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Two female suicide bombers kill 38 on Moscow subway

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Terrorist related?

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Better start syncing watches together.

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Whoever did these should run like hell now. Russians.Will.Retaliate.

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Hello!!!!!!!!!!! People were killed. And you're joking?! If your child or you were killed.....????

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Russians.Will.Retaliate.

I was thinking the same thing. And they don't mind too much about taking out a few friendlies in the process. If this was any way Islam related, it was a foolish move. Tehran doesn't need Moscow as an enemy. Now now, not ever.

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I was thinking maybe Chechens or some organizations from North Caucasus region where Russians have trouble with. It would make sense if it is someone they are already fighting instead of some new enemy. Still, you never know..

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one man exclaiming over and over “This is how we live!”

yes, and these are the words we will be hearing from anywhere...moscow, mumbai or manhattan....! btw, no mention of the word Chechnya anywhere?!

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I wouldn't have thought that Iran would be involved. Probably, as Kronos says, more likely to be Chechen forces, possibly pro-Georgian forces at a push. Chechen rebels have previous in this regard, with the seizing of a theatre in Moscow not so long ago and many other guerilla attacks.

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35 killed in Russia,not good news.

Should be Chechen rebels or others,Moscow administration has many anti-government militant rebel woes.

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These two ladies have taken their punishment in advance.

What a waste of life, both theirs and those of the people around them...

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Need to be vigilant all the time for these inhuman people.

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Yes, Russia will no doubt the retaliate. They will retaliate the selfish and stupid way, try to keep their greedy paws on Chechnya for its oil, and get more terrorist attacks in the near future. I feel sorry for these innocent Russians who got killed. Those bombs, like most terrorist bombs, totally blew up the wrong people.

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Tehran doesn't need Moscow as an enemy.

If Moscow retaliates I hope it doesn't do it with the army US-backed Afghani freedom fighters (Al Qaeda) decimated 30 years ago. Plus, why would Iran send suicide bombers to one of their best weapons suppliers?

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One clear fact about how we live. Oil is past peak and in decline. Anywhere with natural resources that the major powers want will need to keep in mind this one fact. No matter how much they blow things up, the powers will remain. The resources outweigh the lost lives to these people.

Whether Chechens or any other nationality, terror will not work. Never has and never will. All it will do is illicit new actions that will be used to justify the next round of terror. It is a viscious, unending cycle of insanity. I feel so sorry for all that died today in Russia. And for those bystanders who will likely die as a result of the forthcoming retaliation.

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tkoind2, saying terror does not work is like saying war does not work. In no way do I want to justify terrorism, but Russia is getting back the terrorism it sowed. And people are getting rich off of Russia's state terrorism. Terrorism works, because people on both sides of issues lack the will to stop the terrorism by the guy next to them, until the other guy's terrorism forces their hand.

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Terror is like torture. To some people it seems like a good idea at the time.

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Definitely Chechen rebels. They've used these "black widows" against Moscow several times before. Now Putin is going to take the gloves off. And my understanding is the Russians don't debate the constitutionality of torture in the Duma. Never a good idea to kick a hornet's nest.

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Bebert61 said: Never a good idea to kick a hornet's nest.

That is the lesson the Russian's have not learned. And what I can tell you about two dead hornets is, they don't give a crap.

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I don't support this at all. Truly, its horrible, no matter which country is suffering from the terrorism. Having said this though, I find it strangely appropriate, that the country that is so pro-Iran, that always supports the Iranian mullahs, should experience terrorism. China and Russia are completely in the pocket of the Islamists, and yet both occasionally suffer from bouts of terrorism. So while its terrible, its also strangely fitting.

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Terrorism is never acceptable. Targeting innocent people to carry out some twisted religious belief is just flat wrong, regardless of which country it happens in. I hope the Russians are very effecient at brining these people to justice.

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wiz at 05:42 AM JST - 30th March

“I hope the Russians are very effecient at brining these people to justice.”

I am sure the Russians will be very efficient in bring people to justice, but will they be the guilty people and will it really be justice?

This act of murder presents us all with a hard call, have Russia’s past actions brought this on the country, but then again is this the way to retaliate? Like so many I am getting so very tired of hearing the phrase “Muslims killed …..”. If they ever had any good reason for taking action it has long since been lost in their murderous actions, if they ever did deserve any degree of either sympathy or understanding that too is being lost in their insane actions. After yet another act of insane mass murder I simply cannot find it in me to care what or how the Russians deal with this. We are building towards a religious war but the pressure that is pushing the world that way is coming from Muslim actions. Daily we hear western leaders trying to make conciliatory remarks to Muslims while equally we are hearing of yet another killing. Somebody isn’t listening and maybe it is because they don’t want to hear, because they believe they are winning a war they have already started while the west is trying to pretend there is no war. Maybe Russia will fight fire with fire and maybe that is wrong, but only to western minds, to many Muslims it will be what they want. Many here will hide behind the moral judgement that killing is wrong, they will argue that a few evil terrorists are not to be used to judge a whole religion, maybe today they are right, but maybe they should look at the trends we have been seeing over the last twenty years, this is growing, it is not decreasing, it is not levelling off. And the day might just come when many will be asking themselves if they were really right to be so complacent.

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Look to the roots of "terror' problems anywhere and you will likely find a population that is controlled and brutalized by a larger and stronger force. Terrorism is wrong but the greater wrong is the circumstances that cause it to surface in the first place.

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The Chechnya situation goes back to the times of Stalin and even further back. It is easy to lump it all in with modern day Islamic terrorism but it's not about that, even though the Russian government wants to portray it that way.

You reap what you sow. You can have sympathy for the victims, and condemn the action, but still know that.

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grafton said: if they ever did deserve any degree of either sympathy or understanding that too is being lost in their insane actions.

I think your sympathy was about the last thing they were fishing for. Given the POLITICAL situation in Chechnya, there is no reason at all to make this a religious thing. That is stretching. What this is about is getting released from the Russian grip, like Georgia and Azerbaijan and other neighbors got. In fact, the Chechnyans fought for independence, won, and then had Russian come take it away again. This is also about revenge. They know darn well your sympathy isn't worth a single bullet in getting Russia to back off.

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@HeyLars

I understand where you are going but there is a huge problem with this - shall we say? - "approach" as far as I can see.

These are terror acts. If you read the comments in the news agencies, rest of the world is also seeing it that way. The result is, these attacks are just giving more ammunition to Russia's hand to tighten their very grip that you are talking about breaking.

If the aim is to get the other nations to put pressure on Russia to resolve the Caucasus issue quicker, you can pretty much forget about it since (a) Other nations will not do it. Russia is a powerful country (b) Russia will not care even if they do.

So I fail to see what these actions will accomplish except getting the screw tightened in the Caucasus region. Russia also has the upper hand in terms of financing such a physical conflict so provoking Russia will not resolve this conflict any time soon.

There is also the people factor. Russian people will be fueled by hate against the attackers. Nations usually have long memories for this type of thing. Look at what happened in Ireland, Israel, etc... Chances are any type of political solution will be rejected by the people as well since they will want to get avenged for their loved ones.

TLDR: I do not see these attacks accomplishing anything.

The most logical approach would be to try to find a political solution by means of negotiation. If you approach with calmness, you can resolve issues. It might take long but it is better than not happening at all.

I will let the experts chime in now :-P

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HeyLars

Given the POLITICAL situation in Chechnya, there is no reason at all to make this a religious thing. That is stretching. What this is about is getting released from the Russian grip, like Georgia and Azerbaijan and other neighbors got. In fact, the Chechnyans fought for independence, won, and then had Russian come take it away again.

Do you know how that happened and why the Second Chechen war started? If would you do then you'd never write the nonsense above. So let me educate you a bit:

Aug 31, 1996 - Khasavyurt Accord (the official end of the first war)

1996-1999 - No law zone, the raids to neighboring regions, abductions, slave trade etc

Aug 7, 1999 - Invasion of Dagestan

Sep, 1999 - Department bombings

Oct, 1999-2009 - the Second Chechen war

Any unbiased eye can see the time sequence and what kind of "independence" Chechens lost and who are to blame with.

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The Chechnya situation goes back to the times of Stalin and even further back. It is easy to lump it all in with modern day Islamic terrorism but it's not about that,

GJ, good call. There is a history textbook that covers this subject. The title is:

To Moscow, Not Mecca: The Soviet Campaign Against Islam in Central Asia, 1917-1941

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Kronos said: If the aim is to get the other nations to put pressure on Russia to resolve the Caucasus issue quicker,

LOL! Who would be so dumb as to sit around and wait for the rest of the world to do something!

I don't think it will get Russia's paws off either. But vengeance is usually not very far sighted. Somebody kicks you and pummels you to the ground your choices are pretty much to either lay there and take it or try to hit back. The rest of the world has been, and will continue to, stand there blinking. I too would probably go for the groin. I am not the lay there and take it type of dude. And if my children died as a result of Russian offensives, I think I might also go for the eyes and never mind futher suffering. You and Russia both will either realize this basic human reaction or the terrorism will continue. Yes, it is terrorism. I don't like it but its not hard to realize why its there.

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sdf_crew_member, sorry but your timeline is less than self explanatory. If you can justify Russian control of a people that don't want Russian control, please explain with clearly, not with an event list.

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And if my children died as a result of Russian offensives, I think I might also go for the eyes and never mind futher suffering.

And if your children where on holiday riding the subway in Moscow?

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HeyLars sorry but your timeline is less than self explanatory. If you can justify Russian control of a people that don't want Russian control, please explain with clearly, not with an event list.

Strange. It's a pretty simple. The gist is Chechens had an independence it had lasted for 3 years long. They used it to create an expansionist Taliban-like rule (btw this word hardly suits) including the local peculiarities like raids on neighboring regions.

Do you really want to know the history of this region or just want to bash "evil Russians"?

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sdf_crew_member said: Do you really want to know the history of this region or just want to bash "evil Russians"?

I will take "bash evil Russian government" for 500, Alex!

If you want to talk about how things are in Chechnya, lets go to the root cause. Lets go back to the first war of independence. It never should have been fought in the first place. Yeltsin would not let Chechnya go and it had nothing to do with predictions of Chechnyan unruliness. Chechnyan unruliness is a direct result of Yeltin not taking the Russian boot off the Chechnyans, a place it never should have been.

I am guessing by your handle that you are all about military force and have no clue, idea, or care for concepts such as independence and self rule. What you like is control and martial law. You believe freedom and independence are dangerous things and what should happen is that people should be controlled from above for their own good. Correct?

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HeyLars at 12:15 PM JST - 30th March

“I think your sympathy was about the last thing they were fishing for. Given the POLITICAL situation in Chechnya, there is no reason at all to make this a religious thing. That is stretching.”

No they will not be getting my sympathy but in what I wrote I was addressing a general attitude to their inane actions, not my personal feelings. Have you not read why these mad women attacked those trains? I don’t think you have or you haven’t taken it in. One of their leaders was recently killed; he wanted to create a “caliph” in the Caucasus, something that not even the locals want, certainly not along the Taliban lines that he had in mind. So this is very much a religious matter even if you don’t want to see it that way. This is not to say that Russia has not and will not use this Muslim terror angle to give them a sense of freedom to act against these people, of course they will, and they have just been given exactly what they want, a Muslim terrorist attack in Moscow. But one wrong does not make the other a right, that level of simplicity is why people think killing innocents leads somewhere.

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techall said: And if your children where on holiday riding the subway in Moscow?

My money is on the idea that these women's children were already dead. And if mine were and I felt it was state sponsored terrorism, you better watch out of it was your state. Yes, I far prefer the actual perpetrators get blown up, but grieving people are not known for their rationality. Until Russia backs off this cycle will continue.

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Ant way you slice it, in any language it comes up being evil Islamic terrorists, and their evil ways.

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So your answer is that the Russians are there as innocent peace keepers?? Your answer is that Russia's heavy aerial bombardment of Chechnya even before the first war of independence was purely in the interest of peace?

Dude, the Chechnyans HATE the Russians, and with good reason. The Russians can come up with all kinds of pretty excuses for bombing the hell out of Chechnya, such as to "establish constitutional order in Chechnya and to preserve the territorial integrity of Russia.", but at best they are an inept bunch of stupid goons with no clue how to keep the peace and at worst they keep putting their boots on Chechnyan necks as they have for hundreds of years for whatever reason, the most recent being oil. And that does not rule out both being true to a degree in individual Russians.

Yes the official story is that Chechnya will be independent one day and you are welcome to believe any official Kremlin press releases you like. I am not buying.

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HeyLars

Ha-ha-ha. I knew it I knew it - "those evil Russians". Finally, what a relief.

So your answer is that the Russians are there as innocent peace keepers?? Your answer is that Russia's heavy aerial bombardment of Chechnya even before the first war of independence was purely in the interest of peace?

When a war begins no innocent side can be. There are always civilian victims, cruelty and bad treatment of POWs. Any war. Do not cause the war...

Secondly, I've already said what the causes of the first war. But you just drive your agenda, not listening. You're not interested in facts you're believe you're bestowed the Truth no matter what I say. That's why sensible talk is over slogans and an emotional diatribe came up.

P.S. Maybe, maybe Chechnya will be independent some day, but not through the way of terror.

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sdf_crew_member said: Ha-ha-ha. I knew it I knew it - "those evil Russians". Finally, what a relief.

And you accuse me of not listening? No dude, I am listening. You accused Chechnya of being expansionist and accussed it of raids etc. But you never said against whom and you provided no links. I looked for the information but found nothing. There is a big difference between listening and believing whatever random thing you say.

When a war begins no innocent side can be.

Then stay out of the war to avoid guilt. Russia has a right to defend her borders, but that does not give Russia the right to invade former satelittes and start cracking heads.

P.S. Maybe, maybe Chechnya will be independent some day, but not through the way of terror.

Maybe? Twice? Yeah, this is another reason why the terror will continue. Chechyna has no reason to trust Russia on anything. Hundreds of years of history proves that.

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Do you want links and cannot find them, don't you? Ok, take it.

http://conrad2001.narod.ru/russian/genocide/genocide.htm

http://zvezda.ru/politics/2006/10/13/genocide_1.htm

These links in Russian, western media isn't too eloquent about the genocide of Russians in Chechnya. In wiki you'll get only a glimpse of atrocities committed against non-Chechen population.

If you'd honestly try to find answers just google it - "геноцид русских в чечне" and compare with "genocide of Russians" to get an impression of nonpartisan "free media".

Maybe? Twice? Yeah, this is another reason why the terror will continue. Chechyna has no reason to trust Russia on anything. Hundreds of years of history proves that.

Yes, maybe. They had their chance and de-facto independence of 1996-1999 and busted it. If Chechens would want to be independent, they'd show the maturity to sustain own rule-governed state, do it peacefully. No way around. And one thing more - speak for yourself. Chechnya didn't give your right to speak for all.

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