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Blackwater dumps tarnished brand name

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Xe - well problem solved then. Looking forward to reading lots of angry right-wing posts about wasteful government spending, Iraq boondoggles, and payoffs to political supporters in relation to Blackwater. Or maybe not.

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A rose by any other name is a rose.

A dangerous out of control organisation by any other name is a dangerous out of control organisation.

Maybe the name Xe was chosen so their employees could learn to spell it faster, or maybe they think people will forget such a name much faster when it appears in the press.

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grafton: "A rose by any other name is a rose. A dangerous out of control organisation by any other name is a dangerous out of control organisation."

Bang on, my friend! Hopefully people can see through the ruse and the name is not forgotten (new name, either).

Of course, there are those on here who will say they stand behind Blackwater despite them slaughtering a bunch of innocents (maybe sailwind can come on here and tell us about how he doesn't support the deaths of innocents but supports Blackwater), and the name shouldn't be changed to begin with. Fortunately, even the company recognizes its own guilt.

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A rose by any other name is a rose.

To quote the Simpsons - not if you called them stinkweed or stenchblossom.

In seriousness though, I agree wholly with Grafton. I am also strongly against the use of Mercenaries (which is what they are, the difference being that they have a PR department) whose primary motivation is $$$$, and who are not accountable. Outsourcing something as important as military security is a long term recipe for trouble.

My 2 cents.

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Oh please. Are people still headhunting these guys? After all the heat they've taken, they're not only changing the name of the company, but getting out of the business. Changing their primary business focus entirely. What, you're still going to be calling them an evil organization when they're teaching classes and providing aviation support?

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What, you're still going to be calling them an evil organization when they're teaching classes and providing aviation support?

As the old saying goes, "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear."

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Ah, but you see, what it comes down to is, people wanting to make a living for themselves and their families. Money, if they can make it providing armed security, they will. Since they no longer can, they're looking for other lines of work. Guess they're still evil though. Ooh, fear the evil schoolteachers!

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Ah, but you see, what it comes down to is, people wanting to make a living for themselves and their families.

Nothing wrong with that. But you've also got to be accountable for your performance. And Blackwater security guards in Iraq weren't. This really didn't come to public attention until last September when security forces employed by Blackwater killed 17 and wounded 24 Iraqi civilians at a Baghdad intersection.

Whether they were in the wrong or not was impossible to determine since there was no means to arrive at such a judgment. Among other incidents which preceded it, a drunken Blackwater employee shot and killed a security guard working for the Iraqi VP in 2005. He was hussled out of the country pretty fast, perhaps to another job within the company?

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A few guys make mistakes and you guys call for the entire company to fall. Kinda reminds me of your take on any crimes committed by US forces in okinawa/japan. But then how lenient you can be on others that get the death penalty. I think there's a word for that.

Moderator: Yes, the word is off-topic.

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A few guys make mistakes and you guys call for the entire company to fall.

A few guys privately employed make "mistakes" and it is revealed they cannot be held accountable for their actions. By contrast, US troops are and always have been.

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Blackwater is going into other lines of work because this one dried up after the Iraqis were in a position to stand up:

THE Iraqi Government has told the US embassy in Baghdad that it will not issue a new licence to Blackwater Worldwide, the embassy's main security company.

The company has come under scrutiny for allegedly using excessive force while protecting US diplomats.

The Iraqi Interior Ministry conveyed its decision to US officials in Baghdad on January 23 in one of the boldest moves the Government has made since the implementation on January 1 of a security agreement with the US that sharply curbed American power in Iraq.

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bushlover: "A few guys make mistakes and you guys call for the entire company to fall."

I made a mistake the other day when I pressed the wrong button on the phone and hung up on a customer. Shooting a whole lot of innocent people to death is not exactly as simple as 'making a mistake'; it was a horrible crime. And so, yes, the company must be held accountable and should indeed be closed down for good.

"Kinda reminds me of your take on any crimes committed by US forces in okinawa/japan. But then how lenient you can be on others that get the death penalty. I think there's a word for that."

Not sure what you're really on about here nor whom your addressing, but since it smacks of the general ignorance you post with on here, I'll take a moment to straigten you out again. Let's take my case, I'm against the death penalty, yes. You cannot akin hoping for a company like Blackwater to collapse for slaughtering innocent civilians as being for the death penalty, nor the reverse that defending them and hoping they stay in business is like being against the death penalty. They are not alike at all. More accurately, since I need to spell it out for you (and you won't listen anyway since it's not what you want to hear), if the Blackwater guards were rightly punished for their war crimes I would be against the death penalty for them, too. See?

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I'm trying to get worked up here, but I can't. These guys have been around since the Clinton era. The world has most certainly not gotten any safer since then. Radical, militant Islam sees itself, justifiably so, as ascendent. Private security forces aren't going away. The US, the world's greatest military power, is not capable of training recruits to do the jobs Blackwater does, nor should they have to. But the need is there. The Left will just have to go on shaking their lil fists, and trying to come up with clever (to them...) ways to spin the company's new moniker, "Xe", and thereby bring about "social justice", or whatever ludicrous mission it is they imagine they are carrying out.

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Xe.. oh yeah, that's MUCH less "warcrime-y".

What, you're still going to be calling them an evil organization when they're teaching classes and providing aviation support?

What is Xe going to teach? Is the 'school of the americans' going to outsource torture lessons? "How to shoot up a crowd of people just 'cuz they're there"? Hey, how about "Creating new terrorists by angering the locals, 101"..

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Of course, there are those on here who will say they stand behind Blackwater despite them slaughtering a bunch of innocents (maybe sailwind can come on here and tell us about how he doesn't support the deaths of innocents but supports Blackwater), and the name shouldn't be changed to begin with.

I don't support the deaths of innocents. Could you please stop saying that I do. Second I don't support Blackwater. I do support the concept of innocent until proven guilty that you so blithely throw aside.

How is my defending the concept of innocent until proven guilty, translate into I support the killing of innocents.

This is like the third time you've have pronounced me 'guilty' of that.

I'll ask you again

Show ONE SINGLE POST, ONE SENTENCE or ONE WORD through my entire posting history, thats supports that nonsense.

I'm innocent and you have already pronounced me guilty without one shred of evidence to support your assertion.

The Blackwater guys that are on trail now have been charged. A trail will be held, evidence will be heard and a verdict rendered.

Until then they innocent until proven guilty. I support that concept Smith, seems you have a major problem with someone who does support that concept and posts as such.

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The parent company’s new name is pronounced “zee.”

So...I guess "murder inc." was already copyrighted.

Taka

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Heh, I bet xe.com are pissed. Damned good currency conversion too.

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sailwind: relax, my friend. And anyway, people have given a number of situations in which you justified murder or called it something else. Israel/Gaza is one such example. Okay, so maybe you didn't say, "I support the slaughter of children", but you have outright defended people who have done it. Same thing, different wording.

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Why do you think the company should be disbanded? Honestly. How many other companies are guilty of crimes? How many worse then this. Do you think they should be forced to liquidate as well? How about a company like Nike, or Union Carbide. Theres lots of things wrong in the world. I fail to see how holding those who do wrong accountable, should be expanded to an entire company.

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I knew it was just a branding issue. Who cares about murdered civies?

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And anyway, people have given a number of situations in which you justified murder or called it something else. Israel/Gaza is one such example. Okay, so maybe you didn't say, "I support the slaughter of children", but you have outright defended people who have done it. Same thing, different wording.

You've made a pretty damning accusation on me in a public forum. I have never defended murderers.......ever.

I challenged you to produce one single post that I ever have. You haven't. Now you are saying that I do but hide it under "different wording".

Produce your evidence smith. You brought the accusation on me smith and it's a pretty serious one, and you just expect me to just 'relax'.

I don't think so, it would be the same as if I claimed you were a racist, then produce nothing to back that up with. and then say 'relax smith' you may not have said it directly but you outright defended racists, same word different wording.

I would hope you would be just as incensed at me as I am with you for implying that I defend murderers of innocent children.

You don't agree with my politics and I don't agree with yours but when you level unfounded and baseless serious accusations at me in a public forum without proof....... I'm not going to take that just laying down.

Moderator: That's enough between the two of you. You are to focus your comments on the story, not at each other.

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Xe and pronounce it 'zee', you're still blackwater. One of many no-bid contracts.

They won't be forgotten. < :-)

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They won't be forgotten. < :-)

They don't want to be forgotten. If they're forgotten, they don't get business. Don't get business, don't get money. Don't get money, can't feed your family. Pretty simple. By rebranding though, they obviously saw that the name Blackwater had acquired a pretty severe negative spin. And that doing business with Blackwater wasn't really politically correct. Thus rebranding, makes it easier to get business again.

Almost surprised Halliburton hasn't done this yet, with all the negativism toward them over the last 6 years.

You say the no-bid contract thing like its a talisman. Be prepared very soon for Obama to start awarding "no-bid" contracts of own.

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Molenir at 11:32 AM JST - 14th February

“they're teaching classes and providing aviation support?”

Your not naïve so please don’t treat others here as though we are. What are they going to be teaching classes in, carpentry, car mechanics or how to be a mercenary? What do you imagine “aviation support” might mean in this big bad dangerous world we live in? Advising on the length of airhostesses’ skirts, what pretty colours to paint the aircraft?

They are in the same line of work, they have just re-branded, not only the company name but also the department names within the company. They are very likely to be in exactly the same line of work but now they will out sauce to some “new” company & try & guess who fronted the money for the “new” company? I’m guessing, but you don’t any more than I do. But we do have a company history to give us a clue.

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sailwind: "I don't support the deaths of innocents. Could you please stop saying that I do. Second I don't support Blackwater. I do support the concept of innocent until proven guilty that you so blithely throw aside."

I'm only going to touch on this, since my posts showing you examples keep getting removed, but in the thread where Blackwater Guards were reported to have used grenades, I pointed out to you that one Blackwater employee had come forward and confirmed the accusations against them. I still ask why he would do so if they were not guilty, and why the company jumped quickly to cover the tracks.

"How is my defending the concept of innocent until proven guilty, translate into I support the killing of innocents."

Didn't say that that particular point did mean that you support the killing of innocents, but that others did. I'm sorry, but I still cite your tacit approval of Israel's retaliation and blaming it all on Hamas when civilians were killed as a prime example.

Regardless, as this is a thread about Blackwater, and the mods have asked us to lay off, I will. Keep in mind this whole thing came about with your post towards like it is saying he is 'already a spokesperson for the Iranian government' and the whole idea that he can therefore add 'Death to America' to his resume simply because he is supporting open dialogue. It was that kind of ignorance that made me jump on you and point out the hypocrisy.

With Blackwater, as is the case now, you have openly said again and again that you support waiting for a verdict on the case before judging, but you ignored before the fact that one man came forward and confessed. When I at one point asked the question to you, TooFarGone, and others at the time if you will then condemn them if they are found guilty, I received no answer at all from most people, and I think one of you said, "They will be let off" without answering yes or no.

Regardless, I do apologize for being a bit harsh in my comments, but remember that, as I said above, it came from your comment yesterday against likeitis, and so today I wrote in that comment to get you riled up in part. THAT was low, I admit.

Back to the thread at hand.

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Your not naïve so please don’t treat others here as though we are. What are they going to be teaching classes in, carpentry, car mechanics or how to be a mercenary? What do you imagine “aviation support” might mean in this big bad dangerous world we live in? Advising on the length of airhostesses’ skirts, what pretty colours to paint the aircraft?

Heh, this is true. I suspect they will be teaching classes in everything from infiltration to laser targeting. As far as av support, I really don't know what this is going to entail, but I can imagine it being everything from close air support to simply hauling equipment and supplies wherever they need to go. It really depends on what they're needed for. These people are pretty much all former military who want to keep doing the missions, while actually getting paid for it.

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Name changes should not be allowed. And subsidiaries should bear the name of their parent company. Its hard to keep track of who the bad guys are and this hiding behind new names crap should not be tolerated. You make a rep, you should be made to live with it.

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[ You make a rep, you should be made to live with it.] Yeah like english teachers and other foreigners in Japan.

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"so... I guess "murder inc." was already copyrighted"

Yeah, by the scumbags who were firing on Blackwater employees, who were trying to improve the security situation.

Sarge

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Sarge at 12:44 AM JST - 15th February "so... I guess "murder inc." was already copyrighted" “Yeah, by the scumbags who were firing on Blackwater employees, who were trying to improve the security situation.”

This sounds like a half truth towards being right, but that doesn’t take away the fact that these guys seriously over-reacted in this instance AND others. Frightened men with guns become killers, unless they are well trained not to. We can all point the finger at these guys & say you killed innocent people. That I think would be wrong for anybody without who has any experience of such situations. The ultimate responsibility falls back on the company that put these men in that situation & that company can’t just change it’s name & expect to walk away from all the bad news. Were the shooters guilty, yes of course they were, they pulled the triggers that fired the bullets that killed innocent people. Thankfully for all of us life is never that simple, there are always mitigating circumstances, always. A company that hires out men with guns needs to minimise such circumstances from happening, not try to talk its way out of the situation after the event. Blackwaters values are going to be carried across the name change & it is the cynical idea that a name change will everything alright that leaves so many with a bad taste in the mouth.

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smith

Thank you for your post and you never stop ever stop posting your opinion.....Never

Thank you for understanding that.... And thank you for respecting my opinion as I do yours.....Sir

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It is fascinating to see how important Blackwater is to the identities of certain non-Americans here.

I just hope, for the sake of the international Left - and for my boy taka313 - that the new label evokes the same faux outrage that we have all come to associate with the "progressive " movement.

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Molinir

You say the no-bid contract thing like its a talisman. Be prepared very soon for Obama to start awarding "no-bid" contracts of own.

I like the way you like to type while you're dreaming. Please come up with one reason why Obama would go for a single no-bid contract.

Blackwater or Xe makes no difference. Murderers by any name. < :-)

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I like the way you like to type while you're dreaming. Please come up with one reason why Obama would go for a single no-bid contract.

Hmm, maybe because they're standard operating practice in certain circumstances. Clinton gave no bid contracts, Bush did, and as I'm sure we'll see, Obama will as well.

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Oh, it occurred to me to give a bit better of an idea why no-bid contracts are awarded.

To put it simply, no bid contracts are almost always of short duration. They are used when something is needed to be done quickly, when there is only one company that can complete the contract immediately. What typically happens afterwards, is the standard bidding procedure, where all the companies in the field bid on the contract. Lowest bidder, best bid gets the contract. Then assuming they weren't the original holder of the no-bid contract, take over from the former contractor so that the service being provided is in no way interrupted.

The exact same thing happens frequently in businesses as well. A company needs something done immediately. The people running the company, reach out to someone they know in order to get it done. They go that way for a time, then planning ahead ask for bids from various contractors. My own company did this when we moved into a new facility a few years ago. A local cleaning company was hired sight unseen. 6 months later, after looking at a bunch of other cleaning companies, my company invited several cleaning companies to bid on the contract. The cleaning company we used then changed as the company we had been using, had a slightly higher bid. Thats not the only example I could cite either. As I said, it happens frequently. Just not very often in government.

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Barack Obama is the agent of change. What was, isn't now.

Haliburton has had their contracts for 6 years. Short duration, huh? < :-)

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No, they've had no bid contracts going back a lot further then that. But then, Haliburton only had no-bid contracts in Iraq briefly. For the most part after that, they had to bid on them just like other companies did. However the other companies had to qualify. To demonstrate that they were capable of fulfilling the tasks needed. While I don't know of any current no-bid contracts they still hold, if they do its because they have no competitors in the field capable of meeting all the needs.

Haliburton is a unique company that employs a lot of people, with a wide range of skills. In addition they have a history of subcontracting other companies as needed. To put it another way, they're a damn good company that meets the needs of those who employ them. People who have maligned them, have done so more out of ignorance and hatred of Bush then for any real cause.

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Written X. Pronounced Z.

Y?

Because when people see their aircraft, they can shout, "Xe plane! Xe plane!"

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Whay not just come clean and rebrand themselves "hoods and hoodlums for hire".

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