and not a member of the NPT unless the President waivers the regulation. Palestinians live like caged animals, little food, poor housing situation, and no jobs, all because of Israel and the undying but blind support for Israel. Why complain about Iran wanting nuclear power and nothing mentioned about Israel? US needs to be an honest mediator and politicians need to stop taking campaign funds from Israel, & AIPAC, THE ARM of Israel.

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Adamwesti, you say that Palestinians live like caged animals? But I was told they were given control of Gaza etc.and I am sure someone will be along soon to tell us that, because they don't know what a blocade or a military occupation is apparently. Some of them have not moved beyond 2005!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories

Although Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza in September 2005, it has held the territory under the blockade at various times since June 2007 and is considered the occupying power in the Gaza Strip by the United Nations, the United States, the United Kingdom and various human rights organizations. Israel is considered the current occupying power of the Golan Heights, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.

My bold.

There is little international support for Israel's claim that Jerusalem is its undivided capital.

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US should definitely, at the very least, put an immediate end to the financial and military aid to Israel. But the US leaders will NEVER do that, because a significant chunk of that money finds its way back in the use, where it is used to get certain people elected, to make others lose elections, to get certain bills passed.

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You would think that people who have been chased off land and treated like crap woudn't do the same to others but yet... they do. And they can't figure out why most people distrust them and dislike them.

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I don't know why the Israelis can't stop provoking the Palistianians. It would seem that the point is to just annex the whole west bank. It's nuts. I'm no lover of Hamas but you can't keep sticking it to people like is being done and not have something happen.

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Obviously, this is a counterproductive move on the part of Israel. It does not matter whether Netanyahu was 'broadsided' by the announcement. It is not the announcement that is the problem. It is the construction, if it ever happens that is the problem.

However, if the US does not get Hamas involved in any peace negotiations, if they ever get peace negotiations going again, they will not be very fruitful negotiations.

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Ok, I understand this. Its really nothing new. Israel claims, Jerusalem. Pals want it for themselves. Admittedly this could have been timed better, but if Jerusalem is not, and never will be negotiable, and by all accounts it isn't, then making a fuss over them building there is a nonstarter. Building houses there, while upsetting for the Pals, is nothing. Now if they were building more in the West Bank, or in Gaza, where they've completely pulled out, that would be something, but Jerusalem...

Golan is almost certainly never going to be out of Israels hands. After what Syria did from it, thats almost out of the question.

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If Israel loses Jerusalem, isn't that basically the end of Judaism?

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You can say whatever you want about Israel, but at least get your numbers straight. $60 billion a year? $104 trillion dollars since 1948? Are you guys simply misinformed or (more likely) trying to stir up anti-Israeli sentiment among Americans by grossly inflating the real figures? The real numbers ... get ready ... are 3 to 4 billion per year and approximately $101 billion since 1949, or about 1/1,000 of what Adamwesti posted.(Figures submitted by the U.S. congress, and as seen on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_aid_to_Israel.gif)

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Latest news is Israel told Biden to take a long stroll off the short pier.

Can you blame Israel? Brazil, China, Iran, France - no one takes the Obama administration seriously.

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Its really nothing new. Israel claims, Jerusalem. Pals want it for themselves. Admittedly this could have been timed better, but if Jerusalem is not, and never will be negotiable, and by all accounts it isn't, then making a fuss over them building there is a nonstarter.

The UNSC and even the International Court of Justice have ruled that the land taken in 1967 belongs to the Palestinians. These Occupied Palestinian Territories, which include Gaza, all of West Bank and East Jerusalem it belongs to the Palestinians NOW; it is not disputed land and it does not have to be negotiated. Its occupation by Israel is completely illegal.

This is also recognized by an international consensus; with only Israel, US, and a few tiny Pacific Islands rejecting it.

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Sabi, why do the jews want East Jerusalem?

There are numerous illegal activities going on in the world, killings, undisputed genocides. Why is this issue and only this issue that causes you to lose sleep and not the others?

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Equality said: You can say whatever you want about Israel, but at least get your numbers straight.

http://www.wrmea.com/us_aid_to_israel/index.htm

Okay. You say 101 billion since 1947? Well, this site says 74 trillion, with a "T". That is total aid grants and loans as of 1997. However, since Congress has forgiven Israel's loans and they have not paid one shekel back, calling it a loan is DISHONEST. The money is not coming back to American taxpayers. EVER. The chart you sited did not account for those loans that were actually grants. Its the oldest accounting trick in the book. To add to the "hidden grants" many different U.S. government agencies also give and gave to Israel.

I have no doubt the 74 trillion quote is too high, and probably includes interest that I think is dishonest and does not tell us what was actually given. But the Congressional Research Committee figure you give us is surely too low for the reasons I have given and more, and is equally dishonest.

There is no "correct" figure. All we can say with certainty is that the American taxpayers fork over to the Israelis like no one else. Billions starting with a B and ending with an S. And it is BS! I don't want them to get American billions any more. Do you?

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Equality, i agree it is only loose change America gives to support Israels ethnic cleansing by bulldozing arabs homes and building "settlements".

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I don't want to diminish the amount of money that the U.S. provides to Israel. Obviously billions of dollars are a lot of money. I just wanted to point out the B.S. that some people use to make their arguments and prey on the ignorant. (Not unlike your comment about ethnic cleansing.) I do agree with you that the Israeli government should stop building settlements though, as this obviously drives the two sides further apart.

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Sabiwabi - The UNSC and even the International Court of Justice have ruled that the land taken in 1967 belongs to the Palestinians. These Occupied Palestinian Territories, which include Gaza, all of West Bank and East Jerusalem it belongs to the Palestinians NOW; it is not disputed land and it does not have to be negotiated. Its occupation by Israel is completely illegal.

Nonsense. Gaza belonged to Egypt, they have given up their claim to it. West Bank belonged to Jordan, likewise they have given up their claim to it. Syria has never relinquished its claim on the Golan Heights. And Palestinians are a nation in waiting. A nation, that at present does not exist. Thus the lands you claim are 'occupied' by Israel, are in fact, apart from Golan, not belonging to any country. Any land Israel chooses to cede to an eventual Palestinian country is up to them to decide. As the former owners of the land have relinquished claim, it belongs to the country that claims it. That country presently is Israel.

Israel claims East Jerusalem, its that simple. The pals want it for their eventual state, but if Israel chooses not to cede it, then the debate is over. They will probably keep other portions of the West Bank as well. Again, while you can argue, and claim they're illegally occupying the land, thats really not the case.

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Nonsense. Gaza belonged to Egypt, they have given up their claim to it. West Bank belonged to Jordan,

Hmmm, someone here does not know anything about international law. Hmmm, lets see, is it the UNSC and the International Court of Justice (unanimous, by the way) or is it Molenir. Tough question, I'll have to think about it...

Truth is, there is NO debate on the illegality of the so-called "settlements". That land belongs to the Palestinians, NOW.

About the aid given to Israel, if you add up all the aid (financial, loans, military,...) America gave to Israel, I'm sure its over a Trillion.

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And you base that on what? Hmmm, lets see .... a total guess.

And why are you even arguing about Gaza? Israel unilaterally withdrew from there in the summer of 2005.

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Mr Netanyahu repeated an Israeli demand that the Palestinians recognise Israel as a Jewish state. They have rejected that.

Firstly, the terms of establishment of israel clearly indicate that it is to be a secular entity, not a Jewish state. Bibi is therefore in violation of that term of establishment. And the Palestinians are not obliged to bow to that threatening demand.

Secondly, israel always ups the anti, by raising the bar and adding more and more conditions each time the previously newly-set conditions are met.

"With such an announcement, how can you build trust?"

That's right Bibi, when you decide to build more settlements, how can you build trust? Especially now that your engineers are undermining the Al Aqsa mosque while you're chit-chatting with Biden, all the while lying to his face. Trust Bibi? Never!

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And why are you even arguing about Gaza? Israel unilaterally withdrew from there in the summer of 2005.

But they still control it. They prevent people, medicines, food,... from going in and out. They block humanitarian aid ships in international waters heading to Gaza. So your comment is completely meaningless. Gazans are poorly treated prisoners.

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Possession is 9/10ths of the law, looks like Israel possesses Jerusalem...Palestinians want to whine about, and Biden wants to give the squeaky wheel the grease. Good on Israel for holding firm. The country is small enough as it is without being carved up any further.

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My bad equality. You are right about the numbers. But all those billions to Israel definitely is not something that makes me happy. In fact, it makes me angry. All the things those billions can do. Instead it gets flushed down the toilet of the Israeli war machine.

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Equality, where I made a mistake about the numbers, you make a mistake about Gaza. 2005 ended in 2006, but it really ended in 2007! Gaza Strip is blocaded by land, sea and air and its been on the whole time and only increased in scale in 2007. Removal of troops from Gaza Strip was nice, sort of like removing the guards from the prison. It hardly makes the prisoners free though, does it? And I repeat from above: Israel is considered the current occupying power of the Golan Heights, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip. You don't actually need boots on the ground to be in control.

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is it the UNSC and the International Court of Justice...

In reality it is neither. Israel was attacked and took the territory in question in a bona-fide war. There is nothing to be done but whine about that. As a counterpoint; if the Arab attack had succeeded and Israel ended up with no territory left, even though the mandate for their existance had come from the UN General Assembly in 1947, what would (or could) the UN have done? I suggest nothing.

On the other hand if Israel wants peace with the Palistinians then building more settlements is counterproductive. The conclusion is obvious. Is anybody really surprised?

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On the other hand if Israel wants peace with the Palistinians then building more settlements is counterproductive. The conclusion is obvious. Is anybody really surprised?

Again, not really but considering that Israel has stated repeatedly and unequivocally, that Jerusalem, whole and entire is theirs, and will remain theirs, them building new buildings in east Jerusalem is not really a surprise. In point of fact, the number of Israeli residents in East Jerusalem is very nearly the same as the number of Palestinians. Its more then obvious the direction Israel is going here. We can expect to see more building in East Jerusalem.

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When you talk $Billion given to Israel don't forget the $30Billion that bush gave Israel across 10 years, above all else. < :-)

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Well, well well, israeli news sources (Haaretz, JPost and the like) are giving Bibi's reaction to Biden's comments. It amounts to "Terribly sorry you feel that way, old chap, so P.F.O. if you don't mind! We're building, like it or not. (Oh! Keep the cheques coming, old boy! There's a good lad.)"

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2005 ended in 2006, but it really ended in 2007!

Possibly I am the only one. If so, so be it. However, what is this supposed to mean?

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adaydream: When you talk $Billion given to Israel don't forget the $30Billion that bush gave Israel across 10 years, above all else.

And don't forget the nearly $30 billion that Bush gave to Jordan and Egypt across 10 years. Funny how you leave that out.

HeyLars: OMG, they denied Jews access to holy sites?! That's terrible!

Imagine if the Jews barred Muslims from visiting the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. You'd be ranting about racism and the horrible injustice of it. Political hypocrisy is what they call it.

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I don't see Jordan or Egypt breaking agreements. I didn't see Israel attempting to wipe out their neighbor. < :-)

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Politics and religion, just that wonderful combo to have it peppered with a big of violence, a bit of blood and gore, oh yes! What a sad state of affairs for this part of the world, for what? For HOLY LAND? The Jews consider the Arabs as terrorists, the rest of the Middle East consider Israel something like the fly in your milk? Ok, so where is god now? I am asking not just Jews, but Christians, Muslims etc..people who want to keep on believing that some incredible force will come out of the sky and strike down your enemies. I do not want to be rude but time for all of these Middle Eastern religions to get real, and try chanting for world peace instead!

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kinniku said: Possibly I am the only one. If so, so be it. However, what is this supposed to mean?

What it means is that certain people love to talk about the 5 steps forward from 2005 but conveniently forget about the 7 steps backward that happened in 2007. Yes, the Israeli boots are no long waltzing around Gaza. They left in 2005. But in 2007 Israel started locking up Gaza tight by land, sea, and air, using border stations inside Gaza that they never left, not permitting Gazan fishing boats far enough from shore to fish, blocking imports of food and medicine, etc. Then we had Cast Lead a year ago which was a further 7 steps back and was deemed a humanitarian crisis.

This seems to be a constant theme here with some people. Talk about the enormous negative things, and they start talking about little positive things as if it balances out! 5-7-7 = what? Some people seem to thing the sevens don't count and get the answer of 5!

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Helter_Skelter: And don't forget the nearly $30 billion that Bush gave to Jordan and Egypt across 10 years. Funny how you leave that out.

Not funny at all. What matter is not aid, which can be for food or infrastructre, but Foreign Military Financing (FMF).

Israel is the largest beneficiary of FMF and receives about half of all the funds distributed by the program [1].

What you are saying is like giving one guy 10 dollars dollars and distributing 6 dollars among his enemies and saying you support all equally! Who you trying to kid?

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Helter_Skelter said: Imagine if the Jews barred Muslims from visiting the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. You'd be ranting about racism and the horrible injustice of it. Political hypocrisy is what they call it.

I would call it religious intolerance and injustice either way. But I would not support killing or actions that lead to war either way. It is impossible to avoid hypocrisy you know. All we can do is minimize it, and that I do. I realize that I do have some minor hypocrisy toward Israel, but that is because Israel is the one in control and the chief violator of fairness, by both quanity and quality, in this issue! I leave the major hypocrisies to others, such as stating that Palestinians are in control of their own prison while Israel keeps them locked in!

And now is where someone will seek to exploit my admission of minor hypocrisy while totally glossing over his own far more major hypocrisies! Never have I had honesty so used against me as on this message board. Some here think twisting the truth is some sort of virtue!

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What it means is that certain people love to talk about the 5 steps forward from 2005 but conveniently forget about the 7 steps backward that happened in 2007.

Well, you seem to be forgetting that the five steps forward were taken by Israel and the steps back (two sevens was it? above it is one) were taken by the Palestinians. They should have stuck with the five steps forward Israel gave them. They were better off.

This is my last contribution to this thread. That's all folks...Have a nice day.

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